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Orthodox Christian Parenting, hosted by Faithtree Resources Executive Director (and mom of four!) Michelle Moujaes, is a weekly podcast for parents and grandparents navigating the holy struggle of raising kids in the Orthodox Faith. Each episode offers honesty, encouragement, and practical wisdom from the Church—creating space to exhale, freedom from the pressure to be perfect, and openness to grow as you raise children who are deepening their knowledge and love of Christ.
Welcome to Orthodox Christian Parenting, where we bring the church's timeless wisdom into the everyday chaos of raising kids. I'm Michelle Moujaes, and today we're doing something a little different, a full circle episode, if you will. So a while back, Paul and Karen Kanan sat right here and gave us the long view of parenting, the practices that lasted, the things that they do differently, and what it looked like watching their kids grow up and raise families of their own. It was one of my favorite conversations. Well, today, we get the other side of that story because I'm joined by their three grown children, Vanessa Farha, a wife and mother of three in Wichita, Kansas, Lucas Kanan, husband, father, and now working full time alongside his dad, and Marcus Canan right behind him, also working alongside their father with baby number two arriving any day now.
Michelle Moujaes:Among the three of them, there is one more grandbaby on the way, which means Paul and Karen have a total of seven, almost eight, and are about to get very busy. I asked them here to answer the question that every parent listening really wants to know. Did it work? What kept them in the church? What would they tell their parents now that they're raising kids of their own?
Michelle Moujaes:And yes, do they agree with mom and dad on that whole sports debate? This is one episode that you are gonna be so glad you're here for. It'll be fun. Let's get into it. Welcome you guys.
Lucas Kinan:Thank you.
Michelle Moujaes:I'm so thankful that you guys came and joined us. Okay. So before we jump in and hear all about what it was like growing up in your home, tell us a little bit about who you are.
Lucas Kinan:Alright. Sure.
Vanessa Farha:My name is Vanessa, and I born and raised in Yorba Linda, California. And then in 2014, I married my husband, Nathan. And I moved to Wichita where there's he comes from a big family in a big Orthodox community. So we love living there. Our children go to the Orthodox school attached to our church, and it's a good life.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it. Okay. Tell us a bit about your ministry work. I know you were involved with the school, and you do a bunch of things. What does that look like for you?
Vanessa Farha:Yes. I served on the board of the school for as many years as I could before Sofia started attending there. So now that I'm a school mom, I help with fundraising and other parent efforts.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it. Perfect. How about you,
Lucas Kinan:sir? I'm Lucas. I am the your typical middle child. I married a beautiful girl from Toronto. Her name is Justine.
Lucas Kinan:We live in Yorba Linda, right down the street from my parents. And we attend St. Luke's Garden Grove with our three children, Cassie and Alexander and Zoe.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh my gosh. Okay. Ministry, are you involved?
Lucas Kinan:I am. Yeah. I'm currently on the parish council, which has been a lot of fun. It's it's, you know, a different side of the church that
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. For sure. You know, always see. But
Lucas Kinan:it's been a a challenge. I've had, you know, a lot of great examples come before me. A lot of my family members who have been on the parish council that have really kinda guided me and helped me
Marcus Kinan:I
Lucas Kinan:love navigate that side of things. But yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it. And how about you?
Marcus Kinan:I'm Marcus. I don't know if I would say I'm the typical baby of the family, but I'm the baby of the family. I have my beautiful wife as well, Kate. She's from Oklahoma, and she grew up at St. Elijah's Great.
Marcus Kinan:Orthodox Church in Oklahoma City. Beautiful. And we have our son who just turned two, Jonas, and another on the way coming up here in a few weeks. Oh my
Michelle Moujaes:gosh. Oh my gosh. And what about ministry?
Marcus Kinan:I spent a lot of my time growing up at camps and just getting into that that parenting role right now, and then I'm can't wait to find my way
Michelle Moujaes:I'm get into so thankful because I know all of you have served at Special Olympics and at camps, and my kids got to be the beneficiary of your good work in ministry. So we were just laughing about how one of my kids, when he was, like, seven, like, cried so hard leaving Marcus at camp. It was very dramatic.
Marcus Kinan:I probably shed a tear there too.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, yes. You were so patient. Okay. So knowing that you are all now here, you're raising your families in the faith, you've married within the faith, tell me a little bit about your household growing up. I think parents would be really interested to know what was the culture because that had to have informed where you are today.
Michelle Moujaes:So let's talk about that.
Vanessa Farha:Well, first and foremost, we had a lot of fun. Our parents are fun. Our dad's hilarious, and we laugh a lot as a family. But always at the forefront was first our faith and then our family. And when thinking about what made the culture of our house what it was, I personally would say as as a young girl, what made me feel so secure was our parents really made us feel very very tight knit as a nuclear family, that the five of us were very close and that the three of us children were what was most important to them, and raising us in the church was their absolute priority.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, that's so good. Yeah. Yeah. I love it.
Lucas Kinan:Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Do you have anything to add to that?
Lucas Kinan:Yeah. When it came to, like, our spirituality in the church, I feel like our parents just led by example. We didn't really at least, it's it's interesting you know, it'll be interesting to hear kinda what my brother and sister have to say because their experience is probably different than mine. But I don't feel like especially in relation with my dad or, you know, both my parents really, we didn't talk about our spirituality as much because I feel like it was always just implied. Like, these things were what we do.
Lucas Kinan:We go to church. We say our prayers. We pray before we eat. We pray before we go to sleep. And so if if I was thinking about, like, really what was strong in our house, growing up, it was it was character, which I think really goes along, you know, with our spirituality.
Lucas Kinan:But my dad was always really adamant about who you were as or who I was as a man, how how I treated my siblings, how I treated my mom especially, and just making sure that I was a I was a man of really strong character.
Michelle Moujaes:I wanna, like, ask a 100 questions because, you know, I'm raising three men and and a girl. So what did that look like? Like, get granular. How you treated your mom? Was he like, this is how we speak to your mom?
Marcus Kinan:Was he Absolutely. Okay.
Lucas Kinan:It was tough. It wasn't always all sunshine and roses.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. Was my
Lucas Kinan:our our parents were tough on us, which thank god you look back and you go, you you know, you have these little kids and they're little babies and they react certain ways. And you wanna get so angry, but you also love them so much and you don't wanna get angry at all.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Lucas Kinan:And it's finding this really weird balance, I always am thinking, how do my parents do
Michelle Moujaes:it? Mhmm.
Marcus Kinan:What? I could add on that one a little bit because as a man, I remember I was probably in middle school or high school at the time. They're saying, when you're laughing with something like, oh, shut up. That's that was what people were saying at school. Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah.
Marcus Kinan:I was telling something to my mom and and that came out of my mouth just as like a joke. Think she said a joke to me. I like, shut up mom. And my dad heard that and it was a very serious those words and looking back now, it's not the worst thing to say, but at the time, I'm gonna do that same thing to my son now when he's speaking to my wife. But I never never used those words again to my mom, and it was a very serious son.
Marcus Kinan:I don't I don't care in the context of what you're saying, you never tell those two words to your mom. Yeah. Yeah. Good. And and again, that stuck to me.
Marcus Kinan:I still now I'm I'm a 30 year old man and a father, and I will never say those words to my mom or or my sister or
Lucas Kinan:Or your brother. Right.
Michelle Moujaes:Brother. Oh, your brother? Your wife? Okay. Good.
Michelle Moujaes:No. Okay. So do you think that your parents just had those instincts? Was it something that they learned? I mean, I know they spoke a lot about the generations that poured into them and raised them, but what I'm just thinking of my own kids.
Michelle Moujaes:Like, I laugh all the time. I'm like, get out of here. Shut up. You know, we say that stuff. That's not something that's foreign to any of us.
Michelle Moujaes:But when when did they kinda pick up that, like, oh, boundary. Don't talk to my wife like that.
Lucas Kinan:Honestly, as as I grow as a parent, the more and more I think it's instincts. The less I want it to be because I want to be able to learn these things and use them in my own house, but I don't know how they did certain things because I want to implement these tactics that they use to it sounds like a game, you know, but sometimes you think about it that way with your kids. And I I constantly will think like, well, how did they do that? And then, you know, you have the reverse side of the coin where it's like, also have to talk to my wife and be like, hey.
Michelle Moujaes:How do you wanna handle this situation? Because Sure.
Lucas Kinan:This is how my parents would do it. I don't know if I do it exactly like that, but this is how I do it. This is how I actually handled it because I probably wasn't my best self, like, right in that moment. But what do you think? And it's also hard sometimes to get what seems like parenting advice from your spouse
Michelle Moujaes:because That's not how we do it. Just do it our way.
Lucas Kinan:Yeah. Exactly. Because they're like, well, maybe I wouldn't have done this. And even though it could be, like, really constructive criticism, it's it's hard to hear from your wife or sometimes I'll you know, we we've gotten really good at removing ourselves from a situation with our kids, you know, when they're asleep and saying, hey. Maybe I would've handled it this way.
Lucas Kinan:Maybe I'm thinking about this. And it's still hard to hear because all you wanna hear is you did a great job.
Michelle Moujaes:Way to go.
Marcus Kinan:Got you. Such a good job. Absolutely.
Michelle Moujaes:I know. I would I would say something that I've learned from your parents. And again, I've been friends with your parents since I was teenager, even before when they were my camp counselors. Go figure. Talk about full
Vanessa Farha:circle. Seriously.
Michelle Moujaes:I have learned from them the intentionality of that skill building and the way that I've seen them do it. And again, before I knew you all. You weren't born yet. Mhmm. But they did a lot of that in community by surrounding themselves with people that kind of built that culture.
Michelle Moujaes:So tell me about that. Has that informed those decisions that you're talking about? Like, it's kind of the the and they spoke about this on the podcast they were on. There's a lot of people that they very intentionally planted around you to kind of co labor with them and raise up. I would say everything they
Vanessa Farha:did was intentional. And when you were talking, they were never reactive. They responded. They were never lazy. So much of our culture, and I'm guilty of this, it's so much easier for me to just let my kid get away with whatever they're doing than to really face it because at times, it's inconvenient for me.
Vanessa Farha:Mhmm.
Marcus Kinan:I don't
Vanessa Farha:wanna leave the party. Mhmm. I'm hanging out with my friends. Don't wanna also be embarrassed and draw attention to what's happening. Our parents never let it slide because they were so intentional.
Marcus Kinan:Mhmm.
Vanessa Farha:And in doing so, know, surrounding us with people. I feel we're so blessed. All of our aunts and uncles and our grandparents and our cousins were always around us, and they were all in the church and at our church. Not just scattered about, but we were in the pews with generations, which is such a blessing Mhmm. And such a gift, and that's incredible accountability as a child.
Vanessa Farha:Mhmm. You have people around you setting the example. You don't wanna let them down, and, you know, you can't get away with much. You know, you're not skipping church when, you know, people are expecting you even in college. So it's a blessing.
Vanessa Farha:Not everyone has that gift, but I think finding accountability in your community, creating the community wherever you are, that's how you surround your kids with like minded people, people in the church, people who the end goal is the same. Even if our style's all a little bit different or maybe we do things differently from our parents or each other, our end goal is all the same, and it's to accomplish our children getting into the kingdom of heaven.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. So well said.
Lucas Kinan:Yeah. I'd say especially I mean, even with you know, we're really blessed with a lot of cousins and aunts and uncles around us. But even just like the seeing the different generations of our family interact with each other are such strong and good examples. Because, you know, growing up and seeing our our Jed of blessed memory just passed away, and he I was talking to my wife. I was trying to put together a speech for his funeral.
Lucas Kinan:I was coming up with, you know, the basic, like, oh, this is what he meant to me, and this is the things he did. And we are on the way home from his funeral the day before the meal of mercy. And I was telling my wife, like, the reason it just didn't feel it felt so surreal is because I grew up down the street from him. And I saw him every week, maybe every day, you know, at certain phases of my life. But getting to see the way that my parents treated their parents, way my dad treated his mom, the way my mom cared for her parents, moved them, you know, to Yorba, end of the city we live from Glendale, and the way she took care of them every single day.
Marcus Kinan:Mhmm.
Lucas Kinan:It's such a good example for us to raise our children. We wanna raise our children to be the type of people that want to treat us the way that our parents have treated their parents.
Michelle Moujaes:Absolutely. It's this, like,
Lucas Kinan:really crazy cycle that once you have kids, it it all of a sudden, it's like your mind blows, and it hits you. You're
Michelle Moujaes:like sense.
Lucas Kinan:I need to be the type of person that they wanna serve someday, and the only way to do that is by serving them. Yeah. It's amazing. And it's so great. By treating my parents a certain way.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right. That's right. I think, Walid and I feel that way very strongly that we hope our kids are watching and we try really hard to serve both
Lucas Kinan:of our moms
Michelle Moujaes:They are. Because it's promise you. It's so important.
Marcus Kinan:It is something I just spoke about with our dad just few days ago after our jit had passed away. He was just talking about conversations and stuff that he learned from him. And, you know, he had this conversation, dad, I don't I don't feel like I'm a lot like you. I try to be like you and live up to who you are, but I don't feel like I am a lot like you. And said to my dad, you are because you live your life to serve the people around you, to serve the church that you're in, to serve your wife and your kids and anyone that you come across.
Marcus Kinan:And that's my goal in life and that's what I raised you to be. And my dad will attribute all of his success in life to that.
Michelle Moujaes:To his dad. Yeah. I I have to say so for people watching who may remember, your parents were here and they talked about your grandfather showing up at his son's office and saying, like, I didn't see you and Marcus at church on Sunday, so see you next week. And what that looked like, and that was a clip on our socials that went really, really viral. And since that recording, just very shortly after that recording, we lost your grandfather.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm. And one of the things that was so interesting to me, and I think because the whole community had really enjoyed hearing his story and getting to talk with him, and we thought a lot about him. And these are some takeaways that I thought, which I think are really interesting now in light of watching the before and after that one episode. Number one was he didn't take up a lot of space in a room. Like, personality was not a big one that was like, whatever.
Michelle Moujaes:But he took up a lot of space of with wisdom. A lot of people were able to learn from him, and that was handed down to generations. And then when we got to actually your parents' home to pay our respects, we looked around and saw those generations. I mean, there were Yeah. Two, three dozen small babies running around, everybody's cousins and everybody's there were people everywhere, and everybody kinda did have that same goal, which was rooted in the faith.
Michelle Moujaes:So with all that kind of his background, what do you think that was that he and your grandmother were able to promote across all their children and their children's spouses that for generations, everybody's staying connected to that goal?
Marcus Kinan:Titus' saying always was your children's children gathered a saying, gather around your table. And Titus said, more importantly in her life, success to her would be your children's children gathered around your pew at church. Oh, I love it. And they made that very clear that that was that was the most important thing in life is your faith and your family in that faith is just bonus on top of that. And that's 100% how they lived every single day of their life.
Michelle Moujaes:So I'm gonna push you to get granular because I'm all about the specifics, Marcus, and that is so perfect. So what you're saying is there was no ambiguity about what they were going for. This is what a win looks like for our family is that you are engaged in the life of the church and in relationship with Christ. Okay. So then what what did they do?
Michelle Moujaes:How did you see that?
Marcus Kinan:Again, right, one of their 15 grandchildren was not at church on Sunday, and he went into that meeting to find out why one of his 15 grandchildren wasn't at church.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. So he there was accountability. I love it.
Marcus Kinan:They they lived it. And I think it's it starts from step one. It's every before every meal, if you say a prayer, you cross yourself. I forget who I was just listening to and said, before your feet touch the ground every single morning you get out of bed, you cross yourself. So you start your day that way.
Marcus Kinan:And Jid was just an example. I I got more years with Jid, more of my my adult years, so I gotta learn from him a little bit more than than my with my tithe. He would start one prayer, and I would go and grab my prayer book to try and follow along with him, and it was memory for him. So from every single phase of life, church was the first was the most important and first thing that first thought that popped into his head. So the way I the way I took it was it does encompass his entire life.
Marcus Kinan:I love that. His family, we're such a beautiful family because of that. We're so lucky to be part of that family, but it's because everything he did centered around church. I love that. I love that.
Marcus Kinan:Do you
Michelle Moujaes:guys would you add anything to that?
Lucas Kinan:I I just I think they they led by example, and they and they did it beautifully. They they never you know, my my that story is so funny because it it doesn't that's not him. You know? He is so he led by example. He only used words when absolutely necessary.
Lucas Kinan:And he wasn't admonishing us all the time. He wasn't saying you gotta do this. You gotta do that. You gotta he was just doing it. They were living it as a couple, as parents, as grandparents.
Lucas Kinan:They were always in church. They were always praying. They're always calling you, reminding you about certain things or certain feast days, and they did it just with so much love that it made it you wanted to be like them. You wanted to emulate them.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that. Yeah.
Vanessa Farha:Vanessa? I'm just thinking as you're talking about all these beautiful families that have joined our parish in the last few years that they're joining, you know, just the young and young married couple or with young children. And I I feel very blessed, and I know we all do, to come from a long lineage of Orthodox Christians. We joke that God's like, I'll stick in this family because I don't know if you're gonna find this on your own. You know?
Vanessa Farha:It's I I deeply admire people who actually leave their families to become part of this bigger family. So I would say if you can surround your children with those generations before you, find their chosen grandparents. You know? Choose godparents that have been there and that can root you deeply and that give you that example, I think, is one of the best things you can provide for your kids alongside them having friends, peers, their age. But find the generation before us that really has lived their life in the church and and cling to them.
Vanessa Farha:And and in the case of our parishes, we're losing that generation. And it's been such a delight to learn from them and such an honor to as I say, that's our inheritance. It's our duty and responsibility to pass this down to our children. But find those people in your community and and learn from them and ask them questions and and get your young children around them to learn from them.
Lucas Kinan:A priest recently, I had a meeting with a priest, and he actually reminded me that one of the beauties of of Orthodoxy and the way our archdiocese works is is not just, you know, our canons and our laws, but the apostolic succession. And when you think about, like, what Vanessa just said is our succession in our families or in our Orthodox life, it it's it doesn't just happen without the apostolic succession. And people that are joining the church, that is a like, the tradition is not just for cradle Orthodox or people that have been Orthodox for five generations. It's for everybody. It's for everybody to come and taste it and see it and and live it and be a part of it, and it's amazing.
Michelle Moujaes:So let me ask you this. Was there anything that your parents did that you specifically super love?
Vanessa Farha:I would say their intentionality. Yeah. Even as adults, our parents are still fine tuning us. If I say something that could have been perceived as maybe a little bit sassy or definitely wasn't the way I intended for it to come out, our parents still will correct us lovingly as parents should. But they are just so intentional.
Vanessa Farha:And I admire it and aspire to be that way. And it's like I said, it's not easy.
Lucas Kinan:Mhmm.
Vanessa Farha:It takes a lot of energy, a lot of effort to be so present, but that's, I would say, something that I absolutely love about my parents, and I hope to emulate that. I love that.
Lucas Kinan:My I I'll never forget. You know, my my dad made it a point. And this I don't know if this is controversial or not,
Michelle Moujaes:but Alright. Let's do You like it.
Lucas Kinan:Yeah. My dad always made it a point to say, I'm not your friend. I'm your dad.
Michelle Moujaes:Good. Good.
Lucas Kinan:So we're you know, we could be friends one day, but right now, I'm your dad. I'm not your friend. I'm not doing this to try to be the cool dad. I'm not doing this to make sure that you're always happy with me. I'm doing what I think is going to help you in your life, in your spiritual life, and and to raise the best person, the best man that I possibly can.
Michelle Moujaes:That's great.
Lucas Kinan:And and I think because of that mentality, we're friends now.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that. I love that.
Lucas Kinan:And, you know, a lot of people maybe if if your parents trying to or if I'm trying to be the cool parent or I'm trying to be my my little buddy for, you know, my kids, I don't want I just don't wanna lose that respect level that a parent requires in order to guide their children to the place that they, you know, to the places they need to get. And and at the end of the day, right, our parents can't. My my dad used to always tell us too. He said, you know, at this point in your life, could tell you what to do. I say something, you have to do it.
Lucas Kinan:When one day, you won't have to. And looking back as a kid, I really didn't have to do it then either. I I I mean, I probably did if I wanted to sleep under his roof and eat his food and Mhmm. You know, get the love and support that I needed. But still as children, I mean, I have a a almost 2.5 year old that tries not to listen to anything I say.
Lucas Kinan:And you realize they're these little people, and they have their own wills, and they have their own personalities. They're so different. My five year old, my two year old, they're both boys. They're both raised in the same house. They both have the same rules, the same parents.
Lucas Kinan:They sleep in the same room, and they couldn't be more different. Mhmm. So you realize they do have these wills. They can do what they want. But if you come, if if you treat them like my parents did or our parents did with love and respect, and and they told us we didn't have a choice, but we really did.
Lucas Kinan:Mhmm. But because they guided us in a certain way, we felt like we didn't. And thank god we didn't because we, you know, we're in in such a beautiful way that, was strict. And I was gonna say earlier, it wasn't always I mean, it's tough. Like, I wouldn't say tough because I recently you know, when, when Vanessa's father-in-law passed away at the funeral, her uncle or uncle-in-law was talking about how tough, you know, their household was.
Lucas Kinan:And in some ways, I felt like I could relate, and in other ways, I couldn't. You know? My parents ruled with an iron fist, but we always,
Michelle Moujaes:you know Gentle and loving and affectionate.
Lucas Kinan:But it was firm. It was there was no ifs, ands, or buts. This is how we feel. This is how you're gonna act. This is what you're gonna do.
Lucas Kinan:And if not, these are gonna be the consequences. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was that's it.
Michelle Moujaes:But I really like that. I like the idea of okay. Not that we're gonna go into the spanking debate because, god forbid, we do that online. But we felt really confident that if there was ever a place for us to spank our kids, which there was Internet, but we there was never it never came out of anger. It never came out of whatever.
Michelle Moujaes:The rules were kinda laid out and saying, this is how we operate here.
Lucas Kinan:Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:And if there's ever a defiance that puts you at risk, like, have one kid who used to run into the traffic all the time. I don't know. Like, okay. So we would say, okay. That's not okay, and this is what it will look like.
Michelle Moujaes:And I think with your parents, again, forget this spanking debate. I don't know if they did or they didn't. I don't wanna They did. Oh, that makes me feel so much better about my child. That's good.
Lucas Kinan:You know, we actually were talking to them about this, and sorry to stop you. Please We were actually talking about this last night because my dad was like, I never spanked you guys. And I was like, I don't know. You probably don't remember
Michelle Moujaes:it because you weren't going to do the same I'm pretty sure you did that.
Lucas Kinan:But and then I was asking him if I was the one who maybe got spanked the most, and maybe that's why I was
Michelle Moujaes:thinking Yeah. About
Marcus Kinan:Typical middle child.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. There you go.
Lucas Kinan:I mean, talk about middle children. So when whenever anytime I like, I would get in a fight with Vanessa, my dad would always pull me aside, it'd always be my fault.
Michelle Moujaes:Because she'd
Lucas Kinan:say, you're you're her brother.
Michelle Moujaes:You need to
Lucas Kinan:take care of her. Handle it.
Michelle Moujaes:Figure it out.
Lucas Kinan:Yeah. And then if I get in a fight with Marcus, he would pull me aside and say, that's your little brother. You need to take care of her.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah.
Lucas Kinan:Yeah. And then if they ever got in a fight with each other, he'd pull me aside and he'd say, why did she do anything about it?
Marcus Kinan:We should have figured it out.
Michelle Moujaes:No pressure. I think
Vanessa Farha:that happened one time.
Marcus Kinan:Yeah. Again, you weren't there.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. So But what I love about that is though this building of so I heard one of your aunts tell me one time that she was filling up her car with gas when she was, like, 16. And all of a sudden, a car pulled up beside her, and it was your dad. And he was like, get in the car. Because his father had taught him that the men fill up the tank of the women.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm. And it was just respect. And he saw his sister and he pulled up, which I love that. It's it's so intentional to use your words. But what I like and going back to what we were talking about with the whole spanking conversation, it wasn't ever like out of rage or out of anger.
Michelle Moujaes:It was always spelled out like this is how we operate and Yeah. You know?
Marcus Kinan:It was for us to to learn what we did wrong and and try to not repeat that. Mean, I was just telling him not that long ago that I I feared my dad Mhmm. In the most respectful way. I was scared of him to do something wrong in front of him, and yet I wanted to be around him. I wanted him to I would get in trouble at home, and then my my mom would do what she saw fit, but it was always wait until your father gets home.
Marcus Kinan:And that's when I was I was that when I heard those words, I was a little scared.
Michelle Moujaes:Yikes. Yeah. And then
Marcus Kinan:after he handled whatever needed to be handled, I was ready to play catch with him. Wanted to go outside, grab our mitts, and go play catch. So that I know a while back you asked what's something you want to emulate that your parents taught you. I'm going to strive my entire life as a father to find that balance of Mhmm. I would love for my son to respect me, fear me in in that in that respect aspect, but wanna be around me.
Marcus Kinan:That's such a hard line that I don't know how my dad did it, but he did. Like, I wanted to be around him. I love that. And and my mother as well. The my mom is is the sweetest lady on the planet.
Marcus Kinan:Mhmm.
Vanessa Farha:Yeah. Because they were never reactive. The boundaries were very, very clear for us as children. Even as adults, honestly. Even even as adults, what they expect of us, how we treat other people, how we still treat each other and and our children, there was never a gray area.
Vanessa Farha:And when the boundary is so clear, as children, you feel safe within the boundaries, and you know very well when you've broken them. And that's where that fear it's like the fear of God that we have. We're not scared for God to smite us. We fear disappointing him. You are afraid to disappoint your father and your mother.
Michelle Moujaes:Because his way is so much better. Yes. Right. Right. Right.
Vanessa Farha:Yes.
Marcus Kinan:Okay. As kids, you think you can get something by them because you're like, oh, my parents are the older. My dad used to use a line that always kinda stuck with me. He's like, you think as you you kids can get something by us Because you realize us adults are just older kids. Yeah.
Marcus Kinan:Yeah. Yeah. Everything you did. I tried that on my parents. Yeah.
Marcus Kinan:Yeah. Yeah. And my dad would look at me and be like, you didn't think I was doing that when I was your age? So my dad always used to use that line as you think you can get stuff by us. I'm just an older version of you.
Marcus Kinan:That's right. I love it.
Lucas Kinan:And to go back to your question earlier about whether it was just something that, like, innate in them or whether it's a learned skill, that's, I think, probably the biggest question of this whole thing is, like, can we all become those parents? Can we all, set these these ground rules for our kids that they know when they're within or or outside of the boundaries? And, it's it's really hard to do as you know. I mean, you can tell us. It's hard to to to establish these rules.
Lucas Kinan:And and I think consistency is probably the biggest thing is just staying consistent with our kids. For the first time, just probably, like, last week, my my five year old, he did something and knew it was wrong, and he looked at me, and I gave him one of those, like,
Marcus Kinan:like, I'm
Michelle Moujaes:watching eyes. And
Lucas Kinan:he just goes, I'm sorry, daddy. And he turned around, I was and I thought to myself, I was like
Michelle Moujaes:Yes. I did it.
Marcus Kinan:Did it.
Michelle Moujaes:I gave
Marcus Kinan:him a look, and he was scared.
Michelle Moujaes:I love
Lucas Kinan:that. Scared, but he knew. He just knew he was
Michelle Moujaes:It was a reminder of, like, that's not who we are. I love it. I love it. And I mean, I think it's really important because your parents are some of the most gentle people I know. I mean, I've never heard your dad raise his voice or your mom raise his voice.
Lucas Kinan:They didn't either.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. There was none of that. There was not visions of them, you know, walking around the house with a whip. They just let you know, like, this is who we are. This is what we do.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm. I love that. And even when
Vanessa Farha:they disagreed maybe on how to handle a situation or if I was allowed to do something, dad thought it was fine, mom did not. Whatever this situation was, we never even saw them disagree with each other. They were always a united front, which I look back and realize how incredibly Yeah. Invaluable that is.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa Farha:Yeah. Because you know what you can get away with. Kids see the holes in everything.
Lucas Kinan:And how much effort that took to
Michelle Moujaes:to make it better. Right?
Lucas Kinan:Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Because you don't always agree. Like, anyone who thinks you're gonna
Lucas Kinan:get married in a show. Ever agree.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Right. Mean Yeah. We're different people raised in different homes. Like, Walid and I talk about that all the time.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. But think the fact that you can pull yourself away and then have that conversation and stay united Yeah. Hard to do.
Lucas Kinan:Yeah. So my wife and I have been working on, and hopefully, we're getting better. We so we've been married for just over eight years now. Wow. And, you know, you there's you you you find certain things that get into a rhythm, and you're like, alright.
Lucas Kinan:Cool. We're figuring this out. Like, we're figuring this parenting thing out. And I mean, our parents just celebrated their fortieth anniversary yesterday. Wow.
Lucas Kinan:Happy anniversary.
Marcus Kinan:And they're
Lucas Kinan:still probably figuring things out too.
Michelle Moujaes:Know? Well, because seasons change too. Absolutely. There's always new stuff. Right.
Michelle Moujaes:So I would just tell you in my experience, which I've been married a little bit longer, those rhythms are so amazing, and they're not always.
Lucas Kinan:Right.
Michelle Moujaes:There there are seasons of them. And so that intentionality to continually try and find the ways to stay united and to be intentional, I think it's a really good call out. But knowing that they're not, you know, we don't take those for granted. And I
Marcus Kinan:Yeah. It's so easy to to to sit here and talk about all the great things and how our parents did it in our household because the three of us can see eye to eye on a lot of things because we were raised in the same house. But one thing and I'm only two years into being a father. So the the boundaries haven't been pushed that far yet by our son, but one thing that I'm finding out is my wife was born in a beautiful home too with parents that really cared and treated her and learning what her family did a little bit different than ours. Sometimes I go, I do that that could be better Yeah.
Marcus Kinan:Than the way it was done by us.
Lucas Kinan:And all all three of our spouses are Cradle Orthodox. All three of them are of Lebanese descent. I mean, we literally couldn't have married more similar people to
Marcus Kinan:us,
Lucas Kinan:and yet we find these different. Then And it makes you think like, wow. Our parents also same similar backgrounds, similar people, raised the same, and they made it seem so natural. But the amount of work that had to go into that was probably outstanding.
Michelle Moujaes:I think one of the things I noticed about your parents too is they're praying people. Yes. And so their ability to kinda start the day with the frame of mind that, like, can't do it by myself, Lord. K. Walk with me.
Michelle Moujaes:Probably makes those differences go over a little smoother because I noticed on the days where I am like, it's okay. I don't need quiet time this morning. I'm fine. Everything goes south so fast. But that intentional commitment to prayer, especially I know that your mom has Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:That that I think yields great fruit.
Vanessa Farha:Ma oh, go ahead.
Lucas Kinan:I was just gonna say, grow growing up, we had so when the icons from Mount Sinai came to the Getty, and that was twenty years ago or something
Marcus Kinan:like that,
Lucas Kinan:They auctioned off all the street posters that were all over and my parents cut a bunch of them and they, you know, donated them to some churches around. And they decided to put one of them, I think it was Saint Matrona, maybe.
Vanessa Farha:Mhmm. Macarius?
Marcus Kinan:No. That's the one currently.
Vanessa Farha:Yeah. There's so many of them. Yeah. They have
Lucas Kinan:they have a a dozen different saints. But there was one of them that was they put in our living room right when you walk into our house. It was eight feet tall.
Marcus Kinan:It's as tall as the
Michelle Moujaes:ceiling is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lucas Kinan:You walk in, and it's the first thing you would see. And, you know, even to some of our Orthodox friends and family, was kinda startling walking in and seeing, like, an eight foot icon. Yeah. And I I'll never forget I had a, one of my high school buddy come over one time who was not Orthodox, and he was like,
Marcus Kinan:what's up with that? Yeah. And I was like, oh, it's
Lucas Kinan:an icon. They were, you know, street posters in LA, and we were able to get one, we put one up. And he goes, oh, I thought that was, like, a dead ant or something of yours. And I was like,
Marcus Kinan:kinda is. Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Part of the family.
Lucas Kinan:But it's, you know, it it was those things that, like, looking back when you have your own house and you're figuring out how to fill the walls. Mhmm. And it's like, you know, my my wife, god bless her, she always we're trying we went to HomeGoods and we're looking for some abstract piece of art or something. She'd always say, why are we here? There's nothing more beautiful than an icon.
Lucas Kinan:And so our our our walls are just filled with icons. We don't have any eight foot icons. Yeah. But our walls are filled with them, and our children are seeing them constantly. And, hopefully, I mean, they love to kiss the icons.
Lucas Kinan:And and Marcus' son is, you know, two. It's so precious seeing him go around and kiss the icons and grab the icons and give them to people. My son's walking around with
Marcus Kinan:their No.
Lucas Kinan:Toy sensors. And it's a it's it's beautiful seeing your children, you know, and and love, you know, these these beautiful relics, these, you know, icons that we have in
Marcus Kinan:our house.
Michelle Moujaes:Making it real in
Lucas Kinan:the home. Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it. Okay. I have a question then. Mhmm. If everything that we've talked about, you would repeat, anything you wouldn't repeat?
Michelle Moujaes:Dun dun dun. I know.
Vanessa Farha:I know. It's tricky. I think I'm a more real I'm a mix of my parents. There are things about me that are like my mom, and I'm also like my father. I'm probably more like dad than I am like mom.
Vanessa Farha:So it's not something that I wouldn't do, but I'm definitely a more relaxed parent in certain areas. Not that I think it's better. It just happens to be the style that works for me and my husband. So it's not something that I wouldn't do. It's just naturally, like Luke was saying, when you marry two families and two very similar families, the style just kind of shifts.
Vanessa Farha:But I I thank God because if my parents had done anything differently, we wouldn't be here in the form that we're in with the spouses that we have, with the children that we have. So so I thank God because whatever works. Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. It works. I like it. Anything you would do differently? You
Lucas Kinan:know, I would say maybe now I I I married a woman whose family fasts to the letter of the law. I mean, they are amazing fasters. And it is I know it's it's it's funny when you think about it, but then you let you know, they they're really good at it. I would wake up in their house, and they had this, like, Armenian meat called basterma, and you're, like, fried up with eggs, and it is so good. And it's, like, all I wanna eat when I go visit her family.
Lucas Kinan:And I'll sometimes I'll go there, like, during a fasting period, and I'm just like, alright. Like, we're bust up the sternum here, and now we'll go two weeks with, you know, really strict fasting. And it's and, you know, you see the beauty in it when you see a family who's so intentional, another, you know, word intentionality again. But about it. Now growing up, we would fast during Lent pretty well.
Lucas Kinan:You know? And there there would be years, some years where we're playing baseball, and we would say, oh, I'm I'm I need the protein, so I'm gonna eat meat. Mhmm. Then you kinda look back, and you're like, man, I was eight. Like, I probably didn't need the protein for my baseball team.
Lucas Kinan:So we, you know, we we probably growing up as a family, we probably could have been better fasteners. I'm saying this selfishly because it would have helped me marry into the family and the wife I did, and it wouldn't have been so much, like, almost, like, culture shock. Mhmm. And it's funny. My wife sometimes will be like, are you sure?
Lucas Kinan:Like, you have been Orthodox your whole life. And I was like, yeah, but I I didn't eat in and out during Lent.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lucas Kinan:So I you know, looking back, like, we probably could have been better at at fasting as a family. And again, that's that's you know, I hate talking about things that my parents should have done or shouldn't
Michelle Moujaes:have done. Yeah. Yeah.
Lucas Kinan:Know. Feel so incredibly blessed.
Marcus Kinan:They would agree with you though. Yeah. They would agree with you. Again, there's they're they're still learning like we were saying.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Marcus Kinan:They're learning in their marriage. They're learning with each other. They would probably go back and and say, yeah, we wish we did a little
Michelle Moujaes:bit more I think we would do that too. I I know as far as the aesthetical practices Yeah. I've lived in lots of different places throughout the country over the course of my life, in college, in grad school, and when I first got married, and what have you. And I do think that there are some areas where people really commit in a different way to the aesthetical life. And so I actually really appreciate if there's room for growth and people wanting to figure out because that's the Christian walk.
Michelle Moujaes:Right? Like we don't we don't nail it. Like we're constantly falling down and getting back up again. It's like, I I always say this. I wish I had a checklist.
Michelle Moujaes:Like, someone just tell me what to do. Let me nail that, get it right, and then we'll keep moving on. But that's not really the Orthodox way. So that constant, you know, iterating and pivoting and trying to get better in an area is a gift, and I love it that they would agree with you.
Lucas Kinan:Yeah. And and I'll tell you something that's been I mean, in even just the last month, which just goes to show even in your sixties, which my parents are, how beautiful and how adaptable and you could still learn and grow in the faith. We grew up in in you know, we are always busy on Saturdays and talking about sports, whether it was sports or family functions or parties. We had a big family. There were always a party on a Saturday.
Lucas Kinan:And, we didn't attend Vespers very frequently as, you know, children. And, my wife chants, and we go to Vespers a lot now. I'll never forget when we first got married, I'd be working in the garage and sweating and, you know, I barely had gotten started. And my wife said, alright. Time to get ready for Vespers.
Lucas Kinan:And I get frustrated because I was like, man, I I got so much to do today. Saturday's, like, my only day around the house. And, it's become a really, you know, good thing for our family, really beautiful to prepare for liturgy on Sunday. And just within the last, you know, month and a half, my parents have said, you know, my mom has come to a of Vespers with us over the last couple years to help with the kids, especially if my wife chanting, I'm a complete mess
Michelle Moujaes:in church
Lucas Kinan:with the three of them. But just in the last month and a half, you know, my dad has made a a really strong point to say, I'm going to Vespers. He took his granddaughters, you know, by himself on Saturday. And then it's so it's it's it's beautiful for me as a grown man with, you know, three kids to see that even in your sixties. Like, hey.
Lucas Kinan:This is better for this is good for me and my family. And he's now being very intentional about making it to Vestas on Saturdays.
Michelle Moujaes:That's awesome. Yeah. It's amazing. I like that. I like that.
Michelle Moujaes:There is great wisdom in being willing to I mean, I don't wanna use the word repentance, but it is that turning away from what wasn't optimal and turning towards God. I like that.
Vanessa Farha:Yeah. And they surrounded us with all the tools that they could. I mean, we always had camp. They always made sure we could attend camp. Our family vacations were centered around parish life conferences and archdiocese conventions.
Vanessa Farha:As soon as we were old enough to go serve at Special Olympics at the Antiochium Village or in whatever capacity to serve our church and its camps and its ministries, they had us doing that from a very young age, which wasn't just for our service to the church, but it also gave us those other tools. We were going to vespers at camps. We were learning prayers that we didn't say at home or fasting on Wednesdays, these apostles fasts. You know, these fasts that are maybe looked over, things that we weren't as strict on at home. They gave us the tools and provided us the environment to learn about those things even outside of the home.
Lucas Kinan:Yes. So when you married someone who wanted to do them, they weren't completely completely
Marcus Kinan:shy. You just did a little bit.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right. That's right. So all three of you, obviously, very close to each other. Your spouses, I know, very close to each other. Thank god.
Michelle Moujaes:And you are essentially cut from the same cloth. Mhmm. Anything you guys do differently in your parenting? Yes. Oh, really?
Michelle Moujaes:Let's go.
Lucas Kinan:Go ahead, Marcus. Why don't you take a
Marcus Kinan:Oh, you you came out
Michelle Moujaes:We came out swinging. You got oh,
Lucas Kinan:you got
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. I
Lucas Kinan:mean, it's Vanessa even alluded to it earlier. She's just a little bit more what is the word you used?
Vanessa Farha:Laid back, relaxed, cool, fun.
Michelle Moujaes:Nice. That's right. Yeah. Awesome. The better way, And
Lucas Kinan:and, you know, it's funny. When we talk about, like, structure in the household, I wouldn't even say it's about, like, her children are obviously held to the same standard that we all try to hold our children to, whether it's, you know, behavior in church or behavior at home or behavior with our their grandparents or their aunts and uncles or cousins. But when it comes to, like, schedules more specifically, you'll find me and Marcus on time a lot more often than you'll
Michelle Moujaes:see Vanessa.
Vanessa Farha:I say we have a routine more than a schedule. So I can stay up a little later. And I do think though, I have daughters, and I can be not lenient, but you have a daughter. She's nine months. But girls, I feel like it's a little different.
Vanessa Farha:I and I also have a son, but he's still a baby. So I feel like raising girls, I have a little bit more I can not get away with more, but they hold themselves to a standard without me having to be behind them all the time because Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Their And it depends on the kid.
Vanessa Farha:It does.
Michelle Moujaes:It depends on the kid so much.
Vanessa Farha:Yes. The second is a lot more rambunctious than the first one.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa Farha:I am the most laid back of the three.
Marcus Kinan:I think so. I can tie in the two last questions Yeah. Into one. What my parents maybe I could have seen better, but as a positive and as a negative. We talked about earlier how there were no disagreements, there were no arguments, and it's a beautiful thing.
Marcus Kinan:And it's maybe something that I've struggled with being in my married life is because I didn't see how maybe my dad treated my mom in a in a disagreement and how they it's something that I'm learning from my wife that their family, if if something's on their mind, they'll talk about it and then they move on faster than anybody I've ever met.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, it's
Marcus Kinan:so good. And it's something that I would probably just not talk about it. Right? Like I would just I'd
Michelle Moujaes:I'll let it happen. I get mad and stay mad for as long as I can.
Marcus Kinan:It's something that I I can watch her family just have a conversation, have a disagreement, and then at the end of it, say I love you and and go on with
Michelle Moujaes:your And let it go.
Lucas Kinan:That's so
Michelle Moujaes:And it's a really important skill. Yeah.
Marcus Kinan:And again, I don't think it's a bad thing that I didn't see that with my parents, but it's something that now I'm I'm maybe learning a little bit more in my later years. I would say is a positive and a negative from my parents. Yeah. Something that as a kid, you don't see your parents arguing, but maybe I took that as, oh, you don't talk about something that's going on in front of you and you just move on with it. So growing up, I was you could ask it's like a joke in the house.
Marcus Kinan:It's like, we never know what Marcus was up to. We never know if he had a girlfriend because I just didn't just Talk about all that. Yeah. I just kept going on with my day. And it's something that becoming a husband is I think it's good to to have your discussions, talk out how we're gonna move past this.
Marcus Kinan:Something that I'm definitely learning from her. And something that I see in her family, something to look up to.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it that they just make the decision to let it go. That let it go piece is so important. I gotta grow in that area. It's hard. Yeah.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. It's really hard. That's good. Okay. If your children someday were to be asked, tell us about the culture of growing up in your home, what do you wish they'd say?
Vanessa Farha:I'd hope that my children would say that our home was like a little church. Because that is the goal for all of us. Right? That's what we're supposed to do when we leave liturgy. We're going back out into the world to spread.
Vanessa Farha:And if my home is just a small piece of that, then I will feel like, okay. We did it. Good. Okay. Good.
Lucas Kinan:Yeah. This is a pipe dream for me. I would hope that my kids would say I lived in a pious home. It's a word that we kept with, you know, Arjid passing away and my sister's father-in-law passing away is a word that people kept using about them. And you keep you hear it and you hear it and you hear it and you're like, wow.
Lucas Kinan:What a beautiful description for a person Mhmm. To that their legacy to be their pious. So I think if we can have pious home, which really, you know, fits in line with your home being a little church, I think it would it would, you know, like, succeeded.
Michelle Moujaes:That's a win. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Marcus Kinan:I could already tell my son is is big into sports as I was when I was growing up. And a lot of the times that kind of took was growing up with my brother sharing a room. We played every sport possible. So balls were flying through the house, marks on every wall. We broke almost every window in the house.
Marcus Kinan:What I'll be trying to push is more important than than sports is faith. And if they can relay that one day because again, my son's two and there's balls everywhere I love They'll be sitting on the couch and a ball will hit you
Michelle Moujaes:in the face. But he's just so those two things to coexist. I love it so much. Time for one question from one of our listeners. This one comes from Catherine who's from Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Michelle Moujaes:She is the mother of two and asks, I want my kids to truly want church someday instead of just complying with me because I told them to. Was there a specific age or moment when that shift happened, or is it something you just hope for as a parent?
Lucas Kinan:You know, we went to church because we were told to. That's just what you do as a kid. You do whatever you're told to really. And I remember after going to camp and my best friends in the world, you know, those friendships being nurtured there and created there. And then all of a sudden, was like, wait, these people actually go to my church?
Lucas Kinan:Like, I can go start hanging out with them, you know, at church. And that's really I remember wanting to go to church because my friends were there from
Marcus Kinan:camp. And,
Lucas Kinan:you know, you could say what you want about however that path took me, but that, you know, wanting to be there because my friends were there really, nurtured the innate understanding that this is what we do. This is who I am. This is who my grandparents were. This is what I believe. This is what is true.
Lucas Kinan:Now if you take, a eagle eye view at this whole thing, like, that's really what our parents were trying to accomplish all this time. Is how do you get your children to realize that this is true? This is the way you live your life. And making us surrounding us with every aspect of these things, and hopefully one thing catches, it's exactly what, you know, what they were trying to do. Putting your children in these situations where they will understand.
Lucas Kinan:This is why we do it. This is why we believe what we believe in. This is why this is true. I think that, you know, you're giving yourself the best keys for success.
Marcus Kinan:I love it. Alright. Anyone? To piggyback on that, it was like getting up and brushing your teeth in the morning. Going to church was there was no if, ands, or buts.
Marcus Kinan:You're getting up on Sunday morning and we're going to church. We were talking about it that you can't just dip your toe in. You can't go to church on Sunday and then take communion, maybe slip out after communion and go home and, you know, it's a day to rest. It's a day to get ready for my work week. Getting into the community is the most Yeah.
Marcus Kinan:Important We we didn't have a choice if we wanted to go to summer camp or not. And like Lucas said, that's where his relationships flourished and made him wanna go every Sunday. Mhmm. It's it's I enjoyed being behind the altar. I'm lucky as a man that I being an altar boy, that was kind of a different view that I got to see.
Marcus Kinan:It's was when the ball started rolling with me that's this is enjoyable on Sunday mornings. I get to see what some people don't get to see. So it was just the fact that this is what you're gonna be doing and kind of find your enjoyment in this. So good. It felt like for me, it was it was Marcus, find what you like in this because this is what you're gonna do for the rest of your life.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. I love that. It's so good. So good.
Vanessa Farha:I would just add having the saint it sounds so silly to say it this way, but having the saints as friends, I see it in my daughters. They love to learn about the saints. They love the lives of the saints, and I'm not the best at doing it every day as I should. They learn about them in Sunday school, of course. Thank God they go to an Orthodox school and learn about them there, But they feel connected very personally.
Vanessa Farha:Even my son who can't talk yet. If he is held up to we're very blessed to have an icon of his patron saint, Saint Raphael of Brooklyn with a relic in our home. And when we hold him up to that icon, he talks to him. He venerates him, and he touches him. And it's like the icon comes alive for him, and I have no doubt that it actually does in his case.
Vanessa Farha:But those are real relationships in our lives and in our children's lives, and I've seen it especially as a mother. So it piggybacks on what they both said. I learned about so many saints at camp, and I can't just leave it to liturgy on Sunday morning to teach my kids about the saints. So really engulfing them. If your home is a tiny church, if you are surrounded by people, we are just trying to emulate the the absolute blessing of a childhood that we were given.
Vanessa Farha:And I thank God every day. So if we do a fraction of that and our children remain in the church and marry in the church and want to raise their children in the church, I will thank God every day that that I'm blessed to witness it.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that. I love that. Will you come back and visit us sometime?
Lucas Kinan:Absolutely. We're gonna
Michelle Moujaes:bring your kids on.
Vanessa Farha:So can you imagine? I
Lucas Kinan:don't think you want that at
Michelle Moujaes:this point. Yeah. We'll give them a couple
Lucas Kinan:of years. Exactly. Could use
Marcus Kinan:a babysitter.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. There you go. There you Okay. Will do. Well, thank you so much for being with us, guys.
Lucas Kinan:Thank you for having us.
Michelle Moujaes:And thanks to you for listening to this week's episode of Orthodox Christian Parenting. If today did anything, I hope it gave you a glimpse of what's possible, That the small, ordinary, and sometimes really exhausting things that we do as parents right now can echo for decades. Paul and Karen didn't do it perfectly. I mean, nobody does. But three grown children sat in these chairs today, they told us the truth.
Michelle Moujaes:That whatever they did, it stuck. Christ stuck, and the church stuck. And now they're doing the same thing for their own kids, one diaper and one divine liturgy at a time. So take heart. And whatever season you're in, whatever you're getting wrong today, just keep showing up.
Michelle Moujaes:God willing, one day, your own kids will sit somewhere in a conversation like we've had, and they'll say the same thing that these three just said. Don't forget to grab this week's free discussion guide in the show notes, and we will see you next time.