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Janie Heuck is the managing director at Brooks Winery in Willamette Valley, Oregon and began her winemaking journey after taking over her brother’s winery in 2004 when he suddenly passed away. Jonathan and Janie speak about the evolution Brooks Winery has taken and how the sudden loss of her brother has caused her to place a bigger emphasis on living and loving life and the people around her.
Jane has honored her brother’s spirit through her efforts and has taken an active role in fostering community. “Not everything you produce, you need to capitalize on.”
Conquer the Noise is a podcast dedicated to telling stories of outstanding ideas and people who have found their way amongst the chatter.
Series: Cultivating Purpose & Passion in Business
In an environment of cultural change and demanding consumer expectations, engage with fellow marketing leaders and hear how they navigate brand relevance, impact and authenticity. In this series, we will explore how to create a greater impact on your business and community by cultivating purpose and passion into actionable items. During this session we’ll discuss ways brands and businesses can better connect with the environment and their community. Learn from 1% leaders on how they bring values in sustainability through all aspects of their brand and business.
Unconquered presents this series in partnership with 1% For The Planet's Be 1% Better Campaign. Unconquered is an independent creative agency challenging brand perspective through redefined content. We founded the agency to create work with a sense of purpose beyond itself, using commerce to change the world. We believe the unconquered spirit is at the heart of every great brand.
Credits:
Thank you to all of our guests, without you this wouldn't exist.
Art - Mike McNeive, Partner @ Drexler https://drxlr.com/
Audio - Harry Glaser
Speaker 1: Conquer The noise is a podcast produced by Unconquered, an independent agency. This podcast is dedicated to telling stories of outstanding ideas and people who have found their way amongst the chatter.
Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Hanson, chief creative officer at Unconquered and your host of Conquer The noise. Today, we're talking with Janie Heuck, managing director at Brooks winery. I'm really excited to share this one with you, especially for all your wine lovers and nerds [00:00:30] out there. In this episode, we talk about how the loss of her brother, Jimmy, who started the winery has fueled the business with passion and purpose. We talked through biodynamic farming, geek out on wine, and how focusing on what's important like family and community creates a business that supports their people. Janie, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Jonathan. I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thank you. I'm very excited too. I'm a big wine nerd. So I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while. Um, I actually got I've tasted your wines [00:01:00] and I was first introduced to your when, um, I was at the 1% for the planet, uh, conference in Portland. Uh, I think it was last year.
Speaker 2: It was last year. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Did you go or did you attend?
Speaker 2: I was there, yeah. I had three or four people from my team that helped me port that night so that I could mingle and get to know people, but I was there for the whole conference. That was great.
Speaker 1: And what wine, what wines were you pouring that night?
Speaker 2: We poured the Ruston Pinot noir, [00:01:30] um, which is from our estate vineyard. And then we also poured the estate Ling.
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah. I remember tasting the Pinot. I don't think I've had the Ling yet. Um, but I was reading through your background a little bit and it's, it sounds like a really interesting for you going from seems like a very finance heavy working in the back end of business to now running a, a winery, which I'm sure is a whole nother ballgame. I would love to hear how you got introduced into wine and, um, talk through that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, [00:02:00] it's um, it's, it's a good story for sure. Um, I started in my career, I was an accounting major when I got out of college. I went to Arizona state, got my CPA, um, ended up dating my boss and therefore had to leave the department and got put into the healthcare consulting department for one of the big eight firms. Um, so really got into healthcare at that point from the financial modeling stand back in the mid nineties later [00:02:30] nineties. And that led me to a company that I helped start up actually. Um, it still exists today, which is so, so fun. It's called silver sneakers. Um, and it was a great startup company. Loved it. And after we were in for about five years, my husband got the opportunity for a job of his lifetime in California. So we moved to California. I decided to be a stay at home mom cause I had a little girl at that time and four years into that.
Speaker 2: Um, [00:03:00] my brother who we were born and raised in Portland, he graduated from college, moved to Europe, didn't know what he wanted to do for a living and ended up working harvest in Bo for six years, got married, had a baby and decided to come back to the United States. So he got a job in wine country, into Willamette valley. And after about four years of that position in business, he, um, he passed away unexpectedly at the age of 38, um, on a Saturday morning during harvest. [00:03:30] And I, you know, I really didn't know I was, I knew nothing about wine. Um, I knew a little bit about his winery, but it was, it was tiny. He had only had four vintages by that point. And I flew from California the night that he passed away and got sat down by a bunch of winemakers from the Willamette valley who said, you know, they wanted to do a couple things.
Speaker 2: They told, they explained to me that harvest was coming. It was just a few weeks away. And the, they wanted to [00:04:00] make sure that all the growers that my brother was purchasing grapes from, um, had their contracts and that they felt that that was super important part to support their community. And they also said that, you know, my brother talked about the winery was really the only thing he had as a legacy to lead his son. So those two things combined, they decided to offer to, to my brother's fruit that year for harvest and make the wine for free and asked me to get involved in the business side. Um, [00:04:30] I, I had to say, yes, our parents had passed away four years prior. I was his only sibling and he was no longer married to his wife. So it was really just him and his eight year old son.
Speaker 2: So I was gonna to do something with all of its belongings anyway, and going through that process, you know, and coming from competitive healthcare, I was so taken by the kindness and the passion and the generosity of the Oregon wine community. [00:05:00] And then you combine that with it was it, you know, my last name and my family's winery and here's my brother's eight year old son that who now owns a winery and just decided to, to try to keep it going. So I've been doing this for 15 years now. Um, lucky to be anchored with our assistant winemaker, Chris Williams, who was my brother's winemaker. So he's actually been with the brand for, for 20 years. He's been with that long than I have. So that's how I got here.
Speaker 1: wow. That's [00:05:30] uh, that's an emotionally charged entrance into wine for sure. Um, when your brother was in Bo doing harvest, was he work, was he more working in the fields or was he actually involved in like the winemaking process?
Speaker 2: He was working for domain de shops. Mm-hmm they made pina Gama and Charna and he worked for the same place all six years mm-hmm and that he learned about biodynamic farming when he was there. [00:06:00] So that was one of the things that he brought back. Um, when he started his winery in Oregon, he also spent a lot of time in SAU and really fell in love with Ling and other aromatic whites. So when he launched into the Oregon wine industry, he came in making a little bit of a statement by bringing biodynamic farming and the reputation of recently in the valley.
Speaker 1: So he's really a pioneer in that, in that field, in that area. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I spent some time in burgundy this past year. It was my first trip, [00:06:30] um, and just completely fell in love with it. It's it, the food, the wine, the culture. Um, I had it my first trip to France and, you know, while we were there, we were of course tasting and eating as much as we possibly could. Um, and there is such a connection between land and flavor, um, that I don't, I haven't really experienced it quite like I have, uh, there in the, in the United States. So I can see how someone would totally fall [00:07:00] in love with, um, with, with wine making and, and that connection to land there. Um, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: Say we continued that connection to the thess family in Bole, my nephew, and I went there. It was a year ago, um, and went and met the family and the second generation was, you know, the same age as what my brother would be. And that was who he worked harvest with every year. And my nephew, [00:07:30] his name is Pascal and he was one of the harvest interns, um, with my brother and we got to meet Pascal. So my brother got to meet his name fakes. So here you have
Speaker 1: Amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think he did this huge wine industry, but it's still super small family, all on the same property, same wine making equipment. And this past harvest, my nephew actually went and worked harvest for them. Um, slept in the same bed. My brother did just an amazing commitment to tradition.
Speaker 1: [00:08:00] Yeah. I think, I think, I think people don't quite see or realize how much, um, or how close Hawaiian making is to family and how it's usually family businesses, um, producing small batches of wine that have either been there for generations or like in your case, um, come back and, and, and start the tradition that being in the family. Um, did he, did your, did your brother bring back some of those clones? Is that where you started got [00:08:30] some of your early, early grapes?
Speaker 2: No, and he, he purchased scrapes while he was living and in kind of his pursuit of Ling, he discovered a vineyard that was planted in the early seventies that had five acres of reasoning as well Asmar and some other de, and when he passed away, the farmer of that vineyard asked if I would continue to buy the fruit. And I said, yes. And he was also planning on selling it to my brother. [00:09:00] So he managed, I like to say Don suckered, my husband and, and I into purchasing that vineyard mm-hmm . So Jimmy never owned his own vineyard, but now we have his favorite vineyard, this part of our estate.
Speaker 1: So why I'm making is, uh, it seems like it's a really tough business to, to, to make a living and be sustainable. Um, you know, half your inventory is in a seller waiting, gonna be distributed while you're currently putting out money to, to, to, to nurture and, and, and [00:09:30] create the next, the next vintage. Um, you know, how with your background business, as you, you think that's really helped the, the business grow and, and be successful in the last few years, or what are some of those challenges that you, you are constantly facing?
Speaker 2: You know, I, I kind of abandon a lot of my business background in the line industry. really moved into the marketing and sales side. Cause I, as I continue to explain to my, my husband, the numbers, aren't going to look good if I'm not selling any, [00:10:00] um, you know, we grew from 2,500 cases. That's how much my brother was making to, we peaked at 27,000.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's incredible.
Speaker 2: A couple of years ago, we're back down to 20,000 and that's really, really where we wanna stay. So it's funny, right? Cause this would've been the first year, like last year we sold 21,000 cases, even though we only made 20, so 20, 20, I was excited that maybe we would do that again. Mm-hmm we really start to see the change in [00:10:30] cash and much better ROI. And then we have the virus
Speaker 1: . Yeah. How are you? So has that affect affected your business at all? I know some alcohol sales are up, you know, some ancillary businesses on the side, cannabis sales are up. Um, how, how is it affecting your business?
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it really depends on your sales channel as a winery and your price points. And we're kind of in the middle of the road, we're not on the low end of the price scale. We're often not on the super premium end [00:11:00] and about 40% of our product is distributed nationally around the country. And the vast majority of that is in independent restaurants. Mm-hmm so you can imagine that yeah. Dried up. Yeah. Um, 30% within our tasting room. Um, so we have a very busy taste that closed on March 17th. We're actually about to have a soft opening today.
Speaker 1: Oh, congrats.
Speaker 2: And, yeah, thanks. And we'll be reopening, um, on Monday. So, [00:11:30] you know, it's a great time to reopen at summer. The weather's great in Oregon. Um, the new policies and procedures have really pushed us to actually add seating and, and outdoor seating. So I think it's gonna be wonderful. We have a lot of space, so I'm super excited about that. And then the other third of our business comes from wine club and that's been super stable through this whole thing, which has been great.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I, I think wine pricing is always one of those like mysteries to the consumer. Mm-hmm, assuming like the more expensive [00:12:00] the bottle, the better it is. Um, and you know, that's not necessarily always, always the case. How are you finding your price point in, in such, I mean, in such a crowded market. And I think I even read somewhere that majority of the sales are in like the 10 to $12 range. Um,
Speaker 2: Yeah. And most of the data that you see about wine sales all comes from Nielsen. So that's stuff that's coming outta grocery stores and big box retailers. So it doesn't necessarily tend [00:12:30] to be the less expensive product, but it is by and large. And that Corey's doing very, very well right now. You know, my brother had priced his lines and really had this mission of keeping wines accessible. So we have done modest if any, hardly price increases in the last 15 years. And part of that is an ethical thing for me because I do know what it costs for me to make a bottle of wine mm-hmm and we probably work as hard as anyone. Like we keep things in super small lots, [00:13:00] even though we make 20,000 cases, which is a lot of tank space, a lot of equipment we do hold over PS and a lot of them in barrel for an extra year, which again is a lot of space. It's a lot of equipment. It's a lot of time, it's a lot of labor, but I wanna be, I wanna make enough money to survive, but I also want our wines to stay accessible. So we're, we're touted often as a value brand because our wines tend to over for the price and I'd rather [00:13:30] than the other.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I love Napa wine, but my biggest qu with Napa wine is it's so expensive. Um, you know, it's hard to get like a, a good bottle over, um, you know, like 20 BU or under 20 bucks. Um, and, and from Napa valley because of that, um, no, your, your, your brother really focused on creating like a bio dynamic, um, program there. And you [00:14:00] mentioned the amount of work that it takes. You know, I, it sounds like being a bio biodynamic winery actually would be more work, uh, than maybe a, a winery that embraces, um, more, I don't wanna say a factory approach, but that is less careful about the environment that it is. Um, you know, I, I read somewhere that you're you practice, um, specific vegetation, having different vegetation around the property to help with Greek growth. [00:14:30] I would love to hear like what that exactly is for you guys, what we are actually doing around that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, most of the Oregon is still, um, hand work. It's not a lot of, um, automated work in terms of machinery. So everybody pretty much is doing a lot of manual labor in Oregon. One of the biggest differences, biodynamics is how you control your weeds. Um, and you can't use, you know, obviously the round ups of the world and those types of chemicals, whatever would I ever [00:15:00] want to. So you have to make an investment in something as simple as the tractor implement, but actually can help you with your cultivation. Um, it does cost more money, of course, or you can hand ho but obviously labor is much more expensive than, um, having something on your tractor. Um, and both of those are more expensive than just using a simple chemical. And there are some additional steps that we take in biodynamics that aren't done even in organic farming.
Speaker 2: And those are related to the different, [00:15:30] um, preparations that we use, that we add to the vineyard that really help with soil nutrition, um, and plant growth. And they're all natural. So we make different things and fatigue. Um, we use cow manure, organic cow manure, um, as, as a type of fertilizer. So there are additional steps that we take in the biodynamic garden and then we're also a little restricted in terms of timing. Um, biodynamics is based on the celestial calendar and that's a farming method back to the early 19 hundreds [00:16:00] that Rudolph Steiner mm-hmm started. And, um, so you do focus on the cycles of the moon and taking appropriate actions during appropriate times of those cycles as well.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm so with mother be nature being so unpredictable, um, you know, going back to even that business question where we're speaking to earlier about how, you know, how do you balance between having wine sitting in a cell growing, [00:16:30] and then you add in the unpredictably unpredictability of mother nature, um, you know, how are you, how do you manage that? Like just seem like such an overwhelming, uh, thing to always become worrying about the weather worrying about the right time to pick or harvest. Um, how do you handle that?
Speaker 2: You know, we're super consistent with how we handle it. Uh, um, because in Oregon, especially, you know, we're, we're fortunate in that we get [00:17:00] a lot of rainfall during the right season. So we get a lot of rain in the winter. We get a lot of rain in the spring, more often than not. We have completely dry summers, um, and summer the, the warmth of summers as well as sunlight or super important during the ripening phase of the grapevine, which the, that happens with the fruit typically during the summer harvest is just typically where it gets the most tricky for us, just because the weather can be unpredictable in September and October [00:17:30] us like the rest of the world. I mean, we just had four vintages that were super warm and there's some people that love super warm vintages because their fruit gets to a certain ripeness sugar wise and they can pick that fruit.
Speaker 2: Our approach is, you know, being biodynamic, not only in the vineyard, but in the winery, we don't manipulate our wines at all. So the grapes, you have to be patient and make sure that the grapes not only have the rightness from a sugar standpoint, but more importantly from the flavor standpoint. And that isn't a number that is, that is our wine maker [00:18:00] tasting, you know, the fruit from different sections of a vineyard before he makes that decision. And, you know, often if you are making addition to your wine, it all doesn't even really matter when you pick it, right? Cause you can make adjustments, but get it into whatever style and balance that you want. We've never done that. Um, so for us, we have to be very patient in terms of the growing season. 2019 was a great example of that. We would have three or four days of rain and you took a risk of waiting to the other side of the rain, but [00:18:30] then maybe you got lucky and had three or four days of dry weather and yeah, you could reevaluate whether or not you were ready to pick. So patience as a virtue is definitely is saying for us and how we make our picking decisions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. I guess I don't think until I really went to, to, to burgundy that really understand the idea of terroir and how that impacts wines and, um, [00:19:00] really tasting that. Like, I guess I hate to say it sounds so clay, but the, the cliche, but the expression of the land, right. Um, it, is that a big focus for you just as part of that biodynamic, um, approach is really nurturing it, so you can really get the truest expression of the land.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In terms of approaching both the vineyard and the winery from, like I said, not manipulating anything obviously helps with that, but we also, in addition to our estate, we purchased from about [00:19:30] 30 vineyards . And the reason that we do that, um, is to find those dis different expressions, right? So we wanna go find Pinot noir on the two primary soil types in Oregon, not just the one that are vineyard, we wanna find different clones. We wanna find vines that were planted in the seventies and vines that were planted in the two thousands, because that produces the different level rightness. We wanna find grape vines that are planted facing east versus getting the afternoon sun facing west, um, different [00:20:00] elevations make a difference. So we go out and kind of create all these small lots that end up being the pallet at the end of the day that our wine maker gets to use when he gets to the point of blending. So we keep everything small and separate all the way through the process until we're ready to bottle
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm um, you know what I love, I think most about wine and food is the community. It builds, you know, I've so, so my best and most favorite memories are around family, friends. Uh, the meal, [00:20:30] we had, the, the wine, we had my, our friends always amazed about how I refer to things by memories, by what we ate and what we drank, um, not by what we were actually like talking about her doing. I'm like, oh, remember, oh yeah. When we had that one wine, or when we, when we had this one experience with this restaurant, it's, it's how I pretty much frame a lot of my memory. Mm-hmm . Um, and I think that's, it seems like really true in this case that, um, this, this, your winery, your, your wine making [00:21:00] is a, a reflection or connection to that memory of your brother mm-hmm . Um, I would love for it to hear how you're sort of still honoring his, his legacy, um, in your winemaking.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So part of it from a wine making standpoint, we really have tried to keep our approach to wine making the same. So when Jimmy was alive and he would harvest fruit, he would use vessels of a, you know, a two-ten size , we're making 10 times that amount of what [00:21:30] is it? 10 times. Yeah. 10 times the amount of fruit. We still use vessels that same size. So we haven't moved, even though we've increased production to larger tanks. Um, and that was, you know, cuz that's the way my brother taught our winemaker how to make wine. So we don't know any different and we don't wanna try anything different because that's the way Jimmy thought was the right way to do it basically. Yeah. Um, and same with that philosophy all the way through. Um, and we've talked a lot about farming, you know, the other thing that we've done, [00:22:00] we had our 20 year anniversary two years ago and there were 12 wineries that helped us the year my brother passed away.
Speaker 2: And so for 20 year anniversary, we actually featured one of those wineries once a month. And we brought in their red wine and a white wine indoor tasting room. So they were on our tasting flights for the whole month. Um, and it was an amazing way just to, to support them cuz they've always so supported me. I still feel so into edit to them because [00:22:30] they could have all said to me, they were gonna take the fruit that first year and close the winery down. And I probably would've said, okay, but I feel like they gave me such a gift because their vision was to continue the winery for us. We also have two walls in our winery that are lined with barrel stays. And some of those barrels came from each one of those 12 wineries. And so we have their logos engraved, um, in those barrel states. So any, any guest that comes to our winery gets to see who helped us [00:23:00] mm-hmm , you know, they're on our website and, and they're an amazing part of our community.
Speaker 1: Have you, do you, did, do you have library wines? Did you, you, do you have a bottles from that, that, that vintage, when your brother passed that you open and, and celebrate with to honor him?
Speaker 2: I do. And you know, we, we don't have a lot of what he made because when I first took over everybody's focus was cell line cell line, cell line vibe.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Which was great. [00:23:30] But I, we sold a lot of, you know, we sold out of some completely. I had no idea that it would've been a nice gesture maybe to save some of those lines. Um, and we do open the ones that we have on occasion. Um, but the 2004 vintage is really special because depending on what bottle you pick, it's different people that participated in actually making the wine behind that bottle.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm yeah. I think like I have, my hardest part is always saving [00:24:00] wine I always have the intention. I, I, I, I buy bottles and um, you know, nice ones save 'em and then they last a month in my seller and, um, you know, I always, my excuse is always, the occasion is opening the wine. Um,
Speaker 2: But every day is an occasion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Um, so I mean, it, it, it really sounds like passion is really a part of wine making a really a part of your business now and in your role there, um, [00:24:30] I would love to hear how you're blending this passion and your community at the same time. It sounds like you you're honoring the community and, and how they came together and, and helped, uh, pull you in the winery through a very difficult time. Um, but are there other initiatives that you're doing to, to do that?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, we, we have a lot actually, um, just depends on which community you're talking about, right? Yeah. Cause we have our local community that we, you know, we're kinda out [00:25:00] the middle of nowhere. And so when we built this new winery, we knew we needed to make it a destination. Um, and it's really become more of a lounge and kind of a hangout spot for people. And we have food and we do this one event in the summer called pizza Fridays mm-hmm . And it's like my favorite thing ever to see a table of growers sitting together who have known each other for 30 years growing, you know, grapes in the Willamette valley mm-hmm um, and it's a community that in turn supports us, right. We're there for them. But [00:25:30] then they also are really great visitors with us. We have, you know, right now the restaurant and Somalia community around the world.
Speaker 2: Um, but definitely in this country is a huge part of my community in terms of my friendships. Um, and they're all, you know, really, really, really struggling right now. So we just launch two weeks ago, we make some wine with some different so, and we offered them that we could sell those through our website. Mm-hmm [00:26:00] they could donate the funds to charities of their choice, nonprofits of their choice. So there's four nonprofits that we've been giving to for the last two weeks will continue to, until those lines are sold out. Um, you know, from my financial standpoint, we're recovering what we would've had should we had, we shipped those lines to the restaurants, but it's the margin difference that we're donating, um, which feels great. You know, we did [00:26:30] some stuff recently to, with the frontline workers, the Willamette valley winery association, we all donated wine and I'm not sure what the top donation was, but I know we were right up there. I donated 50 cases of wine to the workers on the front lines and the hospitals from Eugene to Portland, um, you know, wine to me is right now I don't have cash , but I have a lot of wine. So however I can do good with my wine for people and make a difference for [00:27:00] them, whether it's even just a simple care package to something that we've been doing,
Speaker 1: You know, wine is currency. I, so while I was in, um, France, this past November, I actually shot a wedding in exchange for wine I don't, I don't, I'm not, I don't usually shoot, uh, weddings and I don't, I was a photographer for 12 years before opening up on Concord. Um, so it's definitely my skill set, but we were in burgundy and, um, you know, they asked [00:27:30] how much it would cost. And I said, how about a, you know, a case and a half of wine and, um, you know, I get back and to us and I got a case and a half of wine waiting for me for some amazing burgundy wines. Um, and you know, the experiences I think you get out of drinking those and sharing those with people are way more valuable than, um, my paycheck sometimes. Um, but you know, it's also hard to say when rents do and got bills to pay, but, um, you know, it's the priorities, right?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
Speaker 1: [00:28:00] Um, so I, um, I love how you guys are really on the, the environment really honoring the land, um, and the time and the people who, who go into making it. Um, you know, both of us are part of 1% for the planet, um, where we are donating part of our, our revenue to environmental causes. We're what, what kind of, um, nonprofits are you supporting?
Speaker 2: So we just picked one to start because I really wanted to see how deep of a relationship I could develop. [00:28:30] Mm-hmm um, so we're working with kiss the ground mm-hmm and they're, they're based in Los Angeles and they're, they're more of a media company that is out to educate and promote, um, good farm. And when you do that, the impact it has on climate change mm-hmm um, so they just released a biodynamic film, a small short one that we're, we were a sponsor of. So I've been able to, to direct my, the, [00:29:00] the money I've given them to specific projects, we're also doing a farming scholarship, and then some of it is UND designated for them to use, to support their business. Mm-hmm . Um, but it's a great, they, you know, we really match in terms of, um, comparable beliefs about farming, of course, but they also are very heavy in education. So their website offers a lot of different educational classes that people can. Um, they're, they're just launching [00:29:30] a full length documentary on farming, um, that was supposed to come out on earth day. Uh, but they they've been fantastic. They're, they're very vocal about, um, the farming and why you need to be doing it the right way. So it's been, it's been a great partnership.
Speaker 1: It sounds like relationship building and people are really important to you, um, in your business. And that's really refreshing to hear that you're, um, prioritizing that [00:30:00] and going back to what we were talking about earlier, I love the idea of ethics and, and wine making and pricing and accessibility. Um, so I, I think, I definitely think that's an example of how your, your decisions are affecting your community. And I would love to talk through like, you know, how you come to these conclusions. Um, you know, you've been in business a long time, you've had a lot of different experiences. Has it always been here or was there a moment when, when you realized that these [00:30:30] are, this is what's important,
Speaker 2: You know, I've, I've always been the type to persevere, you know, kind of not looking that there's something they can't accomplish, you know, well, I don't care what percent it passes, their all four parts of the CPA exam at once. I can do that type of mentality, but definitely with all of the loss that I've had in my life, um, losing my parents, I lost them two months apart, back in 2000 and then losing my brother four [00:31:00] years later, unexpectedly has really made me just embrace living and, and being grateful for life and making decisions that feel good, I guess, at the end of the day mm-hmm . And you know, we're only here for a certain amount of time. And so to not be giving back to not be supporting others, you know, there's so much shortsighted, I think in people and even like with this whole pandemic, it's like right now is about [00:31:30] brand building and deepening your relationships and building loyalty.
Speaker 2: It's not about making, you know, short term decisions of fire, sailing, wine, fire, selling wine. Like that's just not, I don't know, there's, there's deeper conversations to be had all the time. Um, but especially right now. And so I, I do think that that's what leads me more in how I make my decisions. I also really believe in transparency and authenticity [00:32:00] mm-hmm um, and that's one of the reasons I'm, I'm pretty outspoken about just certification, cuz in so many in industry now there's just so much greenwash and there's words like sustainable and natural and they don't have definitions and it's not helping the industry at all by not having a common denominator for what that really means. Yeah. And so by being certified, I love having that third party accountability cuz you know, running a business you're priority just can get lost sometimes. And so it keeps me very focused [00:32:30] to make sure we do the right things and everybody knows at least at a minimum what that means. And so between Demeter, we're also a certified B corporation, um, which I think has been great and then being members of 1% for the planet. Like those three things for me, I think in a nutshell kind of demonstrate who we are.
Speaker 1: So the other two certifications. Um, so just for the people at home that don't necessarily know what those are. Um, can [00:33:00] you run through and, and, and explain what that is?
Speaker 2: So the B corporation certification is really like a good business certification. Um, it evaluates three primary areas of how you run your company and it basically once you're certified, the statement that you can make is that you care as much about your suppliers, your employees and your environment as you do your shareholders mm-hmm . So it's kinda that whole concept of businesses, a force for good, it's a rigorous certification, [00:33:30] it's a small business. It took me six months to get prepared, cuz they had to do things like employee handbooks and look at benefits, structures and things that, you know, if you're not a big corporation, you might not have some of that stuff in place. Yeah. Um, there's 3,600 certified B corpse in the world and 19 of them are wineries and half of those are in the Willamette valley of Oregon.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's amazing. So it's definitely in the, the blood or the spirit of the winemakers in that region then [00:34:00] I,
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. The community up there is pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: Um, So I have just five quick questions. Um, there are a little, we can talk about some heavier things, family loss. Um, just five fun questions. We'll just break it up a little bit. Um, so natural wine yay or nay
Speaker 2: Depends on the line.
Speaker 1: that's a great answer. I know some of them are delicious, [00:34:30] some of em smell and taste terrible yeah. Yeah. Um, are you, are you using sulfites in your wines?
Speaker 2: We we'd make very minor additions before bottling, but otherwise not. And it's and we do cross flow filter, um, which some people who make natural wine, you know, they, they don't. Yeah, for sure. And, and, but other than that, we follow all the principles in natural wine making. We just make our wines in a classics tile, you know, we're not doing any experimentation, we're [00:35:00] not making blends that you don't normally see. Like we make them in the classic style.
Speaker 1: Okay. Um, best wine movie.
Speaker 2: Best wine movie. Yeah. Um, oh, American wine story. Can I say that?
Speaker 1: Of course you can say whatever you want,
Speaker 2: Half the stories abouts.
Speaker 1: I know. I, I love, I love sour grapes.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen sour grapes. Um, you know, sideways, you know, was interesting being in the Pinot noir business during [00:35:30] that. I just wish everybody would've heard his second favorite varietal in the world and it would've had the same effect, which is
Speaker 1: Well, I think from our more low lovers, I, I, I have to imagine that put some downward pressure in the market. People really bought into that. Yeah. So maybe, maybe the more low lovers got a little extra value in their buy um, so what, what's your go to section on, on a wine list?
Speaker 2: Um, [00:36:00] well I always check up, see what they have from Oregon. Not that I necessarily buy it, but I always wanna see just because that gives me some sort of an indication, you know, when you, when you do some of these wine certification programs and you get your 200 page book, mm-hmm, maybe a page and a half on that is of the Northwest and possibly California and the other hundred 99 pages are on other regions. Mm-hmm so it tells you a lot about whoever is buying the wine for a list, like how much Northwest wine they have on there. Yeah. Um, I [00:36:30] would say SAU all sauce in Germany. I mean, aromatic whites and lings, I'm most interested in because you can find a deep, uh, um, that's just what I enjoy and you can tend to find, um, just little treasures in there because if they have a good selection of those, you know, that the Somalia is really geeky
Speaker 1: . Yeah. Right. I, I I've learned to never say never and especially with wine, um, I think like certain grapes [00:37:00] get a bad rap or there something that gets stuck to it. And it, everyone suddenly says, I don't like recently nurse sweet. I don't like Chardonnay. They taste like Oak, you know, and those in Pinot Nomar can even fall in that category. But I think recently in, in Chardonnay, grape serve some of those misunderstood, um, wines that, you know, taste take goes back to terroir and, and wine making style that they can be so vastly different. [00:37:30] Um, that when I, yeah,
Speaker 2: And it's it's so, um, you know, every varietals grown everywhere, like we haven't done ourselves any favors necessarily as an industry, but cause there is so much experimentation, but it really to have blanket statements about any varietal, um, really isn't fair. Yeah. Cause there are great examples of every varietal.
Speaker 1: I, I always took take it as a personal challenge when people tell me they don't [00:38:00] like a certain grape to, I don't tell 'em what it is, but I've worked before this. I've worked in restaurants and, and bared and bartended before. Um, and you know, first thing you always ask what they would like to drink and what they, or what they, if they ask for a suggestion, you ask what they like to drink and they'll usually tell you what they don't like to drink. Yeah. Um, so I would always slip in one that they said they don't like, just try and like expand that knowledge and experience with that, with that particular grade, because [00:38:30] you know, it can range. So, so drastically, um, strangest pairing that you think really works.
Speaker 2: You know, I mean the strangest pairing that, like I ever went into a wine dinner thinking there's no way this is gonna work was like the simplest green salad with balsamic vinegarette and Ling. Like I just didn't, I just thought between the acidity and in the vinegar and the acid and our dry wines that they're, and it was a great [00:39:00] pairing. Yeah. Um, our, our dream pairing to do a dinner at the winery, at least for our wine maker is to do a big old steak and an aged reasoning dinner.
Speaker 1: Oh cool.
Speaker 2: That's something we wanna do at some point
Speaker 1: I haven't had too many aged reason. Um, how do they evolve and change?
Speaker 2: You know, they, um, I mean like a lot of other wines, right? They, the acid dissipates quite a bit. Yeah. Um, but [00:39:30] you know, Ling tends to be a high asset. And so, you know, I've had wines back to the mid forties. Lings have had been a amazing, oh, that's cool. And they, they definitely pick up more of those petrol characteristics by and large as they age. And we love that. Not everybody does. Um, but they age really well. I had a, a really reasoning fishy and auto over at my house a couple months ago. And I didn't have a lot of wine here, but I always like to open older Brook bottles for him to see where they're at. [00:40:00] And we, we had a 2004, 2007 and a 2011, which was a really cool vintage in Oregon. And we both agreed that oh, four was the most integrated. Like it was the best of all of them and that the other ones just need time and, you know, time was hard and the market, it, because the market doesn't understand age wines, you know? Yeah. People look at it that you're behind in vintages, if you're releasing things that are older, um, which really isn't the case, but
Speaker 1: [00:40:30] Kinda, yeah. I, I, I find age wines super interesting and fascinating. Um, it's, it's not the easiest to always get, I would say unless you're like in a restaurant who has a really interesting wine list, you know, wine stores, don't typically your average wine store, doesn't typically carry it. Um,
Speaker 2: You gotta call the winery. We all, we're never sold out of anything.
Speaker 1: Okay. That's, that's the insider tip. That's
Speaker 2: The insider tip, call the winery and ask what vintages they have and [00:41:00] they should be able to tell you, oh, oh six was, you know, a warm vintage. So was nine 11 was super cool, like understand your style. And hopefully they taste through 'em on a regular basis. So they know where those wine are at.
Speaker 1: I think one of my favorite pairings, um, I usually like to drink my dessert instead of like eat it. But, um, one of my favorite pairing is having like a big Shrah rah or a Cabernet with like a piece of chocolate cake. Mm-hmm, the combination of like the [00:41:30] two, I think. So I'd love, you mentioned style a few times. Um, and I think that's also one of those things that is misunderstood in wine making, or at least with your average consumer, um, you know, you spoke to you you're more in a classic style. So when you say that, I assume you mean like old world, maybe bringing in some of that French, the French influence versus like California, or, you know, I'm not even, [00:42:00] I'm not the as verse in, in Oregon wines as far as a, a collective or, you know, style between the wine makers. Um, is it more new world or how would you classify that?
Speaker 2: Well, we like to classify as Oregon world
Speaker 1: And you're on your own level.
Speaker 2: We're, we're kind of, we do our own thing cause we're almost in the middle of those two. And, and when I say classic, I mean, you would be able to, um, smell one of our wines and guests of varie. Like there's nothing [00:42:30] masking it. It's not being blended different. There's not a lot of new Oak. Um, so you know, kind of that transparency is really what we shoot for. And I would say in general in Oregon, if you were gonna compare Pinot noir to California, you're gonna have a less ripe style in Oregon. Um, the wines tend to be more high acid to have better acid mm-hmm and be well balanced mm-hmm
Speaker 1:
Speaker 2: [00:43:00] Whereas you definitely get more of that earthiness, you know, this is talking just in generalities when you're talking burgundy, um, and maybe a little bit less fruit and in California you tend to get a lot more ripeness in, you know, kind of a bigger, bold line.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, do you have outside of your own wine? Do you have like a favorite, like a go-to that you just, that you love?
Speaker 2: You know, I, I have a lot, but it tends to be my friends' lines.
Speaker 1: That's even better.
Speaker 2: It's [00:43:30] yeah. Yeah's been good for that. Like, we've all been trading cases with each other.
Speaker 1: That's
Speaker 2: So great. And then we post about each other. It's like, cause we're all tired of drinking our own wine, but I really try to support my friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Um,
Speaker 1: Are they, do you find that they're practicing the same sort of sustainability that you are your peers?
Speaker 2: Um, some are some aren't.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, definitely not to the level where I'm not only winery that I [00:44:00] know of even in the world that is de 1% for the planet and B Corp certified. Yeah. There are a few that are B Corp certified. There are some that are 1% for the planet. Um, and there are some that are de, but not, I don't know anyone that's done all three of those things. Um, but I Def definitely lean towards people with comparable farming practices. Uh mm-hmm And those tend to be smaller family own, [00:44:30] you know, the people doing the work are the people that are still out selling the wine and
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Who do you think is doing the sustainability in the, in the wine world? Uh, really well,
Speaker 2: Um, I mean, in terms of individual producers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: You know, there, well, I could didn't say in the world, I mean, I'm really kind of an Oregon file in terms of my [00:45:00] knowledge with that. I mean, there's so many producers in Europe,
Speaker 1: It's incredible
Speaker 2: That are biodynamic and organic way, higher percentage than there is over here. Yeah. Um, you know, we have a nice little biodynamic community in Oregon where there's producers like Cooper mountain, you know, they probably make, I'm not even sure how many cases they make, but they're a lot bigger than we are. And then there's, you know, people like Josh Bergstrom and brick house and, um, people that carry that flag [00:45:30] well as a small family owned producer too, and Cooper Mountain's family owned, but they just have a higher volume. So it's nice to see for me, higher volume estate vineyards, actually practicing biodynamics
Speaker 1: Uhhuh. you think that, that European, um, respect for Taiwan and land, um, as a, in biodynamic farming, as a result of the history in, you know, the states wine making is relatively new in comparison, you know, [00:46:00] some of these, some of these vineyards have been around for, you know, since the 15 hundreds or before. So I'm curious how much, how much that plays a role in, in, in it.
Speaker 2: You know, I, I would think, I, I, I say that very tied to the culture yeah. Of Europe and the fact that not everything you produced, do you need to capitalize on. Yeah. Um, and that you do it more for the sake of community and family and that meal that you've had. [00:46:30] And in the us, I would say in terms of number of wineries, most of them are small and are like that mm-hmm , but in the commercial world, very overshadowed by the high volume produ you know, there's producers in California, in Washington, like a single producer that makes as much wine as the whole state of Oregon.
Speaker 1: Wow. That's incredible. I didn't
Speaker 2: Realize that. Yeah. So in those larger producers, there's no way they take the, the time and approach, um, to make real pure wines. [00:47:00] They're having to use additions and stuff. I mean, in California, you're allowed to use something called mega purple, which is just disgusting a part of it. It is in, you know, it is in the high volume, cheaper wines for sure.
Speaker 1: Um, what about, yeah, I was, when I learned about the use of egg whites and eggs and wine mm-hmm , um, I was actually working in a, in a wine bar in an Italian wine bar. Um, and someone was a vegan and came in and [00:47:30] asked for a wine and I wasn't actually sure if they could drink it. Um, and I, after doing research found that didn't have egg whites, but it was just one of those moments where, um, something you don't really, you don't really think about. Right. Um,
Speaker 2: Yeah. And egg white finding that's usually used for finding not necessarily a bad thing, but it would determine you, I mean, you know, the whole vegan wine concept is funny anyway. It's like, do you know how many bugs went into your earwigs went into your wine. Right. Like you could only [00:48:00] get so many out of, out of the sorting line. Right. So it's kind of a funny, it's like, well, is that protein? What it, what it really is protein. Um, but yeah, I mean, people do different finding trials. And I wouldn't say that finding trials, um, as long as that doesn't result in you manipulating your minds by adding something else that's not good is a bad thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's, it's more of a clarification and clarifying and focus. Um, we don't find it all, [00:48:30] but a lot of people do this. They'll make great wine.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't think it's necessarily bad either. I just, I think, um, a lot of people, there's always the conception, that's just grapes in the bottle. The, the, you know, there's not, I don't think there's always the clarity of, um, what quite goes into the bottle, the yeast, the different yeast, the different additives, the preservatives. Um, so when I, when I, when I heard about that, I was just kind of, [00:49:00] it was like one of those aha moments, you know? Yeah. Um, you know, for the, for the people at home who don't know what, um, it's called, uh, big purple
Speaker 2: Mega purple
Speaker 1: Purple. Um, can you talk through that? What, what that is,
Speaker 2: You know, I don't even really know, although I know it's just a manufactured chemical that adds coloring.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The red wine primarily. I think its why they use it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, you know, [00:49:30] with, with all your efforts in being sustainable and staying true to the land and an environment, um, does it ever just feel like an uphill battle for you? Um, oh no, that's great.
Speaker 2: Not at all. You know, it, I believe it's the right way to do things and our winemaker and I have kind of had this thing since we started doing this together of if we go down, we're gonna go down the right way. yeah. [00:50:00] Like we, we're never gonna compromise, you know, even like right now, like my team is doing a soft opening for us to reopen our tasting room. And for me it is all about safety. It's like, I don't care how many tables I have to take out of my tasting room. They are gonna be appropriately dispensed. My team needs to feel safe. Our guests need to feel safe and we'll do whatever it takes to have to make that happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's really admirable. Um, I, I hope, you know, as businesses we [00:50:30] hope when they take the same sort of caution and, and
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do too.
Speaker 1: You know, I live in New York city. Um, and you know, we've been kind of decimated by this whole thing and my, I love going out to eat, you know, that's one of the reasons why I stick around out in New York city and deal with high rent, congestion noise is because of the access. I have to amazing restaurants, wine lists that you would never get to experience anywhere else. Um, and [00:51:00] I'm really concerned for like the future of restaurants in New York city. And I'm really concerned that how people are gonna respond when they do open and if they're gonna continue to practice the, the precaution, um, either otherwise I will kind of feel like we just went through all this for nothing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Yeah, no I it's. And then there's layers on that, right? Like restaurants, if they don't own their own space, what's happening with the relationship with their landlords, you know, what's happening to the landlords. If they're not collecting [00:51:30] rent for all these event, like how long can you do that before this whole thing starts to really crumble. And you know, I know a lot of people that have amazing restaurants in New York and like we love all the small mom and pop places.
Speaker 1: Oh they best, yeah.
Speaker 2: I far the best. And those are the ones hurting the most
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm yeah. We've been, you know, we, I live with my girlfriend. We've been really trying to support as much as we can. Um, [00:52:00] but it's tough cause none of them have tried to stay open. Um, I think there, there was a period of time where it was kind of, I'm not sure what to do. Um, you know, we stopped going to grocery stores and started buying produce from the restaurants themselves. A lot of places in New York city started like really pivoting to pro becoming like pantries, grocery stores, wine shops. Um, we been buying meats from the local steakhouse, even buying wines from the wine stores to try, try and help, [00:52:30] um, support them. But
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's important. There's a, um, the independent restaurant coalition that was formed as part of a response to this whole pandemic, you know, their whole position was the airlines employ 650,000 people in this country. The restaurant industry and hospitality employ 11 million people in this country. And there was not one amount of money that was specifically designated [00:53:00] to support that industry.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of fundraising efforts that are starting, um, you know, across the community, like the Psalm wine that I mentioned, that's one of the entities we're giving to. Um, so hopefully, you know, and they're really lobbying hard in DC that if there is another stimulus package that that will help. Um, but if, but if they're able to reopen, but they can only reopen of 50 or 25%. And the other big problem for restaurants is kitchens. If [00:53:30] you have to keep, how do you keep social distancing amongst your cooks? You know, these buildings just weren't built that way, um, to accommodate those things. And, and honestly, I mean, New York will probably be back one of the last markets to come back online, I would think. And it's like, the longer, this thing goes on, the harder it's going to be to recover from it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Especially in New York city where the buildings are very old, um, everyone's cramped in, right. Whether you're in a kitchen or you're sitting in the dining room, right. There's just simply no space. Yeah. Um, [00:54:00] for when the restaurants do open again, where can people go in like New York city, for example, where can people go to find your wines
Speaker 2: Can go to cork buzz?
Speaker 1: Cor buzz is great. I love cork bus.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I did. We're doing some different stuff with Laura. Manc that owns a terroir. Oh, he has our wines. Um,
Speaker 1: Is he carrier Ling? He's a big ING guy, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is. Yeah. He's a big greasing guy. Um, that's why we know each other so [00:54:30] well. Okay. Um, oh my gosh. Why is Monica's place escaping me the name of it? The retailer. I can't, I don't have, I, I don't have a list in front of me.
Speaker 1: That's okay. I know I put you on the spot there. Um, but anyone
Speaker 2: Could always eat mail me and say, where can I get your wines in New York city? Cuz we all know that shipping wine can be very prohibitive.
Speaker 1: it can, it can get expensive. You know, I, from all the different wineries we've visited, we have noticed that [00:55:00] people have brought down wine shipping costs for us, for their customers just to try and increase business again. Yeah. Um, how are you trying to connect with your patrons, um, and connecting, you know, your brand to your customers?
Speaker 2: You know, probably the most significant thing I think I've done is, you know, I was just like every other consumer, the first week that this all happened, getting this, these COVID response email and then getting winery [00:55:30] emails with 25% off, 30% off free shipping. And so I sat down and wrote it my weekly elast that week. And it was titled, this is not your normal COVID response or winery email, because I just thought we're all tired of that. So let's talk about something else. And so weekly for the last, I think nine weeks I've been doing more storytelling, you know, I did one on 1% for the planet. I did one about what does it mean to be a B Corp? I've done one on [00:56:00] the story behind our label of the runaway red. I did one where we had Pascal come on and do a video for us and tell us what life's like in Paris. Mm-hmm um, really just trying to entertain and engage. And I gotta tell you the response has been pretty awesome. People just appreciate, yeah. That they're not opening up a weekly elast that is all about by my wine, by my wine. I, they all know we need support. I mean, if anybody doesn't think any small business needs support right now, [00:56:30] I don't know where they are.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: Um, but that isn't actually been super fun for me because it's kind of been my weekly project of trying to figure out what the next next topic's gonna be, but that, to me, that's, I put my email and my cell phone at the end of it. And I have for the last nine weeks, if you need something, just call me.
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
Speaker 2: Um, and it's led to doing zoom tastings with customers that maybe I had never met with a bunch of their colleagues. Mm-hmm, , um, it's led to all sorts of great stuff for me to really deepen my relationships [00:57:00] with a lot of our customers.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think people, well now are very keen or intelligent and aware of, um, when brands are faking it. Right. Or when things are aren't, um, you know, other tone deaf or, you know, we've had a lot of discussions with our clients about how to, to, to talk to your customers. Cuz I think it's it's right now [00:57:30] there's a, a level of like one fear for just the current economic Condit, uh, condition. And then there's fear of, um, coming off as being, um, you know, insensitive. Right. Um, and that, oh yeah. You know, being able to, to, um, be aware of what's happening. And I think in that there's actually a lot of opportunity. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. To connect with people in, in, in different ways.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I, if I get [00:58:00] an email and it doesn't even acknowledge the crisis, I delete it. Yeah. Like, yeah. I mean, I just don't even it's yeah.
Speaker 1: What do you think is like the number one con consumer, um, expectation from, from either your brand or from just sort of the larger, uh, you know, brand landscape, I guess you could say in, in 2020 it's it's definitely changed a lot over the last, just [00:58:30] four months alone.
Speaker 2: I mean, I, I think that people are really gonna be seeking out authenticity and transparency mm-hmm for brands. And I think they're gonna do that by, you know, asking her to questions, doing more scrutiny before they purchase something, making more informed choices. Mm-hmm um, I mean, I know I am, I, I just, and, and communication is so important and not done very well for so many brands. [00:59:00] Yeah. Uh, you know, we just, with our soft opening that we're doing today, I have three focus groups, my highest frequency customers that live close to the winery over the weekend to lay out the whole entire plant. This is how different Brooks is gonna be when you walk in. Um, and they really appreciated that instead of coming in cold and they're the ones there today giving us a run for our menu to see how it goes, but yeah. And then I'll follow up with them, you know, after tonight and just cuz I just, at the [00:59:30] end of the day, I want people to honestly believe they felt they had a safe and great experience. Mm-hmm
Speaker 1: so, um, we're, we're getting about close to time. Um, where can, where can customers or people out there who are listening one, one buyer wines and support some of the efforts that you were talking about as far as supporting the restaurant community?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, um, at our website, so www dot Brooks, wine.com, [01:00:00] um, and under the shop section, the first thing that pops up is the Psalm collection. And so all of the wines in that collection and we'll be adding a few more, um, you can read through there and see, um, what nonprofits they designated that they want the proceeds to go to mm-hmm and then the rest of the wines in the portfolio obviously were part of one for the planet. So 1% of all of our revenues get donated, um, to a nonprofit of our choice. That's helping the environment. So,
Speaker 1: [01:00:30] All right. Well Jamie, well, thank you so much today. We really appreciate your time, your knowledge expertise. I really found your, um, story to be inspiring, especially your commitment to, um, true to the people that one make your wine, the community that helped pull you through in 2004. Um, and your customers. I think it's, I think it's kind of honestly, and I hate to say this, but I think it's kind of rare to, to find people who are as dedicated. Um, so thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. [01:01:00] Thank you for having me. It's been great. Of
Speaker 3: Course,
Speaker 1: As always. I wanna first thank you. The listener for tuning in today and spending the last hour with us. I wanna thank Janie and the Brooks winery, winery team for your commitment to producing biodynamic wines, your commitment to the planet and for creating, uh, a business that supports your people.