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Garage to Stadiums is one of the Top 5% of podcasts in the world. From the bars to the arenas, learn the fascinating stories of how our biggest rock music legends made the leap. Each episode reveals the stories, songs and little known facts of the journey from obscurity to fame of one of rock music’s biggest stars. Join us on Garage To Stadiums as host Dave Anthony teams up with an author of a rock biography or director of a rock documentary to explore that journey, their early years, the stories behind the scenes, their top songs, and their place in music history.
Learn about the passion, talent, luck and even scandal that often came together to propel these stars from obscurity to household names.
GARAGE TO STADIUMS
Episode 19: The Story of Billy Joel
Speakers: Dave Anthony (host)
Guest: Fred Schruers
Dave Anthony 0:01
Dave, Hi there. I'm Dave Anthony, and this is the Garage to Stadiums podcast rated as one of the top 5% of podcasts globally. On each episode, we tell you the story of how one of our music legends rose from obscurity to fame and play some of the songs that mark that journey. Welcome to garage, to stadiums. Today's story is the story of Billy Joel, born in Long Island New York in 1949 Billy grew up a fan of early rock and roll, and with over 160 million records sold worldwide, Joel is one of the world's best selling music artist and is the fourth best selling solo artist in the United States. Billy was a hit making machine via his 12 studio album releases in the period of 1971 to 1993 and as you will hear, Billy has had his fair share of ups and downs over the entirety of his career. Billy has carved a space in music history as a down to earth lyric writer with a blue collar background here to discuss Billy Joel's life and career from its beginnings to its stadium culmination, is Fred truers, author of Billy Joel, the definitive biography. Fred is a long time feature writer for such publications as Rolling Stone and the LA Times, and we're thrilled to have him here today. Welcome to garage, to stadiums, Fred.
Fred 1:29
Thanks so much for having me. This is a pleasure to do.
Dave Anthony 1:35
We are going to talk today about Billy Joel and as I was doing my own research, and as I said in the intro, the fact that he is, you know, one of the top four or five best selling solo artists in the United States. When you sit back and look at the totality of it, it's it's incredible.
Fred 1:56
It's a career with ups and downs. But he's persevered Absolutely,
Dave Anthony 2:01
and that perseverance, we're going to get to it, because the ups and downs are numerous here in this story, tell us about Billy, where he grew up, and you know, his early life as an adolescent, because that in itself, was quite interesting to observe. It
Fred 2:19
really is. He was born May 9, 1949, the kind of cut to the chase of his emotional history is the dad left when Billy was seven. You know, they were living in, basically a housing development in Long Island, the sort of famous one, because it was, it had various covenants. It was completely whitewashed housing development, you know. And it was for families on the rise after World War Two, you know. Five years later, Long Island was expanding. Robert Moses in the great Robert Caro book about the master builder, Robert Moses, Power Broker. He there were highways suddenly, and there's always good train service. So he grew up in a thriving suburb with great access to the city, but it was almost a village life, you know, in the sense of you knew your neighbors and your orbit was confined in about 10 square miles, largely. So he grew up as a cosplay Italian guy, right from a Jewish family, not an especially observant Jewish family. There's a picture of him. It's in the photo section of the bio, where he's playing with a record kind of chewing an LP sleeve. And behind him is a Christmas tree and Jeff shock, his longtime great friend and aide de camp, who was a great assistance to me as I did my research, he said, Just a Jewish boy trying to assimilate. You know, there's a Christmas tree, but so he can joke about that, but he's not without his loyalty to to the tribe for one of a better word. And he did wear a Star of David at a particularly momentous time, a concert where there were worldwide threats, as there always are, to somebody being sectioned off and made other so he's got a high consciousness of the injustices, you know, various religion that various people meet. So he grew up with that awareness, but not emphasizing it, and he made such a good, you know, hitter kind of guy, complete with the boxing narrative, that people always took him to be like a regular Italian guy in in the best sense of that word, a regular Long Island guy hang out at the mall and sing do up in the bathrooms at the beach. Yeah,
Dave Anthony 4:43
yeah. He went to Catholic schools. He hung out in Italian neighborhoods. He with friends, etc, like he basically. But you know, the interesting part that you sort of illuminated was the grandparents actually fled Nazi Germany, and you. Uh, you know, ultimately, uh, went through via Cuba to get to the US like it was. It was quite the backstory to to think that, you know, but for fate, you know, Billy Joel isn't in Long Island,
Fred 5:13
absolutely so. And he said something very akin to that. And I'm glad you focus in on that, because it's a key part of the story. There's an awareness of European history and how his own particular family was decimated. Is the word people always misuse, you know, literally, it's a 10th of something is gone, but it was more than a 10th of his family. And in the great Beatty, B, E, A, T, E, Thalberg video. She was an Austrian filmmaker. She visits with him and with his step brother, his half brother, Alexander, who, of course, is a very credentialed musician in Austria. They visit the graves of various Joel family members and his you know, helmet was the name of his dad. Originally. His dad, Carl, Joe K, A, R, L, had a thriving linen business. He was a big brand name and a certain town counselor, which was a euphemism for a Nazi. You know, finagler decided he wanted that business. So Billy's family is under threat. They flew, fled, got themselves over to Switzerland, to neutral country and safety, safe until they decided to come to America and were rejected at the port. There was a limit of 42,000 I think, emigres from the war torn part of Europe to America. So they were shunted away from the New York Harbor, sent down to Cuba, and thus Billy's father was in a middle school with Fidel Castro. So it's a small world of history. Isn't that crazy? So that's history. And finally, the US had a heart and opened things up, and instead, started a pretty thriving career, basically as an itinerant salesman in the electronics business, such as it was then, but finally fled to Europe. I'm sure they had a branch in Austria, which is where he settled. So Billy was growing up in the company of his mother. You know, the the subject of the song, Laura,
which we can also discuss, because there aren't too many songs about people's moms that have that kind of, oh, subdued anger to them. I guess his mom could really wind you up.
Dave Anthony 7:54
Apparently. Was she just overbearing? Was she critical? It's a fair word,
Fred 7:58
you know. It was, and she would call him up on the road, even the early and notable success didn't quite satisfy her. She was just always worried about him. And Sister, Judy had her own kind of emotional problems. Thus, Oh, I hate to cut to the suicide attempt. Well,
Dave Anthony 8:18
actually, let's do that, because, you know, we talk about the, you know, growing up and, you know, the father fled, single mother money's tight. Billy has, you know, he doesn't finish high school. His famous quote is, I'm not gonna go to Columbia University. I'm going to Columbia Records, he says, and he tries a series of bands you know that that don't have much success, and that leads us to pretty critical point with a suicide attempt. He's
Fred 8:56
the kind of guy who can tell good joking stories about it, but we have to take that somewhat seriously. You know, people always say in a dismissive way, it's a cry for help, but it was a pretty loud cry for help. And there were two, really. There was the Old English furniture polish, try, and he's made that into a funny kind of a joke story. Yeah. So I was sitting there in the hospital, you know, farting Old English onto the leather seats. But nonetheless, it said that this was a guy in crisis, and Judy had some prescription meds. I don't want to invade her privacy too much, but either she allowed him, or he found the meds and he took an overdose. And as he would say, again, with that humor, it's indefatigable humor of his. He said, I woke up and I said I missed it, you know. So two tries is pretty authentic emotional problems. So I have to give him a lot of credit for the strength he's shown over the years. Because. Whether or not he's clinically depressed kind of individual isn't for the likes of me to to judge, but he's fought through some issues clearly, yeah,
Dave Anthony 10:09
yeah. And it certainly is a prelude to some more issues that are that are coming after. You know, the one unsuccessful part I found very interesting when he starts with his compatriot or his partner, John small in a band, and that group is disbanded once Joel begins an affair with John's wife, yes, and that sort of puts a rift between them, obviously, like he ends up marrying Elizabeth,
Fred 10:39
yeah. And there's struggles embodied in all of that, but John small was a terrific interview for me. They ultimately remain friends. You know, John races out to the West Coast where Billy had fled with son Sean, with their son, the son of John and Elizabeth. John was a terrific interview. He's a very smart, very cool cat, and I remember him saying to me, yeah, that's the part where it gets squirrely for me. I said, yeah, that's pretty squirrelly. Your best friend in band, mate, John was the drummer, of course, and famous for the band Atila, but he ran off to the West Coast, and John went out there in search of them, and he had a private detective, and they ended up knocking on the door, and it turned into a little drinks party in the motel. So it's just one of those stories. I think fans who see Billy up on stage don't really glimpse hell the vicissitudes of the early life for Billy, early life solo, early life as a band member, early life as a friend with all these issues. So Elizabeth comes along, and she's not easy. I of course, met her in researching my book. And Elizabeth
Dave Anthony 11:52
Weber, or Weber Weber, is what stuck. So, you know, if we backtrack to some of the influences of Billy, we you know, he cites, like many performers. I mean, I think on virtually every show, the performer cites the February 1964 Beatles appearance on Ed Sullivan, which showed so many people being in a band was possible. You could do this. You too can get a guitar and try this. And in those succession of bands. You mentioned John small, the period with, you know, with Elizabeth, the affair, and even the suicide attempt, which happened, I guess, in 1970 but now we're entering that singer songwriter era, and Billy is going to become a solo performer with his first album. And he gets, I guess, a lucky break a little bit when one of his tours after that first album comes out, gets a little bit of airplay, that Captain Jack song of Philadelphia station starts to play. It is that correct?
Fred 13:07
Yes, Ed Scott Key was a DJ of influential FM DJ, and that's how you would break out back in the day, it got a lot of FM airplay, and the role of Philadelphia in his career is not to be dismissed, because that was a breakout moment. And of course, if you go from not quite Washington DC, but from Philly up the coast through New Jersey to New York and out to the island, that's the Billy crescent and Ed Saki had so much to do with that. Absolutely
Dave Anthony 13:39
the FM broke so many artists who otherwise wouldn't have been heard when they moved to Los Angeles. So Billy and Elizabeth, who's now his partner, they moved to Los Angeles, and as you said, John chases them because they have John's and Elizabeth's child, but nevertheless, they end up in Los Angeles, and Billy starts working because the first album didn't sell at all, really, he ends up working in a hotel lounge, singing under the name Bill Martin, which will soon become part of legend, because something happens from that that is arguably his biggest and most well known hit, yeah,
Fred 14:20
Piano Man, the
Speaker 1 14:24
waitress is practicing politics as a businessman slowly get stoned. Yes, they're sharing a dream they call loneliness, but it's better than drinking alone.
Fred 14:40
It was really a businessman's lounge. Very much is described in the song, and those are the characters, and the waitress is practicing politics. That's Elizabeth. So she was flirty and attractive, and she was making tips. She was probably pulling more money down than. Billy, you know, they put right in my jar while she got those tips, you split some with the bus boy. Billy's share of the take from the walk ups at the door. There was going to be trouble. So anyhow, these are some of the colorful characters that populated that LA chapter and gave life to, you know, Piano Man, the the never to be forgotten, piano, man song, yeah.
Dave Anthony 15:41
Your book certainly illuminated the details around that song with the waitresses and the patrons and Billy himself at the piano. So, I mean, I think people have heard that song in so many bars played by a piano player that it's become legend as a in the songbook of America. The next album, I guess, after Piano Man was the street life Serenade, 1974 a couple songs the entertainer
Speaker 1 16:05
I learned by doing twice, but still they come to haunt me. Still they want their say. So I learned to dance with a hand in my pants, and I broke my neck and I write imma check technique, los
Dave Anthony 16:17
Angelenos. All
me know, in this period, I guess you know, soon thereafter Elizabeth becomes his manager. Billy says, Why don't you just become my manager? I guess she's a pretty tough cookie from your description, plenty
Fred 16:42
tough something she did that kind of infamous Elizabeth anecdote. They were playing in Cuba, which was a very forward looking thing. And there was the early Billy Marxist for one of a better term, you know, yeah, we'll go play Cuba. And that was the era when he'd be on stage in a jersey like it looked like an orzat version of a New York so this is like 7374 ish, yeah. But she's running around, and she's telling the people who had been assigned by the label and paid by the label, you turn that camera off, you're not filming him. We don't have a piece of paper basically authorizing this. So was that a managerial miscue? Perhaps we'd all love to see that footage. He went down a storm, as the old showbiz saying has it? So, uh, though it didn't bring him much notoriety of publicity back in the States, it was a telling moment where he saw he could command the crowd almost anywhere. You know, Rock and roll's universality starts to occur to you when you're playing to some Cuban folks who barely know who you are. So yeah, Elizabeth's interfered there. But Elizabeth made a lot of stuff happen, and she groomed the label deal well.
Dave Anthony 17:59
He made his own prophetic statement come true by saying, I'll be working at Columbia Records. Not going to Columbia,
Fred 18:04
absolutely. And that's still the label.
Dave Anthony 18:06
So Fred, the that period that 74 street life serenade is followed by Billy getting tired of the West Coast. He wants to come back to New York, and that leads to turnstiles. 1976 album, which I think people kind of forget, because the run of albums that's about to happen is incredible, but that album has a few key tracks the in the Billy catalog, obviously New York state of mind, which tells of his love for New York
Unknown Speaker 18:45
I'm In a New York state of mind,
Dave Anthony 18:50
Miami, 2017 I
always, which I believe would be a commentary on, sort of the state of New York in the mid 70s, with all its troubles that it had bankruptcy, and, you know, kind of talks about a disaster hitting New York,
Fred 19:16
sure. And the headline, the famous headline in the tabloids Ford to city drop dead. So Billy had a very adverse, or productively adverse reaction to that, and he got on a Greyhound on the Hudson River line. And he was riding up to this spot, this lovely spot overlooking the Hudson near West Point, very scenic area, and he basically composed the song on the bus, came in, went to the piano, which Elizabeth had the foresight to install in their new home, and out came, you know, New York state of mind, Miami, 2017,
Dave Anthony 19:56
absolutely. And you mentioned the song earlier. Say goodbye to Hollywood.
Was on that album, and I guess the other song that's interesting is summer Highland falls. No we choose between reality
Unknown Speaker 20:25
and madness, either sadness or euphoria.
Dave Anthony 20:32
That's really a nod to mental health and depression at some levels, is it not?
Fred 20:37
Oh, it's either sadness or euphoria, which is kind of a description of what they all used to call manic depression, or even bipolarity. He, um, those who are true, true center bets, and I think it's one who's the most beautifully written and and self accompanied songs. He, I don't think he wanted to be a new Dylan. He was never part of that pack, but I find that song to be somewhat Dylan esque and smart and just melodically, it's an outstanding Billy track. So I think you're right to settle on Eric.
Dave Anthony 21:13
And this is where, you know, you kind of get astonished by the extent of the catalog, where the next album, The Stranger, 77 just the way you are,
Unknown Speaker 21:25
take you, just
Unknown Speaker 21:27
the way you are moving out.
Unknown Speaker 21:31
If that's what it's all about, Mama, if that's
Unknown Speaker 21:35
moving out, then
Speaker 1 21:42
I if that's moving
Dave Anthony 21:47
only the good
Speaker 2 21:53
day, only the good
Dave Anthony 21:59
she's always A woman,
Speaker 2 22:00
and the most she will do is throw shadows at you, but she's always a woman to me.
Dave Anthony 22:09
Vianna, waits for you. Don't you know that all the fools are satisfied.
Unknown Speaker 22:13
Dream on, but
Unknown Speaker 22:16
don't imagine
Speaker 2 22:20
they all come true. Ooh, when will you realize Vienna waits for you?
Dave Anthony 22:28
10 million copies of this thing got sold. 52nd Street follows in 78 with my life. I don't care what
Speaker 2 22:37
you say anymore. This is my life. I life,
Dave Anthony 22:47
Big Shot,
honesty,
Speaker 3 23:03
honesty is hardly ever heard, and mostly what I need from you
Dave Anthony 23:14
another seven or 8 million copies and then glass houses spent six weeks 1980 at number one on the Billboard charts. You may be right.
It's still rock and roll to me.
Speaker 1 23:41
You spend a lot of money. Everybody's talking about the new sound funny, but it's still rock and roll to me. Don't ask me why.
Unknown Speaker 23:49
Don't ask me why.
Dave Anthony 23:56
And sometimes a fantasy fool, oh,
I mean, this guy was churning out hits. This is kind of like the run that, you know, a lot of artists cite with Bruce Springsteen, or the stones they have these four, you know, killer albums in a row. This is Billy's, yeah,
Fred 24:20
that's such an array of songs that's there was a reason. The very good New Yorker profile by Nick poundgarten said Billy Joe the 33 hit wonder. You know, it's crazy, and that's why people go with that productivity. What's stopping him now? But he performed a very high standard, I think, as we've been discussing, these songs are pulled from the real fabric of his life, and his life settled down, sometimes up, sometimes down, various marriages. I think the material you know, the coming of age of a young man aging into an interesting kind of maturity. Right? That's that period that we're talking about, and the stranger, just the fundamental concept of the stranger, there's somebody in us who's part of us we don't really fully know. We're still discovering. That's a
Dave Anthony 25:14
great point. We had Peter Ames Carlin on, who's written about Springsteen. And he said, you know, Springsteen started out as a young man. You're writing about your experiences as an early 20s, and then, you know, your age, and you start writing about, kind of the confusion of where you are in this whole thing. And ultimately, he writes, you know, Springsteen writes about commentary on society. And that's kind of where Billy starts going, you know, with the Next albums into Allentown.
Good night. Saigon,
Unknown Speaker 26:01
like tameless horses.
Dave Anthony 26:11
And so the introspective songs become more of a commentary on the outside world. It's like he's moving outside his own thinking into sort of observing
Fred 26:19
absolutely and he's never claimed to be a spokesman for more conceptual societal things. You know he, he'll dodge that, because he's an unpretentious guy, basically,
Dave Anthony 26:34
but he's intelligent, like in your book you talk, he talks about societal issues, and it's interesting to hear his take.
Fred 26:40
Yeah, I mean, Allentown think, I don't want to turn this into something political, but the folks in Allentown, you know, our Fathers fought the Second World War, took their girlfriends to the Jersey Shore, start their
Unknown Speaker 27:02
weekend some
Fred 27:05
war that was a real world. And again, it's that Eastern, very eastern sea coast kind of world. But he honed in having played in places like Allentown. What
Dave Anthony 27:16
I want to talk about right now is this is a crazy situation. His wife and him split up in 82 he was managing him. And as you said, Frank Weber, the brother in law, Billy's brother in law, Elizabeth's brother, he in turn, sues his sister and says, Billy, I'll take care of you. And Billy's impressed, because he's like, Well, wait a minute, if you're going to fight your own sister to protect me, I do want to work with you, because you're a businessman and you can help me. Oh, it's such an interesting time. If you read this in a script for a movie, you'd go, that's not believable, no. And I want to get to the litigation that ultimately happens. But in the meantime, here, he's just divorced Elizabeth, and somebody famous appears on the scene, and they get together, and that's super model, Christy Brinkley, yeah. And he eventually marries and has a daughter with they get married in, I guess, 83 ish, something like that sounds right. And you you mentioned your love of the Doo Wop era. It's kind of the innocent man album starts. It's really a tribute to the Doo Wop groups of the 50s and 60s with songs like the longest time I want you so
Speaker 2 28:34
bad, I think you ought to know that I intend to hold you for the long
Dave Anthony 28:45
Uptown Girl,
Christie, appears in that Video, which got heavy rotation on MTV. This guy has a pension for being attracted to a succession of women, and he seems to want to marry them all. Well, Christy's the latest in 83 How did that affect his life? So
Fred 29:13
much of what I got from Christy, though, he brought me over to meet her and hang a little bit. And she was very welcoming. She's got nice houses on Long Island. She played her real estate cards really well. Anyhow, yeah, it was a sudden love affair. He goes down to St BARTs on the advice of Paul Simon. They they were in a studio, and Billy goes, I need a break. It's winter. I hate this. And Paul goes, well, don't go to one of the former slave colonies. Go to st BARTs because it was never colonized. So cut to Billy, who's wildly sunburned because he fell asleep in the sun or something, playing piano at the little local hangout club where only rich and wealthy people go. And clustered around the piano are Christy. Was l already part of, yeah,
Dave Anthony 30:02
you mentioned in the book Elle McPherson, another supermodel who's 19 at the time. Billy's 33 he's kind of dating Elle McPherson. Elle has
Fred 30:11
a memoir just coming out, which I've got to get my hands on. It's called uptown girl, so it's not like anybody's running away from the legend, right? And as he pointed out to me, and I see I saw quoted in a review of her book, it was really uptown girls, but he rewrote it to focus on Christy, and thus we have him dancing across the one filling station in downtown New York with Christy dancing. And her lifelong complain is they gave me high heels. It was such a hot evening that my heels are digging into the, you know, the tarmac, the anyhow, Christy was a great love. It didn't last forever. Well,
Dave Anthony 30:52
interestingly, you know, I guess during that period the bridge album comes out with, this is the time a matter of trust.
Which interesting a matter of trust becomes kind of prescient in that Christy, of his wife, warns him. She goes, there's something not right about this Frank Weber guy, yes, and she turns out to be pretty insightful, because Billy has to end up suing Frank for $90 million and you outline that litigation, I mean, what this guy did to Billy is just dreadful
Fred 31:33
powerful. So Frank was not a good citizen in those days, and that lent a lot of credibility. When the lawyers came along to help Billy out, they really were finding evidence of fraud and mis mismanagement, to say the least. So a settlement was eventually reached. Some money still come out to Billy from Frank the
Dave Anthony 31:56
litigation. I mean, my goodness, what this guy did? He 2.5 million in loans were given without Billy's knowledge, to various horse breeding and real estate partnerships. Weber lost more than 10 million of his money in investments of highly speculative nature. This is all part of the the filing. He double billed Joel for his music videos, cheating him on expenses, including travel and accounting fees. He mortgaged Joel's copyrights for $15 million without disclosing it. He used financial, phony financial statements to trick Billy into believing everything was cool. And ultimately, Christie proves to be right, because the suit goes forward. But as you said, 90 million becomes something like 3 million as the settlement, which is just a joke, really. It
Fred 32:45
became more symbolic because there was plenty of money coming in now, under more proper management.
Dave Anthony 32:51
Let's get to Christy and Billy ultimately break up. There's a couple albums in there. One actually interesting song is from the storm front album 89 and you tell the story of how Billy and Sean Lennon were chatting. And Sean, son of John and Yoko, said, Billy, you were lucky. You grew up in the 50s. You know, life was great and and, you know, look what we have today with wars and Middle East and this and that. And Billy said, Hey, man, it's always been a pretty dreadful world. Which leads to the song, we didn't start the fire.
Fred 33:48
Khrushchev, I mean, Joe DiMaggio, Jackie, Kennedy, who? You name it. So, yeah, that was another song. It's probably one of the more frequently played songs in any given set list. And again, one of those near novelty songs that happens to just be kind of a banger at the same time. And
Dave Anthony 34:09
then he goes on, I guess, after and this, I want to get to the personality of Billy, because another marriage goes bad with Christy. And then he meets Katie Lee, who ultimately becomes a well, she was a college grad, so he was 55 she was 23 she goes on to become a celebrity chef of note. But, my goodness, he then he has a third wave, 33 year difference. You know, now, let's get back to Billy's personality, because presumably, you talk a lot about his alcohol issues, mental health struggles, I guess is what I'd categorize it under. And then, sort of, seemingly in these series of marriages, let's talk about his personality like what it's obviously leads to a success, but some of the challenge. Are pretty interesting too here, I
Fred 35:01
think fans would be reassured to know he's fundamentally the nice guy you want him to be, you know, which doesn't really address why the marriages broke up and stuff. But Katie Lee was in New York with some friends, and I think they were in the bar of the Peninsula Hotel there, and Billy was there, and they met, and he said, you want to come by and see a show? The show happened to be Billy's musical, The Twyla Tharp musical, moving out, and I think that was one of the rare evenings where he probably jumped on stage, you know. So that's pretty impressive. Then they went out to a fancy dinner, and the flirtation soon evolved into romance. She would
Dave Anthony 35:47
have been near Billy and Christy's daughter's age. I would think, yeah,
Fred 35:53
there's no questioning. If I watched rock stars and movie stars over the years, you're going to date whomever you can date, and it's going to be some what certain people would call age stretching limits, but they weren't really meant for the ages. Billy and Katie Lee, I thought you're nice, just like something I'll say about a rod Alexis Roderick, that's the is that the present wife, and, of course, the mom of these delightful new daughters, that's the
Dave Anthony 36:29
fourth wife in the story. Correct? There you go. It's interesting how you know you talked about the overbearing mother, Rosalynn at the beginning. He ends up with Elizabeth, who's a real tough cookie. He ends up in the hands of Frank Weber, another tough cookie who's almost, I guess, corrupt at some levels, is Billy, just an innocent guy who thinks highly of everyone and doesn't think poorly. Is that how he gets into these situations?
Fred 36:57
Well, that's an interesting point of departure to address he's also very canny, and he has a lot of trust. You know, an innocent man is not the wrongest song title for a guy like that.
Speaker 2 37:13
I'm only willing to hear you cry because I am an innocent man. Man,
Fred 37:24
he wants to believe that people are of good will. I think it says something the people around him, Brian Ruggles, who does the sound, Steve Cohen, who does the lights, and really is the eminence of set lists and stuff. Most of the band. You know, there have been replacements of the band over the years, not always done in the kindliest manner, but if you have Billy's trust, you're good to go, you know. So when people betray that trust, it hasn't ruined his perspective on things, you know, and people like hanging around. I've never seen him yell at somebody, and I was under foot a lot. And
Dave Anthony 38:09
speaking of still being there, he goes on 2014 to 2024 he does a 10 year residency at Madison Square Garden, grossing about 2 million a month. Just an incredible legacy that this guy has. What do you think Fred is his place in music history? Who will what will Billy be remembered for? He
Fred 38:31
was the soundtrack of my life now. Bean is almost exact contemporary, growing up in New Jersey. Yeah, he what's coming out of the am radio, WMCA, W ABC? WABC, it's a lot of Billy. So we will have our personal Billy moments. I mean, the first doctor I got in, LA, he's saying, Well, what's your history? I said, Well, I did Billy. Joel book. He goes, Oh, yeah, of course. I got married. That was what we played at my wedding, you know. I said, You and what army you know at their wedding, yeah,
Dave Anthony 39:04
just the way you are. And all these songs, I mean, they're all played at weddings. My goodness, yeah.
Fred 39:09
So it's, it's like saying, I try and rip your da out of your cells. He Billy. It's all Billy, all the time up there. In some ways, the songs are hits for a reason, great melodist, great singing delivery, but Billy, being so strategic musically and so informed musically, knows how to ring the best out of his voice, you know, and when you see him there at the piano, and as people know, and is briefly referenced in the book. It's a simulated piano in certain regard, so he can change a key with a twist of the knob and play in what would have been the old keys. Guy, what kind of algorithm does this? I don't know, but just musically canny, not to forget the classical music. Training, yeah,
Dave Anthony 40:01
that's a great that's a great point. Fred, he had classical music training. Sure. You
Fred 40:05
know, he'll he's not going to hit any clinkers. If he does, he's not going to stop the band and go, Oh, rock and roll, fuck up. Just little moments I had early on. I realized how deep that training was. My wife and I were in Japan when the tour started that encompassed Australia, and he's sitting in this little smoking lounge, so Mozart comes on. He says, Yeah, you really hear the chromaticism from that era of Mozart. Wow. Okay, he's talking the talk, you know, he knows he's he will whistle a whole Beethoven symphony to himself while he's wandering around, you know, making Italian food. So that deep kind of knowledge, that deep musical knowledge, but also about what works, you know, he's not looking for big guitar solos. He's his piano playing is fun, but it's always fun, tuned to something enjoyable, you know? So I think it's the great, and I say this with respect the great middle class of rock and pop music, you know, you can't get around him. I was interested that Olivia Rodrigo was interviewed by the New York Times, and they said, you've got your favorites. You're the older artist. She goes. Billy Joel is everything you know. Piano. Today.
So she was then the kind of tailors over there, all those young, smart songwriter girls. There's a moment, a really prized moment for me. And it was a, there's a photo of it I snapped in one of Billy's boats. I was down there doing stuff for the book, researching his house in Miami. And we spring scene drives down, I casually say, and we get into one of those, the landing craft boat, which would be an exact boat someone like Billy would get. And with his captain gene, we ride across to an Italian restaurant and to sit there at lunch in the Italian restaurant, and watch these two guys talk about their awareness without any braggadocio, their shared awareness, we kind of hit the gong at the right time when FM and Turing and growing command of our art, they wanted to put it that way. Brought us to this visibility and brought us to a kind of a career peak. And Weren't we lucky? And we are lucky to have them doing it.
Dave Anthony 42:29
You must have done something right when Ray Charles inducts you into the Hall of Fame, of rock, rock and roll, Hall of Fame,
Fred 42:36
and Ray says to him, Billy's out there. Ray finishes speech, and he says, I got your brother. Come on up.
Dave Anthony 42:45
Hey Fred. What three songs should the audience give a listen to to either get a flavor for Billy through the ages or unheard cuts that you think, or just some theme that you'd apply to say, hey. Audience, Billy Joel, here's three you should listen to. Well,
Fred 43:02
I'll give you, I'm sure these three. Rolling Stone asked me, When the book came out, to do a selection of 10 songs that I really liked that I'm such a cheese ball because I love say goodbye to Hollywood for the Phil Spector in it and the way he delivers. And again, if you can say banger about a man of my age and his age, that's a banger. Longest time I like again, more Doo Wop. I'm really showing my age, but I think that's really a sweet song. But the one, if I hid one favorite, I suppose it's River of Dreams, which is kind of career capping we didn't know it when it came out. And that, of course, is from the last album, Famous Last Words was like a late cut on the late album. And River of Dreams, it incorporates these gospel elements that I thought were so smartly arranged. Oh,
it's about a songwriter's journey, or anybody's journey. It can universalize itself. I just find it emotionally a very touching and evocative song.
Dave Anthony 44:23
We've, uh, today, been speaking with the author of Billy Joel, the definitive biography Fred. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you here. We really enjoyed your uh, giving us the insights on Billy. Well,
Fred 44:37
thank you. I really enjoy your podcast. And, uh, you show deep homework, and I'm happy to talk about him because, you know, it became a friendship, really. And maybe, if that clouds any critical judgment I might have, he's still that really solid guy, and I'd like that to come through to people, right?
Dave Anthony 44:56
Well, I think you did a great job of showing both sides. Of Billy, the challenges, the triumphs, and really the man behind it all. So thanks again.
Fred 45:08
Thank you so much. See you next time.
Dave Anthony 45:14
Some closing notes on Billy. Joel Billy started piano lessons at the age of four upon his mother, insisting he learn. But a boy in Long Island, playing piano wasn't received so well in his day. Joel took up boxing when he was a teenager to defend himself when people made fun of his piano skills. He even became part of the Golden Gloves competition in Long Island. Billy spent a day and a half at the 1969 Music Festival Woodstock in upstate New York because he wanted to see Jimi Hendrix play, but as he said, the bathrooms were so disgusting that he left Joel's drummer, liberty Devito confirmed that Rosalind Joel Billy's mother inspired the swirling Angry tune that we spoke about today with Fred schrewer as our guest, that contains such lyrics as Laura calls me in the middle of the night, passes on her painful information, and I am her machine. She can punch all the keys. She can push any button. DeVito hinted that Laura became the title because it has the same number of syllables as the word mother. Billy barely knew his German father, Helmand, later known as Howard, a classical pianist who fled Germany during the Holocaust and made his way to the Bronx, where Billy was born. When Joel was in his 20s and in Europe, he hadn't seen his father in over a decade, but heard his father was in Vienna, where the two had a visit. Billy also has a stepbrother who is a classical musician in Austria. Remember the song, big shot with the lyrics, you had to be a big shot. You had to open up your mouth. Well, Billy told Howard Stern in 2020 that he wrote it after having dinner with Mick and Bianca Jagger, and imagined the lyrics describing Mick's thoughts towards his then wife. Despite Billy being born to a non observant Jewish family, he attended mass as a boy. Growing up in Long Island, Billy had a lot of Italian American and polish American Catholic friends, so he went to church with them on Sundays. He even went to Confession. Billy has admitted, I don't look like a rock and roll star. He told Details Magazine, I look like the guy who delivers the pizza. And he left Hicksville high without having completed His work. But in 1992 he turned in some missing essays and got his high school diploma. According to record industry stats, Billy Joel's US album sales stand at 81 point 5 million units, 6 million ahead of Michael Jackson. That puts him sixth all time, behind only the Beatles Elvis Garth Brooks Led Zeppelin and the Eagles, thanks for making garage sustained one of the top 5% of podcasts in the world. We'd love for you to follow our shows on your favorite podcast platform so you can be alerted when our next episode drops. Follow us for some great music history content posted on our social channels, Instagram X Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube. Our YouTube channel has additional bonus coverage from our interviews, visit us at garage to stadiums for more bonus content on all the bands featured and links to great downloadable playlists on Apple and Spotify special, thanks to our guest today, Fred schrewers, author of Billy Joel, the definitive biography. And thanks to our producers, Amina faubai and Connor Sampson, our program director Scott Campbell, Creative Director Chad Raymond and video director Nigel Campbell, you've been listening to garage to stadiums. I'm Dave Anthony. See you next time for another garage to stadium story. You another blast furnace labs, production. I.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai