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The Relaxed Running podcast is a behind the scenes conversation with the best athletes, coaches and professionals in the world of distance running. From training, hydration and nutrition to racing and recovering, we learn from the best in the world.
Relaxed conversations which are packed with actionable takeaways to help you take your running performance up a notch. Save yourself years of guess work and learn from the people who are doing it at the highest level.
tyson (00:00.174)
good collection of them. I saw them on your website before. How many you've done? Like you're no stranger to a podcast.
Alex (00:03.703)
There's so many. Like, yeah, that was also, I was like, there are so many and like, I can talk about stuff, you know, all the time but I also don't want to be a part of just information overload for people. So I did move to twice a month which has been much easier to produce. But yeah, I don't know. My life is just, it's happening and I'm like, well buckle up, here we go.
tyson (00:29.962)
Oh man, all right, I'm recording, should we do it? All right, all right. Hey, I'll say to you, I'm really keen to jump into the conversation. Oh, did I just disappear by any chance? Okay, I don't know what is happening. The good news is, okay, where, why is that happening? The good news is, if you can handle not looking at me, it's actually, I think it's because my WiFi signal is not.
Alex (00:33.339)
Yeah, let's go.
Alex (00:40.339)
Yeah, I was just gonna say your camera just disappeared.
Alex (00:53.111)
Hehehe
tyson (00:57.482)
Super strong, but the cool thing with this platform is it actually records locally. So Even though my face the reason I knew that is because I did a podcast the other day and at the end of it A guy said to me is that hey, by the way, your face hasn't been on here the whole The whole time we've been recording and I was like crap. I hope it I Know so but anyway, so on this platform it records locally so I can for some reason still see my face Do you want to go? I don't know how to fix it. It's gonna still be a video
Alex (01:02.686)
Right.
Alex (01:12.942)
Which is just what you love to hear, right?
Alex (01:21.719)
Okay, good.
tyson (01:25.498)
So just don't get too relaxed and start picking your nose thinking that I'm not. Ah, ah, ah
Alex (01:31.174)
I won't. No, no, I can see my face, so. Hide that.
tyson (01:51.554)
The strength conversation has been one of my biggest interests, I mean it was fuelled by you originally and then I've gone down the rabbit hole and spoken to so many people and as a result, I'm not necessarily training specifically to be a great runner anymore, though the audience is. But the thing that I'm so fascinated by and so constantly baffled by is how I can be so strong in one particular area, namely like going to the gym, that's been my most consistent
practice for probably the longest time. But since we last spoke, I spoke to a guy who's a regular guest on here, he's been on three or four times, Dr. John Quinn is an Australian exercise physiologist. And he said, mate, one thing I would encourage you to do with your week is maybe opt out of one of the sessions in the gym and swap it for a 60 minute Pilates session. And so I did, and I am mind blown.
Alex (02:41.661)
Mmm.
tyson (02:46.322)
at how weak I am in a 60 minute Pilates session. I can't remember her name. It's a little Australian chick. She's tiny. And I watched the exercises she does. She looks so ripped. She looks so fit. She's obviously been doing it for a while. And I'll get 10 minutes into the session and she'll go, oh, this will be starting to burn. And I go, no, I've been burning for nine minutes. What's going on? Why is there such a massive difference? I guess it's probably the fact that just the way you're using your body is so different. But...
Alex (02:49.4)
Hahahaha
Alex (03:06.005)
This entire time, yeah.
tyson (03:16.07)
Is there a right way for a distance runner to train because the benefits that I feel from both styles of session are unbelievable.
Alex (03:24.667)
Yeah, I love Pilates first of all, and I've had this same experience where they're like, and that was a warmup and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm dead. Like, it's so hard. And one awesome thing about Pilates and why I think it's one of those modalities that is so challenging is because it's not just focusing on a single muscle group, but how everything ties together. Right? So I'm thinking of like,
tyson (03:32.484)
I'm sorry.
Alex (03:52.443)
there's an exercise where you're laying on your back and you lift your head, neck and shoulders, and you're pumping your hands and your legs are out straight. Like every single muscle from core muscles to hip stabilizers to even your neck flexors and then breathing on top of that, they all have to be working together for you to execute that movement. And I think sometimes in the gym, we can get into a very like, I mean, even the machines are built this way, right? Like this machine works your quads and this machine works your calves. And then you train in that way.
tyson (04:17.986)
Yeah.
Alex (04:21.779)
And then you go out to go running or even just like pick up your kid and your body has no idea how to coordinate that strength together. Strength is really a skill as much as anything else. And I think that's the part that we're missing in a lot of our strength training is that it's not just the act of, you know, increasing the strength of a specific muscle, but how does that fit together with the whole picture functionally for what you want to do?
tyson (04:51.278)
Sure, that makes so much sense. I had a feeling you might say something like that. The functional fitness is one that I'm so fascinated with specific reference to what you do. Because I know how much of a fan of the kettlebells you are. And I had a little bit of a read on the website today and that seems to be one of the key themes that came up. And I remember we spoke about that briefly in our conversation that we had last time. But in reference to actually training muscles in a functional style way, would you say that kettlebells are the most effective ways to do something like that?
Alex (05:19.635)
Yeah, I love kettlebells because they're so versatile. So I have a home gym. It's my garage. When I work out there, I call it the garage party. So I don't have a ton of room. I don't have, you know, you go into a gym, they have every single weight and you know, like I don't have space for that. So what I love about kettlebells is you can use them for a bunch of different things. Even in the way you hold it could be different. So if you, you know, imagining the shape of the kettlebell, it's like around.
tyson (05:28.275)
Hehe
Alex (05:49.547)
weight with a handle. So if I hold it from the handle and hang it like a suitcase, right, that's one way to carry it. If I'm pressing overhead, I can just press overhead or I can try to balance the main ball of the kettlebell over the handle. And then that becomes a stability exercise. You can do rotational things with it. You just like the ways in which you can hold it, allow you to do many, many different exercises.
So especially from like a home gym perspective or also functional, right? I don't need to do a bicep curl and then, you know, a tricep extension. I wanna do something that integrates upper body strength into core, into my feet, all in one movement. And you can do that with something like a kettlebell. That being said, you can also use dumbbells in a similar way, but like, you know, in my garage I have a 30 pound kettlebell.
tyson (06:36.597)
Yeah.
Alex (06:46.867)
and then a 35 pound dumbbell. I don't know what it is in kilograms, but like maybe 14, I don't know. I'm five one, I have tiny hands. I can't hold the size of the 35 pound dumbbell in the way that I can grip a kettlebell. So then I'm able to work more on grip strength in a bunch of different scenarios, whereas you're even kind of limited with a dumbbell.
tyson (07:11.154)
Yeah, that's so interesting. So the one word you just sort of walked over there, which I'm really interested to pick your brain about, which I hear coming up more and more recently is this idea of stability. Growing up, I never heard about this idea in the gym, like the idea of going to the gym. And I think maybe it's the Arnie classic approach to muscle building. Like you wanna do your chest and you do your tries and you do your back and you do your bicep. And it makes sense in a sense of like it's easy way to target every muscle specifically.
Alex (07:22.027)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (07:32.055)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (07:41.008)
instead just because you're targeting every muscle specifically doesn't mean that that's got any positive translation into how it converts into just being able to move around your day more effectively or being able to perform at a higher level with respect to this podcast as a distance runner. But the stability one's one that I've started to pay a little more attention to recently because I'd had a couple of little problems with calf strains and.
Alex (08:04.948)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (08:05.63)
I'd done a whole heap of rehab and a little bit of strength focus there, but one of the exercises that I'd been doing was on like, I don't know what they're called. It's like a balance ball, it's like a half ball, it's got a platform on top, and you stand there, and I'm kind of just going down, touching my toes, coming back up, and it's a little bit of stability, but I can also feel like the sole-iest muscle on the inside of my calves being strengthened a lot as I do it, and that one's been.
Alex (08:16.395)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
tyson (08:31.19)
beneficial for me, because the amount of times that I've rolled my right ankle, it's become so weak that the joints around the outside of the right ankle are just disgraceful at the moment. I hadn't done a whole heap of rehab. So it's kind of a two birds one stone kind of exercise. But can I throw that to you? Can you speak to this idea of stability a little bit more? Because it's such a foreign concept to so many athletes out there.
Alex (08:34.614)
Oh
Alex (08:40.022)
Yeah.
Alex (08:53.379)
Yeah. Well, one thing that comes to mind too, as you're talking, you know, we're talking about stability and core strength and all of these things. Even as somebody who trains, I like to think in a very functional way. I'm working with a physical therapist right now also for some foot pain and she had me do some, you know, baseline exercises and my homework is literally core exercises, like basic, basic.
Pilates types of things and she's like I swear it's gonna help with your foot. I'm like, no, I believe you and When you're moving with intention, even though I can deadlift, you know a lot of weight I can move a lot of weight around in the gym quite easily having to balance on a stability ball kind of like you're talking about and Lifting one leg up without losing the position of my lower back is so hard and so even when you are strong, even when your strength training, it's
tyson (09:41.102)
Yeah.
Alex (09:45.759)
It's kind of like coming back to basics to make sure that all the parts are doing what we want them to do because your brain is so smart. It's gonna get you from point A to point B no matter what. It isn't always the straightest line. It isn't always the most efficient line, but your ability to move will always be present. And so sometimes we just develop poor habits, right? Or poor mechanics that are a...
tyson (10:09.439)
Hmm.
Alex (10:11.935)
direct response to, you know, how we're sitting all day or how we're standing all day or whatever that is. So when you approach strength training with this more functional, and I'm thinking about stability, so I'm making sure that core strength is always happening, it just allows you to kind of clean up movement that may be affected by how you are.
like existing in the world, right? Like right now we're on computers and technology. I'm not giving up my computer. I'm not giving up my phone. Like it's just not happening. So if I can train in a way that helps to offset some of that, then I absolutely will. And then the other part of your question, like yes to like Arnold Schwarzenegger type of training. What was that movie he made was like pumping iron. Is that what it was called? I mean, okay, so.
tyson (10:37.751)
Yeah.
tyson (10:49.269)
Yeah.
tyson (10:58.074)
Yes, it was pumping on.
Alex (11:01.791)
My diploma from university is signed by Arnold Schwarzenegger. So I have a direct connection to Arnold, who was governor of California at the time. Um, but yes, people train like that. And I know for myself also, when I was a member at like a CrossFit type of gym, they had it programmed across the five days, right? So, you know, Monday's upper body and Tuesday's lower body. And then we're going to do core and then we're going to do metcons and all of that. I didn't, I still don't like, I don't have that much time to be in the gym.
tyson (11:06.318)
Hahaha!
Alex (11:29.951)
I'm running a business, I'm working for client. Like I got other stuff to do. And so I don't also need personally to train like a high level athlete because I'm not a high level athlete, right? Now for your elite runners, yeah, that makes sense. That is their job. So five days a week, you know, being more strategic about it, like that might make sense. But for those of us who are just, you know, wanting to exist in life, feeling a little bit stronger so that you're not feeling like you're being held back.
tyson (11:34.999)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (11:58.367)
by your capacity or your strength, doing a workout that is strength focused, but is more functional. So like I'm checking more boxes at the same time, right? So I'm thinking of super simple standing core strength that you can do is literally balancing on one foot, bring one knee up and then press a weight overhead. It seems so simple, right? But now I'm working on lower body balance and foot strength and core strength.
and stability, trying not to fall over because I only have one leg on the ground rather than two. So instead of having to do six different exercises to achieve that same goal, I can do it in one. And that to me is that time-saving factor is really what is most attractive about more functional type training.
tyson (12:44.011)
Yeah.
tyson (12:47.35)
I think that's part, I reckon the description that you just gave then is part of what I've found so beneficial and surprising about the once a week Pilates session that I've been doing, because there's some movements, as you say, you look at it and you go, it's a very basic movement. And the, I wish I could think of this girl's name, I'll figure it out and I'll put it in the description of this episode, because they're really good classes, but she will take you through a number of exercises, or a number of movements, and then explain to you how to coordinate it and where to tense and what your pelvic floor should be doing.
and whatever everything else you'd be doing. And then just to put salt in the wound, she'll also remind you that you also have to breathe and you can't forget that part. And I just sit there going, oh my gosh, like it's unbelievable how many different elements that this particular exercise is training. But one thing that you mentioned was about the bad habits that so many of us develop and that we, as a result, either because we're unaware of the fact that we've got these bad habits.
Alex (13:19.648)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (13:24.925)
Yeah.
tyson (13:44.462)
or because we've got them and we're just carrying through our life and not functional and not feeling fit, strong, healthy, whatever it is that we're training for. Can you talk to this idea of bad habits a little more? Because I know you mentioned the idea of sitting down all day, being on the computers, perhaps they affect your posture. In fact, I know fairly certainly based on my own experience and people that I've spoken to that they do, but are there anything that you'd put in the same category as just the way we hold our body throughout the day, sitting down?
that's equally as bad for our functional movement.
Alex (14:17.587)
Yeah, well, first of all, gravity is always working on your body, right? So when I'm sitting and I'm staring at a computer in front of me or a book or a device, whatever, it's also, you know, a human tendency to want to lean into and connect to the thing that you are looking at, even if that thing is just a computer screen. So a lot of this is just like the facts of life that gravity is always acting upon us,
tyson (14:20.53)
Yeah.
Alex (14:44.115)
you know, human psychology, I'm gonna lean into what I'm doing. So just to say like it's not your fault, first of all. And I mean, honestly, too, like your body was designed to move full stop. And our lives are designed to not have us move, right? Standing or even sitting at a desk for however many hours a day, like is not, I'm saying it's not that it's not normal, but like your DNA wasn't made for that.
tyson (14:49.838)
Mm.
Alex (15:14.271)
there are certain parts of, I'm just thinking of, how the blood gets back up to your heart from your lower legs, a lot of that relies on muscular contraction. And so I'm sitting all day and that's not happening. So when I say like your body was designed to move, like literally down to a physiological level from moving fluid through your body from even some cells and how they communicate, like it was designed to move. So.
There's that, just how we hold our body throughout the day. And then I'm thinking even of, you know, like starting a car, right? You start your car with the same hand every time, cause either it's a button or a key and it's on the same side. So there's a lot of things that happen in our life that are very one-sided from something like that to opening a door, to just how you move around. And then if we're thinking of injuries,
I know you mentioned you sprained your ankle a bunch of times, same, same. That's the foot that I'm having issues with. That ankle has gone into bad directions multiple times. But that's the thing too about injuries and pain. It's not always this one major thing happened and then instant pain. Sometimes it's the slow buildup and it's just like what's the straw that broke the camel's back? So for example, for me,
tyson (16:09.406)
Hehehehe
tyson (16:15.562)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (16:33.451)
Yeah.
Alex (16:35.887)
my feet were fine. Yeah, I have an instable ankle, but it is what it is. And I have always been working on strengthening it. But then I also had some back pain that I was managing. I was rolling. It was feeling okay. It wasn't stopping me from doing anything. And then I got a cut on the top of my foot, which actually I finished reading this book. I don't know if it's big in Australia. It's called Fourth Wing. I'm sure some of your female listeners will know what I'm talking about.
And I finished the book and it was just like, oh my God. And it was just like storming around my house. Like, I cannot believe that she ended that way. My husband has no idea what I'm talking about. So I got all this energy I got to get out, you know? And I walked into a fan and like cut open the top of my foot and it was like not a deep wound at all. It was literally just like a flesh wound. But then that became scar tissue. And then I had a bandaid on it. And then I couldn't wear the, you know, certain kind of shoes. Like there were all of these other things that happened after that because of the
tyson (17:09.275)
Yeah
tyson (17:12.854)
Hahaha
Alex (17:35.243)
freaking book, I was looking at my phone like the fourth wing scar man, that I feel like kind of just accelerated this, you know, back foot hip connection. So it was, and when I say like, you know, your body can get you from point A to point B very easily, like it will do it no matter what. Sometimes it's just too much. And then we're like, wow, this hurts. Okay. So this also, I'm bringing this up because body maintenance is something to always be thinking about.
tyson (17:39.182)
Ha ha ha!
Alex (18:04.931)
And the body maintenance is what helps to offset the technology and how you're standing and how you're moving and how you're living. Like we don't just do this functional type training or stability work or even mobility work, right? And doing, you know, corrective exercise or, you know, foam rolling or using therapy balls or anything like that. You don't just do it when you hurt, you do it proactively so that...
You don't get to a point where you're like, oh wow, now I'm out of training for two months because I have this injury I have to rehab when I could have just been chipping away at it a little bit each time by spending some time doing more functional stability mobility type of work.
tyson (18:45.458)
Yeah, man, I've got a story. It's so similar. It's not a fourth wing scar, I'm proud to admit, by the sound of it, by the sound of it. Like your husband, I also don't know what it is that you're talking about, but we're gonna do a Google search after this to catch myself up. But it sounds like something my wife would be into. One of the things...
Alex (18:49.681)
Yeah.
Alex (18:53.779)
It was so good.
Alex (19:01.056)
Mm-hmm, it's worth it.
Alex (19:05.643)
She's probably already read it too.
tyson (19:07.782)
She probably has. I'm so tempted to go down the rabbit hole to find out what it was, but we've only got limited time on this podcast and the distance runners would be so angry if we dedicated it to fourth wing. But one thing that I made a stupid mistake, fairly similar to your fourth wing scar, perhaps even worse if I'm completely honest. So how did it happen? I'd trained, I'd just started training for a marathon. I'd been about six weeks into marathon training. I got home from a particular run.
and I'd had like a little plantar fasciitis pain or a little bit of pain through my heel and I was like, I know this, I'll just get some ice on it. And so I got a tea towel, I put the ice pack inside it, put it on my foot, couldn't feel anything, so I'm like, man, I'll just put it on my foot for 10 minutes cold, I know it's a dumb move, but I'll just do it. Anyway, took the tea towel off, put the ice on my foot, left it there, and then my foot obviously got numb and I was like, I could handle this forever. Took the ice pack off, my foot, like the base of my foot was like crystallized, it was like frozen skin.
Alex (20:03.874)
Oh.
tyson (20:04.162)
and I was thinking this is really bad, that's gross. Anyway, it turned out that the planter was okay, but I blistered the base of my heel so much with the ice burn that I couldn't run. So I thought what I'll do rather than not running, I'll just go out and I'll run with bare feet so my shoes aren't rubbing on the actual blister.
But the way that I was carrying my body, it was so obvious, I could feel the tension through my calves as I was running. The way that I was holding myself was so dumb that about five minutes into that run, I strained the calf on my opposite leg. And I was so, I mean, first of all, I was so frustrated. But I tell you that story just to highlight essentially what you've said. It's amazing how much even a slight imbalance can have such a negative effect.
Alex (20:35.227)
Mm-hmm. Mmm.
tyson (20:49.902)
on a completely different part of your body. It was literally my right heel that was sore because of how I was carrying myself. It was my left calf that turned out to be the main injury. And I mean, there must be so many little habits or little ways that we hold ourselves that is putting direct pressure on other parts of our body that we're just so unaware of. So this idea of just developing some form of awareness is I guess a real crucial factor, but.
Alex (20:59.851)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (21:16.458)
For a person who's developed a habit and who's got certain set routines that would have no idea that the pain that they have is due to some other part of their body, where do you even start with that assessment?
Alex (21:27.079)
Yeah, always with core. That's why your Pilates is so good. Because I think of like core strength as like the center of like a wheel, right? So if I don't have the ability to maintain a good position of how my rib cage and my pelvis are stacked on top of one another, then that's not happening when I'm sitting, when I'm running, when I'm moving about my day. So I would start with learning how to
tyson (21:29.61)
Seriously.
Alex (21:56.703)
work there. That being said, like I mentioned for myself as well, like I'm going back there. So anytime I need to refresh, like that's just a part of my regular routine because it's so important. And because that stuff, it's not that it slides. It's like your brain is thinking of like 5 trillion things a minute, you know, and it's, there's no time to be like, okay, well that hurts.
tyson (22:17.442)
here.
Alex (22:21.307)
moving on, we're not going to do that. Like you're not, your brain's not going to go back and reevaluate, Oh, but could I do this movement in a more efficient way that doesn't hurt unless you are intentionally doing it, you know? Um, but as far as like the pyramid of where to start and what to work on, um, definitely core strength in neutral, meaning that your head, your shoulders, your ribs and your hips are all in alignment with one another.
tyson (22:33.102)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (22:47.139)
Easiest way to do that would be to lean up against a wall or even better laying on the floor like Pilates, which is why it's so hard, but it's also so beneficial.
tyson (22:57.318)
Yeah, so Pilates would be like if you had to select one of the exercises to give to a person to develop their core, would you point them towards a Pilates style session or is there a better style core workout? Because obviously every now and then I'll do a yoga session, I'll realise that I'm getting a nice little workout, especially if it's a power yoga session. But I'm not sure anything burns that part of my body as consistently as what the...
Pilates classes do, but from time to time, like you'll be in the gym and you'll hear people speak about make sure you're working on your core and you'll just do 10 minutes worth of ab exercises, which obviously if you've got like, my wife is so frustrating because she'll do seven sit ups and come out with a six pack. I've been doing sit ups and core for 15 years and I've still got nothing to show for it. So it's,
Alex (23:31.477)
Yeah.
Alex (23:38.055)
I'm sorry.
Alex (23:43.723)
Genetic, don't worry.
tyson (23:45.306)
Okay, I was hoping you would say that. That's both comforting and frustrating because I've been trying to catch her for the last 12 years. I was just like, the only time I could flex at all was when she was pregnant with our two kids. I was like, show us your abs now. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So, sorry, that was a long winded question, but essentially I'm trying to say, where do you point someone to start developing that core session? A lot of athletes on here are relatively new to the sport as well. So,
Alex (23:50.537)
Yeah.
Alex (23:59.331)
How rude, how rude.
tyson (24:14.642)
In terms of brand new athletes who might not have done a whole heap of work before, have you got any recommendations to get the ball rolling?
Alex (24:21.923)
Yes, it's actually, there's a video on my YouTube channel. So it's AE Wellness on YouTube called how to find neutral spine. And this is like 10 years ago version of me. So enjoy that. And you lay on the floor. Okay, so again, that gets your head, your ribs, your hips all in alignment and work on engaging through your abdominals. So that's like another thing about core strength. And actually how I got into this is because a physical therapist told me you need to start working on core strength.
tyson (24:34.882)
Hahaha.
Alex (24:52.499)
Okay, what does that mean? Right? Where? What do I start with? Like what exercise do I do? Like all of those things. And in yoga and oftentimes in, you know, group exercise classes that you would take at the gym or even things you would come across on YouTube, core, you know, engaging your core is often taught as pull your belly button towards your spine. But you have core muscles that are running in all directions.
tyson (24:52.939)
Mhm.
Alex (25:15.411)
Right. We have the six pack abs running down the front. You have obliques at an angle, both internal and external. They're going opposite to one another. You have the transverse abdominis, which is like your Cumberbund, like a waist belt, if you will. But then there's all the muscles in the back and the pelvic floor and the diaphragm. Like there's a bunch of stuff happening. So if I just pull my belly button towards my spine, that's only like one piece of it. I'd rather get the whole system engaged.
tyson (25:38.03)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (25:41.575)
So I like to think of that as if I were gonna come poke you in the belly button like the Pillsbury Doughboy, and then you brace yourself for that, that's the core activation we're looking for. So in this exercise, how to find neutral spine, you're laying on your back, you engage through your abdominals, and even the first step is can you engage through your abdominals without moving through your lower back? And I would say probably like 90% of the clients that I work with and we start there can't even do that. And so that's the first step is can you
tyson (25:46.37)
Hehehe
tyson (25:51.001)
Ah.
Alex (26:10.795)
turn on your abs without changing the position of your low back while laying on the floor. And then, all right, can you turn on your abs and breathe, right, so that you're creating stability and breathing because that's what you're gonna need to move up and walk around and run, like do all those things. And then we just make it more challenging by lifting the legs, right? So maybe that's abs are on, you're neutral, you're breathing and you're sliding a heel in and out. Maybe you're picking a leg up.
tyson (26:24.829)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Alex (26:38.375)
Um, maybe you're keeping both legs up and then tapping a foot down. That would be like the hardest variation, but on that video, how to find neutral spine on my YouTube channel, AEWandless, it'll walk you through all those different options, but that's where I would start for just really even checking in with abs, like how is my core strength? Can I breathe here? Does it feel super, super foreign? Cause then the next challenge is, all right, cool. You can do it laying down on the floor where you don't have gravity.
working against you, but what about standing up? Because now standing up, I have to deal with how my brain has mapped all my movements. And that's where leaning up against a wall and trying to do the same thing of, you know, getting yourself stacked and then breathing and then turning on your abs. And for most of us, I mean, again, every time I work with a client on this, I demonstrate and do it at the same time. I'm like, oh, my ribs are like in a different county because they're so far forward and that feels like normal because that's where I've been hanging out most.
win the most efficient way to be stacked so that all of my abdominal muscles can work together at the same time is definitely not where I've been hanging out. So on the ground and then try to do that standing up using a wall or doorway as reference.
tyson (27:46.256)
Yeah.
tyson (27:52.242)
I reckon that's the best description of how to tense your core that I've heard. Like I poked myself in the belly button just to feel what it was that you're talking about. And immediately I'm like, oh, that's a great description. You feel everything just, honestly, this could be the answer to a six pack for me. Just a few more pokes in the belly button. That's a really good description. And so what the benefit of that, having that all activated is obviously just developing that strength because it's almost like a suspension, I guess, to.
Alex (27:57.864)
Hmm?
Alex (28:01.283)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (28:08.833)
Yeah.
tyson (28:20.362)
between the legs and the upper body is that core. Like, because I hear people speak about the benefits of a strong core and that's just essentially so every other part of your body can function at its highest possible rate. Cause if you're slouched or if you're out of whack there, is that the problem?
Alex (28:20.567)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (28:37.191)
Yeah. I mean, also breathing, right? If you can't breathe, that's obviously a big problem. And again, I'm thinking for running as well. Also, like if your, you know, ribs are always forward and you're in more of like, um, that like interior tilt type of position, there's compression that's happening in the low back. So every time your feet hit the ground, especially like during a run, that just added force into the lower back and the spine that isn't necessarily going to be helpful long-term.
tyson (28:39.671)
Yeah.
Alex (29:07.359)
Um, so yeah, core strength in neutral means I'm set up to be the most efficient position for breathing, um, for stabilizing my lower back, stabilizing the rest of my body. Um, and then also like if there's too much movement happening anywhere, your body goes, no problem. I'll just make more tension that I got. I got this. It's fine. Right. And how many people have tight upper traps, right? Tight hip flexors.
tyson (29:29.971)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (29:36.679)
um, really tight hips when the place to start and then, you know, you, oh, well, let me roll out my hip flexors every day and let me make sure I stretch my hip flexors when really getting your core organized. So you're in a better position would probably, and I say probably as like, no, it absolutely would help resolve the issue more than, you know, that fancy schmancy machine gun and the, or not machine, excuse me, massage gun and stretching your hip flexors three times a day, you know,
tyson (29:54.183)
Yeah.
tyson (30:01.642)
Yeah.
Yeah, like a true American talking about machine guns every episode. No, that's it's so true. I am I wanted to say something in reference to the tension as well, because whenever I work with an athlete doing technique analysis, one of the things I'm often trying to point out to athletes who are relatively new is
Alex (30:07.887)
I know, I'm sorry, it just came out.
tyson (30:24.922)
often when we're fatigued, that tension that we carry, or there's a certain level of tension that athletes develop, you said through the traps, a lot of the time you see through the shoulder blades as well, and you can see when an athlete's tired or trying to run fast, their whole arm swing completely changes, and there's almost like an arch through the spine, which you'll often see. And I reckon, I mean, you can,
Alex (30:37.28)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (30:45.03)
you know, but for everyone listening, you can feel it just when you arch your back standing there and try and take a deep breath, how limited your ability to breathe is in that particular movement. And it's comforting to hear you speak about the awareness factor, because often I feel as though the most simple tip that I offer that seems to consistently have the best result is just drawing awareness to where that tension is actually.
Alex (30:50.327)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (31:09.386)
being held and how it's limiting the stride. That's kind of my main focus is how it's impacting just the overall efficiency of the movement. But you often forget, even when you drill down further, how practical, how helpful just a simple strength routine is gonna be to help, I guess, delay the onset of that tension. Is that how you sort of explain it?
Alex (31:12.286)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (31:29.459)
Yeah, yeah, I know. I was just saying, this is exactly why having a functional type of training to be doing that body maintenance beyond just your strength training and your running and all of that is so important because you're constantly working on those with great intention, the things that are going to help you when you are tired or you're at the end of a training session or you're at the end of your work day or whatever and you're not thinking about things. That's when we get into trouble and we do something stupid like walk into a fan.
or, you know, like pick something up, kind of crooked or whatever. And so you're basically just banking away as much almost like insurance that weird movement or that less than stellar movement won't be as detrimental to your overall health and wellbeing because you've saved up enough good movements sort of, you know, to help kind of keep it at bay.
tyson (31:57.674)
Yeah.
tyson (32:19.846)
Yeah, one of the things that I often find a little bit tricky is explaining the how what you're doing on like a gym or a workout floor correlates into how to hold yourself when you're actually running that obviously some of that strength that you develop is going to transition naturally like you're naturally going to get stronger so you're going to feel better or at least hold your technique more effectively when you get out there and run but are there any
sort of cues or any tips that you could offer someone who might have an awareness when they're relatively comfortable, but when they're trying to implement harder or faster running, those basic things just go out the window. Like, is there anything that you can draw attention to that you find beneficial with the people that you work with?
Alex (33:10.503)
Yeah, definitely the core stuff that we talked about, that neutral spine exercise, or even just checking in a doorway. So again, leaning up into a doorway so that your head, your ribs, and your hips are against the doorway. And then you can go back and forth between that ribs forward, lower back arched, and then trying to press your low back into the wall, just so you have both ends of that spectrum. And then honestly, it's just like awareness, right?
tyson (33:17.779)
Yeah. Yep.
tyson (33:22.623)
Show.
tyson (33:36.578)
Yeah.
Alex (33:37.991)
when I'm standing here at my desk and I'm like, gosh, my lower back or my hips are killing me. I'm like, oh, cause I'm totally hanging out on my low back. Let me unlock my knees and get myself organized. And so every time I can check in and make that little micro adjustment, it matters. And I think also that's where people kind of get like, well, I need like that one thing that's gonna fix everything. It's like, no, it's not that. It's the 500 times each day that you catch yourself, you know, slouching or doing whatever, and you just make that little adjustment.
That's going to go a huge way into helping your brain better sense where you are in space so that your set point, your home base is going to be that more aligned position rather than where you were before. The other thing I'm thinking about is that's also very beneficial and helpful is learning how to hip hinge. It's like the deadlift at the gym.
tyson (34:32.354)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (34:32.467)
Right? If we only practice that form while we're lifting something heavy at the gym, that's what, you know, maybe three sets of five or even that. Right. And then 900 times later you're emptying the dishwasher and you're picking up toys, you're picking up socks, you're just like bending over and bending from your lower back. You're like, wow, I have no clue why my back hurts. Like all of those add up. So if you can learn how to, um,
sort of like blend the barriers between how you're moving in the gym and how you're moving in your regular life that can be super helpful. So all this is to say I'm not like in perfect posture 24 7 like a robot like no I slouch for sure but all of those times I'm going to pick something up I'm making sure that I am doing a hip hinge or I am doing more of a squat type of thing so that I again have more repetitions of a movement that is more functional like that's literally what it means.
tyson (35:12.199)
Yeah.
Alex (35:29.319)
rather than just hammering on that same kind of poor movement mechanics that also shows up when I'm super tired that also is contributing to how my body is feeling, how my tension is, how my pain is and all of those things.
tyson (35:43.942)
Yeah, you're so right. It's so true that, I mean, myself and everyone listening to this podcast, we're looking for the magic bullet. We're looking for that one magic pill that goes, all right, this is gonna fix it. And unfortunately, yet again, the truth is, it's amazing how often the most simple things done consistently offer the best results. And what you said there, I think correlates beautifully for distance runners, because distance running's got that reputation for rewarding athletes who are most consistent, most consistently avoiding injury,
Alex (35:50.703)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Alex (36:12.566)
Right.
tyson (36:13.736)
and doing the small things. So that's a really big takeaway for me. It's like, it's amazing how many times I'll hear that, hey, just do the simple things consistently and how every time I hear it, it's such a good reminder. Cause I'm always like, no, I need that massage gun. I'm, it would have changed it. No, really. Ha ha ha.
Alex (36:23.059)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (36:28.291)
I know right? The vibrating foam roller that's the missing element here I know.
tyson (36:34.622)
And all you have to do is look back. I mean, I've been in the sport long enough now to see 15 different magic things come and go. And I mean, I think if I looked deep enough in my garage, I would find the old ab curler that was the magic thing back in 1998. I don't know if you guys had those, but that was how long, I mean, I'm just probably revealing more to everyone about how long I've been working on this six pack than what you all care. But.
Alex (36:41.047)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (36:48.383)
Yes.
Yep.
tyson (37:01.914)
In terms of how we balance the, so this, we've spoken a lot about core strength, we've spoken a lot about the value and the benefit of things that don't appear to be really difficult, but when actually put into practice, you realize they are. What about the classic old, just getting in the gym and lifting really heavy weights, your dead lifts, your squats, your pistol squats, whatever else it is, like.
Is there, would you say that's completely overrated or is that still a beneficial part of a training program for someone trying to run faster for long distance?
Alex (37:37.231)
Oh yeah. I mean, sorry, is my desk is like dismantling itself over here. I'm like, ah, things are falling. Um, yeah, keeping it super simple is absolutely the way to go. Um, the, I call them the big three, like the three important movements that if you master them, you can do anything well, um, are the squat, the hip hinge and the overhead reach was the ability to take your arms overhead without your back arching or your ribs going along for the ride.
tyson (37:40.505)
No dramas.
Alex (38:04.031)
And so really a functional, well-rounded movement program includes all of those things. So variations of squats, whether that's, you know, upright or I'm doing more of a plyometric or explosive like a box jump or something like that. You know, hip hinges with your feet together, split stance or, you know, one-legged or doing a bridge lift. You just take all of those things, throw them in a snow globe, shake them around and continue to work on those. And that...
sets you up to be able to do pretty much anything well. Um, especially with like the overhead stuff, being able to lift something overhead without losing that core stability is so important. Cause like, what about again, five one trying to get something off the top shelf at the grocery store. If I can't also protect my back and stay in a good movement or good position, like there's no way I'm going to be able to pick it up once I finally get my hands on it, you know? So yeah.
And it, you know what, my friend and I were literally just having this conversation. She's like, I am so bored of deadlifts and squats and this. And I'm like, yeah, because it is. Like it doesn't need to be fancy. I think sometimes people overcomplicate, especially on social media to make it look really stink and cool. I'm like, that does look cool. How is that gonna help me walk up and down the stairs while carrying my dog? And the answer a lot of the times is it's not. So that's where changing it up with, you know, Pilates, like you're talking about, a yoga class, maybe it's finding
tyson (39:05.154)
Heheheheh
tyson (39:20.002)
Yeah.
Alex (39:29.775)
um, a class on YouTube or an instructor that you really like or getting an app or something to give you that dopamine hit of like something new. But ultimately at the end of the day, like all roads lead back to making sure you can keep your spine in good positions while you're moving, um, and continuing to work on strength training. It's so boring. I know, but I'm so, I don't make the rules.
tyson (39:49.482)
Yeah, yeah. No, it's not. It's, yeah, it's boring, but I think the thing that gets me excited is, like that simple works for me.
And the more complicated it gets, the less consistent with something like that. So the idea of it just being simple and doing it daily, I feel is sort of goes, there's an Australian distance runner who used to call it the phone book theory, when phone books were a thing. Like every day of training was like that thin piece of paper. You could tear that quite easily, but you layer up a hundred of those, 200 of those, get to the end result of the phone book. And it's just really hard to break. And I like that analogy, even though it's being dated really quickly
Alex (40:13.995)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (40:26.415)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (40:30.572)
She's like, what's a phone book? Yeah. We're going back, we're going back. Hey Alex, for anyone listening to this who's like, all right, I'm gonna check out this chick's website. I wanna see what it is that she's about. They get into your platform. What do they find within the membership there?
Alex (40:32.261)
A phone book? That's crazy. I remember phone books. I remember encyclopedias. Okay.
Alex (40:53.211)
Yeah, well, so aewelness.com, come hang out. I also post a ton of stuff on social media, so all the links are on my website as well. I'd say what I really like to help people with is a mobility assessment, right? So that would be the first place to start.
tyson (40:56.575)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (41:09.927)
you know, we get to work together. I look at how you're moving in squats, hip hitching and overhead reaches and develop a plan for you based on that. If you wanna do that more ongoing and you wanna hang out with me more, we can do that in the membership, which is a, you know, a more group training type of thing. I do one-on-one coaching. If you wanna be best friends and talk every week and send memes back and forth, we can do that too.
tyson (41:31.918)
Heheheheh
Alex (41:33.119)
but I also have a bunch of DIY options, right? If you just wanna kind of see how things are, if you are really a self-starter and don't need a lot of support, the Mobility Mastery Toolkit is a cool option. And also on my website, I'm pretty sure it's on the homepage. If it's not, I'll go put it right when we're done. There's something called the Foot Pain Fix, which is a free five-day.
exercises, mobility type of work to help with foot pain. So I'm thinking for you as well. And for any of your listeners who have any foot issues like tight calves or ankles, or even knee pain or plantar fasciitis or any of the number of fun things that happen to our feet, that'd be a really good place to start.
tyson (42:15.562)
Sweet, all right, I hope that's on your homepage because I'm gonna go and do it. I'm gonna go and check it out because I need, yeah, I'm gonna go real quick. No, it's always so fun catching up. I know it's only the second time that you've been on the show, but I remember the first time being an absolute blast and today's no exception. It's always, it blows my mind, just the amount of things that in 210 episodes of this podcast, it,
Alex (42:19.975)
Let me see if I can beat you there. Let's get it, make sure it is.
tyson (42:39.974)
It trips me at how many small things can add up to a big result for people improving, whatever sport it is, but with specific reference to the podcast, Distance Running. So, I mean, thanks for coming back, breaking down the really complex stuff, making it simple for not just me, but for everyone else who doesn't wanna do the real heavy lifting with the research. It's always fun to chat with you.
Alex (42:43.787)
Mm-hmm.
Alex (42:57.195)
Yeah.
Alex (43:00.955)
Yeah, my pleasure is always a blast. Anytime you wanna shoot the shit about anything, let me know. Yeah.
tyson (43:03.446)
Peace.
Yes, sweet, I'll take that, I'll take that because often finding guests on this podcast is one of the biggest challenges. So I mean, I'm more than happy to do that. I'll have you back as a regular guest. Awesome, thanks Alex. I'll cut that off there. Bang, sweet, can you still not see?
Alex (43:16.348)
Yeah, I'd love that.
Yeah, thanks for having me.