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The fun & fascinating stories of Supply Chain & Logistics.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:00:03] Hi, my name is Bryndis Whitson, and you're listening to the Zebras to Apples podcast. The fun and fascinating stories of supply chain logistics. Plastic, concrete, cement. These are things that are in our everyday life and they're things that we don't really think about. We don't really think about how is it made? How does it get transported? And all of the pieces in between. That's exactly what this episode is about. I sit down with my friend Jonathan Moser, who has had experience in multinational companies, including Dow and what was formerly known as Lafarge in these areas. These simple, everyday activities that we utilize. And this is the story behind all of those pieces. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you have a wonderful day. So I'm here with Jonathan Moser, and Jonathan and I have known each other for now, many years. But one day you were just there, and we've been friends ever since. So.
Jonathan Moser: [00:01:12] Yes, since arriving in this great province 20 years ago now. Or at least that long.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:01:19] Wow.
Jonathan Moser: [00:01:19] I think even more than that. Yeah, it's a fair assessment.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:01:23] Exactly. And so you've got a wide and diverse background in a number of different areas. So maybe we'll start there. Yeah.
Jonathan Moser: [00:01:33] Well, I am not originally from this fair province. I grew up one over to the left in British Columbia in beautiful Kamloops. Grew up there. I even… I should even back up the bus a little bit more, which helps my prairie credentials. And being actually born in Regina, Saskatchewan.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:01:55] Ahh, not many can say that.
Jonathan Moser: [00:01:57] Right? Well, it seems to be a hidden attribute to many Albertans, but we moved one further province over to B.C. Grew up there. My two brothers, Craig and Derek. And I went to UBC and then we… as it happened, my family moved to Ottawa. So I moved out there early 90s after I finished my degree at UBC, and then wasn't really sure what the heck I wanted to do with myself and got involved with government, working in politics. So you and I got to know each other even further and did that for about ten years. Then? Yeah, moved back out west, and then my wife Cathy and I, we became an item and that was 2001. Then a job offer took me back to Ottawa and yeah, wonderful experience. Worked in… back in government. Worked for a consulting firm, working Prime Minister Martin's office, Ujjal Dosanjh as health minister and all wonderful experiences. But most importantly, our kids were born there, our daughter Maddy in ‘03 and our son Darren in ‘04. And then after the campaign, being one of the chairs in the ‘04, ‘05 ‘06 campaign, with that transition, we decided to head back out west and yeah, I've been here. Yeah. Next year it'll be 20 years, May. And yeah, haven't looked back. And so when we arrived here trying to figure out what I wanted to do with myself, ended up working for two big multinational companies. So, and I know we'll get into it with Dow Chemical and then spent some time in the building materials sector. Lafarge, then Holcim and now known as Amrize. And lots to talk about with both of those sectors. And now, yeah, on my own. Have my own single Moser Public Affairs that deals with a whole multitude of issues for clients around business development, traditional corporate communications, stakeholder outreach, just strategic counsel and advice. And been doing that since 21.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:04:26] Okay. Yeah, lots of different areas that kind of.
Jonathan Moser: [00:04:30] Yeah, I it's, uh, Swiss Army knife approach I guess is how I've been described that I can tackle a lot of different areas, which yeah, benefits not just clients, but my whole friend… friend and family network for sure.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:04:45] Exactly. So in the petrochemical kind of area where you started, when you came to the Calgary area, you were kind of in that space. What was your role?
Jonathan Moser: [00:04:57] Yeah. So the corporate headquarters for Dow Chemical Canada was and still is Calgary. My role was under the president. It was basically a multifaceted but focused on the corporate communication side. So supporting external communications, the internal needs of the president primarily was my main client as well as the hydrocarbons business unit. And I was then known probably as steel as known. And then the other side was all the stakeholder relations and corporate social responsibility or ESG side. They had their own ESG—so environment, health and safety division—that dealt with compliance of our operations, the plants. And I would connect with them regularly because a lot of alignment from a government advocacy and public policy development point of view that I'd get involved with, depending on issues that would pop up. Yeah, a large part of my role was dealing with government relations at all levels—local, regional, provincial, federal. The geography was mainly focused in Alberta because they have the… For those of you who know the area around Red Deer and Prentice, the little community you've got, that's where one of the plants is. And then Fort Saskatchewan was the main facility, the largest hydrocarbon, one of the largest hydrocarbon crackers, and creating ethane and ethylene to create into the plastics, the polyethylenes that we use in everyday life for many different things.
Jonathan Moser: [00:06:55] And then. Yeah, but this time when I joined, this was 2007. The other footprint listeners would know is Sarnia, but all the assets in Sarnia had been announced that they were, Dow was shutting them all down and focusing them at their main plant in Midland, Michigan. So that was one of the first. Yeah. The aftermath I had to deal with is, well, what's the footprint that's going to be left in Sarnia? Which they really were, it was a decommissioning phase to this day. So yeah, it was an interesting I really enjoyed the work with the hydrocarbons business unit, dealing with kind of ethane extraction and ensuring that where there was a constant supply of that, we were… I think the highlight was working with the government of Alberta to have a… wasn't the best name, but the name that they came up with was “eep”—IEEP—incremental ethane extraction policy. And just help the petrochemical industry in Alberta to have a consistent and affordable supply of ethane to create the products that we enjoy every day.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:08:14] Yeah, fully. And so when you're looking at kind of hydrocarbons and petrochemical kind of area that you were in that space, can you kind of explain, you know, the different materials that you're kind of working with in that in, in that aspect? Just for the person who isn't aware of that moment.
Jonathan Moser: [00:08:34] Yeah, it's well, the main feedstock is natural gas. So we're taking natural gas. In this instance you can, it's… turning it into a plastic. A polyethylene is what the ultimate output is. So the upstream is getting the natural gas in and you extract the different liquids from the natural gas. So you're taking out an ethane and a butane. People will hear this, propanes that all get extracted out of. And there's facilities that do that. So that's part of the supply chain is getting those companies, midstreamers as it's known, to take out these liquids. So the main feedstock that would go to our Prentice and Fort Saskatchewan facilities are the ethane. So the ethane goes into this huge furnace that they call a cracker. Fun name because it cracks.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:09:40] I was about to ask that question. What is a cracker?
Jonathan Moser: [00:09:41] You probably. Yeah. Everyone may have heard it's not Christmas, nor cheese and crackers. Something different. So, big facility that heats up the ethane and turns it. The molecules change and turn into ethylene. And that's really the end product that we use to create the polyethylene. Or we'd also make ethylene glycol, which you people would know from use in airplane when you're using it for deicing. Deicing is what I wanted to say. And antifreeze as well. So those are kind of the main. It has that green, light green kind of tinge to it that you'll see when you're getting… seeing the plane get deiced. So that's and then there's the, you know, the pipe. Alberta's blessed with the pipeline networks that get the liquids, the ethane, and ethylene where they need to go. And like, there's Edmonton has an ethane extraction plant and that gets it from Fort Saskatchewan down to Edmonton and down to Prentice area. And then Nova Chemicals has their big Joffre. People would know that name potentially where their other big facility is. Their cracker is too. Their complex just, yeah a little bit south of the Joffre. Sorry, the Prentice facility Dow has, and yeah we had I mean that I will just describe like the polyethylene people just to give you a picture. It's like a little bead then plastic manufacturers take. So ship primarily train is the way it goes. Because they have the rail yards both for Saskatchewan Apprentice and they're shipped to wherever they need to go across North America and then shaped by plastic companies and all the different things that we need for everyday life that we… that are made out of, out of these plastics.
Jonathan Moser: [00:11:51] Yeah. Bottles and different grades. I guess that's a… not to get too nerded out, but then there's different grades of it as well that… so, you know, you need a water bottle grade of polyethylene. So you have to have that grade versus different ones you can use for toys or plastic, other bowls or, yeah, other products like that. So that kind of paints the picture of what we're dealing with. And it's, yeah, a sophisticated system that, yeah, the industry really started to flourish in the early 70s thanks to Peter Lougheed putting in policies to help really incent the beginning of the poly well, petrochemical. But in this particular kind of the plastic industry. And, yeah, I mean really, the footprint’s in the community and you could see that continuously improving. You know, Dow announced their big net-zero facility ambition. They're working on a hydrogen plant with Linde. And this is all at the Fort Saskatchewan site. So looking to the future, and I think that's the right way to go. I think there's that demand for that type of responsibility for petrochemical products. And, you know, there's a whole stewardship program called Responsible Care under the Chemistry Industry Association that covers both the petrochemicals and plastic value chains in Canada. And I mean, I think that's, that people can rest knowing that there are these programs in place to make sure that not only is the these products that we use in everyday life are responsibly made, but also that they're also transported in in a safe manner that gets it to A and B, so that we can all benefit from what their final outcome is.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:13:58] Well, it's interesting as you kind of… and fascinating because it's this moment where you don't even… you just, okay. It's… there's the plastic and there's plastic in so many different pieces. But it has to get there. Yeah, it had to get there somehow and it had to be created in that process, too.
Jonathan Moser: [00:14:20] Yeah, we're… I mean, it's always interesting to see where, how much is actually in use and that we take for granted whether, you know, stuff even on the kitchen studio, we're dealing with. The wrapping of the game, the computer plastic.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:14:39] Even the mic. Or the cord.
Jonathan Moser: [00:14:40] For sure. All of it that, you know, we can't have without robust petrochemical industry. And yeah, it gets back to that whole notion that, you know, we use our energy resources for beneficial outcomes. We still need it. There's, yeah, my… yeah of course there's a transition to responsible manufacturing, less of an impact on the environment. And I think that's a consistent global trend. But I think we benefit here in Alberta by having such an abundant natural gas supply at a very… a price that allows us in these companies, and my former company, Dow and the others in the industry to benefit from it so that they can get help drive in. That's also the other side. Is it drive in more investment? Because we have the right environment in which to drive more production, skill and all the other factors, from skilled workforce, the reliable suppliers and just the quality of life. Right? I know that that's an important aspect when these international, multinational investment decisions are being made. So, really, I think that's kind of trying to paint a picture of what all these considerations are put in. And yeah, you… in my role and it was once again to help kind of guide the business units as well as senior leadership is what, you know, how to approach it properly and make sure that we've captured the mood of the administrations we were dealing with at the time. And, yeah, I've really enjoyed that work. And yeah, now still do, so today with my own firm, the clients I have there.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:16:42] Was there a fun project that you worked on that you can talk about while you were there?
Jonathan Moser: [00:16:49] Well, the most fun one that you may recall me having been involved with was during the Vancouver Olympics. So Dow is a global sponsor. Still remains today. I would say that, I mean, it was a once-in-a-lifetime type of experience dealing with the whole corporate client hospitality and kind of stakeholder relations during the...
Bryndis Whitson: [00:17:23] Very much so.
Jonathan Moser: [00:17:24] Build up to and during the both the Olympic and Paralympic Games. So it was kind of… that was my main priority for six months of that. Yeah. End of 2009 to the Olympics in 2010. And, yeah, we had a great… the torch run, as we know, came through Canada. It did. I was fortunate enough to run one of the legs and P.E.I. of all places. So that was a fun bonus. But we had organized, the most fun was employees to go and run. So we had three different sections of our employees going out and running. So that was a great employee engagement opportunity. And then just being kind of head of the Canadian side of our hospitality and client program. And yeah, based in Vancouver, I mean, I'm very familiar, as everyone now knows, my Vancouver and BC roots. And yeah, I was able to spend time doing the, you know, getting to interact with Canadian Olympic Committee, US Olympic Committee. The athletes would come by both current and former athletes. And I'm still, yeah, get teased to this day by my wife Cathy, that I was, I nonchalantly mentioned I was at the Gold Cup hockey game. Gold medal hockey game.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:18:59] Oh, just.
Jonathan Moser: [00:19:00] Yeah. Just there. One of the many things that I was, yeah, able to enjoy during it. And, I only mention that because it was, you know, great experience. Not in, you know, just a handful of times, Cathy, for Olympic Games to come. Cathy, I worked in the 1988 games, so she really encouraged me when I was approached to enjoy it and use the Olympics as a great learning experience, which it certainly was. And give me a better… you know, I've done with and handled VIPs all my career, so it wasn't out of the ordinary. But just to be on that stage and kind of celebrating the spirit of the games, I really enjoyed. And got to bring the kids home cool stuffies of all the mascots that they're there.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:19:56] There's a different feel that, you know, in those Olympic venues and stuff like that of this coming together in a different way that adds, like, a lot of excitement.
Jonathan Moser: [00:20:09] Yeah, no. And that was Dow at the time. We didn't the manufacturing in Quebec was with the styrofoam board people may see or the house wrapping there is that building materials. And then there's other chemicals around ice.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:20:27] Oh yeah.
Jonathan Moser: [00:20:29] That Dow provided that was part of the sponsor. So bobsledding for instance, at the in luge and skeleton tracks, that was all able to facilitate that ice because of the Dow, the chemicals involved, and then a lot of the housing and of the facilities all had the rigid board, styrofoam of Dow as well as the, you see that wrapping, tack wrapping that goes on houses, too. And yeah, just the other forms of insulation that we could bring in. But just to be part of that, knowing that you could stand on these new buildings or as a fan, as an athlete, and also to have the, yeah, those that participated in the sledding sports or all the ice, like even all the ice-related sports to have that technology that was in innovations. I mean, kind of cool to see that happen. And, you know, not that that was kind of really the message that we're proud to be part of it and to have our systems ensuring the success of the Olympic and Paralympic Games. So that's probably, it's not a specific project per se. I mean, we but just to be part of that whole program, there are people from around the globe that made up this team within Dow. So nice to be able to interact and have… I mean, that's also another benefit is that you, you know, working for a multinational, you get to learn different approaches and aspects and considerations from people from around the world. And I'd always, yeah, proudly give our Canadian point of view and make sure that, you know, it was worth considering how we handle things and approach things. But also, you know, learned a lot from the others, from the, you know, every continent that we're part of the team.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:22:27] Of course. Yeah.
Jonathan Moser: [00:22:27] But yeah, that was probably the biggest project. And I mentioned the ethane extraction, you know, from a business perspective, I mean a lot of benefits, don't get me wrong from, you know, customer relationship side and just overall stakeholder relationship that build upon and strengthen at the Olympics, the Vancouver Olympics and Paralympics. But the… really, probably just as pride point, just as big a pride point for me is that, you know, actually, because when you're in a government interfacing job, most of the time, you know, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. You're not necessarily going to get something resolved in 30 days or less. And, I mean, to be able to, you know, within a year we had this program up and running and after consultations with businesses represented, I think that brought a lot of satisfaction because you actually saw the tangible results of it in a relatively short period of time. And that's, you know, when you're in a government advocacy role, a public policy role, it doesn't necessarily happen like that. It'll take years for that to happen.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:23:50] Exactly. You could actually see it happening as opposed to.
Jonathan Moser: [00:23:55] There you go. The benefits, the seeing the progress from it, the sales from it, all the actual KPIs that they're tracking. You can see the actual benefit of having this policy in place, which yeah, is what it's, yeah, all about. And you're demonstrating the value I think in, and just to that point is that the… you're there to facilitate the business success. And that's what, great example where that happened. We needed to work collaboratively with the business unit to make that happen. And I think that's yeah, a lot of satisfaction in that, given that you don't necessarily see those outcomes all the time.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:24:41] Yeah. Well, and what I've liked about, you know, as you're, you were talking about this entire industry, there are so many different areas that I was like, oh, right, styrofoam. Oh right, this. There's so many pieces that require that technology that I never thought of.
Jonathan Moser: [00:25:01] Yeah. It's a whole universe of different products that touch different things from, you know, whether it's yeah, mobility, land, air, sea housing, roofing systems, HVAC and you know, air, whether it's the air conditioning, side heating, ventilation. All of that, that, you know, kind of everyday life stuff. And yeah, my… they talked about the human element when I was at. That a long gone campaign, but to bring it back. But it's so true. Like that's what the what it was ultimately about. Sounding like an advertorial now, but, I guess it doesn't really go away. But that's kind of the aspect. I think it's so true. Like we forget about that human element. That's what it's about, helping to… all those different points that your life is touched by, by the universe of petrochemicals that, you know, I get it. We always teasingly say how people just, you know, you pick up your phone or it just happens. Well, there's a lot.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:26:09] A lot that goes in it.
Jonathan Moser: [00:26:09] That goes behind that. And for your house and for your car, like a lot of those plastics. Yeah. All because of that petrochemical sector. So we're… Yeah lots. You could, yeah, we're just scratching the surface. But there’s… That’s okay.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:26:26] And exactly. And you know, as we're kind of talking about things that impact people and that, you know, as from petrochemicals, when we also look at aggregates and stuff like that, because I know you did kind of work in that kind of area too. So cement, concrete.
Jonathan Moser: [00:26:49] All those fascinating building materials.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:26:51] Yes. And I, and… but it's things that we, I think normally similar to petrochemicals where we take for granted that they're just there. We also take for granted that these other materials are just there, too, so.
Jonathan Moser: [00:27:06] So, yeah, spend nearly a decade. Nice of you to remember, Bryndis Whitson. Um, my time at what was then known as Lafarge, then became Lafarge. Wholesome, then Wholesome, and now the new entity, Amrize. And the role there was kind of Canada wide, but yeah, air base in Calgary was also the headquarters here. And another corporate office in… just outside of Toronto's Pearson in Mississauga. But and was my portfolio at the time, environment and public affairs was what it was referred to. So that dealt with kind of four main aspects. One kind of environmental stewardship, kind of the day to day, making sure we're being compliant, just we're meeting the obligations as an operator. In all those business lines, you mentioned the whole innovation side. So what are new technologies, clean technologies that we're looking into? So kind of led that aspect. The… and then the public affairs side which dealt with yeah, all our stakeholders across Canada, whether it was the community relations aspects or around our plants and operations, the hundreds of site we had across Canada, and dealing with kind of government and community and whether it's NGOs or industry associations.
Jonathan Moser: [00:28:50] Then the last part, yeah, really enjoyed this part, too, was the what we'd call community investment or corporate citizenship side, which was what we did as a company to drive purpose and to leave our communities in a better place. And so did that role. For nearly a decade, and still to this day, I'm referred to a bit of a cement head, which is a term of endearment, as I've learned over the years. But what I would generally say is that the to describe the sectors that, you know, I just would stand at a street corner with someone, you and I could just be outside in the front and just look at, you know, the house foundations and the sidewalk we're walking on and maybe some of the roads, there's an intersection that's concrete because there's busses that go to and fro, a heavy traffic area, the hospitals and churches and schools and the buildings, all that. Yeah, all is impossible without the recipe to make cement and concrete, which is also the big thing that I would point out.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:30:11] You were about... I was just about to ask this.
Jonathan Moser: [00:30:13] Are you gonna say, so? Don't use those two, concrete and cement, interchangeably. They're two different things, so it's always best to think of it like a baking analogy. And I'm sure Kathy and the kids will roll their eyes when they hear me talk of this, because they've heard it millions of times.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:30:32] But it's such a good analogy.
Jonathan Moser: [00:30:34] Right. It makes complete sense. So you have the flour, which is cement, and you dump that in to make the concrete, which is the cake batter. And that's… the concrete is the product. And that's predominantly what cement is made for. It's one of the… that's the interesting fact about it. Cement is just made for concrete. It can have uses like for down oil wells, for stability on the wells or soil stabilization. So you mix it in with soil about at, in far out kind of rural and roadways that you want to obviously keep the dust down, but also to provide some foundation where you can't, you know, can't bring in paving trucks and etc. It's just too remote. That was the word I was looking for. So just remember that the flour—cement—goes into the cake batter of concrete. You'll be fine. Yeah, you'll be fine.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:31:35] Okay. Could you still. That was exactly what I was just about to ask. So I'm so glad you. Yeah. And when you look at kind of cement and concrete and kind of creating those kind of areas, you need kind of different facilities, etc. to kind of create those. Are they in separate facilities? Do you do them in different ways?
Jonathan Moser: [00:31:58] Yeah. Great. Happy to paint that picture for everyone. Most people in Alberta are familiar with Lafarge now. Amrize plant as you're going out to Banff and Canmore, the Innexa. So, that, I get teased about that all the time by some of my more experienced friends who say that that used to be a big mountain there. But as I say back to him, well, the progress we see in all the cities and around Alberta and the West is largely due to that. All the construction that because of that good quality limestone that's in the mountains, that that's what they're mining as people see and pull onto those road stops. We did try as we could to get… there is a little, for those that have stopped, there's a little plaque that talks about cement making, and we tried to do something bigger and better during my time there, but never got it through, but that it was in the works. I think it still should be, because what people need to know, even just the simple things.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:33:06] Fully understanding that.
Jonathan Moser: [00:33:07] Yeah, what happens, what's the process? And so that's really where it all starts. And it's actually multifaceted in the way it operates because it's an… there's an actual mine. That's what people see, the big tier mining that happens. So you have to think of it, that's kind of one part of the business. Then they take the limestone, they crush it up, and then you'll see that the space dome that people always tease me about, and maybe YouTube and this, that looks like a spaceship that's landed.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:33:42] So that or a bond James Bond layer.
Jonathan Moser: [00:33:48] Exactly. So the layer is kind of a homogenization of the feedstock. So they mix it all in there and it's all just kept before the limestone mix goes into the kiln. So that's… you'll see, to very simply, there's kind of a preheater stage where and that's the big tower that people will see.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:34:17] Oh, that's where the tower is. Okay.
Jonathan Moser: [00:34:19] Yes. So it's the most efficient way to make cement these days. And that's why when the investment happened out in Excel, that's what that new tower was all for. And yeah, ended up being a fairly significant half $1 billion investment to get that facility up and running. And then there's also an original, one of the original OG kilns that still operating that has a smaller preheater stack as well. But really what's happening is that that goes from the dome, goes into the preheater towers.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:34:59] Okay, into the tower. Okay.
Jonathan Moser: [00:35:00] Elevates the temperature of the feedstock, the limestone feedstock that then goes into the kiln.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:35:07] Okay.
Jonathan Moser: [00:35:08] That's, basically people should think of that as the oven.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:35:11] Yeah.
Jonathan Moser: [00:35:12] That the limestone is cooked into. And that's where the chemical process is such that it’s just the nature of the chemistry. So the chemical engineering that goes into some manufacturing where CO2 is released as it's heated up. And there's also... So that's one point source of the emission. And then the second is the actual fuel. So in this… because of the abundance of natural gas—use that predominantly—that's when you heat up those fuels. There's also that process of emission then combustion from the energy that's made to make the cement. So those are the two point sources. And then what comes out of the kiln. People have maybe heard this term clinker. So it's.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:36:01] Okay.
Jonathan Moser: [00:36:02] Kind of like when you're heating up. The best way to think of it is like when you burn a marshmallow, you have… you take the... Some people love that burnt gooey part. Well, it's that crispy burnt part, that's kind of like clinker. And then that's what's ground up.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:36:20] Yeah. Okay.
Jonathan Moser: [00:36:20] And generally speaking, you put… you add in some gypsum and et voila, you've got your cement, is the end product of that really.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:36:30] Wow.
Jonathan Moser: [00:36:32] So the… now, then that's used for the concrete and soil stabilization oil well services side that I mentioned. And there are ways, like the temperature of the kiln. That's the other thing. And people have heard you know it gets up to 2000 degrees. So a third of the temperature of the sun. And so, can kind of instant combustion within the kiln. So yeah, there's other ways to help mitigate the energy uses by bringing in other products to help heat the kiln. So that was one of my last projects with the company was a low carbon fuel project. We did one in our Richmond, British Columbia plant as well as the one in Exshaw. Yeah, I was proud of that. To be able to steward that. And it basically puts in… think of waste products like wood fines or non-recyclable plastics, fabrics that would otherwise go to landfill. They're put into the kiln and to help reduce the use of natural gas and to create that energy that's needed. So that's one way you can offset the emissions footprint from the manufacturing of cement. And you know, there's the Exshaw plant. There's one up in Edmonton, Heidelberg. They're working on a big carbon capture project right now.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:38:07] Yes, yeah.
Jonathan Moser: [00:38:08] Good for them. And then there's also two plants. There used to be the Trivia. Used to be cement plant and Kamloops, my hometown. People would see that driving in as they're driving in from Calgary. Yeah. Now it's, yeah, they shut it down. Yeah, was… I was part of that when they announced that it wasn't. It was a difficult as a Kamloops kid to have to deal with that. You know, still stings. But you know, with the… it made I made sense given the expansion at the Excel facility as well, as just the demand at that time. And they still use it for mixing specialty types of cement and do some of... Which is great. It's still, it hasn't completely shut down. So I think it's kind of a strategic location, as Kamloops is speaking from a supply chain perspective, kind of, right? That hub in the interior, as they call it in B.C.. So, made a lot of sense to keep it operational. And then two cement plants in Richmond and Delta. They're literally right across the river from each other. So Lafarge on the Richmond side, or Amrize and then Heidelberg right across the river. Like, literally, we… I teasingly say we point our cannons at each other across the Fraser River, and, Heidelberg's right there. And yeah, that's from… that's the manufacturing that you have currently, those four plants that serve all of Western Canada. Some northern Ontario and into the Pacific Northwest states.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:39:59] Okay. Really?
Jonathan Moser: [00:40:00] I know I covered a lot there, Bryndis. But you got me on a roll there.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:40:04] That was good. I really, yeah. Well, and it's interesting because moving like the cement and all of those different pieces is so key. But how it actually gets constructed is really fascinating. Or at least I found it fascinating.
Jonathan Moser: [00:40:23] Yeah, it's really around the chemical process for it. And even when it goes into the… it's that chemical reaction once the cement goes in the concrete to that, it's, that's… because cement’s that binding agent that allows it to solidify and set and you, yeah, you see different uses for concrete. There's different characteristics you want. You want the concrete to set quickly. You want the concrete to have a shiny hue. You want the concrete to, you know, the strength to be different. All these factors go into the calculations. And then there's a whole, the quality control and quality assurance side that is all part of the kind of robust program. And I think it, yeah, you don't realize and this is how pervasive concrete is. It's the second most used substance on Earth, after water. So it's… that's how much we use concrete every day. And because of that, that's why you see this emergence of what can we do to lessen the carbon footprint? So companies are working on different what we call cementitious materials that can be added to concrete. Some traditional ones people, listeners may know of, like fly ash or clays, glass, all these things that add the cementitious qualities that go into concrete. And yeah, it's great. It was great to be part of that. Carbon fibers is an emerging one. So, was during my time there, got to know a lot of different companies that are looking at ways to help lessen the environmental footprint of concrete, and companies that inject, like carbon, cure CO2 right into the concrete.
Jonathan Moser: [00:42:26] This carbon upcycling that have companies I've known for a long time that will carbon upcycling is like a super fly ash that infuses CO2 into the fly ash. So then it's sequestered and helps with the foundational nature of the concrete. And then of course, the bigger picture from a cement side is this carbon capture. So working with Sevente that have known for over a decade and they're, you know, novel filter absorption technology, which is contrasts of amine systems, which are kind of the traditional carbon CO2 scrubbing technology. So all this there are a lot of things happening, I would say, for those of interest, to help reduce the overall environmental mental footprint of cement and concrete. And I'd say even on an aggregate side, because you're, I mean, people take for granted, you know, that it's such an important component. I'd be like kicking a rock when the kids were a little younger. Say, hey, you're kicking that rock. That rock has a value. It's been... And then they'd instantly roll their eyes at me. But it'd be like, hey, this is, you know, this is mining. It's another type of mining. But you get that in sand. That's another key ingredient. I wanted to add on that, yeah, people that cake mixer that we mentioned for concrete. So you have the aggregates and sand and water and maybe other special ingredients, a pinch of fly ash or clay or carbon fibers or what have you, and then add cement.
Jonathan Moser: [00:44:07] That's what gives you concrete at the end of the day. So that's the overall recipe for it. And, I think that's… even with aggregates, you're looking at ways like are there I don't want to say… artificial is probably not the right word, but just different forms. Like you can use crushed concrete. So say you have old concrete barriers or old concrete road. You can grind that up and use that as aggregate instead of mining virgin rock out of the ground, which becomes more important as community. You know, there's still a lot of that where people are resistant. And I get it. There's all these, from a supply chain point of view, like all these haulers are independent companies that the multi… yeah, these companies use to get their aggregate to where they need to go. A lot of dust involved. A lot of traffic issues, like safety on the roadways. All of that, that you have to be mindful of. And so if you can have a better way. There’s got to be a better way. So this better way to do it with this crest concrete, which is. Yeah, proven out as a substitute. Then why don't you do that more? And I, yeah, just a lot of opportunities, I'd say, for having lasting impact and being a more sustainable product along all the product lines. Like the last one I'll mention is around paving and asphalt, lots of different using different products for that.
Jonathan Moser: [00:45:44] Recycled bitumen is a big issue. Taking old roads, grinding them up and using that as feedstock when you're making your pavement. So just a lot of opportunities and I know they're still, yeah, still progressing the right way. The… you talked about pride points and my last and when we were talking about the petrochemical side, one of the pride points that before I left Wholesome, at the time, was dealing with, they brought together like 30 of the subject matter experts on kind of climate and sustainability within the company. And colleague Rob Cumming and I were able to go representing North America and kind of our carbon capture expertise and, and just our overall efforts on sustainability on behalf of that region of the company. And, yeah, to be able to be part of the deliberations and ultimate completion of a net zero plan was a great experience. Loved, you know, once again, another opportunity to do with colleagues from around the world sharing experiences, sharing knowledge, expertise, approaches all that. So really, yeah, proud to have been involved in in that and now really at a… and at a point when this is just was emerging as kind of now the whole you know, there's global cement and concrete association that's dealing with it head on and just looking at ways for… to further mitigate the environmental impact of the industries, this building materials that we use every day.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:47:28] Very cool. So if you were to give advice to someone starting in their career or pivoting in their career, what advice would you give?
Jonathan Moser: [00:47:38] I would say a few things. I would say, don't be shy to connect, like don't use the systems. And going beyond just LinkedIn, which is an important tool, but lots of other ways, whether it's through your family and friends network. Like, I think that you can turn up a lot of good opportunities by just using what resources you have. Don't think you have to go. Because it can be daunting, right? Look, I've been… I've just confessed to all the listeners I've lost two roles I had with multinationals and from my public life, too. But there's, you know, that's what gave me resilience. Resilience. And the passion to continue was just using my friends and families, former colleagues. And so I'd say, you know, just build that as kind of the foundation as you're going forward. I'd say, I think nowadays, the other advice I give is that there's so many different opportunities now. Like, you can get into anything you want to, whether it's, you know, getting some further training on a certain area to, you know, whether it's online courses or technical schools and trade schools. And I, I mean, I'm a lifetime learner. I adopt that philosophy. I've learned so much through work and my interaction with colleagues who represent all the whole spectrum of whether it's business units or business functions, value added functions, as I call them.
Jonathan Moser: [00:49:22] So all the areas like whether it's finance, procurement, communications, landholdings. All the different parts that make up a corporate affairs, and the ones that I, you know, environment, health and safety, public affairs, community investment. And I think those are the more you can interact, you know, in your current role and build those relationships, that serves you well. But back to the point was that, I think, you know, the third bit of advice is that there's… don't… you need time to reflect. This is the last point I'm making, and I share with people just that, you know, always take the time to think about what you want to do. Like, I'm an old-fashioned paper and pen type of guy, and I kind of think like, these are the things that if you write it out or laptop it, or phone on your iPhone or whatever device you use, just write out, these are the things I like to do. These are what my interests are. I think that just helps ground you, captures what you think you'd like to do next. And I think that's also, that's so important from a mental health point of view that… so that you can better talk about, right, with your, whoever is your support system, right?
Jonathan Moser: [00:50:51] I'm blessed to have, you know, Kathy and the kids in my family and my good friend network, and you're, of course, among them, and you and Scott. And so we're I think that's you know, I mentioned that right off the bat. But I think it's for your own. You have to look inward, too, because there's I mean, I think about, yeah, whatever I need to do to provide for my family, I'll do. And I’m probably more excited today, I think about, you know, what my kids are going to do and how they'll probably have multiple different roles during their career, more than I ever had. I mean, they're, you know, look, they're still both in the two sectors that I was involved in petrochemical and building materials like people that like 30, 40 years, like, I don't, yeah. I don't know if we're going to see that type of resilience as it used to be. I mean, I think there'll still be those, those employees that stay that long. But I think there's so many other opportunities now for people to look at other careers, that that's why it's important to do some inward reflection.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:52:08] Mhm. Well I've really appreciated your advice, your conversation, and really, your friendship over the years. And I really liked as we were kind of discovering this piece of talking about, you know, your everyday materials and you've had that impact to actually, you know for to help for everyday items have been part of your career and you've made probably countless impacts in ways that people have never… will never know. And I appreciate that.
Jonathan Moser: [00:52:47] Well, we… I have been fortunate enough to be involved in sectors that make a difference in everyday lives quietly and will continue to do so and hopefully in a more environmentally friendly and sustainable way.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:53:07] Fully. I thank you very much for being part of this conversation.
Jonathan Moser: [00:53:11] My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Bryndis Whitson: [00:53:17] Thank you for listening to this Zebras to Apples podcast episode. I hope you enjoyed the showcase of the fun and fascinating stories of supply chain logistics. If you liked this episode, I would love it if you could give it a rating and review. For more information about this topic, you can go to zebrastoapples.com, or follow Zebras to Apples on the social media platform of your choosing, whether that's Instagram, Facebook, Twitter/X, Blue Sky, or LinkedIn. You can support the show on Patreon. Also, check out the show notes below. Please join me again for another episode of Zebras to Apples. Have a wonderful day!