Charles Shelton

Show Notes

The Interface Podcast Crew talks to Charles Shelton, Lead Research Scientist at Bosch Research and Technology Center.  He shares how he knew he wanted to work in tech since he started playing Atari at seven years old and explains working with embedded systems, the Internet of Things, and Artificial Intelligence as a scientist at Bosch.  We discuss AI-powered image recognition and the responsibility that needs to be addressed with that technology.  We talk about Transformers – the toys and the movies.  Finally, he shares some steps forwards and backwards in the artificial intelligence space.  

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Interface is a podcast where we connect technology and culture through conversation. Interface is brought to you by EMPOWER at PROS. EMPOWER is dedicated to attracting, developing and retaining Black talent at PROS. PROS helps people and companies outperform by enabling smarter selling in the digital economy.

Charles Shelton
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[00:00:51] Jennifer: Welcome to interface a podcast where we connect technology and culture through conversation. Interface is brought to you by empower at pros. [00:01:00] Empower is dedicated to attracting, developing, and retaining Blacktown and pros. Pros helps people and companies out before by enabling smarter selling in the digital economy.
I'm your host, Jennifer plumber, and I'm joined with Sierra and Matthew. And today our guest is Charles Shelton, lead research scientist, Bosch research and technology center. And I should say Charles Hilton pH D Dr. Charles Shelton. Thank you for being with us today.
[00:01:32] Charles: Thanks. You knew me when I wasn't a doctor.
[00:01:42] Jennifer: Welcome. Thanks for being with us today. Thanks for having me
[00:01:45] Charles: on
[00:01:46] Jennifer: I'm a little under the weather. I hope everyone else is feeling. Good today.
I'm feeling great. You actually sound really good.
[00:01:55] Charles: I can hear you're sick.
[00:01:57] Jennifer: I feel congested [00:02:00] and scratchy
[00:02:01] Siara: Matthews is in your corner today, as you can see, he can hear the sick.
[00:02:06] Matthew: See, I never get sick. I have one teacher immune system.
[00:02:09] Charles: So
[00:02:10] Jennifer: I'm usually pretty good, but like once a year it'll hit me and, but I got my water, like Matthew recommended. So if I feel like something's going around, a lot of people have been getting. Yeah, the weather is changing here in Houston. It's probably been cold for awhile where big C is, but it just got quiet. It just dropped to like 70,
[00:02:30] Charles: oh no, 70 degrees.
[00:02:34] Jennifer: We're living the dream look. And it's supposed to get down to the fifties today. I mean, pull out those sweaters and boots.
[00:02:44] Matthew: I just assume that it was never cold in the south. And so I'm getting this a rude awakening right
now.
[00:02:50] Jennifer: And it's hilarious because you'll see like kids like parents dropping off their kids at school and they'll have like full OD earmuffs and scarf.
And really it's [00:03:00] only like 65 to freezing.
[00:03:03] Siara: What are you talking about?
[00:03:05] Jennifer: We're spoiled.
[00:03:09] Charles: Although, I, I I've, I think I probably wouldn't trade like the tornadoes and hurricanes and floods. Those, we don't get a lot of those up in Pittsburgh.
[00:03:18] Jennifer: Yeah. But at this point we're like, yeah, we know what's coming in. There's a nice meme of someone like underwater. They're like thumbs up. They're like, yeah, it's all good.
Don't worry. Do it. So Charles, tell us, tell us your life story.
Tell us how you came to be, uh, uh, a research scientist and like, you know, why, why you wanted to do that?
[00:03:48] Charles: Well, I mean, I was always interested in technology since I was real little, um, I think my seventh birthday, I got an Atari 2,600 for my birthday. So that was. [00:04:00] Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I'm old. If, if that didn't include everyone in.
So, um, you know, video games have always been part of my life. Uh, that is what got me into computers as video games was the gateway drug. And then I got interested in computers. Um, my, uh, my father was a school teacher or he still, well, he he's retired now, but he's, he was a school teacher for a long time.
And during the summer, the, they would give their computers to the teachers to take home for the summer. Cause they didn't want them, uh, step stuck in the, in the school, you know, potentially being, uh, you know, a target for theft. So, uh, you know, we didn't have our own computer, but my dad brought home an apple Tuohy computer every time.
And set it up in my room. Like my parents were, were not computer literate, so they really had no idea what to do with it. So I said, okay, you can, you can have it play with it, do whatever you want with it. And so, uh, you know, that was, uh, I got to play with it every summer. Uh, in addition to [00:05:00] just, you know, getting lots of games, figuring out how to, how to make games running on the computer.
Also just learning that basic programming language and figuring out what that was and how to, how to make that make the computer do different things. And that always was, uh, that just lit a fire in me that this was, I knew this was what I wanted to do. Like technology was, uh, was what I wanted to do with my life since, since I was at.
I didn't really know what I could do with technology, but I just knew I wanted to be a part of that. So, um, you know, as I went through school, I was, uh, I was, I was a pretty good student. So, uh, you know, I got good grades and was able to, um, you know, to really have some options when I was applying for colleges.
Uh, and then, uh, uh, I think, I forget, uh, like one of my parents heard something about the Meyerhoff program because it wasn't, the Myra program was not a big thing in Philadelphia where I'm from. Uh, it was a big thing down in Maryland, Baltimore, DC area. I think everyone knew about the Meyerhoff program down there if you're in high [00:06:00] school and were interested in technology, but it was something that I had, I was not really familiar with, but we took a drive down.
There was, you know, two hour drive down to Maryland met with Mrs. Baker, uh, and got some information about the program. This was, you know, my, my early in my senior year before I started applying and you know, her, her pitch really got me interested in applying to the Meyerhoff program. I think are from there.
The rest is history. Like the Meyerhoff program was, was big on getting, uh, black people, black students into a higher degrees, particularly PhDs and the PhD programs, uh, where I was not really thinking about, you know, being a research scientist or getting higher degree. I was, I was focused on college, but not really what comes after.
And there was a lot of emphasis on that in the Meyerhoff program. And so that really, uh, opened my eyes to what, what I could do with an advanced degree and that there was an advanced degree out there. So, uh, the Meyerhoff program gave me a lot of support. Uh, Jenny, I know you're familiar with the Meyerhoff [00:07:00] program since that's where we met.
And, uh, yeah. Um, so after that went to, um, apply to graduate school at Carnegie Mellon university and spent five years at Carnegie Mellon getting my master's and PhD in computer engineer. And then, uh, got a job at Bosch. So Bosch is a, is a large multinational corporation. It's based in Germany. They're a huge supplier for automotive supplier.
They make a lot of different components for automobiles. They also do things like, uh, building security systems, appliances, power tools, uh, industrial automation. So lots of different things. Uh, and they are really focused on technology deployed in like in real life. So I would say kind of the opposite of what the Amazon Google or Microsoft do in terms of, you know, just working on computer systems and then computer systems have slowly invaded everything else.
They came from the opposite end, where they were always making different things that [00:08:00] went into other things and slowly computer technology became the bread and butter of everything that that is now in technology. You know, every, every, basically everything these days has, uh, has computers and software in itself.
And so by everything that BOSH makes now has computer technology and very quickly is getting more AI technology, uh, in those systems. So
[00:08:23] Jennifer: I can't buy a car right now cause, uh, I can't get, I can't get a chip for a new car. So everything's got, everything's got technology. Sorry.
[00:08:36] Charles: No, that, that that's very true. I mean, a car, a car is basically a rolling computer network. I mean, it's got there's, you know, basically it's hundreds of, of network nodes, all communicating together and everything is, is managed by software. So that's part of the, I always try to tell people. You know, your, your computer systems is really important to make sure your computer systems are reliable [00:09:00] and dependable.
And, uh, you know, if you're, if, if your, your life depends on a lot of computer systems these days, I mean, not just automobiles, airplanes, uh, you know, security systems, everything. And, uh, you know, if you're, if your phone crashes or your laptop crashes, you just restart it. No problem. Right? I mean, you can't restart your braking system if you're about to crash into the car in front of you.
So, I mean, these systems really, uh, have to have to be reliable, dependable, and also they have to be able to fail in ways that are, that they're still going to, um, they're going to provide that minimum level of safety so that you can survive.
[00:09:39] Jennifer: So what, what's your area of expertise now? What, what what's, uh, what have you been working on?
So,
[00:09:45] Charles: uh, I've, I've had, uh, yeah, I've been with Bosch for, uh, over 18 years now. So. A lot of things in different technology, I started off, uh, really focused on embedded systems. So all these computer systems that are [00:10:00] inside other things inside other components, you know, in the, in the last, uh, you know, 10, 15 years that has really merged with the internet space.
So now the, the big buzz word is internet of things. Uh, where, you know, when I, when I was coming up, it was embedded systems and then embedded systems combined with the internet. And then that became internet of things. So that's really, um, my focus is on, you know, it's not enough to just design computer systems and software so that they, uh, that they you'll just, just work correctly.
You really have to worry about the constraints in terms of what kinds of components they have, what, uh, you know, how much, how much they're going to cost. And then what kind of resources they have, because you can't really put the latest, uh, Intel chip or GPU into. Your toaster or your refrigerator. It's not, it's not cost-effective, you know, you can't, you can't run the, the latest, uh, uh, you know, Intel core, I seven on your refrigerator.
Cause that then that, [00:11:00] you know, adds about, uh, you know, another $500 costs to the refrigerator. No one was going to buy it. So you really have to, uh, be cognizant of what resources you have and then make your system and your software work with those resources. Uh, and that gets even further, uh, difficult with now the introduction of artificial intelligence and having that being so prolific now.
Uh, so now my, my focus has shifted to not just internet of things, but the intersection of internet of things and AI and how we get AI systems running reliably on these smaller, low power devices that are running, uh, you know, close to the user, not in those big data sensor centers, uh, that where, you know, a lot of the algorithms are originally developed and run.
Awesome. Can you compare your undergrad to your, uh, higher education? How does that compare? So my undergrad was, I felt like, so, uh, you know, I went to, uh, UN BC, that's where the Meyerhoff program was based. Uh, although USBC [00:12:00] is not an HBCU, I feel like we got the experience of an HBCU with the, with the Meyerhoff program and with a lot of the representation that was there.
Uh, so there was a lot of, uh, support for African-American students in particular and, uh, and all marginalized students on the campus there. Uh, Dr. is, you know, was, was present. He's still president at UBC about to retire, but has, has always made it his mission, uh, to ensure that a diversity and inclusion is a priority at USBC.
So I really. That was a, that was a core component of my undergrad experience.
[00:12:35] Jennifer: No, Dr. Bosky is a black man that was president of the university of Maryland Baltimore county.
[00:12:40] Charles: Yes. Yes, that's right. And, uh, and so, uh, in addition to the, uh, the high quality education and the, um, just the, the support and the, just having, you know, that experience and having, and, and having that support network and everything, I thought that was [00:13:00] really key to my undergrad experience.
And, uh, my graduate experience was a little bit more, I would say isolated. I mean, I I'd say, uh, there were, you know, there were far fewer, uh, uh, African-Americans at Carnegie Mellon university. Uh, I did, I did find the many there, you know, to, uh, to connect with and network with, uh, but it was definitely a different experience in terms it was a much, much more, uh, kind of independent experience.
Uh, where I didn't feel that same support network that I had in undergrad. Uh, but I think that, that my undergrad experience really did prepare me for the, um, for the graduate experience and give me all the tools that I needed to be successful. And, uh, and I really am appreciative of, of USB-C and the Meyerhoff program for putting me on that path.
[00:13:50] Jennifer: So you talked a little bit earlier about, um, you weren't really thinking about what comes after college, so you, you do your undergrad career, you get your [00:14:00] PhD. How did you kind of, you know, what was your journey like after that? Had you decided, you know, during your graduate program kind of, this is where I want to go, or did it take a little bit of soul searching after that or trying a few things to kind of find your lane?
[00:14:15] Charles: So my graduate experience exposed me to working a lot with, uh, with different companies. So my, my faculty advisors. Had a research grants with different companies like I did. Uh, I did a lot of research work with, uh, general motors, uh, and he also had a grant with, uh, with Bosch, which is the company that I eventually, uh, I eventually joined after I graduated and went through those experiences, learning about, uh, particularly how computers and software figured into automotive design though.
Automobile design, uh, that at least gave me the, the peak, my interest in terms of wanting to work on things where I could see the practical application. So not necessarily just the automotive space, [00:15:00] but in the space where, uh, these computer systems and technology are really going to figure into people's everyday lives and not necessarily.
And you're not just looking at, uh, solving, solving particular academic problems, but you're not really clear on what the, what the practical application is. So in my graduate experience, Kind of pushed me to, to realize that this is what I want to do. I wanted to do applied research. I wanted to focus on problem solving and trying those problems to the real world, uh, you know, trying to see and, and, you know, looking ahead to future technology, but really trying to see how that future technology can fit into the real world.
And that's, that's that put me on that path. And then, um, it was kind of serendipitous, uh, that Bosch had an opening when I was getting ready to graduate. I actually was, uh, um, applying with, with general motors, uh, is they had a research. Uh, they had a, um, you know, uh, a big corporate research division.
Um, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, just, just by, uh, by luck, I was, uh, I, I was recruited by Bosch. Bosch was still in Pittsburgh and, and still has a location in Pittsburgh.
That's where I'm still based where Carnegie Mellon is. So I didn't have to move. That was a, that was a big incentive. Uh, my wife was pregnant at the time, so, uh, you know, we were looking for a house and everything, so it kind of things just fell into place, uh, for, and I've been really happy at Bosch, uh, in terms of the work I've been able to do and the, the people I've met and the, um, the commitment that Bosch has to, uh, you know, to not just technology, but technology, uh, for people and, and focusing on, uh, on [00:17:00] people in their customers, uh, Bosch is a privately held company, so they're not traded on the stock market.
So that gives them a little bit of. Of freedom to be more of a responsible corporate citizen rather than kind of driven by quarterly profits. So, uh, I've uh, you know, I've, I I've had a good experience at Bosch.
[00:17:19] Jennifer: What's it like being a researcher like for someone that's not involved? I just imagine thing, I, I want to know what you do.
What's a day in the life of, are you just like in a white coat, in a room, just kind of thinking of ideas or is there, like our company will have like a strategy every year and they kick off. They're like, these are the, this is where we want to grow. Or these, this is the products we want to enhance this year and they kind of give us direction, um, to move in that direction.
So for us that, you know, aren't privy to being in the room with the researcher. What, what is it like, like, you know, what is your kind of day to day or your, or how does a idea [00:18:00] become a.
[00:18:01] Charles: So that's yeah, that's a, that's a good question. There, it's a, there's a lot of different tracks as a, within corporate research.
So there's, there's a couple of things where you do have the corporate research. Uh, leadership has a vision of like what feature topics are important and that's driven by technology trends. So you'll like right now, of course, AI is big internet of things is big. So those are kind of top trends that we're looking at.
And from that leadership, they will, um, they will say, okay, uh, within the research organization, uh, focus on these topics and then you look at, look at what are what's relevant for Bosch's current business. So, uh, you know, you'll, you'll look ahead and say, okay, what are the, what are, um, what are different business units within Bosch working on, uh, what might be relevant for those, for those businesses?
And you can, you, you get a little bit of time to figure out. Uh, some of those, uh, um, you know, some of those topics [00:19:00] on your own, and then you would have to, you know, what, if you do find something that's a, you know, you can do a small-scale study that might be like, uh, I want to explore this topic for a month or six weeks then if, uh, if you get some interesting results and you can pitch that to become a larger study, uh, and then that, uh, eventually will, uh, you know, get, go become a larger activity.
And then, you know, maybe a long scale, a larger scale project. Uh, so that's, that's one avenue. Another avenue is that if a business unit within Bosch has a, um, has, uh, some interesting, uh, you know, interesting technology that they want to, that they want to push, or there are, they have a customer demand that, uh, is, uh, coming externally.
Uh, then they might come to the research organization, say, Uh, this is a, this is something that we feel like is going to be, uh, we need to have a product in this space, but we don't have the, um, we don't have the technology [00:20:00] yet to do this. Do you ha do you, is this something that you can focus on for us?
And then we can, uh, we collaborate with our business unit partners to look at that technology and then, and then develop it further. Uh, and this could also happen if the, if the business unit sees the technology that we're working on and says, oh, this is something that can be directly relevant for my product.
Can you, uh, can you tailor this or, or transfer this into my organization so that I can, that I can develop it. We also do collaboration with, uh, with academic universities. So, uh, if, if we can partner with academic universities to get, uh, uh, grants from government organizations, other, uh, or other organizations, that's another way that we can do, uh, different research projects.
Once we have those kinds of projects outlined and we've, you know, we focus on, uh, understanding what, what we need to deliver, what kinds of deliverables we want to do or what kind of goals we want to set then, uh, that allows us to get down into, okay, let's investigate the technology, do some prototypes, [00:21:00] develop some initial systems and then, uh, and then go from there and further refine things.
Uh, according to what the, um, what our customers want, what our partners want. Awesome.
[00:21:12] Jennifer: What are some of your favorite products?
[00:21:17] Charles: So, uh, it's, I'd say, um, uh, you know, maybe I can't, I can't say directly
what
I've worked on, but I, I mean, I, I guess, um, one, one of the things, one of the things that I, that I'm currently working on that is it's, you know, it's, it's, it's publicity, it's, it's something that's already been in. The public space is a Bosch has been collaborating with NASA and the international space station.
And we have a, a system for doing, uh, audio analytics on the international space station. So NASA has a, uh, a robot called Astro B. This is a robot platform where it's a, basically a floating, uh, [00:22:00] That has different, uh, um, different technology attached to it. Uh, and it, it basically runs in the international space station.
It has, uh, air jets on it. So it can, it can basically move independently in space through the, through the space station. And it also has a, um, fits kind of a modular platform where you can plug in different technology to do different kinds of scientific studies. So BOSH, uh, together with another company in Pittsburgh astronauts.
Developed a, um, basically a microphone array for doing, uh, for doing high quality audio capture of lots of, uh, different frequency ranges. Uh, and this, this hardware device plugs into the attribute robot. And then we can use that to do different, uh, audio analysis and, and, and capture data on the space station.
Uh, one of the goals is that we, we want to use audio and audio AI to detect different problems with when machines are failing or starting to fail. So think of if you're driving a car and you hear a [00:23:00] weird sound in your car and it keeps repeating and you're like, what does that sound? And then you, you know, you take it into the mechanic and the mechanic has heard a hundred, the sound a hundred times, they can immediately say, oh, it's your, you know, it's your transmission or something like that.
So, uh, the goal for us is to basically make a system that can do that automatically, that can, that can listen for different things. Uh, in different machines and then understand what's happening to that machine. And that's in the space station in particular, it's an important thing because like, if there's a leak on the space station where atmosphere is, uh, is the atmosphere is breached on the space station, that can be very dangerous for the astronauts and the sound that it makes might not be audible to humans.
It might be above the range of, of human, uh, what humans can hear. And so if we have a high quality, uh, equipment that can, that can listen for that and then characterize that and realize that there's a problem and alert the astronauts, that that's an early warning system that can help, uh, [00:24:00] identify where there's a problem and fix it before it becomes a bigger problem.
[00:24:03] Jennifer: That's so cool. I that's really cool.
[00:24:08] Charles: Yeah. And, and so, so, so for Bosch, we see this as a, as a thing that, of course this is important on the space station, but this can also be important here on earth for, uh, for industrial automation and other. Uh, in factories, other other situations where if you can listen for different sounds and figure out what's going on, that can be something that can, that can help people fix problems before they, uh, before they become much, much worse.
[00:24:33] Jennifer: Yeah. Or like when you you're up in the middle of the night and you hear where it sounds, and it sounds like you'd be like, so the cat just knocked over something. No, one's no one's breaking in right now. That would also be helpful. I love this. I mean, this is technology for good. Um, I love that. Yeah. It also reminds me of, um, Was it Thor or something where they're like, magic is just technology, like really good technology.
I [00:25:00] mean, being able to detect sounds that you can't even hear and say, oh no, actually this is how it's this thing that you can't perceive as is affecting your, your environment that you're in right now.
[00:25:10] Charles: Yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a quote by the author. Arthur C. Clarke. There any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
So yeah. That's, that's the same idea. Yeah.
[00:25:20] Jennifer: Yeah. I think there was a star Trek episode about that as well. Um, nerd alert, nerd
I've been watching a lot of star Trek lately. So you also said you, you were mentioning that cube and I was like, like a bored kid.
Um, you kind of touched on this earlier about, um, Bosch being private and, and kind of corporate responsibility. Um, could you kind of talk a little bit more about AI and, um, kind of, do you have some [00:26:00] parameters around which, you know, this is technology for good versus not evil, but you know, things that can be misused and also, it seems kind of unheard of you hear about all the IPO stuff.
So I'm really surprised to hear that they're still private. Um, so yeah, I'm really interested in, in that.
[00:26:19] Charles: Well, well, Bosch is a Bosch is a very old company. So Bosch is, uh, was founded and I believe it was 1886 by Robert Bosch. Uh, and it's a German company. It's a, and he was, he had a, like when he set up the company, uh, on, on his death, uh, the company is now really run by a charitable charitable foundation.
Uh, I think it's like 92% of the, um, uh, of the controlling interest of the company is owned by this, uh, FOSS charitable foundation in Germany. Uh, so that really, um, sets the tone for the, the goals of this corporation where it's, you know, they, they still [00:27:00] emphasize profits and, and being profitable, but the, the goal is to maximize those profits to support the charitable organization.
So they, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna say it's perfect. I'm not going to say that, you know, there's still people involved. So, you know, people, people can still be corrupted in any organization, but I, I think the goals of the organization and, and, uh, and the tone that Bosch sets, uh, from the. Uh, really emphasizes this risk, you know, corporate responsibility and, and, uh, making sure that the technology that we develop is, uh, is used in responsible ways.
Uh, another thing that Bosch does is they do not take any military contracts. Uh, so they are, you know, they don't want to use any of their technology for military applications. So that's another, uh, that's another kind of corporate, um, uh, uh, responsibility, uh, edict that they've instant they've instituted as, as part of their culture.
Uh, and so, I mean, that's, uh, it's, it's rare that you see that in, in a large [00:28:00] corporation and I will say, and, you know, the fact that it's, uh, that it's based in Germany, it's, it's not, uh, it's, you know, it's more of a European mindset, so they have a, it's a, it's a, I think it's a different mindset than the, than the kind of younger American co American companies that, uh, that are, are currently in the tech technology players.
So I think all those things that make things make it a, give it a. Particular perspective. So yeah, most people, I think it's what two years, two to three years they switch like out of companies. I think I looked up the average tenure it's about four years. And then you, you talk about this company and I kind of hear like the gratitude.
What are like the benefits that you found that made you stay there for 18 years? Yeah. I mean, I think one thing is the, the, um, the work that we've been doing, I think has been, has been really interesting and, and really, uh, has. Energize me, uh, I've had the [00:29:00] opportunity to work with, uh, with people from lots of different walks of life.
Uh, lots of different, you know, I've, I've, uh, since we are based in Germany, I've had the chance to travel to Germany and other, other parts of the, of the, of the world to, to work with different colleagues, uh, the continuing to have a connection to the academic world. I have, uh, lots of friends and colleagues at Carnegie Mellon university that we still do collaborations with.
Uh, so having that opportunity to have a foot in both the academic research space and the corporate techno, uh, you know, uh, corporate research space has been, uh, has been really, uh, just motivated, motivating, and energizing for me. And, uh, you know, it's having this, uh, the steam of responsibility has, has made.
Happy to stay with Bosch and, and comfortable that the work I'm doing is, is being used for good and not for evil. So that's a, that's a big, uh, you know, that's, that's something we have to be increasingly aware of as, as [00:30:00] technology gets, gets used in more and more things. Uh, you know, that's, that's something that's, that's always in the back of my mind.
[00:30:09] Jennifer: So what, what would, how would you recommend someone who is interested in AI or internet of things or computer engineering or whatever, um, you know, how could they get stuff?
[00:30:20] Charles: Well, I mean, I think these days there's a lot of opportunity to, to, to kind of do it yourself, get technology, get access to technology yourself.
Like when, when I was a kid, yeah. I had this, you know, this huge apple Toohey and, uh, and an old Atari 2,600. That was, that was the, that was it for my computer experience. You know, there wasn't, there wasn't a lot for me. To look at her or put my hands on nowadays. There's so much technology available that you can get access to.
Uh, I mean, it's, it's, it's not, uh, there, the cost of getting that technology is, is, um, is I think reasonable for a, you know, for, uh, younger [00:31:00] people. So if you, if you're interested in technology, I mean, everyone now has a smartphone. Uh, I think, uh, starting there just, just, you know, take taking your smartphone out and using it to, um, to see what, see what different things you can do with it.
I mean, particularly for Android phones, you can, you can download different apps to do programming languages on there. Things like a raspberry PI, uh, th those are, those are things that are very, uh, uh, available and you can, you can set those up and do a. Uh, you know, starting with, uh, just running, um, Python, which is a scripting language that is used in a lot of AI, uh, uh, systems.
And you can run that on a raspberry PI do projects yourself. Uh, I really encourage people to seek out programs for their kids. Like my son did a boys and girls club, a summer program this summer that focused on AI. So there are lots of these programs are available. And I think it's really important to get young kids interested in these things, uh, as early as [00:32:00] possible and, and make them aware of, of how they can use technology.
Because I think now kids kind of take technology for granted. Like it it's just always there it's ubiquitous screens are everywhere. Like, you know, if you told me when I was, uh, 10 years old, that I could watch TV on a screen in my, in my pocket, or I could, you know, I could, uh, I, you know, the video phones didn't have to be these giant things.
You could, everyone would carry them around everywhere. I mean, this is something. Was completely alien to me as a kid, but now this is, this is normal for every, for everyone. And I think there's so much accessibility, but I think the important thing is that, uh, people have to computer literacy is, is really a requirement.
Now not a, it's not something that's optional. You really, you know, beyond just, just using the technology and having it available, really take the opportunity to dig around in the technology, poke around with a tinker with it and figure it out, learn [00:33:00] how it works. And I think that'll put you on the path to, uh, to really exploring this career.
I think I, I think every, uh, every technology field these days is, has some computer technology, uh, connected to it. So regardless as if, if you're into, uh, you know, chemistry, physics, uh, you know, electrical or mechanical engineering, architecture, all these different fields. Are going to have a bit as a baseline computer technology supporting it.
And, uh, I think, uh, you can't go wrong with, with getting, uh, getting a, a, um, you know, a, a base level of understanding of all this technology.
[00:33:41] Jennifer: Yeah. That makes sense. So what programs should companies implement to increase black talent and technology?
[00:33:49] Charles: So, I mean, I I'm really, uh, I, again, I would say reaching out to younger kids and, and, you know, maybe start even starting at the [00:34:00] grade school level, uh, or high school level to get, to have people mentor, uh, young students have them bring, bring them in for internships.
Uh that's I think that's something that's, uh, that that companies should really do if they, if they want to encourage and, and seek out black talent, I think. I mean this, uh, one thing that I can think of that, uh, as you know, it's coming from the, um, uh, from the sports field, like one of the things that happened in the NFL is that, uh, they instituted the, um, the Rooney rule.
And this was from, uh, uh, actually the Pittsburgh Steelers, the, you know, the, um, the, the owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers where, uh, the rule is that you have to, when you're interviewing positions, you have to seek out, you know, uh, some marginalized talent. So, you know, making sure that you're, you're putting, you're actively recruiting and looking for, uh, talent from non-traditional spaces, black spaces, indigenous spaces, you know, people of color in general women, uh, you know, [00:35:00] LG, LGBT, I think it's a, um, it starts there where you, you can't just say, well, these are the resumes I got and they just all happen to be white guys.
So I guess that's it, you know, that you have to really, you, you have to really see. Uh, and encourage people to, uh, to apply and, and, and, you know, create those opportunities. Cause, uh, I mean, this, this is the, this is kind of the chicken and egg problem is that these opportunities have been historically denied to, uh, to marginalized groups, people of color in general for a long time.
And it's, it's all, there's already a lot of roadblocks put in place to getting those opportunities. And if you, if you don't actively work to break them, break down those roadblocks, they're just going to stay there just because of inertia. So, uh, it's really, I think it's really important and really a tantamount for, for everyone.
Who's, um, who's in these fields to really reach back and try to actively recruit and, and [00:36:00] seek out, uh, talent in, in places that they don't normally.
[00:36:05] Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. I always like to highlight it with, you know, I've had this career and I really love it and I want more people to be able to experience it because I think I was just say lucky, but I just feel very fortunate that my career is something that I, I never met.
Same as you, when I, when I started undergrad, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I just want to know I needed to go to school next. And then from there I would figure it out as I came along. So not being able to imagine. So now that I'm here, I'm like, oh, you know, more people should make this decision because it's, it's really rewarding.
I think it's really, uh, Like it changes like, like you said, your, your, your field has evolved over the years. My field has evolved over the years that you're always just kind of interesting things
[00:36:50] Charles: always going on. Yeah, definitely. It's an interesting point. You say more people should make the decision because some people aren't aware of that decision is [00:37:00] there.
[00:37:00] Jennifer: Exactly. Yeah. So if you don't, if you don't reach out and let people know that that's an option, then they're going to go with what's familiar to them.
[00:37:08] Charles: Yeah. I mean, like I, when I was like, my, my, my mom actually got her PhD in psychology in the eighties, when, when I was a kid, I didn't really understand what she was doing.
She went back after, like, she had been a teacher for a long time, and then she went back and got her PhD. Uh, I didn't, I didn't really understand what that meant. I mean, I re I remember, like, she was just, uh, she was as really busy when I was little, so it's like, I didn't have a lot of time with her cause he was working on her dissertation, but, you know, uh, re you know, And when I, when I was, uh, you know, starting, uh, getting ready for it, to graduate high school and getting into college.
And the Meyerhoff program mentioned that like, the focus is on getting more African American PhDs. And, you know, at the time I, that wasn't really something that was on my radar. Even though my mom had a [00:38:00] PhD, she was a psychologist. I didn't really understand what that meant for, you know, for getting into technology.
Like I knew, I just knew I liked computers and technology. I wanted to do something with that. And the Meyerhoff program is what really opened my eyes as to what it meant to get a PhD. You know, you interact with people who already have their PhD, who are, you know, they show you what they're actually doing day to day, what it means to be a research scientist, what it means to be in higher education.
And yeah, without that program, I don't think I would've had that same experience and programs like that are what helped, uh, you know, younger staff. Uh, open their eyes and see that what the, what opportunities are out there.
[00:38:42] Jennifer: Yeah. Everyone should have 10 minutes with Dr. Belsky to inspire them to be their best selves that they can be.
Okay. So, um, where if people wanted to get in touch with you? Oh, we didn't even talk about [00:39:00] transmission.
Can we talk about transmissions a little bit? Yeah,
[00:39:07] Charles: we, we can, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I, so I do, uh, yeah. Um, you know, it's, it's not all, it's not all work. So I like to play too. I already mentioned that I started, I started with video games. I mean, so that was two of my passions in the eighties. We're video games and transforming robots.
So, you know, that's, uh, those two things shaped my childhood. And now as an adult, uh, I'm still playing video games. I'm still playing with, uh, with transforming robots. So, um, I have a, I have a podcast it's called transmissions. Uh, it's at transmissions podcast.com. It's available on all the platforms, uh, apple podcast, Google play, Spotify everywhere.
Uh, and yeah, we do, we do two weekly shows all about transforming toys. So I mean, transformers in particular. So the transformers, uh, the Autobots and Decepticons, [00:40:00] uh, there's new toys being produced now, uh, for kids and adults, there's comic books, there's TV shows. There's a Netflix show that just came out, uh, in the last year.
There's a lot another live action movie coming next. Uh, so, uh, and this year was the 35th anniversary of the animated transformers movie that I saw when I was 10 years old, uh, the 25th anniversary of the beast wars, which was like one of the first computer animated cartoons in the nineties. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, it's a, transformers is a big thing.
It's, it is a, you know, it's driven by, uh, by toys. So, uh, you know, I think it gets it's in the, in the, in the Pantheon of, of nerd stuff. I guess it's a, it's not as high regard, highly regarded as star wars or Marvel, just because the focus is on the toys, not necessarily on the, on the stories, but, uh, but there are great stories and, and that's what kept me coming back to transformers, uh, within the comics and TV shows and everything.
And then the toys are [00:41:00] great too. So toy toys that are always two things in one, at least two things in one, because you can turn them from a robot to a car and a truck or plane or whatever.
[00:41:09] Matthew: Do you have any objects on the Michael bay?
[00:41:12] Charles: Uh, yeah, I don't like
Yeah. I am not a fan of the Michael bay films, not my transformers yet, but everything else is great.
[00:41:26] Jennifer: But the new Bumble, the
[00:41:27] Charles: bumblebee movie, I did enjoy the bumblebee movie. Uh, yeah. I mean, I felt like that was closer to what I wanted in a transformers movie. And I have a I'm I'm cautiously optimistic about the next movie that's coming out next year.
That's a different director. And, uh, it looks like they're, they're hopefully doing different things, taking it in a different direction. So, uh, but yeah, I mean, sadly, the movies are, are kind of what the Zeit guys has taken away from transformers like the, you know, and yeah, that's kinda, [00:42:00] in my opinion, the worst part is it's worse, but you know, I
[00:42:03] Jennifer: want to see more of the robots and the Michael bay movies is kind of.
You don't really know the robot.
[00:42:10] Charles: So that's, that's my main complaint. Yeah.
[00:42:14] Jennifer: So how did you, how long have you been doing the podcast?
[00:42:19] Charles: I've been doing the podcast for eight years, so yeah, it's, it's been, uh, it's been a weekly show, so we've, we haven't missed a week, uh, in, in eight years. So, uh, pretty proud of that, but, uh, it's been, uh, it's, it's been fun and something, you know, something that I can, uh, I can call my own, but it's, you know, it's, it's something that, that gives me, it gives me a little bit of a, a break in my, in my downtime.
So
[00:42:46] Matthew: gained anything skill-wise or just anything you want to mention from doing the.
[00:42:51] Charles: So, yeah, I mean, we've, we've had the opportunity to interview a lot of, uh, a lot of people who've worked on different transformers properties. So from voice actors [00:43:00] to comic artists, to TV show producers and things. So I've really developed skills as a podcaster from, uh, working on the, on the transmissions podcast.
Uh, and that includes, uh, just hosting a podcast or I'm doing interviews, talking to people, just doing a little bit of voice acting, try, you know, you doing the reading
[00:43:20] Jennifer: of, uh, of the peace wars, uh, comic, uh, yeah, very, very fun.
[00:43:30] Charles: So yeah, if I, if I could, if I could have a second career, it would be podcasting, although, uh, it doesn't really pay very much these days.
[00:43:39] Jennifer: Can you apply those skills to your day day? Because I will say I've been like involved in a lot of like what I call my side hustles, which is like involvement employee resource groups. And I think it, I was definitely very Nique, maybe like just very kind of someone that kind of liked the flat or the radar.
And I think through those other things, my [00:44:00] confidence got built up, which translated to my work and my daily life. And that kind of helped my career project. What do you think about that?
[00:44:08] Charles: Yeah, I w I would say that's definitely something that has impacted me being, uh, being more confident in, in terms of, of speaking and, and, uh, and, and doing, uh, you know, different kinds of internal corporate advertising or things like that.
Like, uh, uh, since my colleagues know that I do a podcast, a lot of the times they come to me saying we are, we're doing like a, you know, a demonstration video. We need a voice to, you know, to, uh, do some overlay for this video. Can you, can you do this voice? Can you, uh, you know, read this. And punch it up a little bit.
And so, yeah, I'm always happy to do that. So yeah, sometimes I become the voice of, uh, of some of our research projects, which is fun.
[00:44:48] Siara: Yeah. I love that. I just liked the idea of just a bunch of big kids. Um, you know, having conversations about toys and transplant. I was like, this looks like [00:45:00] fun. I need to, I'm definitely going to tune in to hear what you guys are talking about and tell my husband about it because he's a fellow big, uh, big kid we enjoy all of,
[00:45:12] Charles: yeah, definitely.
Definitely tell all your friends to listen.
[00:45:15] Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. Just watching the video with the voice of Megatron voice options, pride. Um, just every time he went into character, I was like, oh my God. It's like,
All right. It's time for the heat check. I feel like we need to go sweet. I was just thinking that Charles, we're learning as we're going. I know that you have been here and every week we come up with something, oh, we need to do that. And we need to do this.
[00:45:45] Matthew: I'm going to write that down music.
[00:45:51] Jennifer: Um, so this is where we shout out something that's exciting us or interesting us peaking our interest or whatever[00:46:00]
that's been going on and technology or black culture. So, Charles, can you go for it?
[00:46:09] Charles: Sure. Yeah. So, uh, this was something that, uh, we've been talking about AI and, uh, and how that's kind of permeating everything, uh, and these days, and, and, you know, the culture and technology. Uh, so recently Google just announced their latest pixel phones.
So the pixel six and the pixel six pro, uh, and part as part of that launch, they introduced this, uh, new technology called real tone, which is particularly for improving their photography so that they can capture all different skin tones and provide, uh, good pictures for, uh, all different types of skin tones.
And they. I watched their, uh, their initial introduction video for this, uh, particularly, I mean, it was, I was struck by the fact that they, they called out, they said, yes. Um, there has been photography has had a bias towards light skin, uh, [00:47:00] since it was, since it was started. I mean, the fact that, that they openly said that and, and made that clear, I think is, is already a step forward, but they, they took it further with, uh, particularly getting a lot of, uh, black artists and photographers in the space and helping and using them to help, uh, take, take lots of more pictures to improve their, um, their image and facial recognition system to make, uh, their, their cameras a lot more, uh, responsive and, and, and useful for people of color.
So I thought that was really interesting and really, uh, uh, you know, a great move for, uh, for a technology company, like. Um, but of course, you know, corporations are, uh, are giant things that are capable of both good and bad. So I contrast this, this real, this real tone initiative with the also recent, uh, ouster of, uh, Tim net Gibro, who was a, um, uh, a black female, uh, expert in AI [00:48:00] research who was working for Google until the end of last year, when over a dispute of a paper that she was publishing, uh, with other colleagues and with academic, uh, uh, with, uh, with other colleagues in the academic space, there, there was some internal, um, Stripe within Google that actually, uh, and they kind of forced her.
Because her paper was critical of some of their larger, the larger language models that were being used by Google and other companies because, uh, they, you know, they see that the, the space of the data is so huge that you're not really sure you can't be sure what data is in there and how, you know, there, there will, there could be unconscious biases in that data that will then affect your algorithms, uh, as they're developed.
And, uh, you know, she was critical of that. Her paper was a, um, was, was focusing on that. And of course, Google says that, uh, the paper didn't meet their standards for publication. There are a lot of criticisms to that in terms of, you know, well, it appears these standards didn't really exist for other [00:49:00] publications, uh, that, that Google has, you know, the other researchers at Google say, well, really, the only focus from internally from Google was whether or not there was any proprietary technology and a paper before it was published.
And then the review, the external review process deals with the quality of the work. You know, this, this. Kind of makes it clear that, uh, in terms of AI and, uh, and what's happening with, uh, with equitable AI, making sure that AI is, is ethically developed and maintained. Uh, there's a lot of work to do. I mean, uh, we can, we can applaud Google for taking strides and trying to, uh, trying to make things more equitable, but we should also take them to task for, uh, not allowing, uh, critical voices to stay within their company and make sure that they, that they are listening to those voices and being good corporate citizens.
So, uh, I think this is, this is just, uh, shows the, the, the upside and the downside of, of all the technologies that are [00:50:00] advancing today. And we need to be careful, uh, as those technologies continue to, to, uh, permeate throughout, uh, throughout our system.
[00:50:08] Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely. I think the other point, which surprised me, but maybe I shouldn't have been surprised is the carbon footprint to do all that processing.
I think there was a table in that article about, you know, one car is like this much, but then computing, all this was like, the bar was like the slug. It was a lot. And it also reminded me. I was at a Grace Hopper conference a few years ago where they were talking about how they have to innovate ways to keep these cloud centers where all these servers are cool.
Because I mean, it's just generating, you know, it's using all this energy and we just kind of don't think about, you know, all the, you know, all these cloud products, we're using everything we're using. There's, you know, there's a server farm somewhere. That's just like sucking out, uh, you know, our resources and we should be aware of that.
[00:51:00] So, um, yeah, that was another interesting thing that, that had brought. Along with that. My heat check today is Facebook.
[00:51:09] Matthew: Yeah. I know I'm walking away.
[00:51:15] Jennifer: Why don't you do this one? Cause I have a backup one you want to go on?
[00:51:18] Matthew: Yeah, there are disabling their, um, facial recognition science. Right. And they're deleting the data of the, a billion users, which if you look me up on Facebook, you'll actually find the album.
They have one photo and it's me as a five-year-old eating cereal. And I deleted all my photos for that exact reason. And people were like, you're crazy. And I'm just like, no, they're doing this in the background. And you guys are just not aware of it. That's a little bit of my paranoia, but I look more into it.
And when they started it in 2010, it automatically went and it wasn't until 2019 that you could opt in. And I, it's kind of like weird that it's a week after they started their rebranding. I [00:52:00] think it's. The whole ethical corporate citizens ad are stunned by it. And the
[00:52:07] Jennifer: whole rebrand has some strategy behind it.
I
[00:52:12] Charles: absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we've, we've already, like, they've already been, had some whistleblowers about how they're they're they were internally adjusting their algorithms to make a, you know, to increase engagement, but also increase anger from their, from their users. So
[00:52:27] Siara: if any, if no one has watched that Netflix documentary, the social dilemma, it is so mind blowing of how that the whole algorithm and the people behind, like it's, it was just, it's like shutting down everything on social media forever, but you can't actually delete.
Your Facebook account, you can like disable it or something can't you can't actually believe. Oh.
[00:52:54] Matthew: And speaking of the facial recognition and like the, the pictures of black and brown [00:53:00] people, it talked about how it misidentify as black and brown faces at a higher rate. Yeah.
[00:53:06] Siara: Hey, insert heavy. I roll on that one.
[00:53:12] Jennifer: Yeah. This is kind of like another thing and yeah. Was just one of those things that everybody is using. You know, some people are like Mathew or are very conscientious of, of it, but a lot of people are just using it and not realizing that they're, they're pulling all that information. There's a, you know, they've got it in a database and they're using that information for things that we don't know.
[00:53:33] Matthew: And the thing with that is like Facebook and WhatsApp, if in other countries, like, especially in Guinea, that's their news. That's how they communicate. That's all they have. Like they get at smartphone and automatically comes with a WhatsApp and Facebook. Yeah.
[00:53:49] Jennifer: Yeah. What are the, what are the options, right.
In order to, yeah. Sierra, you want me to do my backup or you, or do you want to go next? It doesn't matter. Okay. I'll save you for last. [00:54:00] So my backup is, um, I read, uh, 20 things I've learned in my 20 years as a software engineer by Justin Etheridge. And so there's a nice, cute little, um, things I shouldn't say cute, but things that when you're new to the field, maybe stress you out.
But when you're kind of older and wiser, you're just kinda like, yeah, it'll be fine. So, um, I won't read all 20, but let me find the ones that spoke to me. Every system eventually sucks. Get over it. So, you know, you want to build the perfect system or you like to complain about things you don't like. You really need to think about the history of that, because I've definitely worked on things that are kind of like older and like they're still used today and people are like, why is it like this?
Why can't we do things? It was like, well, you know, this was originally designed to do this. And it was really good at that. Um, but [00:55:00] over the years we've had to adapt it for other things. And so it's not so good at those things because no one was thinking about that. So that's kind of like, ah, that's one of the ones I liked.
Um, so the other one is a software as a means to an end. So, um, always relate back to why am I building the system, right. It's not to have the quintessential perfect system with the best design that goes with it. Your, your. It's there to fulfill some sort of business need. And so try to think of, okay, well, who are the users?
Are we doing the thing that's best for the users? And don't stress out too much about, um, you know, just the minutia detailed because you know, once things get, once things get, you have a perfect idea of how you want to architect system and you kind of go down that lane, but then you start users start using the system and maybe their ideas, a little different, they're using it in a way that you [00:56:00] maybe weren't expecting.
And it's sometimes it's hard to switch to pivot and be like, okay, I wanted to build this, but actually this is, this is where it's found its audience or the people that are want to use it. So being able to kind of let that go and just be like, okay, let's, let's let it evolve naturally into where it needs to be.
[00:56:20] Siara: That sounds like you with, um, moving to Yammer, calling you out on that.
[00:56:28] Jennifer: Give me a couple of weeks. I just need
no worries. Take your time. All right, Sierra.
[00:56:38] Siara: All right. So my check for this week, um, is a little different than what you guys were talking about earlier. But the last week I was able to attend a few sessions of the Adobe max conference.
So it's a big conference for content creators and educators in the artistic space. And so I've mentioned before [00:57:00] that I'm kind of self-teaching myself, the Adobe creative suite. And so they talked about a bunch of new features and things that are coming out for their products. But I was able to listen into a session where they were talking about, um, this nutrient for artists being able to certify and catalog their work.
And so with a previous guests we've talked to on interface, we were talking about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency. And so now artists are using what they're calling NFTE. So an NFT is a non fungible token. It's a. Unit of data stored on the blockchain, which I learned that about Bitcoin conversation that certifies a digital asset to be one of a kind.
So as you know, you know, think about the Mona Lisa, there are so many people who have recreated that piece of art, but it took many, many years for Leonardo DiCaprio to basically put his name out there and say, did I say[00:58:00]
the various famous artists painted the Mona Lisa many, many years ago, DaVinci my apologies.
But imagine how many years it took him, you know, of doing this work for him to be able to, you know, put his name in stone and have this very famous piece of artwork. Well now new emerging artists or artists who have been in the industry for a very long time, they're now able to. Certify their work be paid, what they deserve to be paid their work can't be stolen and reuse and monetize without their consent.
Now with these NFTs. And so it's a group of collectors are using these NFTs to be able to pay artists, um, for their artwork. And there's a company. Um, I found this article on this site called worth. And so it's a company who's coming out with [00:59:00] a new form of the NFT and it's called blue and FTS. And basically it's, um, being able to have the fine art authentication for folks to use.
And so it was an interesting article, um, and it played well with that, that session that I listened to, um, on Adobe. And so for creators, and I don't know for things that, you know, we do outside my side hustle is creating, um, different things for, for other people and being able to say, yo, this is my work.
If you want to use it, please come and ask me for it and pay me, pay me my fee.
[00:59:39] Charles: I do. Uh, I've I've looked a little bit into NFTs as well. I would say. Um, I think that's, that's the positive way to use the NFTs. I do see them also being used for evil too. Like in terms of just being just people, trying to market and sell NFTs as a thing that you can buy to say that you own that [01:00:00] artwork when you don't actually own it.
Like, if like, as a creator, you can say, okay, I've created this NFT that represents my work. So, you know, if you, uh, you know, if you're not accessing, accessing this work with you via this NFT, this is, this is not authentic, but there are people who are trying to create like a marketplace for buying and selling just the NFT itself.
Uh, which I think is. Ludicrous like th this, this, and if this NFE doesn't give you the rights to the original artwork or original creation, it's just, um, a, you know, like a certificate of authentication. So it would be like, if you, if you had like a really rare comic book and you got the comic book certified and they give you the certificate of authentication, and then you just sell the certificate and you don't sell the, you keep the comic book, but you sell that certificate and people, and people take the certificate to say, Hey, I got the certificate, but do you actually own the comic book?
Right. So, so that, so, yeah, so [01:01:00]
[01:01:02] Siara: yeah, it's always this tug of war between using these new technologies for good to really help people. And then others who are just looking to take advantage. There will always be those folks out there. Absolutely. So, yeah, I will, we'll share the link to that particular article in the show notes for this episode.
[01:01:22] Jennifer: And, um, along with everyone else's here. Yes. Yes. So, uh, Charles, um, you'll, can you share your, um, one more time? How can people get in contact with you or, or watch transmissions?
[01:01:37] Charles: Sure. So, uh, yeah, I mean, if, uh, if you're interested in interacting with me, I'm, I'm on Twitter. Uh, I don't, I'm not a huge social media guy.
Like I don't post very frequently, but, uh, you can, you can, uh, contact me on Twitter at, at CP Shelton. So it's pretty easy. My middle name, my middle name is Preston. So CP Shelton, that's it. [01:02:00] Um, I'm also on Facebook. I mean, uh, I don't really use Facebook very much anymore as a father, but yeah. Uh, I'm I'm also on LinkedIn.
Um, and you know, if you just search for my name on LinkedIn, you'll find me there. Uh, for transmissions, the podcast is transmissions podcast.com. We are all on all the social media platforms. So where you have a YouTube channel, we have Twitter or Facebook, Instagram, all those things to, you know, and there was, those are all linked from the website.
So you can get access to all our podcasts there. Uh, you can also subscribe, subscribe to the podcast on all the platforms. Like I mentioned already, Google, apple, Spotify, Amazon. I think Facebook now has a podcast platform too. So, um, uh, but yeah, so I mean, you can, you can listen to us anywhere. Uh, yeah. If, if you're a fan of transformers, uh, take a listen, see what you think.
Um, yeah, I mean, I always worry that it's, [01:03:00] it's, uh, it's very niche, so if it doesn't immediately grab you, it's okay. If it, you know, if you want to listen to something else, but yeah, we. Hardcore transformers, fans and that, and that's our focus. So, um, we do do like every episode, we do a video where we show off some of the toys we got that week.
So that could be fun. So you can look at, you can look at that on our YouTube channel. Uh, so that's, you know, um, the fun segment we do every week, uh, but a lot of it is yeah. Discussing, uh, the latest toys and latest, uh, media comics, you know, movies and all that stuff. So
[01:03:35] Siara: this is what we should have pulled your wife in on get her tape and all of your video gaming and playing with toy.
[01:03:46] Charles: She tolerated it.
But yeah, I mean, she's, she's actually, I mean, so, uh, if I can, if I can brag about my wife, she has, she's not interested in transformers. But she [01:04:00] has really, uh, she's knows that I have an interested in, and then she has worked hard to make sure that, um, she, uh, she supports my interest in and does things like get me special gifts that, that recognize my interest.
So like this, uh, this artwork here that, uh, is right above me, this is, this is an optimist prime drawing done by a comic artist. His name is Livio Ram in Delhi. My wife, uh, commissioned the artist to do that artwork for me, Christmas present last year,
it was a total surprise. So I really appreciate how much she supports me, even though she doesn't really understand it. So
[01:04:41] Siara: brag on your wife, Charlie. Beautiful.
[01:04:44] Jennifer: That's beautiful. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Um, really had a great time. If you want to reach us, you can reach us the interface podcast.
At pros.com took be a second to think about that. [01:05:00] Um, or on LinkedIn, you can reach each of us and I'll put all this information in the show notes. So you'll see that.
[01:05:08] Siara: And pretty soon we'll be able to say, you can find us on all of the podcasts.
[01:05:14] Jennifer: We're very close. We're very close. Definitely going to be a, you see me on social media that day?
That's all I have still talking about what episodes,
please. If you enjoyed this conversation, please go out and have your own conversations. Reach out, learn more about AI, learn more about transformers or whatever it is that excites you. Thank you all. Thank you. See you next time. Bye.
[01:05:49] Charles: Boom.