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Unbound is a weekly podcast, created to help you achieve more as a leader. Join Chris DuBois as he shares his growth journey and interviews others on their path to becoming unbound. Delivered weekly on Thursdays.
0:00
On today's episode, we dive into what it means to be a B Corp. And what that means for your business. Are you a leader trying to get more from your business in life? Need to. So join me as I document the conversations, stories and advice to help you achieve what matters in your life. Welcome to unbound with me, Chris DuBois. Ben Marine is the director of social and environmental impact for media consulting company dirigo collective, a certified B Corp and 1% for the planet member. He has a background in political science and spent over five years working on progressive issue campaigns around the country serving national and local nonprofits. Ben is also a business advisor for the B impact Clinic at the University of New Hampshire, a B local leader as part of the leadership circle of Maine B corpse, and is the co chair of one of the bee labs newest networks, the Be proud network Ben, welcome to unbound.
0:58
Thanks so much, Chris. I'm excited to be here. Yeah.
1:03
I mean, we've already talked about it. But full disclosure, this is a topic I don't know a lot about. And so I'm just very excited to get into everything about B corpse. But before we do, I want to hear your origin story.
1:15
Oh, my gosh, my origin story. I mean, oh, it's always like, where do you start? Yeah, I think so. For me, I started I started my career actually, as a professional photographer, and the wakeboarding industry of all places. And because I love the sport, and I was young, and action sports were all the rage. And so I lived in Orlando, and did that for a few years. And at that time, so the other thing too, that I think is just important to note, for context, so I'm a trans guy, which means I was assigned female at birth. So at that time, I was a female photographer, in a very male dominated space, and really never thought too much about it. Until I remember, we had this one photo shoot, we were shooting the Osiris shoes, women's team, and one of the athletes had just, wow, it's so different being photographed by women. And I'm like, I got all like, what like thinking like, oh, what we're not like the same as men. We're not good enough or whatever. And I was like, What do you mean by that? You know? And she's like, Oh, well, it's just no one's ever asked me how I want to be photographed. And that just blew my mind. Like, I just for me, that was such a, a moment of realizing, oh, like these women athletes that I had, you know, idolized, growing up, struggled just as much as I was struggling in that in that space. It was kind of a wake up call to me that I really wanted to be doing work that was impactful, and not not just selling wakeboards and fancy boats. And so I left Florida, came back to Maine, and didn't intend to get into politics. That was never my intention. But I got a volunteer recruitment call for the marriage equality campaign in Maine in 2012. And was a cultural volunteer, long story short, fell in love with the work, ended up getting hired by the campaign and then kept getting hired by nonprofits and different progressive issues around the country. I did that for like five ish years. And that's, it's good work, but it's exhausting work. And it's not very sustainable. Just from like, a human perspective, it's just, you know, crazy hours. And yeah, I don't know, I don't know how people do it for a lifetime. I don't know many people that do. And so then I found my way to dirigo, which felt like a really unique merriment of my professional creative background and my impact work. And so now I get to kind of marry creativity with impact and storytelling. And I just feel really, really blessed and grateful.
3:52
Right? Yeah. So dirigo collective, is a B Corp. and, and like, an evangelist, I think, as a company, you guys do a ton of work of just helping other companies with the doing this. And that you specifically do a lot more with getting in there and helping people figure out what they should be doing in order to become a B Corp and helping them through that process. So I think it'd be great to one start with what is a B Corp? And then we'll we'll kind of go from there.
4:22
Yeah, that's a great question. So what is a B Corp, so B Corp. And then now that now it's really important to make this distinction too, because people often for conflate B Corp with benefit corporations, which they are different things. So a certified B Corp is a company that has passed through the rigorous standards of B Lab, which is a nonprofit that certifies B Corp. and has had their impact measured in five key areas. So measuring governance, so how they make decisions as a business customers, how they treat their older customers, their clients, if you're b2b. Their workers there community. So thinking about supply chains and the opportunities they're creating for their community and how they're given back. And last, but certainly not least, their impact on the environment. And so looking across those five impact areas, the B Impact Assessment, which is, again, run by B Lab, that nonprofit, the impact assessment measures that and with the current standards and other standards are evolving. So I don't know if you want to get into that in a little bit. But the current standards are you have to reach 80 points across those five impact areas or more to certify. So really, what a B Corp is, is a corporation, if you see that little logo, it's a B with a circle and a line underneath it certified B Corp, if you see that, you know that that company is measuring their impact and actively working to improve their impact. Because not only is it very challenging to certify, but you have to recertify every three years. So it's not the kind of thing that you can just do check a box and you're done. It's something that you're constantly thinking about and evolving it. And so it really marks a commitment to people and planet in in a very measured way.
6:08
Right, you know, which probably differentiate like a B Corp is not an actual like tax label.
6:17
Right? Right. So that segues into what a benefit corporation is, right? So benefit corporation and not in the United States, not all 50 states have benefit corporation legislation, I think, Oh, don't quote me on this, I think it's like 33, or 35, somewhere somewhere in the 30s. States have it. And basically what that is, is it ensures that your mission and values are encoded by law into the founding documents of your business. So let's say you decide as a business, you want to go public, and you're going to sell your company. It allows the leadership of that company to continue to make decisions that involve all stakeholders. So again, like community, the environment, workers, all stakeholders, not just shareholders. So it's really an opportunity. Because under kind of some traditional, more traditional models of business, one could make the argument that they that the business is liable only to shareholders, right shareholder primacy profits above all else, right? Benefit Corporation creates a legal structure to protect that value and mission statement.
7:31
Do you find a lot of companies become a benefit corporation as well as a B Corp?
7:36
Yeah, so this gets a little bit complicated. But in in states that have benefit, benefit corporation legislation, B LAB requires you to become a benefit corporation in order to certify, with the one caveat of if you're an LLC without going too deep into that, but but for all intents and purposes, many benefit corporations are also B corpse because of that requirement. That being said, there are plenty of companies that are benefit corporations and not certified B corpse.
8:12
And that's primarily because it's it's an additional step to take that isn't unless they're they say, Hey, this is what we need to be doing or want to do right now. Like, it doesn't necessarily give them that benefit.
8:24
Yeah, absolutely. And the thing too, with with B Corp certification is it might not be the right fit for every business. So it is it is an intensive process, it is also a commitment. And certain industries aren't eligible to aren't eligible to certify. So if you're, if you happen to be a business that's in one of those industries, like for example, arms, like gun manufacturers cannot certify as B corpse, right. But if you're a gun manufacturer, and you have values that you want protected, you might become a benefit corporation. Even though you're you don't have that you don't have access to like the B Corp certification, fray. I gotcha.
9:11
And so just judging by the those five kind of categories, excuse me, the someone like a solopreneur running a company probably isn't a great fit for a B Corp, because it's gonna be harder to earn those points. So
9:26
that's actually a great question. And so, so actually, it's the the B impact assessments are very flexible in a lot of ways because it's different for everybody based on the size of your company and the industry that you're in. So that being said, somebody in this we actually just helped a business certify that is essentially a solopreneur. He has a seasonal staff so they're only on in the winter months but not all year round. And so it'd be Labs is he's really a solo forerunner. So what that means is he doesn't have that whole section on workers is, is pretty, like there's pretty much removed. Now because of that it does, there is a, you know, an algorithm there that helps you kind of get still across the ad even if you don't have any staff. So it is there are plenty of small businesses that have certified that don't have huge teams.
10:27
Right? Well, that's good to know. So I'm sure there are a lot of solopreneurs that are already doing things to try making an impact for their community. And so like being able to still, you know, kind of get the certification could could help. I'm just going to show that. And so, yeah,
10:41
I mean, the thing I like to tell folks is, if you're, if you're somebody who's, you know, if you're somebody who is, gosh, how can I use business as a force for good or, you know, have this idea of a business? I want to start, but I'm not, you know, I don't I'm not sure how I want to go about it or have question about these things. Go start a B impact assessment, it's free, doesn't cost you anything. It's accessible to anyone, anyone can start in a cow. And there's just so much in there that is helpful to business getting started. Even if you have no intention of certifying, there's absolutely no commitment to certify or anything like that. But just go in there and kick the tires, there's a lot that you can learn in terms of good business practice that's in there that can really help set you up for success. Right,
11:29
I think it was one of the one of the sharks from Shark Tank, I can't remember which so I'm not gonna try to guess. If you don't know your numbers, you don't know your business. So the pure fact of going through this assessment and just becoming aware of some of these numbers that you might not have even looked at, you know, from a different perspective is going to give you a completely different picture of your business and know what you could be doing, you know, whether you want to actually go through with actually being certified or not. So, yeah, I would argue that's one of the most valuable things you could do is just look at the assessment, and then then decide from there. Let's actually talk about that assessment. Like what what does it look like? What what is the process look like of certain work through this? Yeah. So
12:11
what I normally recommend to folks getting started that haven't certified before or are super new to it, is going to the assessment and just do a quick pass. So when you go into the assessment, it can be a little overwhelming there, depending on again, your your, the size of your business and your industry, there could be upwards of 200 questions in there. And the assessment does change based on how you answer certain questions. So there are certain questions that are gated by what's called IBM's, which are impacts business models. So if your business is serving a particular, you know, underserved population, or it's to clean up the environment, or you have some sort of like very specific impacts, that you're literally building your business around, odds are really high that you're probably going to unlock some of those IBM's. And, and there can be a whole bunch more questions underneath there. But just going in and really doing a quick just top of mind, like not thinking about the documentation or anything like that was still a quick run through of like, oh, yeah, I don't think that I know the answer. Like, I have no idea what that question even means, because there will be a lot in there where you're gonna scratch your head and be like, I don't know what they're talking about. Right? What's great about the assessment, once you're in there is they have some really great tools to help you work through it. So it within the assessment on every question, you can bookmark the question. And then there's like a little side panel where you can look at reports. And so you can have like a little bookmark report. So I say, do that first pass, bookmark everything that you're like, I have no idea. And then there's also a star function, which is a goal setting feature that's in there. So if you see something and you're like, oh, my gosh, that's the coolest, you know, I'd love to offer 100% benefits 100% health care to all of my workers. I'm not in a financial position to do that right now. But I want to set that as a goal or something to think about. You can star it, and it'll let you go. It'll pull up the question, say, how do you want to answer this in the future? And what date do you want to put to achieve this by and then it'll even email you updates on like, Hey, your goals coming up, like, you know, don't forget, right? So it's also just a really great tool in that way too. Because I think when you do that first pass, it helps you kind of do an inventory of what you know, what you don't know, identify goals, potentially even give you some ideas for your business that you might not have had before. The other thing that's really unique about the assessment is that every single question ties directly to the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals. So the UN has 17 Sustainable Development Goals. For you know, what does it look like to have a thriving planet for people and planet right? I won't go into all 17 goals, but what's nice is you can see how every individual can Question ladders up to that goal. And so when you go in, you'll see on the question there's like a little learn more, you click that, learn more, you can see what SDGs it's tied to, you can dig a little deeper. Also, it'll explain some things like sometimes folks struggle with, how do you calculate a living wage, especially if you're, if you have a remote team that spread across the country, because a living wage looks different in different communities, right? Well, it will link you directly to the MIT living wage calculator, and you can calculate it for each of the areas where your your folks or all your team reside. So just a lot of great tools and resources embedded even just within within the assessment. I don't know if that answered your question as to like, what's in there, there's just so much in there.
15:44
It's pretty cool to get as you're identifying potential goals for your for your business, being able to get that little like digital accountability, buddy to send you reminders like, hey, so this would be a good idea. Yeah.
15:56
I mean, and and the other cool thing, too, is because it has those five impact areas, it does vary like you get this little dashboard, where you see each of the five impact areas, and it'll tell you, Oh, you've answered X number of questions out of X number of questions, you know, you can see how you've scored in each area. So it also is just kind of a nice place to kind of see how you're doing in different areas to write and organize that.
16:21
I think even just being able to bookmark stuff to like, learn more about those specific questions. And what that actually means. It's like, now it's a knowledge base as well, right to be able to learn more about the impact you could be having as a business owner, which is, I think, obviously, every business owner gets into it on some level, because they have a new idea. They want to bring it to market, they want to do something and have control over it. It's like if you can also create an impact and help people while doing that. Why would you not? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So alright, let's say I'm a business owner, I work through the assessment. What What are kind of the next steps of? Do I say that as if they're going through the assessments easy. But I finished that, what are some of the next steps following? Yeah,
17:05
so once you've completed the assessment, and you're like, sweet, I feel great about it, I feel good about all my documentation, I feel ready to go, you'll go ahead and you'll submit your assessment. And you'll get put into an evaluation queue. So I think right, currently, wait times are down to I think only two or three months, there was a there was a period of time recently where I know when we certified at Deer ago, we submitted our assessment, and it was over a year wait, just in the evaluation queue. That
17:35
was like a lot of businesses applying or from too few people reviewing applications a
17:40
little bit of both, I think also COVID, there was a huge B LAB saw a huge spike in interest during the pandemic too. So I think it's a little bit of both, they've done an incredible job of resourcing and hiring up to accommodate that need. And so now the wait times are back down to where I think they were a pre pandemic of two to three months ish was the last kind of report out that I heard. So then you'll so then you it's a waiting game, right, and then you're in the evaluation phase. So what happens is an analyst from B Lab, and now what's really important, as I'm talking about B Lab, there's a really important distinction to make between B LAB global, which is the standards team. And you're the B LAB that's like serving the community. So for us, we're service by B Lab, US and Canada. So if you go to any online events, or you go to champions retreat, or you go to any be locals, all of that Programming is supported by B Lab, US and Canada. And when you I'm jumping ahead a little bit here, but when you do certify, and you pay your dues, it goes to wherever your local community. So for us, us in Canada, it goes to that organization. Why this is important is B LAB global being the standards team is kept entirely separate. So if I'm best buddies with a bunch of folks at B Lab, US and Canada, no one is saying, oh, Ben's struggling with a certification, can you just push that through for him? You know, it's like no, like, no one gets special treatment, because those relationships are handled separately, which I think is also just speaks to the integrity of the assessment and why that's so important. So anyway, so you're so once you hit submit, you go into an evaluation queue, then what happens is you get an evaluation analyst who's basically just going to do a quick check to make sure that you've marked the right industry, the right company size are probably gonna have a call with you ask, you know, why do you want to be certified? Dig a little deeper to make sure that you've that you've done the assessment correctly, because what you don't want to do is get all the way into verification and find out, Oh, my goodness, we're in the wrong, we're categorized the wrong way. Or we selected the wrong industry, which is more common than you'd realize. You'd think, Oh, how could you possibly get that wrong, but it is actually an area where especially for folks, like CPG brands Sometimes might get, they can get a little gray, like, I don't know, are you in agriculture? Or are you a manufacturer or depending on what products are selling, right? So they want to make sure all of that right. Once you get through the evaluation stage, then you get, then you move on to, you'll be assigned a verification analyst, that verification analyst is going to actually go through and verify all of your, what they'll do is they'll take a subset of questions, and verify all of those. So they're going to be looking for documentation on things, they're going to be making sure that questions are answered accurately. And honestly, if you're not able to provide proof of things in those category, like in those selected questions, and you're not able to be above 80 points, after you've done that, you'll go into an improvement phase, which I think don't hold me to it. But I think it's 60 days, maybe 30 days, something like there's like a window of time where you can improve. And that without having to go back into evaluation and then continue on the verification. And then once you once you verify once the analyst has verified that you have answer everything correctly, all your documentation is there at all checks out your over 80 points, you verify you pay your annual dues to a B Lab and you join the certified B Corp club.
21:24
And then, in three years when you have to recertify is it like restarting the entire process? Or is it a different process for?
21:32
Yeah, so it's it's recertification. So you're essentially going through or through the whole thing, again, the what can be different is if you end up being randomly selected for an audit. And I've heard of folks going through that. And so when you normally certify, like I said, there's like a sub set of questions that they're going to from each impact area that they're going to really dig deep and verify on tends to be where you score your biggest points. And in the case of an audit, they're verifying every single question. So you need documentation for every single question that you answer. So it's a much more rigorous process. I don't know what the percent of businesses are that get audited. But to my knowledge, that's the only real potential difference.
22:30
Right? It seems interesting. I feel like they, like the IRS, they almost just want to have a reason to audit. And then, like 70, if you're paying into into the club, I guess, as we say, it seems weird to just like, randomly do audits. But that's besides the point. Separate question, because I've been asked this, and I don't know the answer is who is deciding to become a B Corp, and kind of working through that is like something that you need basically a bigger cause, or a bigger set of values specific to like what you are actually contributing, right, like, not a nonprofit that you're donating to or something but like, this is specifically what our purpose is separate from selling our product or service.
23:22
Yeah, so to answer your questions, the simple answer is no, you don't technically need to have like, you don't technically need to have a
23:33
save the Right. Right.
23:35
Like, you don't have to technically have to have like a very right. That being said, if you do, it does make the whole thing so much easier. You know, so I mean, one of the things that, like, as we're supporting people through their certifications, one of the first questions I ask is, like, why do you want to certify, you know, and if it's like, well, you know, you know, like, for us, like, so for Tirico, our y was we wanted to figure out how we could really leverage business as a force for good, right. And so for me, as somebody who had been in, in working in public policy and seeing how that impacts everyday people's lives, for me, it was like, Okay, we need a way to hold ourselves accountable, and to, like, measure that impact and like, and, and be held accountable, right, like, because it's really easy to say that when you care about things, it's a whole nother thing to walk the walk, right. And so for us, our y was accountability, like for ourselves, and not that we wouldn't do it otherwise, but that it's it's so easy for those intentions to be overshadowed by the laundry list of stuff you have to do every day. Right. And so I think it's really about what is your WHY I mean, if the why is, oh, well, I think I'll get more customers. Okay, maybe you it's, you know, maybe we have to dig a little deeper we have to think about like okay, and like what is it that your customers are looking for? And why do you think that this is going to help with that because As if it's just about, if it's sales only, and like you don't actually care about like any of the impact things like, it's, your your customers are going to know. And it'll be really, it'd be very challenging road to cross the finish. But like, so for us like we don't have, you know, we don't have a, I mean, we have certain organizations that we have built relationships with or that we work with. But we don't have a, you know, stake in the ground in one particular issue, the way some organizations do, like Greyston Bakery is a great example of like, they literally exist to create jobs, they make brownies for Ben and Jerry's, they're based out of Yonkers, New York, they're certified B Corp, they have a nonprofit to like, help the folks that they employ, they have this amazing hiring method called open hiring. That's literally like their mission is just to hire as many people as they can and set people up for success in in professional pathways are super cool, super, super cool. We don't have anything like that currently, at dirigo. So to answer your question, you don't need to, you don't need to be a Greyston Bakery in order to certify. And what's nice is that like, as you evolve, I mean, that's something that we're always talking about a year ago was like, How can we like what is our like, very specific lane that we can have impact in, aside from the, you know, volunteering time, and philanthropy and then just good business practice? Like, what what are some of the other things we can be doing? And so we'll continue to grow in that too. But I think that's what's so great about the assessment is it's, it's all about growth and improvement. Right.
26:37
So let's talk some of the benefits of becoming a B Corp. What, in your experience companies you've worked with, what are what are some of the things that they get to see as a as a benefit?
26:47
Yeah, I mean, I think as a for CPG brands, there's a very clear and obvious benefit. We now there was some data that recently came out that quarter, she just shared with me that roughly a little over 50% of Americans are familiar with B Corp certification and think favorably of it, right. So just having the little B Corp, certified B Corp bug on your product, certainly can help sales. So there's, there's that direct correlation there. I think for us, you know, we're in the business, the b2b space. I mean, there's, there's so many benefits. So I'm also like, the biggest B Corp nerd, right. So of course, I'm biased here. But I mean, for us, let me talk. So for me, personally, it's been amazing, just building community, right? Like, I know, when I'm in a, in a Mazda certified B Corp, like or B Corp gathering, even if not everybody, there's a sort of a B Corp, which is always the case, because there's, you know, people can't certify for various reasons, what have you whatnot. I know that I'm entering a space where people care about people and planet. And like, there's a value set there that we agree on, and that we're all pulling towards the same thing. And we want to help each other what I've heard from other CPG brands, because we also have a podcast all about B corpse is the one that comes to mind is we had the CEO of Badger Balm on and she said I would much rather compete with other B corpse on the shelf than companies that aren't values aligned. And so because of that, there are all kinds of industry specific networks. So there's like a B Corp. Marketing Network, there's a beauty network. There's you right, so for all these different industries that people might be in, there's a tourism network is a, it's a great way to connect with others in the space and really help each other out. And I will say, I have never, anytime I've needed any kind of like help, or I've had any questions about anything I've been able to reach out to virtually anyone in the B Corp space. And I mean, I have yet to have, like, reach out for help or questions from any B Corp and not have somebody be like, oh, yeah, let me help you with that. Here's, you know, here's what we think about that, right? Here's how or how, here's how we approach it. Right? So there's just so much space for collaboration. As a business it's also great because people want to work especially B corpse especially want to work with other B corpse. I know in some specific cases, you know, some people will only work with other B corpse. A good example. Patagonia, we had burrito, which they make apparel out of fish nets, so they take discarded fishing nets, take them out of the waste stream and turn them into other consumer goods right there. They make apparel for Patagonia Now they call the brims and Patagonia I'm actually wearing a pair of Brio Patagonia shorts right now. They're amazing. But one of Other things Patagonia said to, to to Berea was like, you know, we'd love to see y'all be corpse certified. Right. And I think they had a similar conversation with me or not that they had to be certified because they're doing amazing work. But like, they were strongly encouraged by Patagonia to do that. So people, organizations in this space definitely want to work with other folks that are pulling in the same direction. And a lot of certified B corpse. I wouldn't again, I don't want to I'm not speaking for everyone, right, just anecdotally, what I've heard from folks, is that if you go through all the effort and energy and you care that deeply about these values, you're probably going to want to also align your spending, and who you invest with, to also share those values, right. And so whether you're a b2b person, like like we are, or you're a CPG brand, you're still upstream in that you're still upstream in that supply chain. Right. And so it helps, I think, in in various ways in that regard. Yeah.
31:09
Well, I think it's interesting, you know, talking about like, the tighter networks and stuff, I wonder how much of that is just from shifting from a Profit First, like mentality to an impact first. And so now, yeah, profits still important, because we need that profit in order to have the impact. But if we're leading with impact, helping other companies that are trying to have an impact is only going to promote this cause. Right. So like, now we're aligned to everyone contributing to making things better? Absolutely.
31:36
Absolutely. 100%? Yeah. Awesome.
31:40
So okay, one of the questions that I've already asked you now a couple times in past conversations, but we'll bring it up for the audience. With BTC, right, very simple for people to know, like, yes, I want to spend my money here, because I know exactly, you know, the quality of goods I'm getting, but also how they're, they're treating their teams, how they're supporting the environment, things like that. And so it's very easy to take, take my money and just go spend it on that. But now when I'm buying something, in a b2b sense, right, like I'm spending the business's money to hopefully get get a result. And unfortunately, if I work with a company, that's a B Corp, and the engagement fails, right? My boss isn't going to say, Oh, well, at least you chose someone who you know, wants to save the whales. They get for example, right? What it didn't work, we just lost all this money, you're fired. There's always that that high level steak with with b2b. But so how, I guess, could a b2b company leverage this in order to to actually help? I don't want to make it sound like it's just to help sales directly? Yeah, like, if you're gonna go through the process, it should help, you know, with the visibility of your business and how its perceived on some level, which directly then help sales. And so I guess, what, what do you think for b2b companies?
33:05
Yeah, I mean, I think the other thing that's really important about the assessment, and another reason why I think it also can help people feel more comfortable doing business in a b2b space with a certified B Corp, is that a huge part of the assessment is also about the sustainability of the business. Right? You can't, you know, it's, it's kind of like if you have no profits, or you're or you're not making good business choices, and you're one you're not going to, you're unlikely to certify. But two, you're probably not going to be around for very long, right? So even if you're doing the best thing in the world, for the people and planet, that doesn't do anyone any good if you can't stick around to continue that impact, right? So that's a key component of the B impact assessment is that be labs like, okay, cool, we want to measure make sure you're doing good things for people and planet. And if you're doing good things for people and planet, we want to make sure you're doing good things as a business, to sustain yourself so that you can stick around for the next century or two so that you can continue the good work that you're doing, right. So there's a lot built in there. That's really just ensuring that there's best business practices in the business itself, and that the business itself is sound. So in that case, too, there's also it's not just about the impact that these businesses are having. But it's also about the the quality of the business. I mean, a study I know it's a little outdated since 2018. But a study in 2018 by Helio found that B corpse outperformed their category in sales growth by 3x. And, and that's, there's that speaks for itself. You know,
34:54
when it's almost like you're getting as long as people understand what a B Corp is right and the process that you have to go through. Now, it's almost like applying an extra guarantee on some level, right? Not necessarily that, hey, you're getting your money back if this fails, but like, Hey, someone else certified us and saying that we're doing the right things like it's a third party who has confidence in the way we're doing doing business. So I think that, that does speak for itself. Also, I think just on the sustainability, so if you if you are listening right now, and you are a startup, right, just getting started adopting some of these better practices, and being able to now show because startups fail all the time. And I know, as someone who has had to find vendors and find, like products and software, right, you do ask, is this? Is this going to be updated? And, you know, moving with the rest of the environment? Or is it going to be gone next year and some other company, I have to now switch to and onboard that platform, learn it, do all this work? If I knew that a company was going to be, you know, sustainably, read grown like, everything? Yeah, I'm probably going to be more apt to spend my money there. Because I know there, I remove the switching costs later. So I'm now making an investment. That's going to save more time. And so yeah, I mean, that could be huge for for startup as well. I guess let's, uh, let's start rounding this out. What advice would you have for, for a company that's just even considering becoming a B Corp?
36:30
Yeah, I would say, Well, I think there's a couple of things, I would say a couple of things. One, I would say, go check out the beamex assessment, just do a quick pass, like, can't hurt, doesn't cost anything, you know, it might take you an hour to go through it top to bottom, just super fast, like, answering what you can don't get hung up on the stuff you don't understand, or you don't know, you know, maybe bookmark it or whatever. But just just to get a sense of what's in there and see if there's any good ideas. So that's one. The other thing I would recommend, too, is looking to see if there's a be local in your area. So be locals, our organization, our groups, or, or in some cases, full blown nonprofits that are organized by local b corpse that are regionally based. So it's an opportunity. So for example, in New England, we have main B corpse, which is technically a chant, a beat champions group, we're not a nonprofit, but we organize different events and get togethers. There's below because I think all over all, they're all over. I can, I can send you a link to drop in the show notes to where people can see if they have one nearby, but go to a B local event, talk to other people say, hey, you know, what is this B Corp thing all about? Like, why did you certify? Or why are you here at this event? What are you hoping to learn? I think you'll find that people in the space even and it's and what I what I love so much about this community is it's not an exclusive community. I mean, it would be so easy to say Oh, I'm old, you know, we're only gonna let B corpse show up to this event, but that I have never seen that, in my experience. Like, even before we certified. I was going to be corporate events and people were welcoming me with open arms, like so glad you're here. So glad you're you know, on your on your journey or whatever. Right. It's a very inclusive community that really just wants to help you succeed and and have impact for the better on on people and planet. And you know, even if you don't decide to certify, like, you'll make some great friends. So definitely check out your local be local and and give the B Impact Assessment ago.
38:49
Yeah, well, I think it would almost defeat the purpose if they didn't let other people come in to see what it's right to start recruiting other companies that continuously make things better. So all right, Ben, thank you. This was you have a wealth of knowledge around B corpse. I'm sure you have knowledge on other things too. But that's obviously where we focus. I've got three more questions. Here planned. Let's let's hit him first. What book do you think everyone should read?
39:16
Oh, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh, that's so hard. I love books.
39:23
Oh gosh. I should have prepped the grading sweetgrass
39:27
by Robin wall Kimmerer for sure. is on that list. That was the first thing that popped into my head it's amazing really powerful. Check it out. The other eyes okay, the other one that's popped into my head too. And I promise I'll stop I'll try to be as concise as I can. All About Love by bell hooks. Really, I think can help. I yeah, I think can really just radically open our hearts in really beautiful ways. Awesome. Yeah. All
40:00
right. What is next for you professionally?
40:05
Oh, gosh, I mean, I don't know I think I'm, I'm, I'm, I feel pretty committed to dirigo land and I think within that realm, really just excited to continue helping businesses use business as a force for good. I know that sounds so cheesy, but I just I Yeah, it feels like the most important thing we can do.
40:29
Awesome. Finally, where can people find you?
40:33
I am on LinkedIn. And yeah, LinkedIn follow if you follow our responsibly did follow deer go collective. And the responses from podcast you can hear my voice probably more than you want to.
40:49
Perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you for joining me great conversation very much appreciate you join into it. Just shed some light on this like it. Yeah, I feel like it's something that could benefit a lot of companies who just probably don't know enough about it to even consider it an option. So hopefully we can
41:06
do that some more. Yeah, happy to anytime. Anytime, Chris. Thanks for having me on. Really, really appreciate it. appreciate all the work you're doing.
41:18
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai