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Work like you’re not a parent.
Parent like you don’t work.
What if that whole system is wrong?
This is Full Stack Moms, and we are Mallory Lee and Shannon Curran, two working moms navigating tech careers, parenting, and everything in between. We talk about why the traditional rules of work don’t fit modern parents and how women in tech are doing things differently. Through honest conversations and behind-the-scenes stories, this show explores careers, caregiving, ambition, and the messy reality of having it all, just not all at once.
Connect with Mallory: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mallorylee/
Connect with Shannon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannon-sweeny-curran/
Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius
www.shareyourgenius.com
[00:00:00] Amber Williams: My confidence was really took a big hit postpartum and it's taken a few years for me to realize the mental effect of going back to work after being a first time mom and some of the things that I compromised to to. Fit in or make it seem like maybe I wasn't breastfeeding in the middle of the day when I clearly was and needed to.
[00:00:25] Amber Williams: It took a big toll on my mental health, sort of just like the corporate environment that I was in, coupled with me being overly accommodating to others' expectations of just like who, who I am, which is not really my personality, and it ended up just not being a good fit.
[00:00:45] Shannon Curran: This is Full Stack Moms. This is not a parenting podcast nor a business podcast, but a place where we talk building careers in tech, raising kids at home, and making it work in public.
[00:00:57] Mallory Lee: Amber, so great to have you.
[00:00:59] Amber Williams: Hey, thank you so much for having me. I am super excited and I'm a huge fan of a lot. Love you. So, yes,
[00:01:09] Mallory Lee: lightning round. Please tell us about your family and your life and your house and all of those fun facts up front.
[00:01:16] Amber Williams: So I live in Atlanta. I'm 34 and I grew up in the south my whole life.
[00:01:21] Amber Williams: I have one kid, he's three and my spouse and I live in Atlanta, and we have a nice, you know, bought my first house a couple years ago. And we've been here for, yeah, a couple years. I really love it. Before this, I was in Asheville, North Carolina for about 15 years, so I finished high school there. I went to college there, started my career there and I was like, get me the Frick outta here.
[00:01:47] Amber Williams: Um, and I came to. Cool.
[00:01:50] Mallory Lee: Okay. Okay. And I met you because of work slash LinkedIn slash HubSpot community, is that right? Definitely
[00:02:02] Amber Williams: LinkedIn, Mallory. I mean, you're, you're famous. You're like the rev op, rev ops person. I remember being in an interview a few years ago and the CMO who was interviewing me, like mentioned you and I was like.
[00:02:17] Amber Williams: As like the pinnacle of like badassness fair. Like, do you like Mallory? I like Mallory. Oh my gosh. Now she's like, oh shit. So I was like, yes, I do follow her already. Okay. I'm good. Oh, that's good taste.
[00:02:31] Shannon Curran: That is good taste. That's.
[00:02:33] Mallory Lee: That's truly kind of embarrassing, but thank you.
[00:02:36] Amber Williams: No, it was actually like a, it was like a content centered sort of rev ops role, so it was really different.
[00:02:42] Amber Williams: But the CMO was referencing like your thought leadership as something that's like, look, this is the kind of thing we're going for here. Aw. Yeah. No, I think we've just been follow other for a while. Tried to, I, I've been trying to ramp it up, so
[00:02:58] Mallory Lee: I think it's work. Yeah. And now you're a founder, you're a badass founder.
[00:03:01] Mallory Lee: Tell us about that.
[00:03:03] Amber Williams: Yeah, so love to get into the career story and, and motherhood and all of that. I am a co-founder at Passetto. And I came in through really an acquihire about a year ago. I was doing some con, not consulting as much as like productized revenue, operations service, kind of fractional, kind of, um, really just like a productized service.
[00:03:26] Amber Williams: So I was having a lot of scary fun with that. And then I got picked up and I was. Hmm. I have to weigh the pros and cons of this, but so far a year in, it's been super worth it and it's really fun to have like that startup level team. So I'm the head of revenue operations there. And then I also serve as the Chief Revenue Officer, being that I do like sales and I help with our, you know, positioning and our offers and stuff like that, which you don't really get to do like all of that stuff unless you kind of are in a startup or, you know, you do your own thing.
[00:04:00] Amber Williams: So it's been really fun.
[00:04:02] Mallory Lee: That sounds a little bit similar to you, Shannon, like
[00:04:05] Shannon Curran: Yeah,
[00:04:05] Mallory Lee: obviously. You are doing your own positioning and, and all of your own stuff, but you also evolved to a more productized offering over the course of your first year. And a, it's gotta be the right move, I think, you know, like easier to describe and sell and position and have your niche and all of those things.
[00:04:26] Shannon Curran: Yeah. I, it's, I don't know if my business coaches listen to this podcast, but they, uh, they helped me go from completely custom scope every time to. I call it standardized, so it's not totally productized because for me, I'm a fractional CMO Amber, so like once I get in, I have three like clear phases with all the startups that I work with, but they're always slightly different and always take a certain, like a different amount of time.
[00:04:50] Shannon Curran: So I, I, you know, so it's a little less totally productized. But yeah, I had to get more consistent of like, what the heck are you buying when you buy? The Shannon Special. You know what I mean? Like you gotta know what it is.
[00:05:01] Amber Williams: Yeah. I just, I feel like Shannon made it easier listening to you say that. I'm like, I know who you're talking about.
[00:05:08] Amber Williams: Can we give them a shout out? 'cause they were my business coaches too. They were, do you work with Nick and Erica? Yes.
[00:05:14] Shannon Curran: Oh my God, I didn't know that.
[00:05:17] Amber Williams: Let's give shout out to the duo. Yeah, let's give duo some flowers because they are helping so many people and I think it's so underrated. Yeah. From my perspective as a woman to have a coach in general, I've had coaches for like 10 years, but at the point in my business when I was on my own.
[00:05:35] Amber Williams: I was fricking like floundering and so bad, and ended up working with them. And Nick specifically really helped me turn it around to the extent that I was like, oh my God, I'm making way more money than I was making in-house. And then all of a sudden, boom got acquired. So it really just. It was like so many, just so many amazing things from them, but it's so underrated to actually ask for help in general.
[00:06:03] Amber Williams: So I think it's good to give, give a shout out for that. Wait, this is,
[00:06:07] Shannon Curran: I lo, I did not know this Amber, but they, I came, neither did I. So this is actually motherhood related. I came back from my. Maternity leave. I didn't take one with my second. I was, I took a client back at five weeks and I had this one client through the summer and then I was like, I think I need to like cut the shit and like figure out what the hell I'm doing here because I can't waste time like having 18 discovery calls with a client anymore, right?
[00:06:33] Shannon Curran: Like mm-hmm. I like a potential client giving away so much time for free, like just being really unclear, like taking all this time to create all these proposals. And I actually went to, so I'd been on Nick's podcast a thousand Routes and I had talked to him about. Out the solopreneur journey, right? And I was like, oh, this guy does offer creation.
[00:06:51] Shannon Curran: That was like his positioning at the time. And so I actually didn't even think that I was getting a coach because I think this is an interesting. It's a really hard field, especially when you're, I think this is true for when you're going through like a motherhood career journey is like, you're very skeptical.
[00:07:08] Shannon Curran: I was very skeptical of where I was getting advice. It's scary, right? Like you're, like, I, yeah, like I need help, I need guidance, but like, there's a lot of like charlatans in the coaching space, right? Like, and it's expensive. It's not cheap, right? 'cause they provide a service like you should, so. Yeah. But I will say, yeah, it's fundamentally changed my business.
[00:07:28] Shannon Curran: And I think also, like I joke that there's never a coaching call on that. I don't talk about my kids. And even like in our Slack last night, I got a slack from Nick at like 9:00 PM that said, how's your mental health this week? And I was like, funny enough, so bad, so bad. How did you know you're right
[00:07:48] Mallory Lee: on time?
[00:07:49] Mallory Lee: It's a terrible week.
[00:07:50] Shannon Curran: He is like, he is like, I had a feeling. I was like, how? Like, and so I think, yeah. Amber, that's amazing. I think, I didn't realize that we worked with the, the same folks, but Yeah. Yeah. So. Can you explain to me the acquisition process of your business? Uh, this is now just me. Yeah.
[00:08:04] Amber Williams: Interesting. So, here's how my career went, has gotten so far. Okay. So I was really a startup, startup kid. Even in college. I just like wanted to do startup stuff, but I went to school for evolutionary biology. Okay. So I get into like tech somehow kind of teach myself back in like the 2010 how to like make websites and stuff on whatever.
[00:08:24] Amber Williams: Scrappy. Love it. Yeah.
[00:08:25] Mallory Lee: Nice.
[00:08:26] Amber Williams: So I just ended up doing operations. So then I really get into, you know. Startups a little bit more, and then I get recruited into revenue operations and I'm like, this is scary as shit because the word revenue is in the title and I don't know what that is. I didn't know it's
[00:08:43] Shannon Curran: report It.
[00:08:44] Amber Williams: Yes. I was like all of a sudden reporting to A CRO. I was like, I don't know what you are. I don't know anything about sales. Like I knew a little bit about marketing because. I'm very creative, right. Shannon, you're a dancer. I'm a dancer. Uh, yes. Oh my God. Check. But marketing felt like a little more. Fun, but sales just felt very intimidating.
[00:09:08] Amber Williams: So fumbled around that role for like a few months. Didn't really know. Yeah. Didn't really know what to do. I was kind of just falling, like whatever HubSpot would publish, I would be like, okay, that's what you do. Right.
[00:09:21] Shannon Curran: Not a bad place to go, you know, of all places. You know what I mean? I,
[00:09:24] Mallory Lee: golden era, golden era of thought leaders right there.
[00:09:28] Amber Williams: 20 18, 20 it bounce certification. Yeah. Like, oh yeah. Just get certified. Do what HubSpot says. So that's how I kind of learned Then. I started learning though, around that time I started going on LinkedIn. And so where are the big thought leaders around revenue operations and kind of go to market? Well, Chris Walker and Refine Labs, they were crushing it.
[00:09:51] Amber Williams: They were everywhere. And they gave out so much content, so much information. Mm-hmm. And so I just started using that as kind of like my Bible and I basically built my skillset around like. I don't know what to do. There are so many things you can do in operations, but it doesn't seem like the CRO really cares about half that stuff.
[00:10:12] Amber Williams: So let me just focus on this, like revenue stuff. So I ended up specializing through that in sort of like the, the lead to cash kind of process and like tracking, you know, revenue. That's kind of my thing. And, um, yeah, then I got in that role, got pregnant, didn't tell my employer that I was pregnant for like four months, five months.
[00:10:33] Amber Williams: I was remote, so I got away with it. I was so nervous to tell them. Got laid off. Oh. When I was like five months pregnant. So you just soon after?
[00:10:44] Mallory Lee: Yeah. What's the
[00:10:45] Amber Williams: I didn't tell them ever. Oh. My employer never knew that I was pregnant. They know now, I think, but I see.
[00:10:55] Shannon Curran: She can't even be like, this is, this is discrimination.
[00:10:58] Shannon Curran: 'cause they didn't even know.
[00:11:00] Amber Williams: They didn't know. Nice. So I was like the, you know, main income for our house, right? I was like five months pregnant, laid off. It was like the start of a lot of the layoffs in like, you know, 20, 21. So it took me like five months to get a job. So I was like. Almost having a baby by the time I got a job.
[00:11:20] Amber Williams: But this is where I think having a baby is really, um, good luck for me and it actually accelerates things in my life that need to happen because I had gotten laid off, I was already working with a career coach at the time, and we had like planned like, hey. Not really happy with sort of like the salary band, you know, that I'm in and feel like, you know, the, you know, job titles when you're working in a startup, it's like your job title doesn't matter 'cause you're just doing, you get so much other experience and stuff like that.
[00:11:54] Amber Williams: And I was like, that's cool, but I think I could be making a lot more money. So anyway, in the process of getting laid off and then fighting my next role, my income doubled.
[00:12:06] Mallory Lee: Because you were consulting?
[00:12:08] Amber Williams: No, because my next role, I worked with my coach at that time to position myself and my skills in a better way to be able to get a higher paying role.
[00:12:19] Amber Williams: So I'm like, no, it's good for you. Check. That worked out. Yeah.
[00:12:24] Shannon Curran: And then you started this job, like right before you were gonna have a baby, right? So they hired you eight months pregnant.
[00:12:30] Amber Williams: Yeah. And my boss was awesome, very accommodating. And they, and they knew, they knew. She's like, Hey. So I pulled me out for a little bit.
[00:12:39] Amber Williams: They, they, they had sent me the offer and I was like, this is great. I'm gonna be making so much more money. Awesome. And then I was on the phone with my coach and I was like, I really don't wanna tell them that I'm pregnant. And she was like, you have to tell them now is the time to tell them. Mm-hmm. So
[00:12:58] Shannon Curran: I was like, okay.
[00:12:58] Shannon Curran: She got the offer and then you told them So they loved you already, so they, yeah. Yes. So it would've been very obvious if, if they were sent to the offer it was because you were pregnant.
[00:13:07] Amber Williams: Right. But they were like, that's fine. Ended up continuing to study, you know, the same stuff, right. So it all kind of is funny the way it works out.
[00:13:17] Amber Williams: But that was rough because coming into really like needing to really, you know, I kind of ramped up, I had almost 90 days to ramp up into my role before I went on leave, but the leave was not paid. And two months long. So it was good. I was grateful for it. They ended up accidentally paying me and so I had to like tell them that they accidentally paid me during leave and like give the money back.
[00:13:47] Amber Williams: But that was fine, startups. But then going back into it, I think that. My confidence was really took a big hit postpartum and it's taken a few years for me to realize the mental effect of going back to work after being a first time mom and some of the things that I compromised to try to. Fit in or make it seem like maybe I wasn't breastfeeding in the middle of the day when I clearly was and needed to.
[00:14:18] Amber Williams: It took a big toll on my mental health, sort of just like the corporate environment that I was in, coupled with me being overly accommodating to others' expectations of just like who, who I am, which is not really my personality. And it ended up just not being a good fit. So it was like a year and a half in, got laid off again right after I had just bought my first house.
[00:14:47] Amber Williams: And moved my family to the city, so that sucked.
[00:14:49] Shannon Curran: That's not how it always goes though. It's always something big that happens. It's like things happen in
[00:14:55] Mallory Lee: bursts all the time. Clusters of, yeah.
[00:14:59] Amber Williams: But as it often is, and not always with getting laid off, right. But often you kind of know that it's coming and if you're being honest, you can forecast.
[00:15:08] Amber Williams: What's happening, but I think so much, so often, like with me at the time, I was so like locked into like fear of not wanting to lose the role. Mm-hmm. And all of the news around tech and, and layoffs is, can be very scary. So I was really clinging on versus now I'm trying to be better at letting things happen and being accepting.
[00:15:33] Amber Williams: Of how things can shift for the better. Like you said, Shannon so laid off, ended up really not having good luck that year in the job market either. So I was like looking at my vision board, you know, where I had put prior to being laid off. I'm gonna start a business and I'm gonna put a date on it, right?
[00:15:52] Amber Williams: In five years.
[00:15:58] Shannon Curran: What did you do? Looks like five years is today, so looks like we are. Did you really
[00:16:03] Shannon Curran: give yourself five years
[00:16:05] Mallory Lee: time's up?
[00:16:05] Shannon Curran: I said within the next five years, I think I probably wanna be a consultant when I have multiple kids. So this is when I had one five month old. I said, when I have multiple kids, they have lots of stuff going on with school.
[00:16:16] Shannon Curran: I want to have more flexibility, but I'm gonna grind for the next five years to get myself like in a place where I feel like I like deserve. To be able to start my own business. And then I was like, looks like that day is, I didn't get laid off, but I just was feeling so misaligned to like the. Situation that I was in came back after a maternity leave to my VP of marketing role, and the company had just changed a lot.
[00:16:40] Shannon Curran: And I, I, they were wonderful to me. They wanted me there. They wanted me to, so the company that I met, Mallory was one of our customers and the founder's amazing. He's a great guy. Uh, it just was like, I don't think this is working. This is not gonna align to like where my ambition is and also where I want my time spent.
[00:16:57] Shannon Curran: And so that's why my mantra at that time was, babies make you brave. I was like, looking at my son like. I would rather try this out and spend more time with him, you know? And like we were in a financial situation where that was okay. I had a similar scenario of like. Had been able to really increase my salary between like the 2020 to 2021, like when there was a big boom.
[00:17:18] Shannon Curran: I feel like that happened to a lot of people. It's funny, that job where I really increased my salary is the one where I got laid off as well. 'cause that I think everyone realized they were overpaying for talent. But uh, but it was my new benchmark, right? Yeah, exactly. My new benchmark. And I, I luckily never, I never slipped back, which is great.
[00:17:33] Shannon Curran: But yeah, I had a similar, it's funny I said the same thing five years. I think people love to say. Five years. Five years. What is five years? What is five years? I've never had a five year plan in my life. I have no patience for that. So I,
[00:17:44] Amber Williams: right. It's not even about the fact that five years for me, it's about like when you write it down.
[00:17:50] Amber Williams: Like, okay, you better know what you want. Because for me, when I write something down and I say that I want something and I, you know, put it out there, it happens. And it doesn't always happen the way I think it's gonna happen, but generally it happens. So I was like, okay, it's happening now. And it's like you said, Shannon, I look at my son.
[00:18:11] Amber Williams: And I think, what story do I do? I wanna tell him in, you know, 10 years, what story do I want him to see me living? Do I want him to see me living in this like. Stressed out, you know, getting a job just because maybe accepting a, you know, a lot less than I know that I want just to get a job and struggling, you know, mentally in an environment that I don't want to be in, or do I want him to see me struggling.
[00:18:43] Amber Williams: To sell and struggling and growing and doing something that's scary for me and doing something that's gonna grow myself. And like you said, babies make you brave. So it really gave me a lot of confidence to have, have him. It's kind of like you kind. Your feet are on the fire, so you gotta do something.
[00:19:04] Amber Williams: But I think there's two different ways you could go. You can retreat and make yourself small and feel like a victim. And in the span of an hour, sometimes I do that too. And or you can or you can say, I'm not gonna be a victim. I am in control of what happens to me and I'm just gonna move forward. So that's what I did, and it was really a hard year.
[00:19:27] Amber Williams: I almost lost my house and then the business started picking up for me when I, when I asked for help. It started picking up when I started doing the things that were scariest, like selling and prospecting and putting myself in the you like you really know. There's only a couple things that you need to do at any point in time, but oftentimes the most scariest ones we avoid.
[00:19:49] Amber Williams: And so putting myself in that, okay, well this is what I'm avoiding that I need to do, this first helped a lot, and then I ended up building a business and positioning myself in a way that it was attractive. And sort of just like an obvious thing to, you know, the team at Passetto who I'm like, dude, like I wouldn't even, I don't even know if I would have a career if it weren't for being able to sort of follow this thought leadership for the last five or six years.
[00:20:15] Amber Williams: So, yeah, that, that makes sense. Let's, you know, let's join up. So that's what happened.
[00:20:21] Mallory Lee: And the thing that we probably should clarify for people is that it came full circle because the people you followed so closely, which was Chris and Refine Labs, are the same people that founded Poto where Poto acquired you.
[00:20:37] Mallory Lee: Yes. So that was like for people who aren't familiar with that company, that's the full circle kind of moment there, which I think is so cool.
[00:20:45] Amber Williams: Yeah, thanks. It is cool. And it's also like, hey. It's never done. You know, you're always, yeah, always growing, but. It's been crazy. Um, it's been crazy to like realize like, oh, you can have what you want.
[00:21:00] Amber Williams: And that's another thing that I feel like the whole idiom about. Some people like it, some people don't. But as a mom, like you can have it all, but not all at once. I don't agree with that. I think it just a reframe for me because I think that if you're really clear about what it is that you do want and not clouding.
[00:21:20] Amber Williams: Like when I, when I dCloud or declutter my vision from what I think other people might want of me or what I expect myself to do, there's really not that much. That I really want, so I can have it all, all at once. It could be at different, you know, levels I guess. Um, yeah,
[00:21:39] Shannon Curran: not at a hundred percent all the time.
[00:21:41] Shannon Curran: Yeah, I think that's probably, yeah, that's the way I think about it too.
[00:21:44] Mallory Lee: Yeah, it's a good point though, Amber, like the having it all, is it the stuff that you wanna have for yourself or is it the stuff that you think everyone else wants you to be able to do and have?
[00:21:55] Shannon Curran: Yeah.
[00:21:57] Mallory Lee: Interesting.
[00:21:58] Shannon Curran: Amber, do you do Chris's encoded journaling?
[00:22:01] Shannon Curran: Do you do like all of, do you do that work?
[00:22:04] Amber Williams: Yeah, I do. And it's been really helpful, um, the app as well, so it's kind of like a reflection of what's been going on inside. Just
[00:22:13] Shannon Curran: laughing. I'm like literally looking at it right now. Yay. Oh, look at you. I know. I just, I just had a moment where I was much more
[00:22:20] Mallory Lee: in common than I realized.
[00:22:22] Shannon Curran: I know. I looked to the left and was like, wait a minute. I was like, I like, yeah. It was really helpful to me too, to recenter myself around like, what the heck I care about. And like, and what freedom really looks like. Like I think there's a lot of. Yeah, it's been very, I don't use the app, but I think it's, it might be interesting for people to hear about it if they're, 'cause I think everyone that listens to this is like working parents that are probably trying to navigate like what freedom looks like right in, in this life that we, that we, I saw this thing yesterday and I'm gonna misquote it so hard.
[00:22:54] Shannon Curran: Well, there is this statistic that working moms today in 2026 see their kids more than stay-at-home moms in the 1970s. So this idea. That because they spend more time with their kids. Whereas in like back in the day your kids were just outta the house all day. They were just running around like not with you.
[00:23:15] Shannon Curran: Right. Like they were So I think there was this article in the new, I think it was the New York Times a few years ago that was like, the millennial parents are not okay. Like, because we're so like focused on not screwing up our kids, we almost have like too much information about like what you're supposed to do and we're working, I think this is the thing I'm gonna misquote, but I read it yesterday, something like 25% more hours.
[00:23:37] Shannon Curran: Like we're on more than we, than anyone ever has been post pandemic. Right? Like it just hasn't pulled back because you're just so omni reachable. Right? So I think it is something where everyone just feels like, I dunno if you've experienced this. Both of you actually of like feeling like you're always on, whether it's parenting or work and needing to, like, everything's always a trade off like every second of the day.
[00:24:01] Shannon Curran: We've talked a lot of, to a lot of people on the show about that.
[00:24:05] Mallory Lee: I think the only time that you can sort of like mentally turn off is at the end of the day when everyone, you know, has been put to bed. And the trade off is, you know, do I clean up my laundry or do I sit down and like watch a half hour of tv?
[00:24:21] Mallory Lee: And so even still. It's the trade off. And then, you know, my favorite thing is like the revenge bedtime procrastination where you stay up late because you haven't been able to like choose your own adventure during the day at all. Yep. But then the trade off is that you're tired the next day and it's like, how am I supposed to get up and out if I'm exhausted?
[00:24:44] Mallory Lee: But how am I supposed to ever mentally decompress if I can't have some time? The only time I can turn off my brain is if I'm watching something entertaining that I get kind of wrapped up in. And if it's not entertaining, I'll just sit there and work at the same time and I'm still not relaxing at all.
[00:25:02] Mallory Lee: And so it's, you know, like it's just very hard to actually turn off your brain. But yeah, it's always a trade off. Like you said.
[00:25:09] Amber Williams: What do you watch? Mallory Love is Blind. Straight off that.
[00:25:13] Mallory Lee: No, no, I, lately I like things where I have to try to figure it out, you know what I mean? Because that occupies my brain.
[00:25:24] Mallory Lee: You know, something that is like a thriller or a, you know, drama type situation. I'm trying to think of what we've really liked lately. I'm gonna mess it up 'cause we actually haven't watched TV for probably like six months. Me and Brian, we go through phases where we'll like have a show in the evening and then we go through just a busy season where like we don't watch anything in the evening.
[00:25:50] Mallory Lee: Although he makes some time lately for, uh, the F1 show on Netflix. He loves that one.
[00:25:56] Amber Williams: Yeah. That's so relatable. I, I used to, uh, watch shows with my spouse before we got pregnant. I used to mm-hmm. We used to read books to each other in bed at night, and my goodness, we used to say affirmations every morning when we woke up and then we were together.
[00:26:13] Amber Williams: Aww. What? That's so cute. Love to get back to that. But, but I think, yeah, it's, I feel like I, I have been getting like. My butt handed to me when it comes to asking for help with my spouse, and that's something that is really hard for me. I just assume that it's all my responsibility and that I get upset that it's all my responsibility because that I made it that way and.
[00:26:44] Amber Williams: It's Bill and it's a prison of my own
[00:26:45] Shannon Curran: creation. Thank you. Yeah.
[00:26:47] Amber Williams: I'm like, I wanna hang out with you, my spouse, but I don't want talk to you right now. I just need some space, but I feel guilty that maybe I'm not hanging out with you, but you know what? You told me to just. Go to wherever. Like if I need to go get a manicure, I need to go for a walk.
[00:27:06] Amber Williams: Like you told me, I have to ask for that. Like, no, like no one's gonna show up in your life and be like, except for maybe Nick, you know, the coach. And be like, how are you doing? Do you need to take some space? Like, oh. Like I'm always like waiting for someone to show up and be like, Hey, why don't you go do X, Y, Z?
[00:27:23] Amber Williams: And then I'll be like, great, I'm gonna go bye. It's like, no. You have to ask for it and be okay with leaving the house. And walking away, you know what I mean? Like that's been, that has been a challenge, but I got so frustrated. You talking about watching a show, like something to figure out Mallory? Mm-hmm.
[00:27:43] Amber Williams: Are you a puzzle person?
[00:27:45] Mallory Lee: Sometimes the boys have started to enjoy puzzles,
[00:27:49] Amber Williams: like a real puzzle. I don't really do real puzzles, but I feel like it's a mental thing. Like my wheels are always turning and it's just kind of fun. But I got really frustrated with something about work like a week ago and I found that it was just bleeding over into my the weekend and I was like, I am so frustrated.
[00:28:06] Amber Williams: Like I can't turn this off. I'm just thinking about this. I'm not gonna go work 'cause I don't have the solution. It's not gonna help anything I don't want, I'm not able to like be present with my family. So what did I do? I was like. I'm gonna go buy a bed for IKEA because we need it. And I was like, I'm going to do this.
[00:28:24] Amber Williams: And then unbeknownst to me, I get home. It's one of those things that you put together where it has the two people on there. But I did it by myself. Two
[00:28:33] Mallory Lee: person job.
[00:28:33] Amber Williams: Okay. Yeah. All right. Look at you. I was like, I don't think this is gonna take that long, babe. I got it. AKA, like leave me alone. I'm shutting myself in the room.
[00:28:42] Amber Williams: And it took me like three hours to put it together, but through doing it, I was like, my brain was like, it was just like a wash of like dopamine or whatever. I was like, I'm putting this together. You have to like take it apart halfway through and like fix what you miss, what you miss, and then put it back together.
[00:28:58] Amber Williams: And it was just like getting to that completion of the thing. I was like, okay, got it. And now I'm not so frustrated
[00:29:06] Mallory Lee: about work. No.
[00:29:08] Shannon Curran: Yeah,
[00:29:08] Mallory Lee: that's so true. I.
[00:29:10] Shannon Curran: I feel that way about meal prep. Like if I can put my headphones in and just chop vegetables for like an hour, it is like meditative because I can't touch my phone.
[00:29:20] Shannon Curran: I can't touch, 'cause I have to like use my hands. That's why I kind of like, I kinda like laundry. I said it, I kind of like it, like a I know, I know they move. I have to only if I have time. If I have time, I like it. If I don't have time, I hate it. Right. Like that's the thing. It's like I like folding and organizing, but only when I have the capacity to do it in the way I want to do it.
[00:29:39] Shannon Curran: So, yeah. Yeah. And I will say this is like the biggest, uh, so my husband makes fun of me about, he's the only one that actually experiences this all the time, but. I can't like watch real good TV because I can't get emotionally invested in things. I'm like the opposite. Mallory. I need something that's gonna like literally reset my nervous system.
[00:29:58] Shannon Curran: That feels like my therapist tells me this is normal. But like, that is like, like procedural TV show that like always wraps up at the end or like always has the same kind of cadence. So like I've watched every episode of NCIS. I have watched every episode of Law and Order. I have watched every, and like right now I'm watching Rosalia Isles for the third time.
[00:30:17] Shannon Curran: Yes, they are terrible, absolutely horrific TV shows, they're not good, but something about them like. A part of me thinks it's, 'cause my nana watched them when I was growing up, so it feels like comforting to me. But I like it's the only, and we fall asleep to this, it takes us like over a week to get through one episode of Law and Order.
[00:30:36] Shannon Curran: 'cause we turn it on and then we turn on the, like we turn on the like sleep timer and it just like turns off and we fall asleep. So it's funny, I have a similar, but I like just cannot wait. Like if I were able to like. Just like either put my headphones and listen to an audiobook or a podcast and like chop vegetables or like fold laundry while watching law and order.
[00:30:58] Shannon Curran: It's like a very, I'm like an 85-year-old, but I like, it's the only thing that resets my nervous system. I swear. Like it's, that's so, because I know how it's gonna end, nothing will surprise me. It's like, and it ends, it has the completion. Yeah,
[00:31:11] Amber Williams: will solve the case.
[00:31:13] Shannon Curran: They always do. They always find the bad guy and not in minute 20.
[00:31:16] Shannon Curran: It's always in like the 40 ish minute timeframe. Like I just like have it all figured out, you know? So it's just very repeatable to me. But I can understand Mallory, the like. Wanting to get engulfed in something. So like you can escape into it too. Like I can see both sides. Yeah, I can see both sides.
[00:31:32] Mallory Lee: Yeah.
[00:31:32] Mallory Lee: It's escaping. Not that my life like needs to be escaped from, you know, that's the thing that I wanna make sure I can guys say. But yeah, like there are just, we talk about having the tabs open in our brain, you know? Yes. And. The, the mental load, like that's such a buzz word. It just like quiets a few of those background processes that are always running in the brain of like, I don't meal prep.
[00:31:57] Mallory Lee: And so I'm always like, what am I making tomorrow? What are we eating this week? What are, what's the schedule? It's craziness, but I will say, shout out to all the people who are in the middle of May, December is what we're calling it right now. What's the date? May 22nd. So this is my kid's last day of school.
[00:32:20] Mallory Lee: Whoa. And yeah. Right.
[00:32:24] Shannon Curran: That feels early to me. Is that early? It's pretty
[00:32:26] Mallory Lee: early. It's a little early. Yeah, because it's like pre Memorial Day, they'll be done this year.
[00:32:31] Shannon Curran: Our school think is like June 19th or something. Or June 21st. It's like really late.
[00:32:36] Mallory Lee: Mm. And yeah, that is later. Yeah. Anyway, it gets more simple in the summer because we have more help with the nanny and because we don't have to get them off to school every single morning, so.
[00:32:47] Mallory Lee: I'm so excited to be wrapping up the crazy busy month of May.
[00:32:53] Amber Williams: Yeah, that's awesome. I hope the kids have a great summer. Yeah. Yeah, they will. Similarly, that's why I'm in a, a cubicle right now and not in my office because the daycare that we go to is it's cooperative daycare, so the dates are a little flexible sometimes.
[00:33:13] Amber Williams: Oh,
[00:33:14] Shannon Curran: yeah. Pick your own adventure a little bit. Yeah.
[00:33:18] Amber Williams: And, um, they just, like, their last day of, of daycare was, um, this Wednesday and then they have like a summer session for daycare that you can sign up for and usually I, we would sign up for it, but this year I was like. Eh, like my, my husband's not, you know, working right now and we just decided like, hey, like let's just keep him home more.
[00:33:36] Amber Williams: I mean, by that I mean you can keep him home more and I know I would love to. Sounds like a fun summer
[00:33:41] Shannon Curran: for you too.
[00:33:43] Amber Williams: I'd love to be there more, but my goal is to like get home earlier in the afternoons. But I have this great office and everything, but when my son is home. Yeah, it's been a point of contention before in the past with my spouse.
[00:33:55] Amber Williams: 'cause I'm like, you are watching him. Why is he banging down my door in my office? I don't want my son. Mm-hmm. To feel like he can't access me just because I'm working like he should be doing something else. So I have to like run away from the house when he's there, but I don't mind it as much. Where Kinda like a coworking space.
[00:34:15] Amber Williams: Yeah. Yeah. I used to feel big feelings about it as if like I should be able to work in my office and have my kid there and have him not ever want to see me. And I don't know, just like reach this point where I was like, whatever. Like I can go somewhere else or we can coordinate, like it's not that big of a deal.
[00:34:36] Amber Williams: So. Good for you. Yes. Good for you.
[00:34:40] Shannon Curran: It's really hard. I've been thinking about a coworking. I don't really live near one, so that's the hard thing, but I've been thinking about wanting. Some space outside of the house because I feel guilty the whole time. And I don't even know if it matters to the kid.
[00:34:53] Shannon Curran: Sebastian did take his little like plastic laptop. He has like a little computer. He goes, I got work. I got work I gotta do. I got work, like mommy work, like mommy's working. I gotta work. And I'm like, oh, I hate that. He like, I don't know how I feel about that. I don't know. Uh, and so I was like, play. He's, I know.
[00:35:10] Shannon Curran: Yeah. He thinks it's fun. Uh, and he always says, I want Daddy's at work. I was like, daddy is at work. Daddy goes to work, but mommy doesn't. And so it's like a little bit complicated for him to understand. Yeah. But it is extremely hard. Like when I had someone watching my youngest in the house. I still like, it was so great that I had childcare, but there was like a mental load that really did exist while she was still in the house.
[00:35:31] Shannon Curran: Like she cried. I could hear it if like, 'cause I know I could go solve it. Like there's like, it was extremely hard. So pros and cons to working fully remote, like pros and cons.
[00:35:41] Amber Williams: Same. Yeah, I don't really like it. I don't really like it either. I don't like working when my son is there. Do not compute.
[00:35:51] Mallory Lee: Oh, I think I've developed the opposite.
[00:35:54] Mallory Lee: I just like come in here to get away. I'm like, bye. Your kids are older. Shut these doors. I know, I know. They're older. It's different. Um, they still come and knock on the door and come in and it's fun to just see them pop in every once in a while, but yeah. Like if I'm in here. Just go. Don't even say on avail.
[00:36:14] Mallory Lee: On avail. Ask Daddy. Ask the nanny.
[00:36:18] Shannon Curran: Yeah. Did the nanny start tomorrow? Does she start like, oh, today's Friday. Does she start like Monday?
[00:36:23] Mallory Lee: Today's Friday, um, she will start on Wednesday because we've got like the long holiday weekend and then she works at the school system's preschool, and they have her last day of work.
[00:36:36] Mallory Lee: There will be Tuesday, so then she'll come Wednesday. So everybody's just, it's set up for her too. So excited. Yeah, it's, I don't even remember how many years, fourth or fifth year that she's been here, and every day this week, the boys have been like, okay, which day is Miss Lauren coming? Which day is she coming?
[00:36:54] Mallory Lee: Because they're like counting down to the days. So cute. Yeah. It's the best. I love summer. I'm so excited. Me too. Awesome. Cool. Cool. All right. I know we're coming down the path here. We can do save of the week and. I'm probably not gonna make mine the thing I just talked about, which is like summer and nanny and all of that, because I'm sure I'll have some other fun stories once we're fully underway, right?
[00:37:25] Mallory Lee: I'm going to do Claude as my safe this week. It had to happen at some point. Okay? So like today's the day. My Claude has just been working overtime this week and we're working on board meeting, presentation, and I was moving some of the slides into an app and Claude, so that next time around they just refresh.
[00:37:47] Mallory Lee: So a lot of, lot of time to put in this week to get them in a place where next time it'll be plug and play, so very excited. Shout out to Claude.
[00:37:58] Amber Williams: That's so cool. Yeah. You really have to put in like the upfront effort and prioritize. Mm-hmm. What you wanna save yourself from in the very near future. Right.
[00:38:08] Amber Williams: So, cool. I love hearing about how you're using it, Mallory.
[00:38:12] Mallory Lee: Oh, thank
[00:38:13] Amber Williams: you.
[00:38:14] Mallory Lee: What about you Amber? What's your save this week?
[00:38:16] Amber Williams: My save of the week is online grocery ordering. Just started doing it. I'm like, there's no reason that I need to be running around. It takes me like four hours to do groceries every weekend, and I'm like.
[00:38:31] Amber Williams: It's my chore. I'm gonna decide how to do my chore, and so I just need the groceries delivered now.
[00:38:38] Mallory Lee: How about you Shannon?
[00:38:40] Amber Williams: I think
[00:38:41] Shannon Curran: I'm gonna give a husband shout out this week. I dunno if he's been my save yet. Yay. I do. I know, I know. Good old Pete. He really has been the MVP of this week. So I am currently, the nature of my job as a CMO for multiple companies is typically that I have three board meetings, not one.
[00:38:58] Shannon Curran: So I am in, and some of them are in active fundraise right now. And so I am working on investor stories, uh, decks, doing some investor intros. 'cause I've, uh, been in BC before and it just feels like I'm doing a lot of like high stakes stuff right now, which is requiring a lot of brain power. And, um, this is the first time in my business that I've had three companies at this offer, like at this like kind of level, and I'm, I hit a really.
[00:39:25] Shannon Curran: Awesome like milestone for my business in terms of like financially, which was really amazing. But then you realize you have to deliver as a recent weather pan. Uh, so I've worked every night this week and like pretty significantly and feeling a little bit, like the whole day is like whack-a-mole and ended up at a dinner, like in person with one of my clients.
[00:39:43] Shannon Curran: 'cause like a potential buyer was there. Like, it was just like a lot of stuff happening at once. All right. Yeah. And, uh, feeling like I have to show up in like a way that isn't easy, right? Like, it's like, all right, I have to think about a lot of things in the way I'm showing up. Classically was the only woman there, you know, all that, all that.
[00:40:01] Shannon Curran: And so my husband has just like totally pulled up in a way that like. There's been no, like, making me feel guilty about it. So big shout out to Pete, who like just was primary parent of the year this week. Oh, Pete. I know, I know. And I, I think he went above and beyond, you know, he always is like an extremely like present and wonderful dad, but just really went above and beyond for, for me this week, which I appreciate on.
[00:40:26] Shannon Curran: So yeah, save chan this week.
[00:40:29] Amber Williams: Shout out to the awesome dads that are so present.
[00:40:33] Mallory Lee: I know, I know. It's crazy.
[00:40:35] Amber Williams: My mine has to like look me in the eyes and, and be like, make eye contact with me and be like, babe, I got it. I got this. I got it. And then I'll like, I'll be like, oh, you got it. You do. Got it. Okay. You do.
[00:40:51] Amber Williams: Got it. Sorry. Sorry for maybe not treating you as if I thought that you got it. 'cause you totally got it. Okay. I'm gonna go.
[00:41:00] Mallory Lee: Oh, that's awesome. So sweet. Before we go, Shannon, I have to share with you, um. This week, Brian and I were talking about how we're coming to Boston and how we're gonna like see you and meet you and be in person and everything.
[00:41:15] Mallory Lee: And he was like, Shannon is just so cool. And I was like, I know she is. And he's like, she's so funny. And I'm like, I know. He is like, I'm excited to meet her.
[00:41:27] Shannon Curran: Oh my God. I'm nervous. One of your kids called me a comedian too, which really just makes you, yeah,
[00:41:33] Mallory Lee: Grayson did. Grayson was like, that's Shannon. She's a comedian.
[00:41:37] Shannon Curran: Guys, I'm just trying to survive over here. Like I don't really know.
[00:41:41] Amber Williams: You are Shannon. You have a radio voice. Oh God. You have a radio voice? Yeah.
[00:41:46] Shannon Curran: Oh, even with the now situation that's happening. I'm so excited to see you in person. And Mallory, I'm gonna hug you so hard. I'm so excited to see you. I
[00:41:52] Mallory Lee: know Shannon Fan Club is coming to Boston.
[00:41:54] Mallory Lee: Um, oh my God. I cannot wait. Yeah. Little teaser for the, for the friends listening. So pretty soon we'll be recording. So in person?
[00:42:03] Shannon Curran: Yes. In person guys? Yeah. All right.
[00:42:06] Mallory Lee: Well, the moms
[00:42:07] Shannon Curran: take Boston.
[00:42:09] Mallory Lee: Yes. All right, Amber, this is awesome. I love talking to you. Thanks for having me, ladies. I need to go look at this journal now, so it's been fun.
[00:42:18] Mallory Lee: I
[00:42:18] Shannon Curran: know. Yeah. I wanna get you in.
[00:42:20] Mallory Lee: Shout out Chris Walker.
[00:42:22] Shannon Curran: I know. Thanks Chris Walker for Amber's career and for the journal.
[00:42:27] Mallory Lee: Thanks
[00:42:28] Shannon Curran: for listening to Full
[00:42:28] Mallory Lee: Stack Bombs. We'll be back with more episodes that help you see you're not crazy and you're not alone. If we might be your people, please make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:42:40] Amber Williams: I accidentally did something so like Mallory saw on LinkedIn, like I had ordered for what I thought were four bunches of bananas a couple week ago. No, I thought I ordered four bananas. Anyways, the bananas are wrong. Okay? Like whoever's picking the bananas, they will just say, Hey, I'm gonna give you four bananas, or I'm gonna give you four bunches of bananas.
[00:43:03] Amber Williams: And I ended up with 10 bunches of bananas, um, this, this last weekend. And I was like, this is hilarious. Like mom thing that I get to deal with. I should have realized I was paying $20 for bananas when I put them in my cart, but. It didn't make sense because the last time I ordered them, they gave me individual bananas.