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Welcome to The Chemical Show™, where chemicals mean business. Featuring interviews with industry executives, you’ll hear about the key trends impacting chemicals and plastics today: growth, sustainability, innovation, business transformation, digitalization, supply chain, talent, strategic marketing, customer experience and much more.
Episodes are published every Tuesday.
Hosted by industry veteran Victoria Meyer, The Chemical Show brings you the latest insights into the industry. You will hear from leading industry executives as they discuss their companies, business, markets, and leadership. You’ll learn how chemical, specialty chemical, petrochemical, material science and plastics companies are making an impact, responding to the changing business environment, and discussing best practices and approaches you can apply in your business.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I would say
there are a few things in terms of kind
of building collaboration alignment.
One, is the one where people say, leave
the ego at your, at the door, right?
It's if you have an approach that's my
way or the highway, it's very difficult
to build collaborative initiatives, right?
Need to come with the mentality of,
my agenda may not be exactly the
same as every other organization's
agenda, but there's enough common
issues that we want to join on that
we can work together on those issues,
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Discover how leading companies
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Here's your host, Victoria Meyer.
Victoria: Hi, this is Victoria Meyer.
Welcome back to The Chemical Show,
where chemicals means business.
Today, I am speaking with Karin
Kirchnick of the American Chemistry
Council, also known as ACC.
Karin is the Managing Director
of Sustainability for ACC.
She's an environmental lawyer by training
and has been working throughout her career
to improve policies and procedures related
to sustainable development worldwide.
Prior to joining ACC, Karin worked
at the World Bank where she partnered
with over 300 companies to in multi
stakeholder mechanisms, that's a tongue
twister to advance programs, projects,
and policy reform to accelerate action to
meet the sustainable development goals.
There's a lot more that I can talk
about with Karin and we're going to
get to it as we have our conversation.
So Karin, welcome to The Chemical Show.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Victoria: I'm really
glad to have you here.
Let's just start out with a
little bit on your career.
And what prompted your interest in
environmental law and ultimately
a career in sustainability?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644:
So I'll be honest.
My original intent was
to be a criminal lawyer.
And I do watch a lot of the criminal
law shows these days to make up the
fact that didn't go into criminal law.
Victoria: There we go.
Yeah,
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: but I, so it
was actually when I was in law school,
I international environmental law was
beginning to be like an emerging field.
And, my family had always been,
interested in environmental issues.
We immigrated from what
was Czechoslovakia.
I was born in Slovakia.
So it was also right after the fall
of the wall and the new Central and
Eastern Europe that was emerging
and international environmental
law was an emerging area as well.
So I decided to go into that and then
from there really build it into bringing
that expertise in what was sustainable
development to Central Eastern Europe
and the newly independent states.
So my first work out after law
school was actually based in Slovakia
Czechoslovakia, now Slovakia working
on environmental issues, looking
at air, water, and waste issues.
And then from there started working in the
other countries in Central Eastern Europe.
So it was a combination of kind
of family background history,
But also a new and emerging area.
Environmental law, it was an
area in international law, but
international environmental law
was really beginning to take hold.
And to me it was really intriguing
and I did want to spend my
career working around the world.
So it came together in that way.
Victoria: that's really cool.
I did not realize that you had
really started out being very global.
And as you say, focusing on Slovakia and
addressing the environmental topics there.
Now Chernobyl was obviously a
big issue in Eastern Europe.
And when, was that around the
time that you were coming out?
I don't even remember what year that was.
So was that
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: It's a really
honestly, I that's a good question.
And when was Chernobyl?
I
should know
because my one of my mom's
cousins worked for the atomic
power plant that was in Slovakia.
But we were always focused
on that atomic power plant.
So to be honest, I don't remember.
But the issues around the kind of
formal Central Eastern Europe and what
the environmental health looked like
after all those decades, including
Chernobyl, depending on when that happened
definitely was a key topic, right?
In, in terms of trying to address what
were legacy issues, but also what is
like the new environmental law field look
like for the newly independent states in
Central and Eastern European countries.
Victoria: So my bias being an American
and and frankly, just not knowing a
lot about Eastern Europe is I have an
assumption that it just that the laws
were not as rigorous as perhaps they
were in the U S and Europe, as they
approached environmental concerns.
Is that true?
Is that a fair statement?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: It's a
fair statement in that I remember,
it's funny you spring that up because
actually when I was working and I lived
in Russia, I was working in Russia
also in, in this was the late 90s
we couldn't find a term for the word
enforcement and you had to use basically
like several sentences of Russian to
convey what you mean by enforcement.
So it's true.
Yes, it was definitely the
strictness was not there, but also
the kind of the comprehensiveness
right around environmental
law, regulations and policies.
The basics were there.
They have codes, right?
Water code, all the different codes,
but in terms of kind of the depth
that you would say, here in the U.
S.
Certainly was not there,
but it was an emerging area.
Certainly.
Okay.
Victoria: And obviously we know
that, across the globe, the US
being no exception, that enforcement
has not always been consistent.
In fact, my husband and I just watched
the movie, Erin Brockovich last night.
And it's been many years since I
watched it and it's a great movie
and it's Oh yeah, a lot of nastiness
has happened from an environmental
perspective for a variety of reasons.
So I'm really glad number one,
I'm glad that we're living
in the times that we're in.
And as challenging as some of our
policies and getting agreement on
policies can be, I also recognize
it's, it is creating a better life and
environment for myself, my family, my
peers, the people around us, et cetera.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Absolutely.
Yeah, I will say if I can do a
shout out, I worked for a period
of time for the American Bar
Association, so they had a Central
and Eastern European law initiative
That they developed, which was really
about bringing, lawyers from the U.
S.
with, backgrounds and experiences
in different fields of law.
It wasn't just environmental
in terms of how to bring these
concepts and ideas around.
A law reform forward.
So it was great.
Working with judges, law students,
prosecutor offices, the whole
gamut of the legal system is
really incredible experience.
Victoria: That would be really awesome.
I can imagine.
And then you spent a big part of your
career most recently at the World Bank
and focusing in, I think a lot on water.
Is that right?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I did.
So I was managing what's called
the 2030 water resources group.
It was actually an initiative that
had been founded by the World Economic
Forum and then moved over in transition.
The World Economic Forum transitions
develops initiatives and then transitions
to other hosting institutions.
So it moved over the World Bank.
And then that's when I was hired to
come in and manage the 2030 Water
Resources Group, which has water in
the title, water is so cross cutting.
So worked with agriculture, technology,
textiles, mining companies, the whole
gamut, because water touches everything.
And the idea was really building
these multi stakeholder platforms.
As you said, the term multi
stakeholder platforms, it's an
important term, but a lot to say there
in terms of bringing governments.
Industry companies and organizations,
non government organizations
together to work on different issues.
In this case, it was related to
water, but it really was very,
cross cutting and very broad.
As I said, since water touches everything.
Victoria: Yeah.
All right.
So I was going to ask this question
later, but I'm going to bring
it forward in our conversation.
Building alignment is such a challenge.
Building alignment inside of a
company when, you're all working
theoretically for the same purpose
with the same interests is challenging.
And then building alignment
across multiple stakeholders
is is a real challenge.
And what have you found to be.
the real critical, significant things
that help to get to that alignment.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: So I would
say there are a few things in terms of
kind of building collaboration alignment.
One, is the one where people say, leave
the ego at your, at the door, right?
It's if you have an approach that's my
way or the highway, it's very difficult
to build collaborative initiatives, right?
Need to come with the mentality of,
my agenda may not be exactly the same
as every other organization's agenda,
but there's enough common issues
that we want to join on that we can
work together on those issues, right?
You don't have to have
everything in alignment, right?
If you think about, your spouses or
partners or close friends, it's not
that you agree on everything, right?
But there's enough something there, a core
that you agree on that you say, okay, we
want to have this collaboration, right?
And that's with organizations,
I would say the same as well.
The other I would say is patience.
Because it's a lot of times
I've found in my career.
You're taking two steps forward
and maybe five steps backwards.
Sometimes it seems like it's not
always like the steps forward.
There are sometimes steps back because
you need to look again at where is
that common agenda or there might be
differences of opinions that you just
need to work through or your approach
or methodologies or whatever it may be.
So having that patience is important.
And then I would say communication.
You really, for collaborative.
Initiatives to work, there needs to
be an open channel of communication.
And it's not to say that, you have to
put your, wear your heart on your sleeve
and kind of put everything out there.
But you need to be openly communicative
enough that when there are some
differences, you can work through them.
And that's where that
patience comes in as well.
But at the core, having some sort
of a common agenda to be able to
say, okay, we're going to work on
this together and we have certain
outcomes that we want to achieve.
And that's what we're going to put
foremost in this collaboration.
Victoria: Yeah.
I think that's great.
And I think as you maybe started
with certainly having this
belief of positive intent, that
everybody's got a positive intent in.
trying to achieve their outcomes and
their desired objectives may not be
aligned, but the positive intent that
they're doing this to make positive
progress is so critical because it helps
move past some of the disagreements.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Exactly.
And I said, it, like I said, it doesn't
mean that you have to agree on everything.
But there needs to be enough of that
core, and as you said, the positive
intent for what you want to achieve and
that you're willing to, when you have
those steps backwards, then you're set.
It's not that you give up
on the collaboration, right?
There's enough there.
You say, okay we're going to keep moving
forward and ultimately in the end,
hopefully for those positive outcomes.
Victoria: That's great.
So let's turn the focus
a little bit to ACC.
So you've been there
now a couple of years.
Tell us, what's your role?
What's your focus at ACC?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: So I
managing sustainability, which is great.
And we have one of the things I think
I would say that attracted me to ACC is
we have the foundation of responsible
care for the last 35 years, right?
That is the foundation around
safety and sustainability.
The chemical industry in
terms of advancing responsible
care I think is incredible.
That already is a foundation that's there.
And that really attracted me.
So coming in this role for
sustainability, which, has been a
evolving um, division within ACC.
Sustainability is still
very much evolving.
It's one of those things.
I've been working on it for 25, 28 years.
And I think in the last few
years, the pace of change is
unlike what it was 20 years ago.
I mean now, when I look back then
it's boy, it was like molasses in
terms of sustainability issues.
But it's really rapidly advancing.
And so it's ACC as well, to be
proactive and looking at these issues.
There are a number of areas that we
work on, of course, climate change.
That's always on everybody's
mind in terms of how do we
lower greenhouse gas emissions?
How do we catalyze
innovation and so forth?
The other areas around water which
is an area that I have focused a
lot on, even though my background
really, I've, worked on climate, air,
water, waste issues, water is always,
something there that is intriguing
in terms of addressing water issues.
And.
It's ACC, one of, within our
sustainability work is also
one of our priorities as well.
The other area of work
for us is around air.
So in improving and addressing air quality
is another area, which is again, I've
worked on, so it's really interesting
to be able to work with the chemical
industry and advancing air quality.
The other is around sustainable chemistry.
And how to.
Promote innovation in terms of a
sustainable chemistry going forward,
and then the last areas really
cross cutting is circularity, right?
There's a lot that's been over the
last few years around circularity.
What do we mean by circularity?
How do we move from something
that was linear to circular?
But how do you do that within
all aspects of circularity?
In terms of reuse, reducing and so
forth, as well as the innovation there.
So those are the key areas that
we're working on sustainability.
We work supporting our members.
So as new and emerging areas are coming
up as well, we're making sure that
we're tracking and looking to see how
we can support our members to really
be at the forefront of sustainability.
Victoria: And in sustainability to
say you've been working in this space
for, 25 years It's certainly evolved.
I agree with you that the pace of change
and the pace of interest in the focus
on sustainability has rapidly increased
at the same time I've talked with some
people who are like we're getting a
little tired of talking sustainability
first that there really has to be a
business case and that sustainability
needs to, it's critical and it's an
underpinning but it's not all of business.
And so I think striking that balance
is something that companies are
working on and maybe struggling with.
And maybe you see that when you
guys work with your constituents.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: That's true.
I would say that's true.
But I think if we look at
sustainability overall, if you think
about sustainability and kind of the
origins of sustainable development,
the definition, so forth, back then,
if you look at different processes,
especially UN processes and other
processes, it was really governments.
That we're discussing
sustainable development,
setting, agenda 21 and so forth.
And then the non governmental
organizations came in and
private sector came in later.
I have to say I was in New York
when the sustainable development
goals were being adopted, and I've
been involved in kind of the U.
N.
Commission on Sustainable Development
for, I guess 10 years at that point,
and it was the first time that the
private sector was actually addressed
by governments to say, as a key partner
or in as part of sustainability and
the sustainable development agenda.
And that wasn't that long
ago, if we think about it.
And I think the other challenge too
at that time was, many were, I'm not
saying everyone, but a lot of people
were looking at industry as kind
of an ATM machine, of just bring in
money to solve sustainability issues.
And that's not the right approach, right?
is part of the solutions, and I
see that even with our chemical
industry, our members really being
the enablers of a sustainable future.
But you're right.
It does take time to
build that business case.
And it looks different
for everyone, right?
We have small and medium sized members.
We have large members for
small and medium sized members.
There's a lot that people
are trying to manage.
There's, they don't have entire
sustainability departments.
And so it takes time and that's
where I think, that when I alluded to
kind of patients, important, right?
Because it does, you do have
to build that business case.
And even in my previous role at the
World Bank, when we were building
partnerships, we had to build the business
case, but it takes time because it can
look different for everyone involved.
Victoria: I Think that's a great point.
Because everybody's contributing
differently, coming at it
differently, has different resources.
So when you talk about the setting
of the sustainable development goals
and it's what the UN has, is it 22?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644:
20, there are 17 goals.
Victoria: That's it.
Okay.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: goals.
Yeah, because 17, actually number
17 is around partnerships, which
Victoria: Oh, which is
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: one.
Victoria: Yeah.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I had
been involved in the Millennium
Development Goals, actually.
And then the new development of
the Sustainable Development Goals.
And
Victoria: Yeah.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644:
were added as number 17.
Victoria: Makes perfect sense, really.
And it, did that, did those
get established around the same
time as the Paris Agreement, or
were they separate from that?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Oh, geez,
Victoria: So the Paris,
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: me too much
Victoria: oh my gosh, I'm
asking you history questions.
So we'll, so
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: dates.
Victoria: we're gonna,
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: have, I
Victoria: we're gonna,
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: have
come with a little cheat sheet
Victoria: I know, it's okay.
You can send it to me
later and we'll include it.
How's that?
The cheat sheet for when all
these agreements went in place.
But I think what's significant, in fact,
if I think about dates and we just look
ahead, certainly the Paris Agreement
talks about limiting Temperature increased
to less than two degrees centigrade.
It's tied to net I personally view
it as being tied to net zero by 2050.
There's obviously some goals around
2030 and I've never 100 percent clear
quite handedly on what's our 2030 goal.
And so there's a lot of
different goals out there.
You talk about this is a public private
partnership collaboration opportunity and
clearly the chemical industry, has to take
action on it is, and it is the key enabler
or a enabler of the energy transition of
achieving some of these net zero goals.
Can you talk about that a little bit
more and how you and how ACC sees this?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Yeah.
Absolutely.
The chemical industry, to me,
it's incredible because it's
really As you said, the energy,
the future, the enabler, right?
The chemical industry contributes,
in terms of looking at, if we look
at renewables even kind of wind and
solar and, electric vehicles and
batteries, like all of that depends on.
Chemistry, right?
And so bringing that aspect of
contributing to a lower emissions
future at the same time, also
looking at our own emissions, right?
How do we reduce our own emissions
and our processes and so forth?
And that's where ACC where
working our members in terms of
trying to see how we can do that.
Realistically, of course, right?
Because as we look at different
technologies, ACC we've been looking
how to advance carbon capture
utilization and storage, right?
Clean hydrogen, right?
Other aspects of different innovative
technologies that are all different
stages of innovation and development.
How do we drive forward on those
different abatement technologies
and the processes looking at,
In the future of nuclear, right?
And electrification, of course,
as a possibility in the future.
But we know from also our collaboration
and a lot of discussions we have, for
example, with agencies like Department of
Energy and others, these technologies are
still in processes of development, right?
And our members and ACC, we're looking
to see how do we do foster those
collaborations, that information sharing.
Because it will take time for
these technologies to be at the
point that they're really scalable.
And so that's where we're
really driving forward.
I would say both from the kind
of contributing to that renewable
future from the products, that the
chemical companies are promoting and
advancing, but also in terms of, Own
emissions reductions technologies.
You know what can be that mix
there in terms of driving for
that future, but it will again.
It comes back to that patience, right?
I think everybody wants something
overnight and it's that's not the case.
Victoria: And I think that's right.
And it's a big set of puzzle
pieces that all have to come
together at the same time.
And they're not going to come
together at the same time.
Maybe it's really if we think about
how we have to build a puzzle.
Build the outside edges first, right?
Find all your outer edges
and then start filling in.
And it seems like the climate
challenge, finding solutions to the
climate challenge and sustainability
is a bit like building a puzzle.
Different people have different
approaches on it, but at the end of
the day, it all has to come together.
Bit by bit, piece by piece.
And I know one of the challenges when I
talk to my clients and other companies is
sometimes it feels like there's a bit of
a misalignment between regulators and the
regulations that are in place, maybe the.
Timing and how they're assessing
new technologies that are needed,
critically needed to support the
future chemical industry that we
want, the future world that we want.
When we think about that.
How do you recommend people
tackle this challenge.
How can companies influence it?
How is ACC working to influence that?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644:
That's a great question.
And you're right.
It is a puzzle, right?
With different pieces coming
in at different times.
I think it comes back to the point I
made earlier about communication, right?
And this is one of the things that ACC
is working with different agencies to
see how can we bring industry to the
table so that everybody understands the
role of the chemical industry, right?
Because I think a lot is, people
just not understanding and the
role of the chemical industry.
And so it's fostering that first
that understanding and that
awareness of what it will take.
The chemical industry, as I said,
our members are actively working
to address sustainability issues.
But again, these things
can't be done in silos.
So how can we, work with different
agencies and others to bring industry to
the table to actually look at as you said,
the timing it is an evolution process.
If we look at different technologies, CCUS
or even clean hydrogen, I mentioned and
so forth even direct air capture, right?
It's excuse me, it's
an early stages, right?
It's not at the point, even
agencies will say it's not scalable.
To get to scale.
That's always the big challenge.
I found that throughout my career,
honestly, with different any types
of innovations or technologies,
people get stuck when going to scale.
And that's where I think the collaboration
is really critical because everyone
then can bring in those different
pieces of the jigsaw Puzzle together
as opposed to at different times.
And then, as you said, it doesn't
seem maybe misaligned or it's
one depends on the other, right?
Especially if you're trying to drive
innovation and certainly for American
Chemistry Council, we want to make sure
we have a strong chemical manufacturing
sector in the United States, right?
And so how do we advance
policies and initiatives?
To make sure that is the case, right?
That the U S is in the lead when
it comes to a strong chemical
industry that contributes to all
the products that everyone wants to
have in their daily lives, right?
Victoria: Yeah, I think it's right.
And I think patience is the key.
It doesn't feel like we have a lot
of time though, so just as we were
talking to get started here we are
basically at the end of the first
quarter and boy, that was fast.
And soon we're going to be at 2030.
Which is where a lot of targets
are and not too far away is 2050
in the grand scheme of things.
It's maybe you have to slow
down to go fast, right?
There's that whole theory, but it
feels like we have to keep marching
along because the clock keeps ticking.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: No, it's true.
We have to we can't sit back and rest.
That's for sure.
We have to keep innovation.
And I know with our ACC members from
the smallest members to our largest
members are dedicated and research and
development to really bring the newest
when it comes to technologies and
processes for a sustainable future, right?
And a healthy environment especially
as our members, work in communities,
in, in engaging communities and
so forth in a healthy environment,
but it is that one of Be realistic.
Don't look too far to the future.
And then you miss how you put
those pieces together now, right?
And I think, it's that one of that kind
of trying to trace, stay present, right?
You're learning from what's happened
in the past and you're looking to the
future, but really staying present to
see what do we need to do today that will
have that domino effect for the future.
And that's not always easy
to do, because you're right.
We're always saying, okay, we need to,
we're like hamsters in the wheel rushing.
We want to get there fast
and we will get there.
And even for me, as I said, we've been
talking here and I probably shouldn't
have admitted how long I've been working
on sustainability, it's amazing where we
are today compared to, 20 some years ago.
Right.
Victoria: it's very different.
I first, I remember when I first really
became aware of sustainability as
sustainability, and I was working at Shell
and we had a sustainability, all of a
sudden we had that sustainability people.
And I remember saying
Oh, I don't understand.
I don't understand.
What is it that you're talking about?
I don't understand.
Of course, I'm not sure
that I fully vocalized it.
Cause of course in the corporate world,
you can't always vocalize when the,
those under misunderstandings are,
but it took quite a while because for
those people that are working closely
with it, it's easier to understand,
but it's really just gotten into
everyday vocabulary for business in
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: very true
Victoria: The last five years.
Up until then.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I agree you.
Victoria: It was not an
everyday conversation,
strategic decision, et cetera.
It was understood.
We understood the environmental aspects.
We understood safety,
We didn't necessarily know how to put
it all together and I kind of group
sustainability is putting it all together.
And that may be.
Incorrect as well in some ways because
it's got a, but it's got a lot of
tentacles and how it all connects.
But it really, until the last five years,
it has not been an everyday conversation
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644:
No, that's true.
If you look at even the admin
growth of chief sustainability
officer positions, right?
Or even I was just reading the other day
about an ESG controller position, right?
These positions have been growing
only in the last few years.
If those were not there 20
years ago, I can vouch for that.
and it will be something different
in the next 5, 10, 20 years, right?
It's going to continue to evolve.
That's exactly right.
And you're right with sustainability.
It is one of those areas.
And I think this is where, even when
we look at the sustainable development
goals, it's been such an evolution
because they yes, they stand on their
own, but it's the interconnectedness
that's really important, right?
As we touched on water, right?
Climate and water are related, right?
And so you could say, okay,
I'm only focused on climate
or I'm only focused on water.
But at some point,
They're connected, right?
Victoria: Absolutely.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: And it's trying
to at least acknowledging that, right?
The And so I think that will, as you
said, will also transform the positions
of the future as these more of kind of the
breaking down the silos, I think happens.
Victoria: Yeah, absolutely.
And so at The Chemical Summit last year,
you made a statement along the lines, and
I'm probably paraphrasing a bit, that most
natural disasters are related to water,
either too much of it or too little of it.
Can you elaborate on that?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Sure.
Yeah.
No.
And this is where climate comes in, right?
From climate, right?
Impacts.
is then I won't go in deep on the
hydrological cycle or that because that'll
probably take a 20 hour show maybe.
But the impacts from climate then
are seen then either scarcity
to little water in many places.
Or too much water in terms of floods.
And so this is, we're seeing more and
more of that and it does vary, some
regions of the globe where you've
seen scarcity for periods of time.
Now we're seeing lots of water,
and other areas that have had,
flooding on an ongoing basis
now are experienced scarcity.
So it doesn't mean that it's always,
exactly cookie cutter approach
either, but it is the climate.
Impacts are felt in water
either too much or too little.
And this is where I think we're going
to be seeing more of that as well.
But understanding that it does
vary over time and regions.
And it's really trying to be adaptive
to that as that becomes more frequent.
Victoria: Yeah.
And is there something that
we do to influence it other
than continuing to work on our
sustainability and climate measures?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I think so.
One of the things actually I will
say that also really attracted
me to ACC was actually the
proactive approach on water issues.
So ACC we've been working with our members
to look at water stewardship and water
risks because water is a shared resource.
It's not one of those things where
you can look in your own kind of
For walls and say, okay, this is
the only thing I'm focused on.
And so has been working with our members
and we also have a partner, the water
council we've been working with to support
our members and looking at water risks
proactively, to do an assessment, look
at your water risks and then develop.
Mitigation approaches to
address those risks through
a water body risk assessment.
So it's a step by step process.
And what it does, I think, too,
especially, is it helps our
members also start engage with
stakeholders in the watershed.
Because again, water is a shared resource.
And so it really depends on engaging with
those other actors, those stakeholders,
like water utilities, for example and
other organizations in a watershed
to understand where First, at a very
basic level, because again, I know this
is not a whole show on water, but it
really first understanding what are
those future demands for water, right?
We've had our members looking,
for example, in watersheds where,
there's a lot of urban growth.
So you're going to have a lot more demand
for water as those urban areas grow.
And so how do the utilities manage
that where there's already existing
industry or there's also an industry
that wants to grow, for example.
Or you have agriculture, right?
There and agriculture actually
uses, considerable amount of water.
So how do you manage all of those demands
and plan in a way that it, addresses
that and also creates mitigation plans
in cases where they might be, too
little water or too much water as well.
So we've been working actively
with our members on that.
We're all actively working on support.
Our members also had to engage with
stakeholders in the watersheds.
Understanding that, does require
time and effort as well in terms
of engaging with stakeholders.
But it's really important if we're
trying to really look at those water
risks and some places, our members
may not have a high level of risk.
But it is at least saying,
okay, in the future that could
change and to be ready for that.
Victoria: Yeah, makes a lot of sense.
In fact for the long time, really,
when I thought about water issues
for the chemical industry, and
first, certainly for my own personal
experience working in manufacturing,
working in big businesses it was
really around the cleanliness, right?
The environmental characteristics,
making sure that we were You know,
if we're taking water out of the
river, we're putting very clean
water back into the river, et cetera.
So this whole issue of too much, too
little thinking about watersheds I know
it's always probably been there but it's
certainly becoming a bigger focus area.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Yeah.
And I should say you, you
touched on a really good point
in terms of drinking water.
This is also, I overlooked this because
it's the foundation of chemistry is
making sure that we have drinkable water.
It's like we always take it, it's
just for granted, like it's thanks to
chemistry that we have drinkable water.
And, but at the same time, as I
said, these other water risks are
maybe growing in the regions is
how to engage with stakeholders.
But thank you for my, yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
The foundation of having drinkable
water is thanks to the chemistry.
Victoria: Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's a good, it's a good
reminder for all of us.
And I had the opportunity to
go to the Hoover Dam last week.
So that was the first time ever
we were my kids had spring break.
So we took a vacation out to
Vegas and did a mixture of nature
and neon, as I like to call it.
And first time visiting the Hoover Dam,
which was fascinating because one I hadn't
appreciated is we've already talked about
just the collaboration and the patience
and the ingenuity to get to that point.
And frankly, the patience, right?
The patience,
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644:
it comes back to that.
Victoria: It took a long time to get that.
And yet it is considered, it's
certainly foundational for power
in in the Western part of the U.
S.
And also what I guess I had not
fully appreciated and then I thought
about it, Oh yeah, this makes sense.
Part of the reason they did this was
of course, terrible flooding in the
Colorado river that persisted over,
probably hundreds of years would
be my guess or thousands of years.
And so being able to channel that
water effectively to create power,
to control the downstream, et cetera.
And of course it created Lake Mead,
which now is at all time lows.
So we've gone from, it was.
the dam and Lake Mead and that entire
infrastructure was creating during
a period of abundance of water.
And now there's certainly a
shortage and we've turned to
more of a scarcity of water.
And, there's probably a lot of reasons
behind that, both climate, use, et cetera.
So it's it was really, It was cool.
I think my kids even thought it was cool.
Even though people say, don't, don't
assume your kids are going to like it.
We all liked it and the views
are good, but the science behind
it was really cool as well.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Oh, good.
Yeah.
And again, there, as you said,
this was developed, period of
time where, water availability was
different and it's changed now.
And again, that's again
where, that collaboration
remains still central, right?
To address as that is the shifting
climate, what that means in terms of
the region and reduced water levels.
And absolutely that collaboration
is still critical going forward.
.
Victoria: So Karin, we're in women's
history month as we're recording this.
So I feel like I want to add this,
ask this question of you as a woman
who has really been successful in an
international career At a time where
perhaps women weren't as successful
as certainly in the early days in
international roles and you've worked
with a lot of companies and individuals
and governments around the globe.
What's been significant?
What's the secret of success?
What surprised you?
What advice would you have
maybe in terms of that?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644:
What a good question.
Especially in this month, I, again
again, I think I keep coming back
to that patience honestly I remember
actually, I was in the world summit
on sustainable development in 2002
and I was on all these panels and
it was all panels of men and me.
There was one panel, it was
10 of us and nine men and me.
Victoria: They were probably
older than you, right?
So you were young and a young female
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Much,
Victoria: panels with
esteemed colleagues and peers.
Yeah.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: were
all, incredible professionals
in their careers, engineers.
Incredible.
And, but yes, I was the lone woman there.
And I would say for me was
again, having that patience,
but also perseverance, right.
of, you know, I, Feeling that
you know what you know, right?
And there's a lot that I don't know.
Obviously dates.
I'm terrible with dates.
Victoria: Keep that in mind.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: But there's
a big understanding what you know
and what you don't know and then
having the passion for it, right?
That's what I saw certainly in
the World Summit on Sustainable
Development through that whole process.
Actually, it was a colleague of mine.
We brought water because water
was missing in the agenda and
we had a passion about water.
Addressing water issues, even
though I was working more
broadly on environmental issues.
And we were committed
saying, you know what?
Water needs to be here in the agenda.
We're going to fight for it.
And I remember the first time in that
process, we got two paragraphs on water.
But there had been zero before, right?
So even that was a success.
So I would say it is really combination
of that patience and passion.
I would say it's the peas, right?
Patience.
Perseverance and passion,
Victoria: There's a lot of life lessons
there that we can all remember, right?
That's probably a good model.
Patience, perseverance, and passion.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: And I
would say the other is, just to know
that it is always changing, right?
The world is changing, right?
In terms of now you see the number of
women in different roles is incredible.
In, as chief sustainability
officers or, even as CEOs and so
forth it's definitely evolving.
And so it is, it's definitely
evolving, but it is, you know,
those would be my three P's I
Victoria: yeah, I'm going
to, I think that's right.
And I would reflect on the same.
Similarly for me, I like the
perseverance piece, right?
So I many times I was the only woman
presenting in a room in a senior
leadership meeting in what have you.
And I was really fortunate.
I spent a big part of my career at Shell
and there was, Shell's done a great job.
job of advocating, developing
and promoting women.
So I'd never felt always truly like the
only, but you'd be the only in the moment.
And I would recognize it, but
I'd be like, okay, here we go.
It doesn't stop you.
It's that perseverance piece.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Yeah,
Victoria: think there's always it's,
it's hard to get certainly when
we think about in technical roles,
like as engineers and scientists
and STEM roles, if you're graduating
25 percent women in those fields.
You're never going to get 50 percent
women in engineering if the pool
that you're pulling from is 25%.
So there's this aspect of it is changing,
but it's only can change to the extent
that the feeder pool changes as well.
And so I think we have to continue to
develop that and promote and encourage it.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Absolutely.
Yeah.
No, and I, that's one of the things too,
also ACC, if many may not realize, we
have the Future STEM Scholars Initiative,
FOSSI, which is providing support for
students at historically black colleges
and universities to study for four years
with the idea that, they would come out
as chemical engineers, but also it's
not just the support for the studies,
but also mentorship and so forth.
And that, I think that's what I'm
thrilled to see ACC doing because, it's
one of those things when we look at
these issues, it's not just a matter
of providing financial resources.
It is that mentorship, right?
If I look back, even in my own
career, there are people that I
would often go back to, especially
as, a woman in the field of Oh, I
just need a little bit of support
here of am I doing the right thing?
Am I, you come to crossroads in
your life, like I knew I had a
few in my life where I was like,
should I go that way or that way?
And I'd go back for some, you know,
just talk to some more senior people who
I respected and who would give me the
time of day to talk to and knowing that
I was still very early in my career.
And this is with FOSSI is including
that mentorship, I think, is
incredible and fabulous because
that's just as important as the
resources to be able to do the studies
Victoria: Absolutely.
I think we sometimes take it for granted.
Certainly, my kids, your kids, if you
have any, if we have the advantage
of having parents that can coach and
mentor and encourage, and yet many
people don't, I certainly, I look
back, my parents, they did encourage,
they were great encouragers, but
they didn't have direct experience
and couldn't mentor in the same way.
And so having third party mentors whether
via FOSSI in a program like that, whether
at your company is so critical to have
examples that you can look at people that
can support you, that can engage with you
and help you talk through those options,
see what the paths may be, provide
that mentorship is really important.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644:
is really important.
Yeah, it's funny you say that because
my parents, we were immigrants,
so neither of my parents spoke
English when we came to the U.
S., so wouldn't say they were
really, I thank them for everything
they did, but, in terms of kind
of that pure mentorship, no.
but it's funny, I do have
one child and maybe, I don't
know, I maybe over mentored.
Maybe that's the problem now.
Victoria: That is a challenge and, maybe
I'll mentor your kid your child and you
can mentor mine because they don't always
like to listen to mom and dad anyway.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: Exactly.
Exactly.
Victoria: Awesome.
So Karin, what's on the
horizon for the rest of 24?
We're here at the end
of the first quarter.
What should we be looking forward to as
it relates to ACC and sustainability as
we look ahead for the rest of the year?
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644: I would say,
in the areas that I described early
on first, we're keep advancing those
because again, it is keep putting that
foot forward, especially on climate.
Driving the innovations and the
advancements and the different
technologies I think is really important
and something that we're focusing on ACC.
How can we drive?
As I mentioned, a strong U.
S.
Chemical manufacturing sector is central.
And so that really for us in 2024 and
beyond and making sure that our members.
At all the different whatever size
they may be small, medium or large
are able to take their strengths and
contribute in a way for that strong U.
S.
chemical manufacturing sector
where in a rapidly sustainability
evolving area as well as these
areas that are rapidly evolving.
So it's really making sure that
we're here to serve our members to
be as best informed as well prepared
for the future that they can be.
Victoria: Awesome.
Thank you, Karin.
This has been a great conversation.
I've really enjoyed it.
Thanks for joining us
today on The Chemical Show.
karin_1_03-18-2024_130644:
Thank you for having me.
Victoria: Absolutely.
And thank you everyone for listening.
Keep listening, keep following, keep
sharing, and we'll talk to you again soon.
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