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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Welcome to Beyond the Message, the podcast where we take the weekly teaching at Christ Community Chapel and we bring it into your week. Each week, we sit down together as friends and as colleagues, and we think about and reflect, laugh a little bit, and figure out how to live out what it is we're learning. If you didn't yet get to see the sermon or hear it, drop down to the description, you'll find a link to it there, and then I hope you'll come back and join us on this conversation. My name is Stacey, and I'm joined today by Canaan Coffey, hello, hello, Ken Prabucki, and Holly Diakandru. Welcome, guys. This week, we're talking about gossip, whispers, all of that. Proverbs 26:20. But before we get into it too much, Pastor Joe talked a little bit about movies. It was in the context of kind of gossip being spread about a movie that's not actually his favorite. So I thought I would ask all of us, what is a movie that you were slightly embarrassed to admit that you, that you really enjoy? And then that'll need a tiny bit of explanation. Should I, shout out your, your shirt, though, first? Yeah. I don't. If you're watching this. If you're watching this and you're, you're wondering if I just went to get a drink and missed my face entirely. I, I, we just came out of a baptism service, which is awesome. I got a hug. Also awesome. Didn't bring a change of shirt, so that's okay. So back to the movie. Give me a pass this time. Who wants to start something? I think Ken should probably start. Ken should start. Ken, start. Thanks, man. wet, slightly wet shirt. Thanks. I have a couple answers, but I'm gonna go with one, which is, there's a movie came out in the 1980s called the Neverending Story. It's iconic, I think, for anyone of my generation. And there's a scene in the movie. So I love the movie. And it's just this movie. Yeah. It doesn't really hold up well over time, so maybe I don't know that I'm embarrassed that I loved it, but. But it is. I. It holds a place in my heart. There is one scene where I just. I remember losing it when I saw it the first time. And every time since, it is when, Atrey use one of the characters, and he has a horse, and he loves this horse. And they are. They are, like, they are like soulmates, really. I mean that they are Horse. And, yes, the horse following. I haven't actually seen this movie, so you're doing a really good job. I'm painting the painting. After I'm done with the soulmates, the horse drowns in what's called the swamp of sadness, because it just gives up. hopelessness has entered the world. It is destroying the world. And this horse slowly sinks into the mud till all you can see is its opaline eye just looking up at a treyu. And then it disappears. Oh, this is horrible. It is horrible. So I. This is your never ending, so. No, no. it's a movie. He's embarrassed that he. I would say, 42 years old. Well, I think it may be slightly embarrassed that I cry in a scene in a movie back from the 1980s about a horse in a swamp, but it is visceral. Okay. Okay. Wow. Okay. Holly, how about you? I'm gonna say the Twilight series. That is on in my household a lot. That makes me feel better, actually. I saw it a long time ago, and then just recently, it was on somewhere, and I thought, I'm gonna go back and watch all of them. And, you know, they're not great. No, they're not great. And the special effects are. You know, they're a little bit rough, but I don't know, it gets me. I feel like I've seen The only scene I've seen, like, but I've seen it seven times. Is like, the. When they play baseball. Oh, yeah, the thunder. They can only go in. It's a thunderstorm. I've never seen. This is the series about super healthy relationships, right? Do I have that right? Vampires. Vampires. They don't really. Yeah, there's some werewolves. Werewolves. I understand. Okay. Yeah. Craig stopped 10 of my problems in the swab. Off with that sadness. That's right. Judgment over here. I think I need to watch that now just to understand you a little bit more like it. Kanan. Oh, the Twilight series. No, no, no, no. Okay, you need to. Okay. I want to hear your movie, Kanan. I'll start off by saying I'm not embarrassed that this is one that I love. I'm not embarrassed, but I think people would probably think. But Nacho Libre is like, oh, dear. Oh, dear. It's like. It honestly might be top five for me. You don't get to. Oh, dear. Huh? It's, Kaden. Jack Black. My whole perspective of you is changing. Why? That's kind of the point of this. It's the, you know, bring it in. I will Watch that on repeat, and it'll make me laugh every time. Really? Oh, yeah. Every time. Okay. you need. Maybe we need to watch it sometime soon. I don't. I don't think that's right for me. I am a sucker for a good Christian movie. I am going to tell you, and I know how to do it. The safest possible answer. No, no, no. I think they are not. So it's not a good Christian movie. M. So the movie in particular I thought of is Miracles from Heaven. I've not seen this one either. It's a girl, and she falls down a tree, and she is all the. Yep. All I'm saying, though, is I now. I did. Now this is gonna make people sad. My daughter had some medical issues when she was little that paralleled a lot of what went on in this movie. I mean, I, like, ugly cried for the majority of this movie over and over again. Now, we can't make fun of you, Stacey. That's how this rolls. I. It's like. Okay. Anyways. Well, that's good. Thanks for sharing those things. Proverbs 26, 20. Pivot into talking about gossip. Hard pivot. Let's go hard pivot. okay, so the proverb itself reads, for lack of wood, the fire goes out. And where there is no whisperer, quarreling ceases. as Pastor Joe taught through this, we're going to talk about whispering a lot because it really is a good correlation that that whisper is actually gossip. It's you. You. You kind of quiet your voice. You're saying it so other people don't hear. And, that's obviously what the proverb uses. So his points refers the power of a whisper, and that being kind of the symptom. And looking at kind of, evaluating if we are whispering. Am I recruiting allies? Am I trying to build a case against someone? Am I trying to add fuel to a fire? and then the second point was the reason we whisper. This was super powerful. I felt, that there are three reasons, and I know I identified with this, is that for significance. And you feel like you possess information other people don't have. Superiority kind of comparison. Feel better about yourself because of a situation or a person and sense of belonging, kind of that recruiting allies, but also being a part of an insider's information. And then really the secret to becoming water instead of wood. The cure for that is the last point. And kind of. I loved it because Pastor Joe kind of walked through different places in Scripture where we see Jesus undoing the. You know, when we misplace our worship and want to have that sense of significance, significance rooted in something false. That instead, that it's really rooted in Christ and in what we have in Him. And, looking at some different places in Scripture where we look at that. So to start off, and talk about this, first of all, I think gossip is a little bit of a slippery one. we, you know, and I'll. I'll probably ask a question about this in a little bit. Like, we can. We can kind of like excuse it, cover it up and saying I need to process with somebody or things like that. and. And it's hard to just put our finger on. It's not as easy to own as a sin, maybe as some other things, or maybe don't do that. Well, but thinking about the proverb, there's an image of feeding a fire, why do you think, you know, that's kind of the imagery used? And also, is there other, like, imagery that you think of when you think about gossip and how it works? So let's just start there. Ken, look like you got something to talk about. Well, the image of a fire, I think, is doubly apt here because, we are reminded in Scripture that we can set the world on fire with the power of our words, first of all, and I have more often than I'd like to admit, been on the giving end of setting somebody on fire directly. And then I think about how much more so we do damage when we don't even do the courtesy, let's say, of saying it directly to them. And we are setting a world on fire behind their back. Yeah. And we are just. And I just think that, to me, that is what I think about when. And that's why I think this is such an apt way of describing it. M. Yeah, I think the fire, for me, it stood out because I know how quickly a fire can go from being a small fire to a huge fire. And I think that's very true with gossip. And even the idea of it's really there or it's not there. And I don't think there's really a middle ground that we can, We can't really toe a line with gossip. I think it really. It's. It's either present or it's not. Yeah, it's either burning or not. There's no in between of like, is it actually happening? Is it not actually happening? And I think it's pretty clear, like, we. We know when it is, but I'm sure we'll talk, talk through A little bit more of that. Yeah, well. And even the idea of a fire is that a fire burns something. So even when the water is applied or the fire goes out, it's still burned. There's still a damage. And so that like, really, makes me think about our words and how, you know, like the old tube of toothpaste analogy where it's like, squeeze them out and you can't get it m back, you can't get em back in. And so even, you know, if you're like, oh, I made it right, it's okay. It's like the words have already been said. And I read somewhere that it takes like 10 positive comments to like, overdo a negative one. And so that's kind of like that where it's like the fire has burned and that negative thing that you said is gonna stick for a long time. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I do think there's other. I was thinking about the analogy of even thinking like, about a virus or things like that and how like, you know, had this spreading nature of it, but also like the damage that it does to everyone else around it and which a fire does the same thing. Right. I mean, but it's. It. I don't think just the person sharing the gossip or even just the person that the gossip is about are the two people damaged. Like, it obviously does damage as it kind of takes root because we're thinking about things, doing things, saying things that we shouldn't be saying in other people or, you know, can do all sorts of things inside of us. So, yeah, I think it is just really powerful and it is a reminder of. It made me go back and read a little bit in James and thinking through just the power of the tongue. And man, I am so bad at, I think, giving that the attention that it needs to. So, let's jump m to those three things that Pastor Joe talked about being, just the different reasons why we whisper. the significance. Giving yourself a sense of significance, superiority or. Or a sense of belonging. Which of these do you think is maybe the strongest temptation for most people? And then is there one that you would say, oh, man, I can remember a time I felt this, or I, you know, experienced this. Don't you think, don't you think it can change situationally or seasonally? Like in one season, you know, I might be looking for significance or belonging or I think the idea of needing allies is something that really hits. And so I was trying to figure out like, which one is that Is, that Maybe a sense of belonging. Like, I want people to be in my corner and on my side. So I want to say, like, oh, this happened. I want to justify it so that I feel okay and that someone can say to me, like, oh, yeah, they shouldn't have said that to you. Oh, yeah, that was wrong. Or that shouldn't have happened, or, you know, whatever the situation is. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of the people I'm around, and I think for a long time I fell into the significance. I think it's just we naturally have a desire to be seen, to be known somehow to fit in. And I think they all kind of. They work together for sure. Yeah. But I think for me, it was with the superiority. There's like this. Yeah. Just an idea of you being, Yeah. You've. Having access to certain information, I think is just, Yeah, I think what. There's a phrase that you said that. That made me think. Think about that. But, yeah, I think, oh, you talked about justifying. Yeah. And for me, I think sometimes I would rationalize things and be like, oh, yeah, that's. That's fine. Like, and you begin to play that game, and you play that game too much, and you get way in the weeds of it, and it becomes just kind of a natural reaction to the way you do things. Well, you don't wake up being like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna gossip. I'm whisper, you're hurting. Or you all of a sudden feel this need where you're like, I need to matter here. I need to say something that affects this situation. And it's sneaky. Like you said, slippery. That's the word you use. Yeah, yeah. As I hear you, to unpack. It helps me even kind of. What's the measure of knowing? Is this gossip? I think probably one of the measures is, the response that you get from the person that you're sharing with, when you don't like what they have to say. And you're like, well, no, I don't think you quite understand. I don't think you quite understand. At that point, you're not looking for someone to help you process. You're not looking for a way to mend something. You're looking for an ally. And the moment someone doesn't agree with your perspective, top to bottom, and you feel the need to push back, to bring them into your corner, I think that's a threshold that gets crossed. Maybe it'll be one way to think about it. Yeah. I resonate with the significance one, a lot. I think it generally is always going. Makes me feel better about myself that I know something or that I have information that is not known by others. And that's so ugly for me to admit or to say, but I think it's true. I think that's what drives. If there's a time that I'm talking about something or someone or that it's, me somehow wanting to feel better about myself. But, yeah, I mean, I was thankful for Joe, like, being able to draw that out of when I'm thinking about gossip, because I had never thought about that more than just like, oh, isn't gossip just. You're just talking about things and stirring the pot a little bit, or, But not really the what's happening inside of me that's causing or driving that motivation and the need for it to become undone. Ideally in Christ. Right. So even the way he called it a whisper instead of gossip, I felt like was really convicting because it was like, when do you whisper? You know, when you don't want somebody else to hear. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that's convicting. Yeah. I just. While I was sitting here thinking about a time many, many years ago that I. I wrote something. Put something in writing that was about a person, and they were copied on the email. And in that moment, M. I mean, I'm just thinking about if you don't think you're gossiping or you don't think you're actually doing something wrong. And then all of a sudden, how my response, what I felt like to realize, what have I just done? Because, no, you know, and again, I mean, I'm maybe, even making it sound worse than it was, but it was really bad because it damaged that relationship significantly. Because it was information that, again, I wasn't being like, this, like, really horrible, horrible, gossipy thing. But nonetheless, it was something that I wasn't gonna say to this person's face that I was saying to someone else. And I mean, that I think, is an indicator of going, okay, I can play that back now and go, ooh. If I was always able to go, am I saying this to this person's face or would I not say this to their face? Well, even in that, if you're on the receiving end, you find yourself wondering, this is the one thing I know they said about me. That's right. What else are they saying? What else has been said? M. And that is. I mean, talk about trust being broken. M. Right. That's. That's rough. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, when I think about gossip, I think I mentioned this at the beginning. I feel like it's something that as Christians especially, we easily kind of justify or don't acknowledge that it's happening. we might say, oh, I need to process this information with a friend to help me work through something. or I'm just sharing information for, you know, I want to pray for them. I don't even know. It could be couched in all sorts of things. So, I mean, just wanted to talk about that a little bit. How. I think maybe, maybe the question is more how as Christians, can we be more honest about this, about this as a sin? And, you know. Yeah, I also think, like, why is. Why even. Is it a sin? That is like we so easily kind of try and justify. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. Just you remind me when Joe mentioned the story in the Bible about the two men praying. Yeah, yeah. I guess you're gonna say something hard to say to somebody's face. I was reminded of my middle daughter praying at our table at dinner. And it started off innocently enough. Thank you for this day. Thank you for. Please be with our family. Please help my older sister to be kinder because her heart is so unkind. Help her, she's saying with eyes closed, seemingly pious. my oldest is just boiling across the table, you know, just like weaponizing the prayer. Weaponizing the prayer. But yeah, yeah, okay. So, yeah, just let's talk about that a little bit as far as why do we justify it so easily or why do we not really think of it as such a bad thing? M. Or it's so easy for us to do as Christians. Well, I didn't quite answer the second one. No, so I can answer now. It's significance, I think, primarily for me. And, you know, I think you guys kind of know enough of my story. But suffice to say that so often I'm really just a 10 year old kid, who just wants his dad to say that he loves him. I mean, that in some ways is how I carry that. And I think for me, I will at my worst, I will scrap and claw for significance anywhere I can find it. And if this is one avenue, I'll take it at my worst, because in that moment, I have forgotten who or what makes me who I am. My identity is being forged by outside forces and I have forgotten to listen to what God says about me. Which is why the story about the woman and come see a man who told me everything I've ever done but he still loves me. And it's like, yeah, actually, my identity is forged in him. My significance, comes from what he says about me. I don't need to build a case. I don't need to convince people. I don't need to have a coalition. I got an army of one in my corner, and that should be enough. Yeah. How do you think, though, like, we can maybe, as Christians, be more honest about gossip. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think we do cover it up as, like, processing or a prayer request. We laughed, but I actually think that happens. I do too. Yeah. I just think it sounds better, right? It doesn't sound, like, quite as ugly as gossip really is. and I was thinking about this question for a long time because I actually think, like, processing with wise counsel, I think is good. but I think who you're doing it with matters and why. Yes. And so, you know, you said something at the beginning, like, if the person on the other end is just gonna always agree with you or fuel that fire, like, oh, I can't believe they did that. That's not the right person. Right. You need to make sure that the person on the other end, is gonna say, like, have you talked to them about that? Hey, listen to how you sounded. Like, replay that. Could you see their perspective? That. I mean, that's a good friend. Maybe that's the person that you're processing with that pushes you to say, like, oh, you know what? Maybe I was out of line too. I need to ask for forgiveness. I need to do something. Yeah. I think the questions you ask are the biggest. You know, there's been. I forget. There's a. I mean, a certain point in my life when I chased significance, wanted to know everything and anything for no reason. But there's a point in my life where I remember somebody saying, like, when I was like, I don't know if I should say this or I don't know if I should tell you. And they, like, stopped me and said, you don't have to. Yeah. Like, oh, wait, like, maybe. Maybe I don't. Maybe I don't have to share this information. And so now I try to use that because I think it's a way of giving them an opportunity to say, hey, you don't actually have to share that information with me. But also, it's. I think the Lord's worked in my heart a lot of just being like, you don't need to know these things that are actually kind of insignificant, but you just want a Little bit of, Yeah. Belonging, whatever it may be. Yeah. And also maybe being on the receiving end of gossip. I would say, can you do this really well is. I feel like you, you will often, if there's, you know, I will say, hey, how about I want you in the next 24 hours, go talk directly to that person. Let me know how it goes. But you owe it to that person, as a Christian, to work through this together with them. so I do think, like, whether it is, yeah, you don't need to tell me that or I don't need to hear that. Two also going like, hey, I know you processed this with me and I understand maybe you needed that, but now you owe it to that person to go directly to them. Yeah. And I think there's even more. Again, it's situationally based. But even saying, hey, does this person, like, would this be a person? Would this person be okay with you? Yeah. Sharing this with you? Sharing this. Yeah. because I think there's. Yeah. Getting caught on the other end of it is like when you hear that somebody shared something about you, it's like, oh, man, you know, that's. That's hard. So. And it is sin. So I think even I think sometimes I just don't realize the harm that it does. And I don't know. I mean, I don't think about that. The fact that like, this is something that is. Is gonna separate me from others and from Christ by just continuing to pursue senseless, you know, trying to pursue significance in a way I don't need to, you know. So I also think, you know, there's a difference between. Let me processing it with one person, a close friend, an ally, or like, you know, I'm gonna process this with seven people. You know what I mean? That's like. Should be a trigger of like, That's not processing. That's more gossip. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think just processing with wise counsel, which means somebody that can withstand and doesn't, that isn't just going to bend like you said, and is willing to set you straight. But also when I'm sitting down with somebody I trust, I try very hard and I really do try to give it this preface now. Hey, I'm working through some things. I'm convinced some of what I'm working through is sinful and is a me problem. I'm having trouble figuring out and locating where it is. I need you to help call that out and help me. Help me do what I need to do to make it right or take the Steps that I need. Yeah, well, that. That's a heart posture. That sets that up really well. Cause you're saying, like, hey, I'm not telling you this story about this person. I'm telling you. Cause I know I have said I have stuff to tell and I can find it. The point of the story is not about the person. The point of the story is finding out where I'm lacking in that. Yeah, that's good. So just to pivot and wrap things up a little bit. you know, really, the. The landing spot for this is the fact that our significance, our belonging, our need to not be superior is rooted in looking to Christ. so I guess, I mean, just take a moment if you have thoughts on. What does that look like for you? What does it look like to say, I see and find my significance. I find my belonging, in Christ and not in other. Misplaced worship. Right. Misplaced worship. And that we are, you know, seeking when we're gossiping. I think go for it. I think for me, it came back to. You mentioned it earlier, talking about identity. And I think I found a lot of it in when I was in my high school, college years and belonging, significance, kind of. Kind of that whole mixture. but for me, just coming back to my identity, I'm a child of God. I'm a son of God. And my parents did something for me growing up that helped help me remember. Like, it would always tell me, you're the only Canaan coffee. Like, and I think that was significant. Yeah. For my parents. But it also, remember, like, help me align with who God sees me as. And so recognize I don't need these extra things in my life to provide that or, find a, quick satisfaction from saying something else. So that's just something I keep. I'll replay a lot just for myself. Yeah. And if I'm looking, you know, for a place to belong or to make sure that there's people who accept me. Like, the most, like, common bond that I have is that we're all like daughters and sisters in Christ. You know what I mean? So it's like, that's the bond. Like, we're sinners saved by grace, and we belong to the same family of God. And it's like, okay, that should be the common thread instead of any other ally that I'm seeking to belong. I just. I guess I can sense inside myself when I am, doing better in this area or not. And there is this kind of spiraling or unwinding of, like, grasping for things that are outside of myself, but outside of Christ really, you know, So, I don't know. I mean, I think figuring out for yourself when you are, you know, it's not always just checking the box of having your quiet time. Okay, wait, I'm in a good spot, right? But really being able to settle and rest in Christ and know my identities in Him, I honestly, being a part of weekly worship services and all of those things help. I am so wired to, like, I, if I find him not filling myself up and surrounding myself with worship or with other things that are bringing me back to, resting in Christ is when I will, whether it's because of stress or other things, become so kind of untangled up in other things. But, yeah, I think I was in a meeting last week and I was just trying to help somebody unwind some lies. And I just said, look, as a pastor, one of my most important jobs is to tell you not what I say about you or what I think, but what God has to say about you. And this is what God has to say about you. And as we have this conversation, I'm reminded that I need that too. What God says about me, what he has done says, it speaks volumes about what he thinks of me. That's right. I'm loved. I am significant enough that he sent his son to live and die and raise from the dead to welcome me into his family. I'm a child of God. And I think I, want to sit in that. And if I'm sitting in that, it does not matter. Even when I do get it wrong, it's God's saying, yeah, you're a mess, but I love you anyway. Yeah, love that. Well, thanks so much for joining in on this conversation. We just have one more week, I think, in Proverbs, so we'll be wrapping up the Proverbs series next week. We'll see you then. Thanks so much. If you are joining us, for beyond the Message, so glad that you've joined us. If before you leave, make sure you go ahead and like and subscribe so that next week you can get pinged with the nextBeyond the Message. And in the meantime, make sure you check out other resources we have on our app and on our website so that you can grow right where you're at and we'll see you next week.