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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Poobah, Senator, Pagoda, and Bam Bam, and our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some bourbon, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs.
So take this as your 133rd official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. And to meet us here once a week, we're going to smoke a Cupid cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it and give you our formal lizard rating. We discuss Habanos SA's controversial plan to increase their global distribution control and to reduce supply in some markets.
The guys bring in a special spirit for a tribute. And we answer our latest listener emails with some frequently asked questions, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and enjoy as we pair 12 year age Weller Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey with the Partagas Aliados.
A double banded Partagas tonight from [00:01:00] Cuba on the pod. It's called the Aliados. And it's a 45 ring gauge cigar by six and five eighths inches long. And boys, I don't think I've ever seen a Cuban cigar presented quite like this one. It's
**Bam Bam:** incredible.
**Gizmo:** It is unbelievable. Presentations
**Bam Bam:** just off the charts.
**Gizmo:** When we, when I got this in for the podcast, this is about a year ago now, had them quite some time. I couldn't believe it comes in an outer cardboard box. It has a silk kind of,
**Bam Bam:** it's like a black velvet, black velvet encasing.
**Gizmo:** Exactly. See, this is why we keep you here. All right. Then, Inside the box. It's this beautiful presentation.
How would you describe this Jen? Seriously?
**Bam Bam:** It's a lacquered box, but it's got, um, a different type of a wood on top. It's stained in a lighter color. The rest of it's cherry. Beautiful. It's reminiscent of a Sir Whiston, but this is a. A step or two above the Sir Winston box. Yeah, it's another level. There's velvet on the bottom too.
**Gizmo:** And then it has a push button [00:02:00] clasp mechanism to open the box. Right. Like a Sir Winston box. Like Sir Winston, and then inside sits two levels of Tensugoshi. Yeah, and it's hinged. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** When I open that Sir Winston box, it feels like a special occasion, like a special event. This takes it up several notches.
It
**Poobah:** does. There's an inlay. If you turn the box around, Giz. They're, um, so, so on the outer part, there's actually a figured, I don't know what type of wood that is, but it's a figured, it's not walnut, but it's a figured stained. But that's cedar inside for sure. Cedar here. Yeah. Yeah. It's highly, that may be highly figured cedar that's stained.
On the perimeter. Yeah. On the outside. Mm-Hmm. And then, and then on the insert, there's the typical kind of cedar that you'd see with the, with the, with the burnt in, um, Parus logo. Yeah. The branding that, the branding that you, that, that you're used to seeing. Um, talk
**Gizmo:** about, talk about seeing this in a shop.
Incredible. Oh, the box is, is very, very unique. [00:03:00] It's stunning. Even the
**Rooster:** sides are curved. Yeah. The two,
**Bam Bam:** the left and the right sides are curved. The front and back are straight. Every detail,
**Senator:** even the bottom of the thing is not flat. If you actually feel it, it, it, it's, it's goes, it's like two feet on it. Yeah.
It's got rails on both ends. Yeah. It's easily the nicest cigar box I've ever seen. And the other thing I love too, on
**Gizmo:** the outer rim of the, the lid is like the part, I guess, kind of traditional, traditional branding that you see on a dress box and a dress box. It's really,
**Poobah:** it's really well thought out and beautiful.
Whoever did it. Um, Thought they thought you're hired. Poobah has a job for you. Uh, yes. Uh, just, uh, go to my, um, go to my website, www. opportunity. com. All right, boys, let's cut this
**Gizmo:** thing. See, we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper. So I've held onto these for quite some time now. These are a newer release.
So for the price point, and we'll get into that in a little bit, I wanted to save them just a bit.
**Bam Bam:** The draw is very nice. Just
**Gizmo:** a little snug, perfect amount of [00:04:00] resistance for me here. Yeah.
I'm getting a lot of cedar, which, you know, when you open the box, it smells incredible too. So the wrapper,
**Bam Bam:** I get like a biscuit type thing happening on the wrapper and at the foot. But the draw is pretty, it's a simple draw and I do get a little bit of cedar. Got a baby dimple. Yeah, me too. I was just gonna say that.
Yeah. Oh
**Gizmo:** yeah, I have a little one. Yeah, I had to spit it out. Just, just chew it. It's good for you. Yeah, this is um, I'm very excited about this. What else are you getting on a cold draw? Um, I'm getting fig, I'm getting the cedar thing like I said. What does fig taste like? Dried fruit, of course. You read a book lately?
I have. Ha ha ha
**Poobah:** ha!
**Gizmo:** It's very fig newton y. Let's do it. Let's light this thing, boys. Depart the gas, aliados. The Casa del Habano and [00:05:00] Habano's specialist release. Someone's welding steel
**Bam Bam:** in the
**Gizmo:** room.
**Bam Bam:** Holy smokes.
**Gizmo:** That's El Senador. Again, it's a 45 ring gauge cigar by six and five eighths inches long. A new release size for Cuba.
First time this size has ever been used and the factory name is a Delirios.
**Bam Bam:** So I read an article in Europe, these were going for between 53 and 55 bucks a stick. Like 45 in Germany.
**Gizmo:** What did you pay for these? I think that's a little low, but I paid 60. That's what I read. I paid 60. 60 dollars for this?
Yeah, 60 each.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, but like 45 euros.
**Gizmo:** Magnificent on the light boys. Wow. Smooth and creamy. Great smoke output. Oh
**Poobah:** yeah. Well the combustion, the combustion's terrific.
**Gizmo:** The smoke is velvety on the light. It is. It's creamy.
**Bam Bam:** I'm not getting [00:06:00] a lot yet. It's, it's nice. The experience is nice. Yeah. I'm in the same camp. I think this is going to take a few minutes to settle in and then I'll know what I'm really getting. Yeah. But the performance right now is fantastic. Rooms already full of smoke.
**Gizmo:** I have high hopes for the cigar.
We do. I do. You know, we, this is the, this will be the 10th. This is the 10th Partagas we've done on the podcast tonight. We've done nine others. So as far as a cigar in this group goes, every time we pull out a Partagas, especially a new release, we have very high hopes for it. It's exciting. You know, and we, you know, this is exciting.
Cigar.
**Rooster:** Do you know anything about the, the second band, the LCD band? Like it's got two
**Gizmo:** leaves on it. That's just the marking. I think that has been used, you know, to designate. Does every
**Rooster:** LCD band has seen that before? No, no, I know, but not the double leaf. I think isn't one like called like the specialist.
There's a Habano
**Gizmo:** specialist and then there's, you know, the La Casa [00:07:00] Del Habano is right. Yeah. Yeah.
**Poobah:** And then there's some La Casa Del Habano releases that don't have the second band on it. The
**Gizmo:** Calabria, for
**Poobah:** example, from part of the
**Gizmo:** Calabria or
**Poobah:** the, uh, or the Kanye. That's right.
**Gizmo:** So this cigar was announced in 2021.
It was released in early 2023 and I brought. The entire presentation tonight to show you boys that I couldn't tell you actually what the box code of this cigar is because the outer cardboard box where they stamped them, they put a sticker on these high end presentation boxes, it was covered the entire back of the box was covered by a Mexican health warning sticker.
Wrapped all the way around to the front and the only way I can tell You know kind of the range it was in was when the distributor released, you know received it in January 23 So what I'm understanding these cigars started being rolled in November 22 at either, uh, one of the provincial [00:08:00] factories, either OBS or RBS.
And I would think that November 22 makes a lot of sense if the distributor got it in January 23, so.
**Senator:** Well, Giz, there was a very important warning on that box I saw when you pulled it out. I mean, it had a breast that was removed. Yes, it was a I mean, breast cancer is always my first worry when I light up a cigar.
Correct. Same here. You just retrohale and it goes straight to your breast. You need to take
**Bam Bam:** care of your bosom, Senator.
**Senator:** Ha ha ha!
**Poobah:** Well, there's so many peer reviewed publications in medical journals that associate cigar smoking with breast cancer. That's true. So many.
**Gizmo:** As we've talked about before, the Mexican government has their priorities and, uh, the outer box of this. Fentanyl. Beautiful cigar. Is, what did you say? Fentanyl.
**Rooster:** Fentanyl. That's a big priority. They've got that under control. They're fighting
**Senator:** breast cancer and cigar smoke that's causing it. That's right.
**Rooster:** I got a little coffee on this.
Coffee with a little spice, a little sweet coffee.[00:09:00]
**Senator:** I could see maybe a little coffee. It's like faint in the background and there's like a, almost like a nutmeg kind of flavor.
**Rooster:** I get like a, it's like a sweet and a little bit of spice and salt, like kind of mixed together. It's kind of similar to nutmeg. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Could be cinnamon too. I'm trying to, I think it's definitely something here.
To me, it's definitely in the baking spice type of range or baking flavors. It's very mild though. But it's very mild right now. Yeah. Very timid. What's interesting this size too, You know, it's, it's listed on Cuban cigar website as a double Corona. And when you compare this in the hands to a Lusitania, a, you know, Ramon Aionis, uh, he got this, it seems
**Bam Bam:** smaller.
**Gizmo:** The Hoya we did recently. Yeah, it's, it's, this seems closer to me to a Lonsdale than it does to a. Double Corona.
**Senator:** Yeah much closer. I honestly to me. It's [00:10:00] ridiculous to call this a double Corona This is like half the size of a double Corona.
**Bam Bam:** A
**Pagoda:** double
**Bam Bam:** Toro maybe That's a Bam Bam special.
**Poobah:** Yeah, it feels like a Corona just longer
**Gizmo:** Yeah, just feels like a bigger like a bigger Particus 898 or a bigger Cohiba Sigwald 5, you know in the hand But it feels really good in the hand.
It
**Bam Bam:** does.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Rapper is a bit toothy There's a little bit of a glistening to it, which is nice and it's got that nice kind of Kind of creamy brown color.
**Poobah:** Well, the construction, the seams are invisible. The construction's quite nice.
**Bam Bam:** It looks like it's got a lot of age on it. It looks it.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And these are only a little over a year, year and a half old.
**Rooster:** Yep.
**Gizmo:** It's delicious.
**Rooster:** The retro
**Bam Bam:** is well, it's, it is just can't pinpoint. Where it is right now, I
**Rooster:** mean the notes. Yeah. Yeah,
**Pagoda:** but I kind of agree with you I get a bit of the sweetness with like some kind of The dried fruit [00:11:00] sweetness, you know, maybe akin to like baking spices I can't figure it out, but it's very pleasant but the other thing I'm realizing it's all in the front like it's really good in the lips and right and the front of the Mouth as opposed to yeah,
**Rooster:** would you say it's a bit earthy?
**Pagoda:** I didn't get any So no
**Rooster:** Unlike an upman though, it's not, it doesn't have like the upman baking spice DNA. It's different. Yeah. Yeah. It's got a, it's got a certain spice.
**Bam Bam:** Who said nutmeg? Because it's probably the closest thing that, yeah, that's probably the closest thing that you're getting here. I think.
And I get it kind of in the middle. Right. As the smoke curls in my mouth.
**Gizmo:** Here's a good question I have for you guys. We're obviously, you know, the listener is hearing us experience a lack of definitive, you know, sometimes we smoke a cigar and we call out 30 different things or five different things.
We're, we're having difficulty. Now, my question for you guys, and I think I have an opinion on this. [00:12:00] Do you guys think that's a product of blend or do you think it's a product of age? Or a little bit of both. My gut says this is a product of blend at this point.
**Bam Bam:** I think it always is a product of blend other than if you get a heavily aged cigar, you know, then you get a different experience.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I'm just, you know, is youth contributing to it? The water's being a little murky.
**Bam Bam:** No, because in my opinion, this is smoking really beautifully. There's no sharp edges, no ammonia. So I don't think youth plays into this. As much as it is the blend, probably. Yeah,
**Senator:** I don't think youth either because for me, it's, it's actually heavy age that I feel like can take away the intensity of flavor.
And I'm talking very heavy age, like you had gotten some crazy age Lucy's once and we lit them up and they were basically flavorless. I mean, we couldn't get any flavor out of that cigar. So it's like sometimes heavy agent, like mutes the flavors so much that you really, you don't taste anything or you don't know what you're [00:13:00] getting.
I feel like when it's young, sometimes it's like too aggressive or too pronounced, but you definitely can taste that it's there. I definitely think it's the blend. And I think. It's because this is clearly one of the milder Partagas cigars that they probably make period. Because we don't associate Partagas with mild by any stretch.
Definitely not. And so I think with any milder cigar, because the flavor is so subtle, it's just a lot harder to pick out those defined notes, and it just takes more time for that to develop.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah,
**Senator:** but it doesn't make it a
**Bam Bam:** bad
**Senator:** cigar.
**Gizmo:** I was just going to say that it's like for all of that. The
**Bam Bam:** experience is so luxurious and elegant and creamy and smooth.
It's an enjoyable cigar, very, very easy to smoke. You can literally retrohale this on every single draw. It's that smooth.
**Gizmo:** And I wonder, you know, you look at the presentation of this box, right? This is clearly a box that, that Habanos has determined they want, you know, Displayed at La Casa Del Habano stores, right?
They want this to be a focal eye candy piece for the [00:14:00] part of his brand. Uh, I would think alongside the new linear maestro, the linear maestro boxes, which are, you know, very ornate blue, bright blue boxes. I wonder though. If from a blending perspective, if they try, if they're trying to make this cigar a little bit more accessible to a smoker, who's walking into an LCDH to pick up a cigar for 60 bucks for 60 bucks out of this box, that's not going to have a lot of oomph to it.
Yeah, maybe. So
**Poobah:** here, yeah, I'm, I'm building on that as I'm
**Bam Bam:** poop. His gears are turning over there. Yeah.
**Poobah:** So building on that, it's the blend is not. A Lehero weighted blend, like maybe you'd get with a young, a younger, um, eight, nine, eight, perhaps, which could, you could probably compare it to because if you smoke that cigar too young, it can really, it can bite you.
It can. Yeah. It can really bite you. So I think given its age, it's very [00:15:00] approachable and smokable. Some of the flavor notes to, to just echo everyone else's points is that they're just a little bit muddled, but it's getting better as it heats up here. Now I'm starting to pick out like a little bit of vanilla, a little bit more sweetness is starting to come out the oils and the wrapper starting to develop.
And as you read, you know, it's, there's definitely cedar there. I think you may
**Bam Bam:** need time to just get settled here, right?
**Poobah:** You know, um, there's definitely, it's a, it's, it is cedar forward. Definitely. I
**Gizmo:** like the vanilla too. I think vanilla was a note we didn't call. I think that's a really, I think that's a really nice way to, it's emerging like vanilla cream is the way I would describe like the velvety smoothness of the cigar in the mouth.
And I think through the retrohale, there's very little spice there for me. It's very smooth and creamy.
**Bam Bam:** Like I said, you can retro every draw. Yeah.
**Poobah:** Yeah. It's once it started to settle in for me and I think also a merit too is, I mean, look at this, the [00:16:00] burn, look at the burn line. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Every cigar in the room is perfect. You know, we're stacking dimes here. Like it's, it's, it's beautiful. I mean, I don't see this, the construction is just exemplary. Yeah. That, that, that's a wonderful thing to have in a Cuban cigar. I smoking like a Davidoff quality cigar. It is, you know, in terms of construction
**Gizmo:** and build.
And I think, I think, you know, tying all this together. You know, the, the, the blend questions that we have about the cigar, the presentation questions we have about the cigar, the name of the cigar is Aliados, which stands for partners in Spanish. This is obviously made for the LCD age partners, you know, by Habano's Alliance.
So it's, I do wonder all of that time together, if this is a, you know, purposely a little bit. A bit of a departure from a traditional Partagas classic line. Yeah.
**Poobah:** Yes, [00:17:00] exactly. If this was blind, if we had no wrapper on it, I, I may say, is this a QD? Yeah. This could be a Cydor. You know, this early in stage of the cigar, I would maybe guess that,
**Senator:** you know, to your point, I, there is no universe in which I would ever guess is a Partagas cigar.
You'd give me 10 guesses. I would name every Cuban brand before I would say this. I would
**Poobah:** probably say this is like, it's some sort of, is this a, is this a QD? I would even, I would say a Zeno.
**Gizmo:** I would even say, let's not, let's not, let's not
**Poobah:** digress.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, this is, this might be better. One of the better Hoyos we've had
**Poobah:** by the construction and build alone.
There, there, that would be ruled out immediately.
**Senator:** Correct. Just, I don't know if a part of this, this mild, it's crazy. Even like they're. Like smaller format, kind of budget cigars, like the Super Partigas and all those, those have more flavor than this does. It's just surprising.
**Gizmo:** Even a Lusitania, which I think when a Lucy you light, it is kind of in the mild to right at touching [00:18:00] medium.
It obviously builds into in the beginning. I would even say this is. More mild than that. I
**Senator:** completely
**Gizmo:** agree. You know, and we're what, almost an inch in now, three quarters of an inch in. It's, it's very, uh, this is definitely a departure for Partagus. Yeah.
**Poobah:** And I, and I, I do, I, I'll divert a little bit from the group in that I do taste a little bit of youth.
I don't, it's that kind of, I don't know how to explain it. It's not ammonia, but it just doesn't, it doesn't taste, you know, A fresh tobacco. It tastes a little bit more freshy, um, than I'm picking up, which is, you know, expected and I would have called that out blind. Um, but it's, you know, it's good. I think that it's very approachable and it's very smokable.
**Rooster:** I think it would age well, because it's a milder smoke,
**Gizmo:** so I
**Rooster:** think it would have more [00:19:00] aging potential. Well,
**Gizmo:** remember what, remember what Danilo said, cigars, cigars, heavy and Ligero.
**Bam Bam:** I kind of disagree too. I mean, it's already starting out very mild and what would it be like in three years?
**Senator:** I don't know of any cigar this mild that ages all that well.
**Rooster:** I'm going back to like what exactly you were talking about, like Danilo's words, a milder cigar will have more aging potential. Oh yeah. Like the Hoyos. Yeah. Yeah. They develop. They age, you know, they age well. Could be. Like E2s require some age. You know, and honestly, the price point of this cigar,
**Bam Bam:** it's worth putting it away for a while.
Sure. You know.
**Senator:** Yeah, it's 60 bucks. Yeah. I guess it's just hard to imagine because I feel like all those cigars start more flavorful than this. So it's like you can see there's like a place to go. I'm just so confused where this goes with age. And I'll also be honest, and I'm happy to depart from the group as much as I like Partagas, there's not enough flavor in this so far for me.
I
**Gizmo:** agree with you on that.
**Senator:** Yeah, yeah.
**Gizmo:** This is definitely I think we're all there. And I'm sipping seltzer with [00:20:00] lemon. I haven't touched the pairing. We'll get to it in a little bit. But, you know, just even with seltzer, it's still kind of on the weaker end, but on the
**Poobah:** palate. Well, it's a little bit, it's a little bit, Muddled and the finish is a little bit short and confusing for me.
Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, I totally agree with that. Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** because you and I, we, we're far at the foot of the cigar at every sitting. What are you getting? Anything here?
**Gizmo:** I'm not getting anything to, to really even remotely write home about. I mean, it, it smells like, you know, good tobacco burning at the foot.
It sounds,
**Bam Bam:** yeah, it smells like great tobacco.
**Gizmo:** But it's, it's nothing that, To me is enhancing what I would get on the draw. Mm-Hmm. or what's happening on the retro hale? Mm-Hmm. It's not, it's just there for me, you know, which is honestly 20 minutes in why I haven't mentioned it yet. You know? Right. You,
**Poobah:** if we're talking about more mild flavored cigars, like a Corona's claros at this point with a couple years of, with a couple years on it, even that, that's.
That's not a flavorful cigar. This is where I'm going though. This is what I'm, this is the point I'm [00:21:00] trying to make is that, that at that point, at this point in the cigar, which is kind of a similar size, it is, you're going, this is super like, like you're really getting a lot. Uh, there's a long finish, you know, the flavors are complex and distinct and it's a little muddled for me, but maybe it'll change.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, I'm, I'm hoping that in the second third, I'm hoping it takes us on a journey. You know, we've been patient. We'll call this a double Corona. That's how they list it. We'll be patient as we were with the Hoyo de Monterey double Corona, where we were saying, you know, in the first third, let's see how it goes getting in the second third, hoping a little bit.
I remain hopeful.
**Poobah:** It's smooth as hell.
**Bam Bam:** It's,
**Poobah:** it's
**Bam Bam:** creamy as hell. Yeah.
**Poobah:** Yeah. It's definitely creamy. So there was like a little bit of pepper, like maybe it's white pepper in the background. I wish
**Bam Bam:** I was getting pepper. I'm not getting that at all. No,
**Rooster:** but that's the, that's the spice that I was getting. I think there is a little like a hint of spice that.
If you
**Poobah:** retrohale it, I feel like you can, you get a little more, but
**Bam Bam:** I've been retro in [00:22:00] the whole night. I'm
**Poobah:** trying to pull things out here that are constructive. I'm so, you
**Bam Bam:** know, there's another cigar that we smoked. It was also very mild, a good quality cigar. Um, I think we felt the same way about that as we do this.
It was less expensive than mag 50.
**Gizmo:** No, yeah. H up in Magnum 50
**Bam Bam:** larger format. Mag 50 was also very, very mild, but it performed well. It was smooth, creamy, enjoyable for the right guy or girl. That's what this is coming through as.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Do you, do you know why I remember the mag 50?
**Bam Bam:** Um,
**Gizmo:** I don't want to talk about it.
That was the Bam Bam accountability episode. I don't
**Bam Bam:** want to talk about it. I don't remember that episode.
**Gizmo:** Let's play it back. Let's just play
**Poobah:** the whole episode now while this flavor develops. Well, there's been a lot of accountability for Bam this
**Gizmo:** week. So boys, let's let the cigars settle in a little bit.
We'll talk about Partagas. So we've done nine other cigars. so much. From Partagus. So we've done the history ad nauseum. We've hit it a thousand times I was very fortunate [00:23:00] to pick up a copy of a book that's been out of print for over 12 years now Look at that, which is called Partagus El Libro, Partagus the book, which is a full couple hundred page very large hardbound book Do you sleep with that?
I do not. Does it come with cigars? It does not. Did you get it at Barnes and Noble? No, I got this on eBay. This book is harder to find than Min Rodney's uh, Encyclopedia of Post Revolution Havana Cigars. It looks cool. I've only seen one come up. I was lucky enough to get it on eBay. It's a very, very detailed history of all 170 some odd years of Partagas.
And it's awesome. Wow. On each page on the left side is in English and on the right side is in Spanish.
**Bam Bam:** So
**Gizmo:** it's really high, you know, high quality images. So you finance it at 7 percent high quality images going back into the 1800s, mid 1800s, early 1800s, all the way up until 2012 when [00:24:00] it was published.
And there were some things in here that I didn't know about Partagas and its history that I thought would be an interesting thing to share tonight as well. The 10th cigar we've done from the brand, we've hit everything else, right? So anybody who's looking for Partagas history, you can go to one of the other nine episodes we've done on Partagas cigars going all the way back to episode one.
If you remember the first episode of the podcast was The Partagas Maduro one, the one that's by the way, we have the Partagas Maduro three coming up soon. That'll be the next part of this. We do. Cool. Probably around episode 150. So we'll need to watch tennis
**Senator:** when
**Gizmo:** we do it. That's right. The microfiche.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. Did you read it in Spanish or in English? I feel
**Poobah:** like that was a legendary, uh, garage episode. Yeah. That was
**Gizmo:** the first one. I was. That was the
**Poobah:** first one.
**Gizmo:** First episode. Yeah, man. First episode. Medvedev.
**Poobah:** Medvedev. Yeah. That's right. Loading up a USB drive in the embassy.
**Gizmo:** So to answer your question, Pagoda, I did a little bit of both, trying to, trying to go back and forth.
I did [00:25:00] my best. All right, so read us some excerpts from the list in Spanish, please. What I am going to do is share Five cool things. I'm going to ignore them now, Bam. I'm going to turn their mics off. Correct. I'm going to talk about five cool things that I didn't know about Partagas. How many Partagas cigars we've smoked.
How much time we've spent in Cuba at the Partagas shop. How much we love the brand. And certainly how many cigars we've smoked on this pod. I learned a couple things that I want to share with you guys. Why don't you quiz us? So part of this was also used as a diplomatic gift by Cuba. In addition, of course, to Cohiba, which was 20 years, 20, 29 years, almost of a, uh, only as a diplomatic gift used by Fidel and his people, uh, and also Trinidad, of course, president Dwight D Eisenhower received a presidential humidor from Cuban captain Omar Fernandez in 1960, just months before the first export embargo, which he.
Obviously instituted an export embargo in late 1960. Kennedy built on that with the [00:26:00] import embargo in 1962. And of course that was right before the Bay of Pigs incident and the Cuban Missile Crisis. So there's a picture in this book of Dwight Eisenhower as president receiving a Partagas humidor as a diplomatic gift.
Particus controlled nearly 40 brands under its manufacturing heyday and distributed them in the 1940s and 1950s, of course, including Bolivar, Ramon Iones, and LaGloria Cubana. But you would not believe this list of 40 brands that I've never heard of.
**Bam Bam:** Under their control.
**Gizmo:** They were running, manufacturing, and distributing out of the factory, the Particus factory, in the 1940s and 1950s.
Wow. 40 brands. Wow. And also, you know, just like Upman, you know, the, the founder of Upman started boxing and banding cigars, you know, certainly prior to him, they weren't boxed or banded, but they would, you know, companies would come in and order cigars to have their own branding put on and Partagus was doing that as well.
The old part of his factory, which we saw in Cuba,
**Poobah:** right? It was in a
**Gizmo:** [00:27:00] single location for over 165 years, right near the Capitol building, of course, in Havana. It closed at the end of 2011 for what was supposed to be a planned three year renovation. Unfortunately, I never reopened. As we know, it's facade is now celebrated as an artifact of the history.
Of tobacco production in Havana. So of course we went over there and took some photos, ma'am. Uh, and that's all it is now. The Partagas shop there, the old Partagas shop at the now closed Partagas factory we just talked about, originally opened in 1932. And a lounge was added in 1993. This is crazy. In 1999, the Partagas factory store registered sales of around 4 million US.
In one calendar
**Bam Bam:** year. I would love to have had a cigar there.
**Gizmo:** It moved to its new location near the Floridita during COVID, which is where we've gone many, many times while we're in Havana. This is my favorite one because I'm just a huge Jack Nicholson fan. Jack Nicholson, a man who's done a decent job keeping his private life private, spent [00:28:00] four days in Havana in 1998 staying at the Hotel Santa Isabel in Habana Vieja.
He would visit the old Partagus factory and the shop each day wearing a Casa Del Habano Partagus t shirt. And apparently he was, and still might be a huge Partagus fan. Cool. So he went to Havana. He was sitting at the rolling desks, rolling cigars, smoking cigars in the factory, In the store who knew, but this book, there's tons of celebrities in here.
Spiel pictures of Steven Spielberg next to Fidel Castro, other actors. Unbelievable. So a couple of things that we didn't know about Partagus that, uh, I learned from Partagus El Libre published in 2012.
**Bam Bam:** So that's my book report for today, boys. So you'll let us borrow that, of course.
**Poobah:** It's about honor. Code.
**Bam Bam:** I don't know. I actually
**Poobah:** watched that movie the other day. I think you read it all in English. You can't handle the truth. It was a great movie. Are you gonna sit on that wall? You, Lieutenant Weinberg. [00:29:00]
**Gizmo:** So boys, while I was talking, what has happened with the cigar? Anything exciting?
**Bam Bam:** I
**Gizmo:** got one new note. That I was surprised by.
I got
**Senator:** a faint bit of cherry. Cherry? Your taste
**Bam Bam:** receptors may be off tonight.
**Poobah:** It's been, it's still pretty flat
**Senator:** for me, I'm not gonna lie. Bam, how are your taste receptors doing over there?
**Bam Bam:** Pretty dull at the moment. How much,
**Senator:** how much dried fruit are you getting? None.
**Bam Bam:** I wish I was, I wish I was getting some dried fruit.
What about citrus? No citrus either, damn it.
**Poobah:** Trigger warning.
You sure you're not getting any dried fruit? Now,
**Gizmo:** now. Citrus? Don't poke the bear. Yeah, I agree with you, this really hasn't changed at all.
**Poobah:** It's pretty flat. I mean, if I was smoking this blind, I honestly wouldn't be Impressed. Impressed. The box is great. [00:30:00] The build is great. But like, I don't know what else is going
**Senator:** on here that's that exciting.
What's a shame is I think like when we started smoking this a number of guys described it as like a luxurious smoke.
**Poobah:** Yeah.
**Senator:** And it is so smooth and even a little creamy that like it has the ingredients to be like a really special luxurious cigar. But it just needs more flavor to go along with that, to be in that category.
That's what's so sad. It just
**Rooster:** needs one Ligero leaf. Yeah. And half a Medio Tiempo leaf,
**Senator:** and
**Rooster:** that would just do it right.
**Bam Bam:** And then we can call it a Cohiba. You missed your inspection that day. They must've, uh, missed that
**Rooster:** leaf. I mean, it needs, it needs something, right? I mean, it's missing one leaf. It's, it's missing that ohm factor.
**Senator:** It's just shocking. I mean, there's more Ligero and Partagas cigars than really any market. I don't understand. It's unlike how this is part of the Partagas line.
**Pagoda:** I think they should just change the label, call it a different cigar. [00:31:00]
**Gizmo:** Well, I do wonder, you know, with that in mind and what we talked about earlier, like even the Linea Maestra, I've only smoked one or two of those.
Those are flatlining as well. And they are. They're very similar. Yeah. In, in DNA, like, I just think they're trying to pull that part of his DNA a little bit more mild, you know, and I'm, I'm wondering if the linear maestro is even going to be a hit because you know, just like these, they're very expensive cigars.
**Poobah:** Yeah. You're like, you're not getting the traditional, um, alphabet series DNA that I think that we love. Um, which is that kind of cinnamon. You know, that kind of, it's a cinnamon bal, it's an ear. It's, they're, they're earthy. They're, they've got a lot going on. And you can, they have very distinctive notes across the alphabet line.
Yeah. Um, you know, they, they're kind of all little, they're all kind of cousins leading up to almost the E two where you, you're getting more dessert, more vanilla, but you can, you still. [00:32:00] It's, they're all still kind of related, um, where the P2, I feel like can be a pack a little bit more punch, um, than maybe the D4 at times, um, depending on the age of them and whatever, but you're just not, or even the, the part of the short that I had before the podcast here tonight, um, that cigar.
Well, that thing's a flavor bomb. This is not. Hyperbolic to say that it's like flavor wise, it out punches this at this point. Sure. Like in a big way
**Gizmo:** for a fifth or sixth, the sixth, the price.
**Poobah:** Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's hyperbolic to say
**Gizmo:** that. I
**Bam Bam:** agreed. A hundred percent agreed.
**Gizmo:** So boys, let's talk about our pairing tonight.
It's time. I don't know what we're drinking tonight. No one knows. It was kept from me. No one. All of us. Gizmo
**Senator:** doesn't know what we're drinking tonight. We wanted to have a special spirit to go with this cigar and just, um, a quick toast to [00:33:00] honor a lizard that passed recently. Um, Gizmo, uh, lost his mom and, uh, we all wanted to be able to, uh, enjoy something with him.
And we know how much Gizmo loves Weller. Ooh. And so we were able to, uh, a shout out to Lizard Henry who helped us procure a very Lizard Henry. Henry to. Very difficult bottle to procure. Really? That, uh, a few of us were able to enjoy with him, uh, recently, um, on the anniversary of his father's passing. Uh, it's the Weller 12 year.
This is Weller? Ooh. This is Weller. It is one of the smoothest bourbons I've ever drank. We're all going to sip it
**Bam Bam:** neat. I'm not going to kid you. I thought I was drinking a cognac of some kind. It
**Gizmo:** looks like it cheers. It does.
**Senator:** Very quickly. Yes. In honor of Gizmo's mom, who obviously did an amazing job raising him.
We're so lucky to call him a great friend. Correct. May she rest in peace and her memory live on forever.
**Gizmo:** Thank you guys. Cheers. This is very kind. Cheers. very much. Cheers. God bless. It's very kind of you.
**Bam Bam:** God bless [00:34:00] Mama Gizmo. Cheers.
**Gizmo:** Thank you guys. It's been a rough few months, as you know. And, uh, rough few, last few weeks.
**Bam Bam:** We're lucky to have you here, buddy.
**Senator:** And the listeners should know, through it all, Tuesday morning, every week, 10 to 5 a. m.
**Bam Bam:** Editing at Monday at 2 a. m. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** You know, I, I, I've told you guys this privately, but, you know, um, I think we're Certainly cigars, you know, obviously is the foundation of what we do here, but even more so our group and what we do here with this podcast and putting that appointment in the calendar each week.
Obviously we've talked about over the last two and a half years, how it makes it a priority for us. We get here. We love our listeners. We love doing this. We love sitting down together and having this experience. Great cigars like we've had or mediocre cigars like this one's kind of starting out right now.
Um, Putting that thing in the calendar and what we do here has been a, a real rock for me over the last few months. As you know, it's really been the only thing outside of [00:35:00] that other part of my life that I've been consistently able to do. So I'm very grateful for that. Like this has really created normalcy for me
**Bam Bam:** as we are as well.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Over the last, you know, six months and the last six weeks have been. Horrendous. But you know, this thing of ours has been a real rock. So I'm very grateful for you guys. Love you, bro. And I appreciate it. I love you guys. And this is very, very kind. So thank you. Yeah. I love, love you very
**Poobah:** much. The fellowship, um, of, uh, well, of this podcast has been, has been great.
Um, we've been able to share so many experiences together. Um. During the, you know, during the broadcast and also, you know, and, and after, you know, after, after, you know, after we record, it's not like we're like, Hey, see you later. And sometimes see you next week. Sometimes we are, if you know, we all have responsibilities, but, um, generally we, you know, we hang out generally, we choose to be irresponsible and make decisions.
Yeah. [00:36:00] Um, but we do, you know, we spend time together. I mean, we don't just get together for the show. We, we, we spend time together. We talk to each other. We, you know, we, we, we, we share our wins together. We share, you know, we share our losses together and, you know, that's fellowship. And, and I think to Senator's point, like he always said, you know, the cigar is a, is a great equalizer.
**Rooster:** And we were friends before the pod and we will be friends. You know, during the pot, it will never end. That's right. I want to say,
**Senator:** yeah, we're locked in. But to this point, I mean, it was very gratifying. Even just, um, I'll
**Poobah:** be in Velcro. Me, me and Rooster will be in Velcro shoes and tube socks. In Boca del Vista.
Broadcasting remotely from a retirement home. Hey, I'll make it happen. I'll make it happen. Assisted living. We'll be in assisted living. I'm going to be in my,
**Bam Bam:** I'm going to be in my Jag [00:37:00] cruising around at 80. No problem. No, it's just a little bit from me.
**Pagoda:** Convertible.
**Senator:** And the rest of the lizards will be my leathery tan.
But to the, to all the points that are being made, I mean, I think. Us even meeting listeners when we've traveled and, you know, most recently obviously at PCA and just hearing from some of them, things like over the last few years, you guys have been part of like some of the biggest moments of my life, my highs, my lows.
And so, you know, I think Gizmo always talks about how there's that invisible chair in the room that kind of the listener sits in to hear it from listeners that they feel like they've shared some of their biggest life moments with us is really powerful. And, uh, I just think emphasizes
**Bam Bam:** why what we do is so important.
Even the emails that we've gotten. Lizard Eric sent an email that I'll never forget. Now I happen to know him, but he said when he feels alone and he listens to our podcast, He Likes a Cigar, he feels he's with us. That's [00:38:00] powerful. That's what it's all about. It's powerful. Yeah.
**Senator:** Yeah. And when the listeners hold BAM accountable, it's extremely powerful.
So
**Pagoda:** please continue to do that. I love you all. I
**Bam Bam:** love
**Pagoda:** you all.
**Poobah:** Yeah. I mean, you know, look, I don't think the, I don't think BAM's accountability hour will ever end. It's, it's, it's, well, it's a living, breathing thing. Well, it's timeless. It's the, oh, is it the accountability hour is timeless. It's like an onion.
**Rooster:** It's like an onion. You peel one layer and another layer, you just keep going, keep
**Poobah:** going. All
**Pagoda:** right.
**Poobah:** Yeah,
**Gizmo:** but listen, I, I gotta say, you know, ball busting aside, I'm, uh, I'm terribly grateful for this thing. You know, just even editing the podcast, like just knowing I had to get that done and creating this kind of responsibility that we've, you know, built, [00:39:00] you know, Tuesday, 5 a.
m. This people that are relying
**Bam Bam:** on
**Gizmo:** has to hit, you know, and they're relying
**Bam Bam:** on that issue every Monday, Tuesday morning. Yeah. And that's,
**Gizmo:** it's like, you know, it's, that is like, that is like a religion to me, making sure that that podcast hits no matter what happens. And what that's created though, is, is an ability to.
Disconnect from whatever else is going on and just hyper focus on that and get it done and I'm very grateful for it and Very grateful for you guys in our listeners I mean, it's just uh It's really a beautiful thing that we've built and like senator said to hear that from people who are outside the room But then to experience it Inside the room when this terrible shit is happening for months and months and I'm driving back and forth, but I'm still able to see you guys every week.
And when this microphone is in front of my face, it all disappears. Um, that is really, really powerful for me, you know? So, Yeah, I'm very, very grateful. And thank you for this amazing spirit. Um, it's awesome. It's delicious. We're drinking it neat. We're grateful. And
**Poobah:** we're grateful for you. I mean, we're grateful for the work that you put into the [00:40:00] show.
Oh, yeah. Um, we couldn't do it without you. And, um, you know, Gizmo really, he, You know, he, he curates the content. He, you know, he's, he's essentially the host of the show and, and, and really gets it done, um, you know, in terms of the editing, um, and the pre production stuff and, and, you know, so cheers to you for your commitment and, um, You know, and we love you.
Cheers, boys. Thank you. In a very heterosexual way. Correct. Okay. Thanks, guys. Very grateful. Nice surprise tonight. My man. Thanks, boys. Cheers. And you know, it's ironic. I just want to say something about this, about the Weller. There's a strange irony that's happening here because the Weller tastes more like part of this.
It's a cinnamon thing. Yeah. Then the part of this tastes like part of this right now. It's like, The SCHs berries tastes like SCHs berries, . If you've ever seen super troopers, it's like the [00:41:00] weller tastes like weller weller, but part it tastes like parus. Uh uh. This weller would particular Weller would pair so well with like an HD four, let's say.
Incredibly sure. You, you would just be like, wow, like this is so unbelievable. But it's almost, it's like, it's giving you more part because it's
**Gizmo:** like helping this cigar, which desperately needs it. So I was going to say it is helping this cigar. It is. Can you pull the bottle up? Oh
**Senator:** yeah.
**Gizmo:** So I, while you're doing that centered, I just want to make a point to something that Pagoda said.
It's a beautiful, that's a beautiful one. Where'd you get it?
**Senator:** How'd you get it? How did Henry's? That is not easy to get. Lizard Henry has a friend who, We have jokingly called the gizmo of bourbon. Where his procurement of bourbon is like unparalleled. And when I say unparalleled, this is a bottle that He's proficient.
Oh, more than proficient. [00:42:00] I mean, this is a bottle that that's quite the compliment because it's so hard to find. It retails like 70 to 100, but it you will not find this cheaper than 200 bucks a bottle. Some are even selling it for 300. We were able to get it for two with shipping.
**Bam Bam:** Wow.
**Senator:** And the funny thing is, I was talking to Lizard Henry about this a few days ago, and the challenge was to get this, find it.
And have it shipped in time for us to record. And this guy who sources bourbon all over the place finds someone who's a bourbon collector in Nutley, New Jersey who happens to have a bottle. And we were able to get it sourced locally in time for the pod. I literally, uh, Lizard Henry gave me the bottle yesterday.
Incredible. That's
**Gizmo:** incredible.
**Senator:** Yeah. Local. No, that's amazing. Well, thank you guys. We were willing to have it shipped from anywhere. It was just, we need it in time and go figure in not just our state, but locally even to find wild. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** It is. Thank you guys for doing that. It's really drinking. And this is the [00:43:00] highlight of the
**Gizmo:** show right now.
It's it's
**Bam Bam:** part of this bourbon. So is the
**Gizmo:** label black on it? Is that it's really nice. So it's
**Senator:** a black label with like a golds, um, lettering on it. The Weller, a 12 year. And I was, you know, I I've said this many times on the podcast. I, I will enjoy some bourbons, but I'm not a bourbon connoisseur. I don't drink a ton of bourbon for me.
When I had this with lizard Henry the other day, this is the smoothest bourbon I've ever had. Oh yeah. I mean, we all drank it need to start. And there was ice in case anyone wanted and not a single person touched even a chip of ice just because it was so smooth and the flavor it's got a long finish, but it's just.
It's such a refined spirit. I like can't believe like this is, this drinks like an 18 year single malt wood. Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** it's, it's incredibly, there's a, there's a touch of cinnamon, touch of vanilla. It's so smooth and easy to drink. There's just enough body for you to be interested. It's, it's unbelievable. [00:44:00] What's the proof of this?
Because it doesn't,
**Senator:** it's exemplary. It's got to be 45, 90 proof.
**Poobah:** It, it, it, it, it's exemplary in every way. Well done. And you know, it's very interesting too. I mean, you know, we're smoking a $60 cigar
**Bam Bam:** and a $200 bottle. Well, bourbon Well, but,
**Poobah:** but the two, but the value in the $200 bottle of bourbon Mm. Yeah.
Knocks this off. Knock, knock,
**Gizmo:** knock. Knocks this. I mean, think between the six of us, this is $360 of cigars we're smoking. Right. You know, and that's a $200 bottle of Weller, which Correct. Which is knocking this out of the park.
**Poobah:** Outclasses it, you know, by far, but I will say it's, it's not unpleasant. It's just kind of flat and it's not, it's not giving us the, it's not saying, Hey, hello, I'm part of this or hello.
I'm a, I'm a departure from that. And here's something really different. It's, it's
**Gizmo:** unfortunate. And what, you know, what's funny about you [00:45:00] saying that is if it, if it was a departure, like it is, and it was great, and this is a new entrant into the excellence of part of this, I'd be totally fine with it. You know, understanding the different degrees of strength and, and, and body that you'd, you'd experience across the line.
I'm fine with that. Like the fact that it's different and not good or not great, like we expect is not, it's not good. It's not good. It's
**Senator:** so true. And I wish I could remember the cigars and maybe some of you guys can help me out. I know what you're going to say. There's some cigar that we did recently on the podcast and maybe even multiple that I remember us saying the cigar was milder than any of us would ever typically reach for, but it had just enough flavor and it was complex that it kept.
All of us interested in this cigar. Was it a
**Poobah:** nuttman? It could have been. Not something from the Nuttman line. I don't So, 'cause they tend to do that and be milder, but then they give you enough, you know what I mean? I don't think it was Nuttman.
**Senator:** Was it a Cuban or No, it could have even been a new world. I just, just vividly remember all of us saying this is [00:46:00] much milder than any of us would ever pull for or reach for.
But it shockingly had like complexity. And just enough flavor that we all appreciated what that blender was doing with that cigar and it did pretty well
**Pagoda:** and it kept developing. I know like this is not developing at all. No,
**Poobah:** no, it's not. But that's where if they
**Senator:** could have done that, I think all of us could have rallied around this cigar, even though it's different, but it just doesn't give you enough.
It's too muddled.
**Poobah:** Senator, it's, uh, in my view, it's, it's a little bit, it, there's nothing that's like jumping out at you. That's not, that's speaking, that's speaking, that's speaking to me. Not
**Bam Bam:** the Especiales, was it?
**Gizmo:** Might have been the Monte Cristo. Could have been.
**Bam Bam:** Could have been that. Monte
**Gizmo:** Cristo Especiales.
I happen to
**Bam Bam:** love that
**Gizmo:** cigar. Yeah. Because that may
**Senator:** have been one that we said like, Wasn't obviously Monty like we kind of look for like a firmly medium experience with the Monty and that that was a bit of a departure, but in a nice way or the Monty Carlos, the poor Lauren [00:47:00] Yaga. That's a possibility.
Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** although that was a bit fruity. It was really nice, but I think that could have been, yeah, maybe,
**Poobah:** you know, like a, like a schwa supreme is not a, is not a strong, particularly strong cigar, but it's very flavorful, but it delivers, like it delivers these. Thank you. It's clearly medium bodied. Yeah. Um, a lot of dry fruit in that cigar.
No,
that's true for that cigar. That's true. But, but it delivers like an experience. It delivers, you know, you're like, wow. This swash Supreme is delivering like a very unique experience for, you know, a medium cigar. I mean, most Cubans are medium, but it, it, it, it's, it's giving you something. It's giving you something special.
It's giving you something different in their distinct notes. You can pull out of it. It's just very unfortunate that at this price point and as an LCD H release, that you're kind of saying it, that, that it's just, it's, it's moving along so flat. [00:48:00] Where it's not even previewing. Well, like I can see if you laid it down, like, you know, maybe in the last third, if it showed its youth and you go, okay, I see if, if we laid it down, we can see how much this is going to get better.
I'm not even getting that. And, and I don't, and I don't think that's
**Senator:** an
**Poobah:** extreme
**Senator:** commentary. And it's a shame because now I'm thinking of another Cuban cigar that. Is very mild and very creamy, but delivers it in such an interesting way. And this was a rooster had sourced these a while back that, um, Monte Cristo 80th or 85th anniversary.
Oh yeah. And that came talk about a beautiful box. That's probably one of the top five presentations we've seen where it was similarly in like that felt kind of casing, beautiful black lacquer box. And it was this little cigar. And I remember we all went to dinner and we were smoking it. Yeah. And it was mild, but so creamy, and the flavor was [00:49:00] complex enough that it kept even Rooster, who loves a full bodied smoke, all of us interested all the way through.
A hundred percent. And it's like, if Partagas could have done something like that, like Monty had done, that would be intriguing. Can I,
**Gizmo:** can I say, I'm thinking of two cigars, totally on the opposite spectrum of what you're saying. That's a high end release, very exclusive. I haven't even had one of those, the 80th.
You guys have been talking about that for years. That was those before we make it. That was before you met me. That's right. There's two cigars I'm thinking about though, that, that are popping in my mind as, you know, cigars that are kind of under the umbrella of Partagas is the mother factory. Number one is La Gloria Cubana, uh, Turquino's the new release from them, which is a 20, 25 cigar.
We reviewed on the podcast. It was delicious. Performed very, very well. That's a cigar. That's probably was a year old like this one. Yeah. Think about how much more flavor that cigar had. Oh, very flavor. For a third of the price. Yeah. Yeah. Then the other one I'm thinking about is almost mild that that cigar, that was mild.
Mild at Best Mile.
**Poobah:** Medium.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Poobah:** Well, yes, and think about all, [00:50:00] think about all the up and um, think about the up man catalog. The higher end of it. Yeah. How much, you know, there's a range in there from, from the 46, which gives a little bit of punch to all the way up to the 50, which is less. Up through the upman two, which is very complex.
You know, there's so many different things, but there's a consistent DNA that's there, like with the alphabet series and with a part of this that you go for, and this is just
**Senator:** the departure
**Poobah:** that
**Senator:** I don't understand, but there's a key difference. There's an LCD band on this. Yeah. And this is a problem with, think of all the LCD releases that we've been burned on.
I don't recall a single LCD H release that we have scored very high. The only one is the Culebra. Yeah. And ironically he doesn't have the band. So it holds if we just say it's true, it has the band. It's not great, but with the band, it's a problem.
**Poobah:** You know, it brings me back [00:51:00] to, but, but this doesn't preview like the Ramon alone is number two previewed in the green racing box when we knew it was going to be a good cigar.
We knew that that cigar. Was going to be good eventually. And then you smoked them all before they got good. But right. Yeah, you really messed up. I, you know, I did do that. I'm guilty of that. That was a bad move. Cause man, they got good. And then he wasn't here for that episode. But I did, I believe I did get, I did, I did get rooster a box.
I believe I did get him one. I think I, whatever, anyway, it doesn't matter. Let's not go back in time. Um, but, but it previewed well, it previewed well, like at the, like, you know, the last third of it, you, you, you kind of were like saying to yourself, wow, the first two thirds were, were really good. It just needs time.
And everyone agreed that it just needed time. And then that was a limitata, right? It's a limitata. Exactly. I'm talking like extra band just. High level, generally [00:52:00] speaking, because limitatus let you down too.
**Senator:** Um, no, they do. But I, I've always said this, my, my personal opinion on this, I think limitatus perform best again, relative to regionals and, and certainly LCDH releases, I agree with
**Gizmo:** that.
Speaking of Ramon Iones, by the way, the other cigar that came to mind is you were talking about Ramon. That performed very well with just the number three, like a year of age on it. It was another cigar that was kind of mild to medium. Is that the LCD HB? No, no, no. It's not an LCD H. It's a regular production.
It's a little bigger than the RAS. It's a little longer, a little longer and a little thicker. A bit. Yeah. It's and that was a great cigar too. I
**Poobah:** missed that
**Bam Bam:** review. Yes, you did. Unfortunately, we missed you that night. That scored an
**Gizmo:** 8. 6 Rafael Gonzalez. Yeah. Corona still on sale. I mean that. Oh, that was great.
That got as a great cigar. That was a great cigar. Yeah. And that's a cheap cigar. This is a $60 cigar we have in our hands. I can't understand it to your point about the [00:53:00] DNA that runs through up and even though there's a little bit of diversion here or there
**Poobah:** and the alphabet series
**Gizmo:** and well, what I'm saying is in Partagus, what I don't understand is that we're experiencing a cigar.
I experienced it in the linea maestra. We might review that some point down the road. The new line from them. These are serious departures from the DNA of Partagus. And I, it's, it's not computing for me what's going on here box
**Senator:** to put these in the single nicest cigar box we've ever seen. It's a stunning, it's like a crime.
It's great marketing. D4s are more deserving to be in that box. I mean, any standard production thing Particus makes is more deserving. Yep.
**Rooster:** I mean, what, what was the blender thinking? Like what flavor profile is he making these for? Like, you know, I mean, if you think about it, it's, You, I mean, it's so hard to pick out like flavor.
It's very weird, right? I mean, you're putting these, these cigars, I mean, it's an LCD H release. It's in a beautiful ornate box. [00:54:00] I mean, these boxes are going for 1200 is actually a very fair price. That's kind of low right now. Yeah. They're going up in the 16, 1, 700 range. And with this
**Bam Bam:** experience tonight, would you buy the box?
No, correct.
**Rooster:** Empty box. Maybe. Yes. But the thing
**Poobah:** is these, like when you take the bands off, when you look at this, um, all of it, the presentation, the whole thing, like how the cigars fit in the box, when you look at the band. The, the build and the construction, like this is long filler, beautifully rolled cigars.
The bands are perfect. Everything's perfect. Everything checks out. Like the experience is perfect. Yes, but it has an LCD band on it. That's
**Gizmo:** the second band effects. Like the aging tobacco oils are affected by two pieces of glued on paper or [00:55:00] something that it just, Takes a nosedive. I don't know what it is, but it's not great for the price.
This
**Poobah:** is bad meat in a can.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. It's not good. Is it a dumpster fire? I don't think it's a dumpster fire. It's not good for 60
**Poobah:** bucks. When you transition, I transitioned from a part of your short into this. And if you put me on a desert Island. And you said, I'll give you a hundred boxes of those or a hundred boxes of part of your shorts to smoke for the rest of your life.
Even 50 boxes of part of your shorts. Half of it. I take half the quantity just to get the flavor. Yeah. Two to one. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. That says something
**Bam Bam:** I gotta tell you. I'm,
**Poobah:** I'm, I'm not lacking. I'm getting outraged. I'm getting outraged now.
**Bam Bam:** No, you're good. Got What's la Not lacking flavor is the aroma on this glass.
Just put your nose to this. Oh, it's so good. This wellers. I'm so glad. It is vanilla and caramel all day long on the nose.
**Gizmo:** I'm so glad we did this. Neat. It's crazy because this, so we just let a D four now we might have to . This is, [00:56:00] this is so delicious. Superb. Absolutely. Bourbon is. Unbelievable bourbon.
Unbelievable. B
**Bam Bam:** again, uh, we didn't know what this was. I didn't think this was a bourbon. It was not drinking like a quintessential bourbon. Yeah. And
**Gizmo:** it's such a dark amber. The, the color of the spirit. Yeah. And the viscosity too right's. So nice. Yeah,
**Senator:** it is. It just swirl it in the glass and look at how it just like clings to the glass.
It's true. It's a hell of a spirit.
**Poobah:** It's a hell of a spirit . And you're going, it's on the gray. It's 200 on the gray market. It's 200 on the gray. It's fitting to do with a Cuban cigar . You know
**Bam Bam:** I'm gonna use that. I like that. This is nuts.
**Gizmo:** So speaking of the gray market boys, let's talk about the parent company of good segue, by the way, the cigar in our hand.
Let's talk about Habano SSA. This has been big news, big, big news all over the Cuban cigar internet websites, forums, Facebook groups, et cetera. Big news came out specific to Switzerland, but it really, [00:57:00] really sets up bigger worldwide implications, which I think is freaking everybody out. Let me lay this out as succinctly as I can for our listeners tonight.
Habano SSA through a site called cigar, cigar. Which is a Swiss publication talking about allocation and new LCDH stores in Switzerland. It came out that Habanos SA is going to be reducing the supplies of Cuban cigars to Switzerland, which in and of itself is not huge news, right? For the worldwide, you know, allocation of Cuban cigars, it's not huge news.
But when you read into this, when you understand what's going on, you start to learn that Habanos SA. It has distinctly come to the conclusion that in markets around the world where they don't own significant pieces of their distribution arms of Cuban cigars, they're going to start reducing allotment to those distributors of up to 40%, which is huge, huge news, meaning that.
[00:58:00] Habanos S. A. is going away from the longstanding agreements and deals they had with distributors like Hunters and Frankow, Pacific Cigar Company, uh, you know, J. J. Fox in Ireland, and, and many, many others around the world. If they don't have a significant piece of the ownership and control of those distribution arms in those regions, their, their supplies may be cut as much as 40%.
So what that means then is that not only are those markets going to lose 40%, but those. That 40 percent of that market is going to be distributed elsewhere, where Habanos retains control of the distributors. The report also mentions that the only way to avoid that reduction in allocation would be to totally change the ownership ownership structure of the distributor.
Which means that Habanos is coming in. So let's say hunters in Franco, for example, who's been the distributor. For the UK for, I don't know, 150 [00:59:00] years saying you have to give us 40 percent of your business or 50 percent of our, your business back, or we're going to start diverting allocation away from you, which obviously in the way the Latin Americans do business, there's a lot of handshakes.
There's a lot of. History. It's a very family oriented way of doing business. We see this when we go to Cuba, the people we meet in Cuba, this is very much not in line with how Cubans act, do business, treat people. This is very much in the Chinese way of doing business, which obviously is a significant piece of, of what's happening.
**Senator:** Even that's similar in the new world space. I mean, you think of any of the big, you know, new world manufacturers, they have really, you know, close relationships with retailers that they've been stocking for. Decades and they want, you know, they trust to have their product. We laugh about some retailers here and wonder how do they get this crazy allocation of certain brands like Fuente or others?
It's a relationship and time
**Gizmo:** and time. Yeah. And what's interesting, you know, even you think about Steve [01:00:00] Sacco, who we had on the podcast It was on, uh, on with us a few weeks ago. He even said that he doesn't even have sales people on the road, but he had a few that he's had since day one and he keeps them on because they're his guys.
Yeah. And I think that's the Latin American way of doing business is that those are our guys, those are our people. And it's, it's so interesting that they've explored. I mean, we've certainly, we've seen this already happening, by the way. We've already seen the, the Asian markets getting a lot of allocation.
There's so many LCDHs around the world that have empty shelves. They're now even selling new world cigars. So this is not something that's new, but to see it on paper like this is pretty crazy. Yeah.
**Poobah:** They're not going to give up equity in their business. They're not going to give up equity in their business to, to Habano SSA.
Is it, is it more of, okay, based on the allocation that we give you, we want to, we, we want a [01:01:00] certain what you would call in the distribution world, a rebate or, or, uh, or a fee. So a person, a fee of what, The allocation that we're giving you. So if they're giving X, then they get what would be a rebate of sorts based on what they're kind of providing.
They can't be demanding equity in people's business. I don't
**Gizmo:** know the mechanics of how it's going to work. I'm saying that I don't know how the mechanics are going to work, but what I do know is that Habano says the upper hand here, they have said. That if you don't give us a bigger piece of the pie, however the mechanics work out, equity, rebates, coupons, discounts, you pay more, whatever it is, if you don't give us a bigger piece of the pie of what we're selling you, we are going to divert your allocation up to 40 percent elsewhere.
That is an explicit, that is, that is an unbelievable.
**Bam Bam:** It's egregious and outrageous
**Senator:** is what it is. Well,
**Bam Bam:** it's crazy. I mean, it's a shakedown.
**Senator:** It's not a
**Bam Bam:** negotiation. You have no
**Senator:** recourse. It's like,
**Bam Bam:** it's, it's also no, no coincidence [01:02:00] down that we know the Habanos has a capacity issue. They're not making as much inventory as they were making at one time.
They're positioning themselves so that they don't expose, I guess, this fact to the rest of the world. I'm not sure. I don't know. More control over the prices, right? And a lot of us, look, a lot of us in this room own businesses. If we're producing something at X volume and if we can no longer produce that, we need to continue to stay in business.
So what do we do? We put a stranglehold on suppliers and vendors and distributors. Yeah. Or you raise prices. Or you raise prices. Which they're doing as well. Yeah. So that's a simultaneous,
**Gizmo:** two pronged approach
**Bam Bam:** that
**Gizmo:** they're taking right now. The other thing I think too, and this is my hypothesizing this, this certainly wasn't in an article, but I think not only the money piece of it, but there's a control piece of it where I think Habanos.
Is effectively trying to eliminate the gray market. They're trying to eliminate these retailers that are able to buy stock from various, you know, LCD H is around the world. [01:03:00] Just, you know, they're, they're picking the stuff up off the shelves that aren't selling. They sell it to guys like us in the United States, places like I Havana's other sites that ship here.
They're trying to eliminate the gray market and keep as much control. In in their hands as possible and of course money too But I think there's a control piece of this as well. It
**Poobah:** sounds similar And if we don't need to go down this vortex, but it sounds similar to maybe what's happening with booker I mean and what rolex is trying to do to control The gray market there, they're trying to have, you know, pre owned Booker, you know, they're, they're, they're eliminating authorized dealers and they're trying to control.
They're trying, yes, they can only make so much. They make what? 1. 2 million watches a year. That's all they can make. And they're trying, you know, it may be, that's, it's an analogous situation and I'm not,
**Senator:** that is a good analogy. I mean, what, what Poobah is saying, you know, Rolex for the first time, the gray market in watches.
[01:04:00] Sell pre owned mostly, um, Rolexes and other high end, uh, time pieces. What Rolex has cleverly now done is they've started their own pre owned program through their authorized dealers to try to cut out the gray market over time. Now, the problem is the way they've priced those pre owned watches. is so aggressive that everyone is still exactly.
Everyone is still going to go to the gray market because it's much cheaper than getting it directly through an ad there. Um, but who knows if their pricing strategy will change.
**Gizmo:** That's a really interesting point because we talked a few weeks ago about this new Habanos aging program. Oh yeah. I think is a reaction to the auction sites selling second hand, Aged cigars, private seller, private seller.
I think that's a reaction to seeing the market willing to bare high, high dollar amounts for seriously aged cigars. Another area where I think with a new program, they're just trying [01:05:00] to exert more control, but they're also changing their
**Bam Bam:** image and they're positioning themselves knowing that they can't produce what they used to produce.
Of course. That's the big thing here.
**Poobah:** I think their analogous scenarios in that, it's, you know, It's a scenario where. You know, as, as the, as the, the parent, as being at the top of the chain, you know, your Habana SSA, or whether you're Rolex, you're seeing such an active gray market where things are being marked up, marked up and out the back door, out the back door.
I think it's very analogous because that's what happens. I mean, sure. They go into a Rolex ad out the back door. It goes into an L L C D H it's out the back door. And I think they see this and they, they, they, you know, they see the gray markets. Um, in both these markets, um, developing, maturing, right?
Vintage cigars, uh,
**Gizmo:** standard production
**Poobah:** stuff.
**Gizmo:** And by the way, if you go to I Havana's to your point, they have a marker for Chinese buyers that they can only place certain a [01:06:00] dollar amount orders at one time because they're placing such high volume orders. Of course, a bonus is looking at that going, why are we allocating to places where we don't have control and a bigger piece of the pie, we could just move that allocation here and completely eliminate the need for this, this gap fill by the gray market to supply our customers.
**Poobah:** It's certainly going to be annoying, right? To Habanos or to Rolex to say, okay, the gray mark is just getting too big. Exactly. And it's just a way to kind of just tighten their distribution now. I'm not saying that that's
**Senator:** right or wrong, but let's not forget, you know, in both cases, they're actually happy that the gray market was created, of course, because the gray market is what allowed for those higher prices.
And the customers have been trained. You go to Havana and you buy a part of his D4 and you go on the gray market and you're going to be paying way less in Havana. At an LCD H then you are actually on the gray market, but now they've gotten so clever to say, well, wow, this is so brilliant. This markup that they're able to build in, that people are willing to pay, but how do we get a cut of [01:07:00] it?
And the only way to do that is to gain more control over the full supply chain.
**Poobah:** Yeah. Yeah. And I think that they're very,
**Pagoda:** It's
**Senator:** smart, but the key to it is the pricing strategy has to be right because for Rolex, it's failing right now because they've so aggressively priced their pre owned, uh, product. That people are still going to the gray market for it. And the only advantage is they say, well, we'll give you this Rolex warranty with it, which is I think two years where most gray market dealers it's one year, but no one's going to pay an extra few thousand dollars for a watch just for that extra year warranty on it.
It just doesn't, the math just doesn't compute similarly here. I mean, the pricing strategy has to be right, that people are going to be willing to pay whatever that premium is through this LCDH that Habanos SA owns 50 percent or more of, and not go elsewhere to try to Correct. Sure.
**Poobah:** [01:08:00] Correct. You know, well, the distinctive differences that is that, um, cigars are consumable.
Yeah. They go
**Rooster:** away. They go
**Poobah:** away. Once you use it, they're gone. You know, Rolex is the last forever. I mean, they, you know, there there's a whole vintage market out there. I mean, there's a whole secondhand market out there. Um, because it's a durable product. These you smoke them. They're gone. Yeah. They're gone.
The other thing too. They want to choke it. You know, you have
**Gizmo:** supply and we've seen this. I mean, it seems like Habano's a tab, a Cuba really is, is having difficulty producing just raw tobacco, which we're going to see not today, even though we're talking about that story today, we're going to see that in two to three years where They're going to have less supply and the price is obviously, they're going to raise to meet whatever dollar amounts they need to meet.
But of course they want a bigger piece of the pie. So I guess what's interesting is that everything we're saying, we already knew, right? We've seen this happening. We've seen the allocation going to Asia. We've seen the difficulty on the gray market sites, the lack of [01:09:00] inventory, et cetera. However, What's crazy is to see it on a piece of paper in a publication to understand that they're explicitly being told or strong armed, really, as you were saying, like, if you don't do this, your allocation is going to change.
It's crazy to see that and then on a
**Bam Bam:** website couple this with the farce of this aging program that they have. It just, it doesn't equate. It's crazy.
**Pagoda:** No, but it works only when the demand's high, right? Sure. And the demand has risen after COVID. But, uh, having said that, when the demand starts to fall, you'll need these distributors who have pre existing relationship with the retail outlets.
Yeah. And so it's going to be interesting to see. Well, what they're saying is It's a very fair
**Bam Bam:** point. But what they're saying is they're saying they don't need them. It's true, but
**Senator:** the irony of this situation, right? So like, let's say Habanos SA actually had all this raw material and actually could pump out cigars left and right, like the way that you create this kind of pricing environment is by restricting supply.
Like that is [01:10:00] why Rolex. And AP and paddock hold value because they don't produce a lot intentionally. If they wanted to, they could pump the, all they have to do is just build more factories and hire more employees. And they could pump out a zillion more watches. I want to do that. Like Omega or any of the other bigger, you know, watchmakers, a hundred percent, they intentionally restrict supply to keep demand so aggressive.
That they can charge a premium that none of those other brands can, that aren't part of that big three a hundred
**Poobah:** percent.
**Senator:** And so, you know, ironically, Habano says say is in this situation, not by choice, but they're very cleverly capitalizing on it because that's how they've been able to bump up pricing so aggressively to this luxury good kind of category now.
And for them, if they figure out how to actually. Procure a lot more tobacco over time and can be more selective in when and how they restrict supply and just keep this kind of aggressive pricing environment. Maybe they'll import the tobacco. They
**Gizmo:** [01:11:00] might,
**Poobah:** they might already be doing that. No, no, you're right.
Because they're going to need to do that. It's 100 percent analogous what you're saying. So whether it's by circumstance and intentional, to your point, because You know, there's only so much tobacco, the raw material that they could actually grow. Certainly Rolex and AP could expand their production capacity, hire more people, train more watchmakers, do all these things, deploy technology.
There's a whole lot of things that they can do to increase yield. This is a natural raw material source. And it's, there's variability associated with, with that raw material to make it. So yeah, a hurricane. I mean, by the way, it's not like
**Gizmo:** they're investing in the whole process to, to really build up their, their raw material creation.
I mean, it's,
**Senator:** it's a nightmare. Hector Luis is working on doubling the size of the farm. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. You're just
**Bam Bam:** going to go down and plant seeds.
**Senator:** When he says he's in Goshen every week,
**Bam Bam:** [01:12:00] he's With his Guevara on and his cigars in his pocket. That's a big secret. Well, I just, I know, it's
**Rooster:** true. Goshen shade rapper is a
**Poobah:** thing.
But I do think what's interesting, what I think a dynamic that may be taking place currently, I'm not sure, but anecdotally, certainly in, in, in, in our, in our circle of acquaintance is, uh, you know, I know that we're smoking We've we're smoking more new worlds than we've ever smoked ever. No question about it.
And, and, and I, and not by choice. Um, well,
**Senator:** no, by choice. Yeah. I mean, we started not by choice, but now we're actually finding things. We enjoy that. I mean, it's by choice. We've discovered generous. So I,
**Poobah:** I do, I really do think though, that, that, you know, the U S market does actually represent a relatively significant market share, um, um, um, you know, for a bonus, I say.
Um, [01:13:00] if, if, if, you know, the distribution model gets, you know, so tight and so aggressive and the market stays so tight there, people are just going to go, you know, like, I'm going to just order a, you know, I'm going to order a box of Davidoff, uh, uh, those Churchill bellicose, I'm going to order, you know, I'm going to order this, I'm going to order that.
There's, there's adjacent things. There's so many good new worlds out there and they're getting better and better and better that I think that, you know, they could be, they could erode their customer base, certainly in the U S what do they care? I think they don't care, you know, clearly they, they, they may not care.
Um, if they're going to put all their cards in, in, you know, in the Asian market, maybe that's what they do. And that's a business decision. But I do think that, you know, what we're seeing is, is,
**Senator:** is more. No, I completely agree. And that's why I think the pricing strategy is the single most important thing.
I'm willing to admit Habanos were [01:14:00] priced too low years ago, right? When we were talking about that, we were smoking these and everyone would say, wow, you know, you guys are smoking these Cuban cigars and we would tell anybody. We're spending less money on Cuban cigars than we are any of the new world cigars that we're buying.
They were too low. There is no question about it. So I can't fault them. Now it's too high. That's the thing. That's where the pricing strategy has got to be right. They've gone to such an extreme that it's actually pricing out a lot of people from ever even getting into that. These are young smokers that they're going to need in the future.
And that's where I've said a thousand times, like this is such a short sighted play. The strategy itself is not bad. They do need to increase pricing. They should be viewed as more of a luxury good than it certainly was in the past by price. But now they've gone so aggressive in this, that it's really pricing out a lot of people and long term that's going to actually hurt the size of the market that they could [01:15:00] sell to.
**Rooster:** I mean, they, they, I mean, the, the prices went up so high. And so quick. I mean, we're talking in two and a half years, two years, two years. Yeah.
**Senator:** Anyone who is smoking cigars period is fortunate in life, right? This is a luxury as much as we would say it's a necessity. It's a great reality. We're not going to die.
I mean, we're going to come close to it, but we're not literally going to die without us emotionally. We might get into a fight next month. You're talking about people kidding.
**Rooster:** I would die. You're talking about
**Senator:** people who Already have disposable income and are very fortunate in, in some regard. I mean, the fact that that group is feeling this pain, this is not like some essential good, like it is so outrageous to me to go to such an extreme that even people with disposable income are saying like, I'm not going to pay.
I mean, this cigar 60 to smoke a cigar. It's just crazy.
**Poobah:** If it was really, If, if this came outta the box and we smoked it tonight and it [01:16:00] blew our hair back, even, even at $40, you know, you'd say it's a lot that that's a lot of money. Yeah. You'd say, you'd say, this is, uh, you know, yeah. I'll have that once a year.
You know, I'll Sure They're putting out a, the problem is. They're putting out an, they're putting out an inconsistent product product consistently, which is, which is, which is, which is, which is not cool. You know, it's kind of like, it's a hundred percent, 40 percent of the time. It works 60, it works 60 percent of the time, every time or whatever.
It's like sex Panther by Odeon, you know, you're like, you know, you stick to what you know. And I think through this whole journey that we've been able to actually. Parse out and through the rankings, thanks to gizmo and ranking for further that sheet, because I trust that sheet. He's talking about the, uh, the, the ratings archive on our website, by the way, trust the sheet because the sheet is real and, and, and like [01:17:00] there's cigars on there that are affordable and accessible.
There are Cuban cigars on there in new world cigars in there that, that, that. Outclass the 60 cigar every day, all day, 365 days, seven days a week. And the fact that they're putting this out for 1, 200 a box or whatever it is, is I don't think it's right. Yeah,
**Gizmo:** I don't think it's right. What's interesting about this is we wrap this up.
I mean, like I said, I think it's just crazy that this is on paper and we're discussing it to this kind of level. Um, obviously it's been published that this is happening. The one final point I wanted to say about this that I think is really interesting is that I would have thought that Switzerland was a minor player, like a small player in the worldwide pie.
They don't seem to be right. What is interesting is that Switzerland was the third largest market for Cuban cigars in 2023 had no idea right behind China and Spain. So they're doing this to their [01:18:00] third largest market. Distribution market. Unbelievable in the world. That is shocking. Who won't they do it to That?
That's exactly the point. Right?
**Pagoda:** You know, it's only the Chinese are gonna be smoking cigars eventually.
**Gizmo:** It's crazy. So anyway, I have to give a shout out to Charlie at Half Wheel who put this incredible article that we've been referencing the entire time. I'm gonna put this in the episode notes so that listeners can read along exactly what we're talking about here.
Of course, shout out to the, the. Publication cigar out of Switzerland for the initial release on this, but Charlie at, at half wheel did a great, great job on this. So shout out to him to, uh, you know, giving us a good headstart on this, on this, this whole article. So yeah, this is crazy boys. And, uh, You know, we'll see, we'll see what happens here and see if this, this allocation change actually, you know, continues to degrade for the rest of the world outside of Asia and Spain.
So I,
**Poobah:** you know, I wish we, I, I so very wish that, that this [01:19:00] pairing worked out better and in, in, in the context of the conversation that we're having about allocation, distribution, price increases, where if this box blew us away tonight, or, you know, we'd be having a totally different conversation. About value and about quality.
Um, and it's disappointing. The problem
**Gizmo:** though, for me, Poobah, it's not value and quality. It's like, like, you know, we've all touched on Bam mentioned that we all own businesses. The thing that, that, that really irks me about this in, in a passionate hobby or a lifestyle that we're all in, that we're, it's all about sharing.
It's all about community. It's all about conversation, sharing information. That's what we do here as business owners. I think we all kind of use those same. Course, you know, core tenets of what we're doing in business to see this thing that we smoke every other week be totally Anti, you know, uh, those core values, totally opposite of those core [01:20:00] values when it comes to business, it's a little disturbing to me.
It's disturbing, you know? And, and I think that for me is what bothers me the most is calling someone you've been in business with for 150 years and saying, well, guess what? We're calling back a piece of this business and what other way, whatever way we do it, that is very disturbing to me.
**Senator:** And another problem, when you just think about Habanos generally, that's so different from how new world brands approach this.
There's no kind of budget line in all formats that someone can also enjoy and experience Cuban cigars. Yeah, there was at one time. You think of Padron, right? Like there's the whole thousand series. There's tons of different Vitolas. If you're a Robusto smoker, you can find a thousand series Robusto. If you like a Corona, you can find something like that.
If you like a big Gordo or Toro, you can find that. In the Habano's catalog, like you think of Partigas, the budget cigars are these tiny little petite Coronas at most, right? There's no budget [01:21:00] Robusto in any of the major brands that we love, like Partigas, Upman. There's no budget version of that. There's none in the global brands.
Premium priced.
**Poobah:** That's right. Right. For what
**Senator:** they are. Yeah. So it's like, there's not even an alternative for someone who is more budget conscious to bring them into the fold. Now, if I'm Habanos and they're going to stay on this crazy train of just jacking up the prices year after year, they're going to have to create some sort of budget lines with more of a toll is in sizes within these brands for this to be.
At all sustainable. And I say that because then the premium product is going to be going mostly to Asia, stupid prices, and the rest is going to have to go elsewhere. And that would also help fill shelves. The problem is the raw material. They can't make that long term. That's what they need to strive for, to find a way to plant more and grow more and then create a more accessible price point, because this is only going to get worse, which means you're just cutting out more [01:22:00] and more people over time.
That will ever touch a Cuban cigar. But they're running
**Bam Bam:** away from that with this aging program and their whole pricing strategy. They're completely turning their back on that whole sector of smoker that they can bring into the industry. I don't,
**Rooster:** I don't think it's really well thought out. It's not by the, by, by, by the partners in Havana's, because if it was, it would be.
They would be investing more in the infrastructure of planting more seed
**Senator:** to grow tobacco. I mean, these must be old guys making these decisions because this is just a short term in the short term. This is brilliant business. They're going to be making money hand over
**Rooster:** fist. I think they're going to, they're going to sell that piece in a few years.
They just want to cash out as much
**Pagoda:** money as
**Rooster:** they can right now.
**Pagoda:** Every decision has an opportunity cost. I think this is a great opportunity for the new world cigar. Manufacturers like Steve Saka to go to Switzerland and say, Hey, this is the time where you start introducing us guys to your market and I think that's what they're doing.
They are doing [01:23:00] and they need to become more aggressive after this decision and although and I think on the other hand, I think Havana is going to eventually, if the market is going to move east, mostly China because, you know, their unnamed partners may have a lot of distribution. In those areas. Um, I think they're going to increase the concentration risk, right?
So you're increasing risk, you know, and, uh, you're depleting the number of people who would be used to these kinds of cigars and who would seek them out. And then you have the new world, you have the competitors coming in. It's a no win situation.
**Gizmo:** Well, it's terribly unfortunate boys. And, uh, I guess, you know, this is obviously going to be an ongoing story here as more markets see the impact of this decision, but, you know, it's You know, I think for us and for smokers like us in the United States and certainly around the world, it's, it's just another factor in completely turning us off to the way that Habanos is doing business.
And it's, it's unfortunate because, you know, there are [01:24:00] times when these cigars can be really brilliant, but you know, they're, they're like, like you said, they're, they're, they're. Turning their back on their customers.
**Bam Bam:** You know,
**Gizmo:** so boys were well into the last third here of the part of gas Aliados. What's everybody thinking?
Nothing changes. Nothing has
**Bam Bam:** changed. Nothing's changed. Yeah. I think this has been a, this has been an unfortunate body, which you usually get in almost every single cigar that you smoke that even hasn't changed.
**Gizmo:** The only thing that's done for me is heated up as I've gotten closer to the head of the cigar.
Like I'm just feeling the actual. Physical, like the physics of the combustion is the only thing that's changed. It hasn't even changed in flavor. There's been no journey. There's been no change. Like, I don't understand the blending decisions called
**Rooster:** Aliados,
**Gizmo:** but I have no Alliance with
**Rooster:** this.
**Gizmo:** I'll tell you, you talk about Aliados Alliance or partners, LCDH.
It perfectly ties into the story. We just told about, you know, how, how Habanos is treating their partners. They're Aliados. You know, [01:25:00] this is a good cigar actually for this discussion tonight. So boys, before we get to the ratings, we had a couple of listener emails. I wanted to get to this one came from lizard Peter.
He said, good evening, gentlemen. I have listened to your podcast for several months now, and I enjoy the knowledge since I am a novice just starting to enjoy cigars, but you always mentioned Cubans. Obviously we're smoking one tonight and I know that they cannot be purchased here in the United States. So I'm wondering where, where can I acquire a few For my personal use.
Thank you very much. Lizard Peter. So obviously we named a few of the gray market sites, which are obviously well serving the United States. I think number one, of course, is friends of El Habano. Uh, you know, F. O. H. They're the best. Obviously, I have an, as we mentioned a few times, there are some sites that sell singles in five packs that we've, we've pointed out in the past.
E. G. M. E. G. M. Cigars. Cigar
**Rooster:** One. Cigar One. Um, Bellhop. Bellhop is another one. I don't know if bellhop really sells [01:26:00] singles, but I think EGM and cigar one does a couple of other ones out of Switzerland. Cigars of Habanos cigars out of Hong Kong, out of Hong Kong. Cigar terminal out of Switzerland. Cigar terminal.
Yeah.
**Pagoda:** I just hope the listener does not live in Miami because if he does, I think just give up.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. The reason why pagoda saying that is the seizure rate of shipments into the Panhandle of the United States. They're the southeast of Pagoda. Just needs a pair of
**Bam Bam:** sunglasses before he when he gets off the plane.
I mean
**Gizmo:** It's also when Pagoda brings the boxes in there as Pagoda would say when you're an easy target that
**Senator:** That deer and headlights look don't work
**Bam Bam:** It don't work,
**Senator:** but I would also just say for this listener. It is very hard to find websites that sell singles And five packs. And Cuban cigars, and even five packs, and so my advice would be, that's just so few and far between, and even if you can find it, it's going to be a limited selection.
You're not going to get access to everything. Find friends that also want to [01:27:00] try cigars and buy a box and split it up. That's the easiest way because all of the websites we've named, they all have boxes and that's going to be the quickest way that you can get. What you want and try something and not feel like you have to make a significant investment by splitting that up.
**Gizmo:** And also, if you're not fortunate to have a group of friends, like we've been so lucky to have here, obviously we started smoking cigars, exactly what Senator said, Cuban cigars. We were buying stuff and splitting it up. That's what we, and we still do that. The other thing to Poobah's point is go to the website, look at the ratings archive, align yourself with a pallet or two of ours.
We put each individual rating. Up there for each of us for each cigar. So find whose palette you kind of align with as you've smoked new world cigars and maybe pick a Cuban cigar or two to kind of start with, look at the ratings and align with that and then, and then make your first purchases. That would be our recommendation, but yeah, it is hard to find singles and fivers out there, especially at a reasonable price.
Certainly price is a, definitely a factor.
**Pagoda:** And don't spend, uh, you know, 60 bucks on the cigar.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. [01:28:00] Don't buy the Particus alienus. All right. We had one more email I want to get to before our ratings tonight here, boys. It says, hello, lizards. I, for the life of me, cannot retrohale on purpose.
**Bam Bam:** Oh boy. On purpose.
**Gizmo:** Here we go. Boy, Kvalt. I've, I've noticed when I'm smoking some short smokes, I inhale some smoke through my nose from the foot. This does enhance some of the notes I get from the cigar that I would normally get. Is this the same notes you guys are talking about from a retrohale?
**Pagoda:** Well, we should ask Barron.
Thanks for
**Gizmo:** your input. Well, he's good with
**Pagoda:** footnotes.
**Bam Bam:** Correct. P. S.
**Gizmo:** P. S. I have to agree with you. The Arturo Fuente Eye of the Shark. Talk about a great new world. Oh, yeah. Was an amazing smoke, both in construction and taste. Lizard Senator. I'm sorry, Lizard Stewart. Okay. Lizard Stewart.
**Bam Bam:** There you go.
**Gizmo:** Nice.
Doesn't understand the retro. Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** I think the aroma on the foot By the way, I like that one.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, you like that? Sorry, Senator. I'll take that.
**Bam Bam:** [01:29:00] Oh, I'm just getting there.
**Gizmo:** Poobah, by the way, just pulled out a Don Carlos. I have the shark from Arturo Fuente. That's an outstanding, that'll be a nice followup to this dud.
**Bam Bam:** Correct. I think the aroma on the foot of the cigar is very important, right? I agree. It adds to the experience. The retro hail, I think just enhances it a little bit, uh, if you're comfortable doing it, but that you have to capture the aroma as along with your typical draw. I think it's important.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And you really have to just train yourself to be able to retrohale, you know, hold the smoke in your mouth and push it out through the three rows.
And that's all it is. Don't inhale it. Yeah. And you'll figure out how to retro health, right? You know, that's the easiest way to do it. But the, yeah, to answer your question, lizard Stewart, the smell at the foot at the burn line of the cigar is not, we're talking about with the retro hail. That's a third component of it.
First being the normal draw, very important, but first being the normal draw. Second being the retrohale and, and finally the smell at the, uh, at the burn [01:30:00] line is, are the three components of smoking your cigar and that's that boys. Any final thoughts here on the pairing before we move into our ratings tonight?
Boys.
**Bam Bam:** Well, we had a great drink tonight.
**Gizmo:** We had a great drink, a great drink. Thank you for that. All right, boys. Let's move into our. Formal liquor rating on the Weller 12 year age Kentucky Straight Bourbon. Bam Bam, you're up. I'm, I'm shocked
**Bam Bam:** at how smooth and delicious this was, Senator. It, honestly, I didn't know what we were drinking early on, because he didn't pull that bottle out until a few minutes after.
It was very cognac like for me. Smooth, a little buttery, but on the nose, a lot of vanilla, a lot of caramel. Putting price aside, I'm going to give this a 10 because I would pay the money for this experience over and over for even a special occasion or just having it at the house. A 10. All right.
**Gizmo:** Pagoda.[01:31:00]
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I think I'm going to turn a few heads over here, but I think I'm going to go for a 10 as well in terms of the overall flavor profile. And it's so easy to drink. I didn't feel any harshness at all. You know, it wasn't.
**Bam Bam:** But the nice thing about it, it's got just enough bite to kind of keep you interested and it perks you up.
But it's so, the delivery's very elegant. And
**Pagoda:** you know, uh, to what you said earlier, like, it didn't, like, when I was, uh, smelling it in the beginning, you know, trying to get, yeah, the aroma on the nose was, wasn't very strong or bourbon like at all. No. It was, it was just great. And I think, um, if I would recommend a bourbon, this would definitely be one.
Yeah.
**Senator:** Okay. Senator, I'm in exactly the same camp for me. It's a 10. It is one of the smoothest, most refined and complex bourbons I've ever had. I mean, even at a high price point on the gray market, like 200, it drinks like a 200 spirit. I think when Bam says, you know, [01:32:00] blind, he thought this could be a cognac.
This drinks like a 200 something dollar bottle of XO cognac. Yeah. No needed. Really enjoyable. The fact that some of us had this, you know, a week or so ago, and the first thing that popped into my mind of just like what would be a fitting premium spirit to really enjoy, uh, with Gizmo, I mean It's perfect.
This is it. I would pay it again. I've never had this before until tonight. You weren't with us when we had this with Lizard Henry. Oh, so it's just me and Pagoda. Wow. I've never had this before. Wow. It's spectacular. I think anyone that loves bourbon, you'd be hard pressed not to enjoy this. It's a home run, man.
And
**Pagoda:** Senator, this is the one where I, you know, took a refill even after the hangover from the previous one. You remember that? I was like, yeah, this was, it just tastes delicious. Really? You?
Now, I'll find out about what it does to me tomorrow morning. But, you know, up until then, it's great. Thank you.
**Gizmo:** So I'm also at a 10. I think this is one of the best bourbons I've ever had. I think it's certainly the best bourbon we've ever [01:33:00] had on the podcast. Um, I think it might be one of the best whiskeys we've ever had on the podcast, including single malts, including Irish whiskey.
Overall, from the point of
**Bam Bam:** view of a spirit, it's probably one of the best spirits I've ever had personally.
**Gizmo:** Unbelievable. I'm. Shocked at how good it was. I'm disappointed that the cigar did not live up to the spirit tonight. I just think it was perfect in all ways. And the fact that we had it neat is another testament to its merit.
Pairing with a Cuban cigar tonight, even for how mild the cigar was. It performed beautifully. It's a 10 all day for me. So I'm very, very happy with that.
**Poobah:** Poobah. Yeah, it's um, I'm smelling it. It's it's vanilla. Yeah, it's cinnamon. It's creme brulee ish. Uh, it's brown sugar ish. It's but it also has kind of a dry finish, which balances it.
So it's balanced and it's delivery. It's a it's a 10. In [01:34:00] pagodas lingo, it's a 10, it's a 10, it's a 10, it's a 10 and no, there's, there's no doubt about it. There's a viscosity to it. Um, I think that's, that's why some in the room are saying, Oh my God, it almost feels like a, like a Cognac because Cognac has a viscosity to it.
Right. This is delivering a complexity of flavor. Um, but it's not. It's not muddled in any way. It's very distinct. It's, it's vanilla. It's cinnamon. It's brown sugar with a dry finish. What a great spirit. I give it a 10 all day. It's worth 200 bucks all day long. I love it. Oh yeah. And, and, and it's
**Senator:** just fantastic.
Huba, by the way, I think nailed the tasting notes. Oh yeah. Every single note you called out, I, I think is really prominent here. And Gizmo's
**Bam Bam:** got the calculator out. What is it?
**Pagoda:** It's a, uh,
**Gizmo:** hold on. Let me do the math again. In Spanish, please.[01:35:00]
The former liquor rating boys on the Weller, 12 year age, Kentucky straight bourbon is a 10. 0. 10 all day!
**Pagoda:** Whoa. And it's well deserved. And you know, no better, thank you, Senator, for, uh, you know, obviously, Uh, and thank you, uh, Henry and Henry, you know, to come up with this idea, you know, in, uh, you know, in memory of your mom, to your mom.
10. 0. Wow.
**Gizmo:** Absolutely. Unbelievable. Thank you. 10. 0 bourbon. God bless my mom. This was Unbelievable. What a what? A what A bourbon tonight. So let's talk about the other two Weller bourbons we've done on the pod. This is the third one. Now on episode 111, we did the Kentucky Straight Bourbon, the straight up Special reserve Weller, the normal issue, got a 9.8.
So this edge that out even at that price point. And on episode 128, the Weller Antique 1 0 7 Bourbon got an 8.5. So they're [01:36:00] all scoring very, very well. Homeboy, they're doing something right. Absolutely. Was
**Poobah:** that particular bourbon that's a little higher
**Gizmo:** proof? It's hotter, yeah. Much higher. Much hotter. Yeah.
Definitely didn't work as well with the cigars, I think, the Special Reserve and
**Poobah:** the
**Gizmo:** 12 did tonight. The
**Poobah:** more sophisticated bourbon drinker or more in the vortex, right, is probably appreciating that more. Definitely.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, it's time to do the formal lizard rating now on the Partagus Aliatos from Cuba.
Rooster you're up.
**Rooster:** I mean, I was very excited to smoke the cigar, you know, when we heard like we were going to do the cigar. Um, the score is kind of based upon the box. It's a beautiful box. The presentation. Yeah, the presentation of the box. I mean, the cigar is beautiful. The wrapper is beautiful. The construction.
Was great. How did the box smoke ? He said the score is based on the box. Pay 1200 bucks. It's a big guy. The box, big box guy. I would buy
**Poobah:** the box for a hundred bucks. It's one of the better Zs of all time. . Keep it going, I think. And how,
**Rooster:** how [01:37:00] easy. How easy the band came off of this. That's true too. So maybe it was a Hibana's is really doing something.
No, no, no. I didn't get that. I didn't get that either. So, um, I mean, the construction was great, but unfortunately this cigar did not really deliver really anything for us. I mean, it, it was really flat even towards the end. It didn't really pick up. I mean, it was very difficult to pick out the notes from the cigar.
So unfortunately I'm going to give it a six.
**Poobah:** Poobah, this was underwhelming, flat muddled flavor. Um, like I said, I know I've said it multiple times blind. I wouldn't be able to pick this out. As a part of this with a gun to my head by Isis. Okay. So like, like, like
**Gizmo:** an Isis gun is different from any other. [01:38:00] Yeah.
Like, like Isis
**Poobah:** is saying like, like, what, what is this? Or I'm going to kill you, you know, like, like, like I'm, there's no way in it, it had in my view, no part of this DNA, um, in it that, that stood out to me, not only that. you know, moreover, it, it, it, it, it didn't, it lacked, um, it lacked character in almost.
Every way. The, the, the redeeming qualities of it wa was the build was spectacular, construction was, was spectacular, and the burn was spectacular. But outside of that, the taste was so un underwhelming that, and so flat that, uh, it's a six. I'm, I'm with Rooster. It's a six all day.
**Bam Bam:** Unbelievable.
**Pagoda:** All day six could be considered generous, but six, [01:39:00] yeah, I mean, maybe the box, uh,
**Poobah:** I'm indexing for the box.
I mean, boxes
**Rooster:** of 10,
**Poobah:** the boxes, the 12, um, but the cigar is a six. I mean, you know, the building construction saved it, or I would have given it a five, great
**Pagoda:** smoke
**Poobah:** out, but for sure,
**Gizmo:** to me, this cigar is a five. And the reason why I'm giving it a five is for 60 to take an hour and 40 some odd minutes of our day and deliver what it did.
I don't care if it's mild, if it's medium, if it's full, it was weak from the start. It was muddled. It was confusing. It was in the first third into the second third, which you'd hope for a transition, there was none into the last third. There was no transition. It was just instead of picking up as rooster said, it only heated up.
It was just a matter of physics with fire that I was getting more heat. Which isn't a flavor note. It [01:40:00] was just dull from start to finish.
**Bam Bam:** I think Gizmo's on fire
**Gizmo:** tonight. And at, at 60 bucks, I mean, it's, it's an absolute sin for this cigar to perform like that. It's a
**Senator:** goddamn outrage. It is. In 20 years, we're going to be saying, this is such a discount.
I know. Only 60 for a given cigar. You're right, you're right. We are going to be, we're going to
**Gizmo:** be pulling this up. Which is also an
**Senator:** outrage.
**Poobah:** I, I,
**Gizmo:** I am very, very disappointed in this. And what's unfortunate is very much similar to some of the other young Cuban cigars we smoked recently. We, we named them.
The La Gloria Cubana Turquinos, the Rafael Gonzalez Corona Stallones, some of the others. For the, we also didn't taste youth tonight. I didn't get a lot of youth. So this is just a bad blend. It's just totally out of line with Partagas. It doesn't make a lot of sense and the cigar wasn't that great. So I'm at a five.
I'm very, very disappointed with the cigar and it's very unfortunate for the presentation of the box, you know, as we talked about a few times, but so it's a five. Senator.
**Senator:** [01:41:00] This breaks my heart as obviously the resident Partagas lover of the group, and I now have to retract a statement that has held for two and a half years on this podcast.
I've said many times, every Partagas I think we've reviewed has scored pretty well. It has. And I've said repeatedly, Partagas can do no wrong, and this is the first time that they've completely gotten this cigar wrong. They missed the mark. I agree a hundred percent with all the commentary before there's no part of his DNA here.
It's completely unrecognizable. It's not complex. It's not interesting. I think even for a mild cigar smoker, this would be boring. And that's saying a lot. Um, I think Poobah nailed the redeeming qualities. The construction is excellent. Obviously the box is stunning. Um, but the cigar itself just disappoints.
So I'm going to give it a six. And the reason for me, it's a six, there was nothing outright offensive to me at any point during this cigar. And [01:42:00] so for me, the cigars that I'm going to rate a five, a four, even lower than that, something is Outright offending me all the way through as I'm smoking it, or even the majority of the way, and I never got that, thankfully, but it's pathetic that at 60, that that's about all I can say about this cigar, that nothing offended me, yet nothing would ever, you know, lead me to want to smoke this again, in fact, if someone handed me one of these for free, I wouldn't smoke another one again, that says it all.
By the
**Gizmo:** way, Talk about offense. What offended me about this cigar was the price was the price. Sure. I totally agree with the presentation Setting us up for absolute failure tonight,
**Poobah:** correct?
**Gizmo:** This cigar does not deserve to be in that
**Poobah:** it scores the same regardless of the price.
**Gizmo:** I believe I agree with that I agree.
Yeah
**Pagoda:** Yeah, it's a five for me, uh, and I think even five may be generous because if this had a New World band on it, we would have rated it even lower, I would think, you know, leaving the presentation aside, I [01:43:00] think, obviously, in terms of flavor, for me, it was already way too mild. Uh, you know, there was a little bit of pleasantness in the beginning, you know, when you started, and that was it, and it just did not deliver at all.
Um, considering the price point, I think that was very offensive to me throughout. While I smoke, I was like, Oh my lord, this is sexy. I would never buy this. Uh, it's a five.
**Bam Bam:** Okay, Bam Bam. Yeah, I don't think I could ever give this cigar a four or a five. I think it did, look, it was an elegant cigar. The smoke was velvety and creamy.
The performance was fantastic. Construction was perfect. I, I think if I disagree with the five, I will go with the six because of, of the way it performed. Other than that, If you're going to have that part of this band, you've got to deliver that DNA, like you mentioned earlier, just didn't get it.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, but considering the expectations, right, with the presentation.
Oh, the expectations were off the charts. We were so excited for the cigar. It's
**Poobah:** an EKG [01:44:00] flatline bed, bro. Absolutely, correct. It's true. We've lost a patient. Jesus. But it's so bad. Code! Code! Code, the patient's coding. I mean,
**Bam Bam:** it's flat. It is. But with all of that said a five is a little tough.
**Poobah:** No five is five would be tough because the, because the building construction and the combustion was good.
I'll say this also, I understand the
**Senator:** five and like the price is egregious, understandable. Totally understandable. I totally get it. How? Oh, yeah,
**Poobah:** yeah, yeah. I totally get it too. Yeah. I could have given it a five. I I, the only reason why I gave it a six was because it was built, it, it, it was built, right. Yeah.
It was, you know, um, the construction was good and the burn was good. The experience itself was nice. So if that, if that didn't, if that was terrible, I would've dropped it to a five . Sure. But that part of it wasn't, it was really the flavor, which was just an, an abomination.
**Gizmo:** So boys, the formal lizard rating, unfortunately on the Partagas Aliados tonight is a 5.
[01:45:00] 7, which by far and away is the weakest Partagas we've ever done on the podcast. And we've done quite a few, so let's go through them. On episode one, we talked about the Maduro. One we did was an 8. 7 on New Year's Eve 2021, which is crazy to even say. We did the Partagas series, D number four from the Alphabet series, got a 9.
2 on episode 14, one of the most surprising cigars ever. That episode always sticks in my mind. The legendary episode of the Calabras. Correct. That cigar got a 9. 3. That was a shocker. It was delicious. That was great. On episode 16, we did the Partagas short. Stunned us with an 8. 0. That was a little weak.
That performance. We should revisit that at some point on episode 36, the part of his series P number two and 8. 7 on episode 56, part of his Lusitania's with Rob Isla from FOH got an 8. 0 that it, that didn't perform very well. No. On [01:46:00] episode 64, we did the part of his Corona scored us on a hot house, the limited edition.
9. 7. That's the best part. I guess we ever did on the pod episode 82. We did the part of a series E number two, 9. 3. And finally on episode one 13, we did the part of this eight, nine, eight, which scored a 9. 0. So tonight at a 5. 7. It is, by 23 points, it is the worst Partagas
**Bam Bam:** we've ever done. Shocking how low the score is for a Partagas.
You know
**Pagoda:** what I'm really surprised at? For the amount we love Partagas. Partagas. Partagas. Um, you know. Whatever it is. Garcon, cut this guy off. No, you know what it is? Way to get into it, Pagoda. Let it team. The highest score is 9. 2? The highest score for Apothecary is 9. 7, he's cut off. Correct. I think I'm going to get a high globa.
**Poobah:** He's in the weeds, man. [01:47:00] We're past 10. 30, he's gone.
**Gizmo:** That's tomorrow, that's it for Pagoda Today. Oh my gosh. Well, that was disappointing boys. I have to say thank you again for the awesome surprise of the 12 year age Weller That was an unbelievable spirit. Obviously a wonderful gesture from you guys. Thank you so much for that I really appreciate you all and I appreciate you doing that for me tonight And of course the spirit scoring a ten point zero, which is I think close to unprecedented on this podcast.
I mean, when we do our year end review, that's going to be one of the highlights of our year end this year. Is that the first bourbon
**Pagoda:** that's got a 10? Yes. Yeah.
**Poobah:** Definitely the first bourbon. The irony in the, in the irony in the whole thing is that it's so weird is that. This well, or 12 year tastes [01:48:00] more like a parus.
than a cigar. Than the cigar. It's
**Pagoda:** true.
**Poobah:** Can you ima, is that what the weirdest thing it True. The D? The D
**Pagoda:** four DDNA.
**Poobah:** It's a D four in a glass. It is. It is. It really is. It's weird.
**Gizmo:** Unbelievable. Well guys, thank you again. A great night tonight, despite the score on the Aliados tonight, the Weller 12 year age Kentucky straight bourbon scored a 10.
0 and the part the gas Aliados from Cuba scored a 5. 7. So thank you so much, uh, to our listeners for shooting us those emails. We really appreciate it. Thanks of course, to Fabrica5 for supporting the podcast and we'll see everybody next week. Keep smoking. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us.
You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, lounge lizards pod. com. That's lounge lizards, P O D dot com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If [01:49:00] you have any comments, questions, if you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking.
Email us. Hello at lounge lizards, pod. com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.