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Exploring the younger years and turning point moments of authentic, outstanding and inspiring people. See the world through the eyes of someone who may have grown up in an entirely different way to you.
Fiona Garrivan on When I Was Young podcast January 2026
Nina: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to When I Was Young, the podcast that explores the younger years of interesting people. This podcast is a chance to slow down and hear about the world through the eyes of someone else who may have grown up in an entirely different way to you. All stories are true and affirmed by my guests.
Nina: I'm your host Nina Fromhold, and today my guest is celebrant and fellow podcast host Fiona Garrivan. On the opening page of Fiona's website is the quote, “Grief is the price we pay for love”, and we are going to explore this theme as we talk about Fiona's early life and how she got into the tender work of supporting families and loved ones through loss.
Nina: Fiona is also a wedding celebrant. [00:01:00] She helps couples to create a celebration of their love that they will always remember. And lastly, Fiona is the creator and host of the Deadly Serious Conversations podcast. In her podcast, Fiona invites guests to talk about how to navigate death, dying, and grief with foresight and kindness.
Nina: As context for today's discussion, Fiona grew up in Northern Ireland in the 1970s and eighties during the time of violent conflict known as The Troubles. The Troubles ran for 30 years, from 1968 to 1998. It was a sectarian war between those who wanted a United Ireland and those who wanted Northern Ireland to remain part of Britain. There were bombings, shootings, and other acts of violence resulting in the death of about three and a half thousand people.
Nina: This war was grounded in centuries old divisions between the Protestant and Catholic communities. But it was [00:02:00] also about identity, belonging and a sense of home. The conflict ended in 1998 with the Good Friday agreement. In our discussion today, Fiona will reference the Troubles because they were a significant part of the backdrop for her childhood.
Nina: So welcome Fiona, and thank you for being my guest today.
Fiona: Thank you, Nina, and thank you so much for having me.
Nina: So how would you describe your town in Northern Ireland and what you remember about the environment of your early world?
Fiona: Yes. So I grew up in a little village, known to the locals as The Moy, but on a map, if you go looking for it, you will only ever find it as Moy.
Fiona: So it's a little village, about 60 kilometres from Belfast, and not far from the border of the Republic of Ireland. Nowadays it's got a population of nearly 2000, but when I was growing up, it [00:03:00] was a lot less, and it's a gorgeous little village. It's got two churches, but most significantly it's split in two by a river.
Fiona: So one side of the river is in county Tarone, and the other side is in county Arma. And this is pretty significant because it causes lots of rivalry in Gaelic football. I grew up in what we refer to as a mixed community, so that means there were both Protestants and Catholics who lived there. That might seem like a bit of a strange thing to say, but it's pretty significant given the history of Northern Ireland.
Fiona: I lived with my parents and my siblings and we grew up in what we call a housing estate. So, it was lots of houses that all looked the same. It was at a time when it was all young families and there were lots of kids to play with, and it was that typical eighties period [00:04:00] where the kids were sent out in the morning and told not to come home til dinner time.
Fiona: But the significant part of that was that you played with kids who weren't necessarily the same religion as you. Which was wonderful. However, we did go to separate schools. So, if you were a brought up Protestant, you went to a Protestant school, and if you're brought up Catholic, you went to a Catholic school.
Fiona: So despite the fact that we all played together, it was sort of ingrained from an early age that we were still different. That was what the village life looked like. And if you Google the Moy, Nina, you will find that it has a pretty colourful history regarding The Troubles. The Moy itself had lots of incidents through The Troubles, so there was always a presence from the British Army.
Fiona: So they were always on patrol or always around, and they were armed forces, so they [00:05:00] had guns and they travelled in army vehicles and they were often on foot as well. So they were on patrol, looking out for snipers and all sorts of things. Yeah. So there was always an awareness that The Troubles was there.
Nina: And the point you made earlier about if you are Protestant, you went to a Protestant school, or Catholic, you went to a Catholic school. Quite different to an Australian system where we have state schools. Mm. So there's no state schools in Ireland, is that?
Fiona: They're actually state schools, but they've still got a religious base to them.
Fiona: So it's a bit different to here in Australia. We might have Catholic school or religious schools, and they're private. We don't have private schools in Ireland. Yeah. So they're all state schools.
Nina: Tell me about your family and where you fit in the pack with your siblings. Mm-hmm.
Fiona: So I am the oldest of [00:06:00] five children.
Fiona: The self-appointed family manager. So I very much seen my role as the big older sister and I'm lucky enough to have one beautiful sister and three brothers and you know, I've been reflecting on this Nina, and they say that siblings are the first people to teach you how to negotiate in conflict resolution.
Fiona: And that was very much the case in my family growing up. And I'm not sure how or when it happened, but nowadays we're all very, very close and I feel very lucky to have such wonderful siblings. And maybe things might be a little bit different if I lived there permanently. But I do go home every year and you know, I would be devastated if I didn't get to go home and see them all.
Fiona: But nowadays, between us, we've got 15 children, my nieces and nephews all love hearing the stories about when we were little and the antics that we would get [00:07:00] up to.
Nina: And what about your mom and dad? What were they like?
Fiona: Yes, so my mum was a stay at home mom and my dad, he owned his own business. He had a haulage company and he drove a lorry and was often away for long periods of time.
Fiona: So they're both incredibly hardworking. But my mum was very much the disciplinarian. You know, have five kids often with my dad being away for days on end. So she was firm, but fair.
Nina: And what happened when you were nine years old and how did this change you?
Fiona: So when I was nine, I developed meningitis and encephalitis, which is an infection of the membranes of both the inside and the outside of the brain.
Fiona: And so as a result, I had to spend an extended period of time in hospital, which was in [00:08:00] Belfast. And in those days, Nina Belfast might as well have been in a different country. It was so far away from my home and my family, nowadays, you know, it only takes an hour to get there, but back then the roads weren't the same.
Fiona: You know, it was so far away from everything that I was familiar with. And in those days, parents didn't stay with children in the hospital. So I had a really long extended period in hospital, far away from my mom and dad and my family. I was incredibly unwell to the point where they weren't sure if I was going to survive or not.
Fiona: And thankfully I did with very few side effects, all things considered. So I lost the ability to walk for a period, and my long-term memory isn't as good as I would like it to be. So I have very few and sketchy memories from my childhood prior to actually getting sick, but also as a result of being sick.
Fiona: I missed a [00:09:00] whole year of primary school, so it was the last year primary school, but all things considered a small price to pay.
Nina: And so you actually had a full recovery from your illness except the memory aspects or were there other things that stayed with you?
Fiona: Yeah, there was a few things. So my eyesight deteriorated after that and I developed epilepsy as a result of it.
Fiona: But for the most part, there's no life changing things that I can't live with.
Nina: Must have been a scary time for you and your family given you were so young?
Fiona: I had a chat with my mum recently about it and it was probably harder for them than it was for me 'cause I was so unwell and being nine, you don't realise your own mortality.
Fiona: So I didn't really know the significance of it.
Nina: Yeah, sure. What do you remember about your time in hospital? What were you doing with your time?
Fiona: [00:10:00] I know that I was too unwell to watch television. My parents brought me in a radio with a cassette player and I loved an Irish singer known as Daniel O'Donnell, who's pretty famous but you know, sings Irish Country music.
Fiona: Probably not what a young person would listen to. And I listen to music for days on end and I still have a love of music and always did. So, yeah, music played a big part of that period of my life.
Nina: That's nice to reflect on. So when you were a kid, what do you remember about getting into trouble?
Fiona: I don't think I had too many naughty moments that stand out.
Fiona: You know, I was that really typical oldest daughter, the good girl always trying to get things right and to keep outta trouble. But I imagine if you ask my mum, she might have a different story to that. My mum was the one who kept us in check, which was [00:11:00] no mean fate with five little kids. And there's only seven years between us, a lot of kids in a short space of time.
Fiona: But my mum had a bit of a warning system and you knew you were in trouble when she looked up at the sacred heart picture that hung in the kitchen because that's where the wooden spoon was kept. So, she looked at the sacred heart picture you would know to run. And you know, I do think I probably pushed the boundaries as all kids do, as they're learning to grow up.
Fiona: But it wasn't anything too traumatic. But there was one story that does stick out, and that was with one of my three then frustrating brothers. The one who's next to me in age was annoying me one day, and my mum was preparing to paint the good room, the living room in the house. She had just got beautiful new carpets.
Fiona: Back in those days, there wasn't lots of money around, so it was a big [00:12:00] deal to be getting the good room done up. And she was out and I can't remember how old I was. I should have asked my brother, but he was annoying me and so I lifted the 15 litre tin of paint with the plan at throwing it at him. So I don't know what I was thinking because as soon as I lifted it, I dropped it on the brand new carpet.
Fiona: So both my brother and I bonded immediately as we knew that there was trouble ahead. That's the thing with siblings, you know, you can be the worst of enemies, but in an instant, the best of friends. We bonded together straight away. So we told her that I was moving the tin of paint with wet hands and I dropped it.
Fiona: And up until this moment we've got away with it. So, sorry, mum.
Nina: Oh my. So in that moment your anxiety went sky [00:13:00] high.
Fiona: Oh, totally. Yes.
Nina: And did you make some attempt at cleaning up the paint?
Fiona: Oh, you, you've never seen two people rush to the floor as quickly and you know, it was a bit pointless because as you can imagine, paint on a carpet.
Fiona: But yeah, we certainly give it a good go, but to no avail.
Nina: What happened on Sundays at your house when you were a child
Fiona: Back in those days Sunday really did have a different feel to it. It was a day when we all had to go to church, so that was a given. Then we'd come home and we would have a special Sunday dinner, which was always a roast and veggies, and it was the only day of the week that we got dessert.
Fiona: So despite the fact that the rest of the meals through the week was still meat in three veg, the thing that made this special was, yeah, a bit more nicer [00:14:00] meat or more vegetables. But it was the fact that we got dessert, which was a real treat. The day really had this sense of almost being endless. You know, you thought Sundays would never come to an end, but it was a lovely way to reset before the next week started.
Fiona: I've got lovely fond memories of Sundays at home.
Nina: So in your house, did it have a sense of a day of rest?
Fiona: Very much so, yeah.
Nina: And how would you spend your time on Sunday? Like there was the roast and the lunch, but then what would you be doing together as a family?
Fiona: Yeah, so often Gaelic football and sport, a bit like AFL here, you know, it was, and still is a big part of the culture there.
Fiona: So in Ireland there 32 counties and each of the counties play each other on a regular basis heading towards the final. So huge periods [00:15:00] of time was dedicated to watching football, and also catching up with family. Sunday was the day that I would go and visit my grandparents and or other relatives would come and visit us in a really subtle way because it wasn't openly, you know, this is what we do.
Fiona: It just sort of organically took on this family day where you visited family or they visited you.
Nina: What about the desserts? Mm. Were there some favourite desserts that were made on Sundays?
Fiona: Well, they were never made, or, well, no, that's not true. They were made, trifle was often made, but the ultimate Nina was Vienetta.
Nina: From the freezer.
Fiona: Yeah, from the freezer, yeah. Yeah. So, as you can imagine, with seven in my family, so five kids and two adults, the Vienetta didn't go very far, but that little piece that you got was just gold. [00:16:00] Beautiful. Or the other ultimate was you got the blocks of ice cream. I don't know if you got them here in Australia, but then you get the wafers and you'd have a wafer on either side of the ice cream, and you had like a sandwich ice cream. Very fancy.
Nina: That is fancy. I think that's only really been happening here for about the last 10 years. I don't remember that from my childhood at all.
Fiona: Oh really? Yeah.
Nina: Yeah. The ice cream sandwich. It's pretty nice thing.
Fiona: Oh, and you would try and get it to last forever.
Nina: You mentioned earlier that you missed that year of school when you were nine. So tell me about your journey with school. How did it go for you after that?
Fiona: Before that, I actually attended a really small primary school. There were only 30 pupils in the whole school, and it's beautiful to see. Now my nieces attend the same school that I went to and it, it's changed a lot in those time.
Fiona: But when I go [00:17:00] back to visit, I get the opportunity to walk through the school and reminisce a little bit. But yes, it was a very small primary school. So there was only two teachers, one teacher who taught the younger years. And one teacher who taught the older years, and we were all in the same classroom together.
Fiona: So if you imagine grade, probably four or five and six all together in the one room with the one teacher year on year. And this particular teacher was the principal of the school, so she was incredibly strict and she didn't hold back on using the rod if she had to. So very different times. But because I missed that whole last year of primary school, I really felt that I started high school behind and there was no real way of making that up.
Fiona: You know, nowadays we probably look at it a bit more holistically and look at what the child [00:18:00] needed. But yeah, the decision was made. I don't even think it was a decision, it was just an assumption that, you know, I would continue on. As a result, you know, I did feel like school was a challenge for me. I was always trying to catch up and didn't feel like I fully understood a lot of things.
Fiona: But I did have some wonderful teachers too, that really stand out, was the vice principal, Mrs. McDonald and my French teacher, Mrs. Kilpatrick, two beautiful women. And remembering that high school, there would've been a thousand students as opposed to my primary school. So it was already very different, but the teachers were incredible and they were kind.
Fiona: But more than that, they really passed on their passion, their passion for learning, and really made school feel there was a possibility of learning new things and seeing past the [00:19:00] challenges that I faced in that.
Nina: You mentioned your French teacher, was French a particular interest for you?
Fiona: It was, and it still is.
Fiona: I do Duolingo every day, and so Mrs. Kilpatrick really nurtured the language. And I think one of the reasons why French became so wonderful for me is because everyone started off at the same spot. So when you start high school, everyone's learning together. So I wasn't behind, I was with the same level as my class, and she was a really passionate, beautiful teacher who spoke with the most gorgeous French accent, and she wore the most beautiful Chanel perfume.
Fiona: So yeah, all of that just fed into the love of France and all things French. I have visited Paris many, many times, including just last year. I took my daughter there and in fact she has been doing French [00:20:00] to VCE. I like to think that Mrs. Kilpatrick's legacy of her passion continues through the generations.
Nina: So at 13, you were gifted a lesson for life. Mm-hmm. Can you talk to me about this one?
Fiona: Yeah. So I had a really close relationship with both of my maternal grandparents, so my granny and my granddad and I would spend my school holidays staying with them. So they lived on a farm in a regional area. There's no shops around, and it was a little bit of paradise for me as a young girl, but when I was 13, I was staying with them on my Halloween holidays.
Fiona: So in October. Early one morning, my granny came into my room to tell me very matter of factly that my granddad was dying. And so this was very, very unexpected. [00:21:00] Overnight, he became unwell and he was 84 and the day before showing no signs of dying. But she in that moment, came to get me and then rang her seven children.
Fiona: She brought me with her and she hopped into bed beside my granddad, and I hopped in the other side. And you know, in hindsight, I think, did I have this moment of not knowing what to do, but I think I was following her lead very much. So we waited for everyone to arrive, and in that moment she started to pray.
Fiona: Often people of that older generation, their faith and prayer was so important to them. But she in a really calm and beautiful way just sat beside him. We both held his hand until everyone arrived and shortly thereafter he took his last breath, [00:22:00] which at 13, to be in the presence of someone as they leave this world was quite profound.
Fiona: I didn't realise it at the time, as you often don't, but my grandmother was an incredible teacher. She taught me many things over my life, but one of them was not to be afraid when someone's dying and all I had to do is be present. I have a lot to thank her for. I have a lot to thank both my grandparents for, but I've certainly got a lot to thank my beautiful grandmother for, and I think about her often.
Fiona: And I didn't realise it at the time, but it really was an initiation process into this work.
Nina: Absolutely. And a really tender and loving experience to share. So that's a lovely gift you were given. Yeah. Can you tell me about the reality of The Troubles for your family? Did your family experience loss and harm or near [00:23:00] misses because this war went for so long?
Fiona: Well, it was a civil war.
Nina: It's not referred to that way so much, is it?
Fiona: Well the name Troubles sort of suggests that it was just a little incident, a bit of trouble, but it really was a civil war.
Nina: So talk to me about your family's experience throughout these times.
Fiona: And I think if you talk to any family, Nina, every family was impacted by it, regardless of the religion or regardless of where they lived, whether they lived in the city or the country.
Fiona: My family have quite a few stories and actually my brother recently initiated a project of trying to collate all the stories and each of our own experiences so that we can document it for our own children.
Nina: How wonderful.
Fiona: I know, and it's been quite a cathartic process. I interviewed my mum recently to hear her [00:24:00] stories and you know, we were all brought up here in particularly my parents' stories, just reflecting on how you really could have been impacted by being caught up at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Fiona: Like you didn't have to be involved in paramilitary groups or you didn't have to have any association with any alliances or anything like that. It was so random. You could just be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like for example, someone I went to school with was driving past a police station with her grandfather when a bomb went off, killing them both.
Fiona: So two innocent people just caught up in it. But for my family, we've got lots of stories. My mum's got a few stories of having a near miss of walking past a bank and a bomb going off when she was a young girl on a bus. And it was hijacked [00:25:00] by paramilitaries. So, remembering that civil servant type roles.
Fiona: So bus drivers and um, anything that was government related were always a target. So yeah, she was on a bus and the bus was hijacked. My dad, who I mentioned earlier, had his own haulage company. He was attempted to be hijacked many times because it was a large vehicle and they could use it for barricades and to put on fire crossroads and things.
Fiona: And myself, you know, I've got lots of stories, but one of them that does stand out is I was maybe 18 or 19 and I was driving home from Dublin after watching the Bon Jovi concert. Please don't judge me. I was driving home and it was in July. And July is notorious in Northern Ireland for being a very volatile period because we've got what's known as marching [00:26:00] season.
Fiona: So that's when the Protestant community all come together to march. And it can be, yeah, as I mentioned, very volatile. But on that drive home, a masked man with a gun stepped out to try and hijack me. I don't know if it was maybe naive, but I put the foot to the floor and sped off and you know, he could have shot the car. He could have done many things, but he didn't.
Nina: Wow. So talk me through that moment a little bit more, because that would've been one of those moments of intensity in your life. What do you remember thinking, feeling in that second, because you made decisions in a probably three second window.
Fiona: I don't even think it was three seconds. I think it was less than a second. And I don't know why. I think it was because I didn't wanna lose the car. I can't explain it. It was such a reaction. But I do remember the adrenaline [00:27:00] in my body afterwards. And I came home and my granny was at home, and her trying to get me a cup of tea, 'cause a cup of tea, solves a multitude of problems including an attempted hijack.
Nina: Well, it does go a long way.
Fiona: But I remember trying to hold the cup and my hands shaking. And it's funny when I drive that way, I can see exactly the point in the road where that happened. And now when I'm back in Ireland and I am on that road, it takes me back there immediately.
Nina: Yeah, I bet it does. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's not the kind of thing you'd forget.
Fiona: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah.
Nina: Wow.
Fiona: The other thing about The Troubles from a family perspective. The Troubles was so much more than just bombings and shootings. It meant that if you were a certain religion, that you were excluded from certain jobs. So your religion [00:28:00] determined what opportunities were available to you.
Fiona: For example, like Catholics couldn't work for the civil service and your surname, the school that you went to, your accent, you know, even though we all live in the same area, or accents are often subtly different, and that could be enough to signal what your background was and determine then whether you were hired for a job.
Fiona: Some workplaces were seen as Protestant jobs and some were seen as Catholic jobs. And crossing those invisible lines could be really dangerous for you as well. Like you might really want to work for the civil service. But as a Catholic, the chances of being employed were really low. But also it was severely frowned upon that you would take a role like that, so you would never work for the police, or you would never drive a bus or work for the postal service.
Fiona: So it was so [00:29:00] much more than just shootings and bombings.
Nina: Absolutely. That deeply embedded crossover between religion and the state as well. So as a young person coming up in the world, what did that then mean for how you looked at the world and your future opportunities?
Fiona: You know, I'm trying not to be biased. I grew up Catholic, so I have one experience and I'm sure people who are Protestant have a different experience. But for me as a Catholic, I certainly got the sense that there were things I couldn't do in this world that that was just not for me because it wasn't available. And it narrowed your view of the world and what was possible.
Nina: Absolutely. And the other side of your upbringing as well was growing up through the Catholic convent school system and being a woman and being shown what that was to be in the world. What did you see for you in [00:30:00] those two aspects as well?
Fiona: Going to a Catholic convent school, the first thing that I'd say is the nuns and the teachers themselves were absolutely wonderful women.
Fiona: You know, they were kind and dedicated and they genuinely cared about us. So I have only positive experiences of going to a convent school. I know a lot of people don't, but I do. Yeah. And I don't look back on my high school days with any sort of bad feelings towards them. But there was definitely this undercurrent to the education that we were given.
Fiona: We weren't really encouraged to push ourselves or to imagine big or bold futures or to, you know, have any sort of sense of taking up a space in the world. And again, I don't know how much of that is influenced by The Troubles, and what was available or not available to us. The messaging certainly wasn't explicit, but no one ever said [00:31:00] “You can't do this”.
Fiona: But there was definitely a certain lane for women and the expectation was that you stayed in that lane. You know, it was about being good and being compliant and helpful and you know, potentially eventually becoming a wife and a mother and doing acceptable caring roles. That was very much the sense at school.
Fiona: Any sort of ambition wasn't really nurtured in any way, and religion played such a big part of it as well. And that expectation of women. The church had such a hold over Ireland. Yeah, so between the troubles and religion, you just got a sense of which jobs were for you and which ones weren't, and it filtered into everyday life.
Fiona: And you really did learn early not to expect too much and not to rock the boat and not [00:32:00] to imagine what the world looked like beyond certainly where I lived.
Nina: So do you remember feeling accepting of that, or do you remember feeling a sense of rebellion against that feeling?
Fiona: No, I certainly, it was an acceptance.
Fiona: Yeah, A deep knowing that the women before me, this is what they'd done. Certainly at that age, I didn't rebel against it at all.
Nina: After high school, you moved to Dublin to go to Griffith University? Yes. Tell me about that time.
Fiona: Yeah, so I was 18 and I moved a hundred mile away to Dublin, and for those who don't know, Dublin is in the Republic of Ireland and I grew up in Northern Ireland and Dublin might as well have been a different country because they weren't enmeshed in that world where there was The Troubles. There was [00:33:00] no army on the street, no car bombs, no getting arrested for being the wrong religion, and no being aware of rubbish bins where there was potentially a bomb to go off or looking underneath cars to see if there was any wires and all of that.
Fiona: Suddenly the world looked really different and I couldn't believe that this world existed. It's like when you're growing up in it, you don't recognise that it's not normal. So suddenly there was a whole new world opened up to me. And one of the things that I remember the most was when I lived at home in Northern Ireland.
Fiona: I slept every night with the light on. I shared a room with my sister and, and we often reminisce how I drove her crazy, but I, I slept with the light on because I wanted to see them if they were coming for me. Suddenly in Dublin, I didn't have to [00:34:00] sleep with the light on.
Nina: And tell me about that transition, because you've talked about walking around rubbish bins, checking underneath cars. How long did it take you to transition from what you'd done your whole life once you'd moved to Dublin? How long did it take you to let go of those habits of worry?
Fiona: So I can't remember Nina, but I do get the sense that it was fairly immediate 'cause everything just felt different. When I recognised that I was no longer carrying all of that, it was very freeing.
Nina: And so you are out of home and you are living as an independent young woman in a city. Yes. Tell me a bit more about what you were doing with your time, what you were starting to experience, that sense of freedom. Take me there.
Fiona: Yeah, so it was a wonderful period as you can imagine, [00:35:00] as it is and should be for most young people.
Fiona: So I lived in a shared house with a group of girlfriends who I went to Uni with. You know, obviously the education system was entirely different to my primary school and my secondary school. And then suddenly I was in a world where if I didn't go to the class, you know, the only one who was responsible for that was me.
Fiona: Yeah. So there was that new sense of freedom, but also with the group of girls I lived with, we bonded over cooking together and eating together and sitting around the table in the evening talking about our days. Yeah, it was a wonderful time where we had no parent supervision and no expectations of having to go to church, which was quite unknown territory.
Fiona: Yeah. It was learning to adult. As a young 18-year-old, I've got a 17-year-old now, and it blows my mind this was what I [00:36:00] was doing in a new city and learning to live in a completely new way.
Nina: And so no one required you to go to church?
Fiona: No.
Nina: Did you go?
Fiona: No.
Nina: And what about your social life? Where were you spending your time?
Fiona: Yeah, so again, that was all very new and different. So of course there was all the Uni events and going out to discos and pubs and there was boys, which was a huge contrast to, you know, an all-girls convent school. It was all completely new and full of possibility and spontaneity and all the, the wonderful, messy, joyful parts of being a young adult.
Nina: And so, do you remember that time with a lot of excitement or was there some aspects of that that were quite intimidating for you?
Fiona: Oh definitely, being a good girl, I didn't wanna break too many rules and [00:37:00] so yeah, there was almost having to get permission from myself to do things and it's unlearning all of those things that are so inducted in your everyday life, you know?
Fiona: It wasn't as freeing. That freedom still came at a cost because you weigh up, oh, am I doing the right thing? All of those young person challenges.
Nina: Yeah. Beautiful. At 19, you had your first experience of love. Yes. But at 24, you made a big, bold decision. What was calling you at 19?
Fiona: I had a boyfriend and he came from the same area that I grew up in. The area that I live in, everyone knows everyone and there's that real small community feel to it. We knew each other's family. He came from a local farm and we had a wonderful time for quite a few years. [00:38:00] As I mentioned, I went to Uni in Dublin. Once we started a relationship, I would often come home on the weekends when we would see each other.
Fiona: But a few years into Uni life, I met a wonderful girl. Her name is Helen, and she was Australian living and working in Dublin. And Helen, who is subsequently now a wonderful friend. Suddenly she was talking about a world that I had no idea even existed. She was talking about St Kilda and Melbourne, and it just all sounded really exotic.
Fiona: And you know, there were trams and there were all sorts of things. And it opened up that thinking in my mind that there was a world beyond the Moy and beyond Northern Ireland, and beyond Dublin and beyond Ireland. Like my world was really small and slowly by slowly it was opening [00:39:00] up. And then Helen introduced me to the idea that you could go and live in another country, which was mind blowing.
Fiona: So I really had that crossroads moment where I was looking during the barrel of life with my then boyfriend, looking at a future probably on a farm. Close to where I grew up, or really take that leap of faith and go on an adventure. And obviously I took the adventure and I came to Australia and I spent a wonderful year traveling and working around Australia.
Nina: Brilliant. And that leap of faith, did you sleep the night before you got on that plane?
Fiona: No, actually I have a very traumatic memories of it. I remember, as I mentioned, I grew up in a small community and I went to the local pharmacist and I was so anxious and just really emotional about getting [00:40:00] on that flight the next day and I wouldn't let my parents come to the airport.
Fiona: So two really good girlfriends came with me to the airport. And I remember going to the pharmacy the day before, I didn't have the language for it, but I wanted Valium and he gave me rescue remedy, which didn't cut the mustard at all. That morning I had to get up really, really early to get to the airport, and my two lovely girlfriends were there.
Fiona: And as the line got closer to the top of the security, it just, that feeling of, oh my gosh. Because I was by myself and I didn't know how I was gonna walk through those doors. So it didn't go, you know, as easy as it might sound, it was very traumatic and very difficult. And I'd never been on a plane that distance before.
Fiona: And I thought when I got on in Dublin, I was actually gonna get off in Melbourne. That's how naive I [00:41:00] was. I didn't realise that the flight stopped in Kuala Lompa and that I had to change airplanes. And I came to Australia in November, 2001, which was only two months after September 11. So when the plane arrived in Kuala Lompa, like I almost collapsed to the floor because I had no idea of what was happening, and I didn't know that that was normal.
Nina: That first time of experiencing that intense security experience. When you get off in foreign countries and even in your own, yes, it's all a bit unfamiliar and a bit intimidating. Okay, so it took a lot to get on the plane and then to transfer. What was that first week like when you did arrive in Melbourne?
Fiona: I have really fond memories. I was really lucky in that my friend Helen was here. I tell my kids now, when you go traveling, if you just [00:42:00] know one person, it's enough. You don't need to know lots of people. So I was really beautifully supported by Helen. She picked me up at the airport and I remember it was almost like a movie. We were driving over the Bolte Bridge and suddenly on my left hand side are these massive skyrise buildings, and I had never seen anything like that before.
Fiona: Like we don't have them in Ireland. That realisation, oh my gosh, this is my home for the next year, and it just feels so different. So I moved into a flat with her and her really good friend Carol, who subsequently became, and still are two significant and important women in my life. But we had an apartment on the Esplanade in St Kilda.
Fiona: So you can imagine Nina, this young woman who was so green around the gills arriving to living on the [00:43:00] beach in St Kilda in Melbourne. It just was mind blowing. And Helen graciously took a week off work and we explored and yeah, I felt really looked after and not as alone as I could have been.
Nina: And what did you notice that was different to home in Ireland? What else was it about the city?
Fiona: Uh, everything was different. You know, the food was different, the tea bags. I remember distinctly, the tea bags in Australia have a little string on them, which we didn't have. And as a big tea drinker, I was like, what do you do with that? How do you stir it without getting wrapped around the spoon?
Fiona: But even, you know, I grew up with very traditional food of meat and three veg, and Helen, who was Greek, introduced me to strange things like avocado and pumpkin. Everything just felt so different, but [00:44:00] so exciting to be able to try all of these things. I arrived in November, so it was starting to warm up and being able to walk across the road to the beach. So everything just felt so unfamiliar, but very exciting.
Nina: How beautiful. Now it was around this time that she met someone very special. You wanna share that story?
Fiona: Yes. So Helen, Carol and I, we were having a wonderful time being young women and we were out socialising all the time. And one particular evening, Helen and I went to Port Melbourne to an Irish bar.
Fiona: As a young Irish person here, that was almost a rite of passage. And in that process, I met a young Australian man and he heard my accent. He heard Helen and I talking and he struck up a conversation [00:45:00] and yeah, that was a wonderful evening, a very serendipitous evening because he went on to be my husband. That first night we shared cheeky kiss as you do, and he told me he was the son of Irish immigrants, so they had moved out in the seventies.
Fiona: He was born here, one of five children. And yeah, there were so many things that sort of overlapped and I remember thinking I could marry him one day, and here we are. So this is my 25th year here.
Fiona: So we've been together almost 25 years and been married for 19 of those. So yeah, marvels and we have two beautiful children.
Nina: So you had that moment of insight right on that first night?
Fiona: Yes. I mean, you don't know how much of it is conscious or unconscious [00:46:00] or what it is, but I certainly had this moment of thinking. Yeah, he's a bit of, all right,
Nina: So you had your first child at 31, and you're quite a reflective person. So talk to me about what you and your husband decided to do differently to your own parents?
Fiona: Patrick and I, because we come from similar backgrounds, even though he was brought up here, his parents who have since passed away, they were a beautiful Irish couple.
Fiona: Um, so we grew up with similar values and really strong traditions and that deep sense of loyalty to family and belonging, to close knit communities. They were expats living here and came here at a very difficult time. So often immigrant families socialised together. So even though they didn't have necessarily family here, they certainly kept those strong ties.
Fiona: [00:47:00] They both came from large families in Ireland. When we were having children, certainly one of the biggest things that we valued was that really strong sense of belonging. So we wanted our child or children to grow up knowing where they're from and feeling proud of who they are and where they come from, but also really feeling connected to extended family who don't live here can be very isolating when you live in a different country and, and not really understanding who you are in the sense of the world when your family doesn't live with you.
Fiona: You know, that was important that we took the effort and care over the years to nurture those relationships with family, which we have done. That has cost a fortune, but you know, it's a small price to pay. Both of our families come from really strong work ethics. So, you know, worked incredibly hard, but they're also [00:48:00] incredibly resilient.
Fiona: They just get on with things that really strong sense of just get on with things and do what needs to be done. So those are some of the things that we really wanted to pass on. But at the same time, there were things that we were conscious of that we perhaps might want to approach a little bit differently.
Fiona: So our parents grew up in an era where things were different. There were very clear roles about what life was meant to look like if you were a certain gender. So, you know, women had that very clear role of what was expected of them. And obviously religion for both of our parents played a big part. And still for my parents, continues to play a big part in their life.
Fiona: Their faith really shaped our childhoods, and there are aspects of faith and religion that are so, so important, like that sense of right and wrong and just the [00:49:00] values, the underlying values of Catholicism. But we both went into parenthood acknowledging that our children may want to question that, because we never questioned it.
Fiona: It was just assumed that's what you've done. And certainly we were intentional about making sure that they understood all of those important values of kindness and community and looking after people and all of that, but that they could make those decisions around faith themselves.
Nina: And that would've been a really big shift for you both given your upbringings and the values of your parents.
Fiona: Yeah. You know, it's funny because. Patrick's parents have both passed away, but they were both deeply, deeply religious people, and my parents had tremendous faith. You know, if you ask my mum about that period of my life when I was sick, she will tell you. The reason I got through that was prayer. [00:50:00] Deep rooted belief.
Fiona: So their faith is really important. Obviously when we were younger it was expected and you didn't question going to church. But as we got older, they did sort of accept that our lives didn't evolve around going to church on a Sunday.
Nina: I guess that would've been a necessary shift. Watching your world expand so significantly. Outside of the county where you had grown up and the environment and the community.
Fiona: Yes.
Nina: Whilst you were on maternity leave, you started to think about changing your career. What were you interested in and why?
Fiona: Yeah, I don't know if I consciously thought about it, but I had a sliding doors moment. So my beautiful friend Carol, who I lived with in those early days, I had made a comment to her a number of years earlier, so prior to being on maternity [00:51:00] leave.
Fiona: So obviously coming from Ireland, I had gone to lots of religious weddings in Ireland and coming to Australia, I was in that period of my life where I was attending lots of weddings, and most of them were non-religious. They were held by celebrants. And so I found that role just fascinating. I was like, wow, they can marry people.
Fiona: I was intrigued by the logistics of all of that. So I had made a flippant comment to Carol a number of years earlier that when I retire, that I would love to be a wedding celebrant. The reason why I said that was because at that time, so this is nearly 16 years ago, most of the people who were doing wedding celebrancy were retired.
Fiona: So I assumed wrongly that you had to be retired to do it, that you were some sort of justice of the peace or whatever. And Carol happened to be at a [00:52:00] wedding when I was on maternity leave, and it was a younger celebrant, and she rang me and she said, you know that you don't actually have to be retired to do that job.
Fiona: And so that planted a seed in my head and I'm like, oh, really? So I looked into it and there was a course coming up and I was on mat leave and I thought, oh, well now it's a great opportunity to do that and I'll have that in my back pocket for when I retire. Can I also add, I was so far away from retirement at that stage.
Fiona: I don't know why this was a focus, but it was. So I thought, oh, I'll do that. And then one day down the track I might look into practicing it. And so that's what happened. My daughter Maive was quite young and I'd done the course and that was that.
Nina: So how did you go from doing the course to that first job?
Fiona: I put it on the back burner, and it was through a friend of a [00:53:00] friend who needed a celebrant and they said, oh, would you like to do it? And I said, ah, that would be wonderful. So I'd done my first wedding and I thought, oh, well, you know, I'll just do whatever comes my way until such times that I'm doing it as a retired person.
Fiona: And suddenly it started to snowball. One wedding led to another, led to another, and it took a couple of years for that to establish itself. But organically, celebrancy became so busy that I came to that crossroads where I had to make a decision about leaving my part-time job. And that was back in 2014.
Fiona: And so celebrancy has been my full-time job since then. And it's funny, you have all of these plans, but then the universe offers you things that you don't realise that you need or want to do or plan to do.
Nina: So heading into that vein, you are not only a celebrant for weddings, you're now a celebrant for [00:54:00] funerals as well.
Fiona: That's right.
Nina: And that takes a special kind of person. Tell me about your first funeral, how you got that opportunity and, and how you felt about what you could bring to this work.
Fiona: You know, people often say it takes a special type of person, Nina and I don't necessarily agree. I think just takes someone who's willing to be in that space.
Fiona: I don't have anything more than anyone else has. I had thought I only ever want to do weddings. I naively thought that you had to be a particular type of person and have a particular type of life experience to be able to do funerals. And I didn't quite see myself fitting into that. Even though I had done the training for funerals as part of my celebrancy training, I wasn't really interested.
Fiona: And in hindsight, I reflect back and think why? But I was doing a wedding one day. [00:55:00] Afterwards, this gentleman came up to introduce himself and have a bit of a chat. And unbeknownst to me while we were chatting, he was actually a funeral director. So he then told me that, and he asked me if the opportunity came along that he thought was the right family for me, could he give me a call?
Fiona: And so I thought it was maybe a flippant comment. So I said, yeah, sure, no problem. Assuming I would never hear from him again. And a week later I received a phone call asking me if I was available for a funeral for a family that he thought I would suit. And it turned out to be a funeral for a little baby.
Fiona: Who was 28 weeks gestation. He wanted me to support her beautiful mum and dad. So I had that again, crossroads moment of which there were many in my life. Do I say yes or do I say no? And rightly or wrongly, I said [00:56:00] yes. On the way to meet that family, Nina, I really questioned what I could bring to make this in any way better or what I could possibly say or do.
Fiona: And I almost felt sick driving to meet that family. But once they opened the door and I stepped through the threshold of their home, I felt at home. I felt a real sense of peace that all I had to do was be present and to listen. You know, I can't fix anybody, and that's something that I've had to learn.
Fiona: But what I can offer is for them to feel seen and supported and that there's a group of people around them helping them navigate this really, really tender time.
Nina: And so it all started there.
Fiona: It did, yes.
Nina: And now you are a podcast host of Deadly Serious [00:57:00] Conversations, and you've spent a lot of time thinking about death, dying, and what we leave behind. If you had it all your way, how would you die?
Fiona: Yeah. This is a really tough question because I know from working in the industry and in this space that we actually have very little control over how and when we die. But if I did get a choice. It would be at the end of a very long and really full and rich life, and that it's been a life with beautiful relationships and that it's been a life with meaning, and that I've been able to contribute something to the world and I'd wanted to be somewhere where I felt safe.
Fiona: So that doesn't necessarily mean at home, you know, for me, being safe is with the people I love around me and feeling deeply loved and knowing [00:58:00] that in some really small way, that I made a difference in the lives of the people who are with me. Beyond that, I don't want to dictate how I'm grieved or celebrated.
Fiona: I want the people who love me to do whatever feels right for them. I don't have too many expectations. Yeah. But if that happens to be the situation, I would feel incredibly blessed. Absolutely.
Nina: What led you to step into the podcast world and to choose death, dying, and grief as your subject?
Fiona: It's a bit bizarre to most people, isn't it? You know, growing up in Ireland, apart from the deaths that we had, through The Troubles, the Irish actually have a really beautiful, rich culture around death and dying. Where I'm from in Northern Ireland, if someone dies, they are waked in [00:59:00] their home in an open coffin or in their bed three days before the funeral.
Fiona: And so for those three days, the community comes together, they see the person who's dead, but also by coming, they show their support to the people who are grieving. So it's very communal. It's very natural. To people outside of Ireland, it seems really bizarre and unnatural, but in Ireland it's a beautiful natural way for people to come together, to grieve together, to show their support, and to say goodbye.
Fiona: After working as a funeral celebrant in Australia for many years it became obvious very quickly how different the approach to death was. And you know, as a culture here, we spend a lot of time avoiding talking about it and as a result, people don't know what to do. They don't know who to ask or where to go to for help or where to [01:00:00] start, what they're facing when potentially someone they love is dying.
Fiona: There is none of that support, that beautiful support that I seen and witnessed in Ireland time and time again. You know, I was brought to wakes from, I was very young to help in the kitchen because there's always food at wake. The sandwiches are amazing, and so I've seen time and time again what community brings in that event.
Fiona: That's when I realised that we need an accessible way for people to have these open and honest conversations. The podcast was really born from the idea of having a library of episodes so that there are different topics that people can turn to for something that might relate to them. So there's a broad spectrum of different topics in there, and there'll be topics that relate to some people and topics that don't, but at least it's conversations.
Fiona: [01:01:00] It's learning from other people's experience, whether that's professionals or just people who are bereaved and grieving. My only hope was that someone would learn something and it would make this time a little bit gentler for them and that they would feel less alone.
Nina: Getting back to the personal, for you, is there a smell that makes you think of home and, and as part of that question, is home in your heart still island or is home Melbourne now?
Fiona: Yeah, and this is something that I have actually thought about a lot over the years. Is home where you return to or is home where you start from home? For me, really home is the place where you are bound to because of the people where you feel a sense of belonging. And I really do believe I belong in two places in this world.
Fiona: When I'm in [01:02:00] Ireland, I think of home as Australia, and when I'm in Australia, I think of home is in Ireland. But I feel at home in both places. Ireland has a really distinct smell for me. Like, you know, there's nothing quite like the lowering of a plane coming into Dublin airport. When you come over the Irish Sea, Dublin is just on the coastline, so you're coming over the water and suddenly you get the fresh glimpse of the green fields.
Fiona: There is something in my soul that just feels like I've come home. Ireland is one of those places that's constantly wet. It's always raining, and so the smell of Ireland is that beautiful, distinctive smell of wet grass and damp earth. It's a very almost clean smell. It feels fresh. And [01:03:00] so home for me in Australia and the smell that I associate with Australia, it's almost a smell that transports me back to that early time in my life when I first arrive, and it's a smell of mangoes.
Fiona: So I never had tasted a mango as I hadn't tasted pumpkin or avocado or any of those things. The shape of the fruit, and it's so visceral, the smell, but when you open it and then you taste it, that's a whole different experience. So when I think of the smell of Australia, and it helps, you know, because we're in summer here and I'm eating lots of mangoes at this time, it really transports me to that period of arriving here and arriving home.
Nina: And the decadence and the freshness of mango I, I can feel that it's really visceral. Yeah. Beautiful. [01:04:00] You grew up immersed in Catholicism, and you've talked a little bit about having gone on a journey with this. What does faith mean to you in your heart now?
Fiona: There's a lot of good parts of Catholicism that I still value. It's steeped in beautiful, rich rituals and community and how to treat others, and even though I don't practice religion anymore, I really hope that through being human, whether that's through my work or through my family or my relationships, that I still have those values of being compassionate and kind and integrity and that sense of responsibility to others.
Fiona: They are still very much the fabric of who I am and where I've come from. And so faith isn't about following rules and [01:05:00] living according to what other people tell you, you should or shouldn't be doing. It's that inner knowing right from wrong.
Nina: When you reflect on your life, what are the moments that really stand out as having given you those strongest feelings of connection?
Fiona: There's been lots of crossroads in my life, taking one path and potentially going another, and I think the moments of connection is those moments of belonging. So no matter what decisions I've made, I still feel like I belong somewhere to something. So whether that's family or relationships or my job or whatever it is, it's belonging to something.
Fiona: And you know, it's even simple things, Nina, like belonging to a book club and belonging to a running club. Those are the things in my life that give me the connections with the [01:06:00] people that I love.
Nina: Well, thank you Fiona, for being my guest today and sharing your story with me. Talking with you about death and dying has been really beautiful today.
Nina: So I love your podcast, Deadly Serious Conversations, and I've listened to a number of episodes now and like you suggested, followed the things that seemed relevant or interesting to my world. So if anyone would like to learn more about your celebrant services or your podcast, where can they find you?
Fiona: Yes, you can find Deadly Series Conversations anywhere where you listen to podcasts. So all of the episodes are there. They're also available on my funeral website, so I have two websites, one for my funeral work, which is Fiona, the Funeral Celebrant, and the other is for my wedding work. And that's Fiona Garrivan Celebrant.
Fiona: Under the same names I have Instagram pages [01:07:00] where you can see some of the work that I do.
Nina: You have been listening to When I Was Young, an exploration of the formative years of authentic, outstanding, and inspiring humans. I'm your host, Nina Fromhold, and this is a Memory Lane Life Stories production proudly made in Naarm, Melbourne, Victoria on the traditional lands of the Wurundjeri people. We have new episodes and guests mostly each month, so please follow the show to hear more of the series. Thank you for listening.