Welcome back to The Inspired
Living with Autoimmunity podcast.
I'm your host, Julie Michelson, and today
we're joined by Margaret Floyd Berry,
functional nutritionist, writer, and real
food advocate, and we're talking about
food sensitivities and autoimmunity.
Through restorative wellness solutions,
Margaret trains fellow practitioners,
the proven system she uses to get her
clients' life-changing results, and she's
sharing that knowledge with us today.
I'm so excited to share our
conversation with you as it has the
power to truly allow you to heal.
Margaret, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to chat.
I am thrilled that you're here.
I, full disclosure before we
hit record, was telling you how
excited I am for our topic today.
Anybody that knows me, In real
life knows that this is something
I talk about all the time.
So I can't wait to dig in.
And let's talk about this connection
of food sensitivities and autoimmunity.
Absolutely.
Let's do it.
Yes.
So let's, you know, why are we even
talking about food sensitivities?
Like what is the.
You know, importance.
Well, yeah.
Why do people, anyone with autoimmunity
or I would say really any, any
kind of inflammation going on.
Why do they need to know
about food sensitivities?
You just said the key word, which
is inflammation, and I know that
your audience is super well versed
in autoimmunity, but I do wanna just
like, I wanna explain the way I think
about autoimmunity, cuz I think it's a
really, I have a very sort of simple.
Probably oversimplified way of thinking
about it, but it helps to kind of
bring it all together, which is, you
know that, we know that our immune
system has essentially two jobs, right?
It's protecting us from pathogens
and it's doing internal housekeeping.
And as part of these jobs, it has this
really important mechanism of distinction
and differentiation, basically, of
being able to differentiate between
self and other and between friend info.
And that's, we know that what auto I.
Is at its root is a failure of
this mechanism where now it is
attacking friendly self in a way
that it would enemy fa, right?
And it's, it's making some
kind, It's sort of misfiring.
It's, it's, it's actually it,
it, the distinction mechanism
has gone awry for some reason.
And so the question when you're
addressing this from a functional
perspective is, . And another sort of
oversimplified, but I think helpful
analogy is to think about this, you
know, the immune system is a very,
very sophisticated, wise mechanism and.
Yeah, if we are constantly taxing it
and engaging it, then it will kinda
like any of us, like, I don't know
about you, but I know from me that when
I am not getting a break and I am go,
go, go, burning the candles of both
ends, I start to make bad decisions.
And essentially at its most basic, what's
happening in an autoimmune disease is that
immune system is being constantly engaged.
It's being just worked all the time, such
that it's starting to make bad decisions.
And so the question is, what
is taxing the immune system?
What is keeping it so busy?
And inflammation is a process
mediated, managed by the immune
system and essential to it.
So anything.
That is driving inflammation
in our body is going to be
engaging that immune system.
Now, food sensitivities are by
definition, as we ingest a food that
should really be harmless, right?
But we ingest a food and
it's triggering some kind of
inflammatory process in the body.
And the thing with food
sensitivities is that, you know,
there's an important distinct.
Food sensitivities versus food
allergies versus like a food
intolerance, like a lactose intolerance.
So, you know, a food allergy, you know,
just to, to geek out on the immune system.
Come on, it's IgE.
So it's mediated by IgE antibodies.
And the thing with this is, this
reaction happens really quickly, right?
Like, you eat the peanuts, you break
out in the hives, you know, you, you eat
the shellfish, you throw it up, right?
Like, there's not a
know,
you know, Especially as
we become adults, right?
Kids, a little bit less so because
they're not exposed to things,
you know, they can't communicate
what's going on as easily.
But for adults at this point in our lives,
most of us are really clear on foods
that we get an immediate response with.
And then same kind of thing
with food intolerances.
And I realize the language of
food intolerance, food sensitivity
gets really kind of mish mashed.
But let's talk about food
intolerances and define them for
the sake of this conversation.
As a digestive, a lack
of digestive capacity.
To actually break down a
component of that food.
So a classic example of this is
a lactose intolerance, right?
So the body does not produce the
enzyme lactase that is required
to digest the milk sugar lactose.
And again, it doesn't take
a lot of trial and error.
Like people with lactose intolerance
rarely are like confused by the fact
that when they eat the ice cream or drink
the glass of milk, that they have pretty
significant and uncomfortable digest.
Symptoms shortly thereafter.
Like it happens within the
matter of some people minutes.
For some people hours, but it's quick,
and it's a digestive symptom.
So it's easy to connect
easily to be like, Ooh,
that didn't sit well.
Right.
Whereas a food sensitivity, it's
complicated for a number of reasons.
So there's multiple mechanisms
within the body that trigger
it, but it can also be delayed.
And I think that's one of the most
important and trickiest components
when we're talking about food
sensitivities, is, you know, here
we are when we're recording this,
we're talking on a Wednesday.
You know, we could have eaten
something for lunch today on a
Wednesday that doesn't actually, Eli.
A response for two to three days.
So by Saturday I'm not thinking
about what I ate today.
Right?
Like, and this is one of the reasons
why elimination diets are so freaking
challenging and make people want
to rip out their hair, is because
it's like, I cannot figure out the
correlations and it's this delayed
response that is so difficult.
And it also, you can have foods
that you are moderately sensitive
to, are mildly sensitive to.
It's not like you eat them and even if
you had an immediate reaction, it might
not be symptomatically that loud, but it's
sort of like the steady, slow drip, right?
Like the sort of Chinese water torture.
It will really build symptoms over time.
plus there's usually multiple foods.
Adding to the, the situation, which is,
is part of the, the tricky part too.
You know, it's, it's not like,
Oh, I have a food sensitivity.
It usually, by the time you
have one, you have more.
And I'm guessing we'll
touch on on that as well.
So this is why this is such a
passion point, and, and I love, I
love the different perspectives.
This is why I actually
love the elimination diet.
I love the proper reintroduction phase.
And, and maybe we'll talk a
little bit about that as, as we
get into kind of, you know, how.
Mm-hmm.
this and you touched on it before.
But I see it all the time,
so I have to highlight.
We're not talking about, although there
could be a sensitivity to an inflammatory
food, we're not talking about the gluten,
the dairy, the sugar, the things that we
would, you know, you could read a book
and go take out on your own and, and
know to look for we're talking about.
Yes, those.
But what I see all the time with
people who've been on this journey a
while, it's the healthy foods, it's
the nutrient dense foods cuz they're
trying to eat so well and be so healthy.
So I'm excited to, to dig in further.
I wasn't kidding before.
This is making me so happy.
this conversation.
People need, They really
do need to understand.
And, and even now, I hear all the
time when I say, cuz I am personally
sensitive to dairy and, and people will
say, Oh yeah, I'm lactose intolerant.
And I'm like, No, no, no, it's different.
So you did such a good job
explaining I think to me the simple
explanations are, are the best.
And I love that the idea of.
Like the decision fatigue
that our immune system is
totally.
it just loses precision.
It really does.
Yeah.
So we're leaning in,
we're like, Hmm, , okay.
You know, I don't have gut
symptoms, so I never really
thought about food being a thing.
You know, walk us through.
I know you have this amazing process.
I'm guessing since you're not
a big fan of the elimination
diet that you, you like testing.
Tell me, tell me, you
know, what do people do?
How do you even explore, you
know, what you're sensitive to?
Well, I wanna qualify that.
So let's talk about elimination diets
for a moment, because for some people
as a particularly as a starting point,
it can be really, really helpful.
Right?
Like, so I think, and, and to
your point, we're not talking
about the usual suspect here.
So if you have autoimmune and you
have not, Yet eliminated gluten,
dairy, soy, sugar, processed oils.
Okay, That's the starting point.
You do that for a lot of
people, that's enough, right?
I mean, you think about toast things.
I say them and it's like only five things.
Every one of those is
ubiquitous in the modern diet.
So that's not a small project,
Then, but, but if you just, just
eliminate those things, you're
left with a real food diet, right?
So, so we're at this point now, we're
avoiding, you know, the clearly obviously
inflammatory processed foods and things.
And, and you're right, some people do,
you know, will do like, even like a whole.
and they have remarkable results.
And it's, I always am in awe that
I was able to even start my healing
journey now that I know like really
what was underneath all of it.
So just removing some of those
things was at least enough for
me to get my brain working again
so I could investigate further.
Yeah, well it's removing a really
significant inflammatory burden and you
know, to your point, even in the absence
of digestive symptoms, if we're thinking
about what triggers an immune and an
inflammatory response, if we're eating
for most people multiple times a day,
foods that are unknowingly triggering that
inflammatory response Now, inflammation.
Yes.
In some cases we can feel it like,
and it really depends a little bit on
your sort of constitutional weakness.
So if your constitutional weakness is
like in your joints, then inflammation
for you might be like sore, sore
joints, sore, you know, elbows and
wrists and toes and fingers, right?
Like that.
Can definitely be where you feel
it, but inflammation is not always
for every person, something that
you overtly feel in a creaky body.
That's one manifestation.
And for some people it
can appear as headaches.
For some people it can
appear as skin issues.
For some people it can appear as
joints, but for some people it's, it's
a lot more silent symptomatically,
which in many ways is actually more.
Because it, there isn't something sort of
yelling, like people you know, sometimes
will be like, I hate that whenever
I eat this food, my body does this.
And I'm like, Well,
Stop eating the food
but it's actually your body's
communicating to you really loudly
and really clearly that when you
do x, y happens, and now you have.
Very clear information
about what doesn't work.
Now what you do with that
information is up to you.
But, but it's communicating very clearly.
It's when it's, it's subtler,
it's under the surface.
And we know that inflammatory
processes can be at work long
before they, you feel anything
amiss in your body, Symptomatically.
That's actually where
real trouble can start.
So it's important to remember, you
know, we think about what are the things
that are taxing that immune system,
that are causing that decision fatigue.
And if we're eating foods that
are creating an inflammatory
or triggering an inflammatory
process in our body every day.
Multiple times a day right there.
That is a very, very significant
burden on the immune system.
So even just picking out those really
overtly pro-inflammatory foods that are
inflammatory in everybody is gonna be a
really big step in the right direction.
And then you.
And then you take it to that
next level of like, let's now
look at an elimination diet.
So I'm not gonna consider those,
you know, the sort of the usual
suspects, an elimination diet.
I realize that for some people that does
feel like an elimination diet, but that's
really just taking out the heavy hitters.
But thinking of an elimination
diet, you know, there's,
there's different strategies.
You know, whether it's autoimmune
protocol, whether it is the walls
diet, whether, you know, there's d.
Ways that you can go
about this, the gaps diet.
And I've seen all of these things used
and for some people very successfully,
and that's now taking a whole other layer
of foods out that in many people, not in
all people, but in many people, are going
to trigger that inflammatory process.
Or be challenging on the digestion.
And I think that's actually an
important additional piece here
because we know that 80% of the immune
system lives in and around the gut.
If you're eating something that stresses
your digestion, which again you might not
feel symptomatically that is going to be
a stressor on the immune system as well.
So that's a really beautiful
way that these elimination
diets can be a really good next.
, my clientele tend to come to me
having been on these for a while
and still feeling miserable.
And this is where I think the
value of testing comes in.
Because what can happen is that someone's
on a very restrictive diet and can start
to be afraid of eating a lot of things and
they still don't feel right and likely.
They're avoiding foods they could
be eating while still eating foods
that are triggering inflammation.
And you mentioned, you know,
this can be healthy foods.
I mean, I've seen things as
apparently innocuous as lettuce,
Oh, many types of lettuces.
Right.
You know, or turmeric.
I mean, that's a big one.
The number of people that
I've seen with turmeric.
me.
After years of pounding,
terminated, you know,
It's now become, it's now doing
the opposite in your body, in
your, you know, based on your
bioindividuality in this moment.
And so it's, it's hard to figure that
out with a true elimination unless
you're to go to, and even this, you
know, I know some people will go all
the way to like a carnivore diet or an
animal based diet where they're really
dramatically limiting consumption.
And as you say, the key to
this is a really systematic,
slow reintroduction process.
Hard for a lot of people to do properly.
I have the, I take the same perspective as
you as far as I, I always say we, we want
to be on the most varied nutrient dense
body that, or body diet that supports
our body, which is gonna look different.
And I will say I'm a huge fan.
I mean, you name a program and
I'm trained in it, and a huge
fan of, if you look at these.
Protocols that have like a standard kind
of, you know, eat this, don't eat that.
They're all very similar in that A,
they're all paleo, they're all high
fat, low carb, you know, they're,
they're really parts and pieces that
there's such an overlap between them.
And then there's these little
nuances that are different.
I am an AIP coach.
It's very restrictive
It is.
and.
I can, I believe a hundred
percent across the board.
And, and again, it could be because
by the time people are finding me and
they've tried stuff on their own but,
but these are the people that are
sensitive to spinach and, you know,
lettuce and broccoli and things that,
that they're eating on the pro, you know,
but they're, because they're not eating,
they're avoiding all this other stuff.
I, I used to, in the beginning,
if someone wasn't getting the
results, I thought they, you
know, was expecting we would test.
And I, we just, I mean, if,
if you, if you're working with
me, we're testing right away.
I mean, it just doesn't,
who wants to wait to heal?
We just, we don't wanna wait.
No, we don't at all.
And I think, you know, I, I agree with
everything that you're saying, and I
think that important pieces to recognize
too is that alongside identifying
and removing those foods that are
sensitivities in your body, Yeah.
Really important piece is to
do the digestive healing that
allowed those food sensitivities
to develop in the first place.
And that's one of the things that I
think one of the main critiques of food
sensitivity testing is this process
that, and I've seen it, you know, I've
seen clients come in who've done a
food sensitivity test in isolation.
They've taken out the foods that
come back on that test they have
done, they feel better for a.
and then they haven't done
anything else other than remove
this, this list of foods.
And then, The symptoms start to slowly
creep back in, and a few months later
they're right back to where they started
with and they're like, I don't understand.
And so they do another test and
sometimes it's different foods
or an even more restrictive list,
and the list of their foods gets
shorter and shorter and shorter.
And so they're testing and
they're removing the foods.
And they feel better for a little bit,
but it's almost like they get, they
sort of start to, their tolerance,
their, their tolerance for actually
consuming a variety, as you say,
is so vitally important to be able,
you know, we're not in the business
of creating restrictive diets.
We're in the business of creating
as much food freedom as we can while
healing and so you know, without
addressing that underlying mechanism,
which is fundamentally a leaky
gut, an intestinal permeability,
then you're not gonna get anywhere.
So, you know, when it comes to testing,
you know, we use a really, really specific
approach and that is, you know, I never
do food sensitivity testing in isolation,
and I never do gut testing in isolation.
Always do the two together because
what the gut testing will tell us.
What's going on in the digestive tract,
which is vitally important information
regardless of whether somebody is
presenting with digestive symptoms.
Because of the fact, especially when
we're talking about autoimmunity,
because of the fact that the vast
majority of the immune system lives in
and around the digestive tract is just.
The proximity, I mean,
something is happening.
Anything off in the digestion is
necessarily impacting the immune system.
So those two, you just have to address it.
And with testing, you know, the
thing about symptoms, assuming there
are symptoms, is that, you know,
like let's just take a super simple
presentation of somebody's constipated.
Great.
Is it that they have a hidden
food sensitivity possibly?
Is it that they have, you know, digestive
function issues, they're not secreting
enough, hydrochloric acid, or they've
got a little bit of, you know, sludgy
bile and they're not digesting their fats
on a PPI for
Maybe they've been on a
no idea, you know, is
connected to motility.
kind of, maybe they have
a fungal overgrowth.
Maybe they have some kind of,
maybe they have an h py infection.
Maybe they, I mean, maybe
they have dot, dot, dot.
There's so many different factors
that can be the underlying
enough water.
It simple, right?
And, and yeah, without testing, without
sort of looking under the hood, we are
left at guessing and, and the way that
we address and correct those imbalances
is very different depending on what the
root cause of that situation actually is.
And so, We use the stool testing to
help us look under the hood, like
see what's actually going on so
that we understand how to correct it
very specifically and strategically.
And then alongside that, we're
using a food sensitivity test.
And we'll talk about the
different types of tests here.
But we use a very specific one
that is, Telling us what foods are
driving inflammation in the system.
So we're actually very specific
that we don't use a lot of the IgG
ig, like the, the antibody tests.
We actually don't use those
because for a number of reasons.
So I've opened the door, so
I guess I'll walk through it.
The thing with antibody tests is,
Let's take an IgG test, for example.
Elevations in IgG antibodies are
not always directly correlated with
elevations in inflammation as the
result of ingesting that food, right?
And that's one of the reasons why
a lot of IgG tests have started
adding in additional immune markers.
So they're not only looking for the
elevation and the antibody, which
is just the immune system tagging.
The antigen or the food
saying it's the enemy, right?
So it's, it's tagging that saying
it needs to, it shouldn't be
here, we need to deal with it.
But that isn't always directly correlated
with the level of inflammation.
So some of these tests have added on like
compliment or other different aspects of
the immune system to assess whether this
elevation in antibodies is correlated
with an elevation in inflammation.
So that's definitely a huge
step in the right direction.
And if you do antibody testing,
I'm a believer in those tests
that add on that additional piece.
The challenges that not.
Food sensitivity reactions involve
antibodies, so necessarily you're
missing a category of food sensitivities.
These food sensitivities that are,
and these tend to be, there are cell
media, so they happen inside the cell.
It's an elevation of T-cell and
phagocytes right within the cell
that are just causing that reaction.
No antibody involvement at all.
And often these are the types
of reactions that are delayed.
And so when, when you're, when
you're only testing the mechanism
then you're necessarily missing
these, these cell mediated.
Responses.
So the test we use, and I know I,
I, I know that it's controversial.
Some people love it, some people
hate it, and the haters are loud.
So so if you go googling this
test, you're gonna find a lot
of people totally dissing it.
But I, I really do wanna emphasize
we use it in a very specific way.
So it's, it's the mediator release test.
So it's the test that's
looking at the endpoint.
It's looking for evidence of
inflammation as a result of
the ingestion of a given food.
Also, if you've heard of the lcat, it's,
it's this, it's the, not the precursor.
What's the It's,
Predecessor.
no, it's the LCAT is its
predecessor, but I don't know
how to say that in the reverse.
Sorry.
I'm trying to up with a word that
I, I'm sure exists, but I don't,
can't think of it right now.
So, LCA is the MRTS predecessor.
It's it is, it was founded
by the same scientist.
And so the MRT is just more recent
technology, so, The key though is that
we never use it in isolation, ever.
So we always do it alongside a stool test.
And another key is that removing those
foods identified as inflammatory by
that test, that's not a forever thing.
That's a temporary thing, right?
That's while we do the healing
in the digestive tract.
And as I said earlier, the goal is not a
restrictive diet, as you beautifully said.
It's a varied diet.
It's the most diverse, the most
full abundant diet we can come to.
I mean, yes, there's probably
gonna be some things.
Your body just gives a hard note and
I'm gonna say glutens at the top of that
Sure if you've, I mean, we
can, that's a whole nother
episode on gluten and leaky gut.
But if you're at a place where
you have leaky gut, Gluten is
never gonna be your friend.
And if you have any autoimmunity,
gluten's never gonna be your friend.
Yeah, I dunno that
gluten's anybody's friend.
I was gonna say, I don't know
that it's anybody's friend.
I think that like it's a heart.
That's a, you know,
It's a hard stop where that's the, I
always the qualifier, I say, you know,
at the, Cuz people love to say, Well,
what you know, what's the ideal diet?
Well, it's individualized
except nobody should eat gluten,
Yeah, that's the one thing if I
was to rule the world, I would just
Yeah, it'd just be gone.
Exactly.
Think life's simpler for everybody.
I love.
Okay, so we're, you're testing, you're
testing sensitivities, you're testing,
you're doing the stool test, so identify
the underlying cause and while, so
then you're eliminating the foods that
we pull them out temporarily.
The way that I describe it is
think about if you have like a
big old cut on your arm, okay?
And you're doing all the things, all
the healing, balms, all the things.
But then every day, multiple times
a day, you take that open wound and
you rub it along a brick wall, right?
It's gonna slow down the healing process.
You might get there, but it's
gonna take a heck of a lot
longer, and you could make it a
a really thick scar by the time you're
Right.
It's terrible.
So really what we're doing is
we're removing the brick wall.
The food sensitivities are
the things that are irritants.
They're triggering inflammation,
and they're working against
the healing process.
So, We use the stool test to inform
what we're doing in terms of the
healing process and then we remove
one of these blocking factors.
Cuz if you're continuing to
consume inflammatory foods,
that's absolutely gonna get in
the way of the healing process.
So so we're pulling those out
temporarily, you know, and the
time is anywhere between, sort of
depends on the degree of sensitivity,
the degree of reaction to a food.
But it's gonna be between three to six.
Typically, so this is not a forever
thing and I, you know, I think back
to way back in the day, long before I
changed careers and moved into the field
of nutrition, I had, I struggled with
a really, really bad case of eczema,
which I'd had since I was in my teens.
Well, and I'm laughing.
Literally, this is the fir, this is
how excited I was to talk about this.
You can, Every episode I've ever
recorded, we start with I, My, my first
question should have been, Margaret,
how did you get into this world?
What is, you know, what is your story?
But I was so excited to talk about
the food sensitivities that I just
like jumped, got way ahead of myself.
So that's such a big one.
Eczema and
It was awful.
It was awful.
And I had it everywhere.
I mean, I would just sort of
oh,
anyone who hasn't had it, this
like, I remember my dermatologist
described it as an itch that
rashes, but the itch, oh my God.
It's just like, it makes
you just go insane.
And I had, you know, at the time
I did not eat, I mean gluten.
I mean, that was the staple
of everything that I did.
I mean, I, and I remember you know,
I had basically my doctor gave me
cortisone cream and it would kind of
keep things under control, not really.
And I remember it, it got, I
was in my mid twenties and I
started getting it in my eyes.
And it was like, I would like my eyelids
and I could scratch my eyelids and the
skin was getting into my eyes and then
I had to go to the eye doctor cuz I
was having all these eye infections.
It was so bad.
And the doctor was like, Well
here's a higher dose of steroids
and or the cortisol cream.
And I remember being like,
That doesn't seem like.
Like, I just, I didn't know
very much about this, but
right?
I was like, Am I gonna
burn my eyelids off?
Like this doesn't feel
right and it's not working.
And you know, this was, I said mid
twenties and I was living up in Canada
at the time and a very dear friend
of mine was really into this sort
of a natural weird stuff in my mind.
And she said, Oh, have you ever
thought of going to see a naturopath?
And I was like, What's that?
. And so she recommended this person and
I laughed and I said, Oh, she's gonna
take away all my favorite food groups
Mm-hmm.
and wine and cheese and chocolate.
And like, had it only ended there, right?
So I , I went to work with this
woman and we did some testing
and that a list of foods.
Now what I will.
Either I didn't hear it,
which is highly possible.
Or she didn't mention this was a temporary
thing cuz I remember I went home with
this list of foods that I was not supposed
to eat and thought this was forever
the rest of your life.
I mean, I thought, oh, this
is, I mean, it was, there's so
bother
why bother?
Like why eat?
Can I just get a feeding tube?
Like it just, I just, the whole thing.
And I loved food.
I loved to eat a love to
cook, so I was devastated.
But here's the, It wasn't forever, and B,
within three weeks that eczema went away
and I'm now 48 and it has never come back.
isn't that
I mean, I was like, Woo.
I.
was the moment where my eyes were
like, Oh, wide open to the fact that.
What you eat.
I mean, I never thought that
something I ate would have
anything to do with my skin.
The two seemed completely in utter.
I mean, I could kind of calculate
like I eat a thing, my stomach hurts.
Like, yeah, that, that makes sense, but
eat a thing, get itchy and turn into
a rash that did those things did not
Well, and like you said, when it
becomes this ongoing, you know,
it, it's, I, I, my favorite client
story, I, they're all my favorite,
but I, I was working with a client.
I was 2020.
I can remember for obvious reasons,
but when I first met with her, she was
referred from her functional medicine
doc and she was not referred for eczema.
We're in our consultation.
And I was kind of giving her, you
know, my approach and we were talking
about, you know, what she thought
she was seeing me for and what
she, you know, what were her goals.
And she mentioned kind of
in passing, she was 70.
Oh.
the time, and she mentioned
I've had eczema since I was two.
Oh,
And I said to her, Well, when we
do these things for the stuff your
doctor's really concerned about, I,
I'm pretty sure we're gonna figure
out what's triggering your eczema.
And she looked at me like I was
insane, you know, and from another
planet and at which I understood.
And sure enough, it was corn, it was corn.
So at 72, she got rid of her eczema,
Oh my gosh.
That makes me wanna cry.
I mean, I just think of all of those years
that she was suffering without needing to
Well, and that, again, that's like
another, you know, episode of my,
my poor oldest had a GI specialist
from the time he was an infant.
Nobody ever said, you know, what,
what am I eating when I was nursing?
Or what is he, you know, what
is he eating as a toddler?
And so, and that's a, a direct, the
poor kid couldn't keep food down.
But so, wow.
So when, And it is when.
The power, yet simplicity that food
and you know, can have on health.
It's like what the world
needs to know about this
It completely.
I mean, it took me a few years to
get there from a career perspective.
Now I should also share it since we're,
you know, sort of talking personal story.
And one of the reasons why I'm so
passionate about autoimmune because at
the time I didn't realize that there
was an autoimmune component to eczema,
which of course now we know there is.
But my mom had very, very
severe autoimmune she had both
lupus as well as rheumatoid a.
As well as multiple other
things, but it was really awful.
I had a front row seat to really
what doesn't work in terms of medical
management of autoimmune because
the strategy was a hundred percent
to dramatically downregulate her
immune system overall and to and just
load her up on anti-inflammatories,
steroidal really, really intense doses.
And then, Just start taking things
out as needed, and it was so.
Brutal.
You know, she started it.
She, she basically, over the course
of 20 years, it was just this slow
process of degradation and in some
ways she was a medical miracle, right?
Like these drugs were keeping her going.
They were allowing her
some quality of life.
Not much, but some.
But it was this really painful process
of one step forward, three steps back,
one step forward, two steps back,
two steps forward, five steps back.
I mean, it was just, Awful.
And she ultimately lost her
life to complications and side
effects from the very medications
that were keeping her alive.
And so, I had, Thank you.
I know I had already changed careers
to pursuing nutrition, and the reason
why I learned about this testing and
started diving into this deeper work
was because the clients like my mom,
who were just so sick, I mean, I just
knew there had to be a better way.
I didn't believe that
this should be her fate.
Now, you know, she, So I was already
working as a practitioner when she
passed, and you know, Was she that
open to doing this kind of work?
No, but I mean, she was
also sick at a time.
I can remember when she was first
diagnosed, she started bringing
home all these books about aids.
And I was like, I was
a teenager at the time.
And I was like, Why?
Why are you getting that?
And she was like, Well, they think that
if they find a solution to AIDS that
because AIDS is shutting down the immune
system and autoimmune disease is the
immune system going crazy that like they
sort of thought it was like the reverse.
Like that's how early
in this whole process.
It was so, the information that she
had and was working with was so, so
limited compared to our understanding
of what's the mechanisms at play now.
But I just,
unfortunately though, which is why we're
having this conversation and sharing it,
yeah,
somebody going to a rheumatologist
and getting to diagnose today,
unfortunately, is being told the same
thing that she was told and that I was
told, which is that you can't heal.
And all we can do is try to slow things
down, manage pain, slow down symptom.
Try to prolong death.
The deal is this process that I'm
describing, you know, my whole practice,
I specialize in autoimmune and I have, I
mean, the, the things that we're talking
about, I mean, we sometimes we have to
get a little bit, you know, there's a
lot of different things can stress the
immune system, but I will tell you that
healing the gut, identifying and removing
inflammatory foods, for some people
it's a hundred percent of the process.
It literally, that takes
you across the finish.
And for the vast majority, it's a really
significant part of the port process.
You know, 80 to 90% you've seen super,
super complicated like myasthenia
gravis, you know, pots, these really,
really complex autoimmune processes
that everyone is telling them No hope,
something this simple has been the.
To transforming and really reversing
those, you know, the, the errant
immune system, like reversing that
decision fatigue so that the immune
system can do what it's supposed to do.
You know, it's, it's a powerful,
really important process
and really simple at root.
I think that's part of it.
I don't know, I have theories about this,
but I sometimes wonder if it's just so
simple that it's like, I can't be, or you
know, we need to make it more complicated.
I don't know what it is.
I'm, I'm making stuff up at this
point, but it is, it is simple, you
It, it's simple when you have
experienced it and when you
understand it and you know, I, I.
Because we both encounter people all
the time who just have a hard time
believing, like you said, it could,
could it really be that simple?
And, and I want to highlight what
you said about, you know, Yes.
It, the, it's, it's most likely
or often it's not just food,
but the body is resilient.
And all of these in inflammatory
hits that we take are cumulative.
And so, like you said, we're eating.
Three, sometimes more,
sometimes, you know, whatever.
Hopefully mostly daily,
unless you're fasting.
But so this, this, and this is where
your immune system is, is in your gut.
So it, it's a piece that even if it's,
like you said, you know, only 80 or 90%
and not a hundred percent, it's enough to
really move the needle And, and Like I,
like I said, I'm always amazed now that
I know what other drivers I had going on.
The, literally just changing my diet
at the time was enough to change my
life and get me off my medications
and, you know, I, I was, sometimes
you do need to heal more than that
at once to, to get the results.
You, not only are you helping.
Directly your clients that come
to you with autoimmunity, but
you train practitioners as well.
Which I'm so excited about
because we were, as we were just
mentioning, , like, we need more
people understanding this approach.
And, and so tell, tell me
a little bit about that.
Yeah, absolutely.
So the company is called Restorative
Wellness Solutions and it's original
founder and Fisher Silva was
actually one of my main mentors.
I actually took the very inaugural
class that she ever did back in 2014.
I.
And it's where I learned how to use this
particular combination of tests, how to
use the combination of the stool test
strategically with the mrt, how to use the
information from that to provide and craft
a really effective, powerful protocol
that is just such an incredibly important
starting point for every healing journey.
We're talking about autoimmune, but as
you said at the opening of this, any
process that involves inflammation.
Every chronic disease process.
This is a really vital starting point
and I was at the point in my practice
when I came to rws to take that first
class, I was at a point in my practice
where I was actually considering not
doing any one-on-one work anymore
because I was frustrated cuz I
would these clients that were sick.
Like my mom, and I'd get them
to a certain point, but then
I couldn't get them past it.
Like I could never take
them to the finish line.
And these were the clients, and this is
probably part of my energy around the
elimination diets, is because these were
clients that were doing everything right?
Right.
They were on the elimination diets.
They were taking all the quote
unquote right supplements.
They were doing the sleep
hygiene, they were meditating.
They.
All the things like you wanna check a
box of, like the wellness to-do list.
They were doing it all
and they felt awful.
And I was like, I don't know what else
to say, you know, like I did not know
how to look under the hood effectively.
And I'd done different trainings of, you
know, individual labs and things, but
this was the first program that bought it
all together into a specific methodology
and a process for me to apply and.
It changed everything.
I mean, there were clients where I'd
gotten stuck and I went back to them to
be like, Hey, I've got a whole new set
of tools I think we can get further.
And we did.
Like it would be, you know, the
client, I'd got them 70, 80%.
Now we were like crossing
that finish line.
Right.
And that was really powerful.
So that was back in 2014 and I
quickly became an instructor.
Alongside Anne and then
joined her in the company.
And actually just earlier this year,
she's actually decided to move on.
This is, this is now her legacy and
she has passed the company into my
hands of quite a privilege to be able
to take this and, and fly with it.
So, you know, it's really it's
one thing to be able to impact.
People individually.
But I've realized as she did, the reason
why she created this company originally is
that she couldn't have the impact that she
wanted to with herself and her practice.
You know?
And she had this long wait list
and was looking around at other
practitioners going like, Why
aren't they getting these results?
Why aren't they having the wait list?
And so she just decided to
train others to do what she did.
And so that is what we do.
It's a four, it's a
four tiered curriculum.
So each course is 12 weeks long and we
just do a really deep dive in how to.
These additional tests to get really
strategic to identify like how
can we customize that diet beyond
generic protocol, particularly
when that protocol is not working.
So how do we get hyper-specific to
what's causing inflammation in your body?
Because I can guarantee what's.
Causes it in your body is different
from mine, which is different
from my husband's, which is
different from my kids, right?
Like it's every one of us.
It's totally unique and it's, it's
hard to identify, if not impossible
to identify when you're talking
beyond the basic elimination diets.
It's really challenging to figure these
things out and so without testing,
So being able to do that testing just
allows for a degree of customization
and accuracy with both a diet as well.
The supplement protocols, cuz
I mean, there's some phenomenal
supplements out there, but if
you don't know why, you know?
Right.
Like you could just take either
tons of all sorts of stuff you don't
need or miss them, Mark completely.
So, So It's an honor.
You know, we've got almost a thousand
practitioners now in 15 countries around
the world certified in using these tools.
So, you know, if this, if some of this
approach really resonates with you,
what I would recommend is the website,
restorative wellness solutions.com.
There's a find a practitioner link
and you'll find practitioners in
different states and around the world.
And and if you happen to be a
practitioner and are thinking
about additional training, I would
encourage you to think about this.
I can speak for myself and, and
many of the students who've gone
through our programs, that it has
really revolutionized the way that
I practice and the kind of clinical
results that that I get to the point.
You know, people say, Oh,
is it a business class?
Is it marketing?
Well, we don't specifically teach
you marketing, but here's the thing,
when you get really outstanding
results, as I know that you can ex,
you've experienced this as well.
Your clients happy clients are
the best marketing asset you
could ever possibly hope for.
And oftentimes, you know, we have some
alumni who have just finished our, you
know, our entry level program, which is
where we teach all the gastrointestinal
healing and who are like, I haven't even
built a website and I have a wait list.
So, you know, great results is the
really, you know, Ann always says
results refer and I could not agree more.
It's one of the most important marketing
strategies you can, you can have is
to just be phenomenal what you do.
I am so thrilled that not only,
you know, are you sharing your
wisdom with us but I, I can hear.
You know, you did such a great job
explaining why I've tried this.
I've tried that, including possibly
other food sensitivity testing or even
maybe even if it was the mrt, but that's
all, that's the only piece you had.
So I guys.
Find, you know, go to the website and,
and find yourself a practitioner because
Margaret is, is shared some real gold and
hopefully it's connected the dots for,
for people that feel like, I know you hear
this all the time, I've tried everything.
Yes.
And, and I know it feels that way
Yeah.
you've only tried what you've
known to try and having this
kind of customized protocol.
Is, is priceless and, and as
both of us can testify to, you
know, no matter where you are.
You mentioned it earlier as
far as complicated cases and
where you are in your journey.
I mentioned a 72 year old client.
It, it's never too late to start to heal.
Body is a magnificent healing machine
It
given the right tools.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So what is, other than going to the
website and finding a practitioner,
what's one step that listeners can take
today to start to improve their health?
That's a tough
Trick question.
I know,
thing.
So I, I know I can't answer with it.
Annoyingly vague.
It depends.
But here's what I would say.
The audience is autoimmune.
Likely folks have done this already.
But here's what I'm gonna say.
If you ha I'm gonna give an
advanced and an and a beginner.
Here's the beginner step.
If you haven't done so already,
kick gluten to the curb.
And I'm not saying going low gluten,
there's no such thing as low gluten.
It's out.
Right?
It's not a, I do it night, Monday
through Saturday, and then Sunday I
have a croissant with my daughter.
Nope.
It's out and so, and just say goodbye.
And it's actually, do you know what,
there's so much freedom in that.
I know it sounds hard, but just
being like, I don't eat that.
First of all, there's all sorts of foods
you probably shouldn't be eating anyways
that are just necessarily off the table.
And, and it's easier to just
say no to something than to say
sometimes, because sometimes it
slope and and it really doesn't work.
So if you've got any kind of
autoimmune situation going on, you
just need to say goodbye to gluten.
And I know that's, that,
that's a, that's a big step.
So for anyone who hasn't done
that, That is your first step.
, you know, when it, if
you've already done that.
Oh boy.
I mean, there's so many different
things that you could go into, but
what I would do is if you have already
done that and you're not feeling great
yet, I would, I would take a minute
and do a bit of an inventory and look
at the different things that are, that
could be stressing your immune system.
And even if you're not a practitioner I
think we also know some basics, right?
Like we know that stress is very
taxing on the immune system.
Not getting enough sleep, really
taxing on the immune system.
Eating, I mean, we talked about the, you
know, the usual suspects, dairy, soy,
so gluten of course, but dairy, soy.
Process sugar and refined seed oils,
those, if those are still on the diet,
those are causing inflammation, Those
are causing your immune system stress.
So just kinda doing a bit of an
inventory of what is still triggering
and engaging that immune system.
And then sort of slowly and systematically
starting to correct those things.
And it's gonna look really
different for every person.
This is why it's really hard to answer
the question of like, what's the one
thing other than kick gluten to the curb?
It is
Well, and the inventory is, is, you know,
that is ideal because often we're, we
just don't wanna look . So if you take
that moment, you know, I, I find that
one place to up level, you know, what
is, what is the, the thing that I am
ignoring that I, I know, you know, oh my
gosh, my sleep is not what it should be.
Or fill in the blank.
I mean, I'll share personally
for me, recently, sleep has been
like my nemesis and I will share
that in the last few weeks.
I've kind of figured it out, right?
And it's like, holy cow, the world is
a better place when I'm well rested.
Like really, truly,
I'm sure your kids would agree
Oh, everybody would agree.
Trust me, there's not an aspect of my
life that poor sleep does not touch,
and good sleep does not improve.
So I mean, it can, It's not something
that this process doesn't end.
Right?
Like, you know, Julie, you and I are here.
We've been doing this work for a really
long time, and we're still constantly
like assessing and fine tuning.
It's just, you know, health is not
one of those things that you tick off
the list and it's like, Oh, lifetime
accomplishments, like going to Hawaii.
I also took care of my health.
It just doesn't work that way.
Right?
We have to keep our eye.
Yeah.
And it does, It sounds so cliche.
Health is a journey, but it it is.
It's.
Constantly, you know, life
is constantly changing and we
constantly need to be tweaking and
adjusting and up-leveling and yeah.
And I don't know if you've found
this for me, it has been, you know,
if you asked me two years ago how I
felt, I would say, I feel amazing and
I can't believe I could feel this.
Well.
And then every six months, if you ask
me that question, I'll have the like it.
Just, I, I can't think of like, Oh,
it would be good if only, like, I feel
great, and then when I look over my
shoulder I'm like, Wow, I feel even better
than I did six months ago, a year ago.
My goal for clients is I want
them to feel better than they
even can dream possible right now.
Yes,
And to forget how bad it felt.
You know, I always also tell clients
there's gonna be a moment when you're
like, Why am I eating this weird diet?
Why are we taking all these supplements?
And that's actually the time where we
have to, like, it's again, gets hardest
because you're thinking, I feel great.
I don't know why I'm
doing all these things.
And oftentimes that's the moment they
slip, but then things come back and they
and they remember
the habits.
But but yeah, I really, I, that's my goal
is for, for all clients and for, you know,
all of your listeners is to get to that
place where you just, you're sort of like,
I had no idea I could feel this good.
And I don't even really
remember what that felt like.
Cuz that's possible every, for
every single person that's possible.
I don't believe that there's, you
know, I don't, I don't, I haven't
yet seen the person where that's just
truly absolutely an impossibility.
It sometimes it's hard work.
I'm not gonna pretend it's easy,
I love it.
Margaret, thank you so much.
You have shared amazing
gold with us today.
Oh, you're so welcome.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been great hanging out.
For everyone listening, remember, you
can get the show notes and transcripts
by visiting inspired living.show.
I hope you had a great time and
enjoyed this episode as much as I did.
I will see you next week.
