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The PJs introduce and discuss one of the Three Classes of Spiritual Gifts: The Positional Gifts.
"What the Flock?" is a podcast where we discuss the source of damage done by the church. Unfortunately, people have been hurt so bad by the church that they don't want to go to church anymore. We're here to help you protect yourself from the abuse that has, and is currently happening. Perhaps, you may even learn how to go back to church and help others.
The “Strict Side” of this topic will use the following verse in an attempt to prove that there are no longer prophets or the gift of prophet…
Revelation 22:18-19 - 18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
-Why do I apply these verses to the entire Bible? Who decided to take this passage from ONE book and apply it to the entire Bible? Man or God?
-Is God no longer speaking to people as He did to the people who wrote the books within the Bible?
The “Strict Side” of this topic will use the following verse in an attempt to prove that there are no longer apostles…
Acts 1:21-23 - 20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms: ‘Let his dwelling place be desolate,
And let no one live in it’; and, ‘Let another take his office.’
21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” 23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
-Peter said that one of the men that was with them since Jesus' baptism by John the Baptist must be ordained to be a witness of Jesus' resurrection. Verse 22 is often interpreted to mean that the requirement for all apostles was to have seen Jesus after His resurrection, which would mean that there are no more apostles today. This verse did NOT say that. The Apostles of that time wanted that to be a requirement for the sake of their ministry to the early believers. This does not mean that there have not been apostles since that time.
-this is an example of taking a verse at the Contextual Level and trying to apply it at the Doctrine Level… doing this introduces contradictions (Check out the “Doctrine” episode from Season 3).
Here are two verses that prove there are more than 12 apostles…
Acts 14:14 - “But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude, crying out…”
-Notice, Barnabas is explicitly named as an apostle… he was NOT among the 12 (neither was Paul!).
Revelation 2:1-2 - 1 “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, ‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;...”
-Here we see the church of Ephesus being affirmed for her ability to discern the gift of apostle. If there weren’t any more apostles, any person who claimed to be one would have been a liar… why would this have been affirmed if it was that simple? This proves there are apostles and that a church ought to be able to identify those who aren’t and those who ARE!
And here’s a deeper dive into the verses that proceed Ephesians 4:11…
Ephesians 4:7-16
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
-Grace is the divine influence upon the heart and its reflection in the life
-this is the Holy Spirit in and thru us… given to EVERYONE
8 Therefore He says, “When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men.”
-Paul referenced Psalm 68:18… this Psalm was meant to be a picture of a military leader returning to Jerusalem at the head of his followers, after routing an enemy army, taking many prisoners, and with spoils of war in hand!
-Here, Jesus is the picture of a victorious Military General!!!
-Another way to read vs 8, “Jesus, the Conquering King, mastered the spiritual realm and took spoils and GAVE those spoils to men”
9 (Now this, “He ascended” —what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
-Jesus also went to the depths… and again won a battle and GAVE His spoils of war to the righteous… Again, The Conquering King!!
-Jesus won two battles, these were both spiritual battles:
1) up, when he ascended, and…
2) down, when he descended
-After these victories by our Conquering King, He gives to us gifts…
…Jesus did His job, now He’s left the spoils the Church needs in order to fulfill the mission He’s left us with
-Now, Paul shares with us what some of these spoils of war are, the spoils/gifts Jesus gave…
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
-Jesus Gave and IS GIVING… “gave” is “present/active” tense. Other translations have even used the word “gives” in the place of “gave.”
-These are Offices (positions/roles) that NOT everyone holds… “gave some.”
-yet, we are ALL beneficiaries of these gifts… and we are all part of the plan these gifts are meant to accomplish.
-these are each a spiritual power in 5 contexts!!
-Jesus set us up for success to do the job He left for us… and He was the perfect example of EACH of these…
-Jesus held 5 offices… Jesus is…
THE Apostle, THE Prophet, THE Evangelist, THE Pastor, THE Teacher…
…the best EVER at EACH and ALL of these!
12 for the perfecting of the saints, unto the work of ministering, unto the building up of the body of Christ:
-Verse 12 was the purpose of the Positional Spiritual Gifts.
-Jesus gave these specific gifts to the Church so that individuals would be matured by serving each other so that the entire Church would be built up. How long would the Church need these gifts?
13 till we all attain unto the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a fullgrown man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
-We need these gifts until the Church is unified, fully matured in knowledge until we are equal to Christ!
-This was a tough verse until one remembered that if Christ is going to marry the Bride, why would Christ marry someone who was not His equal?
-This was a general measure from Paul, however, Paul continued to give specific measures…
14 that we may be no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error;
-We will need these gifts until we are no longer acting like children who are unstable when it comes to Doctrine and interactions with deceivers.
15 but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, even Christ;
-Verse 15 began with our job description in eternity: speaking truth in love.
-We will spend eternity speaking truth in love to each other. This is the ultimate example of fellowship (exchange in love), between two individuals, according to their uniqueness.
-The goal is for all of us growing up into Jesus who is the Head of the Body (Church).
16 from whom all the body fitly framed and knit together through that which every joint supplieth, according to the working in due measure of each several part, maketh the increase of the body unto the building up of itself in love.
-The Bride will be made up of all of us who will be in the part of the Body we were designed for, so that we speak the truth in love to the other parts we are joined to, with the overall result being the building up of the Body for eternity.
-A lot of people think heaven/the new Jerusalem is a Have (possession) or a Do (activity):
-Have example: "I can't wait until I have a cadillac in heaven."
-Do example: "I can't wait until I can play golf every day in heaven."
Some people see church today as the same thing:
-Have example: "We have a big building."
-Do example: "I like singing in the choir."
-Eternity with Christ is about an ARE, it's about fellowship, sharing, speaking truth in love to each other.
-Churches today ought to have the same focus.
-Possessions and activities cannot increase in eternity.
-Fellowship and love can continually increase in eternity.