Beyond The Job Title | Underrepresented Career Stories

Episode Summary

Conversation with Emma Lo about her career journey.

  • (00:00) - Intro | pivot and learn from your failures
  • (02:40) - Emma’s childhood memories growing up in Taiwan
  • (07:03) - Moving to Canada and becoming a cancer researcher
  • (17:26) - Pivoting from cancer researches into business
  • (21:27) - Emma’s love for photography
  • (26:26) - It’s not enough to run experiments, you gotta tell the story
  • (33:26) - Shifting identities; your titles and achievements don’t represent you
  • (38:08) - Customer success is a trusted advisor
  • (42:43) - Continuous learning and investing in yourself
  • (48:23) - The power of what if
  • (51:55) - Pivot and learn from your failures
  • (53:26) - Outro

Emma’s Bio

Emma Lo is a dedicated professional with a strong commitment to prioritizing people and human well-being, transitioning from a background in cancer research to her current role as a successful businesswoman.

With 13 years of experience as a results-driven revenue leader, Emma has consistently led customer success, marketing, and operations teams to achieve remarkable outcomes in high-growth industries. Her track record includes driving revenue growth, enhancing customer retention, and improving service offerings.

Emma's leadership has been pivotal in building support, marketing, and customer success teams that embrace a customer-centric culture, contributing to revenue surpassing $35 million in a Series B-funded venture. She excels in developing and implementing customer-centric strategies, elevating revenue growth, and optimizing customer experiences.

In addition to her impressive business career, Emma possesses over a decade of experience in healthcare research, collaborating effectively with patients, industry professionals, and clinical physicians in the fields of drug development and personalized medicine.

Referenced
Connect With Emma

🎙About The Podcast

Join Cesar Romero, as he shares the stories of trailblazing underrepresented SaaS founders, executives, and professionals who have broken barriers and achieved remarkable milestones. Whether you're seeking inspiration, mentorship, or actionable strategies to advance your career, our podcast is your go-to resource.

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Where to find Cesar

Creators & Guests

Host
Cesar Romero
Helping startups and SMBs build strong customer relationships that drive product adoption, reduce churn, and increase revenue | Community-Driven | Podcast Host
Guest
Emma Lo
Spark with curiosity, fuel with data. Help business accelerate in customer-led growth | Founder, Entrepreneur, Revenue Operations & Customer Success leader

What is Beyond The Job Title | Underrepresented Career Stories?

The lack of diversity in tech can lead to imposter syndrome, bias, and a sense of isolation that hinders your growth and ambition.

Welcome to 'Beyond The Job Title Podcast,' where we shine a spotlight on the journeys of underrepresented tech professionals and allies within the SaaS industry.

Join us as we delve into the personal development and career insights that have fueled their success.

Discover the stories of trailblazing underrepresented SaaS founders, executives, and professionals who have broken barriers and achieved remarkable milestones.

Whether you're seeking inspiration, mentorship, or actionable strategies to advance your career, our podcast is your go-to resource.

Tune in to gain valuable insights, build your network, and navigate your tech career journey with confidence.

Subscribe now and take the next step toward your own success in the world of tech.

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Emma Lo | BJT18 - Main
[00:00:00] emma: Going back to a pivot. So be willing to pivot, be willing to learn from your failures. Failure is not a failure, it's just a lesson that life throws you to learn.
[00:00:09] emma: And if you don't learn it, it's just hitting you until you learn it. So I started seeing it. That as well. Yeah. Just be willing to pivot, be humble and just like, keep learning.
[00:00:22] Cesar: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of beyond the job title podcast. I'm your host since I've Romero. And. In this podcast, we share the stories of underrepresented. Tech professionals, founders, executives. Who have broken barriers and achieve from markable milestones. And the goal here is whether you're seeking the inspiration, mentorship, or strategies to advance your career. This is the go-to resource, especially if you are someone from an [00:01:00] underrepresented background. And this week I find myself at Saster the 2023 Saster conference in San Francisco. And, um, it's been a bit of a challenge. Uh, trying to take everything in and, uh, To do this podcast. But we've got it done. And I'm trying to get this out to you guys. And my guest for this episode is Emma lo. And in this episode, we talked about Ms. Background. And pivoting from being a cancer researcher. Into. Business. And having, uh, and running a successful business. And we talk about her. Her time growing up in Taiwan. Moving to Canada. And becoming cancer research, making the pivot into business. Uh, her, her love for photography. Um, why it's not enough to run experiments, the power of pivoting and learning from failures. And so much more. So I'm excited too. Share this episode with you [00:02:00] guys, and please. Don't forget to subscribe. So you don't miss any future episodes and. If you have any feedback or any comments, um, please reach out to me via DMS. Uh, I do this for you guys because I'm really passionate about diversity in tech. And it's important to. Share the stories of other successful. On the represented professionals that have achieved. Amazing milestones. Alright, so. Uh, thank you so. much for tuning in and here's my conversation with Emmylou.
[00:02:38] Cesar: Emma, thanks so much for coming on the show. Uh, it's been, uh, Yeah, it's been a journey to, to get here, right before we, we started recording, you know, I was sharing with you that I got sick and then we had to reschedule, but, you know, thanks for being flexible with that.
[00:02:40] Cesar: Um, and I wanted to start off with your time growing up in Taiwan. And I wanted to ask you, you know, what's your favorite memory that you have growing up in Taiwan, you know, like, uh, childhood memory or, yeah, you know, let's, let's start there. Sure.
[00:02:57] emma: My childhood memory in [00:03:00] Taiwan was actually playing fireworks with
[00:03:04] emma: my cousin during Chinese New Year. Yeah, my grandparents have a big rice farm. And you can imagine that out in the country rice farm, or you can see in the traditional little yard or the And what one level kind of those old houses. Yeah. Well, our cousin will gather together in boys going to be boys. We have guard dogs and they will just put those firecrackers in a can and try to scare the dogs or doing some, some stupid things.
[00:03:33] Cesar: That's that's amazing. Um, yeah, you know, it's, it's. I always find the childhood memories that we keep, you know, we carry those throughout our lives, right, those, those moments that bring us joy, um, is there anything that you learn throughout your time in, in Taiwan, you know, perhaps values that were instilling you or things that, that you move into Taiwan.
[00:03:52] Cesar: Thank you.
[00:03:52] Cesar: Thank you. Thank you. Into the next stage.
[00:03:57] emma: I feel like I've been taking [00:04:00] my, um, a convenience for granted. So, in Taiwan, you can have a metro car and pay for transportation. Even bubble tea or convenience store order order things or pay your parking tickets. All these things with just one card. And I never thought.
[00:04:17] emma: Yeah, I never thought I needed to bring my credit card or or anything. It's just the convenience of living in Taiwan. Every corner. There's a 7 11 convenience store in there. You can. Basically stay there all day, not being bored. Do all your, um, yeah, pay your bills, books, sitting area, lunch, dinner, whatever.
[00:04:36] emma: And, but when move out to Canada, it's just like, Oh, wow. I didn't realize that, um, internet was so important. The price of the cell phone, the cell plans and anything that around technology and convenience is so much different life experience. You live in two different countries. Yeah.
[00:04:57] Cesar: Convenience, man. It's, it's a, it's a double edged [00:05:00] sword, right?
[00:05:00] Cesar: Because we as humans, we want convenience, but it can make, makes us more vulnerable. Right. Um, now I'm, I'm curious. So if you were to lose that car, like, so what would happen in Taiwan? Like you, could you pay for things or do you have to get another one? What was that? Process.
[00:05:17] emma: It's, um, it's actually you can tie to your credit card, tie to your phone, like now is getting that, um, that pay system.
[00:05:23] emma: Also, another thing I realized in Taiwan. Um, so you must have heard of WeChat, right? And in that WeChat kind of messenger environment, you have stores, you can pay, you can communicate. The same thing in Taiwan, we have LINE, which is actually originally from Japanese, like Japan. Line is a messenger. There is like line character.
[00:05:46] emma: They have their own, um, like products and main communication, but now you can actually have a line pay. So, those digital pay system now tied to your messenger and now ties to [00:06:00] doing more and more. So, the convenient factor is coming back. Like, you're not only living on your car, but now you're living off your phone.
[00:06:07] emma: Right. That's wild. Yeah. It's, um, the digital experience really is really different. And that's something I bring back from Taiwan and that I look into other products or service here in Canada or in North
[00:06:20] Cesar: America. I'm curious, you know, why, why hasn't done being adopted on this side of the world, right?
[00:06:26] Cesar: Because it seems like that's something that would be very convenient, right? To for a lot of people and for the government to, I guess.
[00:06:35] emma: It's about security and infrastructure. What we have now. Do you remember when the iPhones have the NFT payments and having Apple pay or Google pay was such a big deal?
[00:06:49] emma: It was. Yeah. Um, I think there's more, of course, there's more security and the adoption of the technology is still there. Maybe it could take a couple of [00:07:00] years, I would say, to adopt that. What,
[00:07:03] Cesar: what prompted the move to Canada, you know, at what point did you move from Taiwan to, to, to Canada? Right. And what was that journey like?
[00:07:13] emma: Um, that it all start with, um, I came to Canada for my graduate study and my previous life is as a cancer researcher. So I basically come from undergrad graduate study all around the cancer research, drug development. That's what's my main study. Got a scholarship at Queens, so that's the reason I moved here.
[00:07:36] emma: You can,
[00:07:37] Cesar: yeah. So, through the scholarship, you moved to Canada. Yes, yeah. And cancer research, right, what, what, what prompted that? Right, like, uh, did you always know that you wanted to pursue that as a academic path and career path? Or was there a pivotal moment where you realized, you know what, I think I want to give cancer research.
[00:07:56] Cesar: I'll try.
[00:07:57] emma: My first wow moment [00:08:00] was seeing a glowing purple mice in, in the lab at Princeton University. So that was one when I was really young. We, we actually were, um, living in Princeton, New Jersey and then moved back to Taiwan. But, um, uh, why cancer? That's 'cause I have family members who are died of cancer and like I have a really close relationship with my aunt.
[00:08:25] emma: It was that, that feeling of that you can't control you see somebody really close to you going through all the treatment medicine, when the breast cancer my test is a bone cancer, and she was. Gone within a year. So you feel that helplessness and you just want to do something. So life sciences, life science, want to be a life scientist, want to do something in cancer and thought I will cure cancer today and have my and being some somebody in like helping in a very, um, create the best cancer [00:09:00] drug of the world.
[00:09:00] emma: That was my childhood dream. That's, that's kind of where I came in. I have been very fortunate to work with a lot of, um, great supervisors, um, professors throughout. And one of them is actually, um, I'm going to say in Chinese, Chen Jianren. Yeah, he, he was actually in public health. So instead of Me working in the little lab, like on my bench, he actually opened the eye to how the contribution of science and how things are working in society or environment of public health, but that.
[00:09:39] emma: And so he actually opened my eye to a kind of broader like the cross department collaboration. What my, my contribution to society or how this works. And. Yes, yes, um, smoking can cause lung cancer, or yes, polluted water will cause this, all these things that you have to have different fields collaborate together [00:10:00] to actually not just a single, um, is yourself like a trip in the big ocean, we can see a ripple effect different fields.
[00:10:08] Cesar: Yeah, I, so 2000.
[00:10:10] Cesar: 18 due to several complications, but ultimately she had developed kidney disease and I relate to that helplessness of seeing your loved ones, right? Like they're deteriorating, right? Because of whatever chronic disease they, they might have and you feel helpless, powerless. And yeah, just like, man, I wish I could do more.
[00:10:38] Cesar: Right. Uh, so it's inspiring that you took that as a driver to, um, pursue this as a, as a path, right. And, um, I'm curious, right. Did you, did you find what, what the meaning that you were looking for? Did you find the, you know, that feeling of fulfillment as you were going through the program, you know, cancer research and, you know, what were some of the, I guess, [00:11:00] biggest.
[00:11:01] Cesar: Biggest lessons that, that you learned throughout, throughout that part of your career?
[00:11:05] emma: The biggest lesson, um, um, every, a lot of studies are done during the preclinical trials, like the preclinical stage. And then it's like a funnel. Then you, the very few can enter phase one and then even more few, fewer that can actually could end the last stage of clinical trial to production.
[00:11:24] emma: And even after that. So, talking about that scholarship that brought me to Canada, I was working on a specific drug from AstraZeneca. It was a drug, um, supposed to work on mental cell lymphoma. So, mental cell lymphoma is a very rare, um, B cell lymphoma cancer, really, is a very rare, um, More, um, it's more, most of the patients are like 74 years old and five older male.
[00:11:53] emma: And the reason of that is that in this, in the cell cycle, think of the break there, one of the break that's broken, one part of [00:12:00] gene and that drug is supposed to stop that gene, like stop that. Um, so I thought, yes, I have a drug that actually works. And there's a simple model. I would do it. But this is always a turn in phase one that drugman discontinue because it was too toxic.
[00:12:15] emma: It was too. Yeah. So like, oh my God, I've been working on this for so many years. And now there's people, there's always a race who's can publish faster. And now what I'm going to do is like, what's, what's going to happen next? The drugman does continue. It's too toxic and human. So pivot. I would say the biggest lesson I learned is pivot, take what you have learned and see what other application that you have out there.
[00:12:41] emma: So it's hard muscle. So cycle, I start working on. So let's go cycle inhibitors and see if there's any personalized medicine feel to work on this, but this particular cell cycle. Lymphoma say that way. Yeah. So [00:13:00] don't get discouraged pivot. When at a times, and you're stuck and look for other than use ventures.
[00:13:08] Cesar: It's such a great lesson that it can be helpful for life, right? Because we, we all pivot, right? We all have transitions and we gather data. We look at the data and we say, okay, you know, is this helpful or, well, I guess any, any data is, is helpful, right? But is this in the right direction, right? And if it's not, then.
[00:13:27] Cesar: You got to pivot, right? So pick
[00:13:29] emma: yourself off the ground, dust it off, just keep going.
[00:13:32] Cesar: Yeah, I love that. So that requires a lot of patience, a lot of experimentation. Um, did you at any point, did you feel like, oh man, this is not the career path that, uh, I thought it was going to be? Oh, yes. What, what kept you going?
[00:13:49] Cesar: It's,
[00:13:50] emma: um, during, I felt like I love human to human interaction. I love talking to people. I love helping people directly, [00:14:00] instead of hiding myself in the lab, like petri dishes or just mice. Right. It's more interesting when you step to the front of the customer or the clients or etc. Right. I, yeah, it's just that feeling of you want to have a direct help and seeing that smile or satisfaction on their face.
[00:14:22] emma: That kind of keep me going. I love that.
[00:14:25] Cesar: Where does that come from? Like, have you always been that that way or was there a particular moment where you realize, you know what, people are important and I love talking to people. I love seeing the impact. I'm always curious about that.
[00:14:39] emma: Um, in my little pull back my time in Taiwan.
[00:14:43] emma: I was working on another drug, another study, like a study with Roche, and at that time for master, it was like 200 people. Um, it was not cancer, it was, um, sorry, with my, with my arthritis, 200 people study, I [00:15:00] had to collect their 24 hour urine samples, blood, monthly visits. And see, um, and see if there's any biomarkers that I can track that can correlate to this disease progression.
[00:15:15] emma: So I had to do from the front depression here all the way to like x ray MRI, everything. But my favorite part was actually talking to the clients that the customers, the patient, we built such a strong relationship with that two years that I felt I finally stepping up to be more than just a scientist in the lab.
[00:15:40] emma: And how can you convince them to collect those, the samples for you, right? And just like, listen to them, their pain point. And I think that was the spark of music. Um, yeah, I can see the smiles on my patient's face. I love doing these clinical works. Yeah, instead of, um, don't know if, if these, um, basic, uh, well, [00:16:00] research studies will help the clients directly, but.
[00:16:04] emma: This is where I see the sparks. Like I really like to see that smile. I really want to see, build a relationship with my people.
[00:16:11] Cesar: I love the level of self awareness, you know, as, as you were going through it, you were paying attention to the things that you resonated with, the things that you lean into. And that's so, it's super helpful to try to practice that, especially in this day and age, right?
[00:16:27] Cesar: Like getting to know yourself, getting to know what problems you want to solve. Getting to know what you lean into, right? Are you a people person or are you more of a operations in the back kind of kind of person, right? Because that that's going to help you determine, right? What, what kind of jobs, what kind of, um, even courses or, or, um, you know, education you, you pursue, right?
[00:16:52] Cesar: So I love that. You've been self aware, what, what it seems, you know, from very early on.
[00:16:58] emma: Yes. And[00:17:00] it's, it's being more helpful. Well, if you can put yourself in the customer shoes, I think that's whatever stage or whatever department you're in door. Always think of back of why we're here. But we're here.
[00:17:15] emma: What's this product is about? Yeah. Why the customer choose us, why they're staying with us, why they left all these like deep down. And kind of understanding their needs is very important.
[00:17:26] Cesar: Yeah. So you spend about 18 years, you know, with that program, your cancer research, right. And then you made the pivot into business, right.
[00:17:38] Cesar: Max sold, which is company that you recently exited, right. You were there for about 11, 12 years. Um, yeah, you know, what, what, how, how was that? How was that transition? Like, you know, cause you. Couple questions here. How was that transition, right? And how, what you learned through cancer research, you know, what were some of the things that [00:18:00] you brought into starting this, this new venture, right?
[00:18:04] Cesar: Let's, let's, let's start there, right? Like, what prompted this change for you? And what were some of the things that you brought from your cancer research into, into business?
[00:18:12] Cesar: Um,
[00:18:12] emma: let's talk about the turning point, what, what made me, um, at that time I was, I grew up, I was a graduate student doing a part time photography job at Maxwell. That's how it all started. And by being a photographer, you're entering the client's home, you're, you're there to digitalize all their access. So you're going through their, um, their things in the house.
[00:18:36] emma: You're getting to meet your clients face to face. And then you listen to the customer stories directly from firsthand. They talked about, oh, how this beautiful bone china was inherited by his grandmother, or this dining room table was actually a gift from, from a wedding, like passed down. Like see, hearing all these wonderful customer stories and see what...
[00:18:58] emma: They really believe in the [00:19:00] value, right? You must have been to antique roadshow, which is, oh yes, this is gonna, this is a family heirloom that's gonna do X. Or recently in Sotheby's, there's like 25 million sold bowl, like China. We think everybody had that treasure, but the idea of the value, it's so intriguing to me that, because, to be honest, the, the, the but, Is that when the grandma talk about her China and how much she preserved it, like she wants her children to take it.
[00:19:36] emma: She wants her grandchildren to take it. Most of the family members don't want it. And if you step back, most of our 80 percent in the household items, you're not going to get the anti racial jackpot. Most of the things just to be honest, is modest, but the value perception of every single customer or the desire of passing down that.
[00:19:59] emma: Is I feel like [00:20:00] it's lost like grandchildren doesn't want it. So what happens? She, um, that was my desire to help her. The original grandma, the customer to have somebody who can cherish her China to cherish her dining room table. Not necessarily by her grandchildren, but by another person. So that's when I thought that Maxwell can help.
[00:20:23] emma: Is, um, the product is designed to help the customer move on to her, her life or their lives and get rid of the, get of the stuff that's stopping them the way and to connect them with the person or the buyer who will cherish for life. So to quickly get that other way, but also find the next buyer for who can treasure this China for life or have another use of it.
[00:20:48] emma: And that's kind of like, I want to help this. I want to make this better. I want to call to the customer needs. I want to do this. That's how I got my started up in this little, um, startup [00:21:00] precede at the time. Yeah. And we were, we were just a little Kingston online auction company. And later on, we expand to North America and with 800 employees and helping people in 35 metros and et cetera, et cetera, like all these having, how can I solve this?
[00:21:19] emma: How can I make it simpler? How can I make it better? And such a, and that's, that's really how I. Really ended in Maxwell and kind of 11 years later,
[00:21:27] Cesar: love it, but let's, let's back up. So you were doing photography. How, how did you get started with that? Like, were you always into, into photography or at some point do you pick it up and then you started as a real site business?
[00:21:42] Cesar: Oh, it's,
[00:21:43] emma: um, it's funny that the stereotype of all Asian have a photographer. Like, if you go with me to a, to a restaurant, my, my camera eats first, just
[00:21:50] Cesar: so. Okay, noted.
[00:21:51] emma: I just love the, I've always been in the photography club. I love the black and white and the [00:22:00] process of developing your own film and pictures and seeing the world in another lens, the beauty.
[00:22:08] emma: The noticing the details, right? And just changing lens and perspective. That's I found the beauty of photography just right there. And also documentary, like remember my beautiful.
[00:22:20] Cesar: Yeah. Any, any picture that you've taken that, that stands out to you? Stands out to me. Yeah. One that they
[00:22:27] emma: remember the most. It was my probably first year in Um, is the symmetry of, you know, if you see those gates like you those round.
[00:22:39] emma: Yeah, yeah, round gates, but you take a picture of this side but what if you take picture from the other side, or looking up in the stairway, if these are symmetry, those some simplicity of structures. And I noticed myself. Love taking pictures of reflection. So there's this one photograph I took of a [00:23:00] cat staring outside with the reflection on the, the window, and that got me first place.
[00:23:05] emma: I can still have a contest. Yeah.
[00:23:10] Cesar: That's awesome. It's important to always have something that, you know, like a hobby or interest, right? And let that come out, right? Cause we all have this creative expression that that needs to come out. Like this podcast is a creative expression, right? Photography is a creative expression because a lot of people, um, reprimand that, you know, don't, don't let it out.
[00:23:31] Cesar: And I think that's not a way to live, right? Cause we all have this, this creative. need to just express how we view the world, you know, the perspective, right? Starting a business. That's another way to to express our creativity, right? So, um, that's awesome. Uh, I don't, I don't see that anywhere. So I, I would say, huh, I'm curious how she picked that photography.
[00:23:51] Cesar: Um, all right. So you, you fell in love with what MapSol was about, you know, with solving the problem for that particular customer. Um, then what happens [00:24:00] next? Like, how do you come on board? Uh, were you more of a journalist or did you ended up, you know, picking up customer success along the way? Yeah, let's, let's, let's unpack that, right?
[00:24:10] Cesar: What were some moments, perhaps a challenging moment that were like, man, I want to quit, you know, what am I
[00:24:17] emma: doing? Uh, we talked about creativity, we talked about problem solving. Yeah. And one of my supervisor, a mentor said, Emma, you just have to throw her in a blank space for her problem, and she can solve it.
[00:24:30] emma: So, that's, that's kind of how I came along with Maxell. At that time, we were only like three desks in a corner of a warehouse. And, uh, yeah. So, what was, I found that when Everybody's like working on sales or marketing operation, what's been dragging them, dragging their foot was actually the reactive support, right?
[00:24:52] emma: If you think of, yeah, cause once you brought them in that first level of service is [00:25:00] actually support because when they have a problem with the, like the app, how to log in, or they need a place to share their opinion or have some feedback or et cetera, or things, right. And that was, that was a missing link.
[00:25:12] emma: We had. Instead of we have, um, so that was my 1st, my challenge is to build a support department. That was it. And looking through call centers through India, Sri Lanka, or, um, you know, we ended in, um, there's other places like Belize, etc. So have all these call center experience. But, and then setting a process, my scientists.
[00:25:35] emma: Where's the SLP? Okay. Where is this? How can I make things faster or automated? We don't need to do this. Customer needed us. They need FAQs page. They need this. So going through what the tools can provide us, like we use Zendesk for our support team, the ticketing system, how to set the triggers. How do we know that we're actually serving customers?
[00:25:56] emma: So then the NPS surveys, the, the, the, those came out. [00:26:00] Now they're on. So, okay, Emma, let's build a marketing department. Uh, okay. So with that customer in mind, how can you talk to them in a way that, um, Persevered talking to your needs, their deep value, right? I feel like that's where marketing comes in. Right.
[00:26:16] emma: And so I was working with marketing, build a marketing team off shorted and also SLP, but also try to make it, I always think of how can I make the message simpler to digest. So one of the things I learned from my science stage, my scientist background is my supervisor would say, Emma, you're great at doing experiments, because you can produce a lot of data.
[00:26:43] emma: But now, explain this to me. Simple word. No. Where's the story behind this? Don't show me a chart. Show me a story. Why you do this, what you're trying to achieve, all these, that really challenged me to think like what does the customer want [00:27:00] or does? Is data aligned with the insight we're trying to get? Or I'm, am I doing the right way, right?
[00:27:05] emma: Mm-hmm. , I'm not there just to produce data. I'm there to think of how to push forward or send out the measures that somebody can consume or have a positive effect or, or cent something. There has to be an outcome or a a, a action after this.
[00:27:19] Cesar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so, that's so important, you know, and a lot of people get lost in that too.
[00:27:24] Cesar: I've, I've been there myself, you know, where I'm doing experiments collecting data, but there's no real story, right? Like there's no, there's gaps of, of data.
[00:27:32] emma: Like why you're doing this, right? What's the outcome? What's the insight? What's the take home message? Has to be something because it's so easy to get lost in dashboards.
[00:27:41] emma: Oh, yeah. And collect data. Everybody loves surveys. But what's coming out of this survey?
[00:27:47] Cesar: Yeah. Yeah. What, what, what are they telling us? Right. Um, I'm, I'm picking up that you're someone that if you see a gap, if you see a problem, like you step in and build zero to one, right? Like processes, where's the SOP?
[00:27:59] Cesar: Um, how do we build this [00:28:00] out? With the tools that we have, how do we automate? Um, and yeah, you know, that's a, that's a great way to approach gaps and problems. And I think it's a great mindset, you know, if whether you have a job right now, or you're in your job search, or even if you're an entrepreneur building a business, right?
[00:28:16] Cesar: Just having that mindset of where are the gaps? What are the problems? Uh, can I solve it? You know, and if I can't, can I bring a team or can I automate some things? Um, And, and, you know, make it more scalable and efficient, right? I think that's, that's super helpful. Um, not, not just for business, but also for, for
[00:28:32] emma: your career.
[00:28:34] emma: Yeah. Um, talking about how customer success coming to end, do a little history. In MaxSold, always, um, everything was based on project. It was like, okay, I signed this client. Now we have an option and we need to host in, in the month. And how do you step forward when to schedule a team, when to do this, when you do that.
[00:28:51] emma: It's like everything like a clockwork is very project based, but like you said, the gaps, right, it's really, really easy to get lost in the [00:29:00] details. Let's think about efficiency and et cetera. So about six years ago, five years ago,
[00:29:08] emma: I found the biggest, um, thing at that time, the tagline was sell everything simply. It's very easy to can see is very project based efficiency and all that. Right. But it's not talking to the customer with the pain point that I just, the turning point is that the needs of the customer, what is missing there, something missing.
[00:29:30] emma: So about six years ago, we changed our core value and is really about how to connect, extend the life hood of. Your treasures like that's this real story of the downsizing. How can I pass on this treasure to the next generation? How can I eliminate waste? How can you be more sustainable future, etc. Right.
[00:29:49] emma: So, from the, if you think of the brand strategy from the head, actually down to your heart and your gut and that's where a real brand or product should be [00:30:00] seeking directly to the core. Or the heart of customer needs. So, at that time, we put, instead of project based, linear, put the customer in the center.
[00:30:10] emma: And that's when customer success happens. It's like, okay, now I've come from support, marketing, IT. Now we have a customer in the center. Can we build something around the customer? And I see that excitement of everybody coming in to help in solving for the customer. Not just only thinking about, oh, have auction coming in, project coming in, and hit the deadline.
[00:30:31] emma: So I see the evolution of customer success and also see this in the industry
[00:30:36] Cesar: as well. Yeah, it's crazy to me that, you know, customer success and just the customer led, um, companies, they're having a time right now. But to me, you know, cause I, I grew up, my parents have a small business and I grew up watching my mom just put the customer at the center.
[00:30:55] Cesar: And it was one of the favorite stores, uh, on that block. And [00:31:00] because she always put, put the customer first, like she always go above and beyond. And that's been instilled in me since, since early on. So, you know, to hear that in B2B is like, Oh, you know, customer led, it's like getting a moment today. I'm like, shouldn't it always have been the customer first anyways.
[00:31:15] Cesar: Which is very well to be, um, but you know, hey, it's, it's, I'm glad that it's, it's happening, right? Um, because ultimately, right, any piece of technology, any tool at the end of the day, it needs to solve a problem for the customer, right? And if it's not doing that, then you can have the best tool out there, but you know, it's not helpful, right?
[00:31:34] Cesar: Um, so, all right, so you, you building out max sold. For 10 plus years, right? Uh, what was the decision to transition out of it? Like, you know what? What made you decide? You know what? I think I've run scores. I'm I'm ready to move on to whatever the next thing is
[00:31:55] emma: last year. We had a. Yeah, opportunity. [00:32:00] So me, my husband is the CEO of Maxwell, where I'm the secret under table, um, janitor, I will call myself my titles because it's very, yeah. So last year today we left the company together, really, it was a chance of. It was, it was opportunity for accident at a time we I see the company been supported by.
[00:32:26] emma: It's a time to take it to the next level. And we were fortunate to hire a new CEO last year from eBay. So he was the one who set up the shipping and this is Ross. And he, he was amazing. So I thought it was, you want to keep going but you know it's a moment for you to step down, then let the stage for other people to thrive.
[00:32:50] emma: That's, that's how I felt. And also, at that time, I think I would like to venture something else and see [00:33:00] what's out there. It's, it's, I've been putting on the gas pedal for 11 years. It was a moment to take my feet off. It was a little, and kind of reconnect what we want. And that's where I am today.
[00:33:15] Cesar: It's amazing.
[00:33:16] Cesar: You know, it's, it's one of the things that people struggle with, you know, and I've struggled with this in the past is we wrap up our identities into what we're doing now, right? Like, and if you've been doing something for 10 plus years, you can help it have your identity. Wrapped up in, in that particular business project in some way, right?
[00:33:37] Cesar: So I'm, I'm wondering if you had similar struggles, you know, when, when it comes to coming to terms to, I guess, let go of the identity and adopting a new identity, you know, like the, the Emma post max old.
[00:33:52] emma: To be honest, I struggled a lot and that was the main thing I'm trying to. [00:34:00] Rebuild myself over the past few months, because it's been 11 plus years, it's been always breathing in and out everything I think of for so long.
[00:34:09] emma: Yeah, but, um, but I enjoy not getting up and get that 8am morning. That's like, oh yeah, I can actually go enjoy time with my family with my kids. Um, they have a splash party next week I can actually finally join a time with the, like connecting with other parents or etc or playing saying sandcastle my kids on the beach.
[00:34:33] emma: So. It's just that it was a lot like you've been tied yourself to that salary that title to that achievement you have that, but that doesn't what really it was a hot moment for me is that those doesn't represent you. You're not equal to title. You're not equal to, to achievement. Like yeah, you're, you're, you are, you as a whole and people love you as the [00:35:00] Emma you see or the, the, the C Cesar you see on somewhere else.
[00:35:03] emma: Is that in, in, if for any one thing I missed the most, Is my team. I miss my people. I miss working with them. I miss collaboration. That's kind of thing.
[00:35:18] Cesar: Yeah. Collaboration with other humans. I think it doesn't get any better than that. And one of the things that it's, it's a challenge, right? Because out there.
[00:35:27] Cesar: You could judge by, especially if you're looking for a job or your next career, you could judge by your previous job titles. And I really don't like that. But unfortunately, you know, that's how most people, especially the people that don't know you, right? Especially if you're trying to break into a new company, right?
[00:35:45] Cesar: They will judge you based on your past job titles. And I just wish that wasn't the case. Um, you know, that's why I'm a big believer into, sure, resumes are a thing, right? But I think what, what speaks more is if you can reach out [00:36:00] to someone and explain, Hey, you know, basically help other people connect the dots, right?
[00:36:07] Cesar: Um, because a piece of paper or your LinkedIn profile, it might come short. So I'm a big believer in taking control of owning your own story and helping other people connect the dots. And explaining, hey, this is why this will be the next best step for me, you know, joining a company or starting a company, right?
[00:36:27] Cesar: Um, because that's, uh, it's a hurdle, right? Trying to get past that, that hurdle of people looking at your job title and saying, oh, you know, Emma is, is this, or, or Cesar is this, but I'm much more than that.
[00:36:39] emma: Yeah, I found, if there's one skill I wish I'd pick up more is the storytelling skill. Thank you. How can you tell your story?
[00:36:48] emma: That's how your own value or how do you shine and all those things. I think that's what's connect with the human directly that connection. The storytelling skills is so important [00:37:00] right now.
[00:37:01] Cesar: Yeah, especially, you know, with AI and the old fake things popping up here and there. Which is I'm a big believer that I think down the road, I think relationships and connections are going to be the only thing that we have.
[00:37:15] Cesar: That's important, right? Because then AI is going to help automate processes and all of this, but the connections that you get to build with actual humans, I think that's going to be the most important part. Um, you know, with a team, with your coworkers, with your family.
[00:37:30] emma: Yep. And innovation when it comes to two different fields clash with each other, the new ideas, the brainstorming session, right?
[00:37:38] emma: And I think those, the human ability to innovate. That's something that I still truly believe in. Yeah.
[00:37:48] Cesar: Um,
[00:37:48] Cesar: you know, with, with customer success, um,
[00:37:50] Cesar: obviously customer is, is at the center, right? But is there any strategies that work for you in terms of building up that function [00:38:00] and reducing churn um, and increasing that, you know, life and value of, of a customer? You know, anything that, that comes to mind that. You can share.
[00:38:08] emma: I think when we look at the definition of customer success, since a customer success manager is your trust advisor, how, you must have heard this, right? All the time, right? You're supposed to upsell. You're supposed to expand and all these things. I think advisor trust is you earn it. It's not something that you throw on a hat and say, I'm your advisor today.
[00:38:35] emma: Is you earn that title. It's not something and before you earn it, there's if you think of the the customer hierarchy of needs, right? I can do be the best relationship builder out in the world. I can have host lavish dinners. But if my basic new my customers. The basic part, which is my product's not working.
[00:38:57] emma: Yeah, or it's too expensive or [00:39:00] something. That base foundation is not there. How can I go up to be the strategic or the commercial role? So I would say customer success, it's, it's a big hat to wear, but you have to look at the entire process or entire product, you see, we have satisfied those basic needs and kind of building up the building blocks going up, then you can have earned that title, then you earn the trust, the customer feel the value that you're providing them.
[00:39:31] emma: Then we can talk about, so a renewal, et cetera.
[00:39:34] Cesar: Yeah, it's, it's so fundamental, right? About earning that trust. It's, it's the foundations for everything that comes after it. Right. And I think a lot of people want to jump or skip that or not give it the importance that it requires, but building trust, right?
[00:39:51] Cesar: It's like, you got to show up for your customer every single day.
[00:39:53] emma: Yep, you have to have a solid product doesn't crash or things of the how the [00:40:00] customer land on your landing page from the start from there. Mm hmm. It's not just, Oh, I got this account and I'm start building trust.
[00:40:06] Cesar: Yeah, it's a it's a building community to right I feel like a lot of people want that to be like a quick.
[00:40:11] Cesar: Quick
[00:40:12] emma: win, but it's
[00:40:13] Cesar: long term. Yeah, exactly. Um, awesome. Well, I want to try a rapid fire round here to wrap up the episode. And basically, I'll ask you a question, and you give me your top of mind answer. You know, I think it's a fun little way to wrap up the episode. Ready? Go on. Let's do it. Um, is there any media that has influenced your life?
[00:40:38] Cesar: Right. And when I say media, it could be a book, it could be a podcast, it could be a course
[00:40:44] emma: if it's different things, if it's a media. Last year was LinkedIn. It opened my eyes to the world. Wow. I have so many different people knowing different, different, different industry and seeing different perspective. Mm-hmm. through different lens of the world. It's very [00:41:00] eye-opening. However, this year it was a book for me, it was, uh, it was called One Word, One Word.
[00:41:08] emma: So instead of setting up your neural resolution, think of the one word you want to be, want to do, like, is a verb, is a noun, that you want to set yourself up to. I'm going for. And this year I set myself as I want to transform. I want to be like water. I want to be there at beginning was water because I want to, there's there's so many different forms of water.
[00:41:35] emma: Yeah. And, yeah. And, but I think the underlying of water is transformation. And this is I set myself training to, I want to transform to somebody. Better, beyond my job titles, beyond my excel, I want to do something forward, and or see, change the light, the way I see life, or see myself, and believe myself, I'm, [00:42:00] yes, this is, this is a world I keep changing, but I believe myself I can transform myself to keep up the change or be ahead or etc.
[00:42:07] emma: So transformation, that one word. So for other people was activate for other people was, um, anything that you believe in that one word and you align your plan your actions towards it.
[00:42:19] Cesar: I love that. I love that. Uh, my one word for this year is unstoppable. And, um, yeah, I think I'm, I'm doing okay so far. Um, Yeah, but I, I'm a, I'm a big believer to it in the one in the power of the one war and just having it visually to like, I have it on my wall here and I look at it and say, okay, yeah, that's right.
[00:42:38] Cesar: I'm supposed to be unstoppable.
[00:42:40] emma: Sing the song unstoppable.
[00:42:43] Cesar: No, I haven't made it that far yet. Awesome, Emma. Well, next, next question here. One of the most worthwhile investments that you have made recently, right? And when I say investments, this could be something financial. It could be a [00:43:00] relationship or it could be maybe a physical thing that you bought yourself.
[00:43:03] Cesar: That's been super helpful. I,
[00:43:06] emma: uh, last this year, I guess I want to work on myself. I hired a life coach, a health coach, and to, to some people, it's like, what's the difference between, um, so there's different role between advisor, coach and consultant, all these things, or even so such a vague idea of why you want to hire a life coach, but I would, I made an investment on myself.
[00:43:30] emma: I want to work on this and together at each session. That's the only thing I work on. So, not many people have that luxury to invest like a life coach or working on long session, but I think it's worth worthwhile. If you can start investing yourself in different ways to work on your whole some or the mental health and take a better, better care of yourself.
[00:43:53] emma: That's I think is very important to get burnout or knowing what you really want,
[00:43:58] Cesar: etc. [00:44:00] Yeah, I, I love coaches because they hold you accountable, even when you know what to do. Right, because a lot of people know what to do, but they don't do it. And that's a way to coach also accountable. Now, I know this is rapid fire, but I'm curious because how did you know you found you found the right coach, because I have had coaches in the past.
[00:44:23] Cesar: Yes. And it's pretty even, right? Some, some of them were good. Some of them were not a fit. I'm not going to say bad because I don't think there's bad coaches. I just think there's bad fits. How do you find, do you feel like it's the right fit for you? Um, cause I feel like a lot of people struggle with finding the right coach.
[00:44:40] Cesar: And then they, they blamed the program, Oh, you know, this program suck, whatever, but maybe it wasn't the right fit. So I'm, I'm curious what that experience has been for you. My
[00:44:49] emma: name drop, her name, how I met Lynn is through another LinkedIn influencer. Our LinkedIn? Our LinkedIn. Yeah. [00:45:00] Yeah. And she, she was, she was talking about the servant leadership.
[00:45:04] emma: Which is kind of like my, I feel like that's my leadership style as well. Being the servant, being the support, being the backbone of the team. But when I look into her profile and what she talks about deeper, it's like, wow, she also was at her previous job for 10 plus years. And now she's through that same journey.
[00:45:22] emma: So you can, I feel related. So I start asking her a question, like, How do you change your mindset? What's the things that you do? Why did you switch all these questions?
[00:45:32] Cesar: I see. So you related to what her values were
[00:45:37] emma: with her message. Yeah. And really be opened. I think a lot of, I think, I think a lot of coaches, um, um, is that she, I think you said holding accountable, right?
[00:45:51] emma: That's one thing. Yeah.
[00:45:53] Cesar: Yeah. And someone else told me, sorry, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Someone else told me,[00:46:00] um, beware of the coach that tells you what to do versus asking you the questions. Yes. And I thought that was powerful.
[00:46:08] emma: Yeah, that's very, yeah, that's very true. That's very true. Um, that's, so another thing I would say invested in.
[00:46:16] emma: Another thing I invest in itself is a continuous learning professional development. Mm-hmm. . Because when you're in your field for so long, let's say it's customer success, right? You, you lose that sight of what are the other departments are working on. Right. So I invest myself in the professional communities and developments and learn like revenue operations, marketing, finance, all these things like, Oh, that's what it looks like from the other world.
[00:46:42] Cesar: What are, um, what are some of the best places that you've gone to? I think I saw pavilion on on your. Yes. Yeah.
[00:46:49] emma: Yeah. I, I started. Yeah, it was pavilion. And I also joined other ones. For example, um, section four.[00:47:00]
[00:47:00] Cesar: Professor
[00:47:01] emma: G. Yes, Professor G. And if and also I joined CIA, sorry, SIA, Sales Impact Academy. Yeah. So what I can tell with all these three different things is The best course of all these I took was actually was Professor G's brand strategy.
[00:47:24] emma: Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was really because I was meeting people from different industries, even not just the B2B sales and marketing. I live with people from Disney. I met for people for like all these crazy industry from the, um, soda stream and all these things as well, because now you're not only in your cocoon, you're actually meeting other people.
[00:47:44] emma: Yeah. But the best part of that. Brand strategies. I think any brand strategy, they think of the core value of what you're serving. What is it you're trying to serve? What's the ultimate? What is that? So everything I look now is kind of like the, the [00:48:00] targets that circle, like what is the main, what is like, how do you differentiate with other people or how do you, what is it?
[00:48:06] emma: So that brand strategy courses keep in my mind when I look at things different. Differently and also help me in customer success, right? Like,
[00:48:14] Cesar: yeah, absolutely. Love that. Yeah. Now, um, next question here. There's there's a quote on your on your LinkedIn. Uh, and I think it goes, uh, turning your why into what?
[00:48:23] Cesar: What if? Yeah. What does that
[00:48:25] emma: mean to you? I watch. What if? So it's I, this comes. Um, the first thing I come in mind was this. We have a problem to solve. What if we do something differently? Why the customer have this need? What if we do it this way differently, but also it goes back to Chris. Um, never split the difference.
[00:48:48] emma: Why is a very strong word when you come from why you do this, right? It's very accusing. But if you change your question to a different way, how about we do this? What if we do [00:49:00] this? It's more approaching. It's more you let the listener or whoever conversation with more open. Yeah. So it's like two different aspects I see in that.
[00:49:09] emma: That's the headline I set for myself. I want to be more collaborative. I want to find a solution for a problem, but also like open my mind to other possibilities and such trend.
[00:49:21] Cesar: I like that. I'm a big fan of that. What if we get Emma on the podcast, right? I love that. Um, two more questions and then we'll get, we can wrap it up.
[00:49:30] Cesar: Is there any new habit that you have been practicing daily that has been, uh, impactful in your day to day routine?
[00:49:39] Cesar: New habit
[00:49:40] emma: I have started.
[00:49:42] Cesar: Mm hmm. Or perhaps an old habit that you're trying to, you know, practice and perfect.
[00:49:46] emma: That's a good one. I'm... So, we talk about chat TTP. There's a joke about everything now is AI, AI, AI, this, AI, that. So, my curiosity, what can I do [00:50:00] beyond just writing content stuff? Like, what is this?
[00:50:03] emma: Right? So I, I started learning about plugins. I started learning about how, what can I do more, uh, with, um, ChatterGP. I love playing around with mid journey, creating my own image. Having that,
[00:50:16] emma: and I see, um, I think Lyndon Murphy said that writing prompts will be like, kind of, kind of like your requirement as one of your skills get as a CSM, how to write better prompts. And I also, um, see the application on business with traffic people. We see more and more, let's say, a game site turns there are all these big platforms are adapting AI, right, and how to create more effective messages or align, like, data insights, etc.
[00:50:48] emma: So there is that element of that. I just want to learn more about this trend and Technology. That's where I am.
[00:50:55] Cesar: Love that. I'm in the same boat. Um, I'm sticking with LGBT for now, [00:51:00] because, you know, everything else sounds overwhelming. Uh, and of course, you know, with the podcast itself, you know, the script and other tools that have incorporated AI into it, but I found it to be super helpful if you have a specific project, um, and how can you incorporate AI into that project, right?
[00:51:16] Cesar: Because then you have like an end goal instead of just trying different tools and you have nothing really concrete, right? You're just trying them out. Yeah,
[00:51:25] emma: but also have that, you know, doubt, double check your information. Yes. Yes. Apparently, a lawyer was sued by using ChatterVP to create their case was like based on, you know, it can be.
[00:51:37] emma: Yeah. So there's, yeah, so yeah, be careful. Move with caution. That's what I would say.
[00:51:42] Cesar: Absolutely. Awesome. And one last question here. Um, what advice would you have for other ambitious professionals? Um, you know, either starting off with a career or perhaps someone that is, uh, pretty advanced in their career and maybe they're looking to pivot.
[00:51:55] Cesar: Um, what advice would you have for them as it relates to navigating their, their own [00:52:00] career and navigating the, the transitions in, in, in their life?
[00:52:05] emma: Going back to a pivot. So be willing to pivot, be willing to learn from your failures. Failure is not a failure, it's just a lesson that life throws you to learn.
[00:52:17] emma: And if you don't learn it, it's just hitting you until you learn it. So I started seeing it. That as well. Yeah. Just be willing to pivot, be humble and just like, keep learning. Yeah. Yeah. There's no end stage of life that you, Oh, I'm the best in the world or central is always something to whoever's better than you.
[00:52:41] emma: And you always can learn from people. You said, how does that affect you? Right.
[00:52:45] Cesar: Yeah. Yeah. Pivoting in the research mindset, right? It's an experiment. What's the data telling you? And then, you know, what's helpful. What's not love that. Awesome. Emma. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show and sharing a bit more about your [00:53:00] journey with us.
[00:53:00] Cesar: Uh, it's been fun getting to know, uh, different phases of, of different stages of your life. And, um, yeah, you know, if people wanted to reach out to you, what's like the best way to, to get ahold of you.
[00:53:11] emma: LinkedIn suggests to send me a message on LinkedIn.
[00:53:15] Cesar: Yeah. Awesome. Well, we'll make sure to add it to show notes.
[00:53:18] Cesar: Um, but yeah, for now, thanks so much for coming to show and we'll, we'll love to catch up down the road to see, you know, where we're at. Uh, but for now, thank you.
[00:53:25] emma: Thank you. Awesome. All right.
[00:53:26] Cesar: all right. I hope you enjoyed this episode and thank you so much for listening all the way through. I appreciate you. And I hope that you get some valuable information that you can apply to our personal and professional life. If this story resonated with you and you would like to support the podcast.
[00:53:48] Cesar: Please make sure to subscribe. So you don't miss out on any future episodes. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I appreciate you. And I look forward to serving you in the next episode. [00:54:00]