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Rebels, tune in to 'Let's Talk UNLV' with Dr. Sammie Scales. Your express pass to everything UNLV — campus highlights, programs, and the latest buzz. Join us weekly as we chat with student leaders, administrators, and faculty, diving into the core of what makes us Rebels.
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You're listening to locally produced programming created in KU NV studios on public radio K, u and v 91.5. The
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content of this program does not reflect the views or opinions of 91.5 Jazz and more the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, or the Board of Regents of the Nevada System of Higher Education.
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Welcome back to another episode of Let's Talk UNLV. I'm Alicia Yvonne. And
Unknown Speaker 0:32
I'm Dr. Tanya crab. And we are a que uno de 91.5. Welcome back, y'all. So this episode, we're going to start with something we call mental health unplugged. And today, Alicia and I are just going to be chopping it up about mental health and just life in general. So we're going to start the way we start with our guests, which is we give our guests are an opportunity to tell our origin story. So let's start with my origin story. How does one become a comic book loving, random acts of dancing, clinical psychologist? Well, long story short, I am a Jamaican immigrant. I'm a Persian Gulf Desert, desert storm veteran, prior service Marine. I grew up in Brooklyn, New York. And you know, honestly, my mental health journey began in a quite an interesting way, which was that I myself had suffered from PTSD. My PTSD occurred when I was attacked outside of my door on December 29 1999, I still remember the date by a 15 year old so. But before I go any closer any further, I just want to preempt this by saying, you know, this episode is going to have some conversations related to trauma, we won't get too deep or too wide. But for some people, just the subject of trauma can be triggering. So I want you to have permission to take care of yourself. Continuing on.
Unknown Speaker 1:54
I think that's really important. And I think you mentioned too, before we started recording, the mere fact that our campus has just experienced a horrific experience with a mass shooting back on December the sixth, this too, has what prompted us to say let's have a conversation centered around, you know, mental health and the importance of it. So, and I love the fact that you share your expertise, your credentials, or things like that. So the listeners understand not only are you expert in this field, but you also outside of the human portion of what you've experienced, that, you know, what we shared offline kind of led you into the field that you're in now. So I think that's amazing telling you, thank
Unknown Speaker 2:31
you. And it's a human portion of me that I'm bringing to the table in saying that, when I talk about trauma, it's not from an outside perspective, it's from an inside perspective, I've lived it, I've experienced it at various points in junctures in my life. And, um, you know, the truth of the matter is that life comes for us all. Life comes for us all. And the one thing that trauma is not preventable, if you're rich, or if you're poor, or if you're old, or if you're young, it's just that the world that we live in sometimes has rough edges. And sometimes those rough edges affect us and we have difficulty managing our lives. So all that to say, my origin story is one sort of like a comic book, superhero origin story, you know, where it starts in a really rough place. And then you suddenly discover that there might be ways for you to take care of yourself. And then suddenly, life is different for you. So for me, my PTSD actually led me into the field of psychology. Because the woman who was my, my therapist who, initially I avoided like the plague because you know, I'm Jamaican, we don't
Unknown Speaker 3:36
do know. The industry so you know, some people will say is for crazy people is for this people would know, back then that's just part of our culture, too, don't you believe?
Unknown Speaker 3:47
Oh, yeah, you don't you don't put your business on the street with this, who this is you want to have this conversation where you all your business, write all your business notes. So for me to get to therapy, I had to have my own breakdown. And for me that look like a world in which I was hearing footsteps and having nightmares and feeling hyper vigilant and distrustful and emotionally dysregulated. And really, that was the backdrop that sent me to therapy. Otherwise, I don't know, I don't know that I would have gotten there, except that I had no choice but to get there. So I would like to give Eilish an opportunity to share her origin story because I you know, similar to mine, she has her own her own history with the world coming for you.
Unknown Speaker 4:34
I do and you know what I like the fact that we're talking about where we started, and but also it's, you know, the mental health but also the victory behind it because we're both sitting here, having this conversation in our right mind and being able to share our experience and hope so those who are listening can also have the comfort and confidence that they too can overcome. I remember great pastor him I used to say it's not how you start, it's how you finish. Bishop Calvin Scott back home and for me my origin story originally born and raised in the Midwest, Missouri, St. Louis, Missouri. But I've lived all all over, I was on the East Coast for about nine years down south to do my undergrad and then pursue my masters certifications and things like that for about six years. And now here I am on the west coast. But it started in my childhood, my mother, unfortunately, at the time suffered with mental illness. And because of that part of our lives and our lives, meaning my siblings, and I were abandoned by my mother. And so that really was the seed of abandonment that really started for us. From there, we started being physically and verbally abused by relatives, and because of that, we were taken out of the home boss, but like, bounced around to different homes before we were actually put into a children's home and split up. And so I grew up in a very dysfunctional, very traumatizing environment. But in the midst of that I was already going through several surgeries because I was a I'm a bone cancer survivor, in the midst of being a child. So here you are displaced, dealing with health issues, dealing with rejection and abandonment. And I really did I know for sure that I didn't have the capacity to really understand let alone process, what was happening to me, what really became somewhat my saving grace is when I met my godparents, who I mentioned, who said, it's not how you start, it's how you finish. I started going to church. So spirituality was really, I don't want to say necessarily my way out. But it was part of my healing in the sense, emotionally and even had an impact on me physically. And so I would never forget he, my godparents at the time, pass the First Lady. They have three daughters, and we were all around the same age. And it was three of us, my siblings and I. And so he will pick us up sometimes on Tuesday, US night service, and then he also on Sunday will come pick us up and our members be impacted a little Volvo car, just to get there because we wanted to be able to engage in a place that was safe for us. So going to church, for me was a place of safety. And I felt like for the first time that I belong, because you had people from all over dealing with different things, but they welcomed us. And it was a sense of empowerment for us, you know. So in that timeframe within that our particular timeframe, I remember those speakers speaking and most times, it was about hope it was about inspiration. And so I've just built upon that. And so later on graduating, I'm in journalism. And part of why I chose well, really I believe journalism chose me was because I wanted to be a voice for the voiceless. And I wanted to be a person an agent of hope, and inspiration, I want people to know that you can have a rough start to be tell, I didn't see myself graduate from you know, elementary going into middle school at all high school, because my grades were just sporadically because I wasn't in an environment that was conducive to really learning and embracing education. And so I pursued journalism, because I felt like it will give me not only others opportunity to be a voice, but it gave me my voice. Because as a kid, I didn't have the voice. It was other people making decision for us, where we're going to live where we're going to stay, you can't be in this home, you can't be here. No one ever really sat down to talk to us about how do you feel about being abandoned? You know what happened to you what you got that first hit across your face, what happened when you know you were hearing someone who was so dear to you, and close to you telling you that you're never gonna be anything in life. What happened when you had to visit your mom in a mental institution, and really, you know, and bailing your mom in and out of jail because she struggled with substance abuse and mental illness. And so I needed to be not only a voice for others, but when as I got older, I realized, really, I was speaking to the little girl that was in me. And so the somewhat dis fortunate side of that tie in Dr. Crab is that I then became a voice for everyone else, and speaking and traveling and empowering everyone else, but secretly going home, still dealing with things that had never been addressed in my life. And I didn't have the confidence or somewhat the courage to really tell people, Hey, I'm hurting too. But I was staying on platforms. And I was speaking out where empower other individuals and I will share my testimony, but go home, feeling defeated, not really feeling all the things that I was telling others so they can do some filling others up, but I'm empty. And so I really believe it was probably after I went through my divorce. I at one point became homeless for a certain period of two particular time. And I struggle you know, really just trying to find my place in this world. And so, after my divorce shortly after, in 2008, my mom passed away and I found my mom deceased. And that was a time where I realized that I can no longer notionally pretend, but I can no Longer cover or mass, what was really going on. So me falling apart became my breakthrough. Wow, me falling apart and really not I just didn't have a choice, I could no longer hide or mask how I was feeling. And that was the point where my journey of healing and self discovery, it became about me and not me helping others. Because I didn't realize I thought we really I was doing good, but it wasn't for me. And so for me to really show up and be my best self, I had to get into a place where I can really help me first so that I can help others. So I know that's a long story. But that's just a snippet up until now leading us into what we 2024
Unknown Speaker 10:39
Yeah, it's a beautiful story. It's a it's a brilliant story. So much of your story resonated with me, you know, you know, when I talked about the PTSD, I didn't seek I had no choice. Mental Health came for me. For the same reasons, you know, I couldn't run from it, I couldn't hide from it, I couldn't mask it anymore. I could not hide behind the veneer of, well, I'm a woman, or I'm a black woman, or I'm a Jamaican or I'm, I'm a Marine, like none of those defenses were successful. And to your point, you know, the reason I entered the field was very similar, but to help others find their voice to help others be strong. And recognizing that as I was traversing through that field, that so many of the things that I was offering to others I did not give to myself, which is kind of why we're here today having this conversation. So I want to start off by saying for those who have experienced either the most recent tragedy, that was December 6, or are still recovering from October one or still recovering from COVID, I get the list can go on and on and on. Because life has not stopped during any of those moments, to start by recognizing and understanding if your body is still responding to those things, so some things that are you know, we talk about fight, flight, freeze, we don't talk about feign or fawn so far. So you know, the fight flight freeze are pretty well known, you know, in the ways that we respond to it. It's our physiological systems ramping up when we have that flight. So you know, our cortisol is going, our adrenaline is going, our heart rate is going up, our body is physically preparing to respond to something. But that's not everybody's story. For some people, we shut down. For some people, we disconnect for some people, we withdraw for some people, we disassociate, we dissociate, we, our minds leave because it cannot handle what's going on with us. For some people fight and flight can look different. You know, it can be that anger that shows up for you, that turns into those argumentative disruptive relationship issues. You know, it can look like your brain checking out when you're winning flight can look like your brain checking out. And we all check out periodically. I mean, I'm not the only one who's been like, Oh, dang, I missed the last five minutes of meeting, when they say again, checking out it's not uncommon, but it's different when you can't come back, you know. And let's talk about the freeze. You know, there's nothing more disheartening. When you tell yourself because of the character person you think you are that you're going to respond a certain way. And then your brain says, now we're doing this,
Unknown Speaker 13:15
I mean, isn't that so true, though, that's true. Because even in certain situations, you know, you're trained to do this and do that. But in the moment, all that seems to go out the door, and
Unknown Speaker 13:24
it's not your fault. It's your body engaging, this most basic of protective system that your reptilian brain has has organized is that it's going to do whatever it thinks it needs to do to survive. That doesn't say to keep us alive. Oh, absolutely. Animals freeze. You know, possibly like, oh, yeah, I'm not here. You know, animals have all the same basic responses. The only difference that between us and animals is that we judge ourselves for the ways we respond, and animals are just glad to have survived the situation. So true. So if you survived, if you survived, your brain did its job. The problem is that we have to deal with the feelings after survival. So another thing that happens when we've been through trauma is our emotional response or emotional reactions are a bit extreme, they can be a bit extreme, you know, because this, this thing that happened, our brain is trying to keep us safe. So it takes a small incident and it maps it into a larger world. So the person was wearing a red shirt. So suddenly red shirt to a problem. Yes, you know, or cars or a problem or locations are a problem. So in its effort to keep us safe, our brains, expand the trauma escape, if you will, you know, and for us, we in RF escapes and if we start to avoid those places and spaces, and what that does, eventually is it really does shrink your world. So if you feel as though life has got you a bit discombobulated, you know, I would say start to seek support the thing you talked about connection and belonging, man, just being seen and validated and understood. It is an amazing thing. Being able to have the conversations is an amazing thing. So I want to understand how do you navigate? You know, all of that because your story is deep and wide. Hmm. How did you start? Spirituality was one of your tools for navigation. What's another
Unknown Speaker 15:17
mutuality was one and then also counseling. You know, you mentioned about the PTSD. I used to feel well, I was told growing up, you know, from various people in our culture that only crazy people go to therapy, you know, what is it going to do to sit down and talk to people and this and that and the other. But I learned that going to therapy was more more in depth than just talking, it was speaking with an individual that will help you really handhold in some degree to unpack, and then also come up with necessary coping mechanisms and tools to get through, you know, when you're having a panic attack, or if you're having a flashback, or even experiencing a high level of anxiety, I didn't really even have words to put to the feelings or the emotions back then, until I started seeking out a counselor. Now I saw so the second coping mechanism was counseling, and then really self preservation just working and really just doing things that honestly bury myself in work becoming overcommitted and different things was really like a coping mechanism for me, you know, too busy to be too busy, too busy to really take care of myself, in a sense. And I didn't know even though it's not a positive thing, that was one way that I cope. And then I will look back on the year, like, where did my time go? You know, I said, I was going to do this. And you know, and I didn't do that, but I was filling my schedule was so many different things. Because really, I didn't want to really, I was avoiding, you know, really talking about those things. So there were two there were positive as Copening. The one, you know, just being busy and over, committing myself or over achieving in certain areas, was the third thing that served me originally as a positive but became a negative, if not managed correctly. So but you know, what's so ironic is that I lived a life I volunteer for, you know, different organizations and nonprofits that dealt with abuse and substance abuse. And speaking to that, and, like I said, empowering other people. But at one day, I just had to decide, when I lost it all, you know, really fell apart that, hey, I need to rebuild. So it's a day by day, situation, by situation, you do have situations where you remind it, or your trigger, like, you know, December the six was a trigger for me, being on campus and experiencing those things, but then also being committed to getting the help. And I've already, you know, come to terms with and agree that I will forever be seeking out counseling and development and therapy for the rest of my life. And it's okay, you know, and it's not a bad thing, but I need to make sure that I heal restored have a support system that I need to live a healthier life, you
Unknown Speaker 17:51
know, you made some really wonderful points, can we talk about what we call self medicating. So that's another way folks often deal with trauma self medicating. And when we think of self medicating, oftentimes we're like, oh, alcohol or drugs? No, ma'am. You can self medicate will work. Yes, you can. You can use that as a tool to to soothe your nerves, so that you don't have to deal with what's really happening in your life. You can self medicate with sex. Yes, that is a thing that people do is eating, you know, you can self medicate with food for food. Yeah, you know, all of these things that that are used to sort of you mentioned them avoidance tactics, rather than having to deal with the real issues at hand. And in the beginning, they do feel well, except that nothing changes. That's why you recognize the things you were working on, nothing has shifted. And you said something that I want people to understand and hear is that mental health is no different than your physical health. Like if you have a broken leg, you're gonna go to the doctor. That's true, you know. And so mental health is an integral part of your life in the same ways. You know, I tell people, that when I went to grad school, this is my favorite line of my grad school. You have a therapist on retainer. I'm telling
Unknown Speaker 19:00
you this. I was thinking, What did what did I sign up for this? Oh, yes. I'm thinking Oh, yeah. People, pam pam, but put myself through this process. Yes. Same thing for me when I was in grad school. Yes.
Unknown Speaker 19:10
Have a therapist on retainer? Yeah. Because I knew that that who I was and how I was put together that, you know, those pressure points still existed for me. So I treated it like a doctor's appointment. I went in for my regular emotional checkup.
Unknown Speaker 19:26
Yeah, it was great. But why do you think that our society puts more emphasis on physically being well, and they disassociated with the mental compulsion, but we're one I mean, we're hoping we're not one but I am so
Unknown Speaker 19:39
glad you asked that question, because we have not yet recognized or acknowledged that it's all connected. When I am anxious, My chest hurts. My stomach is upset. My my emotional state impacts my physical state. Our emotional state impacts whether or not we have high cholesterol. Do you know that your emotional state can, it can trigger somatic experiences, it can trigger sensory memories and feelings in your body, you know, so they're not separate entities. And oftentimes, your body will tell you what something is wrong before your brain will acknowledge that something is wrong. So yes, you know, there's a reason when you have a panic attack, your heart is racing. Because your your autonomic nervous system, your sympathetic nervous system, which is your fight, flight freeze gets activated when you're emotionally triggered. And also fun fact, not. So fun fact is that when you're emotionally triggered, your prefrontal cortex shuts off, shuts down. So if you're wondering why I can't think when I'm mad, because your brain has left the building, yes. And much in the same way we can use our bodies to regulate itself, we can actually use our bodies to calm our nervous system down to balance our emotional state to decrease some of those symptoms. But, you know, we've always kept those two places of us separate, you know, and they are very much intricately connected. So yes, you said,
Unknown Speaker 21:12
they're so beautiful in the way you break it down, you're not in a city, you can't see the hand movements and the eye contact and the energy that is coming behind Dr time, but I love really sincerely how you broke that down. Because I do find in our society, that we treat it like it's a separate thing, but it's part of who we are. And if you're not, if you're not, well, he'll, like you said everything else is gonna have an impact. You know, I remember to one of the therapists saying that some of the physical things that you're experiencing, may not, that may just be the symptom, you know, that part that may just be the symptom, your body's letting you know, that there are some things off and when we just keep treating that we need to get to the root of what the real illness is. So that you know, you can you can aid your body to from heal into healing, you know, in a good way. So I'm glad we're having this conversation. Me, I really am. And I hope that those who are listening, they're getting like, oh my gosh, that's me. That's me, okay. And now you're getting resources, or resolutions on how to deal with some of these things, you know, that we deal with on a day to day basis centered around mental health.
Unknown Speaker 22:15
And I want to help somebody to help some folks something, there's this thing called this adverse childhood experiences, where it's a, it's a survey of the things that children experience through life that are actually impactful in their well being going down the line. And the more aces you have, the more likely you're going to have physical ailments, the more likely that you can have substance use issues. So the more things that happen to you when you are a child, even though to an adult, it may not be traumatic, something like abandonment. Your family is your life. You know, not having those people in your life that are supposed to take care of you can have a profound effect on how you move in this world in terms of your relationship and your physical body. You know, autoimmune diseases, I would say that if you have an opportunity to look at this video called Nadine Burke, her name is Dr. Nadine Burke. And she has this TED talk on he says if you're wondering why your physical shape isn't what you want it to be if you're wondering why you're suffering from certain conditions, and it can be traced back to the things that happened to you before you were even cognizant of a word called trauma.
Unknown Speaker 23:23
Wow, you're given all this knowledge, you have a lot of knowledge, but also you refer us to things that you know, we can revisit outside of just having this conversation. I
Unknown Speaker 23:31
want to also normalize one other thing. Can we normalize taking care of ourselves?
Unknown Speaker 23:38
Can we can we normalize that say it again? Can we normalize
Unknown Speaker 23:41
it? Can we normalize, like eating away from the desk? detaching from work? Can we normalize boundaries around work schedules? Can we like I'm making it a point I'm not answering you after work hours because I don't want to train you to think I might have to work hours. You know, can we normalize? You know, because oftentimes when we think of self care, we have this grand idea. I gotta get a massage. No, you just got to eat today. You know, how about that Welcome to self care what a white right the debate this morning right? Welcome to self care one on one. You know, did you did not take that phone call because you just weren't in the right headspace. Welcome to self care. One on One one on one. You know, it's those basic things that we we neglect. You know, this year my buddy and I we were we're trying to mend our relationship. Because, you know, I was thinking about it. My stomach is like the only time you talk to me is to tell me to shut up.
Unknown Speaker 24:39
Stop growling
Unknown Speaker 24:41
just I'm gonna need you to be quiet. I'm busy right now. Or like I'm mad at how you look in the pants. And my body sustains me. My relationship with my body should be a better one. You know things like denying ourselves food Rest denying ourselves rest. Prioritizing other people's over our own physical health, not taking a sick day, until you like, have no choice but to take a sick day. Those small things can we normalize loving us?
Unknown Speaker 25:20
And I know for a fact that someone listened like, Yeah, me too. Can we normalize that? Because without us, I mean, we, we put in so many works that you know, hours at work and we're going to do this, we're going to do that. But at the end of the day, if you're not good, all these other things that we're attempting to do, we may not even accomplish
Unknown Speaker 25:36
those things. Or you might not be around. Yeah, thanks, you burning
Unknown Speaker 25:40
the candle at both ends such must have my hand is raised in the studio, you know, and I too, took some time after the incident took some time to still taking time to process but also to reevaluate where am I? And where am I going? And just because I've been doing something for God knows how many years and a certain way and it's gotten me this far doesn't mean that it's good for me. You know, you and I have had some sidebar conversations about this. So I'm hoping you know, not to discourage people. But I think sometimes we do need to check in with ourselves and say, Where am I? And where am I going? Absolutely. You know, it may have worked in that season. But what is the season that we're getting ready to embark upon? That is going to best serve me? Yep. And making sure that you're well emotionally mentally is so important.
Unknown Speaker 26:25
And can we normalize not filling our cup to share with other people? Like I've been thinking about that there's been some of those statements, because I'm gonna share a long time like, I don't feel my cup so you can have some. When I was at a restaurant, the waiter is not like, can you pour your cup?
Unknown Speaker 26:43
Cup? Isn't it the truth?
Unknown Speaker 26:44
No, he puts a great analogy he brings around the picture. I'm all about showing people to force it. So they can feel their own calm. I'm like here he says she wants them to you. Yeah, I'm about showing you your foster so you can fill your own cup because if I'm always giving you my cup, then I'm always depleted. Yeah. And that's, that's gonna be a no for me, dog. Yeah. I want us to reevaluate some of the ways in which we perceive life. You know that other one? What doesn't kill you make you stronger? Yeah, my husband so funny, he said, or it can cripple you for life.
Unknown Speaker 27:18
He said that the truth though? We talked about the stronger problem. What about the crippling? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 27:24
I am no longer normalizing struggle. No, I'm not cosign that we need
Unknown Speaker 27:28
them? No, me neither. But you know, I want for less can we live? Leave the listeners? With a little hope? Absolutely. Because not only did you go through those things, and 15 Not only did you survive going to, you know, war, or you know, being in the service, but you obtained your doctorate degree, you've put in so many people's lives and given them hope, including myself. So for those who were listening, can you just share how you know you're not this is just your end, but where you're at now, they brought you to that place to give them hope?
Unknown Speaker 28:01
I am, I am so glad that you asked that question. I am learning to love me. And I'm learning to know me, which is kind of like random and weird. But if you think it's phenomenal, what but if you think about it growing up, especially as a woman, you don't have agency over your life for your body for most of your life. I am developing a relationship with me, where I love me out loud. I love me out loud. So learn to love you out loud and start to love you. By paying attention to the things you say to you in the quiet of your mind. If the things that you say to you aren't things you would say out loud to someone else, then that's an issue. You know, and if you don't know how to love you. Go talk to someone who sees the best in you. So they can remind you how to love you. So what would be your tips?
Unknown Speaker 28:53
I would say it's never too late to get started. Some people may feel like I'm in my 40s my 50s 30s It's never too late to get started. You know, I'm getting started in regards to learning to love me at a very you know, it's I'm older, I'm not in college anymore. I'm not in middle school, but it's never too late to get started. And then also, I'm just really taking it one day at a time.
Unknown Speaker 29:18
Oh, and before I forget to mention it because I know I will forget to mention, we are hosting an opportunity to learn to love you and learn to take care of you a program called reset renew, rebuild. And that's going to be taking place this Saturday. It's also going to be taking place February the 10th. They're both in person. This is a workshop where you just learn how to lean in learn how to breathe, learn how to be taught now that crap@unlv.edu and I will send you the link to this wonderful event.
Unknown Speaker 29:50
Thank you all so much for listening. I'm so excited. We'll talk to you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai