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Each week, Revenue Operations expert Rosalyn Santa Elena shines the spotlight on founders, CEO's and Revenue Leaders from hyper-growth companies and dives deep into the strategies they implement to drive growth and share their learnings through the process.
Rosalyn brings you the most inspirational stories from revenue generators, innovators and disruptors, as well as Revenue Leaders in sales, marketing, and, of course, operations.
Let's unpack everything that optimizes and powers the revenue engine with this brand-new podcast from Growth Forum https://www.growthforum.io
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Welcome
to the Revenue Engine Podcast.
I'm your host, Rosalyn Santa Elena,
and I am thrilled to bring you the
most inspirational stories from revenue
generators, innovators and disruptors,
revenue leaders in sales in market.
Getting, and of course, in operations.
Together we will unpack everything that
optimizes and powers the revenue engine
Growth Forum Production are you ready?
Let's get to it.
Driving revenue is a bit of
art and a bit of science.
The more science, meaning data and
insights, but also repeatable proven
processes, the more likelihood of success.
In this episode of the Revenue
Engine Podcast, Jonathan J.
Mentor, the CEO and Founder of Successment
shares his proven method of rev ops
science that helps B2B startups ignite
revenue at the most critical stage.
The 1 million to 10
million dollar journey.
Jonathan also shares why he focuses
on impacting economic growth and
visibility for disadvantaged people in
tech and why companies are focusing on
all of the wrong things when it comes
to diversity, equity and inclusion.
So please take a listen.
Get your notebooks out.
And be ready to be inspired.
So super excited to be
here today with Jonathan J.
Mentor, the CEO and
Founder at Successment.
Successment is a revenue growth
partner for diverse B2B startups.
That helps ignite revenue with a
focus on the first 10 million in
revenue, leveraging rev ops, science,
and driving impact with diversity,
equity, inclusion, and access.
I am super, super, super
excited to learn more.
So welcome Jonathan, and thank
you so much for joining me.
Jonathan J Mentor: I'm really excited
to be here, Rosalyn, I'm excited that
we get to have this conversation.
It's been a long time coming.
And I hope that, you know, we get a lot of
nuggets out for your audience here today.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Awesome.
Thank you so much.
Really appreciate you being here.
So maybe before we dive in, let's talk a
little bit about your backstory, right?
Your career journey.
I mean, you have such a
broad range of experience.
You've held fractional marketing
leadership roles, you're a growth
mentor for so many organizations.
You've been, you know, a guest
speaker in numerous occasions.
You contribute to, you know,
contributing author roles ,and
even been an Account Executive.
So maybe can you share more about your
career journey and then maybe your
experience prior to starting Successment?
Jonathan J Mentor: Sure.
So I dropped outta college three times
and I had a daughter, she's seven.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Aw.
Jonathan J Mentor: Um, all that
while being, uh, Latinx, gay, brown,
underrepresented in New York City.
So these are kind of the first,
just to put it in the right context,
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yes.
Jonathan J Mentor: Of where I came from.
I did not grow around,
grow up around golf clubs.
So that kind of varied background,
that divergent experience, very much
led me to where it is that I am today.
So what ended up happening was,
is I've always kind of had like
a very entrepreneurial spirit.
And I tried my hand at various
different things and I navigated my
way through things like, you know, bar
attending and the retail, you know,
and then an opportunity presented
itself to penetrate corporate.
And again, you know, the entrepreneurial
bug, the 7% of the worlds who
actually have it like really came
out right my first year in corporate.
I always call it, you know, the,
the learning business acumen stage.
Hey, what's an email?
This is your agenda.
How do you sell?
Am I being sold to?
How to show up to a meeting?
When do I tr you know, the basic
stuff that you take for granted if
you've been in corporate for a while.
But then from there, you 2, 3,
4, and five, it was all about
growth and experimentation for me.
So much of the things, unfortunately
for them that I do now, I actually
presented in that setting to.
Moving the direction of growth because
I didn't know what it was that I had
locked in this brain was growth and
revenue, you know, all these things.
And, um, it led me to become frustrated
and I channeled my frustration into
doing more and more freelancing and
building more and more of my network and
sharpening more and more of my skills
and being more and more self-taught.
And removing more and more of my
limiting beliefs and code switching
less and less and less, and really
filling my seats and getting in front
of some important opportunities,
which I had to sacrifice for.
And those opportunities still left me
hungry and ambitious and excited and
curious and reaching all the time.
So eventually I found my way
around some really amazing mentors,
influencers, potential clients,
and they helped me to grow.
I helped them to grow.
And you know, all of a sudden now I,
here I am, you know, years later, is
being invited to speak on stages and
being flown out to different places.
And then I have, you know, the founders
and and principals from Techstars
and Parallel 18 and Black Ambition.
All calling to speak to me about, Hey
John, how are you doing this revenue
growth thing, what you kinda do?
And now I get to be the picker.
Now you have to dress up for me.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Love it.
I love it.
I love that journey.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
Um, let's talk a little bit
about the company, cuz I think,
you know, many companies are
created out of that need, right?
There's a need to solve a problem or
sometimes there's that "aha" moment.
Sounds like you've had a couple
of those kind of getting here.
But you know, it leads to this
idea for the company and I think,
you know, Successment, you know,
impact statement begins with that.
You know, we provoke economic
growth and visibility for
disadvantaged humans in tech, period.
Right.
How did the idea come about, right?
And what was that original vision?
You know, really over four years ago now?
Jonathan J Mentor: Everything
leads back to my daughter.
That is my purpose.
And my daughter is a little,
you know, black brown mix, curly
haired ball of energy that breaks
things and moves very quickly.
When I look at her, I see
myself and I see the future.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: And.
At the end of the day, there are plenty
of people that are very political.
I am not, there are plenty of people
that go on social media and they, you
know, wear the awareness and they do
the hashtags and they wear the t-shirts
and they pump their fists in the air.
And I'm like, that's all good, great.
And stuff like that.
But I'm a big fan in this country that
people listen to people with money.
And the more money you have, the more
influence and impact you have, and the
more influence and impact you have,
the more change that you can create.
And so I had to think to myself
in the history of the freaking
world, what are the ways that
people make a lot of money, right?
Because you can make money selling
toothbrushes or jumbo jets.
Pick your poison.
In the history of the world.
It's really been real
estate and technology.
Listen, I'm not gonna go from
house to house to selling anything.
So I said, technology is the path for me.
This is where my relationships are.
I understand it very, very well.
And the need that success
fulfills was focusing on the
under represented humans in tech.
Why we focus on revenue growth for
startups that are only diversely led
between the 1 million to 3 million market.
Now think about that Rosalin,
that's a very delicate position
to be in, but it's also critical
that you navigate that in the right
way before a million, eh, I dunno.
You signed, you still might be
kind of on Mickey Mouse time.
I don't really know if you
have different concepts.
Very different.
You know, the ideation.
Very different set of skills, right?
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Right
Jonathan J Mentor: above 10
million, 20 million, 25 million.
I always say this to my founders, you
know, affectionately, listen, if I can get
you to 10, 15 million and then you screw
it up from there, you're a knucklehead.
You don't deserve it.
Right?
It's really that sweet spot.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yeah.
Jonathan J Mentor: Between 1,000,010
where you really learn the most lessons,
gain the most support and learn if
you are truly going to gain traction.
And the reason why, another reason
why it's important to focus on the
spot is because with underrepresented
humans, we're talking Latinx, queer,
black female, whatever the thing.
There's a funding crisis and I know
that there's a funding crisis in VC
and Angel because out of the, you
know, multi billions of dollars just
in 2022 that were invested in tech
startup and leadership, that was bipo.
You know what the other, what?
The other 97, you know, 93
some odd percent white men.
Okay.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yes.
Jonathan J Mentor: And I have nothing,
you know, wrong with white men.
Some of them are cute.
The blonde surfer guys, whatever.
I do business with them.
They're great.
We'll have a coffee, but that's not
the economy that I'm trying to erect.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yeah.
Jonathan J Mentor: So when I see an
opportunity to cause cultural and
societal change through the growth
of revenue, doing things that are
positive and have long lasting impacts.
I do that through my special skill, which
is revenue growth for a very specific kind
of, kind of founder and startup at their
most vulnerable stage in the growth cycle.
And that's for me the way that,
um, Successment provokes economic
growth and visibility for
disadvantage humans of technology.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: I love that.
I love that.
And so I love the way you explain it too.
It's so easy to, you know, kinda step by
step of understanding why it's important.
Why here, why this focus area, why this
is a critical pitiable pi, pivotal,
excuse me, time for all organizations.
I love that.
Um, So I definitely wanna get into more
on the revenue side, but let's talk a
little bit more about diversity and such.
Cuz you know, I think when we talk
about, you know, diversity and equity
and inclusion and all this, you know,
there's been progress for sure has
been made, but I think, you know, many
organizations still, you know, they're
just not great at it, you know, and I
think, um, You know, how should you, you
know, from your perspective, how should
companies be thinking about this, right?
You know, what are you
seeing companies doing right?
And maybe what are they doing
wrong when it comes to being
more diverse and more inclusive?
Jonathan J Mentor: I, I get this
question a lot and I like it.
Um, you know, I'm by no means, you know,
disclaimer, I am by no means a coach
or any kind of HR or D&I professional.
I just happen to be a member of the club.
And I like provoking, uh, Thoughtful
and intentional conversations.
But if you ask me my unqualified opinion,
I'm very confident that one of the things
that a lot of companies in startup and
outside do wrong is they are not cognizant
enough about cultural sensitivities.
I always use myself as an example because
my appearance, for example, Rosalin
was like the last thing on the bus.
To go in terms of my confidence
as a professional, right?
I grew up, for example, hiphop culture.
Culture, New York City.
The people that I looked up to that
were positive role models, you know,
they were wearing the gold chains,
they were having fun, they were
listening in hip hop, you know?
And then you wanna squish me into
a corporate box where now I have
to tuck in my pastel button down
shirt and boat shoes so I can fit
in with you so you can respect me?
That's terrible.
That's not a conversation
that's had enough, right.
That cultural sensitivity.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yes.
Jonathan J Mentor: Because the trauma
that women and black and brown and, and
all the things have to carry is like,
there's so much energy that you have
to put into fitting in, in order to
be taken seriously and move forward.
Damnit like everyone else has an advantage
from the gate because they don't have
to carry that book bag on the damn bag.
Right?
Yep.
So one of.
I feel are, are fundamentally wrong
with the way that companies are thinking
about D&I is just plain visibility, bro.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: You wanna come
in to work in your Jordan's great.
You wanna come in and celebrate
Dominican Independence Day?
Awesome.
As long as you are giving the business
the outcomes that they deserve,
there is absolutely no reason why
you should be pressured to be in.
And it has such a domino effect, Rosalyn,
because, When, and it happened for me too.
I'm sure you've had this moment as
well, where you see somebody who has
the balls to be themselves as leader.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yes.
Jonathan J Mentor: Successfully
in a business setting.
And you see them, you're like, wow.
Like I can do that too.
Cool.
So now I can take this big old book
bag off my back and I can walk 10
more miles up the mountain because
now we have parity, you know?
And I remember like I remember the day,
like it was yesterday when I finally saw.
Another person dressed as if they
were, you know, walking around my
own neighborhood back in, you know,
uptown Manhattan or the Bronx.
And I was like, oh no.
But they're like really successful.
Everybody in the room is paying
attention to them like they're
influe and they can do that.
I wonder how they do that because this,
like, I'm hearing this sweaty suit.
I'm hot, I feel restricted, it's cut
my belly in half, I wanna eat this.
Yeah.
And you know, people undervalue
how much that means to people.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yes.
Jonathan J Mentor: Just to really
allow people to show up as themselves.
And I think it's, it's very
hard to, to govern that.
It's easier to govern things that
people can understand, like metrics
and how many diversity hires that we
had and how much money do we put in.
Like none of that matters.
Like I wanna walk into your office
and see somebody like in a basketball
jersey, like that's, you know,
because if you come from a different
culture, rosaly, like, I remember cuz
I grew up kind of this dual world.
Certain people, let's say that they
really do grow up in that sitting.
You know that this is what
they wear all the time.
This is how they talk,
this is their music.
You know, they're not trying
to be appropriate, like
that's how they were raised.
They don't have to check.
And it's interesting because now
that I run Successment I have.
Um, employees from the other
world, now they have to get me.
And I find it fascinating.
Fascinating.
You know, so I, I think in, in
a nutshell, companies should pay
attention and stop tiptoeing.
But rather to stomp about being very
visible in their policy for diversity,
equity, inclusion and belonging.
Cause that belonging piece
is often overlooked, but I
think it's the most essential.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
That's great advice.
And I love, I love the way you kind of put
things in perspective and give examples.
You know, I think the storytelling
is so powerful, right?
Because it's real life examples
that people can actually like.
I could literally see an image and see
that in my, you know, As you're speaking.
I love that.
Um, so let's dive a little bit deeper
into that because, you know, along the
same lines, you know, as a woman of Asian
ancestry, I've been in tech, I've been
in revenue like almost 30 years now.
Right?
So many times I've been the only.
The only in the room, the only woman,
the only minority, the only parent.
Right?
Even early on when, when my children
were small, even being a working mom was
a big debate like, should you even work
outside the home kind of thing, right?
You're gonna damage your children
for the rest of their lives
if you work outside the home.
And then being in revenue operations,
you're also a minority oftentimes
in the revenue group as well.
Um, so especially as my career has
grown, you know, kind of moving
up into leadership less and less.
Right.
Still see less and less.
So maybe, what advice do you have for
individuals who, you know, may find
themselves as the only, but they really
wanna grow their career, like others,
you know, how have you found success?
You know, maybe for you yourself
or maybe for your clients?
Jonathan J Mentor: I would say that that.
Being the only is a distinct advantage.
And I always, for my founders who
walk in trauma for so long and
they're able to recognize their own
trauma and then channel that trauma
into a powerful weapon, I always
give them this perfect example.
So Rosalin, I always work in
startups and startups, especially
at the million dollar market.
Oh, we're first to market.
What competitors like?
They always, and I'm like,
let me tell you something.
First of all, you're always
gonna have a competitor.
It's just not obvious to you.
And if you're a founder and you've
made it into this room and you've
generated X amount of revenue, You
most, your business most definitely
belongs in the business ecosystem.
And then I just zip it and
I look at them starting to
connect the dots in their head.
And the dots that they connect are, if
you can sit here and tell me that your
first to market and the only of your
kinds as a startup and a business and
you're about to crush it, how the hell
can you not feel the same way being
the only black gay man in the room?
And not being able to take over that
conversation being the only, you know,
cisgender Asian, fill in the blank,
shuffle the dice identity metric here,
that person in the room, and still not
be able to move forward successfully.
It's like I'm not a coach at all
Rosalyn, but dealing specifically
with the humans that I deal with.
You have to learn how to step out
of that trauma and say, today's
the day that I say, fuck that.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: I'm the only one
here, so that doesn't make me different.
That makes me special.
I am the white marble and the, you
know, the big old jar of black marbles.
I stand out and I'm going to
learn how to leverage this.
So for clients, I always say,
especially like almost invariably,
The founders have such an interest.
It's like the most
delicious story, Rosalind.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: And as you know, in
revenue, you know there are different
stages and cycles and what, and I'm like,
how amazing is it that you actually have
an authentic story to tell that will be
such an incredible driver of awareness.
You say in the future you
wanna be the new Amazon.
Can you tell me anything that
Emos for you from Amazon?
Do you feel anything with it?
No, absolutely not.
But your story with your very
specific market is emotive, and that's
critical to you growing in market
because you don't have to have like a
product distinction to grow revenue.
You could just have a brand
distinction and your brand
starts with you as the founder.
So you being unique and saying, yes, I'm
gonna step into purpose and say, Yep.
First generation Asian woman
here, and I'm actually brown.
I don't look like all the
ones that you see on tv.
No, I don't have an accent.
No, my last name isn't particularly
ethnic, but I'm still who
I am and I'm the founder.
Lemme explain to you how the hell
it is that I got here and how
difficult it was for me to navigate.
You're gonna have everyone at the
edge of their seat leaning in to
learn who you are, why they love
you, and why they wanna do business.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Well, great that.
Thank you so much.
I'm like, I'm so intrigued.
I'm like, literally like I'm missing,
like where I'm actually supposed to
jump in and ask you a next question
because I'm just like taken like
off this path with you and I'm like
thinking about what you're saying.
Oh, I can't wait till like
after we're done recording.
I cannot wait to go back and just
listen again and again to kind
of pick up all of these nuggets.
Super
Jonathan J Mentor: exciting,
Rosalyn Santa Elena: inspirational.
Love it.
All right, so I'll take a deep breath
and let's shift gears a bit and
talk about igniting revenue, right?
Your business focuses is on B2B
startups, their first 10 million
in revenue, like we've been talking
about, and as you said, this is the
make it or break it stage, right?
For, for many early companies.
So.
When companies are focused on that zero
to 10 million stage, you know, what are
the things that they should be doing?
What are those top priorities to
help ensure that they make it?
Jonathan J Mentor: Okay, so in order
to uncomplicate revenue growth, because
let's put it into context, revenue
growth, growth, marketing, hacking,
whatever, it, there's a lot of noise.
It's very noisy.
And certain things work
for certain people.
Certain things work for certain
industries for B2B versus b2c,
startup versus enterprise, and
there's a lot of kerfuffle around it.
So for me, I'm very clear on
the size stage and kind of
B2B startup that I work with.
It's a very specific growth stage.
And I wanted to uncomplicate that to make
it simple and give access to the humans
that have the potential to start to grow.
That intellectual property
is called Rev Op Science.
I'm gonna say that again.
It's Rev Op Science.
It's not Rev Ops Science.
Yep.
To me, Rev Op is very stationary.
Rev Op the collection of data
that's curated and governed.
Hand it off to leadership to make
better revenue growth decisions.
That's not where Rev Op Science is.
Rev Op Science takes those data
insights and puts revenue in motion.
So what we'll do is, is we'll
take all of the, what we call
revenue indicating metrics.
The ones that like, you know, marketers
and you know, all the high up data,
you know, they like to hide behind,
oh, look how many leads, or, oh my
God, look how much pipeline we got.
Are those revenue indicating?
No, they're not.
Those are nice numbers.
That you like to talk about because
you're nervous about reporting to me
on real revenue indicating metrics.
Right.
We unlock what those are and we use
those insights to put that revenue
in motion by way of actual campaigns.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: So rev ops science uses
data, use it qualitative and quantitative.
Lemme just start there.
It uses your industry expertise.
Because we're revenue growth experts.
We can also be an expert
in your technology.
Your input is critical and it
gives you three very important
things to start your journey on.
Growing revenue process.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor:
Progress and performance.
When we're talking process, what I
always like to do is I like to frame
the project management and revenue
growth piece first before anything.
We call our process boom, and
that stands for begin operate
vie and maximize in that order.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: In begin,
what you wanna do is you wanna
slow down so you can grow fast.
Most founders come to me at the
million dollar mark Rosalyn.
And they'll be like, well, we've
been doing A, B, and C, or we've
been growing and this is what
works, and I can't let go of it.
And I'm like, okay, that worked out
for you from 500,000 to a million, but
now you're in a conversation with me.
So what I need you to do is put
your gun away, chill, finish
doing your food, and let us know.
Slow down, look at all of the
opportunities and vulnerabilities
from a qualitative and a qu uh,
quantitative perspective, and talk
about how everything is so urgent.
But not everything is a priority, right?
Rosalyn Santa Elena: That's right.
Jonathan J Mentor: So let us
prioritize our new not go to
market, our back to market, okay?
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: And once we decide
what the, where the opportunities are,
they might be very divergent, um, from
what you originally had, and it might be
very different and unknown to you from
what you've previously been able to do,
but combine true revenue operation and
growth experience with your industry
experience and all the lessons that
you've learned from the platform.
Zero to a million, and we're gonna
have a pretty damn good picture.
Of where it is that we need to be going.
That's begin.
Now we can start to go fast
and that's the next step.
Operate, go right?
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: We go to
market by mapping, um, all of
the revenue opportunities to
five revenue generating pillars.
It's very uncontroversially cuz you
cause, uh, a human like you, you or
me or anybody on Google will recognize
it as, oh, this is like, um, a
buyer journey or a path to purchase.
Uncontroversial.
But what we do is we unlock where
the revenue opportunity is at
each stage of the buyer journey.
So we're not just focused on sales
and marketing and putting all that
incredible pressure culturally and
organizationally on top of them, like
you are the ones who generate revenue.
It's like, no, no, no, no, no.
At the awareness phase, we
can be generating revenue.
At the engagement phase, we could
be generating revenue at lands, we
could be planning for more revenue and
expands, we're getting more revenue.
And we do that by making sure that
we align the data in motion mm-hmm.
Between what most humans understand
as revenue, the sales and marketing
engine with customer success
and, uh, product and brands.
Because once you build those things
together, what you're doing is, is you're
gonna generate quick and dirty stuff.
Like, okay, lead generation.
You understand lead generation.
I know that that's not
gonna make revenue tomorrow.
You like focusing on that metric?
Great.
I'll feed you Lead generation.
What we really need to be doing in
parallel is demands generation, because
eventually we wanna lower our cac.
Do founders typically have all the
mental real estate to be changing
the world and focusing on the
correct revenue generating metrics?
Hell no.
Hell no.
They're out there conquering,
you know, universes and stuff.
So in the second step operate, we
get to market very, very quickly.
We find out where the revenue
generation is happening, which
areas need to be set up better,
and then we prioritize them, right?
Like this is fundamentally
a sales driven organization.
We need the founder in their
in the trenches doing sales.
Another one might be, you
know, what you've been going.
Um, from a B2B model and it's costing
you a lot of money and time, we
really need to switch gears, get you
a channel partner, and do B2B to C
That's gonna be the full swoop here.
Or you know what?
You don't need to spend money.
Actually.
I know.
Oh my God.
God forbid, Rosaly, you don't need to
spend money on a go to market motion.
You don't.
Why?
Because your product team is kicks Let us.
Your current customer base
and show them the yellow brick
growth to all your upsells.
That can be sales and
marketing that does that.
That is a fundamental
function of the product team.
So now the product team that has,
you know, traditionally been in the
background, the nerdy guys with the
big chunky glasses, coding and stuff,
it's like, no guys, we're bringing
to the front lines like we need to
focus on what the usage is here, what
the experience has been, what are
the surprises, where are the heat
maps on the usage of this product?
And we're gonna upsell in that direction.
And the ones who can do that, that's
not the sales person, cause they don't
know what they're, it's you product.
And this is very surprising to people.
But anyway, we let the cards fall
how they may in step to operate.
And then again, we do something
that founders, Hey, we slow
down so we can grow fast.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yep.
Jonathan J Mentor: So we
set a period of that back to
market or go to market motion.
And then we do a lift back period,
which have been our most successful
revenue operations, which are the most
successful channels, um, which has
yielded the most results, which one
need the most improvement, etcetera.
And then at that point we decide, which
is very controversial in revenue circles.
That's the only time when we decide to
deploy paid strategy because if we don't
understand and conquer on an organic level
our own community, Our own customer base.
Why would you sit there and
say, you know what, Jonathan?
We need to move faster.
You know, instead of you testing messaging
on, on an organic, you know, I'm gonna
give you $5,000 month to do the same
damn thing, but when now you have 5,000,
that's so, make my problem go away.
And I'm just like, that's
not how this works.
Right.
So once we unlock the organic, that's when
we move into paid, and this is called.
Obviate cause it's obvious to us what
we need to be doing to to, to grow.
And the reason why this is a
step in and of itself is because
this is the pressure test, right?
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: Doing business at
a million Rosalyn is a much different
volume than doing business at 500 million.
Do you have the infrastructure?
Do you have the customer success team?
Have you pressure tested?
What is the plan?
How are you gonna do this at volume?
Do you need to fill resources?
Do you need to scale?
Do you need another round of funding?
Do you need a physical location?
Let's look at all of the things.
And it's important to inject my, you
know, my tiny sprinkle of D&I in it
because not only is it important to me
and to success and to success ecosystem
of startups to grow in revenue,
but it's to grow it responsibly.
And defensively, you only get one chance
at a first impression as a startup.
So you're telling me you're as a
founder, you're gonna get hotheaded and
you're gonna say, oh, we got organic.
Our ads are working great.
Get me 5,000 new clients this month.
I'm gonna say to you, great.
Okay.
When your churn is 97%, I don't wanna
talk to you about another go, go to
market motion, because now we're gonna
have to go back to market twice as hard.
It's gonna be four times as
expensive, and then you're gonna
blame the revenue growth person.
Uhuh.
Let's partner smarter than that, right?
So in step three, that's what we do.
We make sure that the entire startup
ecosystem, which typically at this
revenue stage, is still rather young,
can handle this volume of new business.
Last step in the process is M-Maximize.
That closes our boom.
Maximize is again, it gets me in
trouble with a lot of the revenue
and the marketing guys cause I
kinda call them on their stuff.
It's remaining agile.
Remaining agile to
unexpected things in market.
Net new opportunity, net new vulnerability
threats, and being able to say,
right, we have this great strategy.
It really was the best thing
since sliced bread back in
January, because it were in July.
The reality is, is that this
competitor came out with that.
The reality is, You know, the White House
called you about your great invention,
and we're not just gonna sit there.
That's not part of the content plan.
So, you know, it's like, let's pass in
on what this opportunity and maximize it.
So that process, that framework,
constantly rejiggers the organization
and all of the strategies, tactics, and
resource in the direction of revenue.
Because at the end of
the day, boom is simple.
You look at it and you say, okay,
is this gonna lead to revenue?
Yes or no?
If the answer is no, then it's may.
It could be a, maybe I don't,
I don't wanna talk about it.
I wanna talk about is this
gonna lead to revenue?
And then my next question is when,
which brings us to the second piece of
rev up science, which is performance.
With performance, we try to make a kind
of a bargain between founder team and
deployment because we need to understand
what is your overall revenue goal.
All right.
How is each function of the business
brand, sales, marketing, customer
success, product, et cetera, how are
they all contributing to revenue?
Is it even really clear to them?
Are they measuring themselves
by the same metrics that you
are measuring yourself, right?
You're measuring yourself on, okay,
overall net new revenue growth, retention,
capital funds raised, whatever, but
talk to sales about what they're doing.
Ask them what are they doing?
Okay.
Close deals, um, polls,
pipeline metrics are, you know,
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yep.
Jonathan J Mentor: It's like two
different apples and oranges.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yep.
Jonathan J Mentor: Align them in
that performance piece, and then
when you align them and you remove
the fluff about these, or you know,
Departmental goals or whatever.
I don't care about the departmental goals.
Report that down.
Don't manage up to the founder
and talk about departmental goals.
I don't care about product.
For example, since we were talking
before, I don't care about how many net
new releases you dream about what, how
the net new releases leading to revenue.
Connect the dots for me.
I want you to draw a line between
what you're doing and revenue.
Same thing with marketing.
We need to generate, you know,
month over month net to generate.
Draw a line between 25% M-O-M lead growth.
And revenue.
And when you challenge that way, if you
have the right humans on your team, it's
gonna make them rise to the occasion.
Cause these are experts.
If you're an expert sales or
product or marketing person,
you're gonna say you're, yeah, that
shit isn't really gonna work yet.
I can't tap dance.
She doesn't care about that.
She really cares about like this.
Okay, the revenue professor,
what is marketing?
Let's focus on the attribution
piece and they will work for you.
That's which leads to the last
piece, which is now, uh uh, Say,
process, uh, perform it not progress.
Progress tells us what things
have we been doing as a team?
What are the things that we've been doing
as a team that lead to revenue outcomes?
Are we focused on the correct metric?
Things like, and then you kind
of build a scoreboard with it.
Things like, again, you know, how
many sales calls that I had, how
many net new releases did I do?
How many, you know, customer
satisfaction served that I don't care.
Report down.
I don't wanna hear anything about that.
What I want to report to me
on are the activities that
you're doing to impact revenue.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: What are those metrics?
And if your activity today didn't lead
to revenue tomorrow Understandable.
Give me a one.
Yeah, give me a timeline because I need
to understand that you're thinking as
intelligently and as passionately about,
uh, about revenue growth as I am, and
not just perfecting the function of
customer success or sales or brands,
or marketing or product, whatever.
So in a nutshell, when you lay it out that
way, and of course this is the podcast,
the visuals help you really unlock revenue
growth with rev op science by defending
your focus with a, with a steady process
that's in the direction of revenue.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: Monitoring that
with revenue facing performance.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: And then checking
on that progress and ensuring that
you're growing because some revenue
goals you'll set on the clock.
Some revenue goals you'll set on
the calendar and it's up to you,
you know, those two slices of bread
that your peanut butter and jelly
is leading to make that sandwich.
Because if not, you're really
just spinning wheels and that's
not how you grow revenue.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: I
love that so many things.
So me being a rev ops, you know,
and kind of go to market ops, um,
practitioner for so many years.
Everything you're saying, I'm just
like absorbing cuz I'm like, oh my
gosh, he's speaking my language.
He's talking about alignment and
forget about number of leads and
you know, we care about revenue.
Right.
And that's funny cuz that, I
don't know how many times I've
actually even said that to people.
It's like, how does this tie back
to the, to the revenue numbers?
How does this tie back
to the overall goals?
We don't care.
You know, we don't care about that focus.
Those are all the.
Activities and things that you
do to get there, but tell me.
Right.
Um, and the other thing you said
about just kind of thinking about
marketing and sales, but what
about like, what's happening within
each step of the customer journey?
Right?
And some of those areas where you
can make small tweaks, even if
it's 1%, 2% improvement, that's
gonna end up in the overall, you
know, improving your outcomes.
So yeah, you're just like
speaking my, my language.
I love it.
Um, Yeah.
You know, I mean, I think as I think about
the revenue engine, you know, in this
podcast, I'm always hoping others will
obviously be able to accelerate revenue
growth and power that revenue engine.
So I think we've talked about a lot,
a lot of those, those things, um,
that can really help founders and
revenue leaders really be thinking
about like, wow, these are things
like, Should be thinking about today.
Really that mindset shift even about
stop thinking about calls and number of
leads and visits to the website and start
thinking about some of those other things
that are really impactful to revenue.
Um, but maybe from your perspective, are
there a couple things that you say, Hey,
people should really be thinking about,
you know, if you're a revenue leader,
you need to be thinking about this.
Like right now, today, are
there like two or three things.
Jonathan J Mentor: It, it de I, I'll
say yes, and I also say, I wanna
put it into context because the
world of startup is very different
from the world of enterprise.
And being an in-house revenue
leader is very different from
being an outsourced revenue leader.
I'll speak to the startup crowd because
this is where I, you know, this is where
I bug in and go to happy hours and boats
and stuff with my friends now for me.
Yeah.
You know, that's what you
get when you grow revenue.
People take on boats.
Now for me it's that understand that
the unspoken thing for you as a revenue
leader if you're dealing with a founder,
is you're invariably in competition with
their thirst, hunger, and obsession.
On raising a rounds of capital,
if you can show them that growth
can mean different things, okay?
You're gonna be a hero because if you
have a founder, and this founder is
obsessed with dollars in the bank.
It doesn't matter if it comes from
you, the revenue growth ex uh,
leader, or if it comes from their VC
yay, we got more money in the bank.
That's growth.
To me.
It's like, okay, let us break into
what we can do as revenue leaders
or what we can change the world.
Because as a revenue growth leader,
what you can do is introduce
that, you know, almost Mickey
Mouse Mermaid unicorn fantasy.
That's called community
and product led growth.
What?
No, no.
We gotta be hitting them sales calls, man.
We gotta get on the play.
You know?
We gotta get Google in here.
We gotta get on the Fortune
Five and we have to.
No, it's a big PR push that we need,
man, because if we get into four,
it's just that in our little Slack
channel with our paying customers,
let's just have a conversation.
Why would you know?
Why are we spending so much time on that?
We're not gonna generate
revenue for months doing that.
Okay, so give me my months and
I'll give you your revenue.
Let's walk you through why?
Because if at the revenue level
that we're at now, I can't remember,
Rosalyn, I'm on the 10 million crowd.
You decide to, you know,
deal with your receipts.
Your equity in the company is
gonna get smaller and smaller and
smaller, and the terms are gonna be
more and more and more predatory.
And your, uh, your opportunities are gonna
get smaller and smaller and smaller if you
continue, um, depending on capital raise.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: Right?
Especially if you need it, because
then the terms are on their terms.
Now imagine a world where we're
already generating, I don't
know, a hundred thousand, Okay.
Do you think that a VC is gonna
come and try to piss on your lawn?
No, they're not.
Because you already understand
what your superpower is.
What absolutely any business' superpower
is the thing that no one in the world
can touch your community because
you could be selling a commodity
if you wish, but there's a specific
reason why your customer went to you.
And when you unlock and you lean into
whatever that motivation is to do bus
business with a particular startup, when
there are so many options in the universe.
That is where the money is.
Why us?
Why now?
Why this amount of money?
Where else are you spending money?
What else can we offer you?
How are we making you comfortable?
Why do you hate us?
Why did you complain?
Why that review?
Why did you go away?
Why did you stay for this
long and not that long?
Unlocking all that data
and spending that time.
And I understand when you're dealing
with founder type personality,
it can seem so uncomfortable.
They wanna move.
You know, it's, we're
sitting on our hands.
Sales are, you know, I wanna hit the bell
when we hit our sales goals and stuff.
You can't ring a bell cause you
finished a qualitative listening tour.
It's not sexy.
But as a revenue leader, you gotta sell
it to the founder and say, listen, you're,
we're in competition with the clock.
We're in competition with our runway.
Don't put me in competition with
the process because I'm telling you.
If we do it this way rather than
the way that you know and understand
a big expensive go to market
push, where is the opportunity?
We don't know.
We don't know.
Don't pretend like I know.
Don't point your finger and demands
that I know because the only ones
who know that is our customers.
And if you don't allow me time to
evaluate what the customers want.
Right?
Then I'm not gonna get you an effective
back to market or go to market motion.
I'm gonna get you something that
you're recognize while you're
out looking for, uh, investors.
And God forbid you don't raise your round.
You're gonna be pointing
your finger at me.
Talk about where's all my
revenue did give times.
What I wanted you wanted me to do was go
and do a TikTok influencer campaign and
that's what you thought was gonna sell us.
You know, the next million
dollars of revenue.
That's what you thought, right?
Data doesn't have feelings.
Lemme be the revenue partner that you need
in order to unlock those opportunities.
As a revenue leader, these are the
things that you should be focused on
in terms of revenue growth, using your
data to tell the compelling story and.
It can be intimidating depending on
where in the, you know, revenue leader
universe you are in-house, outhouse,
you know, enterprise, whatever.
Cause you know, everybody wants to
keep their job at the end of the day.
But if you're the brilliant revenue
partner that comes in with a very
divergent set of not only expectations,
well benchmarks of what you're
measuring with a clear line to.
This is how we are going to grow
without any outside interference.
Like you are the Maharaja
of the revenue operation.
You know what I mean?
That's.
Use your data to come up with the
most compelling argument for your
goal to market or revenue growth
motion and stick to your damn guns.
Because if all you do is tap dance on
the founders and the VC's time to do
what they recognize and they're setting
goals for you, when you yourself don't
know how that connects to revenue.
The writing is on the wall.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Thank you.
Thank you.
That's great.
Uh, well thank you so much for joining me.
Um, but as we wrap up, before I let you
go, I always ask my guests two things.
One, you know, what is the one
thing about Jonathan that others
might be surprised to learn?
And this might be hard because you're
a pretty open book, um, but two, you
know, what is the one thing that you
really want everyone to know about you?
So something that others might be
surprised to learn and something that
you really want others to know about you.
And they can be the same
thing, I think a lot of times.
They end up being the same thing.
Jonathan J Mentor: Well, as
gorgeous as I am, I'm single,
so I need to find a husband.
So I think that's really surprising.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: That is surprising.
Jonathan J Mentor: No, that's, um,
no, from a professional perspective,
I think that, um, something that's
likely surprising to no about me
is, is that through my journey,
I've been 1000% self taught.
So my whole tr not mine cuz I
definitely let me be very careful.
My team.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan J Mentor: Their breadth
of experience and challenging and
reaching with me has led us to a track
record of unlocking startup growth.
10 and 15 ish million dollars at a time.
And we've never lost a client.
We, we parted ways with one client
because their revenue grew to a stage
where they were not throwing things at me
that I was just like, I don't even wanna
pretend I know what you're talking about.
If you wanna do, then go
to this guy over here.
He does enterprise.
He like, he's does that, like
that, that stage, cuz that's
a different set of skills.
But other than that, it's, it's
like we've ne like never, you know,
like folks come to me and they're
like, you know, if they're arms up
and you know, you gotta recognize.
I'm not trying to sell to you.
I'm actually trying to
find out if I can help you.
If I know enough about where it
is that you are to help you and if
they come to me, all, all armed up.
Well, well we're gonna
need a testimony baby.
I'll FaceTime my client
right now on iPhone.
Lemme turn my camera on and show you.
Hey sis, how you know?
She's right here.
You wanna ask her any questions and
look her up on LinkedIn right now?
This No, I think that that's interesting
that I'm really that down to earth.
Like I really do text all my
founders and you know, Listen to
all of their stories and hear about.
All of the growth and, and, and the
way that they think about things.
Like I'm, that, I'm that guy.
Like, I like to hang out with my clients.
It's, it's a lot of fun.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Oh, I love that.
Well, thank you so much for being
on the podcast and just for sharing
so many, so many great insights.
Um, you definitely spoke my
language like, throughout and
lots of points resonated with me.
And like I said earlier, I cannot
wait to go back and just listen
to the entire episode again.
Um, but thank you so much.
This has been so great and this is gonna
be so impactful for the audience as well.
Jonathan J Mentor: Good.
I'm glad, Rosa.
Well, if anything, I'm here so you'll
let me know you need anything from me.
I look forward to seeing the episode.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Awesome, thank you.
Jonathan J Mentor: Alright.