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Like many teachers, Jessica Pasik came into the profession for deeply personal reasons and to answer a calling. Also like many teachers, her initial training did not prepare her in evidence-aligned practices. Jessica talks about her “aha” moment, how she saw results with her students, and how it changed her practice forever. From her boots-on-the-ground perspective, Jessica addresses common misconceptions around the science of reading, along with the community and culture necessary to nurture and sustain long-term change.
This lively discussion will resonate with any of us who have traveled the journey to the science of reading. Jessica’s commitment and passion will inspire you, as she reinforces that as educators we always strive to learn, grow, and move forward.
“These are OUR kids, we all own them, we are all responsible for instructing them.” –Jessica Pasik
Teaching, Reading & Learning: The Podcast elevates important contributions to the educational community, with the goal of inspiring teachers, informing practice, and celebrating people in the community who have influenced teaching and literacy to the betterment of children. The podcast features guests whose life stories are compelling and rich in ways that are instructive to us all. The podcast focuses on literacy as we know it (reading and writing) but will also connect to other “literacies” that impact children’s learning; for example, emotional, physical, and social literacies as they apply to teachers and children.
[00:00:00.670] - Speaker 1
This episode is being brought to you by Mount St. Joseph University. Mount St. Joseph University offers a number of programs for educators interested in graduate or doctoral work focused on the science of reading. We are accredited by the International Dyslexia Association and offer a fully online reading science certificate, Dyslexia certificate, and Master's degree. The doctoral program is fully online during the school year with an annual on campus summer Institute. To learn more, visit our website. Msj.edu. Readingscience.
[00:00:55.470] - Speaker 2
Hi, I'm Laura Stewart from the Reading League. Welcome to Teaching, Reading and Learning the podcast. The focus of this podcast is to elevate important conversations in the educational community in order to inspire, inform, and celebrate contributions to teaching and learning. Today's guest is Jessica Pask, and Jessica is a former special education teacher and currently a reading specialist. And you'll just hear about her journey, and I believe you'll be inspired by her journey, especially if perhaps if you're a new teacher. Kind of the wisdom she imparts about coming up as a new teacher, I think will really support you in your own journey. So welcome and enjoy. All right. Our guest today is Jessica Pasick. Jessica is a licensed New York State Reading specialist in the Fulton City School District. She received her Masters of Science in Literacy education from SUNY Aftwigo and is currently an adjunct professor of literacy there. She previously received her Bachelor of Science degree in childhood education from SUNY Geneseo. It is certified in elementary and special education grades K through six. She formally taught special education at Kayuga Anandega BOCES in the Fulton City School District. She's also a private tutor and is a passionate advocate for evidence based practices and reading instruction.
[00:02:24.250] - Speaker 2
I have the privilege of knowing Jessica as she is a Reading League board member at large. And I'm excited to talk with you today, Jessica, because it's so important that we hear from educators like you doing the work day in and day out. And also I think it's really important that we elevate young voices in the community and that's you so thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:02:49.100] - Speaker 3
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. It's quite mattered.
[00:02:52.520] - Speaker 2
Oh, great. So I thought we'd start by talking about kind of your origins as a teacher and then just your perspectives on where we are in educational community, especially around the science of reading, and then maybe some ideas about the future. So tell us, what made you decide to go into education? I know it's a personal story for you. So tell us.
[00:03:13.310] - Speaker 3
Sure. I think like most teachers, a lot of us are interested in becoming involved in education because we like kids. Right. And we want to make a difference and we care about these children and their futures. For me, you're right. It was a little bit more specific. My younger brother Andrew has autism, and my parents took a very active role in his education when he was young, so my basement essentially was a classroom, and I was privy to watching dozens of therapists and teachers come in and out of our house. And I was just fascinated by the work that they did and watching my brother learn and grow. And my mother was also a teacher. I have a couple of ants that were also teachers. So it was certainly a big part of my family, my upbringing. And so it was kind of always a natural inclination for me. There was never really a time where I didn't want to be a teacher. It's changed and evolved a little bit over the years. I really was gung Ho about becoming a special education teacher, naturally, because my brother received special education services his whole life.
[00:04:15.510] - Speaker 3
I really wanted to help that population. And so that's why I pursued special education at Genesillo. But it's changed a little bit over the years. So that was kind of the initial spark.
[00:04:27.080] - Speaker 2
Initial you went from special education to really focusing on reading. What caused you to kind of go there?
[00:04:33.950] - Speaker 3
Yeah, it's interesting to look back, and it wasn't ever really one defining moment. Rather, it was several kind of smaller epiphanies I had along the way. Part of that was by chance. I always saw myself in more of a self contained setting again, because that's kind of where my brother was, and I admired his teachers so much. I ended up getting a job in the Fulton City School District as a consultant teacher. So I did co teaching and small group instruction. Got it. That was a bit of a shift from what I had originally thought, but it really allowed me to see a diverse range of students and abilities and become familiar with the core curriculum that New York State uses. And then from there, it was several things. I struggled a lot as new teachers do in the beginning because I had such a range of abilities, and I had a hard time figuring out where to begin, what they needed, how to make them grow just agonizing day in and day out about feeling rather ineffective, I guess, to kind of sum it up, at that same time, I was completing my master's degree in literacy at Sunrise Vigo.
[00:05:48.460] - Speaker 3
And so I had the absolute privilege of having Dr. Maria Murray for two Mexican courses at the end of my program. And that really is where I first learned about the science of reading and evidence based instruction. And then that's really kind of what changed everything. Okay.
[00:06:04.670] - Speaker 2
Got it. A couple of things you touched on. One is that feeling of inadequacy, especially as a beginning teacher, and really what a struggle that is and always trying to kind of find some answers. So how would you characterize your initial teacher preparation program, your undergraduate teacher preparation program, specifically around literacy education or the science of reading? Was it there? Not there.
[00:06:29.410] - Speaker 3
Yeah. At large, I would say no bits and pieces of what make up a larger framework of the science of reading. I had heard of phonics. I had heard of things like phonemes. Right. Very minimally, very surface level understanding. I think like most undergrad programs, you have a few courses about methods for math, for reading, science, and social studies. It's a pretty kind of generic, I guess, first round of instruction, I guess you could say. Again, I was kind of hyper focused on special education. So those were the classes where I really dug in. Right. And I was so excited to have the mock CSE meetings and writing IEPs, and it kind of came to screeching halt when I was in the classroom, because just because you have the ability to write an IEP doesn't mean you're able to deliver those services effectively. There was this big kind of missing piece about what do I actually do with the students in front of me? That struggle. I think that's something when you're young, you kind of just maybe take for granted that you'll figure it out or you're kind of told that, well, you'll learn as you go or you'll learn from your mentor teachers, or you'll learn from the curriculum that you're given.
[00:07:38.650] - Speaker 3
Unfortunately, that tends not to happen. So I was very lucky in my master's program to eventually come across with the science of reading because I know even though that seems late in my teacher preparation program, I know that that is still pretty unique. A lot of people go through several degrees, perhaps even in several years in their career before they come across this knowledge base. So I do consider myself very lucky.
[00:08:04.730] - Speaker 2
Yeah, that's interesting. What you said was just kind of resonated with me. I read somewhere that beginning teachers oftentimes are not prepared well in their teacher preparation program, and so many times they rely on how they were taught as a student.
[00:08:22.570] - Speaker 3
Yes, I absolutely agree. For me, I was lucky in that I didn't really struggle too much with academics, but it always came very easy for me. I guess you could say I would be in that percentage where it probably didn't matter. Whatever type of reading program you did, I would have been okay. However, that's not the case for at least 60% of our students. So for me, I had a hard time even drawing upon that because I didn't necessarily remember the ins and outs. I remembered loving school, I remembered loving my teachers, and that was the initial spark to get an education. But as a new teacher, I was just kind of relying on my colleagues and what the status quo was. But I know that is a big motivator for several new teachers kind of drawing on what they know and even veteran teachers drawing on things being done the way they've always been done. Right. That mantra, that notion of we've always done things this way can be pretty dangerous.
[00:09:23.050] - Speaker 2
Okay, so what was like a big AAA or a big revelation when you started taking classes in your Masters, specifically with Maria.
[00:09:33.430] - Speaker 3
Yeah. I actually can pinpoint this to one moment. I remember it was the first Practicum course, and we were going through the five step lesson plan using an intervention called Rotary reading. And I was interested. I'm like, okay, we're kind of learning here about the ins and outs of how this works. And then she actually went through it with kind of like a simulation, I guess, with the symbols. I believe it's the International Phonetic Alphabet. And so it was to represent kind of for us to realize how difficult it is for young students to connect a symbol with a sound. So she essentially went through what a lesson would look like with a student going from saying sounds in isolation to building words, reading them in isolation, writing them. And that's where I distinctly remember I said, that's so cool. And she looked at me and she was like, yeah, it is. And that was like that moment where I'm like, oh, my God, this is how it's done. I had never seen anything like that. And that was just the tip of the iceberg. So Luckily, I was teaching while I was taking those classes.
[00:10:35.610] - Speaker 3
So I was able to kind of take some students in my small groups and just start dabbling to start trying. And I started seeing results, and I was just hungry for more.
[00:10:45.390] - Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That's taking you through a simulation and having you actually experienced what it's like to learn a code and apply that code. Yes.
[00:10:55.500] - Speaker 3
That's a very powerful something you take for granted because we think that children because they're around letters and they see them all the time, they inherently know they also got a principal, and that's often not the case. So it was a very humbling, very powerful class that I'll never forget.
[00:11:11.730] - Speaker 2
Yes. And what's interesting about that, Jessica, is that was kind of the pervasive belief when I came up as a teacher that we can immerse kids in this and crowd them with print and somehow they kind of Intuit how all this works. And here you are all that many years later coming up as a teacher, that still pervasive belief. Interesting.
[00:11:31.760] - Speaker 3
Yeah. I don't ever remember it being said in those specific words when I was in my undergraduate work, but that was certainly, I think the implication that was certainly the message about surrounding kids with literature quality text. And of course, we want to do that, but that simply isn't sufficient in and of itself, right?
[00:11:50.110] - Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that's the point, right? Yes. We don't want to minimize that. We want to make sure that we're spending time in our teacher preparation program, not just on that, but also developing our understanding of how kids learn to read and how we can instruct them.
[00:12:04.300] - Speaker 3
In that it's essential.
[00:12:07.670] - Speaker 2
What course do you teach?
[00:12:10.130] - Speaker 3
Well, the first course I taught last semester, I was actually able to teach nine, which was the first course I had Marieten. So that was very special for me. Very nice to be able to take what I've learned and create a syllabus and content and then deliver that to graduate students. Obviously, things got a little bit different. We had to adjust with Cobain 19, but we were able to still meet virtually. It was a small group of very wonderful students, and we were able to work with some students virtually. And I think, I hope gained some knowledge about assessment, intervention. And currently I'm teaching lit 314, which is an undergraduate degree, excuse me, an undergraduate course at Astigo, similar to the graduate course. Just a bit of a smaller scale.
[00:13:02.780] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[00:13:04.190] - Speaker 3
A little bit more of a little bit of a preview.
[00:13:07.670] - Speaker 2
That's wonderful. And how nice that you can take what you've learned and continue to pass it, pay it forward, right.
[00:13:14.130] - Speaker 3
Yeah. It's a different type of energy when you're teaching teachers. It's a different skill set, and it's been really rewarding because if I can help them, like I said, I feel lucky that I learned all of this as early on as I did. But if I can give it to preservice teachers when they're just beginning, I mean, that's even better.
[00:13:34.260] - Speaker 2
Yeah. What do you think is the biggest as you work with teachers in service teachers, what do you think are some of the bigger obstacles in taking back what they're learning and applying it to their own practice? What do you think of some of the obstacles?
[00:13:51.840] - Speaker 3
I think it can be a couple of different things. I mean, the overall culture of a building can make a huge difference, and that really a lot of times that comes down to leadership and administration. So if you're lucky enough to have strong leadership, like I am at my school in my district, that's a huge advantage, because then they're more likely to really listen kind of to what their teachers are saying and their concerns are and to be willing to shift and pivot and try different things, being responsive and being realistic to where their students are, but also the trust that comes with a strong school wide culture. Really. Sometimes it can be logistical things, scheduling, staff and resources, time, things like that. Those are all things that certainly don't have to stand in your way. By no means am I saying that, but I think day in and day out when you're in the classroom in front of students all day, it can be very hard to implement these changes if you feel like you have to make these massive shifts.
[00:14:55.010] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[00:14:55.650] - Speaker 3
And sometimes just past experiences, kind of like what you were saying before about perhaps a teacher may be very particular about how they were taught or how they've done things in the past. It can be very scary to change your practice especially if there's that kind of implication that if I have to change and do something to become better, it seems to imply that what I was doing before was wrong. And there was one great webinar, I think Maria was a guest on it a while back, and I don't remember who exactly said it, but there's a great line that's stuck in the US that you don't have to be bad to get better. Right. And that's not a huge model of the reading link is that when you know better, you do better. So I think having that mentality and that understanding is huge. But if it's not there, it could lead to a lot of fear and anxiety.
[00:15:48.260] - Speaker 2
Yes. I go back to one of the things that I read in one of the EdWeek articles, which is there's a no shame zone, there's no blame. We have unfinished work around literacy.
[00:16:03.010] - Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that's huge. And it goes back to culture and this like a collective commitment, the idea that these are our kids and we all own them, we're all responsible for instructing them. Everyone in the school.
[00:16:17.220] - Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. Yes. And you mention something else along those lines about a realistic assessment of where our kids are and having that kind of just moment where we go, Whoa, all of our kids aren't learning to read. I think about Ernesta Ortiz did that webinar for us for the symposium. And one thing he said is they celebrated because from one year to the next, they've made some significant growth. But then he stood back and he said, yeah, we've made growth. But four out of ten of our kids still aren't grade level. And it was like, okay, we have to face this and then think about where they could be and how do we keep moving? How do we keep filling that gap? So is that a culture that you have as a young teacher? You've come into teaching with that, or is it something that you've learned through your own experiences?
[00:17:15.360] - Speaker 3
I think it's work in progress. It's something that I think we aspire to be. I don't know if you're ever really fully there. I think it's always a process of growth. Certainly you want to celebrate your little victories. You know, maybe you only had one out of ten students reading. And so of course, if you get to four, that means you're doing something. You're on the right track. But the idea of kind of always being you're always pushing the limit, trying to get better, and I don't think you're ever done. I love that idea.
[00:17:49.400] - Speaker 2
I love that. Okay, so let's pause here, because I want everybody on the podcast to hear this. We're a work in progress. We're never fully done. We're never fully there, and we just keep moving forward.
[00:18:01.760] - Speaker 3
Yeah, that's great. I think that just captures reality and what we aspire to be, too, because you have to be realistic about where we are.
[00:18:14.210] - Speaker 2
Absolutely. That's why it's so important to hear from you. From you. It's so important. So what do you think teachers and administrators oftentimes might get wrong about the science of reading?
[00:18:28.410] - Speaker 3
I think it depends on where you're coming from. But the phrases kind of that have evolved even over the last few years can be intimidating, and I think it can mean different things to different people. I think misconceptions can be a huge barrier. Oftentimes if you're faced with this idea that you have to make these massive shifts, it's easy to kind of especially as educators, we want to take everything on and full speed ahead, but we have to kind of stop and step back and say, well, what are we already doing that's working. That's working. Well, what are some little tweaks that we can make? What are some minor changes? I think the misconceptions can be a big thing about things like dyslexia or even just some simpler understanding, something like the difference between phonema awareness and Sonics, and then just, I guess, understanding about the quote unquote reading wars, and people think that this is just another pendulum swing. The misconceptions are the biggest area.
[00:19:35.320] - Speaker 2
Yeah. So what are some of those misconceptions that you think have really continued to fuel the fire of the reading wars?
[00:19:42.490] - Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that I've certainly heard teachers say when they're looking at new curriculum that has a strong code emphasis, especially in the early years, that they may be concerned that we're not doing enough with comprehension. This is a pendulum swing to phonics and that the students are just word callers. But then on the same token, if you look at something like the knowledge trend and certain curriculums where they're building content, people might be concerned you might not be doing enough foundational work. And you have to understand it's important to have a deep understanding of all the aspects of evidence based rating because every part plays a role and you can't have a strong curriculum or strong instruction if any piece is missing.
[00:20:26.550] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Do you think you mentioned something interesting? You said just the science of reading can be intimidating. What do you think is intimidating? Is it because we're looking at research and teachers aren't typically brought up in a research kind of environment, or do you think it's the term science of reading that's intimidating?
[00:20:45.550] - Speaker 3
I think it's a little bit of both. I mean, when we think about education, it's not necessarily synonymous with science. Right. We think about all the joy and the passion and the love and the creativity, I guess that we often bring to it that I think we're a little hesitant as a profession to look at it from a clinical lens. And I agree that research isn't something that we're really privy to in our undergraduate and graduate programs. So that can certainly be intimidating. We're not really taught to do maybe a little bit of research here and there in your programs, but you're certainly not familiar with journals and articles and our databases. And even if you have an article in front of you, it can be very long. And the jargon is complex, and it's just not something I think that people are familiar with.
[00:21:44.700] - Speaker 2
Yeah. It's interesting. I was talking to Tim Shanahan about this, and he kind of said the same thing. He said educators aren't brought up typically understanding research. What does evidence really mean and what our methodologies of research? What does effect size mean? Those aren't courses we typically have.
[00:22:04.170] - Speaker 3
Absolutely. Yeah, I agree.
[00:22:07.430] - Speaker 2
Yeah. So what do you think really is going to move the needle as we think about the future? What do you think is going to really continue to move us forward?
[00:22:20.030] - Speaker 3
Well, I think at our core, educators are very social beings, and we kind of thrive through connection and sharing stories and seeing kids grow, seeing results. I think building senses of community between teachers is really how this work is going to be moved forward. It's very hard for a profession such as us to kind of come just from the top and say, you're going to do this without a reason why we are, as much as we may be, not incredibly clinical. We are logical, we are planners. We'd like to know things, why we're doing them right. We want to see results because it is a very complex job. We wear lots of hats, we take on lots of roles. So we want to know that if we're going to change something, invest our time into something new, that it's going to benefit our kids. We want every teacher out there is doing the best that they can with what they have, with the goal of teaching their kids and having their children grow. So seeing stories about how adopting evidence aligned instruction and practices that align with the science of reading, how that's benefiting kids.
[00:23:36.490] - Speaker 3
I think that's really what is going to get teachers to buy in and want to know more. I think it's going to really come from that intrinsic place of seeing results, seeing the power that this type of work has and wanting to know more and wanting to do it, I've seen it a little bit. My own district and county really at large with some of the work that the Reading Leaks been doing through Oakley Therapy initiative.
[00:24:04.070] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Tell our listeners about that, because our listeners know about that project and what that has meant to your county.
[00:24:10.600] - Speaker 3
Absolutely. So it's a really exciting opportunity. I believe we're in the third year of it, I believe, which is incredible to say the schools in a Swagger County came together under the guidance of the Reading League's leadership to really take a look at what we're doing as a county, especially in terms of professional development. They really made a commitment to coming together and embracing the practices of the science of reading through some very specific professional development from the reading leak. So what that looks like in practice thus far, anyway, has been attending superintendent's conferences. We typically have two of those per year. And so as a district, the commitment has been made that all teachers, I believe it's pre K through third currently will attend the same professional development opportunities. So we're all hearing the same messages about the science of reading. And we really started at the beginning with concepts like the simple view of reading, Scarborough, Rope, and really just building a solid level of background knowledge for teachers to draw on. And then from there, it's morphed a bit more. Certain districts have been able to do letters training, the language essentials for teachers of reading and spelling.
[00:25:37.510] - Speaker 3
My district was one of those. So that was a really incredible opportunity for me. Again, I've kind of come across this knowledge through my graduate program and just through my own kind of nerdy interests, reading and whatnot. But that was an absolutely incredible course. So I was very fortunate to be part of that. I know a couple of other districts are starting to invest in sending their teachers as well. And then they've also had coaches at the schools that are participating in this initiative that are trained by, again, Reading League leadership. And that's a really powerful piece because it's one thing to go to a professional development session and be all amp and excited. Right. And then a day goes by, then two days go by, and then the weeks gone by, and it's almost like, wait, what did we talk about there? So this initiative is really different because it's not a one and done it's ongoing on site support. So the coaches have been an incredible instrumental piece for this initiative. It's exciting to see it's still early, but unfortunately it's been a little bit interrupted as it has everything. But we're looking forward to really gearing up this year and what we can, whether it's hybrid remote, we'll still keep at it.
[00:27:02.690] - Speaker 2
That's awesome.
[00:27:03.280] - Speaker 3
That is very powerful.
[00:27:04.580] - Speaker 2
Yeah. That really says a lot about.
[00:27:09.790] - Speaker 3
You.
[00:27:10.240] - Speaker 2
Use the word commitment quite a few times when you were describing this, and it feels to me like that's a theme that you've been bringing up throughout this talk we've had is just that channeling that commitment toward this effort, because as you mentioned, teachers are committed to their children. Teachers are committed to doing right by their students. So how do we channel that commitment in a way that can really be targeted on bringing the evidence to bear in practice?
[00:27:41.130] - Speaker 3
Yeah. And I think it's one thing to it can be even a challenge within a grade level team to adopt this notion of that. These are our kids and we're owning them. But now you're doing it school wide, district wide, county wide. So it's really incredible to see and it's been just a great opportunity for us to connect with other schools and districts and kind of learn together and share what's working. And when we're all kind of on the same page, it's amazing, really what we can do, what we can accomplish. And I've seen firsthand my colleagues really embrace this work coming from multiple philosophies and ideologies. They've really kind of jumped in very bravely. So I just immensely applaud them for this. I'm seeing really big shifts just from within a few years at my school, lots of changes. People are excited again, that intrinsic kind of no one's really telling them to do these things. They're getting excited about what they're learning and that they want to put it in practice. And I think that's what's going to move the needle.
[00:28:50.770] - Speaker 2
So that's very exciting that you've seen, like you said, your colleagues coming from different multiple perspectives, really jumping on board and coming along. What do you think it takes? And you've mentioned a few different ingredients here, but what do you think it takes to really make that leap of faith? Like if initially you're a person who is kind of resistant to this because you're pretty committed to the things that you've done and you've seen success with some of your students, if not most of your students, what do you think it takes to kind of really break through that and say, you know, there's something here I'm going to pursue?
[00:29:30.310] - Speaker 3
Yeah. It's interesting. Again, for me, it was that moment in Maria's classroom where I saw kind of like a light bulb went off, and I saw just a way of thinking in a way of teaching that I hadn't thought about before, but yet that made incredible sense to me. So I don't always think it's this big light bulb moment. It might just be something that sparks your attention and you're curious about learning more. So I think it has to really come from the individual that innate curiosity about, well, what if I just tried this and then from there it's kind of like a snowball effect. And I just think again, going back to the idea of a community, if you're learning with your colleagues and you're all trying something new, the risk seems much less if you're all kind of jumping in together and say, well, you know what, let's try this, guys. Let's see what happens. So I think the relationships between teachers is huge, and that kind of goes back to administration.
[00:30:25.360] - Speaker 2
I think.
[00:30:28.210] - Speaker 3
Having that sense of that it's okay to take risks and try some different things and that we're all kind of learning together.
[00:30:35.970] - Speaker 2
Well, yeah. Like I said before, the culture we get a lot of times carried through the leadership, for sure.
[00:30:41.570] - Speaker 3
Yeah.
[00:30:42.290] - Speaker 2
I love the word that used curiosity. I think that's a wonderful trait in general. It's one of those traits we want our children to have where we want our children to keep. Children are naturally curious. And it seems to me that that's just a wonderful trait to live through life. Right?
[00:31:02.120] - Speaker 3
Yeah. I think as teachers we're always looking for I hate to say this, but we use the phrases like tips and tricks, and that's not what it is. But we're always looking for little ways, I guess, to improve. Right. And maybe you do conceptualize it. Maybe something is as simple as, oh, let me try this. This was a little trick or a little tip that I learned, but.
[00:31:28.930] - Speaker 2
It.
[00:31:29.240] - Speaker 3
Could be a practice that is rooted in the science of reading. Maybe you do phoneic awareness, warm up, and that to you is a little tip that's something that's going to help their students. So I think how you kind of conceptualize it make it a little bit less intimidating. It can just be let's just try this one little activity. Let's try something different here. And that was one of the themes in the first or second year, I think, of the county literacy initiative was the idea of pulling weeds and planting flowers. So what can we maybe take off of our plate, the proverbial weeds that we can pull that we don't need to be doing anymore, because perhaps it really wasn't all that effective to begin with. And now we have a little I shouldn't say all this, but now we have a little bit of extra time.
[00:32:18.890] - Speaker 2
Right.
[00:32:19.040] - Speaker 3
Maybe we can spare five minutes and then what can we plant? What could we sprinkle in that's new that might actually be very effective. That was very wise of really leadership to frame it in that context.
[00:32:35.370] - Speaker 2
I love that metaphor. You can't plant unless you make space.
[00:32:41.490] - Speaker 3
Yeah.
[00:32:42.850] - Speaker 2
And of course, the idea, too, is that there's no teacher out there who isn't filling a day and working as hard as she can.
[00:32:49.830] - Speaker 3
Absolutely.
[00:32:51.370] - Speaker 2
I always say to teachers, hey, how many of you have that pesky hour at the end of the day you just don't know what to do with. I mean, nobody we fill the dates. Right.
[00:32:59.880] - Speaker 3
Right.
[00:33:00.850] - Speaker 2
So how do we make those choices? And I read not too long ago that a teacher makes something like 1200 decisions every day.
[00:33:11.570] - Speaker 3
Is that right?
[00:33:12.550] - Speaker 2
What becomes the guidepost or what becomes that roadmap that can help you weed out what you choose so that you are making room for those flowers. And sometimes the hardest part is pulling some of those weeds.
[00:33:28.570] - Speaker 3
Absolutely. Yeah. We tend to be hoarders as teachers. Right. We don't want to throw out everything because we might eat it one day.
[00:33:37.130] - Speaker 2
But it does take I think like you said, you've used so many great words today. It takes curiosity. I think at one point you said courage or bravery. It takes that. And I think you have this sense of an open heart, an openness to change and openness. The other thing I really like what you said is community, and how do we build a community of support? And of course, you mentioned the reading League in building that community as a young teacher. How important is like your social media? How important is that in building community as an educator?
[00:34:13.250] - Speaker 3
Yeah, it can be incredibly important with anything on the Internet. You certainly have to be a wise consumer. I know my generation in particular, when you're a new teacher and depending on where you are, you might have limited resources or kind of a thin curriculum. And it can be very easy to just go on Google. Right. And search for something or Pinterest or teacher state teachers. We've all been there and been in a pinch. But if you have colleagues and community, whether it's the teacher next door that has been doing this, doing this work alongside with you, but maybe you can bring a little bit more experience to it or your social networks, groups such as the Reading League. We recently created a page for teachers, which I think will be powerful because now we can kind of go to one place and throw up questions and connect with each other in a safe space where we're not feeling judged. That can be very powerful, much more effective than just blindly searching on the Internet and hopes that you can find an activity. Having knowledgeable people in your corner and knowing what to look for, knowing that can be tough.
[00:35:34.440] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, like you said, discerning like, yes, you can get on Google and you can find all sorts of resources, but how do you discern?
[00:35:42.950] - Speaker 3
How do you know that, of course.
[00:35:44.490] - Speaker 2
Comes back to knowing.
[00:35:46.500] - Speaker 3
Exactly.
[00:35:47.360] - Speaker 2
Knowing the research base.
[00:35:48.760] - Speaker 3
And I think that can be applied to even just your intervention programs or your core curriculum. You might not have a ton of choice about what you're giving off the shelf, or you might have lots of options and you might be trying to search for the perfect program. But the reality is that there's no one thing that you can unbox that will work for all students 100% of the time. It really is the teacher having the knowledge to knowing how to use the program that will make all the difference.
[00:36:20.610] - Speaker 2
Knowing how to make those 1500 decisions. Right.
[00:36:23.640] - Speaker 3
Yeah.
[00:36:24.710] - Speaker 2
So what do you think is the greatest gift as a board member of the Reading League, what do you think is the greatest gift that the Reading League can offer to educators?
[00:36:35.090] - Speaker 3
The first word that jumped into my mind was just support. I think different teachers are going to need different things on different days, and we're all coming to this work at different places. I'm hopeful that as more new teachers enter the field, they will be a little bit more prepared. We're starting to see more shifts in teacher prep program, so they might not need this extensive kind of training that we're doing with current teachers. They might already come to it, hopefully one day. Right. With a deeper level of knowledge. But it might just be that community that when you're actually there in the classroom, day in and day out, having a safe space to ask and answer questions, to provide ongoing support for the different challenges you face. I don't think any teacher will ever be prepared to teach every single student every single year. There's always going to be some unique challenges, and that's where we really have to lean in and rely on each other. And then as there are, just as teacher prep and programs are growing and evolving, I'm sure that the fields of research and cognitive neuroscience will be growing, and that's not information that will be readily available to us.
[00:37:56.250] - Speaker 3
So I see the Reading League is this bridge, bringing knowledge into practice, keeping us current, keeping us informed, and just helping us to be the best we can be.
[00:38:10.190] - Speaker 2
That's great. And I do think I mean, you know, this we share that mission, bringing that knowledge to practice. And I like what you said, too, about meeting people where they are. I think that's really important that we as teachers, as educators can be self reflective enough to think about. Okay. Here's where I am now. How do I become curious or how do I nurture my own curiosity to help me move forward from here and evolve? Right. So what are some plans and aspirations you have for yourself and your career as you look towards your future?
[00:38:46.240] - Speaker 3
Yeah. Things seem to be happening kind of within the last year. So just at work speed, it's almost hard to even, especially with the current situation. It's hard to visualize even what tomorrow looks like with everything changing so much. But I'm really enjoying my role right now as a reading specialist. I switched a couple of years ago tracks, and I ended up being able to land in one building, oftentimes with special education. You're kind of going you might be in different buildings or even split, as I was, depending on numbers and caseloads. But this position allowed me a bit more of a permanent home, so to speak. And I think I'd bring up culture and community so much because I really have found that at my school, man, again, in the Bolton City School District. So I'm excited to kind of keep building what we started, especially at the primary level, with reading instruction and kind of start mentoring some younger teachers. I've really enjoyed taking on their role as an adjunct professor. Yeah. That's really helped me grow in different ways and has allowed me to think I'm mentoring some younger teachers. I'm able to become student teacher this year, so that's going to be an exciting new challenge.
[00:40:07.730] - Speaker 3
So, yeah, right now I'm just really looking forward to kind of growing in my role at my school. But you never know. We'll see what the future holds. Yeah.
[00:40:16.000] - Speaker 2
Jessica, I just love your enthusiasm and your spirit and you're.
[00:40:21.130] - Speaker 3
Thank you.
[00:40:21.900] - Speaker 2
You're from the heart.
[00:40:23.340] - Speaker 3
Well, thank you.
[00:40:24.480] - Speaker 2
What advice would you give to a new teacher or a teacher early in her career who wants to take those first steps. She's curious and wants to take a first step. Kind of Where's the place to start?
[00:40:37.090] - Speaker 3
Yeah. It's so many things I know for me, if I could talk to myself when I was starting off, I would just tell myself to give myself some Grace and have patience because I know I was the type of person that you enter a field like special education, you just want to save the world, right. You want to fix everything. You want to teach everybody everything. But it's a very humbling type of job because you learn very quickly that there's a lot you don't know and there's a lot that you still have left to learn from your colleagues, from people that have been there longer than you, but also from your students. I definitely learn more every year. So just being open to the idea that you don't have to have it all together right now, you don't have to know everything, but there is a lot you can do. So just be open to all of the knowledge that you can get. Take advantage of content knowledge and people that have been there longer than you and just be open to all sorts of experiences. Don't be afraid to take risks. Get in there and get your feet wet.
[00:41:49.080] - Speaker 3
Substitute when you kind of observe. If you're like student teaching or you're in a position where you're observing, just volunteer. Get in front of kids and just start because you can read all the articles in the world and it's important to have the knowledge. But until you're actually doing it, that's where you really start to make the magic happen. You start putting the two together. It'll be messy at first. It won't be pretty. You'll make mistakes, you'll teach the wrong lesson. You'll slip and fall in front of kids. You'll do something goofy, but it's all part of the process.
[00:42:26.670] - Speaker 2
That's like anything in life, right?
[00:42:28.620] - Speaker 3
Yeah.
[00:42:29.170] - Speaker 2
Be creative. Be creative. Be curious.
[00:42:33.580] - Speaker 3
Yeah.
[00:42:35.070] - Speaker 2
Well, thank you. This has just been lovely to speak with you, and you're very inspiring. And like I said, your energy is so wonderful, and I just really appreciate that.
[00:42:45.830] - Speaker 3
I do I have great mental health and teachers.
[00:42:48.490] - Speaker 2
That's great. I do want to close with some kind of rapid fire questions here. So what was your favorite teacher growing.
[00:42:57.030] - Speaker 3
Up and why so many? That is difficult to pinpoint. Was that just one?
[00:43:06.200] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[00:43:08.310] - Speaker 3
I had an English teacher named Mrs. Webber in 11th grade, and I really fell in love with books and reading and literature and writing and the whole process. Her class has always stayed with name.
[00:43:23.480] - Speaker 2
Isn't that amazing? I think if you ask anyone, they can always name a teacher who made a difference in their lives.
[00:43:28.880] - Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. It's hard to pick this one.
[00:43:30.730] - Speaker 2
Yeah, that's true. What is your favorite book, either as a child or as an adult, that.
[00:43:36.320] - Speaker 3
Has to be Harry Potter. Definitely a Potter head. I could read them over and over and over again.
[00:43:43.250] - Speaker 2
That's awesome. Okay, what are you reading right now?
[00:43:47.070] - Speaker 3
So right now I'm reading a book called Love Teach. And if I couldn't get enough of teaching during the day. Right. But it's actually pretty near and dear to my heart. She was a blogger that I followed right when I started teaching. She wrote Anonymously, and it was just a very raw and real look about what it's like to be a new teacher. It's not necessarily something that would be found on a Science of Reading database, but it talks a lot about building relationships with kids and all the things you do when you're young and new, starting off so very relatable stories, I guess from the beginning.
[00:44:30.040] - Speaker 2
That sounds like a good recommendation.
[00:44:31.540] - Speaker 3
Love Teach, love Teach.
[00:44:33.190] - Speaker 2
Okay. What do you have on your desk that symbolizes you or is dear to you?
[00:44:43.570] - Speaker 3
It's something so simple, but it's just this vase of, like, fake flowers with these little pebbles in it, and I don't know what it is about it. I think that when I first started off, like I mentioned, I was a special education teacher, and I bounced from room to room a lot, and I never really had, like, a home base. I was always at this school for half a day, then this school for the other half a day, and I always just envisioned, like, when I'm finally kind of, like, settled and my roots are there. But that one little decorative piece kind of came with me from room to room.
[00:45:13.410] - Speaker 2
I love it.
[00:45:14.020] - Speaker 3
So it's just kind of a reminder of all the places I've been.
[00:45:18.070] - Speaker 2
Cool. But it's probably going to be with you your whole career. Right. And last question, what are your greatest hopes for today's children?
[00:45:29.630] - Speaker 3
I think right now, more than anything, there's obviously so much that needs to be done with reading, with the science of reading. But ultimately, I want kids to be kind and compassionate and empathetic to each other and to themselves. Mary Ann Wolfe's work really touched me when I read her pieces because she connects the hard neuroscience of reading to the ultimate goal of reading for enjoyment and pleasure and finding yourself and characters and books and relating on this deeper level you're hard pressed to find through film and TV. There's a place for all of those wonderful things as well, but there's just something quite magical about going deep in a book with a character and relating on that level. And I think that that's something that really, as Dr. Wolfe has alluded to, that really fosters empathy and compassion. And I think that's something our world really needs right now.
[00:46:38.570] - Speaker 2
Well, lovely. Well said. Well said. It's the gift of leading a literate life.
[00:46:44.100] - Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely.
[00:46:45.680] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, thank you, Jessica. This has been lovely. It's just so wonderful to hear from you and I thank you for the work that you're doing and I know that everyone tuning in to this will really appreciate your perspective and your enthusiasm and your joy for teaching. So thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:47:05.370] - Speaker 3
Thank you, Jessica, you're so welcome. Thank you for the opportunity. All right.
[00:47:08.770] - Speaker 2
Wonderful. Thank you for listening today. I could just chat with Jessica all day. Her energy and her excitement are just so contagious. So the reading League is committed to bringing you conversations like this and offering your resources to support you in your journey. If you haven't yet checked us out, please check us out at www. Dot the readinglike.org you're going to see. We have a fabulous knowledge page which will lead you to lots of great resources to build your own knowledge base. We offer conference, live stream events, professional development. We have a tremendous YouTube channel with very accessible videos and we want you to join us as a member and with that paid membership you get a subscription to our Journal which, as Jessica mentioned, really bridges that research to practice, which is really what we're all about. So feel free to join us. Check us out it's and thank you for listening. Hope to see you again soon.