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Discover The Humanity of Homelessness, a podcast from Church at the Park that brings you honest, heartfelt conversations with people experiencing homelessness, community leaders, and staff.
John Marshall | 00:08
Welcome to the Humanity of Homelessness. I'm John Marshall and this is a podcast from Church at the Park in Salem, Oregon. Since 2007, Church at the Park has created community with our neighbors living outside. Today we get to offer collaborative navigation, emergency sheltering, workforce development, and supported housing for our neighbors in need. In each episode, we hear from a member of our community who is experiencing or has experienced homelessness. We invite them to share their story in their own words so that they, and we, might remember their goodness, their courage, their hope, and their humanity. You can find this podcast wherever podcasts are found, and it is helpful to us if you subscribe and share episodes that inspire you. Thanks to everyone for tuning in and joining us as we celebrate good news in the hardest, most unexpected places. Today is a special edition episode. Instead of a staff member or participant, we get to interview a friend of Church at the Park, Kyle Dickinson. Kyle is the executive director of Salem Leadership Foundation. The beloved son of the one who holds all things together, Husband to Joy, Dad to Mia and Nathan. He has a bachelor's degree in international and intercultural communications from Sacramento State University. And an MBA from George Fox University. He has studied at Fuller Theological Seminary. Kyle has been a campus pastor, a small groups pastor, a development director, and a fundraising consultant. He loves to encourage, organize, and inspire people to get involved in kingdom causes, and to be generous with their time, talent, and treasure. His favorite authors include Tim Keller, Henry Nouwen, KJ Ramsey, Brené Brown, Patrick Lencioni, Kate Bowler, Jamar Tisby, Seung Chan Ra, and Justin McRoberts. Kyle is a diehard San Francisco Giants and Portland Trailblazers fan, and he loves good coffee, the Oregon coast, and fantasy football. We're so grateful for Kyle's friendship to us at Church of the Park and his willingness to be on the podcast today.
So Kyle, thank you and welcome.
Kyle Dickenson | 02:04
Thanks, John. Happy to be here.
John Marshall | 02:05
Yeah. Well, what has your world been like this week? What is on the agenda of a executive director for SAM Leadership Foundation right now?
Kyle Dickenson | 02:15
Sure. Well, I go from... One meeting to the next. Oftentimes I need to have a prepared agenda. To lead meetings, but I occasionally get to sit in on meetings that are led well by others and just be a contributor.
So Lots of gatherings with other community leaders. And we are constantly in the work of building connections or creating connections. All with an eye toward creating a better sense of belonging, increasing overall community health, things like that.
John Marshall | 02:49
Yeah, I like the way that you framed it. Those projects. And I'll eventually ask you specific questions about what SLF is up to in the city and the way it's positioning itself to invite some of those collaborative spaces.
Before that, I just want to talk about you and let you talk about your own story. And always the easiest place, especially in the framework of this podcast, because. We're inviting people to think about what it means to experience houselessness or homelessness.
So for you, what is the first definition of home that you remember? Where did you grow up? What were the early years of life like?
Kyle Dickenson | 03:26
Sure. I was born and raised in Redding, California.
So very Northern California, where it's very hot and very beautiful. And, My childhood... Was really fun. I was outside a lot, played a lot of sports. Soccer and basketball were kind of my two main sports that I like to do. And some real fond memories from growing up was my family would take Road trips. To places like Seattle, Washington, where they were originally from.
And then we would go down to San Francisco to go watch the giants. And, I can still remember the first time going to candlestick park and never seeing something.
So just stunning in terms of the size of the field and the green of the grass. And then I Had to watch the Giants lose to the Dodgers in the very first game that I saw, and that set me on a trajectory of loving the Giants and hating the Dodgers.
So, you know, darkness and light, whatever. Yeah, it's fine.
John Marshall | 04:32
There's pain in your story.
Kyle Dickenson | 04:33
Yeah, that's right. There's balance in the universe, I guess.
Yeah.
John Marshall | 04:37
Okay, so you grew up in Reading. Where were you finding... Your own sense of identity forming through your you know, early elementary, middle school, high school years, what were the things that you were engaged in that allowed you to feel and develop a true version of yourself in the.
Kyle Dickenson | 04:53
World? Sure. Sure.
So a lot of those influences and those experiences would have happened at school, at church, and then playing sports. So that really, I think, formed a lot of my sense of what is a team? What is my place on the team? How do I get good at the thing that I'm doing on the team? Or how do I even excel in a classroom? Things like for-.
John Marshall | 05:17
That. You went to Sac State I did. Undergrad, how did you end up there? What were like, what were the things that allowed you to decide that was the place you wanted to.
Kyle Dickenson | 05:28
Study? Yeah, sure.
So I did my first two years at a junior college at Shasta College in Reading. And then I only applied to one. Or your and that was Sac State University. And so it was far enough away from home where I had a sense of that I could be my own person in a new place and discover some new things. But it was close enough to home when I needed to go home and do laundry and connect with family and friends and things like that.
So there's a bit of security there. But Sacramento really... Was a transformative experience. That's where, I got connected with a group called InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and met just a number of people who just, they talked about Jesus differently and they treated each other in a way that I had never seen before. And as far as, Building a community where people could belong, where needs were taken care of, people really paid attention to what was happening in other people's lives. And they really collectively sought to try to make the campus better and try to be a place where people wanted to be a part of the group.
So, That was a powerful experience.
John Marshall | 06:42
One of the phrases I just caught you say is, "They spoke about Jesus differently." Can you add specific examples to what that.
Kyle Dickenson | 06:49
Means? Sure. Sure. Well, it, they talked about Jesus like they had just had like coffee with him, Yesterday. Or something. It was this sense of, Well, what's Jesus telling you now?
Well, what? Like, where does that come from? And some of that just came from a deep commitment to scripture study, particularly the gospels. And looking into Taking the words of Jesus seriously, the teachings of Jesus seriously, and positioning him as the master. Feature above all other texts within. The canon.
Yeah. Yeah.
John Marshall | 07:29
You study multicultural communication. Why that field of study?
Kyle Dickenson | 07:34
Well, communication studies is a wonderful major because it provides you with so much flexibility to take all kinds of, let's call it interdisciplinary studies. So when I arrived...
John Marshall | 07:48
A very redeeming way of saying you didn't learn anything.
Kyle Dickenson | 07:50
Yeah. Right. Or it's one of those degrees of like, good for you. You have a communication studies degree. Did you go to class? Yes, I did.
So there was so much flexibility within it, but what... What I did was chose that area of focus after having an intercultural communications teacher, Dr. Peter Wasu, who... Just Help me see the world very differently. He helped me see my own sense of culture and the things that I had learned and been trained into me from my family of origin. And those specifics... Which allowed me to ask better questions of people that were different from me and came from different places in the country and even in the world, about what some of their cultural expectations were and understandings were. And once I took that class, I just, I needed to know more and I wanted to study, how communications look differently on an international level, how that could affect business, all those types of aspects. And it was only like three more classes in order to gain that area of focus.
So I thought, man, this is great. What a good deal.
So I did that. The.
John Marshall | 09:08
Various roles that you've played that I read in your bio and Campus pastor, small groups pastor, development director, under consultant. All that to me screams community building. And I'm curious if those, if that career trajectory, if The seed? That got you in that direction.
You know, was planted, formed in this academic context, or if you can trace any of this community building love to even further back in your story, like what are the things that you name as like, well, this is why I'm where I am now.
Kyle Dickenson | 09:46
Yeah, I think the university community culture definitely sped it up, but it wouldn't have been the first place. I think the... Being on soccer teams, being on basketball teams, wanting to find a way to potentially coach those places as well.
So the team aspect of things was always something I was around and was interested in. I watched my dad be incredible at remembering people, at acknowledging people. He was just a very social person. We couldn't really go anywhere in town without him knowing.
Somebody, or I guess the expression is he's never met a stranger. So I had that influence growing up and I think I probably have a little bit of that in me still.
John Marshall | 10:38
So from college to today as executive director of Salem Leadership Foundation, will you give me the abbreviated version? What are the checkpoints between then and now? What are the career spots that... You have found yourself in and the period of life. Since college.
Kyle Dickenson | 10:59
Well, I, when I graduated, from Sacramento state, with my degree in intercultural communication studies. I went on staff with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship because I just wanted to be around that group. I wanted to continue to build community in that place with those students and to become that coach, that mentor, that person that helped organize groups. And move them towards service. And exploration and gaining a better sense of, "What is this kingdom of God that Jesus keeps talking about?" So I did that. For six years at Sacramento State. While I was doing all the while doing university staff, I had to fundraise my own budget. So that's where I learned a lot of the basics of fundraising, how to make an ask, how to write a newsletter, how to speak to a church or an alumni group or these kinds of places and talk about what the work was, what the vision for the future was, all those kinds of things.
So I did that for six years at Sacramento state. And then, My wife, Joy, and I moved when we were pregnant with our first child to the San Francisco Bay Area so I could work at San Francisco State with a university. That. Had been kind of an aspirational city for a while. We loved the idea of moving into San Francisco. While I was doing the work at Sacramento State during the summers, I would take students on the San Francisco urban experience. It was like a 10 day experience with students where we would live in the, In community, in a house, in kind of the South area of San Francisco, we would serve with organizations that were city-based and just learn about God's heart for justice.
So my heart for San Francisco had really grown. And so we had the ability to move to that area and work to San Francisco State.
So we did. And it was really exciting and incredibly challenging. This was in 2007. We all know what happened in 2008 to the global economy.
So things were challenging from a financial standpoint. Particularly when you're raising your own budget and living in a really expensive area, but working on the campus was fantastic. There was always something going on. There was, the ability to, or the opportunity really to engage with all kinds of different student groups that were passionate about their thing, whatever that thing was. Yeah.
So a great place for ideas and discussion and conversation. And working with students to how do you fully engage as somebody that identifies with Jesus, that can be a challenge in that place, but great opportunity.
So I love that. I left InterVarsity after nine years. That was painful. And... But necessary. Just really from a financial standpoint. And for Joy and I to seek our shared sense of calling together. How do we build community together? And it just wasn't happening the way that we wanted to while we were there.
So I left and went to be a small groups pastor. And, That was a, that was a difficult transition because I had been used to a very A very unique. Model of ministry with InterVarsity that wasn't necessarily the model that was in existence in the church that I worked at.
So I struggled to find my place there. And that still felt pretty good about the work. It just wasn't going to, be able to be sustainable.
And then we had our son while we were there. So financial pressure, trying to build community together, not really feeling like this was the work that I could sustain long-term. And so that led us away from that. And. The next job that I had was at Union Gospel Mission Salem as the Development director.
So that is the job that moves the Dickinson family to up to Salem, Oregon. We didn't know anybody. We had a family in the Vancouver, Washington area.
So that was close enough. That felt like, okay, we would know somebody and could connect well there. And we immediately fell in love with it. Salem. The community here, the emphasis on families with young children and it really being a school district dominated town, felt like we fit into what a lot of families were experiencing and what they were trying to value and things like that. Did that for a little while.
And then I, did fundraising consulting for a season. Helped a couple of local nonprofits with their capital projects. And toward the end of that, I started pursuing my MBA at George Fox, which led me to work at George Fox for a season. And doing fundraising. Again I did that through from night from 2019 through 2021.
So I'm hard time to do fundraising through the global pandemic, and having to rethink how you do the work. But that led me, That led me back to consulting for a season and then eventually... To Sam Leadership Foundation and returning back to the area.
John Marshall | 16:42
And all of that I heard various points of challenge. Yes.
So.
Kyle Dickenson | 16:49
Plenty of those.
John Marshall | 16:50
Recession and wait. Leaving. InterVarsity. Moving to a place where you really have no community, I'm curious. What? As you look back on that whole chapter of life, What were you learning about yourself or what are the lessons that you hold with yourself today that help you make sense of those challenges from the past?
Kyle Dickenson | 17:16
Yeah, that's a great question. And I think some of it is as simple as, but as difficult to do as simple. The community around you is going to sustain you. And if you don't have that, it's going to be really challenging and it may not be able to do your best work, offer your best self to the world. There were...
Some moments where... I could look back on our time in Sacramento and really say, We were surrounded. Bye, love and support. And people that knew us really well. And knew the right questions to ask and the right things to do to make us feel seen and loved. And that helped sustain longer. A longer trajectory of work. That wasn't necessarily true. While we were in San Francisco to the degree that we had hoped it would be. Nor was it When we moved out of Salem up to Tigard, to. To be closer to George Fox for those years. But it has been present in our experience in Salem throughout and really it was what made it easy for us to move back here in Salem?
John Marshall | 18:33
Here. Who are some of the names you would highlight as being integral to your community of support. - At any point in mean, who sticks out in your brain?
Kyle Dickenson | 18:42
Your story. - At any point in the story.
Yeah, I.
John Marshall | 18:45
It's like, "Nah." Those are people who sustained me in moments where I was pulled past my margins and I needed people around me.
Kyle Dickenson | 18:52
Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'd say... Boy, the risk of leaving people out, but I'll name them anyways. People like Alfred Rahman. And... Sean Young, Victoria Mejia. And just a whole other collection of people. In Sacramento that we would, we, you know, continue to reach back out to when we, Go back to Sacramento to visit. They are like family. For us. My wife is a part of a book club here. In Salem. She meets with, I think it's 10 other and other women. And.. The husband's of those women are some of my closest friends. Here and they are vital to our survival. They are vital to our sense of belonging. They're the people that we can count on for anything. And that's, they really... Comprise the core. And then, you know, I would, I'd be remiss if I didn't name Aaron and Melanie Kimsey, as our friends that lived a street over from us. When we were in Salem and are, they're very much like family. I'm here and they're like my kids' extra aunt and uncle, which is really interesting. A cool thing.
Yeah.
John Marshall | 20:22
That's excellent. I'm feeling myself grateful that you would name community as such a key lesson in your story because in our context at Church of the Park, the question we're trying to figure out all the time is, how do we create the conditions in which community The other thing I'm really curious about of what you just shared is that you went from vocational ministry into Fundraising.
Kyle Dickenson | 20:38
Thrives? That's great. Yep.
John Marshall | 20:52
Yes. And I don't know if you've read the Bible at all, but there's this verse that says, you know, the love of money, yada.
So it's this unique combination.
Kyle Dickenson | 21:03
Have I read the Bible at all? I have, John.
John Marshall | 21:08
I know this about you. I believe that.
So, Kidding aside, the curiosity in my brain is... What have you learned about? Yes. Money. And what is your perspective on economics from your position as vocational minister and now as, you know, executive director of a really integral... Community building entity in Salem, Oregon. How do you start to make meaning out of how money makes things work in the world?
Kyle Dickenson | 21:42
Sure. Well, I think. I had to... Learn. That fundraising. Could be experienced as ministry. Because Fundraising always includes an invitation. To stewardship. And... For so many years when I was a college pastor, All I ever did, it seemed, was ask. I would invite people to steward things. It was usually their time.
Sometimes it was their influence. Sometimes it was their attention. But it was always... An invitation. To do something that may have been just a little bit beyond what they were comfortable doing on their own. And so once I think I was able to apply that same thinking, and this is through a lot of help. From folks like J. Paul Freidenmaker, John Savage, Amy Karjula, and a number of other people who helped me see fundraising as ministry. That's what helped me get to a much better place in the work of fundraising, because then I started to see it as. I'm inviting... This is an invitation to steward something. That isn't theirs. It's something that people have received and they have an opportunity to make a choice with how they manage it and how they use it. And... It's possible and very likely a lot of the time to be able to lead people towards something that is. A choice that will make their community better, that they will feel a strong sense of Boy, satisfaction is probably too small of a word, but just that sense of connection to, something that's creating really good change.
So I think once I was able to get there. And then try to stay there as much as I can, it's changed the work. Of fundraising. It's changed my perspective on economics. It's because if you put it within the framework of it's all stewardship. It's all, what do we do with what we have been given and what we've received? I think you can have a healthier view on it. And then you overlay that with this sense of, If everything belongs to God and we live in an economy of abundance rather than scarcity, why do we worry? Which leads us back to the Don't worry.
So you have read the Bible. I have read the Bible and That whole thing about the love of money being the root of all evil is an interesting one that you bring up because I think that is that leads people to an unhealthy view of themselves as owners rather than stewards because they start to cling to money as opposed to seeing it as this is actually something that I have received that I have a chance and an opportunity to be able to use for something really good.
John Marshall | 24:53
Yeah. Your language of invitation into stewardship strikes me as a really, Excellent. Way of describing what SLF is And so this is where I want to lead into that.
Kyle Dickenson | 25:04
Up to okay?
John Marshall | 25:09
Your work that you're up to today, Yeah. And before-- we started recording, we were talking about how some of your experiences at SLF include just conversations with random community members who have expectations or assumptions about what SLF is or is supposed to do or is doing.
So first just, Answer, what is SLF? What is its mission?
And then where do you find yourself in that ecosystem?
Kyle Dickenson | 25:36
Yeah. Well, our vision is that we believe that Salem-Kaiser will become the healthiest community in all of Oregon, truly a city of shalom. Because we believe this, we engage with people of faith and people of goodwill to transform the community. Our work, and I would call our specific calling to this area, is to build connections in neighborhoods and capacity at nonprofits. And so we convene. Six and soon to be seven meetings on a monthly basis that engage with over 250 community leaders. And these meetings aim to create greater connection amongst the people that are participating in it, but find some more creative, sustainable solutions to the unique problems that present themselves on an annual basis.
So we function in that role of consultant, convener, oftentimes we're, you know, we're coaches or connectors and you know, all those have to be true, John, because they all started with the letter C.
John Marshall | 26:40
We love our alliteration. Yes.
Kyle Dickenson | 26:42
Yes, we do.
John Marshall | 26:43
In this line of work. So. As a executive director. Yes. Of this Mission focused organization. Yes. Where are the spaces that you find yourself participating in most often in the context of citywide problem solving? Who are you rubbing shoulders with?
Kyle Dickenson | 27:03
Sure. So... Of the six gatherings that I mentioned that we convened, the one... That I am at pretty much every single time is the churches as neighborhood centers luncheon or the can luncheon and that is specifically designed for churches and nonprofit leaders to answer the question, how do we best engage? Our community, how do we love and serve our neighbors and our neighborhoods?
So that gives me the opportunity to engage with a lot of leaders in both the space of the nonprofit and the church. There's a few other citywide initiatives that I get to be involved in and have been invited to participate in. Things around the community violence reduction initiative where I've had the opportunity to work closely with the Salem police department, but Some entities in town like Willamette Health Council, Salem Health, My friend, Levi Herrera-Lopez, the executive director for Mano a Mano, he and I get to co-chair the community work group that's working on the Community Violence Reduction Initiative. And that's given us a lot of, a lot of time together to think through how do we work towards better coordination, within our community-based organizations to be able to bring about some prevention initiatives and just raising overall community health.
So, we work closely with the school district. So, it's been fun to get to know our superintendent, Andrea Castaneda, a little bit and figure out what the needs of the school district are, particularly as it pertains to caring really well for our educators and our administrators. They're doing really good work with the students here.
So, definitely a need to be able to take really good care of the students, but probably increasing need to be able to take care of our educators and our administrators.
John Marshall | 28:59
And you're relatively newish to this position. I mean, what... When did you join SLF? How recently?
Kyle Dickenson | 29:09
I started part-time back in January, 2024 and did that for six months and then was full-time starting in July. So that's when, that's my paid staff journey. I joined the board at Salem Leadership Foundation in 2015 and was on it until 2019.
So not... Not new to the organization, pretty well versed in who we are and what our impacts have been in the community.
John Marshall | 29:37
Well, Those that you just named as collaborators in problem solving. I mean, it was a wide swath of movers and shakers in Salem and to enter into those conversations. Kind of as a relatively fresh face in the last year and a half. My own nervous system reacts to that. I'm like, " that's a lot of..." influence that has all of a sudden entered into your Orbit.
Yeah. What has excited you or inspired you or given you hope? In these last 16 months. That make you really hopeful for Salem's future.
Kyle Dickenson | 30:21
Well, I think it's an honor to be invited into those spaces and it is... It's right to recognize the influence that Salem Leadership Foundation has that's been built over 29 years of really active service and a lot of that work that has been carried out and led by Sam Skillern.
I mean, he showed up and he stuck with it for a number of years. And I would say delivered by bringing the faith community into those spaces to say, we want to be a part of this. The solution to what is happening in this community.
So, as I've been invited now into those places, I think some things that really give me... A lot of hope. Is... That the faith community is still viewed as an active partner, they can be part of a solution. For this community that if we can activate both the people and the places we can be part of raising overall community health. And I'm glad that that's still the case. And I'm hoping that we can steward our influence to continue to activate those communities and those spaces to be part of the solution for the community.
John Marshall | 31:42
Is there anything in your Wisdom. That is missing from those conversations. Anything that you wish that more people were talking about in Salem as it pertains to community thriving and community Uplift.
Kyle Dickenson | 32:02
Yeah, that's a good question. I think we have to keep... Creating a sense of belonging at the center of a lot of these conversations. I think that is the, that's the upstream conversation that, can have either really negative effects downstream or really positive effects downstream. And I think that, you know, from a, from my perspective as a Christ follower, I try to take the lens of people are image bearers of the divine. And that has to change the way that I both look at them, but the way that I Treat them, respond to them, listen to them. And I think that There's a lot of folks in town that don't come from that perspective, but have this strong sense of justice and strong sense of we need to create a space. A... A community of belonging. And so there's a lot of agreement on... What we want to be able to see, even though we may not be coming at it from the same vantage point. And I think that's actually a strength to have. To hold all those vantage points together.
So I think that's something that we just, we have to keep. We have to keep talking about, we have to keep pushing toward, and we have to keep creating space at the table. Particularly for groups that haven't necessarily been or historically been invited to sit in that space and talk about what their perspective has been, their experience has been. So that we can expand the... As Ben McBride likes to say, expand the circle of human concern. I believe that. And I think that some of that is catching on here in town. And I want to be a part of making sure that continues to be, a value that we hold. And pursue together.
John Marshall | 34:00
Yeah, that's a really beautiful conversation. And I'm encouraged to hear you say that you are witnessing it catch hold.
Yeah, I think so. It's a really hard conversation, especially when the topic of belonging starts to include other people who are a threat to me, well, I don't like that. And when I found myself participating in those spaces, the... The call to remember the image of God and my neighbor is It's really clunky. And I know that it gets really clunky to see the image of God in myself.
Kyle Dickenson | 34:41
Heh.
John Marshall | 34:43
Yeah. So in the place of seeking to call others around you into this place, of unshakable conviction that the other person is worth and attention and compassion and love. There's obviously part of the equation that includes earning that attention to yourself. Yes, sure.
So what are the things for you, Kyle, that keep you a healthy human? What are the things that allow you to gaze lovingly at your own self? What are the practices and the habits that allow you to see God in your own humanity?
Kyle Dickenson | 35:22
I don't think that they're as I think about that question and thank you for sending that to me in advance because it allowed me to think about it a little bit more. I think the baptism narrative of Jesus is where Jesus is named by his father as, Beloved son, in whom he's well-pleased. I don't think there is a text that has shaped me more than that in terms of how do I... How do I cling to my own sense of belovedness? And so I keep the icon. Of the baptism, close by in my... In my office and I'm often going back to it to just remind myself this is who I am before I do anything, before I succeed, before I fail, before I land somewhere in between those poles. And so that is often reinforced by my probably most key relationships, particularly with my wife and my trusted friends, I think they remind me of that in a good way, and they just help me to laugh and not take... Myself too seriously. I want to be able to take my work very seriously, but myself not too.
Seriously, and I think that's probably where a lot of my sense of humor comes out.
John Marshall | 36:54
I appreciate that a lot. Obviously, this podcast is intended to highlight humanity of homelessness.- and so I want to turn this conversation more in the direction of that context.
Yeah. Great. Because we're talking about your own humanity right now. The basic curiosity in my brain is where does your life and where does your work start to intersect with? Homelessness in Salem. We'll start there and then follow up questions about just where do you see your own... Life experience butting up against that reality in the world.
Kyle Dickenson | 37:32
Yeah, that's good. Well, I think I have to go back to... Probably the most formative experience I ever had with one of our unhoused neighbors. And it was when I was a college... Pastor back in Sacramento and we used to do this thing where we'd go and buy tacos from Del Taco and we'd go downtown and we'd look for folks that were. That had all the markers of people that lived outside. And we, would approach them with a, Hey, we've got some tacos. Are you guys hungry? Can we provide this for you? Kind of that provide for work for sense. And I'll never forget the interaction I had with a woman named Annie who We sat with her. It was me and another student. Offered her some dinner and there were three tacos in the bag. And she took them out and slid two of them across the table. And... I remember this strong resistance coming up in my, in my chest thinking, no, that's not right. No, you must be hungry. You need these, resistance. And I pushed them back across the table and she said, no, we're going to have this meal together. And that changed everything for me at that point, because it was a, no, we do this together. We're going to experience this meal together because I hadn't had dinner at that point too.
So I was hungry. So then there was something in that, interaction that I think changed things for me in terms of I have a need, you have a need, we have a shared need. We're meeting this shared need together in this time. And what a beautiful thing to be able to experience. So that, you know, that has changed the way, again, that I think I view our unhoused. Neighbors and how that continues to show up today is that, I love being involved in causes and organizations that are doing this work. In direct service, or they're trying to find out the best way to advocate for our in-house neighbors. And I know I have a role to play to be able to connect with, folks that are very interested in this work or supporting this work to be able to make introductions where they are needed. As we were talking about before, I have a tendency to not choose into speaking for organizations that are doing this work, but connecting people to, the places that are doing this work.
So it's a joy to be able to do that. For places like Church of the Park, Union Gospel Mission, Community Action Agency, and many others that are doing really good work with our neighbors that live outside.
John Marshall | 40:20
What are some of the current pressure points you see in the matrix of care and particularly prescriptions? One of the Storylines. That I find our Church of the Park community confronting right now is that for the last five years, the city of Salem has invested in invested more money in solution, so to speak. And yet. It doesn't seem like there's any fewer humans living outside. Right. And so, the questions that I encounter right now are, well, what are you doing? What are you up to? Why isn't this working? And I just wonder from your place at the table, like, I mean, you really, you get some behind the scenes perspectives on a lot of this problem solving.
And then Even I don't get to see so talk a little bit about just where you see the pressure points in Salem and what's being done to Be creative about it.
Kyle Dickenson | 41:17
Yeah, I think we would be well served to look at this, as I think Eugene Peterson puts it, is a long obedience in the right direction of a continued effort to, with complicated human beings. And... We're continually redefining what success looks like in this and how long it takes. And so while we absolutely need to be concerned with outcomes and efficiencies and results, I think that there is And the need to constantly be thinking about what are the right outputs and inputs into the system of care that we're providing that can actually provide those sustainable solutions because it is very complex. It's a very complicated issue because we're dealing with folks. Who have experienced, all kinds of broken shalom. To use a word we like to use a lot at St. Louis Leadership Foundation. And a lot of relational disconnection. And so I apologize. I applaud... The efforts of the groups that are dedicated to building relational connectivity. As a long-term solution. And I think that, you know, needs to remain, in the conversation. About what works. And how long that actually takes.
Yeah. It's tough.
John Marshall | 42:54
Yeah you I mean, you've mentioned your own bias to enter into these spaces one with this reminder of your own belovedness to with this reminder that others are beloved and image-bearers of God you've spoken about you know SLF as really this conduit of connection And in all of that, I just find beauty and grace and encouragement. For who you are and the way that you're showing up in these conversations. I'm curious though, if you could name Any particular message that you find yourself giving over and over to the other people at the table is who are trying to figure out How do we create a... A sustainable solution? How do we actually set the conditions for Salem in 50 years to be in a better place then than it is now.
Like, do you find that you have a refrain or a common message that to others.
Kyle Dickenson | 43:51
Yeah, I think it's about connection. And keeping that at the forefront and the more connected we are, the better off we are.
So how do we create that or help build that? In communities where there's an obvious lack of connection or there's been tremendous disconnection. It happens. And I think another. Another thing that I continue to come back to as a leader is shifting your perspective from, am I here for them? Are they here for me?
So am I entering into this space where we're going to have some constructive dialogue. We're going to have a discussion. Am I doing this? Or the people that are here, or do I have the perspective that they are here for me waiting on hanging on my words and those types of things? I think we're in a much better space as... As... As leaders, as contributors, trying to find solutions when we take the perspective of, we are here to serve rather than to be listened to or. Be awe-inspiring. Sages.
John Marshall | 45:03
Well now... I'm sorry, but I'm going to ask you to be an awe-inspiring sage.
Kyle Dickenson | 45:09
I just did with that.
John Marshall | 45:11
You're very right. I'm going to make you do it some more...
So let's say a gentleman on the sidewalk. Stops you and asks you for money. Or someone, you know, a single mom with two kids living in their car, comes and knocks on the door of SLF. And you're the one to greet them. In that moment, What is the thing that you are most compelled to say to a human being. Who is in that place of darkness and pain. What is your refrain to them?
So not the leaders, but the ones who are Looking for help. Yeah.
Kyle Dickenson | 45:51
And I learned this from my dad. The first thing is, What's your name? What has happened? What's your story?
And then I think that gets to what I can do and what I can't do. Because there is an invitation for me in that space to be able to recognize my own limitations. And there is, There is.. The ability for me to offer something personally or offer some kind of connection to, a service that I know about that could meet need that is being asked for in that moment. But I think it has to start. With looking the person in the eye and asking them, What's their name? Who to stop long enough to be able to do that.
John Marshall | 46:42
Are they? It's really beautiful. And I'm really grateful for that.
So thank you. In the time that we have remaining, I want to throw... A set of questions at you. We finish every podcast with these 10 questions to the guest. They're random, they're funny, they're meaningful, but I'm ready. Rapid fire just to catch a little bit more of your humanity.
So you ready? Yep. Care. Kyle Dickinson, what is the best dessert?
Kyle Dickenson | 47:17
Cheesecake.
John Marshall | 47:19
Any flavor?
Kyle Dickenson | 47:25
It depends on the day.
John Marshall | 47:26
Yeah. Tuesday. Ha Blueberry.
Kyle Dickenson | 47:28
Ha.
John Marshall | 47:30
Okay. Good to know. Question two, a genie grants you one wish. What do you wish for?
Kyle Dickenson | 47:38
I'm gonna say... That the Portland Trailblazers would figure it out. And like, Just win a championship already.
John Marshall | 47:45
Question three, would you rather go back in time and meet your ancestors or travel to the future to meet your descendants?
Kyle Dickenson | 47:52
Back in time. Because my time orientation is the person that, moves from the past into the present. And so I have much more of a fascination with where do I come from and who are my people?
John Marshall | 48:08
Question four, cats or dogs?
Kyle Dickenson | 48:11
Dogs? Are cats even animals? I'm not sure.
John Marshall | 48:14
I think you just lit a match.
Kyle Dickenson | 48:16
I hope so. Bring it, cat people. Go dogs.
John Marshall | 48:21
Apples or oranges?
Kyle Dickenson | 48:24
Oranges.
John Marshall | 48:25
Favorite smell?
Kyle Dickenson | 48:27
Bacon.
John Marshall | 48:28
What is one thing that you would add to Salem to make it better?
Kyle Dickenson | 48:32
Professional baseball team.
John Marshall | 48:34
What piece of advice has helped you the most?
Kyle Dickenson | 48:38
Yeah, I think it's take your work seriously and don't take yourself too seriously.
John Marshall | 48:44
What is your favorite thing about yourself? Sense of humor. And finally, what is your biggest hope for your future?
Kyle Dickenson | 48:55
Yeah, I think that it is. I would be known as somebody that loved well.
John Marshall | 49:04
Well, Kyle, thank you for your time today. Thanks for sitting with us and sharing some of your own story and offering a perspective on. Ways in which... All of us in Salem. And continue to build connection and understanding and empathy and belonging with one another. You are a human who so clearly has developed attentiveness to others and the reality of others. And I'm really grateful that you are someone who invites others to look past their own selves, to see those around them.
So thank you.
Kyle Dickenson | 49:35
Yeah, my pleasure.
John Marshall | 49:36
And thank you, listeners, for joining us for this episode of The Humanity of Homelessness. Thanks again to Kyle for his vulnerability and his courage to share his story. We hope that his life serves as testimony to the rest of us that there is always good news to celebrate in hard places and that all of our neighbors are worth our time and attention. If you'd like to remain connected with us at Church of the Park, please visit our website at churchatthepark.org. There you can find opportunities to volunteer, subscribe to our newsletter and weekly liturgy reflections, and stay in the know about our current and future projects. We have an online portal for financial giving. If you have any questions for us or want to connect over a cup of coffee, we have lots of team members who would like to pay for your cup.
So email us at info@churchatthepark.org Again, that's info, I-N-F-O, at churchatthepark.org. Thanks, y'all. Until next time.