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This week, Jay chats with Nehal Tenany and Annika Sharma of That Desi Spark podcast!
Discussing issues of Mental Health, Substance Misuse and Recovery, and Drug Use & Policy with host Jay Shifman, Speaker, Storyteller, and Advocate.
Each week Jay chats with interesting guests as they seek to destroy stigma and advocate for honest, educational conversations that motivate positive change.
You can learn more at https://jay.campsite.bio/.
Choose Your Struggle has been streamed in over thirty-five countries and is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever else you get your podcasts.
Leave a review! https://ReviewThisPodcast.com/Choose-Your-Struggle
*** Transcripts are not edited for clarity.
You are listening to the choose your struggle podcast, the member of the shameless podcast network.
Welcome to the choose your struggle podcast. I'm your host, Jay Schiffman, on this show, I interview people with lived and learned experiences and subjects of mental health, substance misuse, and recovery and drug use. And. But occasionally we talk about other topics as well on this week's show, I interview NAL and Anika of that Desie spark podcast, but first kid mental let's go things ain't no it's going go our way.
You can always been with you just, and some battles will be yesterday. Wait. When you begin choose just,
and don't worry about what they say. Cause you can always win, win. You choose just, and you can bounce back yesterday. Come on in. Listen. Torun just
choose just, just we choose a struggle. Hello and welcome to another episode of the choose your struggle podcast. It's so great to be back with you all. My voice is a little, a little raspy. I, I just got off of an hour shoot almost hour and a half. Wow. Hour and a half interview. Uh, that was a long one with the guys at the extreme, common sense podcast.
Uh, they were wonderful. We talked, uh, drug use drug policy. I mean, it was fantastic, uh, but it was a long one um, and I'll definitely everyone should, should check them out when it drops. I'll promoted all over my social media, that kind of thing. Before we get into this week show a couple of quick things.
Thank you to everybody who keeps reaching out about made it. Yes, people still are. I love it. Please keep it up. Um, please keep listening. If you've not listened, go check it out. If you've not shared it, please do so. Um, it really makes a difference, uh, that extreme, common sense actually, uh, they found me from the yes.
Article, uh, which I'm, I'm pitching things all over right now. If you are looking for someone to write about drug policy, drug, use that kind of thing. I am your guy. Um, but you know, sharing really makes a difference. They, somebody was like, Hey, this person would be good for your show. You should check them out.
And they invited me on the show. So, uh, you know, please share this work. Uh, it would mean a lot to. Uh, reviews, keep coming in, have made it of this show too. You heard me talk about the ratings disappearing last week, please keep rating and reviewing. I love that. I see it. I appreciate it. Speaking of the yes.
Magazine, um, I, yes, was very kind. They sent me, uh, some, some copies, so I'm gonna give a couple away. Uh, the first, the first giveaway is gonna be anybody who I'm gonna keep saying this. You, you gotta do. Uses the pod box link in my show notes. Not only are you getting a swag pack, if you're you're, um, if your comment get makes it on the air, but the first person who hears it this week will get a copy of the yes.
Magazine, uh, that has my article in it, uh, sent to them. So, um, definitely, definitely. Uh, try that out. Um, it it's for anyone. So go to pot, inbox.com/choose your struggle or something like that. It's in the show notes. Um, and I will definitely link it multiple times in the show notes. So check that out and use it and you'll get a copy of the magazine.
Uh, real quick on this, um, there is a pretty high likelihood that I will be off next week. Uh, if it's not next week, I will be off the week after, but I, I would say it's, it's about 90% that it'll be next week. Um, a, a member of, uh, Lauren's family is in their final days. Uh, of, with a battle with a health issue, um, that they are unfortunately going to lose their life to.
So, uh, I will be obviously, uh, doing, doing that, uh, being, being the good partner to her over the next week. Um, and, and again, we're, we're kind of waiting and seeing right now, but the funeral will most likely be next week. Um, If you hear me next week, if I'm like, Hey guys, it's me. uh, that means that it'll be that, that the funeral's the week after, and then you won't get a, a, a, a show the week after, but most likely it's not gonna be next week.
So, um, if you don't hear me, that's why. All right. So this week's show, um, it's very special. The, the there's there's multiple guests. Uh, I say this on the, on the , uh, beginning of the interview, but, you know, I don't do multiple guests that often. Uh, but these two were incredible. Uh, I say this on the interview as well, but it's, it, it, the, this show was recommended to me by one of y'all.
I cannot remember who it was. I'm sorry. Um, but whoever it was, please reach out and remind me, uh, in fact, leave it on the podin box. Be like, yeah, idiot. It was me. Um, that would be, that would be very funny. I'll play it on the next. It is the host of the Desi spark Desi spark. Uh, they are first, the first host is Anika Sharma.
Uh, she, she lives in New York. Uh, she works as a health communications manager by day, but is also a multi-time published writer and a podcaster, her book, the Chi maala club, a south Asian romcom. It, it sold very well. You should definitely check it out. And her first. Novel love Chi and the other four letter words was named in Amazon editor's pick, and she has also been a writer to watch by apple.
So definitely check out her work, uh, link that in the show notes. And the other host is NAL, Tani, and NAL is a travel and lifestyle blogger. She's a podcaster. Uh, and a content marketing manager in Silicon valley. She she's a, I, I follow her stuff. She's a really creative, uh, content person. Uh, I would definitely recommend you.
You check her stuff out again. It'll be in the show notes. She's worked with some really incredible brands that you all know. Including misguided and Bondi boast, uh, and, and really overall, I think the message to take away from this is that they're both incredibly talented and the dusty spark is, is getting a lot of buzz.
Uh, they were actually recently all over, uh, the country, most, mostly all LA I think, but, but around the country on billboards for Spotify who was promoting their work. I I was, was lucky enough to, to, you know, E meet them. Uh, and, and then, uh, it's just been nice getting to know them. They're wonderful, wonderful women, and, and they're doing some really cool work that you should all check out.
Um, Without further ado, check out this awesome conversation I had with the co-host of the Desi spark. If you've been following the show for a while, you know, I'm a huge fan of road, runner C B D. I used all of their products. Seriously. I run through a tub of their muscle gel every couple of weeks because I'm in my thirties and everything hurts.
Their Bal is perfect for keeping my skin smooth and healthy. And I mix their CBD flower with every joint eye roll to give my high that perfect equilibrium I'm always looking for. So to change your life with road runner C's products, go to road runner cbd.com/ref/cys. Again, that's road runner cbd.com/ref re F slash C Y S.
And use the code CYS at checkout for 10% off. Trust me, you're gonna want to try this out. Check 'em out today. Support us on Patreon. Check us out at patreon.com/choose your struggle or at the link in your show notes. Welcome back to the choose your struggle podcast. It's great to be back with you all as always.
We have a really special episode today. Not be only because the, the, the guests are all stars, but as you just heard me say, it's because we have. Plural. That's pretty, pretty fun. That's I don't think we do that often here. Uh, but these two are a tag team that are really doing some pretty incredible work that we will obviously get into.
But before we do that, if y'all wouldn't mind introducing yourself to my listeners,
Listeners they're deferring to each other. That's that's the pause. literally pointing at her. Like you wanna go and she's doing the same. Hi everyone. My name is Anika Sherma and I am a communications project manager by day at Cornell medicine. And by night I am a agent and then published author. And of course, as we know the co-host and co-founder of, uh, that they see spark podcast.
And my name is NA Tani. I work at a startup in Silicon valley called gong as a content marketing manager. And then I'm also a travel and lifestyle blogger@natani.com. And I get to work with this beautiful Annika Sherma for our podcast that they spark as well. So my listeners know, cause this is something that, that I've been trying to do.
Uh, I really doubled down on here in season three, and that is only interviewing a, the fellow podcast host of shows I actually listened to. Uh, so I'm very delighted to have you both here today. Your show is recommended to me. I, I I'm so sorry. One of my listeners, I'm gonna say this. I actually went back in my email cuz somebody reached out last season was like, you need to talk to, to these amazing people.
I cannot find the email. I'm so sorry. Listener, you know who you are, please feel free to reach out and be like you asshole. That was me. Um but yes, it's so it's so awesome to meet you. You, you both in, in quote unquote in person, um, as my listeners know, and as we talked about right before we started recording the, the, the most important thing I think to set up before we talk about your work is, is why, you know, we.
That's the, the Simon Sinek book start with why for, for the two of you help help the listeners understand what was it that made you want to do. And, and I guess in this case, we're really talking about the show in, in the advocacy work. So largely this is. Prob about almost three years ago. Now, I can't believe I'm about to say that because it's blowing my mind right now.
But, uh, in 2018 I had just moved to New York and my friend was like, you know, I, one of my best friends said, you know, you have a lot to say, you should start a podcast. And I was like, I just don't. I just started a new job. I have this book that needs to come out. Like I just don't have the time. And obviously a month later, the idea stuck and we started this, this podcast.
I actually met NA hill through a Facebook. Call for cohosts that I put out in a group. And it wasn't anything that we had no idea all of this was coming. So that's amazing. And I first off shout out to the listener who emailed you about getting us on here? Cuz we're excited to be here in the first place, but also it was just one of those things where we just realized the podcasting space at the time was crazy white and we were just lacking any salvation representation and.
I know the word representation's been getting thrown around a lot in the last few years, especially with now TV shows in the last, through the pandemic. I feel like media especially started realizing, oh my gosh, we have a serious diversity problem, but it was really old for both of us because we both are avid podcast listeners to sit there and go, there's no one that sounds like us in terms of being these millennial women who are south Asian American and specifically Indian American, and it just got old.
And then realizing that. There's a whole population. That's going through issues by themselves. Infer, infertility, LGBTQ rights. We're looking at, you know, honor based violence and it's all quiet and everyone is struggling in silence and it just seemed wrong. And so it was easy for us to just start talking about it, to do our research and to talk about.
Learning and growing alongside our listeners, but we started pulling in experts who actually know what they're talking about and who can give us some examples of what advocacy looks like, what learning looks like, what sort of these topics, um, kind of present themselves as, and how people in the south Asian American community can kind of cope with them so that they don't feel as alone.
So that's sort of how we got to where we are. And, um, it's been awesome and we're learning every day and we F up all the time and you know, we're right there alongside our listeners. I think. I think also like the vision of the podcast has also evolved over time. Mm-hmm I think when we first started, we had about six people on the podcast and, you know, having six people on one podcast is a shit show.
And so we decided that, okay, let's try to figure out what we're trying to convey as a message. And then we kind of brought it down to us, to the two people, willing to commit two people willing to put in the work and really willing to take. A long way. And so after we did that, we realized like, okay, yes, we're very passionate about advocacy.
And so our original neighbor of our podcast was actually called the woke. They see. So the meaning of woke at the time was during this entire upbringing of the word, like everyone was using the word woke because it meant it was related to advocacy in social justice issues. Recently in December of last year, we decided the word word woke was.
Because we thought that the word woke was being misused. And we also heard a lot of like celebrities come out and just say that it was too politically correct and incorrect. And the scope of our podcast had changed too. And so we decided to change the name to that AC spark and what our mission. Evolved.
Like I said, it, we continued to push advocacy, but also focus on representation. And it kind of grew the entire podcast of like what kind of guests we could bring, because it wasn't just social justice related or just advocacy related. But we were able to get like celebrities, we were able to get influencers and chefs and everything, anyone that was south Asian and kind of be like, Hey, you have that a C spark in you.
We have that a C spark in us. So let's kind of bring together a community. I, I love all that so much. And, and you just did something so perfectly that I should have done before we even started any of this, which was, we defined a couple of words here woke, obviously being the one that it's a little played out and more, more worse than that.
It's co-opted by some people mm-hmm are using it in the less than, less than genuine, uh, uh, use of the. Now I do have to say, because I don't think while I know this from my statistics, that most of my listeners are not south Asian. Would one of you mind defining the word Desy for us? Yeah. So they tends to refer to anybody who is from the south Asian diaspora, but to be completely Frank, there is a whole lot of debate about that too, just because people identify as so many different things.
So some people are like, no, I'm south Asian, that's it I'm Indian specifically, or even the. You know, 29 states in India. I am one of those states specifically. So identity varies across the board, but for us, they see was a word that we felt like we could relate to. And it kind of referred to our background, but essentially it's anyone who comes from the south Asian region, which encompasses, um, seven to eight countries, depending on what your definition is.
And, uh, anyone who has origins in those countries, whether they're first generation, second generation immigrants, themselves, whatever. Well, thank you so much for that. I, I, I definitely appreciate it. And I know the listeners who may not be familiar with that. It, it would, you know, appreciative as well, you know, uh, a couple weeks ago now, as we're recording this, I was at a podcast move in evolutions.
And as, as I know, one, one of you were, was yeah. And we missed our, we missed each other. Somehow we spoke on separate days, but we, we, we, we didn't, we didn't cross paths and you know, the, the talk of representation. Is something that was actually brought up a couple of times, not enough. Um, and, and still, you know, this was, this was sort of an aside that my listeners know, cuz I talked about it when, when I was in Nashville at the last, uh, conference back in August that the only minority, um, speakers were on panels about diversity, which is just.
Well, let's be honest. It's real fucked up. Yeah. Um, but, but when we talk about diversity in this space, it's mostly, you know, American people of color, black, brown Americans, we don't get this Daisy or, or, or, or any sort of Asian representation in this space. Uh, you know, obviously we'll, we'll talk about the work more in the second half, but when it came to actually seeing your podcast, as you mentioned before, you, weren't seeing a lot of people like you, you know, I guess I wanna pat you on the back here and say that a lot of people see that and go, wow, that's, that's a real shame.
And other people go, wow, that's a shame and I'm gonna do something about it. So where did that decision come from? You know, tell, tell us about the, you know, finding each other on the Facebook. I mean, how did the actual decision to get, start, you know, go, it was one of those things where I think it was kind of a spur of the moment thing and also.
I was just tired of it. I kind of was like, you know, I really wanted at the time, it's funny that hol mentions the shift that we've had in the vision of the podcast. Because when we originally started, we were thinking it would be something like the real meet sex in the city. It would be more of like a girl talk, kind of grabbing a cup of tries sitting in your living room and having a chat kind of a podcast it's sort of is, I mean, me and Nale are really, really close friends.
And so there is still that vibe. Originally when we started, we had those six cohosts. None of us knew one another. We all had side hustles that we were putting efforts into other than the podcast and full-time jobs as well. And then we all kind of got together and we couldn't decide on exactly what direction we wanted to go in.
And. We met on, like I said, on that Facebook group, I had put out a call that was just like, I'm going to do this. I'm gonna find someone who can do this with me because a podcast, which I don't know if a lot of people know, if you wanna turn it into something really big, it takes a lot of work and commitment, but starting a podcast itself, if you're sitting here saying, Hey, I wanna reach my five friends and that's about it.
It's actually not that work intensive. And so I was talking to my brother who was actually the third member of our team in our, in. Co-founder and producer. And I was like, I really wanna start this. And he said, well, it's not that hard. Why don't you do it? And so luckily he gave me a little bit of a nudge.
And then when. I put this out on Facebook. NA hole was one of the few people who responded in like the most professional. Like you could just tell she's a marketer, right? So she, this girl, like the light is shining out of her ass and she is just like, she's like, hi, I'm Nale and I'm a blogger. And I have this and I talk about relationships all the time and I have this and she gives me links and she gives me all this stuff.
And I was like, this is the only. Form. I saw that. I feel like I actually know her after I finished this and it wasn't just like, I'm kinda vaguely interested in talking about things. And so she, uh, she was the first one that I was like my brother and I both, um, crosschecked our list cuz we both value very different things and he and I are very different and.
NAL was number one on both of our lists. And so we were just like, she's a shoe in this, is it there's, there's no question this girl's doing it. And then as soon as we, uh, started the, the show, we started talking to the other cohosts and it was instantaneous. Like, I was very surprised. There's a little bit of an age gap between us.
Um, it's about seven to eight years. And so I was thinking like, oh, she's, she's still young. She's like looking a different phase of life. She is living life to her fullest. And I am like the settle down, boring geriatric person. Like, how am I feeling about this? And. And she, and I were just instantaneous our, our work ethic and everything was the same.
And, and it was really beautiful. And, um, when we started taking off and we realized, oh my God, this is actually a commitment. Um, both of us were in it and we're still in it. And we still communicate all the time. And if I'm having a hard time, she takes over. If she's having a hard time, I take over, like we have our bumps and our bruises, but at the end of the day, it's still team.
So it's kind of nice. And, and it's nice, cuz we've become friends. And as the podcast has grown, we've had to learn about each other. So it's really weird going into a business with someone you've never met and then. Launching, and then having this thing succeed and then going, oh my God. A year later, we're LLC.
And I had no idea who this girl was a year ago and we're doing it anyway. And it's, it's just been a wild, a wild ride all together. And you know, it's been, like I said, full of bumps and bruises and, you know, craziness on the way, but, but we're lucky that that we're here and the journey's been wild. I also think that there was just so many different topics we wanted to talk about.
So when we first started, I remember that first call with all six of us. People were like, Hey, let's talk about mental health. I was like, all right, let's do that. And then they were like, let's talk about sex and dating. Okay. Let's talk about sex and dating. Wait, what are our parents gonna say? Are we allowed to talk about sex and dating?
Oh, shit. Let's not talk about sex and dating. Okay. What do we talk about then? And we're like going in circles trying to find topics and we're like, okay. I think the core of all of this, that we're saying in our viewpoints is because we're south Asian. Like, we don't wanna talk about sex dating too explicitly because you know, we're south Asian, whatever parents hear it, but then it's like, okay.
Mental health. Okay. I'm cool with my parents hearing it, but wait, do they know what that is? Does anybody know what that is? Wait, is anyone dealing with whatever I'm dealing with? Okay. That was the common ground right then and there we. We are all south Asian. We need to talk about these topics that are not talked about openly.
And the other thing that came across a lot was the generation gap. So I don't know about UJA, but I feel like being in my, so I'm in my mid thirties nails and her mid twenties. Even looking at people who are in college now feels like that generation. Like I, that trip that train has left the station.
There is no catching up at this point with me. Like I already feel like I'm 50 years ahead. So I think the other critical point was recognizing like our audience. Would fall into people like us who are largely millennial. And so that's just who we're targeting. So we're tar, we're targeting people who are outside of college at this point.
Most of the time, people who are probably a couple years into their career or starting families or navigating relationships or navigating the relationships that failed or figuring out that they don't ever wanna be in one, all of those different things and all the nuances, I don't think I've ever learned so damn much as I have, since I started the podcast, even about brown people, like I thought I knew, I thought I was tapped in.
I thought I knew things. And then I started this podcast. And NA hall can probably say the exact same thing. I don't think we've ever. Learned so much about our own people and our own selves as we have, since we started this dang thinking that we knew everything there was to know. Anyway, so you, you started this show, uh, in a really, you know, all of this has been very positive.
I'll say that is my preface going into this, but on a negative side, You started this show at a time when the media was really focusing on that, the fact that, uh, crimes against Asian people in this country were skyrocketing. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, in, in, in a way that that topic was not even a page six page 10 story became front page on the biggest newspapers in the world while you've been doing.
This show I guess, was, was trying to be more vulnerable and open and advocating for your community during this time. Was that part of the discussion? Yeah, absolutely. I also feel like, I mean, it kind of sucks that it took like a whole year and a half and these Asian hate crimes for us to feel seen a little bit, especially during this time.
But I remember in may of last year when this was all happening, Asian, uh, American Pacific Islander month was happening during may as well. And I felt like that was the first time brands finally were realizing, like, this is a bigger issue than. What has ever happened? Mm-hmm . And so for us, it turned out that Spotify actually reached out and they put billboards across New York and San Francisco.
And they asked for our podcast to be featured. I remember going with my parents to see our billboard and I was like, look, mom, dad that's me. And as Indian parents, they were like, Oh, finally, now we get what you do. You're a podcaster one and a half years later, I'm like, OK. It took my face being on something like a billboard for you to understand, like what we do.
We also had, um, Forbes reach out and Forbes did an article on minority podcasts and, you know, At the moment, I was really, really happy that we were getting the recognition, but like looking back, it kind of just felt like, and I'm being completely honest. I'm in marketing, it felt like a PR move a little bit.
I felt like the spike happened in may and stayed in may after that, it was like, wait, where is all the advocacy work being done by other companies? Because I like, it's great that that happened, but I thought it would continue. Or a long term partnership of some sort would come, but it. I think what you were saying, Jay, about how diversity is a buzzword that people put people on these panels and nowhere else, are they on the boards for these companies that are talking about podcasts?
Are they behind on the production teams? Are they on the writing teams? Are, we've been talking a lot about that. Um, with some of the actors and actresses and influencers who've been coming on our podcast lately and that's something that's constantly being brought up is that, that people. Tout representation.
People tout diversity. If you're pushing forward the faces of people of color and the other thing going into what you were saying about, you know, violence and people being seen, I cannot imagine. The level of just feeling that way for, for black Americans in particular, after the tragedy of George Floyd, but also I think for Asians and Asian Americans through COVID and then for south Asian Americans, after nine 11 and being, you know, all of.
It always takes a tragedy to make people recognize that people of color exist. And there's this constant narrative with, even with creative industries like books or with movies or whatever, they capitalize on the traumas of people of color all the time. It's almost like you cease to be people because you're just talking about all the bad things that have happened all the time to your people as a whole.
So like, All of us have experiences of being called a terrorist because we have brown skin and nine 11 happened to the us. All of us have experiences with racism as a whole. All of us have experiences, whether it looks like, you know, hate crimes against Asian Americans post COVID or whether it looks like hate crimes against black Americans through all of time.
You know, we're looking through. Lenses of trauma all the time. And so it was really hard too, to suddenly be recognized and being, you know, people being like, oh, diversity, let's push this forward. We've been here all along. Where were you when we existed this whole time? And so it is challenging sometimes.
I don't know that. You know, it's just our reality. So I feel like many of people, many people of color, many marginalized communities, we were just sort of carrying on. But then the last two years really brought it to the forefront. And then we realized, oh my God, people are kind of vaguely getting interested.
And at that point you have a choice to make on. Do you wanna run with it? And do you wanna start pushing forward all the issues that matter to you because this is your time or. Do you shy away from it and build resentment? And I think luckily for us, it's worked out that we just decided to run with it.
Um, but it's definitely something that factored into our content. I think originally it was just, if you look at our first initial season pre all of this chaos pre pandemic, it was a lot of, um, Just the things that south Asians face. And now there's a lot more themes of broad social justice. There's a lot more themes of, you know, like is diversity enough?
There's a lot of conversations around what is identity and where do we fit in the world? Because in the last two years we realized. People finally saw us people realized we were actually here and now we're not just talking to our people. We actually have a platform. So it's been, it's been definitely a reckoning in some ways in some days it's not so nice.
And it's not so pretty to realize that you were invisible all along, but other times, you know, we've, we've lucked out and it's been, it's been nice. So. I think it's also interesting to see how the scope of our audience has also changed. You know, we're getting tagged in things every day of social justice issues, or they're like, Hey, that smart.
Can you talk about this? Or, Hey, can you post about this? Like, you know, we're getting tagged in all of these big things now. And so we're like, okay, we have to be vigilant. We have decided to use this platform for advocacy and good. So let's make sure that we're. Spread a little thin and making sure that we're covering all the bases and it can be a little challenging because there are so many things to be thrown at you.
But I think, um, like, you know, we really do put in the work and we do research before our topics and really try to understand all perspectives before doing an episode. Well, that is a perfect segue into talking about the, the content of the show. But before we do that, let's take a break real quick. And before we go to the break, if you wouldn't mind shouting out where everybody can find you online, where they can follow you on social media, all the good stuff.
Yeah. So you can find our podcast that they see spark on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook. At that Macy spark, you can follow me at NA Tani on Instagram and my website, www.na tani.com. And you can follow me at Anika Sharma a N N I K a S H a R M a. Um, and also on my website@wwwdotanahsharma.com.
And you can find my books on Amazon and barn and noble and any, every major book sale retailer. Thank you for supporting the show here at choose your struggle. We rely on all of y'all to help us end stigma and promote honest and fact based education around mental health, substance misuse, and recovery and drug use and policy.
And there's so many ways to engage with our work from our podcast to our storytelling events. To bring me in to speak to your company, your school or your organization. You can also support us on Patreon for as little as $3 and 40 cents a month. And we're so appreciative. This work is grueling at times and your support goes a long way to helping us keep going.
So find us@chooseyourstruggledotcomandfindmeatjayshiftman.com. And thank you. Thank you for being a part of the choose your struggle family. Choose your struggle, your struggles. Choose your struggles. Would choose just if you're liking the show, please consider leaving us a review. If you're listening on apple, you can leave a review right on your player for everybody else.
Check out the link in the show notes. You both are, you know, people who very clearly, well, I shouldn't say I shouldn't say that. I was gonna say clearly have no problem putting yourself forward. I don't know. Maybe like me every single time you put out an episode, you're like, oh shit, what is this? The week where I trend on Twitter or something.
Right. I don't know. Maybe, maybe you have the same, uh, feeling. I honestly, I I've said this before. Nothing scares me more than when I log into Twitter and see alerts. I go, oh shit. What are they saying about me today? Maybe you're you feel the same way, but you know, this is a conscious choice. Nobody, nobody just, um, falls into advocacy.
They, they have to, there's a bravery there. And especially when you're dealing with issues, you know, I talk about drug use and I get so much hateful shit, but at least it's about the content of my words. I'm not getting. Hate for being who I am. How do you, you know, how do you deal with being an advocate for a, a marginalized group?
How, how, how is that on your mental health? Um, I can, I can sometimes take a toll on your mental health if I'm being completely honest. I mean, I feel like everyone has an opinion. Everyone thinks their opinion is right. And, you know, I feel like that's how life works. And so it's like, no matter how much work you put in, or how much, like how much research we do, I feel like there will always always be a critic about something that we have said, something that someone else has said, and I'll actually share an example.
Because I think the best thing that an and I do is that we literally hear our audience. We listen to them and we make sure that if we can understand their perspective and understand their view, we're willing to learn from it. We're still a work in progress too. And I think my example that I love to share always is.
We did an episode during black lives matter movement around anti-blackness in the, actually it was before the black lives matter movement. It was before. Yeah. And we did, yeah, it was way before, actually about anti-blackness in the south Asian community. And we had talked about like the N word and we had talked about like, Do you think it's okay to say it in songs or not?
And so it was just a casual conversation. This was like maybe seven or eight months before black lives matter. And I was like, yeah, I think it's fine because I think, you know, we're singing a song. I think they put it in this, like, I think it's okay. Obviously when the black lives matter movement came out, we started learning about this press community.
We started learning about like what the word means and more details around like what people are feeling. And someone had actually like called me out and they. Didn't NA say in that one episode, eight months ago that like, it's okay to say it. And I actually went on this like town hall or council and I actually apologized publicly.
I was like, yeah. I said this in a podcast episode eight months ago. Um, but I'm educated. I'm aware now. And I've learned that like, you know, What this word means and how much weight it carries. So, um, I take back what I said and people were just like blown away by that. They were like, thank you, NA hole for like saying, um, and like owning up to what you said and like learning from it.
And I think that is like the best thing you can do. I agree. It's been interesting. I think my relationship with social media and trying to figure out just where we fit, where we fit in creatively and like how we respond to people. I. And someone NA hole will tell you, I'm not someone who emotionally responds very quickly to things all the time.
Like I always consider what people have to say now, if it's some. Asshole just being like, oh, you sock or whatever. Like the chances of that are just, it's gonna try to like roll off my back. There's no validity to that unless they have something to back it up with, but points like what NAL was saying. I remember part of the reason that we changed our title from the woke AC to that AC spark, like you said, Jay was the co-opting in the first place of a word that we were not supposed to be using.
We kept trying, we, we were thinking through that and we wanted to change it much earlier than we did, but that was kind of a point with advocacy where we were. It was so funny because we actually got a lot of messages that said, oh, you guys have the perfect title. You talk about so many things that are kind of relevant.
And our friends were like, oh no, the woke, Stacey's a perfect title. And I kept thinking, oh my God, it's not the perfect title. We need to change this soon. We're thinking about changing this soon. And. It was one of those things where you just have to learn to walk the walk, right? If you're gonna talk about all of these different issues, you're gonna stand up for other communities that are going through different things, but you know, in the same vein as ours, then you have to walk the walk.
And so, as long as Naomi and I are doing that, I feel like we both can sleep at night and we can cope with all of the, the shit that people throw at us. It's the day that someone says. This was completely wrong and you took the wrong moral side on something that will probably kind of have to reassess and see where we are.
But if it's, there are moments where you look around at some of the hate or some of the criticisms, and you're like, I don't know if this is just nitpicking or if this is really worth considering. And then you also get the big things. They're like that's 100% worth considering it will change this. And the, the title change was one of those things, you know, and you, you have your bumps and you definitely kind.
Have to take some punches and it's not always easy. There are days where I go off social media. I didn't have Facebook for the first six months of our podcast and was like, you might need to come back just to be able to promote this thing. And I was like, do I have to come back? Cuz I also don't wanna open myself up to all the crap that people say.
Um, but I think with advocacy, like you said, you know, with talking about things that are heated people see. People see it in their own lives. And so it's obviously gonna pull a response from all of them. And so you just have to kind of do your best to be as compassionate as possible, but also protect your space as much as possible.
And I wish I had a perfect recipe to, to tell people how to do that, but it's a, it's a day to day varying thing. And, um, I think we're just, you know, lucky that we've come out relatively unscathed. Although now that I say that we're totally gonna blow up for something awful. I also think that Anna and I like balance each other out in just the terms of our personality and how we handle, maybe not even like trolls and hates, but also like criticism, like constructive criticism.
And so I think like what Anika said, she is just so compassionate and like kills him with kindness and is like, very, just like. Wanting to respond to like everything on social media in a very kind way. But I feel like also because of her generational gap, I feel like I was on Instagram starting 2009 and like have completely been like in on Instagram, I am sometimes able to tell you Anika, like, do not respond.
Who cares? Don't give a fuck. Like, I feel like sometimes you are, you take things more to heart and you do wanna wrestle, but I'm like, it does not matter. We just turn a blind eye. We're not looking at it. And so I feel like that's where our personality has. For the best of us, both of us, because I feel like she brings out this like compassion and like kindness and like also is just like helping us out on social media to like mediate this community and, uh, talk to everyone.
But I'm also like don't feed the trolls. Don't let people bother you do not for the hate. So, so the lesson I'm I'm getting here at hall is that I need a 25 year old co-host, uh, to help me do better on, OK. I'm so sorry. Uh, you're old co-host to help me do better on social media. Ah, man, that's hilarious. So, uh, you know, a lot of your episode, if you listen in, I mean, you know, you do have this crossover appeal, obviously you are not only popular in the, the Desi or south Asian community.
You, you have, uh, it's a very informative podcast that people can learn a lot from, you know, if you're talking to some listeners right now who, who may. I'm guessing be unfamiliar with your show. Is there a particular episode that you would say, if you wanna understand sort of the tone of our work? Uh, this is what I would recommend you go check.
I think for, um, me and I think we both have different answers. Um, I think there is a few episodes that are really actually relatable to a lot of different cultures. Um, so for women, infertility is a really big issue that is kind of not talked about. And so I would recommend listening to an infertility issue.
And for men, we did an episode on men's mental health and how, you know, There's this notion that men don't cry. And so we had men come on our podcast and talk about how, you know, in their, in the south Asian culture, like what they've gone through and what mental health means to them. And sometimes they're just like told, like don't be a pussy or something.
And so I think those two kind of are a great episode that anybody can listen to and relate and just hear the pain and the stories that both or all of our, uh, guests are talking. I agree. I would say that the heavier issues are the ones that are more rooted in our backgrounds, because those are the ones that come with the most baggage.
Right. Um, but I would say that the episode, if you wanted to listen to just our tone, just who we are and sort of laugh along with us, but also kind of delve in, I would say, are any of the episodes relating to dating and sex? Um, because across cultures, I think that, for example, the stigma that comes with women.
Having pleasure and having partners and doing what they want and having kind of a reputation that comes with that and sort of the double standard and all of those things. I think those episodes are probably the most fun. You'll catch us at our element in those episodes. And I'm actually gonna plug one that's coming out soon because we had, uh, an expert who just did research on.
Gen Z and how hookup culture looks. And we had one of our so good. It was so good. She dropped so many statistics across sexualities, across age groups, across like how people hook up. And I think things like that are really relevant just because firstly, Nate and I are not. Gen Z, uh, kids. And then on top of that, like we're, you know, we're, we're trying to decode this, but then on top of that, we have our own opinions and our lived experiences.
So I think that's actually a really good one. So I would say anything around eating and sex, but this upcoming episode is actually really solid. That sounds like a very interesting and enjoyable episode. I'm sure my listeners will, will love that. You know, we've had a couple of different people on here talking about the knowledge, your point, the, the fact that we don't focus on women's pleasure.
And, and what that says about our culture, I think is a really interesting, interesting point, you know, The something that I think we can commiserate on, or I don't know, what's the positive for commiserate because it's a negative word. Um, that, that, that we can, we can agree on here is that podcasting sometimes, uh, you learn a lot from the responses you get from the show.
Um, you know, I, I, the, the. Story. I love telling is recently an older relative in my life who I love very much. Uh, we were talking about drug use and I mentioned that somebody who had passed away probably could have been saved by safe supply. And she went, yeah, that makes sense. And I was like, what? , uh, interesting.
I, you, you agree with this topic is very interesting. So what kind of positive responses have you gotten that, that made you go, oh wow. We may be getting somewhere here. We may be actually, you know, really making a difference. I think for me, it was definitely my parents. Um, I think that I remember vividly when the infertility episode came out, I sat down with my mom and we've never talked about any of this stuff before in detail.
And she was like, Blown away by how we were talking about this so openly. And she had, um, also told me that she had a miscarriage. And so I was like, whoa, mom, like what? And she's like, yeah, like there was so much shame. Like how could you lose a baby? Or how did you lose the baby? And I was like, wait, that's crazy.
You've never talked to me about it. And so I think like, aside from her amazing listeners, it was a breakthrough to my parents and talking about mental health infertility, or just even dating around and things like that. With my parents and them understanding, actually not this export. Oh, we're still out there yet.
I, I would say bill. I would say the same thing, except it's just there's. So there was this older uncle in our community who someone. Our parents age or older, who had reached out and written a review on our podcast about how he was happy that we'd started it because it gave him insights into the younger generation and helped him understand.
And every once in a while, like the listeners are incredible, but they're in our age group. And there's more understanding there. I think it's all the older. People who have come out of the struggles that we're facing or have come out on the other side or who face them in India, Pakistan, wherever, and had it look different than we do who come by and are like, I just didn't know.
Or I didn't think about this or you guys really help that. And those are the ones that blow my mind. I get shocked every single time someone says, oh yeah, you know, and it's just, like you said, with your relative. Uh, you, you love them and you, you're just kind of anticipating, they're gonna push back against this one topic.
They're gonna say this one thing and you're just gonna be like, oh great. I thought I liked you. And it's not really like that. It was incredible. And, and it's heartening because you go, okay. Some of these things are heavy, but people are listening. Not just people in our age group of people older are. In fact listening to what we have to say and taking it in, and maybe in some strange way healing themselves, which I think is like an incredible gift for us to be able to do.
And for, you know, like what, what more could you ask for? Right. So, um, so those are definitely the moments that you realize, like the show has a broader reach, um, and podcast as a whole. Eliminate a lot of, let's say, as it's not as obvious as watching a television show and having your family walk in on, on it.
So if someone older is listening to a podcast in their headphones, they could be listening to ours and having their lives change, whether it's us, whether it's another podcast and no one would know, but they're learning and that's. That's incredible. I love that point so much. I, I had someone, this is a story I've told a lot, but, uh, reach out during season one years ago, just say that they love my show and it was their way of finding connection, because these were topics that they didn't talk about.
Uh, in their community. And, and to your point, exactly. Anika, that it's that you, you, no one knows what you're listening to when your headphones were on. Yeah. It's a very safe space. So thank you for that point. That's a really good one. Uh, I could chat with both of you all day. This has been a lot of fun but before we, we, we run off the rails, I will say, uh, one more time, but you wouldn't mind shouting out where people can find you online, but they can follow you and all the good stuff.
Yeah. So follow us that they see spark on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook. You can follow me at nay Tani that's N E H a L T E N a N Y. And my website www do NA tani.com. For some blogs around lifestyle travel and dating, and you can follow me Anika Sharma at Anika Sharma on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook.
And you can find my books anywhere at any major book sale retailer. So Amazon Barnes and noble, et cetera. Wonderful. Well, we always finish with the same two questions. Uh, and the first one is, you know, this show does cover mental health. So let's start with Anika. What self care habits work for you? I have been very lucky to have a therapist.
And I think that that was one of the greatest things I ever chased down, um, because it helps me with the small things and the big things. And the other thing is to schedule time for myself. My morning cup of coffee is my me time. If anyone talks to me, they will be ignored. It is a half an hour of dedicated time to sit and to think to stress, to be calm.
Whatever I need that half hour is mine. Mine is also a therapist. I am very fortunate that my company is, um, has a program that you are able to get a therapist from. And then my other thing is being a vegetable. I love just spending a Sunday for a couple hours in like vegetables, stay with like a blanket and watching TV for like eight hours and not checking my phone.
And if I love a show like Bridger 10, I will just watch it in one. Wonderful. You're like the third person in the last couple weeks that has shouted up Bridger tin. Uh, I've never watched it, but maybe I gotta get on this, this train. The south Asian representation is so strong on season two. And that's all I have to say about that.
It's so great. go Bridgeton. All right. The last one we always finish with is we've now spent the last, uh, almost 40 minutes hearing why y'all are awesome and we need to be following your work, but this is your chance to shout out people. You follow. People are influential shows. You listen to, uh, books, you're reading anything that you want the people to know.
And NHA, we'll start with you. Ooh, that's a good one. I am a huge fan of product of culture. They are doing a lot of great work with just, uh, south Asian representation in media. Huge fan of Browns, girl magazine of the CEO is a very close friend and she is just doing incredible work across the board on all things, south Asian.
And what am I currently reading? Um, I okay. South Asian, a rep like I'm reading's book, first of all, love China for other words. So that one you have to check out, but also, um, the henna artist check out the henna artist. I'm currently reading the sequel and I'm loving it. I think that if we're talking podcasts, I love, love, love, but what will people say?
Uh, the host DHA is amazing and, uh, the other one is brown people we know. And actually the third one is south Asian trailblazers because all three of them. Brown people well, but what will people say is more along the lines of like social issue is just great girlfriend, like conversation brown people we know does these really unique episodes with people, the deep dives with people who have careers that are.
So out there and so cool and so unique. And then south Asian trailblazers talk to some big players in whatever game we're looking at. And they're just, you know, like people in the NFL they've talked to, um, to PI Kadakia from class pass, they've talked to some really big names. So just to see the impact that south Asians have had.
On the world and in industry is incredible. It's a very professional, very cool podcast. And then for books, I could start a list of probably 35 different authors that I'm all friends with, but I will Hawk for now. Nisha Sharma Sonali, Dave Mona. Fagan Qari so IRA and Nu Patel who's upcoming book in June is a women's fiction novel called the candid life of Mina.
They, and she is an incredible author and she's a debut and I can't and publicize her enough. Wonderful. Thank you. Both. This has been a lot of fun. I'm glad we could finally, you know, make this work time wise. And, uh, thank you both for your wealth of knowledge. It's it's really been really been fascinat.
Thank you so much for having us. Thank you. You're a great host. I wanna do this again. hello? Hello. My lovelies. My name is Danna and I'm the host of the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. Now any worthy form of media, as well as our lives always echo our sexuality, our desire to feel phenomenal in our need to reach for something greater than ourselves.
My show is real. My show is inclusive. My show is for everyone I'm vulnerable, I'm transparent. And there's nothing I'm afraid to talk about. So stop by the sex drugs in Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to find us in social media. Check the link in your show notes or search for Jay Shiftman and choose your struggle on any social media platform.
All right, we've come to the end of it. Another episode of the choose your struggle podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in. It was great to be back with you all this week. I hope you enjoyed the conversation with my two incredible guests, NHA and Anika were both wonderful and it really was fantastic learning from them, learning from their experiences, their, their education worldview, just all of it.
I, I, I was so delightful to learn from them and I appreciate their time. Please go check out their stuff, check out the link in the show notes, check out, uh, the Desi spark, wherever you're you're hearing and enjoying this show. Just just support them because they're wonderful, wonderful women. And, and I just am so thankful that, that they were able to come and, and educate me and educate all of y'all.
Uh, before we get in the card in the good egg, um, a reminder, please use spot inbox. It is in the link as in the show notes, anybody who, um, does, so this week, the first person to do shots, first person to do. So I should say is going to get a copy of, yes. Magazine's latest addition about pleasure. That includes my article about drug use and drug policies.
So check that. And reminder, I will most likely be off next week. Um, if not the week after. So all of that now for your card, we're gonna use the mindfulness reminders card pack from Chris. I am struggling today. Chris Willard and Mitch T. These are fif 52 powerful practices for teens and adults. And here is.
Your card, every step you take, every move you make. No. Um, that sounds a little creepy, in my opinion. Uh, flip down this card and walk to wherever you were going. Notice every sensation for each of the next 10 steps. I love that. So, you know, one of the major reasons Lauren and I moved to Philadelphia, one of the many, many reasons, but one of the big, big ones was walkability.
We love it. We love, we went three weeks without moving our car. And it wasn't because we didn't go places. We take, we take the train, we take the subway, we walk, we bike a lot. It's just wonderful. It has been so wonderful to, to change that lifestyle, um, reduce our carbon footprint that way. And our stress level has just been so significantly lower.
Um, But a big part of that recently was I made the, the decision whenever I take Nell for a walk, I don't put my headphones in anymore. Um, you know, obviously when I go for a run, any of that kinda stuff, obviously I still do. But when, when I'm walking Nell, I wanna be more present and enjoy this city that we've chosen, that we love, enjoy being with, uh, Nell, who I love and, and, and.
It's fun going on, walks with her and it has made is reduced my stress level. It's made my, my life a better, a better life. So definitely take that card, uh, for its face value and, and just be mindful of your steps and appreciative of, of the ability to walk and enjoy this, this earth. Now here's my, I, I, I haven't mentioned this on any of the other parts of this show.
Um, If you're still listening, it means you, you love me. and you love this show and you, you, maybe you're doing the things that I ask as you're good eggs. Um, I record, I'm recording this on Wednesday, uh, on Saturday night, Lauren and I were out at pride with some friends, uh, enjoying a drag show and just celebrating pride.
And we, you know, had a normal, wonderful night, went home, woke up and found out. That we had been about seven or so blocks, uh, from the, I'm not even gonna say latest, I would say latest, but by the time this drops will be in at least another couple. So. The the, the mass shooting here in Philadelphia on south street, uh, we were in the same neighborhood.
We were, like I said, about seven blocks away. Uh, and it was scary. It was, um, infuriating. It was a lot of emotions. So my ask in honor of me and my wife, thankfully, surviving this, this very scary experience. Is to write your elected leaders. This doesn't really do anything. It doesn't. I mean, let's be honest.
It doesn't do anything. However, if we do this, they cannot lie and say they have not gotten any requests for common sense gun legislation. If you go to one of those services, uh, one of the nonprofits that does this work, any town, those, those kind of things. And they'll make it really easy for you. They'll have templates, they'll have, you know, you fill in your, your zip code and then they know which, you know, are your elected leaders they'll help you do it, or just send a letter, send an email, go to their page and, and tell them that you want common sense gun legislation.
Tell them you want more than common sense. Gun legislation, gun buybacks, things are doing in other countries. do this in honor, of all the people who are no longer here to do this, do this in honor. The fact that Lauren and I thankfully were not victims of this latest shooting that was very close to us.
Do it for you. Do it for your loved ones. That could be next. This only happens here. It's this is a us disease. Guns are everywhere. Mass shootings are ubiquitous, and that is a gun disease. In the United States. So do something, write your, your elected leaders on this, make it, so they cannot say that nobody has reached out and if they are, they are lying and you'll be able to say, yeah, I wrote you.
You're lying. You are lying about this, but most importantly as always be vulnerable. Show your empathy, spread your love and choose your struggle.