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Becoming an entrepreneur takes grit.
Deciding to do it solo takes courage.
This is 1,000 Routes, the podcast where we explore the stories of solopreneurs who have made the bet on themselves to build a business that serves their life. Every episode you'll hear about the lessons they've learned and the uncommon routes they've taken to stand out in a world that is purposefully trying to commoditize them.
Brendan Hufford [00:00:00]:
I love this stuff. This is so fun for me. Doesn't mean it's not really hard, but, like, when I hear athletes talk about, like, it's about love of the game, that's how I feel about it.
Nick Bennett [00:00:18]:
Hey, it's Nick, and welcome to 1000 Routes, the podcast where I explore the stories of solopreneurs who have made the bet on themselves to build a business. That serves their life. Every episode, you'll hear all about the lessons they've learned and the uncommon routes they've taken to stand out in a world that is purposefully trying to commoditize them.
Brendan Hufford [00:00:42]:
My name is Brendan Hufford. I help SaaS companies scale from ten to 100 million in revenue through content.
Nick Bennett [00:00:48]:
Wow, you're the first person who's ever answered that one in one take.
Brendan Hufford [00:00:52]:
I was a teacher for ten years. So, like, I have a really hard, like, filter that everything. You'd be surprised because I say wild shit, but, like, it's a hard filter that it passes through where it's like, no, nope. Like, my brain cancels most of the.
Nick Bennett [00:01:04]:
Stuff I say, dude. So I have a theory on this one. And I think that that filter is the difference between success that people. Some people do and don't ever achieve. Like, people told me my whole life that that filter is clogged for me. And I. My mouth used to get me in trouble all the time. Like, I used to end up in the principal's office because I'd say stupid things.
Nick Bennett [00:01:26]:
But I'm convinced now that people pay people like us to tell them what you think.
Brendan Hufford [00:01:33]:
I asked my buddy Mark. We were coming home and he was on my flight back to Chicago, and he was like, I don't know how to tell you this, Brendon, but important people trust you for answers to important things.
Nick Bennett [00:01:45]:
And you were like, why?
Brendan Hufford [00:01:47]:
Yeah, like, I got in trouble. I almost got suspended in high school, and I got kicked out of french class, like, once a week for fucking laughing too loud.
Nick Bennett [00:01:54]:
The only difference between you and me is that it was Latin. It wasn't french. It was latin class. Let's unpack that a bit. Dude, you've been doing Growth Sprints for a few years now. You've talked about your story going from teacher, the burnout you've experienced. Kind of just like the toll it took on your life to exit that, join a marketing agency, active campaign. Like that story.
Nick Bennett [00:02:14]:
You've told that story a lot. What I'm more interested in hearing about is what I would call the rise of Growth Sprints. The fact that you can show up to a conference, and then there's a line of people wanting to talk to you to gas you up. This isn't what this is about, but, like, this is also, like we were just talking about. It's just, like, a reality of things. Like, people want to hear what you have to think about stuff, and that's, like, a place that most solopreneurs want to be, whether they're big on LinkedIn or whatever. Like, their thing of choice is we all get paid for what we like to think stuff and to tell people what we think. And hitting, like, being able to achieve that is highly desirable.
Nick Bennett [00:02:50]:
So, like, let's just talk about what do you think contributed to that?
Brendan Hufford [00:02:56]:
I have done a lot of reflection. I'm also very lucky. I don't know how to explain this to people, but my brain, if you've ever seen inside out, the memories go back in, and then they go to processing, and they get organized, and they get rid of the bad ones and stuff. My brain does a really wonderful job where I don't have to do this super intentionally of connecting things. My friend Eddie from very good copy, who I absolutely adore, the whole first part of his book, the very good copy book, is just about, like, good copywriting is about good connections, and to have good connections, you have to have enough points to connect it to, which means you need more varied experiences. My brain connects things really well. There's this idea, and here's this idea, and here's this idea, and they're. They're often good and worth pursuing.
Brendan Hufford [00:03:39]:
To be fair, like, you talked about my backstory. Like, it drove me crazy. The whole time I was teaching that, I was having all these ideas and just could not do them. It was awful. But it's a nature thing, and it's also a nurture thing. Like, I moved every two years growing up. Like, I'm really good at making fast friends, and it has thus made me into being a raging extrovert sometimes, which is also insufferable if you have to spend long periods of time with me. But I think that's the core of it.
Brendan Hufford [00:04:08]:
I don't mean to make this whole thing about being at a conference, but when I was there, I wasn't asked to speak. I went as an attendee. I'm never asked to speak. That is not a thing that happens a lot in my career, nor do I. Am I sure I want it to. But, like, I'm not at that level, you know, of, like, oh, I speak on all these stages and stuff. Like, somebody like Ross Simmons or whoever, that are just wonderful and have perfected that craft, or rand fishkin. Like, they're amazing.
Brendan Hufford [00:04:34]:
But while I was sitting in the audience, like, four people, like, mentioned me in their talks, or, like, I was in the front row and just, like, participating. And, like, my friend Amrita was on a panel, and she. She was like, oh, Brendan's my therapist. And she just, like, gestures over to me, and I'm like, this is so surreal. These are just friends. It's the same skill set. I just really want to make friends with them. And I like meaningful conversations.
Brendan Hufford [00:04:58]:
I don't do shallow surface level. I mean, you can tell even, like, this interaction right now, I'm like, Nick, how's your relationship with your father? Like, I want to get into that stuff, and immediately, again, insufferable in the wrong context, but, like, that's kind of. I don't. I think that's. And now all of. All these people I made friends with two, three, five years ago, like, we're all coming up together, and I'm seeing this kind of happen, and it's very surreal. Like, it's wonderful for everybody.
Nick Bennett [00:05:26]:
What you're talking about is the fact that you spend a lot of time building relationships with people and maintaining those relationships with people. And what people don't probably see about the thing that you do is all of that.
Brendan Hufford [00:05:41]:
Yeah, they see me as being a LinkedIn loudmouth. And, like, they're just like, look at.
Nick Bennett [00:05:45]:
This guy on LinkedIn talking shit. Which, like, hey, cool. Like, definitely talk shit on LinkedIn. That's fun.
Brendan Hufford [00:05:51]:
Isn't that what's for?
Nick Bennett [00:05:52]:
Without a doubt. But, like, the part where they're like, how do I get my own business there? Then I think about this. Like, I've only been at this for just a little over a year. And one of the things that's become blaringly obvious to me was that I did not invest enough in my network before going into this. Now, me going into it wasn't exactly, like, my first choice. Like, I got laid off and ended up here somehow. Like, it was just more effective of a route for me than going back to work or whatever, trying to find a job and convince someone I can do work for them. So doing this made more sense.
Nick Bennett [00:06:27]:
But when I wasn't planning on it, I was like, oh, my network is largely like your work friends. My work universe was really small, and then all of a sudden, you go out into the real world, and you're like, oh, I need. Like, I thought I was in the real world when you have a job, when you work for somebody else and you just kind of doing your thing, and then you go out into the real, real world and you're like, oh, like, I don't know anybody. I know a few people. And you talk to those people and you slowly get introduced to more people and into more people, and you slowly build that and maintain those relationships. And it's finally starting to, like, compound and pay off because I've known people long enough where I can be a good friend, where it's like, oh, hey, like, this thing came up and I thought of you and I want to introduce this person or whatever the thing is. And so, like, you're way ahead of the curve compared to the mass migration that just took place. So, like, as much as we're talking about gas, like, all of these wonderful things like this is because you met a bunch of people and you've built relationships with people over the course of years versus the tons of people who have recently gone sold in the last six months to a year, including myself.
Nick Bennett [00:07:36]:
And they're like, hmm, acquiring clients is hard.
Brendan Hufford [00:07:41]:
You can't find this book anywhere because I don't know what happened to Sean McCabe, but he deleted everything off the Internet. And he was one of the most influential people in my whole life. Like, he just disappeared completely. But he wrote this book called Overlap, and it was literally just about like, how first the idea of, like, your thing overlaps with the next thing, which overlaps with the next thing, like, contextually, but also how to do that. And that's how I've done everything. Like, everything I do, the next thing I do is going to overlap with this thing. I can see it looking backwards. There's like a Steve Jobs quote about, like, how you can only see these things looking backwards.
Brendan Hufford [00:08:14]:
You can only connect the dots that way. I think that's super true. Like, the dream was this, but I had no idea I was going to get there. I just knew directionally keep making friends, and I was very lucky that I liked that. That's not natural for everybody. They feel really uncomfortable or they have a lot of imposter syndrome. So do I. I equally feel like 100% imposter.
Brendan Hufford [00:08:33]:
I'm lying to everybody here. I can't do anything, and I'm the worst and I'm better than everybody else.
Nick Bennett [00:08:39]:
Why do you feel like you're the imposter?
Brendan Hufford [00:08:43]:
So I think it's a lot of, like, growing up the way that I grew up, like, I didn't have a lot and things like, that, and I also just had, like, a lot of, like, childhood stuff of, like, getting made fun. You know, you're a new kid, you moved to different schools. Like, I'm good at making fast friends, but, like, you also get a rough amount of getting picked on and bullied and all of that sort of stuff. I think that's part of it. And I think it's also just like, having done what I did for so long, like, I'm just. It's just still surprising. And I don't know that that goes away for anybody, you know, like, just, you hear about people like, that are really good speakers. Like I mentioned earlier, they don't not get nervous, they just navigate it.
Brendan Hufford [00:09:21]:
They just know, like, oh, I'm going to get the adrenaline dump and I'm going to. My voice is going to sound like it's up here for the first five minutes and then it's going to settle and I'm good. And they just. That settling process happens faster and faster and faster over time. I think even though, like, some people might have a feeling about where I am in my journey, like, I still feel like I'm very early this stuff. So even though I've been building all of these things, my experience for a long time was running a full time business and having a full time job. And only in the last two years have I been able to focus.
Nick Bennett [00:09:53]:
I don't think that feeling ever goes away. I interviewed Christopher Fox just recently, and he's been at it 17 years. And I'm pretty sure that feeling doesn't go away. I just interviewed Melanie Diesel recently and she's been at it for almost ten years. Like you said, this idea of overlap where it's kind of always looking around, trying to look around the bend and see what the next thing is. And it's like, figure this out. I think anyone who believes that they have it all figured out, you're just lying to yourself or you're lying to other people.
Brendan Hufford [00:10:25]:
I think when you have it all figured out, you're not growing anymore, you're not trying new stuff. Mel's written books. We're both friends with Jay O'Connzo. Jay's written books. I've never written a book. I think I have one in me. I think I have a lot of them in me. But, like, I'm gonna push into writing a book and that's going to make me feel like a total imposter again.
Brendan Hufford [00:10:42]:
I'm going to push into speaking. That's going to make me feel like an imposter. If you're not pushing and, like, taking on new challenges or, like, bigger client, like, whatever kind of work you do, you work with clients, you're taking on bigger clients, new engagements, trying other things. You get an asked for. You do great at what you do. And your clients are like, can you also do these 17 other more important things for us? And you're like, I think I can. That's where that imposter syndrome comes from, where you're just like, you know, are you doing what, what I do and what Mel and Jay talk about? About, like, creating ip? Like, that's scary. Like, I'm gonna own these words.
Brendan Hufford [00:11:15]:
When people think about these words, the mental availability. If you've ever read, like, byron Sharp's books, like, when they think about these words, they think of me. That's super scary, right? You know, these things work. Like, I'm a marketer, right? Like, you know, it works. But then when it actually works, I think there's a little part of us that are like, whoa, that's cool. You know, if we want to get really deep, like, there's just, like, a healthy distrust of, like, what we're thinking and feeling at any given time where you're keenly aware of, like, I feel scared or, like, I feel like I'm doing a great job. Like, there's that sort of piece too. Psychologically, I just move with, like, an irrational, uh, confidence around these things, which I think, like I said, is childhood based, but also just my personality.
Nick Bennett [00:12:01]:
Well, confidence is definitely key. Like, you gotta believe in yourself and whatever that sounds like. Like, you have to actually believe that you can do the thing. But I think the imposter syndrome comes from trying to swing way too far. And this is like, the running joke of, like, the 22 year old who's, like, the. The VC or, like, the CEO coach.
Brendan Hufford [00:12:25]:
Yeah, the 22 year old life coach. You're like, please tell me about your vast life experience.
Nick Bennett [00:12:29]:
I talked with someone who was just getting started, and they were like, I'm a cmo. Like, I'm a consultant for cmos of tech companies. And I was like, maybe not. And so, like, I think imposter syndrome comes from going too far down the road. Like, our mutual friend Andrew Kaplan always talks about helping, like, junior me, like, junior versions of himself. And I think that's, like, the way to think about or, like, how to eliminate the imposter syndrome. It's just like, you need to help the version of you two years ago. And if you're always thinking about, like, who needs you today? You two years ago.
Nick Bennett [00:13:02]:
You don't need someone who is a million miles down the road. They've probably lost sight of what you're dealing with today. A lot has probably changed since they went through what you went through today. So it's like someone who just went through that, this is the person you want. And I think we all tend to struggle with imposter syndrome when we're going way too far out of that world we're in. It's like. And you can gradually work your way up. Like you were saying.
Nick Bennett [00:13:25]:
It's like, oh, this client's a little bigger. They're asking me to do a little project that's a little bigger. They're asking me to do things I haven't done. But it's like you're slowly moving. It's not like one day you wake up and publicly traded company is asking for your help. Like, you got to get there.
Brendan Hufford [00:13:39]:
It takes time, right? And that's such a cliche thing. I kept my job way longer than I should have. I should have left six months, maybe even a year earlier. Maybe that's wrong, but I kept it way too long. And I wanted to stay long enough that when the inciting event, which I'm happy to talk about, when the inciting event happened, where I was like, I don't think I can do this anymore. It was laughable how fast my wife and I were able. Like, you know, we were just able to be like, fuck that. Like, I'm out.
Brendan Hufford [00:14:11]:
And I put in my two weeks. Short story long, I went on vacation. It caused a ton of turmoil at the company that I was at. And I remember looking at my wife in the car, and she said, and I'm not trying to cool guy anybody about money, but everybody's weird about money. You never, like, know how much people are making. It's fucking bizarre. But, like, the real conversation, I don't think I've ever talked about this. The real conversation my wife and I had is she looked at me and she's like, brendan, activecampaign pays you $95,000 a year.
Brendan Hufford [00:14:41]:
You're going to make $500,000 this year. And you're worried about the. That 500? You keep telling me, like, oh, maybe when I make another hundred thousand, I can quit. Because it started, like, equal, right? It was 95 and 95 or, you know, whatever. It just kind of kept going like this, and eventually it outpaced, and it was half of my income. Then it was two thirds, then it was three fourths. And at this point, it's like four fifths of the income. It's 80% of my income is outside my day job.
Brendan Hufford [00:15:10]:
And she's like, you're so stupid. Just quit. And it was all I needed. I just needed her on board. And the fact that she proposed it first was like, cool, we quit tomorrow, I'm out.
Nick Bennett [00:15:21]:
I have two kids. My wife is a full time mom. She works for the boys. I get that tension where you're like, it doesn't matter what the number is. You're just like, I need to provide for my family. That's just the paternal instinct. If there's more hours in the day and there's like, between nine and five, I will do the thing in order to make the money so that we can live the best possible life. Like, if I got hit by a bus tomorrow, would they have enough? Would they be okay? You're always thinking about those things.
Nick Bennett [00:15:49]:
And you have four kids, so it's multiplied from, like, I have two, and I feel this way. If I had four, I'd just be like, nobody talks to me.
Brendan Hufford [00:15:56]:
The thing I think about a lot is I will do what is required.
Nick Bennett [00:15:59]:
You say the number out loud, and I bet when you say that and you tell that story, you're like, that sounds insane.
Brendan Hufford [00:16:06]:
You know, as an assistant principal making fifty k a year, and now I'm talking about adding a zero to the end of that. Like, what? What is that about? That's wild. Never in a million years.
Nick Bennett [00:16:17]:
First of all, dude, like, that is a milestone that so many people, like, dream of achieving. So, like, it is not without hard work. Like, you did the thing.
Brendan Hufford [00:16:27]:
Oh, yeah. Like, I got up at 03:00 a.m. for like, five years. I had a morning routine. I read miracle morning. I didn't come up in digital, proper digital marketing like an adult. I came up in online marketing, which was a lot of, like, personal development stuff. And that's how I came up.
Brendan Hufford [00:16:43]:
So it was like my miracle morning, right? Which is actually a great book. I think more people should read it by Hal Elrode. And I was taking cold showers, and I was going to the gym at 03:00 a.m. and, like, most of the people who do it suck. But I talk about a lot, like, a tactics debate versus a quality debate. Like, just because most of the people who do this thing are douchey and suck, it doesn't mean the ideas are bad. It doesn't mean, like, gratitude and visualization and journaling and, like, ice baths is corny as they are, like, physical training, intense physical training, none of those things are bad for you. Like, you should probably do some of that stuff if, if you want to.
Brendan Hufford [00:17:16]:
And if you can't figure out how to escape a life you hate, like, try some of that shit. I don't know. But like, I just, those are the only hours I had. I was a teacher and like, I taught high school. So, like, if you're not on your shit, those kids will eat your lunch. So I couldn't, I wasn't fucking around during the day, Nick. There was also times where I, like, stayed up super late. Like my, I would be putting my kids to bed with a, this, this cup, like a face sized cup of coffee, putting my children to bed so I could stay up until 02:00 a.m.
Nick Bennett [00:17:42]:
But what were you doing during those hours that you feel like contributed to the growth?
Brendan Hufford [00:17:48]:
So instead of learning stuff, I have this, again, irrational thing where I just make the things that I want to see in the world like nobody was doing. Let's talk about assets I have now. So I have a newsletter, I have a slack community. But I was reading all of Lenny Riccisky's interviews about product and I was like, oh, these are really in depth. The subject lines were beautiful, how Miro builds product, how figma builds product, and it's just, he's asking the same questions every time, but it's stuff nobody talks about. Like, how do you build, you know, SaaS products behind the scenes? And I was like, well, everybody does these shitty marketing tear downs where they're like, oh, how canva grew? And it's like an SEO chart and like a picture of some of their ads. And I'm like, you can't be a billion dollar a year revenue company and think that it's just these two publicly available datasets. Like, that's dumb as shit.
Brendan Hufford [00:18:39]:
So I just started being like, let me talk to cmos and be like, what are your meetings look like? How many people are on your team? How do you structure them? How do they work together? I took Lenny Ricciski's questions about product and I asked them to marketing leaders. Cause like, I don't know, like, I just didn't know where to start. And I've since morphed those questions quite a bit. Like, there became a big question about hiring. Like, how do the top cmos attract and retain the top talent? Like, that's a thing cmos need to know that nobody talks about, right? Like, how do you build a talent pipeline where all the best people in the world want to work for you, and they're willing to work for you for less money, then they take somewhere else, neither here nor there. But, like, the newsletter happened because it didn't exist, Nick. I tried to find it. I tried to subscribe to it.
Brendan Hufford [00:19:16]:
It did not exist. So I made it. I tried to find a slack community for in house SaaS marketers. When I was in house at Activecampaign, it did not exist. I joined them. I joined all the paid ones. I joined all the free ones. They all fucking sucked.
Brendan Hufford [00:19:30]:
And I was like, I'm making my own. Like, this is specifically for in house software marketers. It is so specific. And I built this, like, cool little clubhouse, and there's a thousand people in there now, but really, it's, like, 40 of us that are just having a great time carrying most of the conversation, and it's a great resource for everybody else. But, like, it's our clubhouse. Wouldn't trade it for the world. But I make these things that I want to see in the world. You know, they just don't exist.
Nick Bennett [00:19:53]:
I like that missionary mindset. Like, people who see the opportunity, and they're like, we can make a million dollars. It's not nearly as compelling, and you're not nearly as motivated to make it not suck. Like, those things generally suck or peter out over time when they lose, when they fall out of favor. Whereas you're like, if I can make this clubhouse the thing that I wish I had when I was in house selling tech, people will want to be there.
Brendan Hufford [00:20:18]:
Yep. And I violently protect it. Like, I don't. You're not coming in there and pitching. It's not open to freelancers. It's not open to consultants. And I realize I am that now. I'm just not changing the mission of it.
Brendan Hufford [00:20:30]:
And the other thing that's cool is when you build things, like, they both lose money. Those things don't make any money. I don't have sponsors. I'd love it. If you want to sponsor my newsletter, let me know. I don't have sponsors. That's not how you see other people being like, oh, we made a million dollars this year, and you're 97% with sponsorships. And that's fine.
Brendan Hufford [00:20:51]:
Monetize however you want. I'm not better than you. But it's also cool on the other side. You can go another way and just make enough from clients and then build shit you want and let it lose 10, 20, 30 grand a year. Because who cares?
Nick Bennett [00:21:03]:
You talk about the mission behind building the community and why you started the newsletter. What about Growth Sprints as a service and as a thing? How'd you get to that productization? How'd you figure that out and realize, this is the thing I'm going to do as a thing. Not necessarily as a company, but, like, the way that you operate and the way that you help businesses grow. Cause that's the thing that I get asked a lot about, is, like, I don't have a system. I don't have my own growth sprint.
Brendan Hufford [00:21:32]:
Okay? So I got really lucky. I'm gonna tell a long story, so stick with me. It's very good. I came up in SEO, and I started following this guy on YouTube, and he would make these videos where he would be like, all right, let's get into it. And he would just. There was no, like, YouTube y intro. And I was like, this is amazing. And then he would be like, if you want to buy these google sheets that I'm showing you in here, you can pay for them.
Brendan Hufford [00:21:59]:
And my broke teacher ass was like, I don't have any money for those. So let me just pull it up on one tab and make my own sheet in the next tab. And I just built the things that he had. It was so hacky, right? Like, I got to the skillset by making things. I didn't, like, take a bunch of courses or anything. I was just like, I need to figure out how to send people emails. Let me learn email marketing. Oh, I know.
Brendan Hufford [00:22:22]:
I love podcasts. Let me make my own podcast. Like, that's where all of this has come from. I just made my own shit 25 times. So I remember getting an email. I signed up for some of his emails, and his name is Ryan Stewart. And I didn't have a. Then he sent out an email, and I now realize this is like a classic nurture sequence.
Brendan Hufford [00:22:42]:
Sent out a find. He's like, hey, is the last email I'm gonna send you about this? You know, you have obviously haven't bought, but if for whatever reason, money's the issue, we can stretch it out. It's a $1,000. We can stretch it out over a year. And when you're a teacher and I gotta, like, look at my wife and be like, God, are we gonna be able to swing $100 a month for this? Like, I think it's gonna make a difference. So I did it. I had the money. It wasn't some, like, wild, like, it was my last dollar.
Brendan Hufford [00:23:05]:
And then I couldn't feed my children, like, people hype up their stories like that stuff. And I'm like, that's reckless. That's not inspiring. You're dumb. Like I said, quitting the job and stuff. Like, I'm super risk averse. All these gaggle of goblins running around like, nope, sorry. I call my kids goblins all the time.
Nick Bennett [00:23:20]:
This, okay, my boy. I call them tiny little dictators. So I get it.
Brendan Hufford [00:23:24]:
I got in Ryan's ecosystem, and I did. I have this thing where I will take what you teach, I will go do the thing, and then I will tell you that I did it. I know that sounds really simple, but if you want to get on anybody's radar ever, no matter how big they are. Hey, famous author, I read your book. I did everything you said. Here's how it transformed my life. All of a sudden, you're like, they're like, can I get a quote from my homepage? Do you want to hop on a Zoom call? Like, all of a sudden they're your number one fan? Because you did. Nick, you already know this.
Brendan Hufford [00:24:02]:
You put out so much education, you teach so many things, and then nobody does anything with it. So if somebody actually goes and does the thing, you're like, you get unlimited attention from me. I'm your number one fan now. It worked out for me so much. So I went to a conference Ryan was speaking at. Not just because of that, but like, I was part of this SEO community. Went to a conference afterwards, walked up to him really awkwardly. I told him basically what I just told you, that story of, like, I bought it.
Brendan Hufford [00:24:28]:
Here's how it changed my life. I now work at an agency. I quit my teaching job. I was making forty k a year. I make 75 grand now. Totally changed my life. And I said, when I went into the interview with the agency, they were like, hey, how are you going to help us with SEO? And I just spun my laptop around, and I said, ryan, I showed him your sheets, and I was like, this is how I run it. Do you want me to come do it here? And I got an offer the next day, and he was like, wow.
Brendan Hufford [00:24:51]:
And then that turned into, hey, do you want to be a member of my community? Do you want to lead my community? Hey, do you want to be my number two guy in this community of agencies? And, like, all of this sort of stuff came really, really slow over five years. Organically, I get to write for Ryan Holiday, if anybody's familiar with him. I wrote an article about stoicism for him because I was like, here's the thing. I just cold emailed him, hey, I read this here's how it transformed my life. Here's the story. And he's like, would you write about that for my blog? And I'm like, I have an article on dailystoic.com dot. It's wild, all of those things. I can give you 50 stories of this, but I've been doing this forever.
Brendan Hufford [00:25:29]:
It is just how I work. I got into his ecosystem. The thing we taught, I decided, and he's cautioned me, he's like, nobody's going to believe you because you work here. And I'm like, well, my website has to be the exact way we teach people to make their websites. My marketing, my positioning, everything. And he was big on messaging and positioning productization and all of this stuff. And I learned it by doing it for myself, seeing big results and teaching it to hundreds of other agency people for, like, three or four years. That's where those pieces came from.
Brendan Hufford [00:26:03]:
I can walk through, like, why I run things the way I specifically do, but that's where the pieces of Growth Sprints came from. And I've also been running Growth Sprints on the side since 2021 or something. You know, not long after I left the agency is that when I was in house, it didn't conflict anymore. So as soon as I left an agency, I could start my own consulting a little bit more. But I think, like, that's where, like, the bones came from.
Nick Bennett [00:26:25]:
What you're saying about doing a thing and then telling them about it is a huge eye opener for me because I didn't realize I was doing, and I did what you did. When I first got started, I reached out to Christopher Lockhead, and he's written a bunch of books, done a bunch of stuff. When I was getting started, it's like reading all his work. And I closed my first client, and I sent him a loom video and a LinkedIn DM, and I was like, hey, your work helped me get this first client. Like, I just want to say thank you changed my life. You earn your first dollar selling consulting services, and you're like, your brain is rewired.
Brendan Hufford [00:27:06]:
I remember I got my first, like, affiliate dollar from, like, sending out an email. And I was just. My wife. I told my. Came in the other room, I'm like, liz, we just made dollar 75. She's like, from what? And I was like, that shit I've been working on in the spare bedroom, dude. Like, isn't that wild? And again, like, teacher, no money, $0.
Nick Bennett [00:27:24]:
Do it again. Like, 150,000 more times.
Brendan Hufford [00:27:28]:
Yeah. And it was just like, stuff like that. Just like, kept happening and like, yeah, dude, you always remember that. I remember the first jujitsu gi that I sold, all of that stuff. How did Chris respond?
Nick Bennett [00:27:38]:
He was like, exactly what you described. He was like, thank you so much for sharing this with me. He was so warmed by the fact that it made it, like, his work made a difference.
Brendan Hufford [00:27:50]:
I mean, that's his oxygen, right? Like, you just fueled probably another six months of him being like, I can.
Nick Bennett [00:27:54]:
Do this, and he's doing his thing. And I think one of the things that is changing, and as you're saying this, I've been thinking about this for a while.
Brendan Hufford [00:28:03]:
It's like access to these people.
Nick Bennett [00:28:05]:
You just have to go to a conference and be like, hey, so, you know, like, I did the thing and I, like, started, and here's what I did with it. It's like, I can send someone a loom video on a LinkedIn DM now and get access to them. And it's like, there are some people who don't respond, then there's people who do. And it's like, you start building that relationship with them, and all of these little things add up. This is that compound relationship stuff that makes a huge difference because now I'm part of their courses and their academy, and, like, they quoted me in one of their books, and so exactly what you're talking about. That's the stuff that really adds up. And I don't think we take enough merit in terms of what it means to do that to build your business.
Brendan Hufford [00:28:50]:
I think you can call, if you wanted to put a pin in it, you call a poster boy strategy, poster girl strategy. You want to be that person that's on the front page of their website, their number one testimonial, and all of a sudden you're on six websites as their number one testimonial, and every bit of traffic they get, they see you. That feels like the incentives are wrong because it's like the background is you had to do a ton of work and you did transform your life already, so you don't really need, you know, being on the front of the website anymore. But it is cool. Like, it is a great way to think about things. And if that fuels you to make a transformation in your life of, like, I'm going to get on this person's radar by doing the great things that they're teaching. Like, great. You get double outcomes, you know?
Nick Bennett [00:29:32]:
Yeah, well, I didn't even consider the downstream things of it. It was just like, oh, wait a second. Like, I was just really thankful. I was like, I closed my first client, and now, like, I left a comment on one of Jaya Kunzos posts right after I joined the creator kitchen. And I was like, new lens on my work. Been here for 48 hours, and the amount of people who reach out to me and be like, hey, I saw you on the creator Kitchen website and I looked into your work, like, and I'm interested in, like, what you do. I just was really appreciative that the creator kitchen exists. And I just left a comment on a LinkedIn post Jay had, and I was like, hey, I enjoy enjoying the creator gadget.
Nick Bennett [00:30:11]:
All of those little things. Like, hey, when I do stuff with the things that you're. You're doing, you become their biggest fan. I love that idea. All right, I want to look back a little bit on all these years. What's something you would have done differently?
Brendan Hufford [00:30:25]:
There's always the answer of, like, it got me here, so I wouldn't change that, right? I couldn't have learned these lessons. This couldn't have happened. I think there's a truth to that of, like, I needed all of this. What I would have changed, though, is I have people look at, like, a prolific amount of output from you, or they look at, like, a prolific amount of success or whatever they want to call it in their own heads. And what they don't see is that, like, the stuff we're digging into today and what a lot of people don't see because I don't make it a part of my marketing. I'm not, like, trying to trauma market here or get pity from anybody, but, like, I've put myself in the hospital twice from stress, and I still have catastrophic after effects of the stress that, like, the body truly does keep the score of this stuff. I understood that that is the thing that could happen. And you don't realize until it happens to you, until you're 35 and you get a blood clot in your leg.
Brendan Hufford [00:31:23]:
And the ER is like, we're glad you're here. Right? Like, that was part of the inciting event that got me to leave in house, where I was just like, this is an untenable amount of stress. When I left an agency that I was at, I was put under so much toxic stress, and I was navigating it in the pandemic with a pregnant spouse and three kids at the time, like I said, now we have four doing all of that, and all the kids are home all the time. And it is the worst professional environment I've ever been in. I had a three day long migraine. I've never had that before, but I couldn't see. I was just. I couldn't function.
Brendan Hufford [00:31:59]:
And when I came out of it, my eyes stopped working. You know how you blink between your eyes and it looks different because they're in two different places, but, like, your brain puts them together? It's like, it's one picture. My brain stopped. It's like two pictures now all the time. Double vision, impossible to read. I just had to, like, close my eye all the time or, like, do one of these guys. And even now when I look to the side, one of my eyes, like, looks straight up. Like it's just detached.
Brendan Hufford [00:32:23]:
It goes the wrong way. It's that sort of stuff. Like, I still have those things, right? Like, for me, this hasn't been without a cost. And it's usually me needing to have a health impact to know that it's time to move to the next thing. And every single time, I've always been building the next thing already. I've just not moved fast enough. You know, the pain of staying the same wasn't greater than the pain of changing, as my friend Lachey would say. So I think that's, like, the biggest thing that I would do over is.
Brendan Hufford [00:32:57]:
But I don't know that I could know that without having had those things. Obviously, I didn't because I still did it twice, but I would change that. Like, if I just got, like, a fresh do over, I'd have, like, way less massive health impact.
Nick Bennett [00:33:09]:
Dude, the fact that you put yourself through this is crazy. Most people would have just given up and been like, my head's starting to hurt. Like, maybe I should just get a different job or something. Like, why is this so meaningful to you?
Brendan Hufford [00:33:24]:
Probably a bit of sunk cost, right? Like, I've been working on this for a very long time, and I've put out a heroic amount of work and work into this. I use the word privilege very intentionally. Like, I am both born with a tremendous amount of privilege. If we're honest, I am playing, right? Like, I'm a straight dude in the midwest that, you know, had a good enough childhood and a great education. And, you know, it's 2024. Like, if there was a video game setting, that was easier than easy. Like, I'm playing the game on that because I just fucking hate it when white dudes are like, dude, look at how hard I worked. And then, you know, like, I talked to my friend Taz and, like, her experience is very different than mine or my friend Lachey.
Brendan Hufford [00:34:05]:
Like, her experience is very different than mine. Like let's acknowledge that I have a lot of inherent privilege, but it is also, I use the word privilege to describe like doing this kind of work. Like, I really love it and I've always known that this is worth it. Similar to my wife and I having kids. Like we struggled for a long time to have kids. We went through a lot of like IVF and other you know, treatments and stuff like that. Now that we have kids, they are, we don't take them for granted. Like a lot of people begrudge their children, right? They don't understand the amount of work over again years that we put in to have this family.
Brendan Hufford [00:34:38]:
So we feel very differently. And I feel very differently about my career because I've worked so hard for it as far as like how, why do I put myself through it? I have a very all or nothing personality. My brain is wired for, again to my own detriment. Like if one is good, all is best. So that is true of revenue. Theres no amount of money I can make where im like im working on this like actively working on figuring out like what my enough numbers are for different things. There is no amount of money I can make where ill be happy. There is no number of pounds I can deadlift where I would be happy.
Brendan Hufford [00:35:15]:
Theres no amount of pizza that would make me happy. Its all of it. My brain is like, you have one or you have a thousand. And the same is true for drinking. Like, I don't drink anymore because my brain is like, you'll have one most days, but there's always going to be one day a year that you're going to have 35 beers. Like it's just, it's just something. And I've kind of noticed, again, looking backwards, you notice this trend. And I think that is also a piece of why I do what I do.
Brendan Hufford [00:35:42]:
I think that this type of work allows for a lot more scale than other work. You know, if I owned like a detailing business, there is a human requirement. I can't scale infinitely versus my work doing this and who I do it for. They have pretty good scale and so do I. So that I think there's that piece. And like honestly Nick, I really like this. Like I really do, like very sincere. I'm trying not to like get emotional but like I really like this shit.
Brendan Hufford [00:36:08]:
I love software. I think it's so cool. And I also love marketing. Like I was literally rereading my buddy ed's book, very good copy. And like I'm sitting there, I'm reading this sentence, just crying my eyes out in a book about copywriting. I'm so moved by a story he tells in here. I love this stuff. This is so fun for me.
Brendan Hufford [00:36:31]:
Doesn't mean it's not really hard, but, like, when I hear athletes talk about, like, it's about love of the game, that's how I feel about it.
Nick Bennett [00:36:40]:
We are cut from the same cloth for the simple fact that there's no amount of information or, like, reading or whatever that can quench the thirst. Like, I very much have the similar addictive personality. Like, my wife is like, you can fall down any rabbit hole. It doesn't matter if it's work related. It's the ADHD. It's really what it is. And you just get sucked into stuff. And you're like, I have to.
Brendan Hufford [00:37:07]:
Yeah. You're like, what's your latest hyper fixation? And it's like, let me tell you about it.
Nick Bennett [00:37:11]:
Yeah, you're like, oh, let me tell you about door jams. And it's like, I just moved into a house that's 105 years old. And it's like, oh, these, like, locks. These, like, special type of mortise locks. And I went and learned everything you could possibly know about these specific locks that are in this house that they don't make anymore and all this stuff. And, like, it's a rabbit hole. Here's the point. I feel you on the addictive personality.
Nick Bennett [00:37:33]:
It's the fact that you're just like, I have to go. I have to know. And the fact that you care enough to really like, to want to do this work because it helps people. It helps people do better work more. They're happier at their own job, in their own business, and the thing that they're trying to do, like, it helps people. So you're like, oh, wow, that's really motivating. The deeper I fall into this work and this rabbit hole, like, this other really good thing happens. One of the things that my wife had to tell me when I first got into this work was she was like, the answers are not in your screen.
Nick Bennett [00:38:03]:
Like, sometimes when you're just trying too hard, come spend time with your family, the answers are not in your screen. And that was, like, a weird moment for me because I was like, oh, but if I'm not looking at the screen, when am I going to do the thing? And then all of a sudden, it snaps into place and you realize the answer is, in fact, we're not in your screen. You do your best work thinking about the problem and working on the problem. When you're not actively thinking about the problem and working on the problem, it's weird how your brain does that stuff. It's like when you're walking the dog or taking a shower. It's like why you have all your best ideas. It's for that reason Ed talks about.
Brendan Hufford [00:38:36]:
This thing, about noticing and how there's this assignment at, like, I think it's like a Harvard course. I just had the page open. I don't know why I'm not reading it to you. Where, like, the first assignment is to go look at a painting for 3 hours, just fully slow down. And it's like you're just building that muscle of noticing. And then after 45 minutes, you can smell the painting. Not the physical painting, but, like, being there. What does that place smell like? And then you're like, oh, the curtain in the background is actually the exact same as the guy's ear.
Brendan Hufford [00:39:05]:
That's wild that the artist did that. Or, like, the shape of the bowtie is the same shape as the mouse on the bottom of it. Like, just the slow noticing of things. And, like, I agree with you, and I think that's kind of a piece of what you're describing of, like, it is like getting away from the work and allowing that, like, back stuff to process, to make those connections for you. And then when you return to your work, you're like, oh, okay, that's clear now.
Nick Bennett [00:39:30]:
1000%. And it's not the stuff that you can do in the first few minutes of looking at the problem, looking at the painting. Right. Like, you have to sit there and give yourself the space to do it. It's like, it was tough for me to create the space in my life to get those things because I'm very much like, oh, like, I got to solve this thing now.
Brendan Hufford [00:39:48]:
Big same. I've always just thrown more time at things. And I also, like, especially being in the position I'm in now, am very careful about my health and my relationship with my children. And I picked an office that, like, where I'm sitting talking to you right now is right across the street from my kids school. And I did that not just because it's an amazing space, but I take him to school every morning. I walk my boy to school every single. We could drive to my office, park the car. Sometimes he comes in here and plays if we're early, if we're not, which we are mostly, often not early.
Brendan Hufford [00:40:18]:
And then we just walk across to his school, and I hold his little hand, and I give him a kiss and I say goodbye to him. And he loves going to school every day. You know how many dads get that experience? Like, zero. Almost none. I wouldn't trade that for anything. Like, that's the best. That is why I do this. Right? Like, it very much is, like, that motivation I have.
Brendan Hufford [00:40:38]:
I. Maybe I need to take my answer back of what I said earlier. Cause I think it's all those pieces, but it's also, like, I remember when my first son was born, he had what's called a pneumothorax, where when he took his first breath, he ripped his lung. Apparently it's super common, but a little bit of air, then the lung heals, and then there's, like, an air bubble outside the lung. And so he was in the NICU, and while he was in the NICU, they're like, he has a really elevated white blood cell count. That usually means he's got a pretty bad infection. Like, we should look at this. So he's in the NICU for, you know, we're in the NICU for, like, a week.
Brendan Hufford [00:41:12]:
And when you're in the NICU, you get a very shocking look at reality and, like, how tragic other people's situations are. Like, around, like, newborn babies. Like, bad. I have to take a deep breath and calm down. Uh, the, like, you get that. But I remember, like, whole. I can fucking feel the, like, little plastic bin that he was in and, like, looking at him and stuff. And, like, it's that so much more than, like, oh, I love software.
Brendan Hufford [00:41:37]:
Like, it is that. But it's also like this. Like, when I. As we're talking, my brain is, like, peeling back a layer. Like I told you, like, this processing happens. Like, I, like, peel back layers. I think that's it. So much more than the others pieces.
Brendan Hufford [00:41:50]:
There is also such a good fundamental truth. Like, you know, there's this James Earl Jones thing where, like, he's. I forget the play, but, like, his son's like, why don't you like me? And they go through this whole back and forth. He's like, I don't. I don't have to like you. It's my. It's my duty. It's my responsibility to take care of you.
Brendan Hufford [00:42:06]:
You're my child. I feel that so much more deeply than just, like, a overarching duty or any sort of, like, primal. Like, the species needs to survive. So we've made these animals that care about their young. Like, it's not just that. For me, it is. I tell people a lot of times, like, it's not business. It's personal.
Brendan Hufford [00:42:24]:
Like, this is all very personal. Like, every time a client is like, I don't feel like paying my invoice or some shit, I'm like, you're taking money. Like, you're taking food out of my kids fucking mouths, and I'll kill you. Like, I get very, like, I have a very visceral reaction to it, so, like. And maybe that's good or bad, but that's how I'm wired. And, like, I think that's, like, where a lot of this comes from. Does that make sense?
Nick Bennett [00:42:47]:
1000%? This is. First of all, it is all personal. We're all people. And if you're doing business and you don't think it's personal, you're lying to yourself.
Brendan Hufford [00:42:54]:
Has anybody else gotten this emotional, talking about this stuff?
Nick Bennett [00:42:57]:
Like, you just topped the first, the most emotional one.
Brendan Hufford [00:43:01]:
Perfect.
Nick Bennett [00:43:02]:
For sure. Here's what you said. Makes me feel. One of my wife's very good friends had their child very early, very prematurely. They have been in the hospital in the NICU since January. It is now middle of September. It is really hard to see this happening, like, to watch this baby fight. And on August 8, my wife and I walked into the hospital.
Nick Bennett [00:43:26]:
She had a baby, or we walked in the day before, but, like, whatever. Like, the thing. She had a baby. And then that was that. And I looked, and I was like, how amazing, like, how insanely blessed, this whole thing. Like, so, yeah. What you're talking about, like, is not lost on me. This is way bigger than anything I could have ever imagined, and so 1000%, dude, I feel you.
Nick Bennett [00:43:51]:
And it's like, it's not lost on me. Like, how special those things are and how fragile they are. And it's like, you look at this kid, and you're like, I'll do anything.
Brendan Hufford [00:44:02]:
I love how you synthesize that was our perspective, was our whole conversation. Everything we've talked about today is perspective.
Nick Bennett [00:44:08]:
All right, man, let's end here. What do you want to build that you haven't built yet? What does the future of Growth Sprints really look like?
Brendan Hufford [00:44:15]:
So I look up a lot to the team at exit five and, like, what they've built and stuff. And part of me, again, like, equally competitive, thinks I'm better than everybody. I'm like, I could build that, too. I think I can do that. We can all acknowledge that's insane, right? But, like, part of me is, like, I thrive with this. I love this kind of interaction is the best part of my day. And I don't have it in my business. I don't have a podcast.
Brendan Hufford [00:44:39]:
I don't do webinars or digital events. I don't do in person events. I do nothing like that. And part of me is like, dude, this is what lights you up. This is your background. Like, this is where you index the best. Why aren't you doing that? And so I think that's what's next. Like, I think it's starting to do more events.
Brendan Hufford [00:45:01]:
Maybe a podcast in the future. I'm just, you know, we're both fans and friends of Mel and Jay, so I'm not doing anything without a rock solid premise to start it. That's why I've been waiting so long, because I have ideas. I have concepts of a plan for this. Silly. Did you see the debate? They asked former President Trump, like, do you have a plan for healthcare? He's like, I have concepts of a plan. It's like, dude, you had nine years to come up with it. Come on.
Brendan Hufford [00:45:29]:
You should have had a better answer. Anyways, the. That's what I have right now, and that's where I think things are going to go in the future, where it is more about gathering together and supporting each other together. It is more about real community. Not audience, where it's me to them, but real community, where I'm just the facilitator. I just. I just got the room and the snacks, and then we all do this together, you know?
Nick Bennett [00:45:52]:
You got the orange slices?
Brendan Hufford [00:45:54]:
Yep. I brought the orange slices and the capri suns and the high c ecto cooler. And then you guys do the rest.
Nick Bennett [00:46:01]:
1000% with the high c ecto cooler. This show is a product of, like, mel and jay in the kitchen. Like, the premise and the thing. So I'm with you there. Like, and I wrestled with it for a really long time, and part of me was like, stop thinking about the work and just go do the work, dude. Part of it is just go interview somebody and see what happens and try really hard and then go show, like, the same thing. I was like, hey, jay, look, I did this show, and people really like it. Someone just reached out to me today and was like, I just binged, like, ten episodes.
Nick Bennett [00:46:28]:
Thank you. Like, I was like, whoa.
Brendan Hufford [00:46:30]:
It is a personal development thing. Like, it's easier to turn. A moving vehicle is something I think about a lot.
Nick Bennett [00:46:35]:
I tell people you can't steer a stationary ship.
Brendan Hufford [00:46:37]:
Same thing. Love it.
Nick Bennett [00:46:38]:
Yeah, same thing. Same exact thing.
Brendan Hufford [00:46:40]:
You have to go. You have to do the thing. Hopefully, that's people's takeaway.
Nick Bennett [00:46:43]:
Dude, this has been so much fun. This is. I thank you for coming on and sharing everything.
Brendan Hufford [00:46:49]:
Dude, I just wanted you to have fun. I adore you and I think the world of you, so I'm just happy to, like, be a part of this. So thank you.
Nick Bennett [00:46:56]:
Thanks, man. I really appreciate that very much. So thank you for coming on, sharing your story. I know more people feel seen because of it, and I cannot wait to catch up with you soon.
Brendan Hufford [00:47:04]:
Cool, man.
Nick Bennett [00:47:10]:
Hey, Nick again, and thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can sign up for the 1000 Routes newsletter, where I process the insights and stories you hear on this show into frameworks and lessons to help you build a new and different future for your own business. You can sign up at 1000routes.com or check the link in the show notes.
All right, dude, what would be your last meal on earth?
Brendan Hufford [00:47:40]:
It's a quick answer, but I just want to get it right. I'm a volume food guy. Like, I don't. It doesn't have to be great. I just need a lot of it. It's so bad. It's very unhealthy. It is something I've struggled with my whole life.
Brendan Hufford [00:47:56]:
It would probably just be like unlimited tacos. Like bottomless tacos with every choice of sauce in anything. Like, I want barbecue sauce in my tacos. I want buffalo wing. Like, I just. Tacos are the perfect delivery system for food.
Nick Bennett [00:48:12]:
Personally, all the fixings is what you're saying.
Brendan Hufford [00:48:16]:
Yeah. And I'm not trying to, like, beat, say tacos, but then it's actually all the other foods. But, like, I just, I love a lot of condiments.
Nick Bennett [00:48:22]:
I'm with you on that one. It's just a vessel for the sauce.
Brendan Hufford [00:48:26]:
Yeah. People are like, oh, I'd want a steak or something. And I'm like, cool. I want seven. Whatever it is. I just need unlimited. It's the last one. How dare you tell.
Brendan Hufford [00:48:33]:
Tell me what a meal where a meal begins and ends. What is it? The bit that, like, the meal's not over when I'm full. The meal's over when I hate myself?
Nick Bennett [00:48:41]:
Yes. I was just thinking that. And then Greg Geraldo has this whole bit on, like, it's death by chocolate. Like, how we trivialize what kind of society have we become where you trivialize death like that.
Brendan Hufford [00:48:52]:
He's like, did you leave any room?
Nick Bennett [00:48:54]:
That was all his thing. Did you leave any room for dessert? It's like, can we stuff any more food into your fat, bloated esophagus that you.
Brendan Hufford [00:49:00]:
That's so good. It's actually a sales technique where they're like, you ask people what dessert they're getting before you have them order dinner, because otherwise nobody orders dessert. But if you get them to do it ahead of time, true.