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Life creates many in-between moments.
Whether those in-betweens create grief, sorrow, heartache, or pain, also know that joy, refinement, hope, and transformation are just around the corner.
Dinine Sig wants to accompany you in all of these in-between times–because she herself has seen many. The Space In-
Between is your opportunity to connect, refresh, and renew yourself. Dinine hosts conversations that will carry you through all of life’s significant moments–all of which will help you feel empowered, encouraged, and understood.
Remember, there is magic found in the in-betweens.
DinineSig 2-2
Dinine: [00:00:00] Hi friends, I'm Deneen. I'm the host of this show, the Space In Between. I'm a mom, I'm an attorney, I'm an author, and I'm also a widow. We're gonna get into some really important stuff today, and I'm really grateful that you're here and you're gonna be sitting with us on this space in between. Hi everyone.
So we are back at the space in between. And I am so fortunate today we're at the Nexus Center and we are sitting with two women that I am so grateful we were finally able to make the time to sit down. This is a show I've had on my heart for a long time. I'm sitting here today with Leslie Thompson and Leah Gia Quinta, thank you so much for having us and.
Thank you. And so Leslie Thompson is a co-founder and chief investment officer of Spectrum Wealth Management. It is a leading Indianapolis based firm and it manages over 1 billion in assets. She is A-C-P-A-A-C-F-A [00:01:00] charter holder, A-C-D-F-A, and she is a recognized authority and an equity portfolio management.
And financial strategies for women navigating divorce. Leslie has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Kiplinger and USA today, among other publications. She is a passionate advocate for women's financial empowerment and literacy, driving transformative change in her clients' lives. I also know her daughter Jordan, who is a beautiful and intellectual and talented girl, and she lives with her husband Ben in Indianapolis.
Jordan attends the University of Michigan. Leah Jaquinta is the founder of Leah Jaquinta Coaching. She is a divorce transition coach dedicated to empowering women to navigate the challenges of divorce with clarity. And confidence. Leah is a former NFL cheerleader and a licensed physical therapist. She combines strength, support and encouragement to help her clients rebuild and thrive as a mother of four.
[00:02:00] She brings empathy and expertise to guiding women toward brighter futures at times alongside her faithful Black Lab chief, who I would love to meet one day along with your children. So we're here today. I've brought these two women in because if you're going through a divorce or a breakup of maybe a long-term relationship where there was some intertwinement of money or housing or something, some of this I hope will be helpful to you.
I'm going to start with a question to both of you. I'll go with Leslie first and then you, Leah. What are the initial steps that you would recommend for someone who is considering the divorce process?
Leslie: So, um, I focus really purely on, on financial, and I think it's really important that before you make that decision that you have.
All the financial information about your marriage in place. So that's on tax returns, financial statements from a brokerage, if you can get access to 401k. Anything financial, anything that hits your wallet. In addition to that, um, [00:03:00] understanding how much you spend, um, kind of what it takes to, you know, make your life work.
Both in marriage, but most importantly, you know, as a single. So I think it's really imperative that you collect that information. And I've actually worked with a lot of women that didn't have access to any of that information and so they spent a year or two and, and I was, um, at times alongside them trying to piece together, collect that information so that we had clarity as to what the financial situation.
And very helpful to the attorney to have that as well.
Dinine: I remember you sort of telling me in some of our. Other conversations before we sat down to record that you would meet with women who really, truly didn't understand. Their financial situation. So that's sort of like square one, right? Sort of try to gather your info before you take that leap.
Leslie: Oftentimes, you know, I think in, in marriage there's usually one person who's like the financial person and uh, you know, the other person kind of has other duties and you know, even in my own [00:04:00] household, I'm the financial person. You know, it's kind of obvious for that. But I think it's important that, you know, hopefully in good times that you've had.
Uh, communication about, you know, things financial, pay attention. You don't have to be an expert, but you kind of need to know where your stuff is and need to know what you're signing, need to understand your tax returns. But oftentimes I work with women who they don't have access, you know, a little bit.
They're in control relationships, and so it's a little harder to get. And um, but it's really important too, in good times, you know, try to get that. And maybe in bad times it may take some time to actually get it.
Dinine: Do a little bit of, I was gonna say espionage work, but that may not be the right word. Do a little bit of investigation For sure.
Um, and also keep your eyes open. You said even in your own marriage, there's one person I know in my own marriage, I'm a widow now, but my husband was the one who handled all the financial stuff. Leah, um, when you hear this, I know you deal with a lot of women now, do you feel like there's something more you wanna add financially or does something else come to your mind about the [00:05:00] first step that a woman or a man who's considering divorce might want to take?
Leah: What comes to mind? Uh, Amy Poer, I think, has a quote and says something like. Divorce is where you put all of your entire life on a blanket and you just toss it up in the air and see where everything lands. Oh, and that visual and that, um, metaphor, you know, makes me think that a lot of women and men who come to me for divorce coaching come to me.
In that state and in that place where all of my things feel like they were tossed up in the air and they've landed all over the place. And so for me, my job is a little bit of a broader picture of looking at, okay, where are you? Where are your things? And how do we triage, you know, what is the most important to you in this place, in your transition right now?
And yes. In a lot of cases, finances, uh, is at the top of that list. So, you know, if someone's contemplating divorce, you know, what we do is we really sit down and do a little bit of a [00:06:00] triage and we go through all of the categories, all of the systems do you have, and all of the questions. Are directed at what support do you have and what additional support do you need?
And so for some people that's financial support. For others it's emotional, it's community, it's legal support. I am moving houses. I need a real estate agent. I need to figure out how to do that. Um, some people come with their kids. I need support to figure out how I can manage my kids. Some people say my health has taken a beating and I need to put my oxygen mask on first.
I need, um. Port in how I can care for myself so that I can care for the rest of my kids. So anyway, that is often where I see people who come that place. Well, I'd like to jump
Dinine: in for a second because I didn't wanna interrupt, but when you made the analogy about throwing all of your possessions on a blanket and up in the air, I can think of a few times in my life where that felt this exact same, and I've [00:07:00] never been divorced.
So getting a terminal diagnosis for my spouse. That day felt like that, letting the community know because we did keep it to ourselves for a while when the community started knowing that that had happened. You kind of do see what side of the blanket certain people land on. And if you're still invited in New York City, if you're still invited to certain dinner parties, if not financially, things start to change.
So the blanket, as it's coming down, things start to fall apart. So even though I haven't been divorced, it resonates with me that. Amy Poer analogy. It's very interesting and I'm just wondering for other people. And then of course the day my husband died, but because he had a long illness, it wasn't that sort of shock trauma moment I could think about a breakup where it felt like that too.
It's like, which friends are gonna land on which side of the blanket again, which, um, habits, which music, which whatever. So that's a really, I think that's a good [00:08:00] analogy for a lot of different trauma.
Leah: And to take that blanket metaphor to one more level where I see people in that, those very beginning stages of divorce is where everything feels disorienting and, uh, destabilized.
Thinking about that blanket as a cocoon. And how, how can we wrap a support structure around you to give you a sense of stability? And that comes from the supports that are available to us that we forget that are there. Because I would say that women are notorious for doing things ourselves and not asking for help, and recognizing that there are so many resources, and we're gonna get to that in a second.
Yes. That available to us
Dinine: When you hear this. And I know that you're really gonna approach things mostly from a financial angle. When you hear that analogy, what do you think of, if you're thinking in financial terms of that blanket and [00:09:00] everything falling down?
Leslie: Oftentimes what, what I find is that there's pieces, I guess, within that blanket that are missing.
And so for a lot of women that I work with, again, it's um, they don't have access. They really know nothing about their financial life, and so they may have. Everything that they know in the blanket, but it's kind of like, what are they missing? What, um, that's not in that blanket that's bringing that uncertainty to 'em.
But, um, and I do agree that whether you're going through divorce or, uh, you know, you lost your spouse whether suddenly or, or not, um, you know, I think, you know, as women at some point, we're gonna all be managing and being responsible for our financial selves. And so I think. We as women need to be educated with, you know, everything financial.
It's not to say that you have to be this stock picker or need to understand, you know, in detail, but you need to feel comfortable asking questions. And unfortunately, and I've been in this business for so long that I can't remember, but you know, it's not always been a kind, um, business of [00:10:00] finance for women.
And I would say I, I'm. Fairly credentialed at this point in my life. And even for me, I mean, I, I manage over a billion dollars in assets and I personally get disrespected in this industry. And so I feel that women, you know, they, they need that partner. They need someone to hold their hand and I guess be on their side to help navigate.
So when
Dinine: we think of that blanket and we think of financial terms, I'm also wondering if you see, my parents went through a divorce and it wasn't. Pretty when I was younger. Mm-hmm. And there wasn't millions and millions of dollars, but there was money withheld and then there was fights over ine needs an eye exam.
And my dad didn't pay my mom 'cause he was mad at her for something. So then she tells the eye doctor, okay, collect it from him because he still owes me for the dentist. And there's games that go on where the kids are used. I wondered. Does that go on? Still does. Do you see that when the blanket comes down and all of a sudden a woman who was used to unlimited or maybe a high level, but a [00:11:00] limit of resources, all of a sudden the resources are strictly limited or removed or hidden?
Leslie: Yes, certainly. Um. One of the situations that I'm working on now is that they have the decree, everything's finished. You know, the attorney thinks that their job's done and um, there's a lot of work post-divorce, but in this particular situation, the ex-spouse is not paying. The resources are there. They're not paying.
So it is a game. Um, because my client is having to go back to the attorney and I'm keeping track, you know, it's been a couple years now, what's missing, what payments are missing? And it's people not really honoring the decree. So I mean, it's, that's gotta have a toll, like a mental
Dinine: toll on. Yeah, and
Leslie: I think, you know, she, she feels badly because she thinks she's wasting people's time.
Um. She doesn't necessarily have maybe the resources to even track it. And so, you know, I'm kind of in, in the background keeping track, you know, making sure that everything in the decrees honored from, um, making sure new credit cards aren't opened up in her [00:12:00] name, just. To, um, because that, that, that could happen.
So it's constantly monitoring credit reports, but oftentimes, you know, divorces don't have to be awful. I mean, it's just, you know, a, a, a separation depends on the two. It depends upon the two people, the situation. Everything's really unique and so, I mean, it doesn't have to be horrible. On that
Dinine: note, I kind of had a question for Leah, and I wonder how you feel jumping in at this point.
You were an occupational therapist. Or a physical therapist. Physical therapist. Mm-hmm. A physical therapist. And now you're a divorce coach. Mm-hmm. And you're bringing all that light to that arena. And I know that there are some women out there that are so thankful for you, but you have sort of a personal journey that you went on to.
Is there anything you want to talk about within that journey
Leah: that got you there? It's interesting to me because, you know, in looking back through my own lens and then also through the lenses of so many women that I walk hand in hand with, there's such a domino effect of [00:13:00] transitions in your life that start with divorce and finance is one of them.
You know, moving homes is another one. And for me, shifting career and a financial picture was another secondary transition to the transition of divorce itself. And you know, my financial picture changed drastically from a double income family to now being a single mom and figuring out what was left and how I could manage that and continue to move forward with my four kids.
When was there
Dinine: anything that made you want to become. Divorce coach? No. So it just, it just called to
Leah: you and you couldn't It found me. It found, it was like, I can't turn this down. Oh my gosh. I mean, yeah. Include in the other pieces of divorce and transition is stigma and you know, your ego and associating yourself with, with the D word, right?
Yeah. So when. [00:14:00] I was figuring out how I was going to do this single mom thing and, uh, support these kids. For me, the idea of going back to physical therapy didn't feel the same nor fit the same in a single parent household as it did in a double income household. And what I mean to say by that is. I was working in an outpatient orthopedic clinic, which requires my hands to be on patients all day long, and I had been at home with my hands on my kids for 10 years, and so to think about how I was going to juggle both managing patient care.
In a hands-on way and then also be available to my four kids. As a single mom, I couldn't figure that out. And so luckily for me, one of my best friends happens to be a career coach and an a women's entrepreneurial coach, and she sat down with me and said, Hey, let's explore. And, and to Leslie's point, there's so much exploration of what you can't see and what you don't know.
But let's explore some different possibilities of how we can make this next chapter [00:15:00] work for you with juggling work-life balance and juggling your finances. And what we landed on was coaching. And so that I could have the freedom and flexibility to run a business and be able to have more autonomy over my schedule and my time with my kids.
But my idea of coaching was health and wellness with my background in physical therapy. Yeah. I see. And so, so I went ahead and I. Signed up for a coaching certification course. I was super excited about starting my health and wellness coaching business, and while I was in that class working towards that certification, I was getting knocks on my door one week after another by women who found themselves lost and disoriented in the thick of their divorce saying, Hey, can I.
Spare a minute of your time. Can I sit on your couch with you? Can you help? Just give me one next step. Wow. And it was in that space that I, I sat with it, I slept on it. I thought, oh my gosh, this is a nudge. Oh my, I didn't know this. This is a nudge. This is a nudge. And, and what? And I, [00:16:00] oh my gosh. The resistance was so strong and the resistance that I found was my own ego.
I didn't want. The word divorce on my business card. I didn't want the word divorce associated with my name. I wasn't ready for that yet.
Dinine: Wow. Leslie, are you blown away by that? I'm like, I had no idea that,
Leah: yeah,
Dinine: so it, it's a fantastic
Leah: story. Oh my gosh. It found me,
I'll never forget, it was the next day I showed up at my coaching certification program and said, and they were pushing us to establish a niche, you know, as part of our. Coaching business plan, and I said, Hey, colleagues, I have an announcement to make. I'm going to switch my niche and I'm gonna lean in.
I'm gonna commit to, um, a different path, and I am going to start a business. And how many
Dinine: conversations have you and I had, I did not know this.
Leah: Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. No, for me, my, my vice is. Is pride. I work on it every day. And the way through, the way through is humility. And that is something that I help my clients with [00:17:00] too.
I, you know, I know you don't think that you need help. Oh my, but what you don't know is where the empowerment is and leaning in with curiosity and leaning in despite the resistance is the way so.
Dinine: Wow. I don't even know what to say about that, but thank, thank you for explaining that. 'cause I didn't know, so I mean, I feel bad going from that to Leslie now because I'm like, I'm blown away by that.
But Leslie, I was going to ask you what made you want to reach out and. Really take a part in women's empowerment and helping them. Um, you obviously are so successful at what you do, and you've achieved sort of that top level pinnacle success as a financial money manager. Can I say that term? Sure. Yeah.
You, you clearly chose this too. I don't, I don't know if it found you the way it found Leah, but you know, what's your.
Leslie: Not completely. I, you know, it really kinda started out, so I'm a CPA by background. That's how I, I started my, my career. And my, my father actually was a money manager, so I [00:18:00] always kind of had that in the background.
But, um, what I found, um, as a CPA is that we would get tax clients and it was post-divorce, and I would look at. What they had, and it didn't make sense to me at the time. They, I felt like they kind of got the raw end of the deal in terms of what they got and what they got was what they got. You can't really go back unless there's, you know, potentially fraud.
And so, you know, that kind of was in the back of my mind that. I would've done it different. Like if I was there based upon my knowledge at the time, I would've structured things differently. And so kind of over the years I did kind of less and less CPA work and really a, a full-time money manager, wealth advisor.
But I always had a passion for women. One, just because I think that the, the industry, as I said before is, is not very kind to women, whether just women in general, whatever your situation is in terms of hearing you, but as it related. To divorce. I, I also did valuation appraisal work and so really I kind of have [00:19:00] like a lot of skill sets where I could look at a situation.
I can, I think the most important document, if you had to have one document, it's tax returns, so I could get a lot of information off a tax returns, try to at least figure out. Um, it's a little bit of a puzzle for a lot of our clients that have no idea kind of. Where they sit financially until their spouse starts to, you know, disclose, um, via financial affidavit, which may not actually even reflect everything.
And so it was really my knowledge that I had from just various things that I had done professionally and my passion for women that I know that I. Could get a better result for the clients that I'm engaged with. And oftentimes really, attorneys bring me in and I do a fairly decent job of actually finding missing assets and thinking about things in a different way.
And I think I, I think it's also easier for the attorney and I do try to be impartial and fair. I mean, there's like two kind of sides, every story. But yeah, that's my story as, as to how I kind of got into it. You just kind of developed over
Dinine: time. Mm-hmm. It really [00:20:00] was born out of your tax practice
Leslie: initially.
Exactly. The tax and then in combination investments. Um, actually doing, you know, financial work in terms of valuation. Valuation. So it's just really a combination of everything that, you know, I kind of have a resource to look at things. And, um, is it safe to say
Dinine: that women are usually on the short end of the stick?
Leslie: Yes.
Dinine: I was going to ask either one of you, if you've ever had a man that walks in. That is on the short end, and I'm not trying to bash men, but that would be an interesting analysis to do right here on the show. Have either one of you had a man that's walked in that's getting an unfair? I would say it.
You're both thinking right now?
Leslie: No, I mean, I mean certainly I, a situation I didn't end up working, but it was a man that I think he felt he needed to get a divorce because his spouse. There was a spending issue and it's, it got to the point, and it can happen on both sides, but it got to the point where as a couple there, they were gonna be in financial ruin.
So, I mean, it [00:21:00] could be where I've talked to other people, it could be, you know, gambling addiction or just so many things that they felt that, you know, again, men or women that. They needed a divorce so that they could really stabilize financially and move on. And so I, I spoke with a man that I think, you know, very concerned about his spouse and how she was gonna manage if they were no longer married, but I think he felt he needed the divorce for, you know, self-preservation.
So, I mean, it certainly happens on, on both sides.
Leah: I was gonna ask you, Leslie, I. In what I have read. Um, and yeah, with your being the expert, the statistics that I continue to come across are between 30 and 40%, uh, that women often leave divorce with a 30 to 40% financial income loss.
Leslie: Yeah. I, I'm not sure the stats.
I mean, I've, I mean, I, I do think at the end of the day, I mean women, and especially the women I work with, I mean, I think in any couple, unless you're
Dinine: Mackenzie Scott
Leslie: or.
Dinine: Yeah. Or what's [00:22:00] got the other one,
Leslie: but Right.
Dinine: Those two. But
Leslie: you know, it's a partnership when you're married and oftentimes, you know, especially in.
You know, high net worth or ultra high net worth divorce. And that's kind of where I spend a lot of my time. But, um, you know, there's, you know, typically the women staying at home, they're taking care of a family to help elevate the other person's career. I mean, it's so common. And, and because of that, they do have to find a new career potentially, or for certain their life's gonna change.
I mean, it's half the income or maybe even more. So, you know, certainly there's gonna be a change unless. They too, were like an equally working spouse. So, you know, from that perspective, I mean there is that, that rebuild and you know, hopefully there's enough assets there that the woman isn't having to look for a new career.
I tend to work with for whatever reason. I mean it's, and I hate the term gray divorce. I think of gray divorce like in someone's seventies or eighties. I think the, it's really fifties, which I don't really think of that as gray, but oftentimes like the kids are maybe in [00:23:00] college or outta the house. And I didn't know that was pre divorce.
Yeah, it's kinda sad. Okay. Yeah, it's a little sad.
Dinine: Yeah. I mean, just a little note about my parents got divorced and my mom actually did do better than she did when she was married, so it's not just Mackenzie Scott, but it also wasn't a multi-billion dollar divorce, but she did change jobs and became a real estate agent.
And then after that, she became a stockbroker, very late in life and did really, really well for herself. Um, my dad was also one of the men that did not want a divorce, so that was part of the reason for the shenanigans during the divorce. At first he was the one making more money, and that was why I think he tried to withhold, I know my dad's heart and um, it might sound yucky from an outside perspective, but he did not want to have a divorce at all.
He didn't want. To lose his family. So it's just an interesting thing for me now to know that it is mostly women that I think come out on the shorter end of the stick. Have you, Leah ever experienced a man [00:24:00] coming, like in my dad's position at the time where I really didn't want the divorce, and then later on within five years, my mom was in a much.
Much better financial position than my dad who was an accountant.
Leah: The story that comes up for me actually is a story that a friend of mine shared a while back and she, uh, and this wasn't even in Indiana, but she was a physician and initially she also did not want the divorce, but she was the working parent and her spouse at the time was at home.
And, and she was devastated by the divorce and, and actually she happened to be my patient, which there's a story about that for another episode. Okay. Because that connects divorce to injury. Uh, got it to your body keeping score. But what she said to me, I actually called her when I was going through my divorce and what she said to me was my one regret because at that time her kids were then in college and after years and years of her paying the ex-husband [00:25:00] child support.
And it was hard. I think he moved across the street with a new person he was dating right away. And she would see across the street I, oh yeah. And then she would see, you know, where the child support money would go to a new boat or all sorts of things. So, I mean, really, really hard stuff. And at the end of all of that was when we happened to have this conversation and she said to me, she said, you know.
I'll never forget the way I felt when I wrote that very last child support check. It was like this huge weight came off of my shoulders and looking back at over all of these years that I was paying that money, I, I wish I. I had the capacity to let that resentment go during that time because I felt like that resentment with every single check I wrote robbed me of the time that my kids even, you know, in the schedule of co-parenting, were living with me in the [00:26:00] house.
Dinine: Wow. Across the street is not okay. And I think there should be a law against it. Yeah. Uh, honestly, that's just,
Leah: I mean, in some cases it's, it's any divorced child's dream.
Dinine: Yeah. My dad moved down the street, but like three miles down. Mm-hmm. So that he could get us easy on the weekends, but I think across the street it would be.
When you're coming home from school, which house do you even go to? But I do know that a lot of famous celebrities, they get large houses and they share the backyard. Maybe that's better if you have really big like estates and you share the, I don't, I don't know. I Space and boundaries is key. Yeah. I think maybe the extra space gives boundaries.
So Leslie, you kind of hit on what you thought was your most important point, which was taxes. If you're going to leave a marriage, one of the main things you need is to see your tax return. You need to have that financially. What do you think, and I'm going to ask you this too, Leah, um, what do you think is a pitfall of someone that's leaving that if you can catch them now as they're listening, [00:27:00] that they should avoid
Leslie: not soliciting advice?
And so, you know, oftentimes people don't, I. They're concerned, you know, that they don't have the financial resources, you know, especially if it's like the non-working spouse and, and you know, oftentimes they feel like they're not getting enough money during the divorce to kind of do their day-to-day thing.
And so they don't, you know, wanna pay an attorney or the best attorney or, you know, getting the best advice. And I think that great advice and someone kind of really there next to you as you kind go through this process is gonna probably reap greater return. And so. I wouldn't be shortsighted in terms of the fear of spending money because I, I, at least I know with me, I could always find something to, I guess, repay my fee, if you will, because there's usually something that's missing.
You know, attorneys know the law, they're not. Typically financial experts, um, you know, know everything that someone who's a financial person would know. So paid for advice would be one of the things that, that I recommend. [00:28:00] Or don't be afraid. Right. Or don't be afraid. Yeah. And I would say on the tax return, just to kind of clarify that.
Why I say the tax return is there's so much information unless someone's fraudulently not reporting things on a tax return. There's a lot of little hidden nuggets on, on a tax return that I could look at and kind of tie it back to any of the financial affidavit disclosures that your seem to be ex-spouse is, is preparing.
Dinine: Okay? So if you're listening and you're considering, and even if you're not, it's really good advice from someone who really understands finances, pay attention, open up your ears, look around your house. And really heed this advice. Leah, what do you think is a common pitfall you would like? If you could go back and revisit with each of your clients or a friend, what would be the thing that you're like, Hey, don't do this, or, please avoid doing this, playing
Leah: small.
Dinine: Which is almost what Leslie said.
Leah: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Wow. And absolutely, and if you aren't confident in [00:29:00] yourself, to Leslie's point, and if you're not confident in yourself and your strength to find the person to hold you up, to stand up straight, I have had so many client baffled that their marital portfolio.
Is shared. I've seen several women say, oh, well, I mean that's his savings. Or He owns that company so it's not mine. Or that's his and not mine. And even just the mindset coaching and wrapping your head around, these are all, all shared table Yes. Marital assets for, I see that a lot. And then sadly, I've also coached women who have been victims of financial abuse.
Mm-hmm. And that takes, that's a process and that takes a while to undo a lot of that internal messaging and making sure women like that, if that's even something that you suspect is to secure the emotional [00:30:00] support to heal from that. And then also the support structures around you, because these are women who are often gaslit and they're told that over and over and over.
So it's like death by a million cuts. But you know, with that exposure that you. You will not walk away with any more than this amount, or This is mine, this is mine, this is mine, and none of this, you won't be able to achieve it. Like women start to believe those messages from that one person that they're living with all day long.
So again, to Leslie's point, bringing. In outside support and professional help to be able to clarify the lens that you are constantly seeing the world through the eyes of your spouse, you know, especially in those situations like that, is invaluable. Don't play
Dinine: small with this is the most important decision, right?
The first one is who you're gonna marry. The second one is. How you're gonna get divorced, right? So don't play small, bring in the right people to the best of your [00:31:00] ability and don't place. I, I really like that for both of you. Get the best financial advice, get the best emotional advice that you can muster.
And to that end, uh, we are gonna have a lot of resources for you to check out. But I have a fun question I just wanna throw out at the end of this show, 'cause we're gonna wrap this up. Prenuptial agreements. Just a yes or no. One of one of us is happily married, one of us is widowed, one of us is divorced, so we're just gonna go around.
Would you, if you had to get married again, now obviously for you and I Lee, it would be a different guy. You could decide. Leslie, different guy, or the same prenuptial, yes or no.
Leslie: If I was getting remarried today with what I have, like who I am today, I would say yes, but I would say no. If everyone's equal in terms of kind of worth, I would, I would probably, I would, I would say no.
Okay. Um, but I think it just, it comes from like where you are. You know, is it a first marriage? Is it a second marriage? Um, okay. Leah. Or
Dinine: [00:32:00] do you want me to answer first?
Leah: You answer
Dinine: first. I say yes, and I say yes for two reasons. I, as a lawyer, I was adamantly opposed to them and thought, you're setting yourself up for divorce no matter what.
And now I have decided that if I meet the right person that hell yeah, I'll sign it. Because you know what? If we're right, it's never gonna come into play. So bring it. I have stuff I wanna protect. You have stuff you wanna protect. Here's my pen, let's go. That's, that's where I'm at now. So that, that's something that I've changed.
And it may be because I've acquired some, some stuff, a little bit of stuff I don't know. But I'm also of the opinion. Let's bring it. Let's bring it, because I know that, and maybe I shouldn't, with my last relationship going the way it did, maybe I shouldn't be so sure. But the fact is, if I had married him, it would've been good for me to have a prenuptial.
So yes, I am in favor of them, Leah.
Leah: Okay, so another fun fact about me is that. I [00:33:00] was a little Leslie Knope. Um, I, but I grew up with my dad as an attorney. And so, you know, as our punishments, we didn't get spankings, but we got reprimands, um, on other, on another side of a big legal dust. So, um, if there's anything that was ever ingrained in my brain as a young girl growing up, it was, don't you dare sign a single thing before I.
Look it over and contracts, contracts, contracts, and, and please just don't make more work for me. Don't sign something that I'm gonna have to fix later. And so, I mean, this has produced to someone who, uh, thinks twice every time Apple comes up with a new agreement, and I'm like, gosh, should I send this to my dad?
Okay, no, Leah, you can do this thing. So, so the answer to your question is yes, and that's twofold, number one, because, um, I've got my dad's lawyer voice. In my ear at all times. But secondly, to your point about transparency in relationships, oh my gosh, if you find [00:34:00] someone who is unafraid to take on weird, awkward, difficult conversations, what a green flag.
So, you know, I have. Also, you know, shifted. So even, so even with your dad, you would say Yes. You would sign one. Oh, well, oh, he would look over it first. Okay. But I think he would want me to, yeah, I think your dad would, would want, I think he would want to draft it.
Dinine: Yeah. Me and your dad have to talk as lawyers.
Yeah. We have to go over, but yes. Okay. So we're all almost, yes.
Leslie: Leslie's an well, I think second marriage. Yeah. However that second marriage comes, I mean, I would say yes. Okay. But it's just, I think in the beginning, if there's not a lot at. Stake financially, no to, right, I get it. I get that. There's no reason to.
I, I think unless there's a family business inheritance, but then it does bring in another issue, so,
Dinine: okay. So listeners, maybe ask yourself, we touched some heavy stuff today. Maybe ask yourself, would you, if you could go back in time with your current spouse, or if you're out there in the dating world, would you sign a [00:35:00] prenup?
I'd love to hear. Catch me@deninesig.com or on whatever social media that you're catching this show. And, um, we will be doing a follow-up show to this and we'll let you know when it comes out. And I want to thank my guests, Leslie Thompson and Leah g Quinta, for being here with me and sitting with all of us on the space in between.
Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me today. Remember that even in your worst days. There is always something beautiful. You just need to look for it. Until next time.