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The Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. Author and lead pastor of Sandals Church, Matt Brown debriefs current issues shaping our culture from a spiritual perspective.
Welcome to the debrief podcast with Matt Brown. The podcast where pastor and author Matt Brown debriefs your questions about Christianity and current issues shaping our culture. Thank you for listening, and enjoy the show.
Donna Martin:Hey. Hey. It's good to be back. Welcome, everybody, to another episode of the debrief.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. I've missed I
Donna Martin:missed you too. It's been great. It's been a while, but you've had an amazing time. John Bevere.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Oh, yeah.
Donna Martin:I mean, marriage, everything. Pastor Tammy has been on here. It's been awesome. Right?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's been fun, but you were missed.
Donna Martin:Thank you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So
Donna Martin:Thank you. I'm happy to be here. There's so much been going on. Your book is amazing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Thank you. Oh, did you read it?
Donna Martin:I haven't read all of it. Okay. I'm reading I usually am reading two books at one time Oh, yeah. No. I know.
Donna Martin:And so I can only get, like, a line or two in at a time, but I did buy it. It is amazing. And and because I follow so many of our church members on social media, I'm, like, reading such great feedback. Are you getting yeah?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Great feedback. I only got one negative review, but that we found out who that person was. Oh. And they're they're anti Christian, so they didn't read the book.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:They just They took it down. And so if that person is probably watching, thank you for doing the right thing.
Donna Martin:Yeah. That's They took it down. Yeah. That's awesome.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But, you know, I mean, you know, and if you're an atheist and you're watching this program, you're more than welcome. You know, I can't force belief on you, but Right. Let us talk about what we believe, and, you know, maybe God will speak to you.
Donna Martin:Yeah. The series has been so good. So many amazing people coming up to the altar for prayer and beginning to pray with a lot of people. After them hearing like, you building their faith for miracles every single week. It is just awesome.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So that's great.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Alright. You ready? Yes. We're about to get into these.
Donna Martin:This is Annie Moss.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. We love
Donna Martin:We love her from Atlanta, Georgia. And she says, I'm going through a very hard season of life, and I'm finding it difficult to pray. I'm in the word and worshiping God, but I find myself at a loss of words when it comes to prayer. Mhmm. I wanna pray in a powerful way for God to move and bring supernatural change to situations that seem dire, but I don't know how.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Annie Moss, love you. Thank you for trusting us with this.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:This is why a pastor is so important. A podcast is not a pastor, and really somebody to kinda sit down and just explore what's going on, what's happening in your life. And so if you're new to Christianity, here's the thing that we gotta be honest with. What's happening around us affects our relationship with God. I wish that wasn't true, but, like, when I feel sick, like, was sick yesterday, didn't feel like praying.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. Because I was sick. I wish that when I had the flu, was like, I'm gonna pray today,
Donna Martin:but
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I just wanna lie in bed all day. If I feel anxious, depressed, overwhelmed, those things those things impact my prayer life. So what I would do is just say, okay. What's happening around me that's impacting what's going what God wants to do inside me? So and I would just write that out.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And, you know, you don't have to talk directly to God. You can prepare for prayer. And so that's what I do when I feel like I'm stuck in prayers. I prepare for prayer. And you're like, what is Well, like, if, you know, with you and Devon, if if you're gonna have a conversation, and you know what I'm talking about.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's like a conversation. So with Tammy, I'll prepare. Okay. I wanna make sure that I'm clear, I'm not overly emotional, and I'll prepare for this conversation that's happening. And you can do the same thing with the Lord, and just say, okay, you know, Lord, I want I wanna talk about this later Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But I don't have the energy, I don't feel the connection, or whatever. And so I would prepare to pray, and then and that's what a lot of people believe that the Lord's Prayer is. Our Father, art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, that it's like a guide Yeah. To kinda prepare for what we're we're talking about. And so what I would just say is, I think that a relationship with God is is a relationship with God.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It can be on fire, and it can be lukewarm. And that's just that's just the reality. And so just say, God, I feel distant. I don't feel you. And then say how you want to feel God Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Specifically. Because sometimes I think we have personalities that come with expectations. You know, you have the friends that I talk to God all day, every day, and I'm like, okay. You know? You know, that's their personality, but don't put that on everybody else.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, they have to experience God in that way. And so what is my personality? What is God? And then what I would just say let me just share, and I'm sure, you know, Annie, you know this verse, Romans eight twenty six and twenty seven, that the Holy Spirit prays for us basically when we run out of words. And so here's what I would just say is, you know, a lot of times when we think of praying in the Spirit, we think of praying in tongues.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Okay? That's a part of that. But we can just pray in the Spirit and say, Holy Spirit, pray for me. Mhmm. We can invite the Spirit to pray for us.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Sit in silence. There may be some words. There may be some sounds. There may just be quiet. But here's the thing that that Romans promises us.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:When we run out of words, the Holy Spirit is active. And so I would say trust in that, believe in that, and sit in that. And it's okay to sit in silence. It's okay to be quiet and just be in God's presence, and that's okay. And say, Holy Spirit, I'm out of words.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I'm out of thoughts. Would you would you pray for me? Because of course the Holy Spirit's gonna do that. That is his role. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so I just would invite him in that. And so just really kinda pour over those two verses, twenty six and twenty seven, and what would prayer look like without words? Because that's what he's talking about, when when words can't express what I what I wanna say. And and we experience that, you know, I think about my kids or my wife or, you know, my my dad being sick. You know, when I wanna talk about how I'm feeling, sometimes, like, just emotion hits.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. And that's okay. God can experience that. But, you know, the Holy Spirit will help me talk to my Father in heaven. And and, you know, I have a good friend of mine, whenever he talks, he he starts crying, and he's like, I hate this because it it keeps me from talking.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. But with with God, we have the Holy Spirit that's like, you know what? I understand. Absolutely. I just would really, really press into the Holy Spirit.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And and again, speaking in tongues is a part of it, but it's not all of it. The Holy Spirit is present in all of our prayers when we you are using words, when we're speaking in tongues, when we're sitting in silence, when we're weeping, when we're groaning, and and when we're hurting. And so have you ever gone through a season where you felt like it was hard for you to
Donna Martin:Oh, yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Okay. The current Okay. Season.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Was just sharing with pastor Matt some of the things that we're walking through, and there are some days where I'm just like, holy spirit, I don't even know. I don't even I don't even know. I don't know. There's so many things going on.
Donna Martin:I don't even know what to pray in this moment. And and a lot of times, it's me getting in the sunshine, walking with God, listening to worship music, and just worshiping my way through whatever Mhmm. Is happening that day.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So, yeah. That's such a good word. Yeah. And just animos, know it's normal.
Donna Martin:Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, I I I don't like to be around Christians that act like that's never happened.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And then, you know, we we just gotta be careful that we don't make people feel intimidated with their prayer life. So I'll be praying for you, Annie Moss in Atlanta, Georgia. I just was with on the phone with a pastor on Friday, Reese Stinner. So he is Welsh. So he spells his name r h y s.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Oh, wow. So the Welsh don't use vowels, and he would say that w or y is a vowel, and I would say, I beg to differ. But, yeah, so his church is there. It's a great church, great guy. God is moving in Atlanta again.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Wow. Super excited to see what God's doing in Atlanta, Georgia. Just talked about a lot of healing, a lot of racial reconciliation healing. You know, the last couple years, he says, it's been very divisive in Atlanta, because I didn't realize how black Atlanta is. Huge.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And he's a white pastor
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:From England.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So he's not even American.
Donna Martin:Yeah. That might be like an advantage.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. But he said he still he still had to walk through that Wow. And lost good friends, but he just said the Holy Spirit's moving again, and Good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:God is healing, they're growing, and so I love Reese, and he's just he's one of those guys that you're like, why am I not English? You know, when I preach. Because they just sound so smart and so calming, you know, like the counselor we had on Mark Right. Is from England. And everything he says, even if it's like, ugh, you're like, oh, that's so wise.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. So soothing. And then we just sound like cackling Americans.
Donna Martin:So Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Great question. Thank you so much, Annie Moss.
Donna Martin:Alright. This is Nick from Riverside. Hello, Nick. Hey, Nick. Why are multiple verses missing or removed from modern translations of the Bible?
Donna Martin:But he's got quite a few here, and I didn't have an opportunity to look all of these up and see what he was talking about. But
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So I did, Nick. I looked up all these verses. And so here's what I would say is the King James Version, let's just put a stamp on it of the sixteenth century, that's when it is written and inspired. And so there's been so many more discoveries of manuscripts in the last four hundred years.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I mean, to the tune of thousands. Mhmm. And and some of these manuscripts are a couple 100 years older, some of these manuscripts are a thousand years older. In in the case of the Dead Sea Scrolls, we go back in time with our Hebrew translation a thousand years. I just think about that for a So here's the thinking in modern scholarship.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The older the text, the more accurate it is. And so when the King James was written, right, I'm I'm not knocking the King James, I don't I think it's beautiful language, I don't use it personally for my discipleship. You know, there's a lot of well meaning, uneducated pastors that say it's the only authorized version. That's not actually true. There were other authorized versions that were actually more revered amongst Christianity until the King James, you know, version came out.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It just kinda became the most popular version in America. And and and again, I'm not knocking it. It's a beautiful translation. It's very, very poetic English. It's a beautiful thing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But there are texts, and so let's look at, like, Matthew seventeen twenty one, the first verse that you talk about. And so here's what I believe happened, is that over time, while the scribes are translating the Scriptures, they make mistakes. Any pastor that tells you that is not true is not being academically honest with you, and it's so important Mhmm. That you do not lie to your children and tell them that the Bible translations are perfect. It's just not true.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And that's why a lot of these kids go to college, and they lose their faith. Anything that human beings touch
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We mess up. So then they say so so here's where in our Western minds, well, it's not perfect. How can it be reliable? And so here's what I would say. The Bible we have is the Bible God wants us to have.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. And it is trustworthy. We don't worship the book. We worship the God that the book reveals. Amen.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And that is Jesus. He is the word of God incarnate. It's the word of God who came to dwell amongst us. And so let me just say this. There aren't any variants or questions about the nature of Jesus, the church, the mission.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:There's no question about how you're to be saved. There's these slight things, like in Matthew seventeen twenty one. When I pray, why doesn't God do what it seems like he says? Because there's a passage that says whenever you ask for something in my name, it will happen. And then there are instances, we all know Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Where we've asked God for something, and it didn't happen. So the question is why. So here's what I think happened in Matthew seventeen twenty one. He's trying to make sense with what Mark says, and the Gospel of Mark says that sometimes when we pray, if we're serious, you know, we need to fast. And so I think a scribe is trying to reconcile that, puts a note, right, up in the margin, above the text, and then just over time, as the paper gets old and somebody's trying to translate it, somebody else sees that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Remember, you know, glasses are a relatively new thing. You're looking at an aging piece of paper with aging ink. And sometimes, by the way, Donna, don't know if you know this, they rewrite over the old manuscripts. So one of the ways, I don't know if you guys knew this, that we found old manuscripts is they held the manuscripts up to an X-ray light
Donna Martin:Oh, wow.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And they realized there was an older text that had faded underneath it. So we have a text that say, is sixth century. Now, again, I want everybody to remember, we're talking about paper. Right. Think about think about our our yearbooks from high school.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. Not yours, but mine is looking mine is looking a little aged. So we're we're talking about miraculous stuff here, that these things lasted. Think about fires. They used candlelight.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, the Bible is truly a miracle of God that we have it. And so then they hold it up, and they go, oh, wait a minute. There's a whole another text here that that predates it by several 100 years. Then there's these these little teenage kids, gotta love teenagers, and they're smoking something in Egypt. And they like it because of the way it smells.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so some archaeologist goes, what are you guys smoking? Because the the paper has a very distinct smell.
Donna Martin:Wow.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And he realizes it's papyrus paper. So that's how the Egyptians wrote on things. Right. So he offers to buy the papyrus cigarettes from these kids, and he buys them, and he unravels them in its scripture. Oh, my gosh.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's the word of God. They're like, this It's smells literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years older than anything that we've ever had.
Donna Martin:That's amazing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so what we do is we can compare, and this is why I would say, you know, like, my Muslim friends try to say, well, we have we have one translation. Yep. And that's actually a problem, because you can't you can't check for errors. What we have in Christianity is we have 27,000 copies of our Scriptures in Coptic, which is in Egypt, in Syrian Syriac. We have it in Latin.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We have it in Romanian. We have it in Russian. We have it in Greek. We and you can look at all of these things, and you can go, oh, okay. Here's where we think the mistake was made, and we can trace it back.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And actually, what it helps us to do is produce the most authentic example of, okay, this is this is God's word. And so what new translations do is if they pull it out, it's probably just like in the case of Matthew seventeen twenty one. It's not anywhere for a thousand years, and then all of a sudden, shows up. And so what people who believe in the King James said is, well, you're taking God's word out. And what I would say is, okay, we may have put something that wasn't God's word in.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. So like my sermons, hopefully, you know, you feel they're inspired, hopefully, you you learn from God. They're not on par with God's Word. In the same way, a scribe's note
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Is not on par with God's Word. So let's not pretend it's God's Word. Let's let it be the note that it is. And so that's typically what you have, and, you know, they're just they're, you know, there's slight variance, slight things. There's a scholar from oh, man.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:What what? Pepperdine. His name was Medskirt. I don't remember his first name. They'll put it in the show notes, but he said he looked at all the manuscripts, and he said that they're over 98.9% identical, over 26,700 manuscripts.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Wow. Now, there are mistakes. People make mistakes.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And these scholars did the best they can, you know. But like, if I said, Donna, I want you to copy this word for word perfectly, and I gave you something that was 50,000 words. Like, think about just when you're typing, you're gonna make a mistake, and there's an autocorrect that's catching that. Even when I was reading my book, I saw a mistake. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I've had I don't know how many editors pour over my book, and I went, oh. And so that happens. And now now let's say there's no spacing. Yeah. So in in the manuscripts, it's all caps, so you have to know when the sentence begins, when it ends.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:There's no period. It's all capital letters, and it they're meticulous writing in bad light without glasses. Praise God Yeah. We have something. We have the text that we have.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so so, Nick, that's the answer. Now, can
Donna Martin:That's good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You can YouTube that and find a thousand King James only guys that are gonna tell you that I'm wrong and I'm awful. And what I try to do on this show is just say, look, here's the facts as best I understand them. I don't have a horse in the game. I don't, right now, I'm I'm currently reading through the the excuse me, not the English Standard Version, the Christian Standard Bible. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It used to be the Broadman Broadman Holman. I really like their translation. And and here's why, you know, people say, well, why do we have so many translations? Because language is changing. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Absolutely. Like, my, you know, my daughter sitting right there is, you know, in her twenties, she uses language I don't understand, but then she tells me, the kids today are using language she doesn't understand. Absolutely. And I'm like, okay. You know, like, I did this this thing with the youth, and they're like, what does the Riz mean?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You got the Riz. I had no idea. Like, I was like, I I don't know. Language is constantly changing, and so what we need is the Bible constantly needs to be retranslated so that not so that the texts change, but so that the way we use words change. You know, think about the word gay.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. That how that word has changed in fifty years. It used to mean happy, now it means homosexual. So same word Right. Same meaning, but but it's changed.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so that's in a short period of fifty years. You know, what's happened over a period of five hundred years, a period of a thousand years? And the truth is, you know, King James English is really, really difficult to to understand. Mhmm. And the reason I don't use it is because then what I end up doing is translating English to people who speak English.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. And it makes me sound smart, but I think it's it's it's not helpful. And let me say this, the scholars we have today are fantastic, and they're doing the best they can. And, you know, whenever there's a disagreement, if you look down in the notes, they'll always say, okay Right. You know, some on the committee really feel like it should be translated this.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But, you know, I I there's no controversial verse where it says Jesus isn't God, Jesus didn't die, Jesus didn't love you. Like, all of those, those aren't where the the errors are. It's it's literally, when we pray, how do we do this? There's some questions about women in leadership. There's some questions about, you know, specifics in regards to church practice, and very, very finite and specific things, and we do the best that we can Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:To interpret these things. So Nick, that's a great, great question. Great question. I hope that helps, but let let me just say this. I trust the Bible.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I I believe in it. I trust it. I believe God speaks to me. So it's the Bible God wants us to have, and I think it's the Bible you need to read, and it will reveal everything you need to know about God. And that's not me just, you know, drinking the juice.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, really looked at this stuff, and I go, okay. But there are people who've looked at the same evidence. I I think, like, I think his name is Carl Bart? Bartman? No.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Bartman. Yeah. There's a guy named Bartman, a scholar right now who's living. Bart's dead. You know, who looked at the same evidence I did, and he lost his faith.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So but that wasn't me. I mean, to me, you know, God can work through imperfect people. And, you know, again, we don't worship the word of God, we worship Jesus, who is the incarnate word of God. And so that's what it says.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so I know that's tough for some people, but, you know, there are errors. So like the not errors. There are discrepancies. So in our Bibles, says that Goliath was nine feet tall Mhmm. In the the oh, my gosh.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The the the Qumran documents. What's it called? Oh, I should have prepped all these guys. The they found documents at Qumran, which is a little cave outside the Dead Sea, and it says he's six foot nine.
Donna Martin:Oh, okay.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Is he nine foot six, or is he He's huge. Six foot He's a big dude. Yeah. He's a big dude. But there's no manuscript that says Goliath was made up.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's just like, look, he he's really, really tall, and, you know, I don't know that they someone measured him. You know? Mean, they may have Nine Nine six. Six. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So Dead Sea Scrolls. Sorry. Mhmm. The Dead Sea Scrolls are found outside of a a small Jewish religious group at Qumran in Israel, and their Goliath is a little shorter.
Donna Martin:Just a little bit.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. But he exists. Six foot nine.
Donna Martin:No. Yeah. Either? Yeah. Neither one.
Donna Martin:Okay. Awesome. Thank you so much. That was a really great question, Nick. Appreciate it.
Donna Martin:Alright. This is Gail k s c. That's her Instagram handle.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Donna Martin:Says, aren't dating apps just another way of prioritizing and idolizing marriage over God's mission? Shouldn't we allow God to decide if he wants us to be married or not? Also, what is the role this is a lot of questions. Okay?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Also I know it's like six questions, Gail.
Donna Martin:What is the role of single people supposed to be in the church? Surely, are reason why reasons why God chooses for a person to be single. Surely, singleness doesn't just mean sitting around or going around looking for a spouse.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Yeah. Gail, lot going on here. So let's start with your first question. The dating apps.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I like how you're sneaky, Gail. That was good. Yeah. Aren't dating apps just another way of prioritizing and idolizing marriage over God's mission? I think they could be.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Sure. But I think dating apps are a great way to find people who are interested in marriage. So one of the awkward parts of dating is, you know, like, you're kinda cute. I like you. Do you like me?
Donna Martin:Like Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So the dating app kind of helps that process. You know, it doesn't help you get along, but it helps you find out if they're interested. And the most awkward part of dating is, are they interested? Mhmm. So I think dating apps are very helpful.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:They are problematic because you can fall in love with an image, an online personality. What do they call it? You can get Catfished. Catfished. Those things can happen.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So there are problems with dating apps, but I would not say that they are idolizing. I would say every individual believer, Gail, has to say, am I idolizing marriage over my mission? Because God's mission for your life isn't to be married, it's to follow him and share his word. So I would just be really, really careful about just kind of, like, saying it's all bad. I think it can be very, very helpful, but I have seen people in our church who've been very, very wounded by it, because, you know, I mean, there's just an advantage of like, Tammy and met her when she was 18, I I knew people who knew her.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, you know, I'm not dating somebody who's 40 on an app who appears on a page, and I don't know their story. And let's be honest, we're all a little better on social media than we are. Mean, you know, we tend to put our best foot forward. So, okay, shouldn't we allow God decide if he wants to be married or not? So what I would say, Gail, is, well, how would God do that?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, you know, because I because what I believe is is that people decide. I think God has said you can be married or not be married. Mhmm. I would not say that God is deciding for you to be married or not married. I would say God has given that decision to you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And then if you have a passion to be married, God has given you guidelines. Mhmm. So a believer, someone who's gonna be on mission with you, someone who can compliment your calling and not pull you away. Mhmm. You know, oftentimes when we think of unequally yoked, Christians, think, think, okay, Christian, good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Check.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, but, like, God forbid my wife ever, you know, died. But just, you know, for me, you know, dating someone else equally yoked would be, who on earth would I want to have to be a pastor's wife? Yeah. I mean, my poor wife has suffered greatly for that. My kids are a huge priority for me, you know, I wouldn't wanna break.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So on so yoked for me has a lot more categories than just
Donna Martin:Christian. Christian.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. Mhmm. Healthy. Right. Know?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know? Not crazy. Yeah. Not crazy. That's a that's a good one.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:No. It's it's a good one. And some of you, I feel like, needed just laid out something. You needed that. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because even somebody who loves Jesus can So, be you know, on Easter, we're talking about Mary Magdalene. I'm not sure I would've wanted to date her.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know? So appreciate her. The Lord did a work in her,
Donna Martin:but Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Gonna love you, sister, from afar. Right. So so what I would say is, you know, don't put that off on God. I would say, God, I wanna be married, or God, I'm not sure I wanna be married, or God, are you calling me to be single? Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So because God called Paul, called Jeremiah, called Jesus to be single, and and that happens. So also, what's the role of single people supposed to be in the church? Man, you should've just snuck in. And what I would say what I would say is the same role as married people. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, we had a single guy over at our house for Saint Patty's Day, and I was telling my wife after he went home, I'm so thankful for him, because he's been a bit he's been able to be available to our family in a unique way that married people can't.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And he's been there for my kids for years on in. Mhmm. And I'm just so grateful that my kids have him in their life, and I don't believe he could do it in the same way if he was married. Right. And so, you know, the beautiful thing about being single is you can do what you want to do.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, as a married person, I'm constantly checking with my wife. Hey, what do you think about? What do you think about? You know, I I literally I got invited to study at Oxford in May. Wow.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And the guy said, just do it. He's like, you're a megachurch pastor. I said, I'm a married pastor.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so I'm gonna check with my wife. Right.
Donna Martin:And I
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:could you know, this guy was kinda like, really? I'm like, yeah,
Donna Martin:really. Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know? And so I appreciate the invitation, but I wanna make sure that it aligns with Yeah. Absolutely. Her vision for what our month of May looks like. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know what I'm saying? And so and and by the way, young Matt Brown would have just signed up Mhmm. And then had a huge fight about it. But older, wiser Matt Brown has learned, it doesn't matter the opportunity, we are one flesh, we have to make these decisions together, and so that was important. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I would just say, Gail, serve the Lord, man. Yeah. You know, find as many ways and as opportunities, and and make the church your family in every way that you can, because I think that's a beautiful, beautiful season that a lot of single people, I think, are missing out on because they think they gotta be married when the reality is the marriage we're all looking forward to is when Christ returns. That's good. Any thoughts before we jump to the next one?
Donna Martin:I think that's really good. I love the beauty of singleness is being able to just you can do anything Jesus wants you to do in this moment. You can go all in. There there really nothing holding you back except for, you know, other things, but you've got this. I love that you said, make the church your family Yeah.
Donna Martin:In every aspect. Yeah. I think that's really powerful. And I think if singles are holding themselves back somehow thinking that marriage is the ultimate goal or that's when they're gonna start their ministry, they're just missing out on years that God could be using their life powerfully.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. It makes me sad that only cults emphasize the family of God, you know? And so cults, you know, Jehovah Witnesses, you know, cut off your family.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And what they've done is they've hijacked this beautiful, healthy thing where we bond together, love each other, and care for one another as family.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But we don't cut off our unbelieving Right. You know, neighbors, and, you know, we don't isolate. We don't turn it into a holy huddle, which is, you know you know, that's how you know when you're in a cult, soon as they're trying to push you away from everyone. Where the apostle Paul, you know, when he's talking about disciplining in first Corinthians, he says, surely I'm not talking about the unsaved.
Donna Martin:Mhmm. Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:He's talking about believers within and making sure that we don't let them poison our faith. But so I I just would really encourage you to press into that. I think the most missed doctrine of modern day Christians is the family of God.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That they don't understand what baptism is. You know, baptism is look, I'm a part of this family. It's a ceremony. It doesn't save you, but it immerses you in the culture,
Donna Martin:teachings Yeah, absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And family of Jesus. We've just missed that, and, you know, in so many ways, you know, we've made salvation personal. Yeah. And what we've forgotten is it's it's a family.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, when God calls Abraham, he calls the family. He calls the Jews to bring about Jesus. Jesus dies on the cross to expand the family and to help change, you know, the world into Christ, and that's what makes me so sad. And it's why racism is still so epidemic in our culture, because the church has done such a poor job Mhmm. Of saying, okay, you a black woman, and me a white man, we're family.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We are, you know, Galatians, we are no longer male or We are no longer Jew or Gentile. We are one in the body of Christ, and that oneness is like the oneness that Jesus and the Father have. Mhmm. It's a unity of faith that is profound and powerful. And I think if we understood that, singles would not nearly be as worried about Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, being married or not being married, because it'd be like, look, I got my church, and Right.
Donna Martin:This is my family.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, there's a thousand kids, you know, at church for me to love and care for.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Yeah. So good. I love that. Thank you, Gail.
Donna Martin:Alright. This is Aileen from Riverside, California. It says in episode two twenty five, you talked about channeling your giving through the church. What does that look like? I hear a lot from the Holy Spirit about doing specific things like offering to pay for someone's vacation, events, giving a certain amount for bills, etcetera.
Donna Martin:This is above and beyond my tithes. Should I consider channeling this extra giving through the church too? If so, how do I do that?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. That's a great question. And let me just say thank you. Eileen is how you say
Donna Martin:her name? Eileen.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Thank you for being so generous. I don't think everything has to be done through the church, but, like, for example, you know, Tam all the books that are sold at Sandals Church, the profit from that, Tammy and I are donating kids to go to camp. Mhmm. That's what I mean by I'm not taking that out of my tithe.
Donna Martin:Mhmm. Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Tammy and I already tithe. We already support 11 missionaries in our church. You know, I don't know how many books we sold, but, you know, the profit margin on that is several dollars per book. Mhmm. That's a lot of money being funneled.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But but what I want the kids I don't want the kids to be like, oh, Matt paid for me to go to church camp. What I want is the kids to go, oh, my church. Yeah. Paid for me to go to church camp. My church loves me.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. Because that's what I want them to know is that the church is God's plan a, there is no plan b. And so what I would say is, you know, if it's a substantial gift and you can funnel it through the church, I would do that. But, you know, if I'm gonna like, let's say I, you know, see you and Devon, it's so hard for me to call him that. That's okay.
Donna Martin:It's Steve O'Devon now. Yeah. You
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:know, if I saw you guys out to to dinner and I wanted to pay for your dinner, I wouldn't call the church and say, I wanna donate Right. $85 to pay for like, I would just pay for your dinner. Right. So I would do whatever the Holy Spirit, you know, prompts you to do. Here's my complaint, Eileen, and it's not for you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Most Christians, when it comes to generosity, see the church at the end of the bus, not at the beginning. And and it's just true. I'm gonna give to anything and everything but the church. Mhmm. And we see the church as this big building, you know, Sandals is a megachurch, they must have all this money, and the larger the church, the lower the giving is per person.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It just is. And so that's just not the norm. You are an extraordinary person. You probably, Aileen, have the gift of giving. She does.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so I I I would yeah. So I would press into that and and just say, okay, given it in any way that the Holy Spirit chooses for for for you to give. What I try to do is, like, if I wanna help a family out with a specific need, I'll give it to the church, the church gives it to them so I can do it anonymously. Mhmm. Because I don't want them to know that it was me.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so maybe that's rent, you know, maybe that's a car payment, you name it. I try to give it through the church, and I just say, look, I'm gonna take care of that, because we have and and I'm in a position where I can do that. Yeah. Now, I wasn't always there, you know, but we have a benevolence offering. And and by the way, all of your listeners, anytime you wanna give something over and above, and you wanna help out poor people, single moms, whatever
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:All you do and I think on the app, can they go on the app and you give it to benevolence? Is that a Mhmm. So you just click down to Benevolence. Here's my only caveat. Don't take that away from the general budget.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because, like, we gotta pay our bills. Mhmm. But if you feel like, hey, I just really wanna bless a family this Christmas. Benevolence. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Hey, I just really want give to benevolence. Like, when we sent all that money to feed families in Ukraine that are being blown up and killed, that came out of our benevolence offering, you know? And and we had a couple $100 in there that we were able to just send. And so, you know, and that's why whenever Tammy and I feel prompted to give over and above, we give to the church. You know, if we wanted to help the Joy Company or something else like that, you know, that could come through missions.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so there's multiple ways to give, and you're able to do that, but you it doesn't all have to go to the church.
Donna Martin:Sure.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Any comments?
Donna Martin:I think no. I think she was just one making sure I think I know this person, and she does have the gift of giving Yeah. If I if it's who I think it is, and she is one of the most generous people I've ever met. And so I think I thought when I read this that maybe she was talking about specifically when we did the offering for Ukraine, and then we did the offering for another place that was
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. It was Turkey. Turkey.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Turkey.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Donna Martin:And so for me, I know that it's better for I feel more confident and safer giving those kind of offerings through the church because I know the church is connected with an organization that's gonna be wise with the money and spend it directly. But I love that you said there's a benevolence fund, maybe even connecting with your pastor, your campus pastor to see
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Donna Martin:If there are any needs that he's heard of that then you can give through the church to meet a need in the community.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And and let me tell you why I think it's important to give to the church in this way. And I don't mean this disrespectful in any way to anyone, but everybody has a sob story. Mhmm. Here's what the church might know that you don't know. We've paid their rent for four months in
Donna Martin:a row. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. Like, we don't you know, like, if you have six dogs and are homeless
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The church is not going to pay for the six dogs. And and we hear it all the time, but it's my family. And I say, okay. But I'm not gonna take the tithes of the Lord Right. To pay for your six dogs.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:What we will do is help those dogs get in good homes. But you, as their owner, their master, need to be able to support them. Right. Absolutely. Everybody has a sob story, and sometimes money's not the problem.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Sometimes it's addiction. Mhmm. Sometimes it's they're lazy. Sometimes I mean, there's all kinds of things that you, as a Christian, you might not feel comfortable asking those questions. The benevolence team does.
Donna Martin:Mhmm. They know.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:They they know. And we know how many times we've given. We know how much we've given, and and we know. And so whenever you hear the church won't help me, there is usually They won't help me this time. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:There is usually a reason, and I cannot tell you how many times you know, the Bible says, if you do not work, you do not eat. That's a that's a Bible verse. And I can't tell you how many times we've had people that just refuse to get a job because they're waiting for God to just manifest Mhmm. You know, this managerial position that they're not qualified for
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And will never get. And I just say, look, you know, I remember one time I lost my mind. I was trying to help this family, and they didn't have cars Mhmm. And they got jobs at Disneyland. And I'm like, you live in Riverside.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Like, this is not helpful. Right. And so those are the things where you have to walk alongside people like, what about Albertsons?
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:What about Stater Brothers? What about right down the street? And sometimes, you know, these people, they need help making those very, very basic decisions, and and oftentimes, there's something more at work there than just money. Mhmm. It could be depression, addiction.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:There might need to be counseling. And again, if you truly wanna help somebody, we wanna help the whole person, and so, you know Yeah. That's just me. So I like to give to the church, because I know they're sitting down, they know what's going on in these people's lives, they know what's happening. I don't like to fund addiction.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's just me. And oftentimes, not in every case, but, you know, when you help somebody out at a grocery store or whatever, you may have just funded You don't know. Them getting stoned that day. Yeah. So Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And you don't know. And so what I just do is say, hey, we got a great church, you know, we'd love to help you, you know, you know, I'll buy you some food. And I can't tell you how many times when I offer food, they say no.
Donna Martin:Yeah. That's happening.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I'll say, come on in with me inside Farmer Boys, I'll get you a burger. And they're like, they're not interested in a burger. No. So Or I say, come up here, I'll put gas in your tank, and they don't want gas in their tank. So that's just typically what I do.
Donna Martin:Yeah. That was good. Thank you, Eileen. Keep giving, girl. We love you.
Donna Martin:Alright. So here is Andrew from Colton. And he says, is there a significant, if any, role for godparents in the Christian life? My wife and I debated on the role of a godparent. She thought it might be pagan, like a pagan ritual.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Well, so I'm not Catholic. But as far as I understand, the whole idea of godparent comes from Catholicism. And basically, what this was was somebody who vouched for you in the church Mhmm. That you actually were a Christian. And so, like, even when I grew up Baptist, I don't know if you remember this, but if we joined another Baptist church, we would have to have a letter of recommendation from our previous church.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Or they would call. Yeah. Mhmm. So, like, all of our Christians are like, what? Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because we don't know who you are.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We don't know where you've come from. And, you know, there wasn't social media, and there wasn't all these ways to check up on people, but what it was was a way of vouching for this person to say, no, they're the real deal. I've walked with them. I can vouch for them. You can trust them.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because, you know, unfortunately, there are bad people in the church. Absolutely. And so that's where it comes from. How it became this thing where, hey, we need somebody to be, you know, godparents. I have some Catholic friends, and they have two girls, and I'm the godparent to their to their kids.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I just, like, I was like, you want me to be a godparent? Sure. I mean, I was like, you know, like, you want me to have spiritual influence over your child's life Yeah. For the rest of their life? Was like, I'll sign me up.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. I'll do that. And from time to time, their oldest daughter will text me and just say, you know, hey, Matt, here's what I'm going through, and she has direct access to me for her whole life, because I made that commitment. But also, you know, we have other friends in the church where, you know, Tammy and I will be caretakers for their kids if they die.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And that's because, you know, for Christians, it's again, it goes back to the family piece. It's not just family. You want your kids to be raised knowing and loving the Lord. And for a lot of us, we don't have family members that go to church, love Now, they would say they're Christian
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But they're not Christian in the way that you and I mean Christian. And so what what do I mean? So my friends know that I love Jesus, know that we would make sure that, you know, they are raised to know and love God. And so a big part of becoming a Christian, and this is hard for people, is education. So anytime you see in the Bible this the gift of teacher, do you know what that probably meant in the first century teaching Christians to learn to read?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Because illiteracy was such a huge problem in the early church. And so people and and that's why I just, you know, I I just can't imagine, you know, the whole issue of women teaching. Like, I can't imagine a church has Phoebe in Romans who is educated. No.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:No. No. You can't teach men to read.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Well, it's just ridiculous. And that's part of their see, again, how words change? Right. So preachers and teachers. And so we've kind of, well, this is the person who teaches the Bible.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Well, their primary role was probably teaching you how to read Mhmm. Because illiteracy was such a huge problem in the early church. You gotta remember, probably 50% of the early church were slaves. 50%. Like, we we can't comprehend that, because in American slavery, we separated slaves from you know, they didn't worship together.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:In the first century, you had slaves who'd been conquered by some nation, probably were learning this in a second language Mhmm. And were illiterate in their original I mean, and so teaching was such a huge part of that. And I believe women would have played a huge role in that, especially if they were like Phoebe, if they were like I'm trying to think, what is the other? Juno? Junia?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. That's mentioned in Romans. And so these are highly educated, wealthy women, and and this is one of the things that we don't talk about in our culture. You know, everything is race and gender, we never talk about class. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know? And and the truth is, you know, you have far less in common with Oprah Winfrey Absolutely. Than you because she's a billionaire. Right. Exactly.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You and I are living the same life.
Donna Martin:Right. Exactly.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, so when she's talking about privilege, it's like, wait a minute. Yeah. So, you know, it's like, hold on.
Donna Martin:You know And in San Bernardino, I mean, the white kids are always asking us about their privilege. I know. They're trying to figure out where it is or where it
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:went or so. Because because poverty's gotten lost in this. Everything is raised in America because of our past. And so and we're not helping impoverished people. And the truth is, LeBron James' boys do not need the same help that white Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Kids in San They just don't. So, you know, we've we've we've and and and and that's not to say that there aren't real racial racial discrepancies and issues. I'm just saying class is a huge thing that we don't read into the text. Mhmm. And so and so these women, you know, when Lydia in Acts, the Apostle Paul's not telling her what to do in her house.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:She is running that house. Right. And Paul is not at her level. And that's hard for us to understand. Just in the same way, if I went to Oprah Winfrey's house as a white man who's a pastor and started, you know, like Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I'd I'd be out. Right. Exactly. And so and the same thing is true with Lydia, because there are men in her household who work for her.
Donna Martin:That's right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So now as you go up the uber elites, right, you had to be Italian. Not Italian. You had to be Roman, and not bought Roman citizenship. Remember, Paul's citizenship is purchased, so he well, that means he's real Roman. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So so just put class into that. And so, I don't know, how did I get off on this?
Donna Martin:Well, we were talking about
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Godparents? Godparents, and I And then I hijacked it.
Donna Martin:Yep. I really don't know how we got there. But the question was about, oh, being able to teach your children. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Teachers. There we go.
Donna Martin:Teachers. Because it's really important as your spirit you know, as a godparent or a spiritual
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Donna Martin:Leader that you're able to teach them not just to be in the family, but to teach them the word of God.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. Thank you, Donna, for saving that. You probably just had car crashes on the freeway because I went to
Donna Martin:so No. But that was good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I mean, point of teaching the role
Donna Martin:of teaching children about the things of God Yes. Not just being a random godparent for the sake of being a random godparent.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so our friends, you know, their kids are loved by their family.
Donna Martin:Right. Of course.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Their family is not Christian.
Donna Martin:Not Christian.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. And the most important thing for them is that their kids are taught Yes. There we
Donna Martin:go Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The word of God by Tammy and I, and they asked us, and I said, please don't die. Yeah. But, yes, we will do that. And their kids know.
Donna Martin:And I've had people that have asked us to do the same thing. They have no family at all.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And Yeah.
Donna Martin:If something were to happen to us, would we take your children in? And, of course, you know, please don't die. Same thing. Yeah. And I think there I mean, for some cultures, I know, like Hispanic culture, this is kind of a big deal, you know?
Donna Martin:Yeah. And probably those roots are from Catholicism as well, but they always have some godparents or god you know, because it's just a big part of their culture.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's just what they do. So And things changed. So I think it was rooted in church membership.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But over time, it morphed, and it became somebody that's gonna vouch and say, I'm gonna watch over your kid, so if something happens. But I I'm not Catholic, so if there's a Catholic person who wants to clarify that, that'd be great.
Donna Martin:Yeah. That was awesome. That was great. Great job.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Thank you. Steve, welcome back. Thank you.
Donna Martin:Thank you for having me back. Alright. Well, thanks for checking out this episode. You can always submit your own questions to the podcast anytime by going to move.sc/ask or go to the Sandals Church app, and we'll see you next time. Bye.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Hey, guys. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. My book, Everyday a Miracle, comes out March 5. Please preorder today. It is a book about a journey towards trusting God who heals inside and out.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Thanks for watching the episode.