Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi

Our theme this season is “Women Leading Democracy.” And yet, lately, it feels as though our democracy itself has become fragile. Frail. This episode, we are shoring up our strength. 

NOW National President Christian F. Nunes is thrilled to speak with Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. She was the 52nd Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, the first woman ever elected to the office, and the representative of the 11th district of California. She’s one of the chief architects of the Affordable Care Act and has been a strong advocate for the rights of women throughout her career. 

Christian will speak with the Speaker Emerita about the fate of democracy, the power of the vote, and what makes the democratic process strong. 

Take Action NOW: https://now.org/issues/constitutional-equality/ 

Listen to new episodes of Feminism NOW released every other Wednesday. To find out more about the National Organization for Women, visit our website.

Creators & Guests

Host

Christian Nunes

BB

Producer

Bethany Brookshire

IB

Editor

Ismael Balderas-Wong

Guest

Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi

What is Feminism NOW?

Passionate about modern feminist issues? Want to learn more about how today's political, academic, and cultural leaders strive for a future of universal equality and justice?

Join NOW President Christian F. Nunes in a new podcast dedicated to intersectional feminist discussions in American society with leaders in entertainment, sports, politics, and science. From conversations on constitutional equality, to economic justice and reproductive rights, listeners will find new ways to learn, engage, and get empowered.

Listen for new episodes released every other Wednesday.

(upbeat music)

- Welcome back to Feminism NOW,

a podcast featuring leaders and activists

who are on the front lines of the fight

for constitutional
quality, economic justice,

and reproductive rights.

I'm Christian F. Nunes,
the national president

of the National Organization for Women.

The theme of season two is
women leading democracy.

And so it's obvious that
we would want to speak

with women leaders who
have done just that,

led our democracy.

And what better person to speak with

than the first woman
elected US House speaker

and the first woman to lead
a major political party

in Congress.

(upbeat music)

Many people might have
grown up feeling like life

in the United States
was solid, predictable.

Many of us, white women, people of color,

the LGBTQIA community, and
many other marginalized groups,

knew we didn't have all the rights

and all the choices that we deserved.

But we knew one thing.

We knew we lived in a democracy

that if we put up and voted for candidates

who would stand up for us,

we would in time see a better world.

Lately, that doesn't feel true.

Democracy has begun to
feel shaky and frail.

That's why I am especially excited

and pleased to be here with you today

and help us welcome Speaker
Emerita Nancy Pelosi.

She has made amazing history in 2007

when she was elected the first speaker

of the House of Representatives

and one of the chief architects

behind the Affordable Care Act.

You know, you all know who she is.

She has done amazing things in Congress.

She has also helped pass

the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Act of 2009.

She's an advocate for child poverty.

She's worked on prohibiting
sex-based wage discrimination.

She's helped be insurmountable changes

for us in this Congress in our country.

Please help me welcome
Madam Speaker Pelosi

to Feminism NOW.

Thank you for being here, madam.

- Thank you so much, Christian.

You said you were
excited for this podcast.

Well, I'm excited too. You know why?

NOW endorsed me when I ran the first time.

And not every woman's group did.

They endorsed some men,
if you can imagine that.

But in any event, NOW has
been there from the start,

not only politically endorser,

but an inspiration, an
intellectual resource,

a mobilizing resource, and the rest.

So I'm always, always
faithful and loyal to NOW,

and I'm so proud of you as
the youngest leader of NOW,

as well as the second African American.

So important right now to have
your youth, your diversity,

and the rest at the head of this very,

very important organization.

- Well, I thank you so much for that.

And just want you to know
NOW is still with you,

and we will still be there to
support you in any way we can.

But I want us to get in this conversation.

I tell everyone right at the
beginning I'm a truth teller.

And I know you are a truth teller,

and that's why I'm so excited
to have you on this podcast.

We have been really watching

so much go on in our
world, in our country,

and we can say that so
much has been happening

where people are really
feeling like democracy itself

is more frail than ever before.

Do you agree with these
sentiments, and what do you feel?

And if you do agree with it,

what do you feel is
contributing to the frailty

of our democracy right now?

- Well, I think you're right.

There is a frailty to our democracy.

It is always something that
we have to be vigilant about.

But really points out the real
necessity for feminism now,

because my hopes are riding

on women playing a more leading role.

Women, young people, people
of color, the diversity.

And that is what has contributed

to some of the insecurity
on the part of other people.

They are afraid of globalization,

they're afraid of innovation,
they're afraid of immigration,

they're afraid of LGBTQ.

Women playing a more
leading role of diversity

is threatening their,
shall we say, preeminence

as sort of a white man kind
of insecurity, if I just may.

And that has been an opportunity

for people like what's his name

who used to be president
of the United States,

I hesitate to use his name, DT.

And he has prayed on that.

He didn't create it, but he normalized it,

and he generated that
insecurity among people,

and that has been a dividing
force in our country.

So we have to, as I say, our
diversity is our strength,

our unity is our power,

and we have to work together
to protect our democracy.

I think one path to unifying
is to have a strong economy

that includes everyone.

And that's what President
Biden has been about

with whether it was our rescue package,

our infrastructure
package, our CHIPS package,

our package for veterans,

our IRA to lower the cost
of prescription drugs,

but to involve young people
in how we save the planet,

new young people.

And all of it with justice. With justice.

In the infrastructure package,

billions of dollars to go
specifically for environmental

and infrastructure justice.

Same thing with some of the other bills,

including IRA, called the
Inflation Reduction Act,

but about justice.

So the way we will make
our democracy stronger

is to make our democracy stronger.

In other words, to reduce
the role of big dark money

in politics, to elevate the
grassroots involvement in it,

to stop partisan redistricting,

to, again, pass a voting rights act.

And John Lewis's bill,

Voting Rights Act is named for John Lewis,

but the bill to stop voter
suppression and the rest

is one that he wrote
the first 300 pages of.

So again, how we make our
democratic system more,

shall we say, true to the
aspirations of the people

so that they know that their vote counts,

that their voice is important,

and it's just not big dark
money calling the shots.

That's why we have to win the election

with enough votes in the Senate

to overturn the filibuster rule

so that we can pass the John
Lewis Voting Rights Act,

as well as the For the People Act.

- Yeah, thank you for saying that.

I wanna go back to a couple things

that you mentioned at the very
beginning as what you said,

'cause that really summed up a lot for us.

You said that what we're seeing

and part of the reason why
our democracy is seen as frail

is because white patriarchy, right?

There's some misogyny, there's
some fear of inclusion.

They're afraid of this progression.

They're afraid of the
power of the diversity

and difference of everyone

and what the capabilities
we've seen happen

from people shifting.

And what we need
ultimately is that equality

and that justice to happen,

but that can't happen without equity.

But we have seen,

and since Biden-Harris administration,

they have really been investing in equity

in so many of the different packages.

And you all have been
really investing in equity

in so many of the different
acts that you've been doing,

which is what I feel is very different

from a long time I've seen.

It's just really investing in equity

and truly understanding that
you cannot have equality

without equity.

Would you agree that's been
a big part of the investment?

- Yes, absolutely.

And again, as you were speaking,

I'm thinking of what we need to do.

And we talked about what we have done,

but there's some things
that have not been done.

And for us to have that equity,

whether it's environmental justice,

social justice, economic justice,

gender justice, gender equality
justice, whatever it is,

we have to pass specific
legislation to enable,

for example, maternity mortality,

which affects the African
American community.

We have a whole slew of
legislation put forth

by many of our African-American members,

but really embraced by our entire caucus.

Alma Adams of North Carolina
has taken the lead on this.

This is an identifiable
problem in our society

and there are answers to it.

And there's resistance to passing,

and that's why we wanna build
the outside mobilization

for these things.

It's there because people know.

The other thing is these things
have to happen for women.

We have to have affordable childcare.

We have to have family and medical leave.

We have to have home healthcare.

So it's not just about children and that.

It's about a sibling,
a parent, or something.

So that women can be in
the workplace present

without worrying about, oh my gosh,

we always worry about our family,

but not worrying that
a child is in danger,

or a family member is gonna fall down

because nobody is there.

And as we have that home
healthcare, we have to,

and the childcare, we
have to invest in it.

We have to have the
resources, the good pay.

Good pay, good training,
good safety for it all.

And that, in my view,
unleashes the power of women

in a stronger way in the
workforce to be there,

to take leadership roles, to
take a command of a lot of it.

'Cause some of this is cultural.

Then with the three Gs.

Gays, guns, God, and that's
what they call abortion.

You know, for them it's God, right?

They don't feed the
children once they're born,

but they call that God.

So we have those big challenges,

and quite frankly, in my view,

they're exploiting the
religious issue on the board.

I mean, I'm a devout practicing Catholic,

all the rest of that,

but give me a break, you
know, with these bills.

In vitro fertilization when
we're talking about that,

when we're talking about
a woman's right to choose,

and the rest of that.

God gave us a free will to
honor our responsibilities.

It's not up to any politician to do that.

So again, these things that
relate to women's freedom

and women's liberation to be
able to be in the workforce.

And I do believe that it is an answer.

You know, when I was very young,

there was something that
people talked about:

women's intuition.

A mother's intuition. You have to act.

You have to act. You can't think about it.

You have to act.

And that is what leaders need to be doing,

is acting instead of letting
other people diminish

the initiative because
you're thinking about it.

And women know.

I mean, we're multitaskers
and all the rest.

We know we have the courage,
the confidence to act.

- And I think going off of
that, the women do know,

so it's really important

that we are asking women what they need

that's gonna give them a
full sustainable life, right?

It's not leaving them
out of the conversation.

It's not leaving them out of the process

of developing this
legislation, these policies.

It's making sure that you're
going to those communities

that are directly impacted and
making sure that their voice

and their narrative and their
experience is really heard,

so there is no disconnect, right?

So there is no disconnect.

- That's essential to it, is don't let me,

and that's not for anybody to
tell anybody what they need.

We have to hear from people,

and that applies to almost everything.

When we're talking infrastructure,
to go to the community.

What do you want?

In the past, they built
freeways to divide communities.

We wanna break that down
to unite communities.

But let's listen to the community.

And in our community in San Francisco,

we are very, shall we say,
proud of almost everything.

I went to Bayview-Hunters
Point the other day

about the Bayview-Hunters Point Center,

which is relatively new.

And the community had say
in every aspect of it.

When we do housing, when
we do transportation,

we do every aspect the
same thing on things

that relate to childcare, healthcare,

women's right to choose,
and the rest of that.

Listening to women about
not just what will happen,

but the terminology that will be used.

That is respectful.

- Absolutely.

And I appreciate you also naming that,

because terminology matters.

My background is social work,

so I'm big on, like, starting
where the people are at

and using that terminology to
make sure we are connecting

with people and we're speaking in language

and words that are meaningful and powerful

for those people and
empowering for those people.

So I really appreciate you, Madam Speaker,

naming that about that language.

I think that's so extremely important.

I wanted to kind of just go
a little bit more into this

and ask you a little bit more about

when we're talking
about what we're seeing,

especially for the women and
our rights being overturned

and the state of democracy,

how do you feel women are
going to contribute to helping,

I wanna put it past saving democracy,

but saving democracy, but
also rebuilding democracy

to the democracy that we truly envision?

- That is absolutely has to be the goal.

It's not about incrementalism
or returning to something.

It's about how we go forward.

And I have always believed,

I'm a former chair of the
California Democratic Parties,

where there's the biggest party
in the country and the rest.

And my experience there
was always you have

to make democracy more democratic.

You have us to make the
Democratic Party more democratic.

One example that I will use is
healthcare. What's his name?

You know, what's his name?

I hate to use his name. It's
like a curse word to me.

- Oh, I know, I hear you. (laughs)

- (laughs) He said Obamacare
sucks. That's his language.

So he knows what he's
saying. That has a market.

And we're saying, "No, it
doesn't suck. It cures."

But when we did the Affordable Care Act

and when we saved the Affordable Care Act,

people said, "How'd you do it?"

I said, "Well, we had, you know,

there were a lot of reasons how we did it,

but we could not have done it

without the outside mobilization."

And the outside mobilization to pass it

and to save it was dependent
on a lot about the terminology.

We had 10,000 events to save it

from his repeal and replace.

10,000 where people told their stories.

Not our provisions, their stories.

And they told us that if we wanted them

to be calling Congress about that,

we had to frame it in their terms.

In their term. Not, oh,
this is one of the...

You know, it was in their
terms and in their priorities.

And that was a beautiful thing.

So again, whether we're
policymaking or doing politics,

it's important to listen, learn,

and go forward in that positive way.

Because there is skepticism,
there is suspicion,

there is just concern about

whether people's vote
really counts and matters

and makes a difference.

That's why we must, absolutely
must reduce the role

of big dark money in politics,

because it has such a big role to play.

But again, we have to
encourage the grassroots.

Well, it is who we are.

We are a grassroots party.

And sometimes that looks, should we say,

I don't wanna say messy,
but not as organized

as some people like to
have their lives be.

But that's a democratic party.

The vitality of it all is what we welcome.

And again, women, young
people, people of color,

diversity is the beauty of,

I wanna say the beauty is in the mix.

The beauty is in the mix.

So if you want the democracy
to be more democratic,

actually, you know what makes
America even more American?

Is the vitality of
newcomers to our country.

They come with their courage.

They come with their optimism,

their hope, their determination

to make the future better
for their families.

In some cases, they bring their faith,

their commitment to family and the future.

Those are American values,

and they make America more American.

So again, the history
of our country has been

of reinvigoration, and
we must welcome that

and understand that it
is that invigoration

that is so important to our country.

(upbeat music)

- We have so many more questions to ask,

but right now we're going
to pause for a short break

for our new segment, Action NOW.

For this Action NOW, I'd
like to talk about voting.

Voting is the foundation of our democracy,

and protection of our
access to the ballot remains

as critical as ever.

Over the past five years,

voter suppression has manifested itself

in racial and partisan gerrymandering

and voter suppression laws that
disenfranchise many voters.

Now it's dedicated to
providing women equal access

to the ballot and electing
feminist candidates to office.

So today we're asking you to take action,

register to vote yourself,

and educate your family and friends

about issues on the ballot.

Together, we can take action now.

And now back to our interview.

(upbeat music)

So one of the things you
just mentioned I think

is important for us to
expand on is about the votes.

And it's the vote is part of democracy,

but it's not just only part.

And a lot of times we hear people,

like, especially I
think right now we hear,

a lot of times we hear,

sometimes we hear younger
voters feeling like

they're disenfranchised from the,

they're not feeling connected.

They don't feel, like, as engaged to vote.

Sometimes they feel, people
from some communities feel

as why do they need to vote because,

you know, the ones speaking
to them or speaking for them.

But I think it's bigger than that.

I think just in general,
we all have to do better.

Instead of just telling
people just to go vote,

we have to tell them why
that vote is important

and why their voice matters,
you know, a little bit more

and give them examples of
how their voice matters.

Instead of just saying, "Just go vote,"

we have to, like, maybe educate

and tell them exactly
more tangible reasons

about why their voice matters

and examples in their communities

about how they can use their
voice to make an impact.

So I would ask for you,

besides just telling a
person just to go vote,

what can we give examples
for people and voters

to let them know areas of why
it's important they're voting

because of some of the restrictions
we're seeing happening,

and why it's important that they get out

and exercise their voice
in this upcoming election?

- You have put the challenge
forth with great clarity.

Let me just give you some
examples of listening

to the voters.

After one of the elections
recently, the '16 election,

which was a disaster for
democracy, for women's rights,

for everything, horrible,

when what's his name was elected,

some of the young African-American,

gonna say some college age,

some, like, senior in high
school, some one year out,

you know, just in that 18 to
23, 24-year-old, they said,

"We wanna meet with you to
tell you what we think."

They said, "Just because
you send a sports figure

or a Hollywood star to say, 'Vote,'

it doesn't mean anything to us

unless they're talking
to us about our needs."

And they found that almost condescending.

And I said, "Well, you know,

they're not there to condescend to you.

They're there to attract your attention

and then hopefully have an exchange."

So I think it's really important

when we're talking to people,

it's about their needs, not
about our vision, necessarily,

unless it's capturing their
needs, these young people.

And they said, "You
know, in this election,

the one thing we heard is
the candidate deserves it."

It's not about what you have done,

it's about what you're going to do.

And what you have done
may qualify you to speak

with some authority about
what you're going to do.

But elections are always about the future.

So I tell this story about
these young people, saying,

"Yeah, it's nice to
have a star talk to us,

but we want them to talk
to us about what we need

to see in the election,

not necessarily why they
are supporting that person."

And it's about the future.

And I say this all the time.

It's not about anybody deserving anything.

It's about what's coming next.

Now, we like to talk about
what we've done to prove

that we share values and
can get something done,

but that is a springboard.

It's not a base.

It's not the reason
they should vote for us.

It's what comes next.

And what comes next has to be listened to

so that we're really focusing
how they see the future, A,

and B, in their terminology.

- Absolutely. It's about
that legacy, right?

It's about that legacy.

- It is. And they are the future.

The future belongs to the young people.

They have to take
responsibility for it too.

You know, and it's not
just, what are you doing?

It's how they take responsibility for it.

Many of them care about
their individual liberties.

They care about jobs and
economic opportunity.

They care about the
planet that they live in.

They compare, again, the
respect for the dignity worth

of every person they are.

And again, they have to know
it's all there for the taking.

For the taking.

And I always say to them,

"There's nobody in the
history of the world like you.

You are so special.

Know your power and use it

as you join with others
around ideas for the future.

Be yourself, know your why,

what you wanna see in all this why.

Know what you're talking about.

Join with friends. Embrace the future."

- Well, I think I was gonna ask you

what your call to action was, (laughs)

but do you have any other call to action?

Because I think that really
sums it up for us, really,

truly, is be yourself, know who
you are, embrace the future,

and get out there and do the work.

Would you have any other call to action

that you would like our
listeners to know or to act on

that you feel will be
very important for us

as we move forward in embracing this

to help us all be a part of
this relationship we need

to build the democracy
that we are looking for?

- It's important for
everyone to understand

that elections ramifications.

It's a very big difference

between Democrats and
Republicans at this time.

I wish it weren't so drastic,
but it's very drastic.

And then you hear them talking

about life begins at conception
or something like that,

and it's like,

125 members of the House
are co-sponsors of that.

Doesn't mean it doesn't
even have more than that.

Eight members of the
Republican Party voted

for women to have access to contraception.

Eight. Eight.

That means 195 of them voted

against women having
access to contraception.

So we're talking about a big difference

in your personal life.

Disrespect for your ability

to make your own decisions in this regard.

And those very same people

in many cases don't wanna feed children.

They say they don't believe
in what they call welfare.

But no, it's feeding children.

Imagine there are governors in the state

which will not accept
the free package of food

that is part of our legislation

'cause they don't believe
in welfare to feed children.

So I say this because I
don't wanna be a fearmonger,

but I think it's really important to know

that elections have ramifications.

So again, know your power

in terms of engaging in the elections,

but not just as a foot soldier,

but as a person who is helping
to establish the priorities.

There are a lot of challenges.

What are the priorities?

So know your power in prioritizing,

know your power in building support,

and know your power in winning elections

and then having the impact
of your responsibility

for that success recognized by people.

Again, Lincoln said public
sentiment is everything.

With it, you can do almost anything.

Without it, practically nothing.

Also, I say nothing is more
eloquent to a member of Congress

than the voice of his
or her own constituents.

So weigh in.

And if they are not with you,

then maybe they need to be replaced.

Maybe they need to replace.

So anyway, the call to
action is know your power

in terms of policy, know your
power in terms of politics,

and elections are very important.

And winning them is not just important

from a political standpoint,
but from a policy standpoint

and from a personal standpoint.

Again, with healthcare,

access to quality, affordable healthcare,

recognizing diversity
among our communities

in terms of how people
are impacted, weigh in.

Weigh in.

And again, I'm very proud that

in the House Democratic Caucus,

70% of our caucus are women,
people of color, LGBTQ.

This is a remarkable thing.

You know, they say Congress
doesn't have enough.

We do in the House Democratic Caucus.

And you know what? We want more.

We want more.

As we reach out for that,
I'm saying to people,

have the courage to run yourself

'cause you are very special

and will make a very big difference.

- Speaker Emerita, thank you so much

for being here with us today.

We appreciate your continued leadership

and your support for the American women

and support for this country.

Listeners, please make sure
you're out there voting,

weighing in, knowing the
policy, knowing the politics.

- Christian, thank you for
your tremendous leadership.

We're so proud of you. Thank you.

- Thank you so much.

(upbeat music)

Thank you, listeners, for being with us

as we use season two of our podcast

to showcase people making
a real difference to women

and their allies in democracy.

Stay tuned for our next episodes

as we cover the issues
that affect women most:

childcare and voting rights,

reproductive justice and gun violence,

the rise of Generation Z,

and the need for healthcare for all,

from affordable prescriptions
to gender-affirming care.

This podcast, Feminism NOW,

is a production of the
National Organization for Women

and Voxtopica.

I'm Christian F. Nunes,
NOW's national president.

And if you like what you
hear, please go to now.org,

read up on our core issues

and our approach to
advancing women's equality.

And get involved. We'd
love to hear from you.

Send your thoughts to [e-mail].

Thanks for listening,
and we'll see you soon.

(upbeat music)

(upbeat music)

- Voxtopica.