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Welcome to the podcast. We call it TWICV. It is our effort to provide a fast-paced, entertaining, and alternative voice to the propaganda and hype flowing out of colleges in America today.
This week in College Viability is a proud affilate of The EdUP Experience podcast network.
Gary (00:02.91)
Welcome to yet another episode, a special episode of This Week in College Viability. Hi, my name is Gary Stocker and today I'm talking with Albi Salsa, who is from Raven Eye Consulting and we're going to explore higher education from a kind of a focused area today. First of all, Albi, welcome. Thanks for making time to join me.
Alby Salsa (00:23.164)
Gary, thanks for having me.
Gary (00:24.834)
So I'll be your organization, Raven Eye Consulting, and that's R-A-V-E-N, provides both enrollment and retention solutions to your higher education clients. Talk a little bit about your company and the higher market niche you think you fall into.
Alby Salsa (00:40.904)
Sure, yeah, thanks, Gary. And first and foremost, before I jump in, I am a fan of the show. I've been listening to your episodes. I like the This Week in College Viability episodes when you go through all the data and the news. I was just listening yesterday, and I like these special episodes too. So thanks for the work that you're doing. Yeah, man, for sure. So yeah, Rave and I, we're a boutique higher ed enrollment management consulting group.
Gary (00:58.07)
Well, thank you very much. I appreciate those kind words.
Alby Salsa (01:09.24)
And what we do is we partner directly with colleges and universities to help them accelerate their paths to enrollment gains. I started the company two and a half years ago because I saw a big need in the market. And frankly, the, what I observed was that the marketing and enrollment consulting space had become sort of like the OPM market, really big contracts. What I perceived as colleges not really getting
the bang for their buck in most cases when they were partnering with consulting groups. And I felt like there was a need for an alternative to those options that they had. So I commit to being super flexible and adaptable to our clients' needs, creating client-friendly contracts and terms and really accelerating their path to results. I've seen the templated readouts that some of these leading...
higher ed consulting companies provide. Um, and when I read through them, I get frustrated because I feel like they're doing their clients a disservice by, um, just kind of taking this templated approach. And I think that some of this work that they're doing is really solid, which is, you know, that's the only way that you can become a larger company is if you're doing good work. But I also think that some of the work is kind of become canned and vanilla, frankly.
So we, we offer a set, uh, you know, like I said, an alternative and a set of marketing, enrollment, and student success capabilities to our clients, um, ranging from operational assessments to staff training, to, um, staff recruitment. We've worked with, uh, large name brand institutions to smaller, um, regional for-profit brands, um, large community college networks, four-year privates, four-year public. So we've worked in every, you asked about kind of what segment or what niche we're in.
We've worked with institutions from all different segments of the industry. Each segment, as you know, has its unique set of needs, and each client inside of those segments has their unique sets of needs, and we pride ourselves on being able to provide personalized value. So as I mentioned before, we partner directly with colleges and universities, but we also have developed quite a bit of successful strategic partnerships with other service providers.
Alby Salsa (03:27.664)
We partner with marketing consulting companies. We partner with call center companies to provide package solutions to our clients. And in terms of me and my background, I've led enrollment operations for service providers, like InsideTrack. I've led enrollment strategy and solution delivery at Blackboard. I've also worked on, within the university administration, I've ran enrollment operations for Brammon University. I kind of set that whole thing up.
prior before they got acquired by UMass Global. So I've been on both sides of the house and really simply put what I do is I, my sweet spot is I set up and I fix enrollment operations.
Gary (04:10.07)
So it's February 2024, and there's probably more than one elephant in the room. Let's talk about the most recent elephant in the room in higher education. And I'll be that's the fast of delays. What are you hearing from your clients about the impact of those delays? And what are you sharing with those same clients about how to work your way through that?
Alby Salsa (04:31.856)
Yeah, well, it's interesting that you asked because I actually just made a post about this on LinkedIn this morning, some recent news that, did you see that the DOE announced they're throwing $50 million at this problem to set up a concierge service and to put some boots on the ground to help under-resourced colleges? So anyhow, yeah, I mean.
Gary (04:49.386)
Yeah, I saw that, yeah. I did see that.
Alby Salsa (04:54.648)
I'm seeing and hearing the same thing that you're probably seeing on social and in particular on LinkedIn. Clients are anxiously awaiting the FAFSA info as we all know by now, or if you don't know and you're listening, the DOE announced that.
the information that will be provided to colleges and universities has been delayed to March 15th from previously the date was January 31st, which was already a delay. So what I'm what I'm seeing and observing is a scramble and some anxiety, some, you know, really kind of contemplating a couple of things around like, should we push our deposit deadline back? Some institutions are doing that already. And but really, how can we communicate with families? And I think that, you know, what I'm seeing, Gary, is like, this is just
bringing to the surface. And it's really more of a microcosm of a larger issue that I see within the four-year private sector with recruitment. And you're not, and it's around communication. You're not going to change anyone's mind with an email. And so much of what I observe is like, hey, what emails can we send out and how can we set up an FAQ? And it's so much of it is like knowledge-based. They're like, what pieces of information can we share out?
Gary (05:54.487)
haha
Alby Salsa (06:08.1)
And obviously that's important. People need to get their questions answered, but what's missing? And I think what's missing in general with recruitment in the four year sector is like this personalized outreach and even more detailed than that personalized outreach via the phone.
and actually having personalized conversations with parents and prospective students. And here's the thing, I think that there's a concern about outreaching to your families if you don't have all the answers, and that's okay. I think the fact that you're actually taking the time to call and people hear your tone of voice and your genuine concern will reinforce their commitment to maybe a 10-year institution. And even I saw R&L, somebody from speaking of a larger consulting firm, posted around like the...
You've seen all this data, Niche puts it out, Arno puts it out, and they survey their families around like who is the most influential person in terms of making your decision when you choose to attend school for a traditional age college student. And it's like parent number one, admissions rep number two, right? So if you're an admissions rep, why not call and talk to the parent and to the students? It seems so logical to me, right? But what we hear is we hear objections all the time around phone. You know, it's like, hey, there's...
The list is too large. We don't have enough resources. Well, you know what? Okay, so if the list is too large and why don't we segment that list down and figure out who you wanna call, get a smaller list. It's simple to me, right? Or we don't have the technology to do it. Well, let us help you figure out from a long-term investment perspective how to set that up. And finally, you know, the other thing that we hear a lot is kids don't wanna talk on the phone these days when you'd be on TikTok when you text. And that's...
Gary (07:42.28)
Ha ha ha.
Alby Salsa (07:44.652)
Hey, look, I get it. I have a college age college bound daughter who's going to college this coming fall and I get it. I know that kids aren't using the phone the way that maybe you and I do, but the parents are so, um, I guess this kind of elephant in the room, sure. But it's just really bringing to the surface. Some, I think some core, uh, challenges from a cultural and a operational perspective in the four year private sector.
Gary (07:53.39)
haha
Gary (08:09.986)
Well, let me just throw a Gary Stalker thought out there, Albie. And if you have some comments on it, great. And if you don't want to comment on it, that's fine as well. But I'm thinking about this FAFSA situation. This is beyond what I focus on. So I'm a little hesitant to do too much with it. But FAFSA data has been around for a while, right? And all colleges have the FAFSA data from their student populations from the last some number of years. Is it reasonable to...
Alby Salsa (08:14.024)
Let's hear it.
Alby Salsa (08:23.875)
Okay.
Gary (08:36.798)
operate this year for the colleges that want to go back and look at that historical FAFSA data under the premise that their student population is going to be pretty similar from year to year, both demographic and financial, and use historical data to offer financial aid for 2024, if for no other reason than to get a jump on their competitors and even maybe end some of the anxiety from some of the students and their families on getting that financial aid so they can make it an
Alby Salsa (09:01.192)
Thank you.
Alby Salsa (09:04.644)
Yeah, I don't know. And, you know, like you in a little over my skis with, with those sorts of details related to, um, awarding strategies. But, um, I, I would ask like, how would you do that for an incoming class? Would you just create personas and similar profiles with other students and then award based on that? Is that what you're thinking? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, they're, I'm sure that somebody out there is already thinking about ways to put that together, but I'm not sure.
Gary (09:24.107)
Something like that, yeah, yeah.
Gary (09:32.202)
Okay, okay. And I've talked to some folks about that. I think I posted something similar this morning on social. I just, just my two cents of that worth the idea on the whole FAFSA mess. So let's change the topic a little bit and go back to economics 101. It's been a long, long time, obviously, since I've taken Econ 101, I don't know about you. And the supply and demand and the way it relates to higher education. And I make this statement often to my podcast, guests and others. And it goes something like the enrollment
Alby Salsa (09:46.46)
Sure, let's do it.
Gary (10:01.906)
and finance challenges that we have in higher ed are based on the law of supply and demand. And I further contend that there are not many, if any, programmatic changes that colleges can make that would generate materially significant new revenue. Now, this is your chance, Albie, to say Gary, you're nuts or Gary, you're right. Take it either way. I'm good.
Alby Salsa (10:23.091)
Ha ha!
Alby Salsa (10:27.64)
Well, you might not be wrong. I'm not sure I think I think that what you're highlighting is that well If the challenge I think with what you said is if you're a university leader and you hear that I wouldn't want to the message to be
Alby Salsa (10:45.64)
to kind of create paralysis. Well, there's nothing we can do. So I do think that now more than ever, colleges and universities should be undertaking a regular review of their program offerings. And I think about this from the perspective of product fit. And a lot of what the way that I view and the way that I talk to my clients is, I view this as running.
a business, right? So if you think about it from the perspective of a product fit, how do your products, or in this case your programs fit within the market needs? And not only from the perspective of the major, but modality. You know, and are you really leaning into micro credentials or not, for example? And are you diversifying your student base and ultimately your revenue streams or not?
And if we talk about the four-year private sector again, and I feel like that's a good sector to stay on since we're talking about FAFSA, if you are an institution that is hanging your hat on the traditional market, and I know you talk about the eight-year trend a lot in your app, you show the eight-year trend and whatnot, I guess maybe it's nine-year trend now, but if you're one of these institutions that has the eight-year trend going down on enrollments, and you...
are not really leaning into the adult market. Like now might be the time to identify if there's an opportunity to capture some of that market in your local community in the adult market and specifically with potentially micro-credentials. I'll come back to that because if you look at like Western governors, I wanna say that the president shared last year that, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think it's 40% of their enrollments now come from employer partnerships, right? And there's a reason why the guilds of the world, the guild has done so well.
Gary (12:26.1)
interesting.
Alby Salsa (12:31.668)
And, you know, we are at RavenEye, we just, I'm really excited about this recent partnership we just started in Q4 and we're actively working on it now. We're helping one of our clients to build out their employer B2B partnership strategy and framework to go develop tuition reimbursement partnerships and to develop corporate trainings and extended education opportunities for the adult market.
in their regional market. So I think those are the sorts of things that I think are really, really important that I think maybe contradict a little bit of what you're saying, but I don't think that you're totally wrong. Yeah.
Gary (13:05.23)
And you make a good point on the paralysis piece. And yes, I do that with intent. And one of the main reasons I view my role is to lovingly, but seriously, and sometimes with tongue and cheek, help college leaders think beyond that private box. And if it involves me being a little sharp, like we talked about earlier, taking an attitude, which I know I do with intent.
Alby Salsa (13:10.716)
Mm-hmm.
Alby Salsa (13:27.624)
Mm-hmm.
Gary (13:31.006)
I think that's my role and I, you've got to know, I don't think you and I have talked about this and I have my own list and it's 200 plus strong of private colleges that I don't think are going to make it. Now I'm not ever, ever going to share that list with anybody, but I use it for my own purposes. And if I'm right, let's go, let's go back for a second. What if I'm wrong? And there's never ever again, another college closure for the next five or 10 years. All right.
Alby Salsa (13:42.426)
Hmm.
Gary (13:59.598)
It's not a likely scenario, but I'm wrong. But here I think is a more important question. And again, I will never ever identify an individual college and say, I'll be, obviously, the university is gonna close. Never gonna do it. But here's the big question. I'll be, what if I'm right? What if I'm right and we're looking at an increasing rate of private college closures and public college consolidations that goes even beyond what I can envision or you can envision or anybody else can envision? What happens then?
Alby Salsa (14:29.964)
Yeah, I don't know. And I would actually say, well, let me ask you a question. Why are you not sharing that list?
Gary (14:38.754)
I'm trying to argue both sides just for the sake of discussion. I think I'm right. I think there will continue to be a higher rate of closures. And it worries me. How is the market going to adjust? And if I'm wrong, well, then I provided some content, some thoughts for folk to help make me wrong and I'm okay with that. I don't think it's a likely scenario, but I worry that I'm right. Then we've got more issues than anybody can address with any certainty at all.
Alby Salsa (14:41.839)
Yeah.
Alby Salsa (14:46.63)
Yeah.
Alby Salsa (14:52.454)
Yeah.
Alby Salsa (14:57.529)
Yeah.
Alby Salsa (15:02.532)
Well, I think about the parents. I think about the parents. Maybe it's just because my daughter's going away to school and I'm that persona right now, I'm living it. And...
I have, uh, it's interesting that, you know, my friends and cousins and whatnot, they all have kids who are about the same age as my daughter, right? So they know that I work in higher ed. So they're all hitting me up and asking me questions for the first questions were around, you know, what's up with the past, but, um, I did send the link to, um, one, a webinar, I think you have a, um, a webinar you're hosting. You gave various time slots on your website. I signed up for one of them. I'm not sure.
Gary (15:30.263)
Hahaha
Alby Salsa (15:42.106)
if you saw that, but I forwarded that link to a buddy of mine because his daughter is considering a variety of private schools. And I think that, you know, the work that you're doing is so valuable for that persona for the families and for the kids. So I would say there's an argument to be made that, you know, while publishing that, it wouldn't be great for the institutions and I could see why. And I'm totally empathetic to that because a lot of my colleagues are running
Gary (15:59.918)
I hope so.
Alby Salsa (16:11.728)
from the perspective of what's best. Ultimately, we should be of service to the students, right? And what is best for the students? And it might be releasing the list. I don't know.
Gary (16:22.158)
It's a fascinating time and I hope to contribute something to it in a positive sense. But I know most of my content is, guys, be careful. Be careful. It's a mess out there. And I want to go just to one last question, Oliver. And I want to talk about graduation rates. And I'll talk about the 2024 College of Viability app. It's about ready to go out the door. And I was altering back and forth between making a free version of the app for enrollment for the last eight years available to anybody.
Alby Salsa (16:31.14)
Yeah.
Gary (16:50.29)
or a free year of the four year graduation rates, eight years worth of data for all the private colleges and eventually all the public colleges. And I decided to go with the graduation rate one. And here's why. The enrollment one is important, but it's an indirect measure of colleges health that all is associated with tuition fees and revenue. But we have, I think it's more than 50% of all public and private colleges graduate less than half of their students in four years.
Alby Salsa (16:56.152)
Mm-hmm.
Gary (17:20.214)
That scares the bejeebers out of me. What about you?
Alby Salsa (17:23.888)
Yeah, I, you know, when I got, I cut my teeth in higher ed working in, um, on student retention initiatives. Are you familiar with the organization called Insight Track? Um, I started with them. Yeah. So, uh, and we were back then we were primarily doing student retention work, but yeah, I mean, here's the thing. I think we all.
Gary (17:34.757)
I think so, yeah.
Alby Salsa (17:46.7)
have seen the data, but yet when it's time to make decisions, I don't see us acting in a way that is informed by the data. And the data says that it costs a lot more money to go recruit a new student than it does to retain one. Right. But yet every project we get pulled into it's even though I have a background in retention and my colleagues do too, we get pulled into funnel management. Right. And I think it's because there's more of a
Gary (18:00.919)
Yeah.
Alby Salsa (18:14.716)
direct correlation and attribution between activities and performance. And so anyway, with student, yeah, it does concern me. And I think that if what I try to guide my clients to is like, let's get really focused on like a phase of the student journey. Cause when you think about graduation, it seems pretty overwhelming graduation rates. It's like, okay, this is a six year measure. But if you can get focused around like, how can you help your students have a really strong start?
Right. And having a strong start is so important because what it does is it helps you have a strong first semester and ultimately strong first year. And then you come back for your second year and all of the data shows that now I'm talking about the traditional enrollment cycle again, fall to fall retention. If you can get somebody to your, if you can get somebody to your two, the likelihood of them graduating. It's like the big cliff is between one year, year one and year two. And the big, and the big reason behind the cliff.
All the qualitative information I've looked at says it has to do with those first couple of months, right? So, and when you start unpacking, like, okay, from the moment that somebody is, um, doing their orientation and sort of like the moments before they arrive on campus or even an adult learner, right? Even an adult learner when it's virtual, what does that look like from a student experience perspective, um, to help them build a sense of belonging and a community called that's called community on campus and how are we, um,
removing unnecessary friction points in that phase of the journey. So I think if you can get really, like, really, really laser focused on this idea of how do you help people have a strong start, you're gonna start seeing big gains from year one to year two, and ultimately it flows down the graduation.
Gary (19:59.538)
And then just a quick follow up to that, and then I'll wrap this up, is do you think that graduation rates will increasingly become a selling point for colleges that do well, as opposed to those who don't graduate 50% or more?
Alby Salsa (20:14.928)
Well, it should be. I mean, I would certainly hope so. I mean, here's the thing, Gary. I think that institutions just in general need to really take a regular view and refresh of what their value propositions are.
And if you have a graduation rate that is high or significantly higher than your competition or than the national average, you need to be promoting the heck out of that. Um, yeah, for sure.
Gary (20:46.69)
Yeah.
Gary (20:50.186)
Well, I am grateful for your time this afternoon. Albi Salsa, who is the founder of RavenEye Consulting, as R-A-V-E-N-I-E-Y-E, consulting, and I'll provide a link on the show notes, has been my guest. Albi, thanks again for making time. I wish you continued success with RavenEye.
Alby Salsa (21:08.304)
Great. Thanks, Gary. Appreciate that. Hey, thanks for having me. Really appreciate the time.
Gary (21:12.304)
And anytime good conversation, I appreciate it. And we'll be back soon with another edition of This Week in College Viability. My name is Gary Stocker.