Pete Wright:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships, from True Story FM. Today on the show, have you ever wanted to split your lawyer? The divorce perspective in the toaster today.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show, everyone. I'm Seth Nelson. I'm here as always with my good friend, Pete Wright. Today, we're talking to Jamie Ainsworth. Now we usually have professionals on these shows to talk about getting through the divorce process, but Pete, I looked far and wide and found someone that's been through a divorce and is willing to talk about it.
Pete Wright:
That's pretty rare in your line of work is actually finding one in the wild.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly. Now Jamie was not a client, she actually lives in the great state of Louisiana. She was with her husband for 20 plus years, married for 17. They have two children. She'll explain that to you in a little bit. We wanted to welcome Jamie Ainsworth to the toaster. Jamie, thanks for joining us.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Thank y'all. I'm actually thrilled to be considered part of the wild.
Pete Wright:
Absolutely. It's aspirational.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
This is an aspirational position.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Going to totally add that to my goal list.
Pete Wright:
All right. We've been talking about all of the supporting professionals that exist in and around the service of the legal process and the emotional process of divorce. We've never talked to anybody with the specific intention of talking to them about how all that worked in practice. We thought it would be a great opportunity to bring Jamie on the show. You, Seth, have known Jamie for a very long time, apparently, I hear.
Seth Nelson:
We've been very good friends for a very long time. I actually was at Jamie's wedding and know her former husband very well. He's a great guy, and I know Jamie, correct me if I'm wrong, but you've spoken to him and said, "Hey, I'm thinking about going on the toaster. Is that okay?"
Jamie Ainsworth:
Absolutely. One of the things we've done well is communicate. It was deserving of him having that input.
Seth Nelson:
Let's start with this question. How long did you think about a divorce before you actually verbalized it to him or to yourself, or to others, "Yeah. I'm ready to move forward."
Jamie Ainsworth:
Probably close to two years and it was verbalized to him first.
Pete Wright:
Well, you should know that in terms of toaster bingo, I think we'd said it was three years. If Seth were to be right, it would be three years, so you've just made him wrong.
Seth Nelson:
That's an average though. That's an average, Pete.
Pete Wright:
Okay. All right. For those keeping score.
Jamie Ainsworth:
And the disclaimer of, if Seth were to be right.
Pete Wright:
Nice. Yes. All right. It took you close to two years to figure it out. What's that experience like when you're climbing that particular mountain?
Jamie Ainsworth:
Oh, we could go the therapeutic route and talk self-reflection. How do you improve? A lot of times, it's just a lot of frustrating conversations before you wake up one day and go, "Holy cow, this is not where I want to be. This isn't productive for any of us." I kept going back to, I am not my best self. When I was prepared to say it out loud, it was to my husband. That's when the more soul seeking, counseling kind of process started.
Seth Nelson:
When you first say out loud to him, are you out, are you like, "I want a divorce." Or, "I'm thinking about divorce." Are you still going through that grieving process? How did that work for you?
Jamie Ainsworth:
Literally laying in bed waking up and saying, "I don't want to be married anymore." Those were the words that came out of my mouth.
Seth Nelson:
Pete, how does that hit you, happily married for 20 years, brother?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. I'm not going to lie. It gives me a great deal of anxiety. I think we're doing fine, but I want to bake a cake for my wife right now and just make sure every day is just further cementing the next morning.
Seth Nelson:
This is why, Jamie, we appreciate you having on the show. Pete has never been divorced, as I have been. I think the feelings that you're willing to share with us today are felt by many people. During my divorce, for a while I just felt like I was living someone else's life. I guess, Jamie, that's what you're saying. It's not your best self. Does that equate to you?
Jamie Ainsworth:
I, by nature, am also a thinker and a planner. I could easily be called one who over analyzes. There were a lot of thought processes that went through not only how I'm impacted, but obviously how he was impacted family, friends, children, pets, insurance, electric bills, the works. I had already processed through most of that alone. Then, doing it with him and doing it in counseling helped verbalize the things that may not have come out politely in the process, if there's such a thing, in divorce. We made every effort to be as polite to one another as possible.
Pete Wright:
When you talk about those words coming out of your mouth that morning, do you have a sense memory of what you expected and how did that differ from what you got?
Jamie Ainsworth:
That answer, because it's always a blur. That whole, I'm going to say that initial six months was a blur until we spoke to attorney, we put things in writing. The process began, the legal process began. It's an emotional blur.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
And it's a roller coaster, right Jamie? One day, you're doing better, I feel like we're on the right path or, oh, I can breathe again. Then, the next day you're choked for air.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Yes.
Seth Nelson:
And then there's, "Oh, we didn't think about this." As much of a planner and thinker that you are, things come up and we have to deviate from that plan. How do we deal with the kids? Did you jointly decide how you were going to tell the kids and how all that played out?
Jamie Ainsworth:
We did and it wasn't immediate. It was something that we discussed in counseling before we made a plan together. We have two children. One came with Brian from his first marriage, she was very young at the time, and so she's mine. People ask how many kids do you have, two. Although, Sarah is technically a stepchild once removed, if that's possible. She is a 26 year old.
Seth Nelson:
See, I get asked that question. I get asked that same question, Jamie. I answer, "It depends on how you count." And you would think I should know how many kids I have.
Jamie Ainsworth:
It's a good discussion starter.
Pete Wright:
Are you counting fence posts or the spaces? Is that what we're dealing with here?
Seth Nelson:
I have one biological child. I have one child who was my stepdaughter for a time being, because I was married to someone who, as Jamie, had a child from a previous relationship. Then, my girlfriend has two kids. The way that I describe it, I have four kids in my heart, I have one biological, I have to pay for half of one college. It actually works out very well for me. Isn't that interesting, Jamie, how you say it? You've been with this child for how many years, and legally you're no longer a step parent, but that doesn't change the bond that you have with that child or that child with you. Is that what you're telling us?
Jamie Ainsworth:
Absolutely. Absolutely. While it's easy, because we have good relationships, it is very intentional. Just because something is easy, doesn't mean it's intentional. I think those of us who have gone through divorce realize that you can do a lot of things with intention, hopefully they're with good intention, but we made mistakes. We made mistakes in marriage.
Seth Nelson:
Before we talk about your mistakes, which I would love to hear all about your mistakes, Jamie, being good friends for so long, but get back to how you told the kids and how that felt, how they responded, how you focused on them. I'm sure you were prepared, if not over prepared, if that's possible.
Jamie Ainsworth:
We did not do it at anyone's home because we didn't want that memory. We were very conscious about going to, actually, a restaurant outside that we don't normally go to, that it's not someplace they're going to go to and have memories.
Pete Wright:
Oh, that is planning ahead. I would not have thought that far ahead.
Jamie Ainsworth:
It is. I think Brian and I both come from divorced families. Some things that work well and some things that don't. Actually, that was a move that the counselor even suggested is think about their long-term mental health and where these discussions go.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. I was wondering what restaurant will you never eat at again because of how your parents told you that kind of question? What memory has been horribly disfigured in your history.
Seth Nelson:
Jamie's never going to Burger King again.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right, no, I'm done.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Evidently my parents did it okay. I don't think I'm scarred. I guess if you can go see me and twitch a little bit, no.
Seth Nelson:
You no longer are going to go to McDonald's and order a happy meal when you're going to tell your children about divorce and what's going on.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I can never be happy again.
Pete Wright:
Yeah right. It's so weird. And I hate balloons oh and fairs. I'm never going to the circus again.
Seth Nelson:
No, but that's a very good point. It's usually the idea of a neutral territory for the kids on the psychologist and mental health professionals that I've spoken with have advised you never do it in the child's bedroom or in that creepy front living room with the plastic over the furniture that no one sits in. You do it-
Pete Wright:
Are you describing a mafia hit zone?
Seth Nelson:
Come on, Pete. Didn't your grandparents have that room in the front that you're not allowed to go into because you're going to spill on the furniture and they had plastic over it?
Pete Wright:
Oh man, we come from very different places.
Seth Nelson:
You were in a log cabin somewhere, I forget. Anyway, so you don't want to be in anywhere where it's like they walk by and that's creepy or that's where it happened. Some therapists are like, "Yeah, where do they play their video games?" If it's not in their bedroom, if it's like the family room, but-
Pete Wright:
Then don't do it there?
Seth Nelson:
No, it's actually, I was going to say that's not a bad place because so many other things happen there, it's not like the one thing.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Like you're saying, the kids are never going to eat at that one restaurant Jamie went to, but it's interesting to get different points of view on what psychologists are advising.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Yep. This was January of 2019. The kids were 14 and 24. There's a substantial age gap between them. They are both very mature kids.
Pete Wright:
Do you find that that age gap, I want to poke at that a little bit. Do you find that, how has that impacted them now that you're over a year out? Do you notice any differences between how they relate to you in vis-a-vis the divorce?
Jamie Ainsworth:
I don't think it's in relationship to the divorce in the sense that the older also graduated from vet school and moved to Texas.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Jamie Ainsworth:
The distance there was coming anyway. COVID has played a whole new role in wrapping up a divorce virtually. 14 year old is under roof, and the three of us all spend still a fair amount of time together. She plays sports, she's active with social life, and we don't want to miss those things individually so we choose to do them together. There's still quality time and good quality time spent together.
Seth Nelson:
Right. It's just different. Right? When your kid's out there on the soccer field and she looks over on the sidelines, mom and dad are standing next to each other, just like they always have been.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Absolutely. In fact, I think there's some folks who see us regularly at sporting events who may not know.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. That sounds like something to maybe hang your hat on, if it was such a chill divorce that you can still do those kinds of things with one another, that's a big deal. I don't know, is that a rarity?
Seth Nelson:
Pete you've made an assumption and by chill divorce, it doesn't mean what Jamie went through was easy or there wasn't stress.
Pete Wright:
No. It's surprising, I looked up chill divorce in the Black's Law Dictionary and it actually says "Not easy, but communication was high." Is what it says.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I would agree with you. I would agree with you that chill is a great way to describe it. In lighter moments, Brian and I had conversations about, we wanted to be the poster children for if divorce had to happen, we want to be the ones who modeled it. It's not a favorite. It's not a first pick, but goodness gracious, if we're going to do it, let's be mature. Let's continue the respect we have for each other. We spent a lot of good years together. No reason to change that.
Seth Nelson:
Man, I hate it when Pete is right. I hate it when Pete is right.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Pete is right.
Seth Nelson:
I know. Pete is always right. I hear it all the time.
Pete Wright:
I can't-
Jamie Ainsworth:
Check the box.
Pete Wright:
I can't control it.
Seth Nelson:
But it takes two to do that, Jamie. You've had friends that don't have the quality of relationship that you have with Brian.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Yes. I think it took the two of us, but we were also very fortunate to have supportive friends, supportive family who could be chill sounding boards, easy sounding boards. Sometimes, folks had to look us in the face and go "Snap out of it. Get a grip."
Seth Nelson:
What do you mean by that?
Pete Wright:
Why do they need to do that?
Seth Nelson:
Yeah.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Because, in my own perspective, I won't speak for him on this, I worked so hard at wanting people to understand what was their business and be sympathetic to those reactions, overthinking again, and it was my mother that said, "This is not their divorce. Quit dealing with everybody else. Quit dealing with all the others. Deal with you. Deal with Brian. Deal with the kids."
Pete Wright:
Oh. Yeah. That's really interesting.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Get a grip. Thanks mom. Love you too. I have friends that are in the legal profession. I have friends that are great social workers and counselors. Those folks rallied to say, "Oh, look, don't do that. That's stupid." That's beneficial to hear straightforward, get a grip language, cut through the fluff, because there are other friends that I had that were the hand holding, back patting kind of friends. Then sometimes you just need friends to say-
Seth Nelson:
What she means by that, Pete, handholding, back patting, you might not know those terms. That means went to the bar and had tequila shots.
Jamie Ainsworth:
[inaudible 00:15:29] for that.
Pete Wright:
I do want to talk about splitting the social life, like that experience of splitting friends. Did that come up? Because it's something that seems to be, in difficult divorces, that's one of the things that is a challenge.
Jamie Ainsworth:
That's an ongoing challenge. We haven't resolved that. I'll come back in a year and tell you about that one.
Seth Nelson:
Jamie and team Brian that were battling when you guys were working so hard not to battle, like your mom saying don't deal with all of their other shit. Focus on your life, your kids.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
How many other people got divorced as a result of your divorce, is I think what we're asking. Just so they can stay on team Jamie or team Brian.
Jamie Ainsworth:
That hasn't happened. That hasn't happened yet, but part of our-
Seth Nelson:
It actually, Jamie, just on that point, Pete, statistically divorce happens in clusters.
Pete Wright:
I'm right-
Seth Nelson:
Again.
Pete Wright:
Again?
Seth Nelson:
Again. Twice in one show.
Pete Wright:
Seth, bring it. Tell me more.
Seth Nelson:
Divorce, it's not uncommon, in fact, it is common where I say clusters, where you have a friend that gets divorced and within that group of friends, it will start to happen.
Pete Wright:
Wow.
Seth Nelson:
From a total sociology perspective.
Pete Wright:
You just need somebody in a community to break the seal.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Right. Break the ice.
Pete Wright:
And know that it's okay.
Seth Nelson:
Yep.
Pete Wright:
That's a little bit grim for me.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. That's why I have no married friends. They're like that shit happens in clusters. Seth got divorced, stay away.
Pete Wright:
He's contagious. He's got divorce.
Seth Nelson:
Jamie, how is it-
Pete Wright:
That's fascinating.
Seth Nelson:
When you're out with your married friends? Do you feel like a third wheel? I know we're in COVID times.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I was going to say, do people go out anymore?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, no, people don't go out.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I haven't had those experiences yet, in total honesty. Our divorce was final in May of '20. No one has had a social life since.
Seth Nelson:
Now, not to disparage the great state of Louisiana, and this is always why I say check your local-
Pete Wright:
Check your local jurisdiction.
Seth Nelson:
Jurisdiction. Pete's favorite words out of my mouth, Jamie. In the great state of Florida, if you want to get divorced in Florida, you just have to be a resident of Florida for six months before you file. Once you file, I can get you divorced in 21 days. That's the quickest I can do it without getting leave of the court to do it quicker. Because if you have a whole agreement, Pete, all the money's worked out, all the kid stuff, uncontested divorce, you file it, you can go in front of a judge 21 days later and get divorced. Jamie, how long in the great state of Louisiana?
Jamie Ainsworth:
364 days.
Pete Wright:
Wow. That's almost all the days.
Jamie Ainsworth:
All the days. That's from the filing. There's the pre-filing work that still has to lead up to that. We sat and waited more than we were active in negotiation.
Seth Nelson:
What other people have told me, Pete, is in some States like Louisiana where you have to wait that long, once you file, it prolongs the fighting. That wasn't the case for Jamie, thankfully.
Jamie Ainsworth:
It wasn't. It wasn't. We were unique in the sense that I hired the attorney, Brian did not contest it, and we shared her legal services, but check your local jurisdiction.
Seth Nelson:
Oh, see, Jamie's picking up on my language right there.
Pete Wright:
I know. She's so good. Is that an okay thing to do, Seth Nelson-esquire.
Seth Nelson:
Not in the great state of Florida.
Pete Wright:
I didn't think so.
Seth Nelson:
It is-
Jamie Ainsworth:
Is it allowed?
Seth Nelson:
It is a conflict of interest. I can only represent one party in a divorce.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I think technically our attorney only could represent me. Since we came to the table in full agreement, she was able to process the work. He was able to show up at her office to sign. I think technically, by law, she only represented me.
Pete Wright:
He may have been technically representing himself.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I-
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. That was the air quotes. That's probably, my gut tells me that's probably what happened. I'm very cautious when it comes to this area, because I don't want the other party to think that I represent them. They will have to sign, I represent your wife, I only represent Jamie, my allegiance and loyalty and duties run to her. I can totally screw you out of everything. On and on. I, in my practice, would not ever have an opposing party come to my office to sign. I'm that cautious about it. Now, other lawyers that I know are like, "Yeah, no, it's fine. We send it to them. It's no big deal." I'm just very cautious because I don't want to even give the perception.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I don't recall any signed agreements, but I do recall her on a few occasions repeating who she's hired by. It really wasn't controversial.
Pete Wright:
That is an area of pain for a lot of people. I think that the anxiety around working with an attorney, hiring an attorney, the cost of an attorney, going into the divorce process, how much of that stuff impacted you and Brian?
Jamie Ainsworth:
I think we were very fortunate in it didn't. We both knew this attorney in town by reputation. I, in fact, told him that's who I was seeing before I went to see her. That is not the experience that I have heard anecdotally from other folks going through the process.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I think as going through the process, the questions that I was prepared to ask the attorney, I had a long list of them, it included things philosophical.
Seth Nelson:
Oh lawyers love those questions.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I know, but I wanted to know who was going to represent me and my interests because I'm not an attorney.
Seth Nelson:
That's not a philosophical question for us lawyers. That's just who's your client.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Literally in law school, they have this thing on when does the attorney client relationship begin? You should know that when you're talking to a lawyer, check your local jurisdiction. In the great state of Florida, it's when the client believes it begins. Someone calls me on the phone and they say, "Hey, can I talk to you about my divorce?" I say, "Yes." It's all attorney client privilege. They believe that's when it started. This is how they teach it in law school. I'm sitting at my desk, pretend I'm sitting at my desk here in my office. You all know I'm a divorce attorney. A guy runs in with blood on his hands and he says, "I killed her. Will you represent me?" I'm like, "I'm a divorce lawyer. Wrong door."
Seth Nelson:
Now, can I be called to testify against this guy that just admitted that he committed a murder? He invokes the attorney client privilege. The other side says, "No, he never met Seth before. He didn't sign a retainer agreement. He didn't pay him any money. They ask the guy, "Did you think he was a lawyer?" "I knew he was a lawyer." "How'd you know?" "I saw 'attorney at law' right on his door, and I went in there and I thought I need help from a lawyer and I thought everything was attorney client privilege and I talked to my lawyer." If he believed that I was his lawyer and I was going to represent him, attorney client privilege. I can't testify against him.
Pete Wright:
Is that a jurisdiction thing or is that just lawyers?
Seth Nelson:
You always have to check your local jurisdiction, because all of when the attorney client relationship start is usually governed under state law. Yeah, it's when the client believes it to be. Literally, we run conflict checks because if someone calls me, I take down their name, I take down their spouse's name. I make sure that I haven't talked to the spouse, or anyone in my law practice hasn't talked to the spouse. If they have, I just say, "Sorry, I can't represent you or continue this conversation." "Why is that?" "I'm sorry. I can't share that with you. There's a conflict."
Pete Wright:
Wow. This is great news. I need to go back to figure out when Seth and I met, because I may in the future have needed an attorney in the past and you're it man.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Everything you've done or will do is now Seth's responsibility.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, no, I now believe. I believe.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. There's a problem with that, Pete, is your wife's had to be on retainer for a long time brother.
Pete Wright:
Oh nuts. That's amazing. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Jamie, back to that, I'm sure, I know Brian very well, he's a smart guy. He knew that she was representing you and not him.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Yes. Again, this wasn't normal from the way I understand divorces. He and I talked through every step. When it was time for disclosure, we made the lists together. We bounced off of, okay, what about this? What about your retirement? What about ... We did our best to write some sort of an agreement before we took it to the attorney, because our time was cheaper than hers. Sorry.
Seth Nelson:
I am all for this. I am a hundred percent for people saying this is the way that we want to do things. If Jamie would have come to me with that agreement in Florida, my job then as the lawyer is to not get in the way. My job is to say, "Jamie, under Florida family law, you would be entitled to X. Brian would be entitled to Y. This is how it all plays out." No matter what your agreement is, as long as you have that information and you understand you may be giving up the farm, you may be getting more of the farm, you may be doing one thing that the court would do, but not another, that's okay as long as you're making an informed decision, because it's the client's decision.
Seth Nelson:
It's not my job to tell Jamie, "Oh no, we're not doing that." That's absolutely not my job. My job is to say, "Here's what the law is. Here are your choices. You've made your choices. Now, do you understand?" "Yes." "Do you still want to go forward with that choice that you've made a handshake deal on? It's not written, it's not enforceable at this time." "Yes I do." Then we proceed through that.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I think that was our experience. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Jamie, what are some things that were easy, maybe I have to put that in air quotes, and some things that were just really hard or unexpected that you didn't know you would think about or feel.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I think you alluded to it in the beginning. It depended on the day, because I still take the trash to the road and go, "It'd be nice if he were here doing that." I still have those thoughts. Sitting down to eat when your teenager is running the roads and you're eating alone. You think, "Ah. Alone." Now, I think my perspective is to reframe it in alone isn't so bad and it's very different from lonely. In COVID, I've embraced the alone. I found I could be anti-social after all. What's easy and what's been hard. How you've impacted other people with your choices. It circles back to a friend group. We both had separate married lives and then a together married life. The separateness just continued on.
Jamie Ainsworth:
The group that we shared, the group that we would vacation with, that we've been to each other's weddings, seen children be born, new pets come into the family, the whole nine. Those are the folks where some days there are tendencies of side taking. It's not intentional, because I think all of these are good people who truly want the best for both of us, but we're human. We all have this selfish need to say, "Y'all's divorce is going to affect our vacation."
Seth Nelson:
That's a good point. So many people, we've talked about this before, Pete, is when you tell them, their knee jerk reaction is "How does this impact me?"
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Like your mom said, Jamie, deal with your stuff, not their stuff.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Right. We'll come full circle because we'll deal with it as we meet other folks, as we bring other people into those group relationships, we're going to have to do more processing in the future. I have one friend in particular who has been very point blank, she says, "I'm not ready yet. I'm not ready to meet new folks. I'm still processing this. I know you're happier, but I'm not ready yet." About either one of us dating.
Pete Wright:
She's still processing your divorce?
Jamie Ainsworth:
Yeah. She's not ready for either one of us to have a separate relationship that's not us.
Pete Wright:
That was on the list of our potential questions for you. Is, I know this is still fairly recent in geological terms, but how has your divorce made you rethink future relationships?
Jamie Ainsworth:
Oh, that's a big one. I have learned a lot from divorce. Some of it came through counseling. Some of it comes from the ongoing conversations that we have driving out of town to a soccer game and we spend an hour in the car together alone. There's great processing time. I think we've continued to make apologies to each other, but the conversations over time have driven more towards what we would do differently. Would we discuss money differently in a newer relationship as 50 somethings, speaking of geological timeframes.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. I'll I'm thinking now is prenup.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Very possibly. I'm nowhere near that discussion, but will I have more forthcoming conversations about money, previous spouse relationships, there's those things. I'm more self-reflective of what's important to me and I regret not vocalizing that in our marriage. I think I was better at it through the divorce. I know I'm better at it now. You lose yourself along the way when you don't speak up, I've learned. Oh, speak up.
Pete Wright:
As we get toward wrapping up here, just a couple of practical questions. How would you characterize, for those listening who may be considering a divorce themselves, the scope of detail that you had to keep in the air at any given time?
Jamie Ainsworth:
Oh, Seth is going to roll his eyes, but I have a spreadsheet for everything.
Seth Nelson:
Remember we had someone that said spreadsheet was a love language?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Spreadsheets, spreadsheets, spreadsheets.
Seth Nelson:
That is Jamie Ainsworth right there.
Pete Wright:
There you go.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I really enjoy my lists. Sometimes, it's a downfall because the people around me and who live with me have to understand that there's a list.
Pete Wright:
Yeah and you may or may not be on it at any given moment.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Exactly.
Seth Nelson:
I will share this. This is a very-
Jamie Ainsworth:
I juggled a fair amount of detail.
Seth Nelson:
This is a very quick story. I dated a woman when I was in my early twenties and I went to visit her family. Sat down, met the dad, had a beer, sat in the same chair. They said, "Oh, sit here." I sat there in the living room. Next day, go down, sit down, have a beer, sit in this chair. Across on the sofa, there was a throw pillow that was not there the day before. It was a list. It had my girlfriend's name and it said her name. It said "She loves Steve." With a line red stitched through it. "John." With a line red stitched through it. "Al." With a line stitched through it. Then, "Seth." No line, yet. Talk about the ultimate list.
Pete Wright:
Wow. What? Seth?
Seth Nelson:
Scarred me for life. Became a divorce attorney.
Jamie Ainsworth:
That's what's been wrong with you, ever since.
Pete Wright:
It was a throw pillow. Did it happen to be on a Visqueen covered couch at any point in time?
Seth Nelson:
How did you know, Pete?
Jamie Ainsworth:
Thank you, Pete.
Pete Wright:
Oh my goodness.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Thank you for going there.
Seth Nelson:
Is this where we now tell everyone that I dated your sister in my early 20s?
Pete Wright:
Okay. Okay. A lot of detail. Love the spreadsheet. What other experts outside of your attorney did you call on? You've already mentioned your, you were working with a counselor, a therapist of some sort. Anybody else who was on your team?
Jamie Ainsworth:
Friends and family.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Some came with divorce experience. Some came with legal experience. Some came with social work experience. Some are teachers, educators in a faith-based profession. I have to reflect upon the fact that everybody has something to offer, but if you're not prepared to delineate what's valuable to you and your decisions, you can prematurely ask for help. If that makes sense.
Seth Nelson:
That's a good point.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Everybody has an opinion.
Seth Nelson:
Right. If I hear what you're saying, Jamie, if you're going to ask for the opinion, then you get to accept it or not, or you can take a piece of it or not. That's also true, even when you don't ask for their opinion, because they might give it anyway. Just because they're giving it doesn't mean you have to take it.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Absolutely. Don't ask if you really don't want to know.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
What, if anything, was easy?
Jamie Ainsworth:
Well, it's all relative. My quick answer is nothing is easy, but being prepared, having an open conversation, having professionals that you trust made the process way easier than it could have been. Although, I would never define any of it as easy.
Seth Nelson:
You got to go through it. You can't go around it, over it, under it.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
You got to go through it. You sound like you're doing well now, though.
Jamie Ainsworth:
It's a new opportunity. There are rough days and there are more good days than rough. We look at it as growth potential. We both do. We remind each other of that.
Pete Wright:
One, you've gilded a cage of luckiness with hard work and diligence and open communication. That's to your credit, to both of you. Thank you so much, Jamie, for coming to the show and sharing your experience. It means a lot to us and to listeners to hear that sort of vulnerability. We really appreciate that.
Jamie Ainsworth:
Absolutely. I thank you all for letting me get out of my comfort zone. This is not something that I would normally sign myself up for. Thanks for making it easy.
Seth Nelson:
The only thing easy was coming on the toaster.
Jamie Ainsworth:
You're so chill.
Pete Wright:
The toaster is so chill. Did you hear that Seth Nelson?
Seth Nelson:
I heard it.
Pete Wright:
Blacks Law Dictionary.
Seth Nelson:
You have to send your buddy a bottle of wine. I think Jamie's got a nice bottle or something going out to Louisiana.
Pete Wright:
Something's coming. Something's coming.
Seth Nelson:
Jamie, thanks for taking the time. I know this wasn't necessarily easy, but I also know you want to share and help others. I've known that about you for a very long time. Give our best to Brian as well.
Jamie Ainsworth:
I will. Thank you guys.
Pete Wright:
Thank you everybody for downloading and listening to this show. We certainly appreciate your time and your attention. On behalf of Jamie Ainsworth and Seth Nelson, I'm Pete Wright. We'll catch you next week right here on How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships.
Speaker 4:
Seth Nelson is an attorney with Nelson Koster Family Law and Mediation, with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to, nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of Nelson Koster. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
This transcript was exported on Feb 13, 2021 - view latest version here.
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