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Alison Geskin talks with some of the most successful leaders from around the globe. She discovers what they're doing, why they're doing it, and what impact they've made.
Rachel? This is such a pinch me moment. You have built one of Canada's most recognized brands. We'll just sit that there for a minute and I'm gonna say it again. You have built one of Canada's most recognized brands, not for. Just what it sells, but for what it stands for. And I'm so thrilled, so thrilled to spend time with you today.
Thank you.
Glad to be here.
You know, I wanna start with this, you know, you've said that Bergen Bur started in your kitchen table, and I would love for you to take us back, first of all, what was on that kitchen table? What was your favorite food while you were having that kitchen table? And then when was it, when, after all of the kitchen table conversations, did you have a moment when you were like, holy crap, I got, this is a thing.
It's a thing. Oh, it's a thing. This is, this is a thing. What am I doing?
There was definitely that moment. So, and to take you back to the kitchen table, at the time when I was starting launching Hilberg and Burke from my house, like there was nothing else on the kitchen table. There was nothing else on the kitchen.
Cupboards like The intensity of trying to launch a brand from my house when I started, took over everything. So at any given day, when you would come in, you would see samples or, you know, mid production of like product runs or marketing materials. It was everywhere in the house. And really, you know, in those first, I would say like five years of launching the brand, it was just, my life was an all like, immersive dive into, into launching and, and it was everywhere in the, in the house.
So it depended on like what cycle I was in, in, in the year of, whether it was product design and development or launching collections or going on the road and selling them. that's kind of maybe what was reflected in what was going on in the house. But truly for, you know, the first five years of launching Hilberg and Burket had to kind of become everything that I, that I did.
You know, during my waking hours,
all consuming, all consuming, uh, in, in those first initial, I mean, we, we still have those doubts even though we are successful. But in those first initial, you know, like first months or in those first years when you're just, you've got this baby and you're giving birth to it and you know you're shaping it and you're always testing it and you know, you're always questioning, questioning it.
When was that moment when you really knew you had something that it wasn't just a hobby? Yeah. That you actually had.
It was a couple years in, so I dabbled around just could this be something for a few years. and it was a girlfriend who really encouraged me to come and showcase my product and take it a bit more seriously and really launch.
She was like, you have to do this full-time. 'cause I had a job at the time. You have to do this full-time, Rachel, like, why don't you come and set up, um, your product at an event that I'm putting on? And so that was a bit of the catalyst for, you know, kind of putting a stake in the ground and really like branding, having a full collection and, and.
A little bit more professionalizing what I was doing. And it was that event that really crystallized the opportunity and I guess the passion and excitement that I saw in customer's eyes for the product. When you're putting creativity out in the world, you never know how that's gonna be, received. And, and, and that show was the moment where I saw the potential and I got really excited and really serious about it and sort of like switched my mindset and went fully into it from that point forward.
Oh my goodness. I love that. I love
that. So you took the leap, you did it with purpose, passion, and then a bit of necessity. How often do you take a leap for something that matters before you knew it would succeed because that's what you did, you took the leap even before you knew it would succeed. How often do you do that now?
I think as entrepreneurs you're constantly doing that because if you're not pushing forward in terms of growth and innovation and what comes next, you're dying. Your business is dying, and so you're always taking a step into, like a, a leap into the unknown and, and building for something that you don't quite, you can't quite see the full picture yet.
Yeah, and I just think that's part of the journey of entrepreneurship.
Oh, what? Tell me, we all have, uh, our battle wounds, uh, as we grow our business. What was your first one that really took the wind out of your sails and, and you just thought, ah, shit story.
I could look back and laugh now, but, you know, those moments of course make you feel like, do you know what you're doing and, and are you gonna make it through this?
So, shortly after I did that, um, like convention and decided that I was gonna fully go into this, I had an opportunity to audition for Dragons Den. And so I auditioned for Dragons Den. I was successful in land, uh, landing, a venture capital deal, and this was, how was
that? Can we just stop? Can Sorry for interrupting.
Yeah. How was that as an experience?
It was pretty wild. Like a lot of things in entrepreneurship. You know, when I auditioned I didn't quite fully appreciate what I was getting myself into, you know, I was like really excited about the possibility of going on the show and getting a deal. but until you're in that moment, you don't really know.
Really what it's going to be like. So, you know, I, I auditioned, um, I was told that I was going to be on the show. I had a few months to get ready, so I really prepared myself in terms of my pitch and, uh, you know, how I was gonna show up on television. And then, you know, when you get there in that moment, you realize, oh my gosh, there's 12 cameras everywhere catching you from every angle.
Like CB, C gives you this contract to sign that says, you know, they will, they will not be held liable like financially for any loss of revenue or public humiliation. You may like suffer as a result of your, like, experience on the show and you really realize like, this is, you're gonna go and give your pitch, but then it's out of your hands.
Like it's up to them to edit to you however they will. And it's a vulnerable experience. and so I went and I pitched, and it was my first like, actual year in business with Hilberg and Burke and I was only about halfway through the year. Um, so we were really, we were a startup and I was. I was basing my valuation based on future potential, which, you know, that was a bit of a tough sell to the Dragons in terms of it being a brand and it being a brand that was like, you know, in a very, competitive space back at a time when, you know, there wasn't a lot of Canadian brands that were really scaling up.
We weren't seeing a lot of that back when I was getting started. inevitably, even though the, the pitch went well, the experience in the den went well, I didn't get a deal and I went back to my hotel and sort of was reflecting on, oh my gosh, like what? Like what did they just say to me? And like, there was a lot of mean comments.
This is gonna make me look really bad on national television. And then they called me and they, they said, you know, Rachel, uh, we want you to come back and retape it because we think you just asked for a bit too much money. Change your valuation a bit, come back and I think there's some dragons who want to do the deal.
And, you know, that was the, the first and last time that ever happened on Dragons Den They never did that with anyone else again. So I, you know, a little bit of like lucky in a moment. And so I came back in, changed the pitch slightly and ended up with a deal. And, so glad for that experience. It, it really taught me a lot, um, about, you know, taking risks and, and just try trying things even though you may not know how they're gonna turn out.
And the experience of being on Dragons Den, having a, a partner from it was such a wonderful experience. and kind of led to one of, one of my first set, sort of like biggest business learnings and failures that I went through, but it changed the whole trajectory, trajectory of the, a company down the road completely.
So, after Dragons Den, you know, I had this investment of $200,000, which in the grand scheme of. Venture capital deals was small, but to me at the time was like huge, huge dollars. And you know, that allowed me to hire some staff and move into my first commercial space and really begin investing into the brand.
And back then how I was growing my business was through wholesale relationships. So you would go into different stores or jewelry stores. You pitch your product or your brand and they would carry you as a partner. And so I had relationships with wholesale partners across Canada, and my plan with the Dragons Den investment was to really go into the us.
So I invested in a trade show in the US in New York, the best trade show I could go to. I could got a huge booth, took a big team, went down, had this incredible setup. Like the brand looked so much bigger than it actually was. And I was so excited and feeling like this was totally the right move for the business.
And the trade show was January of 2009, which was after the cha most challenging Christmas retailers had had in two decades, right in the, the heart of the recession. So not only was the trade show really poorly attended, but retailers weren't taking a chance on new brands like, like Hillberg Berk that they hadn't heard of.
So we walked away from that show investing a huge chunk of that venture capital. Essentially with no orders. We had two orders, but after the fact they got canceled. So We walked away with no new orders. That was devastating because I realized I had made a huge mistake. You know, like obviously that. It wasn't the path to go down for Bergen Bur, or it was gonna take a, a really long time and a lot more money to make that route successful.
So it was one of those crossroads of like, okay, like I have invested a ton of money, money into something that didn't work, and there's expectations that I've gotta figure out how to grow this business through this recessionary period. And you know, it was kind of the first time that I sat down and I, and sort of like asked myself this question, which I've continued to do.
So since that point in the business is like, what's actually working? Not what I believe should be working or what I believe is like the direction for growing my business, but what's actually working. And when I looked at that, I realized we had such an incredibly supportive community in Saskatchewan where we were building the business.
We had strong sales coming out of, um, Saskatchewan. And in the little tiny like, office that we had rented, we had so many people knocking on our door to come and buy our product that we couldn't even get any work done day to day. So I realized, well, maybe we should really lean into this and open a retail store right in Regina.
So over the next year and a half, we sort of went down that path and a couple of years later opened our first store in Regina in the same little, you know, office, office like, um, heritage House we were in and in 400 square feet. That first store did $2 million the first year and completely changed our business.
So then we realized a couple of things. We realized, there's a special magic that we have in our retail experience that can't be replicated anywhere else, can't be rep replicated with wholesale partnerships or online that we, we thought we were really onto something with building our relationships directly with our customers.
And in 2011, that was not really being done by brands. Hmm. You know, it was something kind of new going direct to consumer. So we leaned into that and we really chased that strategy and that changed the whole trajectory of our business. And we went on this kind of incredible growth curve where our business at least doubled every year for the next seven years.
And so really allowed us to scale. Yeah. Take the momentum coming up against end, take the cash that we had left and actually turn it into meaningful growth as a brand. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Those are some big moments. Growth visibility challenges. Let me ask you this, from the conception, from the, from the table to your very first, commercial site.
Before you went into retail, what did you learn about you? It takes a lot of courage, a lot of courage to, uh, face what you've faced, especially the dragons. And then to come back. I mean, even to think that, uh, to put your hand up for that, it takes so much courage. What did you learn about yourself?
I learned that there was a lot of things I didn't know and that I was going to have to get really comfortable with being uncomfortable, uncomfortable, uncomfortable every day, and, and more than that, getting kicked in the face most days and that, that was gonna be part of the journey.
And if I was gonna last and stick it out, I was gonna have to get real comfortable with the ups and downs of running a business. so I learned that I was a lot more resilient than I knew that I would be and had to become even more resilient as the years went on. But that was an absolutely critical part of the journey.
I learned that that success is. 100% the team you build around you because you only get to a certain point where on your own, on your own skills and abilities and, and you know what you can bring to the table. And that, that point is, is very soon in the journey. And then it's like the team that you build around yourself that takes you forward.
And so finding the right people and having the right culture that attracts the great people that you want, the values aligned people. That's, that's everything. And so, you know, I, I learned that very early on. I learned that staying true to your values, even though you, you might, might face headwinds or differing opinions or things change over time.
Staying true to your values is critical, you know, and, and you know, that often gets challenged as you grow and you face different things in business. But going back to that and staying so rooted in that is, was fundamental for us and for our growth.
Oh, I wanna talk about values for a second. 'cause you bring up something really important.
How would you recommend other businesses, other leaders, to really embody their values and make it come alive more so than just what it's on the, the, the front of the door or that sits on your website? How do you take, how did you really make it come alive for Bergen Burke and for and for your people?
How, how do you do that? How do you translate that?
I think the first thing is, it is it has to be totally authentic. And for me and for running Hilberg and Burke, you know, I knew I was gonna be running this business, it's a marathon. I knew I was gonna be running it for a long time. So for, for the values to be my values first and foremost.
Mm-hmm. So important. And so like, I guess first learning myself and learning what I cared most about and what I would fight for every day. That that was a journey, you know, to, to really understand myself as I was like, you know, a young. 25-year-old starting this business, just starting to learn myself.
so that, you know, learning what mattered most was sort of step one. And then figuring out how to bring that to life across everything that we did in Bergen. Bur how was a tenure journey, you know, like, yes, we developed the values. Yes, it was something we put up on the wall, but for it to be like true in how we show up and live every day was probably a good decade.
You know, 'cause you have to think through like, how does this impact everything we do from hiring people the right values, aligned people to building a business and building processes aligned to the values that you wanna live, live to. Creating product and structuring your whole financial model as a business around those values took many years.
And so, you know, where we are today versus starting out and just, you know. Writing those values. It's, it was a journey. So I think, have they changed?
so if you look back at the beginning to like where you are now, have you ha have they, have you honed them? Have they changed? I would say have they worked with the
business?
Have they been, have they been wordsmithed? Yes. Yeah. But the fundamental values have stayed the same since day one and since, you know, kind of since taking that exercise to really understand what they are. Um, and you know, it, like for me it was, they had to be true to, to who, who I was and not what I wanted, but, but really who I was.
And I think doing that exercise to start there is what has made it meaningful, true, and authentic to our brand.
Mm.
How, how, how, how much rigor do you have in that process now? Because my question is this, how easily can you spot a fit? And a not fit.
every single thing we do in our business is rooted in our values today. Yeah. And as a result of that, we're very, we're great at spotting people who are going to be the right fit for our business, who share the same values and who are passionate about the work that we're doing.
And so, um, but that, that took time too. You know, so we're, we're great at it now, but, you know, it, it took time to really understand how to spot the right people, how to attract the right people, how to tell our story in a way that people heard our story and wanted to come work for us. but I would say where we are today is it's, uh, we're really good.
We're really good at finding the people we're really good at, getting the people and, and keeping them, keeping people. We just had, um, a bit of an anniversary celebration where I think 14 people in our business celebrated 10 years. So it was pretty, pretty phenomenal to see that.
That is a testament to who you are, how you lead, how you built a brand that is so personal, so heart centered.
I have a question for you. We know that, um, you know, businesses, uh, sometimes cutthroat and challenging. How do you protect that essence as your company grows?
Yeah, that's a, that's an interesting question. So I think from the beginning, because I had not really had a lot of experience working in other cultures.
Mm-hmm. I just designed the culture that I wanted to be a part, I wanted to live in myself every day. And so I think our culture is so different than most places that, because I never experienced what it was like to work anywhere else really. that we've just sort of navigated how do we. Keep that as we've grown and for sure as we've grown and grown outside of the borders of our home province and out of the borders of Western Canada, the pressure, and
Canada and Canada,
totally.
The, the pressures, of the reality of business get, you know, more intense. but we've just, we've stayed rooted in who we are and I think a big part of like having the right team who also cares and upholds the values every day
Yeah.
Uh, keeps us true to what we set out to do and what we intend to do in the world.
Oh, answer this million, billion, trillion dollar question. For those leaders that are listening that, uh, are struggling with, trying to find ways to have their people care more about what they do, about how they show up at work, what, what would be some insight that you would share to our listeners? That are facing that.
Yeah. Well, for us, for us, it's pretty simple. You know, it comes back to we are very clear about what we're trying to do in the world, and we're very clear at the outset of the interview process with people. So people who also care about the values that Hilberg and Burke has are attracted to work for us.
And then every day that people come to work, they. You know, get to participate in, they get, um, visibility to the impact that we have. And it's about so much more than making money as a business. And it, and it always has been. And so then I don't have to, I don't have to do anything to get people to care because they already, that's the reason they came to us in the first place.
And I don't, like, there's no, we don't have to do a lot inside because we are already doing the work mm-hmm. To make a difference in the community, to do really amazing things beyond just creating beautiful product. And everyone in our business is a part of that and gets to experience that. So I don't know that you can, you can't like orchestrate that.
It has to come organically and it has to start with what are you trying to do in the world beyond just make money.
Yeah. It goes back to our earlier conversation we had before we started the show about belonging.
Yeah.
Really?
Yeah, totally. Yeah. We wanna feel like their work is, is meaningful Yeah. And contributing to something that's leaving a lasting impact.
Hmm. If your team could describe your leadership in one word, what would it, what, what, what would you want it to be?
What I want it to be?
Yes.
Um,
it's not one word, but like, I think like legacy building that it's, it's looking beyond just what are we doing, um, this year, the next five years. Like what is this brand or business doing over 50 years to make a difference, like legacy and impact. Yeah. Yes. Like meaningful impact, not just impact, but meaningful impact.
Totally love that. I love that. What do you think, if we asked your team to describe your leadership in one word, what do you think that they would say? Um, that's a good question. you know, I might be described as, as, as a visionary leader. I tend to focus on, on the opportunities and sometimes unrealistic opportunities rather than the reality that we're rooted in.
And, and try and balance my leadership out with really strong executors.
Yes.
So, yeah, I get really excited about the potential of where we're going, of a global brand that we can be building. And, that may be down the road that we are a billion dollar global brand, but I, I'm knocking
on wood right now.
I very much see, uh, like that's the journey we're on and you know, I think so, so I think sometimes that can be a bit overwhelming when you're in the day to day and you're like, but how are we gonna get there? You know? So, um, but I, I try and stay rooted in where are we going? And, and you know, like, what does this business look like?
And 10 years down the road,
what was the shift like for you? I always find it so interesting, it's such a unique experience for every, leader or, uh, entrepreneur. What was the shift like for you when you had to shift between, or maybe changing the balance between working in the business and on the business?
That's such a unique experience for us all. And some, some of us don't do a good job at it at all. Some of us are like, I, what, what was it like for you? What was that shifting like? Was it hard? Did it come natural? What did you learn?
You know, I had exposure to a lot of really incredible business leaders when I was getting started.
And, and some of the things that I knew but hadn't yet experienced, uh, were that your job from day one was to begin figuring out what you're not good at and replacing yourself. Mm-hmm. And so I think through every iteration of growth that we've come through as a leader, you have to be like, you have to be really brutally honest with yourself of like, okay, am I good at this?
Or can someone else do it better than I am? And really continue to strip your ego out of the equation and just double down on building incredible capabilities around you. so it's definitely, I've found it, it is an exercise in humility to, to stick with the business over time, because what I was great at, at the outset that got this business too.
A million, 5 million, 10 million is the opposite skillset that it takes today. And I had to be really honest about that and not try and be something that I wasn't and ensure that I was really choosing the people who could support my skillset. 'cause otherwise it wouldn't have worked.
Yeah, I think it takes a, a, a, a great deal of skill, and tools to be able to hold a mirror up to yourself to be able to strip your, your, your ego out of the equation.
how often do you find people, uh, not being able to, not being able to do that or see that or see the value of that? Um, I don't know that I can speak to other, other leaders, but I think like, just again, reflecting on my own journey, it is probably been one of the hardest things is to look myself in the mirror and say like, okay, like this isn't my skillset and this is what the business requires.
Of leadership going forward, what am I gonna do about it? Because I can't just show up and fake it. Like, we really need capabilities in, you know mm-hmm. Operational excellence, you know, as a, which, as a founder is not my skillset. Um, so I, and it's, I think this is like something that you are, you're not doing it like on an annual basis, like you're doing it on a daily basis as a leader and, and challenging yourself.
So I would say realizing that in beginning that journey, when I was, you know, in the beginning phases of really starting to scale up. Yeah, I, I felt like a failure often because I felt like I needed to know how to do everything that like, well, I'm running this business. I need to know how to do this. I need to know how to do that.
And I've gotten to the point where it's totally okay that I'm not great at that. I will like openly tell my team, this is not what I'm great at, but you are. So I would like you to like. Really champion this or run with this. Mm-hmm. but you know, that, that, that took me time.
Well, I think it's a really good takeaway and a really good lesson.
You have to give yourself permission. When we're first starting out in our businesses, we're the be all and and end all of everything. We're the carpet cleaner, toilet cleaner, front of the face, the beer girl, the everything you possibly can. And so, you know, you've, you have to, when you're starting out, you have to be that way.
And so, you know, it becomes your identity. And then as you grow, your identity changes. And so you have to kind of chip away at some of the things. And I find that experience really interesting 'cause it is, I always say that leadership is an inside job. 'cause it is. But it's such an interesting to experience that.
Do you ever stop yourself, because I know I do sometimes and I think it's weird and I always ask if whether or not people are the same way, but do you ever like have a quiet moment to yourself thinking, oh my God, this is my life.
Definitely there are moments where like, I mean, you definitely are, as a F founder and a CEO, you're, you're mired in what's going on day to day and I have found that you have to be intentional to step back and just really sort of reflect.
but I've been working more in doing that because the years, as we talked about when we first joined, the years go by fast. The years go by fast, and you know where I am today. I couldn't have ne ever dreamed, you know, when I went to that very first sale. That would be, you know, like 18 years later, this is, this would be where I am.
so I try and like, go back and just sort of like, put myself back in those shoes and, um, appreciate, because it's easy to kind of get into the, like, what do we need to do better? What do, where do we need to push harder, um, mindset. but it's, it's fun to also go back and be like, holy smokes. Like, this is really cool.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because it isn't necessarily, I think, I mean, we're both Canadian girls and we're both, uh, you know, from the prairies. I think that like a, your career looked very different or what we thought a career would look like versus the career that you created. You are that architect.
Yeah.
I th and you know, I think going into starting my own business, that was sort of my vision. I sort of knew that. I was not gonna have a traditional sort of path that all of my friends from university were going down. Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I viewed starting a business as the ability to architect your old, your own destiny.
You know, like dream it as big as you can because you know, other people are doing it, so why not me?
Did you ever have a moment, uh, of a thought, um, where you just thought to yourself, okay, that's it. I, I'm not gonna do this anymore. I I should just go get a corporate job. It's gonna be much easier. Did you ever have that thought?
no. No. I don't think I would ever survive in it. I don't think I, I don't think I could get a job. I don't think I'm employable. But the thought, the feeling of like, would it be easier? A hundred percent? I just know that that's not, that's not the path for me, but, oh man, yes. Um, yes. Still today it. Would be a lot easier if I just had a job that I could leave and walk away from.
But I also know that's not my life's journey. You know, you're falling whatever reason. Yeah. My life's journey is, is the chaos of entrepreneurship. Yes. I always like asking that question because it's, it resonates so well with all of us that, that, that, uh, are on that journey. And I always find it interesting 'cause I always ask, you know, if you had the opportunity to tap out even when things got really, really, really bad and you still didn't, what does that say about you?
Yeah. I mean, there's been moments where if, you know, if I could, maybe, if someone had given me something to tap out, there's been hard times. Yes. You know, but. You can't, you have to, you have to find the resolve to keep going. but as you overcome those increasingly challenging hills that you climb as an entrepreneur, you build in so much capacity to take, take on so much more than you ever realized that you could.
And isn't that the true testament? I always say, you know, we get very few opportunities to prove to ourselves what we're truly made of, what we truly can accomplish. And look at us. There's so much more room to grow.
Totally. I mean, the lesson that I've learned over and over again is, like, just keep going.
You know, even when things are, feel so hard or. Impossible. Just, just keep going because it's usually when you feel like you are ready to give up, it's like 5% more effort gets you to like a whole different ball game.
Yeah. So insightful. What is it like scaling this purpose-driven, beautiful company? We know it's any, it, any building of any company is not for the fate of heart, but what do you think has been the hardest balance as you scale?
being a mom? Mm-hmm. Yep. Being a mom and even though my kids are nine and 13 and, and 26, doesn't get any easier getting on the plane and leaving them. you know, and it just like, and feeling at peace with the decisions on how, how I spend my time both ways because there is no balance. You know, if I choose to leave the office three hours early to go to my son's parent teacher interview, then.
They day too, taking time away from the team who, who might need you that day too. So it's just, it's finding the grace of, of the choices that you make. yeah. Both ways.
Yeah. And I think that, uh, what you said it beautifully, it is the grace. You've got to give yourself grace. Yeah.
And that's, that really took time too.
You know, I think for a long time I just held so much guilt both ways. And then eventually you just realize that you only have so many hours in the day and there's only so much you can accomplish on your to-do list every day that you know there. Every day you're gonna walk away feeling like you didn't do enough.
Yeah. And you just have to find peace with that.
Oh, oh, oh, this is gonna be something that I know, I know, I know will be really, uh, interesting to the listeners. How do you, how do you, with everything that you've got going on, how do you anchor in presence? So I'll give you a really good example. Oftentimes I'll work with leaders that, uh, are very busy and have lots of things to do, uh, and then they'll go to their son's, let's say, hockey game, but they'll take their work with them and then they're working while the hockey game is, and then they feel terrible.
How, what insight can you share that's worked for you to be able to find that balance so that you can be present for your children presence to show up, still have responsibilities, be present for yourself? Do you have any tips or tricks that, that have worked well for you to find that? Because I think it's elusive to a lot of us.
Yeah.
I mean, at the end of the day, it is a choice. And you know, I've struggled with it like any entrepreneur has, but it's, it's, for me, it's not that hard. If you wanna be present, you put your cell phone away. Yeah. And it's away, and you're in that moment. And whether it's 5 minutes or 25 minutes or 5 hours.
If your work is away and you turn it off, you know it's a lot easier to be present with your kids. It's It's Mm-hmm. So it's just about making choices.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. And I think that, that it is, uh, perhaps the per, you have to give yourself permission to make that choice to say, it's okay, I'm gonna put my phone down.
Or on the opposite side, it's okay to say, I've gotta get this done. Give me half an hour, and then I'm all yours. Totally. Yeah. So important. These are all the things that we all, all of us struggle. It's, it's not, industry, uh, you know, inclusive startup, scale up enterprise. It's all, it's the burden that we face.
was there ever a deal, a partnership, a moment of success that you turned down because it didn't align with your values?
I think actually, I think there's things every year in our business that we look at and ask ourselves, are these values aligned and does it make sense for us? So, although sort of like maybe one big thing doesn't stand out, or whether it's in the company, or whether it's how I spend my time, or things that I might say yes or no to, everything has to get, come and get rooted back into like what's most important and anything you say yes to, like it impacts the time, the energy that you have for everything else.
so I sort of view that those decisions are being made almost constantly and intentionally. It sounds like intentionally, you know, oftentimes we just kind of go with the flow, but it sounds like you've got a, a bit of a check and balance so that you know, you're looking at it with intention. And I, this is definitely something that I've had to work a lot on because when you're starting a business, you kinda, I felt like I had to say yes to everything for a really long time.
You know, because at the end of the day, you've got people's mortgages depending on the business succeeding. Yeah. Um, and, and I think you have less ability to say no to things out of the gate, but as you build the stability of your business over time, you earn the right to, to have more mm-hmm. Protection around what it is you do.
Do you think that, uh, yes, we are forced to say yes to a lot of things, but do you think that that's just a natural part of our own evolution to really find out, you know, what we really are and what we wanna lead and where we wanna go. So you put yourself and say, you say yes to all those situations and you didn't like this situation.
Okay. That's a lesson learned. We're not gonna do that again. So we're gonna go more this way. I think, yeah, I think that's a big part of it too. For sure. As you're learning what works in your business and what works for you personally and, um, what gives you energy, what takes energy away, I, a lot of that stuff is also discovered along the journey.
Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Okay. How do you care for yourself when your mission starts to feel heavy and you have more than one mission, not just 'cause you, when you, and you wear more than one hat. Mm-hmm. You're ace, successful founder leader, you're in the community. And we'll talk about that next. 'cause I do wanna touch on that 'cause I think that's incredible.
But how do you do that? How, uh, how do you care for yourself? 'cause there's a lot on your plate. Yeah, I mean, I kind of look at all the things that I need to do for myself, to feel good, to stay healthy on a little bit of a hierarchy. And like the top one is like my own health. If I don't have my own health, then I'm no good to anybody.
So, and this has been learned. I've learned that I have to be pretty ruthless around my prioritization of my workouts, my prioritize prioritization of eating healthy food. Um, I'm on a journey with sleep right now and trying to, you know, nail great sleep, you know, every single night, which has been a challenge.
But I've learned, like without those things, without those simple things happening regularly, everything else falls apart. And I have to be absolutely ruthless, you know, no matter what with those things, because then I can't, I can't be a good mom. I can't be present. I can't be a great leader if I don't have the basics nailed.
Yeah. How, how, how, how easy or hard is that journey for you?
It's been a very long journey, you know, and I would say I really haven't, like, fully nailed it mm-hmm. Until kind of coming into my forties and realizing how critical boundaries around my time, my energy are, and that it's, it's okay to like, say no more often.
for me it was a bit of, I think it was a journey of maturing, of navigating some things in my life and landing at the place where, okay, yeah, it's okay to say no and I am going to gladly start doing it more often. Yeah. And so I think it's because we chase different things, right? Yeah. So when we're in build stage, we chase, we, we chase different things when we're in.
Yeah. It's just different. Yeah. Interesting, interesting. Okay. So let me ask you this. So you've donated millions. Millions to women focused causes. What does giving back mean to you now as a mother, as a founder, as a leader, I think it's, I do think it's always had the same impact on how I feel about about the business.
It is that to navigate what you need to navigate as a founder every day and to go and kind of fight the battle that you do, there has to be so much more than just making money. I think I had a bit of a realization early on that you get to a certain point, and I don't know what it is, like a certain salary, maybe it's a hundred grand a year where you've taken care of your basic needs and above that it doesn't make you any happier.
So you can be chasing all of these things, but the happiness of those things last like a couple weeks, a couple months. You have to, you have to be happy with who you are as you are, like with everything stripped away. And if you can figure that out, then you can focus on the things that really, like beyond financial, of course the business needs to make money, but that for me, that's not the driver of like what I care most about and what I think our teams like really come to the business for at the end of the day.
Like, what are we doing to make a difference in our community? Like what if Hilberg and Berg was gone tomorrow, what could we look back and say that we actually did beyond making jewelry? Because it's business needs to be about so much more than just driving financial returns. And if, if we're not thinking about that, we're guiding, I believe our society down a very dangerous, dangerous path.
And we see that. We see that across North America. You know, that's been the path driven for the last 70 years. And there's just so many issues and so many like. Problems that are unresolved as a re result of being too, too focused on financial returns as opposed to what else can our business impact?
Yeah.
Well, we're an ecosystem.
Hmm.
Yeah. What do you think about, uh, the next generation, and I'll say leaders and then I'll say female leaders. Um, what do you hope that they inherit from you, from your brand,
from us? I don't think the next generation needs to inherit anything from me or my brand. I actually see it, I do really feel like the next generations view things really differently in my generation or my parents' generation.
And, and I feel really like, um, excited and hopeful about what I see, uh, out of my kids. So, you know, my stepson's 26, he's in a generation different than my younger children are. Mm-hmm. Both of those generations view the world differently than my generation or my parents' generation did. And they care about things in a different way.
And I feel really hopeful that they're starting businesses just, you know, radically different than the way business has been around for the last hundred years. with a very, um, community focused mindset of how do we solve problems? And we're seeing a lot of brands that are launching with. Exceptional, um, you know, focuses on solving problems, you know?
Yes. In our society, in our environment, and not just for making money. So I feel very hopeful.
Oh, I love that. I love that. You know, if you could rewrite one narrative about leadership, the good, the bad, and the ugly, what would it be?
I guess I would like, I like to drive home a message that leadership is something that we all take on. Whether you're an entrepreneur in a leadership role or not. Like everybody has the capability to be a leader in a different way and should be, to be honest, and should be, they should see themselves as leaders.
It's not just about a title, it's about like how you show up in the world. It's how you approach the work that you do, whether it's in a job or in a, um, in your home or in your community. So, yeah, I, I guess I wish, like we didn't think about leaders as just people who held, held a title. We thought about leadership as something that we all need to do as a part of just like being human beings and existing in a community, in a city, in a country where it takes all of our like, contribution and, and intention, intentionality to like make our communities better.
Like it takes all of us, not just few people, because I think that at the end of the day, leader asks, asks us to show up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you look at where you are today. What's next for you? For the brand, for the movement? 'cause this is a movement. I'm curious. Yeah, I mean, so although we're like almost two decades in, in many ways I feel like we are just getting started.
There's still so many people who haven't experienced our brand, you know, haven't tried our products. so I, I feel very much like we're at an exciting juncture where we're like really in a growth phase. We're opening a lot of new stores, we're growing into new parts of Canada. and, you know, maybe we're go going from an adolescent to, you know, a teen in our, our business growth.
Um, and it feels to, for me personally, it feels like more like, I feel like I'm wear with, with more comfort. Yeah. I really feel like comfortable in my, Yeah. In my, in my leadership capabilities and, and where I'm at, I feel really comfortable with the challenges we face every day. And, and I feel so excited about, you know, the challenges to come.
It won't be easy, like, you know, it's gonna be as challenging or more as it has been, but actually feel really excited about that.
I love that. I love that. I love that after two decades or more that you feel, you still feel the excitement.
Yeah. I, I think, well, you know, it's taken time to, I think, get to a level of like stab stability mm-hmm.
In the business. Mm-hmm. And appreciating, uh, what an amazing opportunity I have to run this company, you know? And, and some of it is like working with a coach who, you know, has reminded me of that, you know, like, wow, what, what a cool thing that I get to show up and do every day. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. It's amazing, isn't it?
You are the architect. Totally. Okay. Lightning round. The human spark. Are you ready? Are you ready?
I'm ready.
Whatever comes to mind. Okay. One word that describes leadership today.
I wanna say like, it's a bit unknown. Like unknown. Like there's so many changes happening in the world and I think leaders are feeling a bit, um, unsure of, of what it's gonna take to navigate the next, I would say, five or 10 years.
I love that.
A woman who inspires you.
Oh man. There's so, so, so many. Um, but one that's like been a huge inspiration my whole life is a woman named Pam. Pam Klein. Beautiful. Yeah.
Uh, the best advice you've ever been given?
trust your own instincts.
A lesson motherhood has taught you about leadership.
go slow to go fast.
Uh, allow people to make mistakes, um, give them, give them rope and celebrate them along the way.
What's your favorite piece that you have ever designed and why?
We had the incredible opportunity to design two pieces of jewelry for the late Queen Elizabeth ii. The experience of designing those pieces was, Pretty incredible. And both pieces came to life in very different ways. Um, one piece ended up, you know, very much representative of our brand ethos and the product that we design and the color palt. and the other piece, um, which was a very different commission, had to be very royal and very representative of Canada and our landscape, and Canadian, um, diamonds and gold.
They both ended up very different, but the process of going through the creation of those pieces was absolutely fascinating. Oh. And really, um, special for our teams. and, you know, so different but incredibly memorable. Oh, those two pieces, if I had to pick favorites, those were,
I thought I had pinch me moments in my life.
Oh, Rachel, thanks so much for spending time with us today. Your story is such a powerful reminder that purpose and resilience absolutely can coexist, and that leading from the heart doesn't mean that you're leading softly. Oh, it means, actually, I think this is my takeaway and what you've inspired me is that I think that it means to lead boldly and beautifully with worth.
So thank you.
It's been my honor.