You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast

On today's podcast, Caroline Cash and Daniel De Jesús (thinkorange.com) discuss three different ways mentors show up for their mentees. Listen in to Daniel's insight from years of mentoring in and out of the ministry world. You will learn how to show up predictably, mentally, and randomly. Don't miss this episode!

Show Notes

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WELCOME

You Can Mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others.

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SHOW NOTES




Creators and Guests

Host
Zachary Garza
Founder of Forerunner Mentoring & You Can Mentor // Father to the Fatherless // Author

What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?

You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.

We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.

Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.

Speaker 1:

You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor. Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. We are so glad that you are here.

Speaker 1:

And my name is Caroline, and I am here today with the one and only Daniel de Jesus. Hey.

Speaker 2:

What's up, Cash?

Speaker 1:

Welcome back.

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh. It feels so good to be back.

Speaker 1:

You were on our podcast at the very beginning.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

And I want to reference this I'm

Speaker 2:

a OG host.

Speaker 1:

You are. Like, our first, like, 3 episodes here. Yeah. Maybe more than that, actually.

Speaker 2:

No. I think it was probably just, like, 3 or

Speaker 1:

maybe less. Either way, if you are new around here, Daniel was on the podcast at the very beginning, so this is a treat for us. And if you haven't listened to his episode about his story, go listen to that because what we're gonna be talking about today, I'm sure was heavily influenced by your story. And so just to give you guys, you listeners, some context for what where we are coming from, where Daniel's coming from specifically, I think that'd be really good. So, we're excited to have you.

Speaker 2:

Thanks. Thanks. It feels really good to to be back. I, I love you guys so much. Oh,

Speaker 1:

we love you too.

Speaker 2:

I'm so proud of you guys and how the well, the podcast is doing and how many people it's helping, and it's just cool. It's cool to watch, like, something grow.

Speaker 1:

The title of today's podcast episode is called Different Ways of Showing Up. So you guys have heard this on here before about just the importance of showing up, but we can say that all we want. But what does that actually mean? Mhmm. And how do you actually do that as a mentor?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Before we jump in there, Daniel, I just wanna hear a little bit about what you're doing now. Yeah. And you are currently working for Orange. Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

And I'm sure there are some people who've heard of what that is. But can you just explain your role, what Orange is, how our mentors could even use it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So Orange is a organization.

Speaker 2:

It's a nonprofit ministry, that's been a part of my life for, gosh, now probably 13 years. Wow. I started off as a kid's pastor in in the local church. And it's, an Orange basically is a is a philosophy of ministry where, you know, you take the, you know, it's red and yellow coming together and make orange. Red being the heart of the home or the family, and yellow representing the light of the church, or Christ.

Speaker 2:

Cool. And so putting those 2 kind of influences together creates orange, and it creates kind of, like, the most powerful influence that you can have in a child's life. Those 2 combined influence, so to speak. Yeah. And so they write curriculum, and they write resources and put on events and, trainings and things like that around the country.

Speaker 2:

Mhmm. And, so I've been connected to them since I started the ministry at 21. And for the last 4 years, I've been lucky enough to kind of partner with them and work for them part time. And then just in this last year, went on full time with them as, basically, just one of their, like, orange specialists or coaches that basically consults and talks with, you know, ministry leaders, church leaders, helps them strategize on how to use the curriculum and you and the different resources they they put out. They have apps and they have training kits and just a lot of different resources that that will help church leaders, influence the next generation.

Speaker 2:

And they primarily work with, like, kids and teenagers.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. So it's been, man, it's been it's been like a dream to to be able to to work with an organization like them. They're pretty amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And you currently are able to work from home with your 2 girls.

Speaker 2:

I know. It's crazy. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

The work if anybody out there who works from home, man, like, I I bless you, because it's definitely a huge, it takes a lot of discipline. And you don't realize I didn't realize how much discipline I didn't have until I until I started doing it. So, it's been but yeah, that's it's been a wonderful experience and a good learning experience.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if we mentioned this on previous podcasts that you've been on, but Daniel is actually a dancer. And Daniel, I, like, wish that I I wish that this is being recorded on YouTube too to be able to flash up the videos of you dancing at the Orange conferences.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's like a big deal.

Speaker 2:

I got yeah. I've been going for so many years. And this last year, finally, like, after, gosh, 12 years of going, they always have, like, these cool dance numbers and just, like, a fun hype team just on stage. Like, there's, like, 8,000 people from all over the world there. Right?

Speaker 2:

And and for years, I'd be like, oh, it'd be so fun. And I finally got a chance to to do it this past year. I love that. Yeah. You

Speaker 1:

were like front and center too.

Speaker 2:

Man, it it was yeah. There were a lot of us, and we got to do, like, NSYNC's, bye bye bye, and just like a bunch of old school choreography. And, man, I was just I was living my absolute best life that day. I'm so glad you congratulations.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well,

Speaker 1:

so if you're listening, if you are a church leader or in ministry at all, I would highly recommend checking out Orange because it is it has really incredible resources that are really easy to use and adapt to your specific needs.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so many obviously, their resources are in the context of, like, leading kids in a church setting. Right? But all the principles are completely transferable to, like, the 1 on 1 mentor child relationship, all of them.

Speaker 2:

You know? Yeah. And, so, yeah, I would definitely I would definitely check it out. It's, what is orange.org. I believe it's the website.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. We'll add that to our show notes if you are forgetful like me. I kinda just wanna jump into our topic, but really start with you in your background Mhmm. As a mentor and as someone who has kind of learned the importance of showing up, why this is so important to you specifically?

Speaker 2:

Sure. Yeah. Like, you know, like you mentioned, you know, my first podcast, I shared a lot of my own story and just how a mentor showed up in my life. And that really set me on a trajectory, really, of, wanting to show up in other kids' lives just like somebody, you know, showed up for me. And so I found myself in ministry, as a kid's pastor, and, it was just like this beautiful yeah.

Speaker 2:

It was a beautiful season in my life where I got to work with so many different kinds of kids from all kinds of different backgrounds and really got to show them God's love just through, you know, just through the ministry of presence, really. You know? And, yeah, you know, like, in that in ministry, or at least my personality is, like, I wanna show up for everybody. So I had to learn very quickly that, like, I couldn't be everyone's mentor just because I was the kid's pastor. You know?

Speaker 2:

Mhmm. So that was that was a good learning experience. But I did find you know, if I I I feel like I've mentored a lot of kids over the years, especially in helping them, you know, on their their journey and their faith. There is one kid in particular when I was probably around 25. There was a kid in my church whose mom just one day came up to me and was like, hey, my son is struggling in school.

Speaker 2:

He's getting into a lot of fights. He's dealing with a lot of anger issues. You know, his dad was there. There's, you know, both parents were in their home, but dad did work a lot and she was, I think sick. And he was the only child and he was, you know, just kinda acting out.

Speaker 2:

And she was like, can you just, like, be with him? Would you mind, like, just having a having lunch with him or, you know, just hanging out with him one day? I was like, yeah. Sure. I didn't think anything of it.

Speaker 2:

And, yeah, like that kid, his name is Ashton. He was in 3rd grade. We started hanging out and, you know, little by little, I I just, like, started to fall in love with this little kid. You know? He was he was just such a sweet, sweet boy, and he didn't know how to direct how he was feeling, you know, his emotions.

Speaker 2:

And, and so it really just took another person just speaking in and and being available and listening to him, you know. And this doesn't happen all the time, but, you know, my favorite the or the coolest thing I'd say that's happened with us, you know, it's it's been gosh. It's been over 10 years since I've been his mentor. He's, yeah. He's 16 now.

Speaker 2:

It's crazy. But, you know, there was one day where, you know, we would always go to McDonald's, and that was just our spot. You know, we'd order he'd always get, like, cheeseburger, no pickles. We we would hang out, and there was one day where his mom was late to pick him up. And and I was teaching dance like you mentioned.

Speaker 2:

So I was teaching dance a couple times a week, and I always had a class right after we met. And his mom was late picking him up, so I called her and I was like, hey. I'll just bring him to the studio, and he could just hang out in the lobby or just hang out in my class while while we wait for you. So I ended up taking him to the studio, and he just sat there and he watched while I while I taught class. And it was cool.

Speaker 2:

Like, at the end, he was just like, that was cool. Like, do you think that I could ever do that one day? And I was like, yeah. Of course. Like, you should totally like, you should get into it.

Speaker 2:

Like, you should ask your mom about it, whatever. And that, I mean, that ended up setting him on this trajectory. And now he's like this incredibly accomplished ballet dancer. Wow. That's amazing.

Speaker 2:

And he, I mean, he went all in. He didn't start dancing until he was, gosh, until he was, like, 10. Wow. And, but his parents, like, took it super seriously. It was, like, the first time that he really showed a a genuine interest in something.

Speaker 2:

And they they just did everything that they could to, like, put him in classes and take him to, to get him, like, the best trainers. And now he lives in LA, and he's going to, like, this amazing ballet school. And he's just, like, on this on this path to, like, be a professional ballet dancer. For him. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

That's amazing. But

Speaker 1:

he maybe wouldn't have ever thought that thought about that if he hadn't had you in his life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. It's If he

Speaker 1:

if his mom hadn't have been late.

Speaker 2:

Right. Right? I know. It's it's bizarre. But, man, that's just how good that's how good God is.

Speaker 2:

You know? Yeah. And it was it really just took the simplicity of me committing to, you know, just show up in his life and share my life with him.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, that's man, every time I think about that, I'm I'm blown away. But

Speaker 1:

Cool. Wow. That's amazing. I wanna ask one follow-up question on that. Just, like, what did it look like for you as his mentor when he started to show interest in dance?

Speaker 1:

Mhmm. Which, like, was a connection that you guys had. But what did it look like for you as a mentor to speak into that and to speak into that passion of his?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. The dance world is funny, and, it's it's a it's a skill or I think it's I think it's a sport. That's my opinion. But it's it's a skill that, especially with ballet, requires, or at least you feel like it requires a lot of perfection. Mhmm.

Speaker 2:

And so I think the biggest thing for him in his particular circumstance, especially starting dance late, you know, for me, it was speaking into just the fact of, like, hey. Remember that you're this is brand new to you, and you're starting a lot later than most kids, but that he had, like, this natural talent and this drive that a lot of kids who start dance really, really young, they start to lose by the time he was the age that he started. Wow. And so even today, like, I just saw him, like, a month ago, and we had lunch. And and he was talking about how all of his ballet teachers are constantly talking about how motivated he is and his drive.

Speaker 2:

And, you know, maybe he doesn't have the best technique in the entire class, but, like, they know that he's an extremely hard worker. And I think that's because because he started late and because he felt like he had to prove himself. And, so, yeah, I think that when he would have those moments of just doubting himself from just, like, I'm never gonna get this or I'm not good enough or I'll never be good enough, it was reminding him that that he just has a different story than most kids. And, in fact, his story actually motivates him to to work harder than a lot of his peers.

Speaker 1:

Cool. Yeah. That's awesome.

Speaker 2:

I know. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 1:

Aw, sweet Ashton.

Speaker 2:

I do good things. I love you, bud, if you're listening.

Speaker 1:

I love that. That's a good kid. That is awesome. So one of the things that you had mentioned, to me before we started recording was just the idea of leading small

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And something that you had learned through Orange, actually. But will you just kind of unpack that and Yeah.

Speaker 2:

For sure.

Speaker 1:

How you've applied that to mentoring?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. You know, obviously, Orange has been a part of my life for a very long time, and so there's a lot of their writing and principles that they've written about that have really shaped the way that I lead and do ministry and mentor. And yeah. So there is they have an incredible kind of I'd say it's like a handbook, so to speak. It's really, like I had mentioned before, written in the context of, you know, someone who's, working in the church with, like, a small group of kids, like a volunteer that's working with a small group of kids, but, you know, kind of a super volunteer, like someone who is really willing to show up every single week and work with the same kids and really become a mentor or figure for them.

Speaker 2:

So this book is written kind of with that in mind, and it's called Lead Small, and it's just basically five principles of how to help every kid just feel like they belong somewhere and just feel known. You know? So it talks a lot about the importance of being present. It talks about how to create a safe place, how to partner with parents, how to make your own faith, a priority, and really just how to think about moving them out in terms of, like, thinking about what's what's next for them and their next season of life and always keeping that in front of them as their as their mentor. So it's like 5 really simple principles.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Can you say all of those again for mentors?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So they're be present, create a safe place, partnering with parents, make it personal, which is about your own faith, and move them out, which is about kind of thinking about what's next. So, yeah, so it's it's it's very simple, but it's like, hey, if you are a mentor, here are, like, the 5 things that you need to be doing. And if you're not doing these, you know what I mean? Like, it's it's like your that's your job description, basically.

Speaker 1:

So, Yeah. Cool.

Speaker 2:

So being present is like that first is that first major like, the I'd say the most important one Right.

Speaker 1:

Showing up. So that's kinda what we're talking about today Yeah. Of just being present means more than just physically being there.

Speaker 2:

Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

You know? Mhmm. I think it's interesting that you mentioned, like, mentoring, even just with that leading small principle of it's tailored towards, like, a small group or a volunteer with a small group of kids or whatever. Because I know for me, the mentors in my life were all from church, and it was, like, 2 women and 10 of us girls.

Speaker 2:

Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

But I am still in contact with both of them. So cool. And you just can't ever underestimate the impact that you are making if you are a volunteer at church, if you are a volunteer. You know, anytime you're working with kids, kids always are looking at the big people, at the adults in the room. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Like, for me, I spent a lot of time with those women, but there were other people within, specifically for me, church or, like, camp. I really didn't spend that much time with.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

But I have learned so much from them even in little interactions. And so, obviously, most of our, listeners are mentors and mentoring 1 or a few kids.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

But I just think that's a good reminder of, like, you can you mentor, by the way, that you just love on kids even if you're not spending a ton, a ton, a ton of time with them. Yeah. But anyway Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It's just like the no. That's it's great. It's like the consistency of showing up has so much more power than you think it does. Yeah. And, you know, when you when you think about it, God like, in the form of Jesus, like, that is, like, our model and our example of, the power of of showing up because God thought it was so important.

Speaker 2:

Like, presence was so important that he would, like, become a man, you know, and, like, actually That's

Speaker 1:

really good.

Speaker 2:

Be among us and live among us. You know? And he knew how important it would be for people to be able to touch and see and feel him, you know, and to and to actually have a physical person that that they could see to be to be to be able to experience him. Yeah. You know?

Speaker 2:

And, like, that's, like, that's the incarnation. Like, that's that's the power of God being being with us. That kind of idea is out of this book called when relationships matter. And, yeah, it's just that that powerful idea that, like, yeah, it's God saw the need to show who he is to people who couldn't see him by sending someone they could see. That is that is who Jesus is to us.

Speaker 2:

You know? And it shows us how much we need to see and experience, like, presence in our lives. And he's like, Jesus is the ultimate example of that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. In, like, every form of of presence, like, physically present. And you look all through scripture at the times that he was emotionally present

Speaker 2:

Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

And just, like, was a comfort and was a friend to people. Yes. I mean, like, the first thing I think of is just Lazarus. Like, Jesus was emotionally aware and emotionally present of what was going on and wept over his friend. Yes.

Speaker 1:

And, like, that's a big deal. Like, when you really sit down and think about the fact that God the father wanted us to know that his son, our savior, is there present with us in our emotions, in our in the way we think. Yeah. We've talked about Zaccheus before on this podcast too. I dove.

Speaker 1:

It's just so good where Jesus was like, hey. I'm going to your house today.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to yours, and I know where you live. Like, I know who you are. I know who you are to your core because I am your savior. And, like, I I just think that's so good. I mean, we could spend hours and hours and hours and days.

Speaker 2:

In terms of, like, in the mentoring relationship, like, we know that kids can't see God, and they can't see Jesus, and they can't see the holy spirit. Right? But kids can see people who follow God. Mhmm. You know?

Speaker 2:

And so I think that's the very best thing that we can do is by is give people or give kids caring adults that follow God to show them who God is so that they can experience him. You know? That's really good. And yeah. And that that's how he he uses he uses people in that way.

Speaker 2:

You know?

Speaker 1:

Wow. Wow. I love that. That's awesome. So why why is this idea of showing up important, especially to the kids that we are talking about?

Speaker 1:

So we Mhmm. Why does this idea of showing up have so much weight in a mentoring relationship?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I think I mean, really, the the biggest thing that stands out is just knowing that, you know, all kids need this no matter where they're from, I think. But, like, especially kids from hard places are already dealing with maybe some trauma from abandonment. Mhmm. And so to have someone in their life who's not their parent, not someone not it's so important that it's someone that they don't expect to show up in a in a way that maybe their parent would or for them to be able to see or experience, like, really who God is.

Speaker 2:

Like, it needs to be someone that they, that they wouldn't expect. And, but, yeah, I'd say that, like, if they if they have already experienced people breaking promises or leaving them Mhmm. And and they don't and they're left with no answers and they don't know why, Man, the opportunity for a mentor to be able to step in and and fill that gap, to personify love and value in that way Mhmm. Is so, so incredibly powerful for that for that kid. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I say this all the time. If you're thinking about being a mentor, you know, but you're not so sure that you can show up, you know, and be that sort of consistent, predictable figure in a kid's life, then maybe you shouldn't consider it. You know what I mean? Because I think a lot of times, what very well meaning mentors can do more damage by being inconsistent and by by not showing up. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And all it does is sort of, like, promulgate that idea in the kid's head that, like, they're not worth showing up for. Mhmm. You know? And and I don't say that to scare mentors or anything like that, you know, but but just to understand the weight of Yeah. The role and the power of of presence.

Speaker 2:

And so when that's not there, yeah, it it can do a lot of damage.

Speaker 1:

And this is this is why I think it's important to note too that we are always encouraging you mentors to find mentoring organizations or through your local church. Mentor through those avenues. Mhmm. Obviously, kids move. Obviously, things happen in your life where you may have to move.

Speaker 1:

Mhmm. But starting with, like, a local organization just makes the most sense for for everybody involved because it just allows it gives you, really, the freedom of not having to worry about, oh, but I live 2 hours away, and how am I going to make it? Like, that just really doesn't make any practical sense.

Speaker 2:

Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

And so for mentors, like, find your local mentoring orgs because they are out there, and we have talked about a few of them. Do a Google search from local mentoring orgs, or if you are in the church, like, mentoring someone through there or finding someone to disciple that is close in proximity Mhmm. To you can really just help eliminate a lot of those big issues because Yeah. It just makes so much sense. Like, I know the girls that I mentor are now in college, and they go to school at Arkansas.

Speaker 1:

And it's really hard to see

Speaker 2:

them Yes.

Speaker 1:

And to be a good mentor to them Mhmm. Physically because I'm I do not live in Arkansas. And we'll talk about, like, other ways to show up and how I can still mentor them. Yeah. And, like, you still mentor Ashton.

Speaker 2:

Mhmm. It

Speaker 1:

just looks a lot different. But especially at the beginning of your relationship, it is really important,

Speaker 2:

I think Yeah. At the beginning, you just have the opportunity to lay a lot of groundwork.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

A lot of groundwork. And you're building a ton of trust of trust in that season. And I will say, like, I mean, there were there were a couple years in during Ashton's, like, middle school years where we lost touch a little bit. I remember being so worried that, like, once we regained once we, like, got reconnected that, like, it would be different. It would be weird.

Speaker 2:

But when we found each other again, it was like nothing had happened. Yeah. And I think a lot of that is attributed to, like, the amount of time together that we spent on the front end. And Mhmm. He knew me to be a trustworthy person, and I had, earned, like, enough, like, relational equity, so to speak.

Speaker 2:

Totally. You know?

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

To where it wasn't, even though we had some time apart or we didn't get to spend, you know, some time together, we fell right back into into a rhythm. And so there's there there it's possible. Yeah. It's possible as long as you, like, do the work on the front end, I think, and so that trust.

Speaker 1:

I love that. Like, what is required to to kinda start gaining that trust? I mean Mhmm. The reality is that every relationship needs time

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

To grow. And so what does that look like for especially for a kid from a hard place? Why is it so important to kind of address this this idea of being predictable

Speaker 2:

Yeah. For sure.

Speaker 1:

Or your mentee?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Predictability, I think, is everything. I think everyone needs someone to be predictable in their life. You know, we all do, like all of us do, like all of us want to have someone in our lives who truly knows us, who knows our name, who knows the things that we love the things that we don't love. To have that is such a gift.

Speaker 2:

You know, and, and so yeah, I mean, I'd say, you know, at least like in lead small, when we talk about the importance of being present, and the importance of connecting your your kid to like real community, like showing up is like, and being predictable, meaning being consistent, is literally just, like, the bare minimum. It is like that is your number one job is to show up when you say you're going to. You know? And, yeah, that that predictability and that consistency is so important because your kid needs to know They just know they need to know that you're gonna keep your promises, and you're gonna show up when they expect you to. And so I would say too that, like, in that vein, it's important to set healthy expectations too, not just with your kid, but, like, with the mom or the dad or, yeah, just the parent figures because, I think it might be easy for a kid to kind of maybe glamorize or just have really high expectations if they're not clear or they're not set at the at the forefront.

Speaker 2:

Or for a mom, you know, like, when I think about single moms and, like, how I've worked with so many single moms over the years, and they just they desperately want a strong, consistent male figure in their son's life. You know? So much to the point where, you know, if if one does commit, it's like, okay. So when and how often? And, you know, are you gonna be able to show up to this?

Speaker 2:

And can you do this? And can you do that? They're just eager to Right. Have that that presence in their kid's life, and it's it's beautiful. It's awesome.

Speaker 2:

They should. As a mentor, it's gonna be so important for you to set realistic expectations at the at the front end so that you don't end up letting a kid down or or letting a mom

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

A mom down. You know? And so you've gotta look at your own family. You've gotta look at your, you know, other priorities and things like that and make sure Mhmm. That everyone's kind of, yeah, very clear about how how often you show up.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. But, but that predictability and that consistency is a 100% key. It's good. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It is foolish to think that we're just gonna have the same, you know, hour with our mentee every single week. And I go to every single game, and that's just how it works because that's just not reality. Life happens for all of us. And so can you just kinda shed some light on, like, a good way to go about telling your mentee or, like, if you're communicating with mom, telling mom that you can't make it, that something has come up or, like, we've talked in the past too. Like, how do you communicate?

Speaker 1:

Like, oh, if I if I'm having a baby, like, if my family is having a baby or if we are, like, going out of town for a long time, like, what is just what are some good ways to communicate with mom and man and mentee about just life stuff when you can't show up?

Speaker 2:

I think that it's only really hard if you haven't established that kind of relationship with Mhmm. The parents on the be at the at the very beginning.

Speaker 1:

It's good.

Speaker 2:

I know so many mentor, mentee kind of pairings. And even myself, it was a lot easier just to, like, spend time with Ashton and not really talk to mom a whole lot in the very beginning. And realizing that if I don't have a strong partnership with mom and dad in this situation, then those kinds of issues that come up in my own life become so much harder to share and explain. So because if you establish that relationship at the beginning, there is an immediate trust that begins to be built. And so they know that, like, what I'm saying is is true.

Speaker 2:

Mhmm. You know? And they're not questioning my motives. They're not questioning, you know, my, yeah, just my honesty in in that situation. And so, yeah, I would say that if if if you haven't established that, it'd be so important to to really take the time to just, like, schedule dinner or schedule a time that you can sit down face to face across from Mhmm.

Speaker 2:

A parent and a mentee and just say, you know, I want you to know, first of all, that my heart is, like, for you and for your kid. Yeah. And I I am I am in this. Like, I am invested. I am, I I love your kid, and I want I'm in this for the long run.

Speaker 2:

But I also want you to know too that, you know, I've got my wife or my kids, and I've got this job. And so these are my hours, and these are kind of what this is kind of what my typical day looks like. And so this is the time that I've carved out for for me and and my mentee. Mhmm. You know?

Speaker 2:

And just, like, make it very, very plain and clear. But but just but also just being able to share your heart with them so that they just they know that you're coming from the right place. But if that's never been established, then, yeah, it's so it's so hard to not, think of the the worst case scenario or, you know, like, oh, I'm not really sure he ever really cared because he didn't come to this thing that I invited him to. You know? Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

We've talked a little bit about what it showed the importance of showing up physically and, like, what it means to be consistent there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

But, obviously, you can be physically there and not mentally and or emotionally Yes. Present. So I just kinda wanna dive into that. What does it look like to show up mentally?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. So we show up predictably. We show up mentally. And, mentally, when I think about it, it's really just about giving your mentee your undivided attention when you are with them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Obviously, in a lot of mental relationships, you usually have, like, a carved out time where you are together, you know, whether it's an hour a week or whether it's, you know, an hour every 2 weeks, whatever. But we also live in, like, this age of distraction, and it's so easy to to not give the people that are right in front of us our undivided attention. Right? I mean, we live in a in a culture that perpetuates this idea that, like, every text message is, like, deserves an immediate response and every email and every work phone call and things like that.

Speaker 2:

And, obviously, that doesn't that's not beneficial for the human faces that are, like, standing in front of you. And so, yeah, I think when it comes to your mentee, you've got a lot. You've got a great opportunity to really, really show them how valuable they are to you by by being fully present mentally with them. So that just yeah. That does mean, like, just checking your own baggage at the door.

Speaker 2:

It means, you know, putting away your phone or putting it on on silent for that hour. And I think, you know, one of the most practical things that I've learned that I because it's hard. This is super hard for me, especially be I'm someone who who is like my phone. Our phones are, like, now an appendage. Totally.

Speaker 2:

Right? Mhmm. But I think one of the most practical things I've learned is that I have to just distract myself from my phone and from those other responsibilities with things that interest them. And so just, like, be becoming, becoming an expert at, like, their favorite things Mhmm. Has become something that keeps me focused and keeps me just on task and and present mentally with them.

Speaker 2:

You know? So just, like, really engaging their interests. And and kids love to teach. Yes. They love to teach you things.

Speaker 1:

Mhmm.

Speaker 2:

And so if they are super interested in something that you know nothing about inside, you might be dying and, like, this is awful. Like, I don't care about my little pony right now. Mhmm. But your interest in that and and, like, allowing them to teach you, like, what they know and the things that they're passionate about just, like, makes their heart, I think, sore.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean? Yes. Like, they

Speaker 1:

love that. Do know everything. The amount of times I know my little brother is 11, and he has a huge fish tank. And the amount of times that he has said, can I please show you my new fish and tell me all about them? Like, I've seen all of them 10 times.

Speaker 1:

But the joy it brings, like

Speaker 2:

Yes. So much joy.

Speaker 1:

Just to just to show you something that they love.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

That's really good.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. There there was a really incredible research study research study that came out a few years ago called the FASE Project. And they basically brought together child development experts and child psychologists and state teachers of the year. And they, like, brought them all together and were basically able to identify, like, core questions that every kid is asking at every phase of their life. So starting from, like, birth all the way to high school.

Speaker 2:

And they're be able to identify, like, these, like, core questions. Like, obviously, they can't verbalize these questions. Right? But it's like it's a question that every kid is asking at every phase. During, like, these elementary years, they discovered that, like, kids have are expressing, like, these series of do I have questions.

Speaker 2:

Like, do I have your attention? Do I have what it takes? Do I have friends? And those are those are questions that are born out of, like, when you think about it, they're in this season where, like, they're really dealing with for the very first time, like, they're grappling with their own, like, skills and abilities. Like, what am I good at?

Speaker 2:

Like, what do I like? Mhmm. They're grappling with comparison for the first time in, like, the elementary years. Right? Because earlier on in their lives, everything that they did was perfect and awesome, and everyone gets their homework and their their their work up on the board, and everyone gets a gold star.

Speaker 2:

But then there's a point where not everybody makes a team, not everybody wins. There's there are losers, and they have to grapple for the very first time in their lives this comparison. Wow.

Speaker 1:

That's really interesting.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean? Like, we don't think about that because it's been so many years as Yeah. Because we're adults. But this is, like, when our kids are experiencing it the most. And so that's where these sort of, like, do I have questions.

Speaker 2:

That's sort of when they're first born. And so as a mentor, the one of the best things that you can do is engage their interests. It's what this this project found is you make sure that they know that they have your undivided attention and that you know what they like, and you like what they like, and you care about what they what they care about.

Speaker 1:

Really good.

Speaker 2:

And that's, I mean, that's a that's a unique thing that's happening in their little hearts and their little bodies that you can speak to, you know, in that in that particular phase.

Speaker 1:

That's that's amazing. If you have been listening for a while, we did a series on that's called relationships change lives. And our first one of our first episodes on that series was, the relational need of attention. Yeah. And I hope that we sound like a broken record.

Speaker 1:

Like, I Mhmm. I hope that this podcast that you hear mentors, that you hear the same things over and over and over again, but in totally new ways. Like, this, I never would have this is like the same principle of giving them your undivided attention. But I love this, Daniel, because it is like, oh, it is because at their core, they're asking these questions Mhmm. And that they need like, they don't just need attention.

Speaker 1:

They need it because, like, developmentally, they

Speaker 2:

need it. It's all yeah. They're changing in so many different ways. Like, not just physically, but, yeah, mentally Yeah. And, spiritually and culturally.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Like, they're always changing. Yeah. And how

Speaker 1:

we as mentors, like, oh my gosh. What a what a burden in, like, the most crazy awesome way

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Do do we have to invite those questions and to, like, acknowledge those questions and to participate in those things. And even just to know, like, that's just helpful for me. And, like, oh, okay. I know that when the 3rd 4th graders are asking, hey, can I show you this?

Speaker 1:

Can I show you this? Can I, like, teach you this? It is more than just because they want to, but it is because there is this core need of figuring out something within themselves.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So that's really good.

Speaker 2:

Well and to remember too that, like, this is the only time in their life where that question is gonna matter the most Wow. Because that question changes the next year. You know? And as they get older, like, in every single year and every passing phase, as they they continue to change and their their desires, their core questions change as well, and it becomes a lot more about their identity and whether they're liked and who are they, you know, like, who you know what I mean? Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So you, as a mentor, only have a very you have a window Yeah. Where you can speak into those core questions before That's amazing. Before they change. Yeah. So it is so fascinating.

Speaker 2:

It feels like a burden, but it's also just like this amazing opportunity, you know, because you know that you can speak in to something that, like, meeting them right where they Yes. Right right where they are. Yes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Wow. And think about how many people just don't know that. Like, I didn't know that until right now of, like, just specific questions

Speaker 2:

every year.

Speaker 1:

And I just think it just kinda changes the game.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Check out the Faze project.

Speaker 1:

The Faze project. They will add that in the in the show notes too. That is amazing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So, like, right now with my girls, like I mean, it used to be My Little Pony, so I had to just, like, really be on my My Little Pony game. Like, I had to know that, like, I had to know, like, all about, like, Twilight Sparkle being the princess of friendship. And I have to have my own favorite, you know, pony. But now, like, again, they keep changing.

Speaker 2:

And now it's all about k pop. So I'm having to, like, really be on my k pop game these days.

Speaker 1:

That is so funny. That's amazing. Yeah. My little brother is definitely in the fish phase.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. What kind of fish does he have?

Speaker 1:

He has, like, nitro something. They glow in the dark.

Speaker 2:

Tetras? Does he have Tetras? Yeah. I have Tetras.

Speaker 1:

You do?

Speaker 2:

Yes. I have 6, and they're the Power Rangers. They're all named after the original Power Rangers.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh. Well, Henry has, like, he has, like, a mini puffer fish. It it's like he has, like, 50 fish. It's just absurd. But he got I think I guess, Tetra.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I think he got, like, 14 for his birthday

Speaker 2:

or something. That is amazing. Yeah. Wow. How big is his tank?

Speaker 1:

Not big enough.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah. Because they definitely say that, like, you can't have that many if you don't have, like, a big enough tank.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's like big, but it's not big enough for his, like, 50 fish. Oh, it's nice. Yeah. Anyways

Speaker 2:

But yeah. I mean, when you show but when you show interest in that, like, that yeah. There's so much joy Mhmm. In them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. He has them all, coated on the side of the tank so that no one forgets their names.

Speaker 2:

That's incredible. I love that. Yeah. And when you know their fish's name, I mean, that's like It's a big deal. That makes them feel like, man, I'm I'm important enough.

Speaker 2:

Like, you know my fish's fish's name. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Seriously. So mentors learn all the names of all of your mentee's fish.

Speaker 2:

Yes. That's the That

Speaker 1:

is the takeaway from today. Story. Yes. We've talked about what it means to show up predictably and mentally. I do wanna talk about what it looks like to show up randomly.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Because that's okay in a mentoring relationship. Like, we talk a lot about, structure and consistency and the importance of that. But, again, spontaneity is good. And just it always means so much when someone just shows up, at least for me.

Speaker 1:

Like, when someone just shows up to my house, if it's a friend, I'm like, oh, this may not be the most perfect time, but I'm still so glad to see you.

Speaker 2:

And so

Speaker 1:

what does it look like to have these random show ups?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. To me, showing up randomly is my favorite one because it's I think it has the most potential to be the most impactful or the most powerful in a kid's life. Wow. And I know that sometimes, like, when you think about it, I think for a mentor, initially, the first reaction is like, oh, okay. So that means that I need to take more time than the time that I've already allotted for my for my mentor or for my mentee.

Speaker 2:

And can I can I even do that? Like, does that mean I have to show up at every baseball game? And no. Like, it's it could be so much more simple than that and still make, like, the greatest impact. So when we talk about showing up randomly, it's it could be a phone call because you remembered that they talked about a test the last time that you were together.

Speaker 2:

And so maybe, like, you called in the night before real quick just to be like, hey. I just want you to know that I'm praying for you. Like, I know that you have this test tomorrow. It can be a, a postcard. You know, like, postcards are my absolute favorite things to do with with kids.

Speaker 2:

And maybe this is like me showing my age and, like, the power of snail mail. But I still think that when a kid gets a piece of mail and their name is on it, and like, it's just like sitting among their parents pile of bills, but like, there's something in there for them. To me, like, I think that that speaks so much value. And it's, it makes them so excited to know that like, you were thinking of them. And that's really to me, like, that's the power of showing up randomly is that your kid will know that you were thinking about them

Speaker 1:

when you didn't have to.

Speaker 2:

That's really, really good. And so the postcard is, an opportunity. The reason I love the postcard is because, like, a, they're getting mail, but, b, like, your their parent sees that. So that's a huge win for the parent. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That. Mhmm.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And then you're using

Speaker 1:

those the content of the postcard too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I just think it's a big deal, especially at the beginning of your relationship where it is open communication

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Between you and mentee and caregiver knows every single thing

Speaker 2:

Mhmm. That's going

Speaker 1:

on. That doesn't mean you, like, type up the, you know, the dialogue of your time with mentee, but that is, like, you're allowing the caregiver to know, okay. This person is legit. This person Yeah. Why does this kid why does this person want to be in my kid's life?

Speaker 1:

And even, like, the postcard, parents will probably read that

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And give that to mentee. And they're like, okay. I know that this is this guy, this girl is good news.

Speaker 2:

Is legit. Yeah. They yeah. And it speaks yeah. It speaks so much.

Speaker 2:

I mean, for a parent, like, especially as a dad, like, nothing makes me more happy and proud. You know, just grateful for like the church when when someone who is not another adult, a caring adult who is not me, like shows that kind of interest in my own kid because simply because they just think they're awesome because they love them. Yeah. Like, that is literally, like, one of the most beautiful expressions, I think, of the church, right, that that we can dig into. So yeah.

Speaker 2:

But, I mean, it's but that's so simple. It literally, like, cost sense to, like, get a postcard and mail it. Yes. But it speaks so much value, and it's something that they can hold on to. It's something they can keep.

Speaker 2:

It's something that, like, is physical that will remind them, like, of how much you as a mentor, like, mean to them. And I think too, another, like, super practical thing is that, like, in this digital age, I think it's, like, the it's almost the easiest thing to do is to show up randomly. Like, I always think about last year when we sat here in the office, and we were watching, we're there's that Marco Polo app. And we're watching Liam talk to his mentor over the Marco Polo app, right. And it was literally just like the simplest like, you know, this app, like you just share messages back and forth, like the parent is on the parents phones at the great way to, you know, keep the parent in the loop.

Speaker 2:

But it was the sweetest thing to watch Liam, like, just sit there and like, talk about his soccer cleats with his mentor, you know, and it was so simple, and didn't take much time at all. But like, I could tell it meant the world to that kid. Yeah, you know, just to like, be able to sit there and and rattle off all his, like, soccer knowledge to his mentor. And his mentor happens to be, like, a soccer stud himself. And Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It was a deal. Yeah. I love that. And then all that made me think was, man, that literally takes no time. Like, it's

Speaker 1:

just app.

Speaker 2:

And they just, like, shot each other messages back and forth and are literally just talking about soccer cleats. But I don't think Liam will ever forget No. That conversation and that interaction with his mentor. Because that they had just started. They had just started doing that.

Speaker 1:

And it's just little little stuff.

Speaker 2:

Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

Like, another example that's pretty similar, but, I I used to work, in the camp world, the summer camp world for a very long time. Something that I did with a child's mom is I would send like, I'd be literally riding on the golf court or golf, golf cart too, like, this kid's favorite activity at camp. And I'd, like, had this great relationship with her while she was there. And every time I had to go to it was, like, the big, tall vertical playground. And every time I would go to the vertical playground, I would, like, send her a video of me being, like, hey.

Speaker 1:

Just to let you know, like, I miss you and hope you're doing great. Like Yeah. Can't wait for you to come back.

Speaker 2:

That's so

Speaker 1:

cool. And then just send that video to mom. It was, like, every single time. And so, obviously, you may not be, like, at a vertical playground. But if there is something that your kid loves and has expressed love for, whether it's, like, whether it's a football team or whether it is, like, just something so small, whether it is, like, a favorite candy or just something little.

Speaker 1:

Like, if you send your kid a picture of, like, like, if they love the Chiefs right now and the Chiefs are gonna win the Super Bowl, and if you see, like, a Chiefs, like, billboard or something, and you just send them a picture of it, they're like, oh Yeah. My mentor is thinking about me, or this reminded them about me. And we all, like, even me now, I feel so loved and known Yes. When I get those texts, when I get those messages from friends, from family, when it's like, oh, this thing made them think about me. And they took the time Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

The literally 30 seconds to just tell me Yep. To just tell me that they were thinking about me. Yeah. And when we can do that, I love I love the whole idea of showing up randomly because we know that you can do it. But I think it's really helpful to kinda have a category Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

For it in mentoring because just life revolves around our schedule.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

When you can think about your mentoring relationship outside of the structure, because that's not really how our other relationships work. The relationship that you have with your daughters, it's not confined to your time around them. Like, you're you are thinking about them all the time. Yep. You're mentoring relationship, you're not around them all the time.

Speaker 1:

And so to have a category of of your relationship that is just this random

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I think is helpful for me in my head to think, okay. I am not confined to this hour or this phone call or this like, I can interact with them in other ways that are just as meaningful.

Speaker 2:

Yes. Well, in a lot of ways, they have the potential to be more meaningful. That's the thing. It's like we think that, you know, maybe the dedicated hour or whatever that we spend with them is, like, the most important thing. And we're gonna have, like, this life changing conversation.

Speaker 2:

And they're never gonna forget the this hour that we spent with each other today. But then, like, a week later, they get, you know, yeah, like, this photo of the Chiefs billboard. And they're like and 20 years later, they're like, the best thing that my mentor I remember ever did for me was I'll just never forget that, like, he one time sent me a text of a chief billboard. And you may have had, like, so many life changing conversations in your designated mentoring time, but, like, there's so much power in that experience where, like, your kid realizes that you're thinking about them outside Yes. Of the of the dedicated time that you guys already spend together.

Speaker 1:

In every single interview that we've done on this podcast, when we've asked the question of what did your mentor do

Speaker 2:

Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

That meant something to you, it was it's never been, well, he sat me down and we had this one conversation. It has been these little things Yep. That their mentors have done. Find the little thing that you can do consistently. Literally pray.

Speaker 1:

Every time we talk about it, it's always been like one thing Yeah. That really sticks out.

Speaker 2:

The smallest things that make the biggest impact sometimes, which is such a weird thing, but it's so, so true.

Speaker 1:

Well, I just wanna give you space to share any other thoughts that you have about just this idea of different ways to show up. And when we think about showing up, how we can kind of look at it from all these different angles. So Yeah. Just wanna give you

Speaker 2:

some Thanks. You know, honestly, the only the only thing that I think about because, again, I'm a mentor, and sometimes all I can do is, like, focus on my shortcomings. Right? Mhmm. That's just, like, my thing.

Speaker 2:

And so when I when I hear about, like, all these awesome ways to show up, all I can think about sometimes is, like, the times that I haven't. And or I think about how how, how I'm afraid to mess up, or I'm afraid, like, I won't maybe step into a a mentor relationship because I'm afraid that I won't show up. And God was really kind to me this week because, like, he knew that I would be on this podcast. Right? Like, talking about the importance of showing up.

Speaker 2:

I he actually, like, made me go through this thing, like, 2 days ago with my own kids where, like, I didn't show up for them. Wow. Yeah. Like, literally 2 days ago. Like, I have this standing appointment with my girls, and I literally just forgot.

Speaker 2:

Like, I just missed it. Like, it's, you know, it's holiday week. Like, all day Monday. All day Tuesday, I thought it was Monday. So I just I I messed up though.

Speaker 2:

And I remember I I beat myself up for, like, 3 hours that night. Just like, I can't believe I I forgot. I can't believe like, who and then, like, you're a fraud. Like, you what's wrong with you? You're a wreck.

Speaker 2:

Like, you're gonna go on this podcast to talk about showing up, and, like, you didn't even show up for your kids this week. Like, that was literally, like, that's the voice of shame. That's the enemy. Like, whatever you wanna call it. Right?

Speaker 2:

But I feel like the Lord was so kind to to have me, like, really walk through that because I think on the other side of that, you know, once I I prayed about it and and and that night, I was laying in bed thinking, okay. Like, how can I make this up to them? Okay. I'm gonna cancel something I have in the afternoon tomorrow, and I'm just gonna go to lunch. I'm gonna show up at school, and and I'll just I'll go to lunch with them.

Speaker 2:

And I decided, like, to bring their favorite snack or whatever. And I got the opportunity to, like, sit in front of my kid. And, you know, at the end of the day, like, it wasn't even that big of a deal to them. But I still I felt so bad. So I got I got the opportunity to sit across from them and just look in their eyes and be like, man, I am I am so sorry.

Speaker 2:

Like, I did not show up when I was supposed to. I feel terrible. Like, will you please forgive me? Wow. You know?

Speaker 2:

And they're looking at me, and they're like, oh, daddy. Yeah. Of course. Like, of course, I forgive you. You know?

Speaker 2:

And so sometimes we we may have moments where we don't show up, but, like, that is also a an incredible opportunity for you to experience, like, the forgiveness of Jesus, right, and just, like, the power of grace and the power of forgiveness. And that's what I got in that moment this literally yesterday Mhmm. Where I got to ask for my my daughter's forgiveness. And they they were like, yes. Of course.

Speaker 2:

And and I was like, okay. I get it. I get it. Like, I'm not gonna be perfect all the time. I may not always show up.

Speaker 2:

But, instead of just, like, beating ourselves up about it and not doing any anything about it, like, allow the Lord to use it as as a as a lesson in

Speaker 1:

It's really good.

Speaker 2:

And experiencing what it's like to, like, receive forgiveness from your kid. Like, that was awesome for me. I love that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. That's amazing. Well, Daniel, thank you. This was amazing. Yay.

Speaker 1:

It was awesome. Just to kinda recap a little bit. So we've, we covered kinda 3 main parts of showing up. And so what does it look like to show up predictably, mentally, and randomly? Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

And we talked a lot too about just being physically present and, the importance of that. And so I hope that you heard that. I hope that you were encouraged, and challenged. I know I was. And so, Daniel, thank you so much for being willing to come on here and share.

Speaker 1:

And I just loved having you back on the podcast. Of course. Yeah. It was awesome.

Speaker 2:

Oh, it was so much fun.

Speaker 1:

So, hope you took something away from it. But if you didn't take anything away from what we talked about, make sure you take away this. You can mentor.

Speaker 2:

Alright. You can mentor.