Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

“No one cares about us, our company, our products. We have to make them care, and for that, we need the right words.”
Great work doesn’t always speak for itself. For communication strategist and author of Message Machine: How Communications Will Make You An Unstoppable Founder, Oliver Aust, getting your ideas noticed requires “message-market fit,” finding the right words and stories to make people understand why what you offer matters. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Aust joins Matt Abrahams to discuss how to craft messages that resonate and stand out. From focusing on outcomes instead of products to building a personal brand and using storytelling to make sense of change, Aust shares practical strategies for communicating your value with greater clarity and impact.

Takeaways:
  • Make people care about the outcome, not the product. Strong messaging focuses less on what you do and more on the value you create, helping your audience see and feel what’s possible.
  • Good work still needs to be communicated. Building visibility isn’t just self-promotion. Clearly sharing your value, defining who you’re for, and developing a distinctive message can help the right people find you.

Activity:
  • Show the picture. Choose one product, service, or idea you regularly describe. Instead of explaining what it does, describe the outcome your audience wants to experience. Make that outcome the centerpiece of your message.
Printable Expanded Takeaways & Activities

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Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

 Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (01:00) - Message-Market Fit
  • (04:03) - Becoming Unignorable
  • (05:21) - Mindset, Message, Method
  • (06:12) - Building a Distinctive Message
  • (08:07) - The PACE Framework
  • (10:27) - Managing Communication Anxiety
  • (12:44) - Storytelling as a Leader
  • (15:03) - The Final Three Questions
  • (19:16) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Oliver Aust
Executive Coach | Author | Host of Speak Like a CEO Podcast | Founder of Speak Like a CEO Academy

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Each of us has our
own unique communication signature.

What is your signature saying about you?

My name's Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today, I am excited to
talk with Oliver Aust.

Oliver is founder of Speak Like a CEO
Academy, where he coaches executives

and founders how to refine and
strategize about their communication.

He's written several books,
including Unignorable and

Message Machine, and he hosts the
popular podcast Speak Like a CEO.

Welcome, Oliver.

I am really excited to be chatting with
you, and it's great to be here in person.

We've done a lot of chatting over the
years, and I really appreciate your work.

Thanks for joining.

Oliver Aust: Thank you for having me.

It's so great to be face to face
after usually chatting online.

Normally 6,000 miles and nine
time zones separate us, so it's

great to be here in person.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

Shall we get started?

Oliver Aust: Mm, lovely.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

Here at Stanford, we teach our MBAs
a lot about product market fit to

increase the likelihood that their
offerings will hit the target, and

they'll be able to be productive.

You talk about message market fit.

What is this, and how can all
of us benefit by maximizing it?

Oliver Aust: Every company that wants
to be successful needs both product

market fit, there's a market for your
product, and message market fit, which

means that you find the right words,
the right story to convince top talent,

customers, and investors to work with
you, buy from you, invest in you.

And if you do that, then you can achieve
message market fit, and you need both.

So in my most recent book, Message
Machine, we looked at why 90% of startups

fail, plus established companies, their
lifespan gets shorter and shorter as well.

And more often than not, it's the
lack of message market fit, right?

You have a product, it works, but there
are just so many products out there,

it's just very hard to get traction
because let's face it, no one cares

about us, our company, our products.

We have to make them care, and
for that, we need the right words.

Matt Abrahams: Have you found
in your research certain words

that work or certain ways of
determining which words work?

Oliver Aust: Yeah, a common mistake I see
is that companies like to talk about the

product, what they do and why it's great,
and why they're so excited about this.

That doesn't work.

You want to talk about the outcome.

What's in it for them?

What's in it for your customer?

You probably heard the phrase, "People
don't want a quarter-inch drill,

they want a quarter-inch hole." But
I think that's even falling short

because who wants a hole in the wall?

People want a picture
nicely hung on the wall.

So show them the picture.

Don't just describe the picture.

Show them the picture.

Make them see it, make them
feel it, and believe it.

Make them believe what's possible
if you work together, especially

of course in the B2B space.

So that's what I would aim for,
the outcome, what's in it for them.

Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.

So the stories you're telling to
help your message fit the market is

to make sure that it's relevant and
you're explaining the value, not what

it is, but the value it provides.

Oliver Aust: That's right.

And it's, you and I could probably
develop an app this weekend on helping

people how to communicate better, right?

We could just do it.

But would it be a
commercially viable operation?

Would it be a thriving company?

It depends, right?

It's so easy to produce new
services and products these

days, but it's harder to find an
audience and find customers for it.

So you can see how message-market fit is
even more important than it used to be.

Matt Abrahams: Oh, absolutely.

And in fact, I would argue that
as you're developing your product,

as you're identifying your market,
you need to be thinking about the

message and the messaging around it.

Oliver Aust: Yes, do it in parallel.

Don't create a product and then
think about how you want to sell

it and find investors, et cetera.

Do it in parallel.

Or the Amazon way, you create
the press release first, right?

And then see if there are
actually words that describe it.

But it's not easy, especially in the
innovative spaces in the startup world,

because you're by definition creating
something that probably doesn't exist.

So finding the right words to describe
it that people understand isn't easy.

And talk to your customers, right?

It's sometimes as simple as that.

You need to go out, founders leave
the building, talk to your customers.

Matt Abrahams: Right.

And iterate as you go.

Just like you iterate on the product,
you need to be iterating on the message.

In your book, Unignorable, you discuss
the necessity of standing out in a

crowded landscape, and it is getting
more and more crowded every day.

For founders and leaders trying to
build their brand in today's fast-paced,

digital, creator-first world, what is
the first step to shifting from being

overlooked to becoming truly unignorable?

Oliver Aust: The word unignorable is
actually wordplay on a Steve Martin quote.

Steve Martin was asked, "What
makes someone successful?" And

he said, "Be so good they can't
ignore you." And of course, that's

great if we can be that good.

But it's only part of the story.

Because in this day and age, as you said,
we have to also talk about the work.

So unignorable means you do good
work, but you also talk about it.

You know, in the same way
you talk about your work.

We're here to give, not to get, right?

And there's nothing icky about this.

So shifting your mindset from, "Oh,
you know, I let the work speak for

itself," to, "I do good work and talk
about it," that's the first step.

Then we need the right message, right?

Our words needs to resonate.

We need to find an audience,
customers, et cetera.

So we need the message,
and we also need a method.

We need to find a way that increases
our reach and our reputation.

So that's where I would start, with the
mindset, the message, and the method.

Matt Abrahams: Anybody listening,
and you know this about me, I

love mnemonics that help us.

So I loved the three Ms. Can
you break those down for us?

So the mindset is being comfortable,
being out front with the value you bring.

Other parts of that mindset piece?

Oliver Aust: In 2018, when I
started building my brand and

start to write books, starting
to podcast, I was hesitant.

And my team told me, "Oliver,
you need to be out there.

You need to be seen." And I said, "But
it's about the team, it's not about

me." It's like, "Yeah, we hear you,
but it helps all of us." So I think

there is this mindset shift that we
all go through, and many of us have

been brought up not to toot our own
horns, to be humble, and those are

wonderful qualities and embrace them.

However, no one will know about us,
and that, in this day and age where,

let's face it, it's hard out there.

The labor market's tough.

We need to be seen.

So in a way, our personal brand
is our moat in the age of AI.

Matt Abrahams: Well, I like that.

Another M to be thinking about.

So finding that level of comfort
with being out there espousing what

it is you're representing, your
brand, your idea, your product.

It is hard.

It was hard for me, too.

But if you remind yourself that the
work adds value to other people, and

being a mouthpiece for that can help.

In terms of messaging, and I know this
is a huge question, I don't mean it

to be unfair, but what have you found
most helpful when people are trying to

present their brand in terms of messaging?

Oliver Aust: I would focus on
what you bring to the other person

and also who you are for and who
you're not for and what you're not.

Because our brains are very
good at understanding contrast.

I'm this, not that.

We're not good at understanding better.

What does that even mean?

Who's better than what?

Whose offer is better than what?

But if I'm saying, you know, "I'm
for leaders. I'm helping leaders

communicate better with my Speak Like
a CEO method," first of all, I said

who I am for, and then I said there's
something specific about the way I do it.

I have my own method, and everything
is my academy and my books, et cetera,

everything is called Speak Like a CEO.

So there's something distinctive about
it, and if you say, "I need a workshop

for 200 employees," it's probably not me.

I work with leaders.

So try to be distinctive and try
to be clear who you're for and what

you're not and who you're not for.

Matt Abrahams: That idea of contrast,
who you're for, who you're not for,

what you don't do, very important.

It helps you define for yourself
who your target audience is, but it

helps your target audience figure
out if you are appropriate for them.

So taking the time to do that
thoughtful messaging is important.

Oliver Aust: That's right, and we
have three C's here that can help us.

So there's the contrast,
there's the compression.

So we want to make it short, right?

We don't want to spend 30
seconds, two minutes to explain

who we are and what we do.

And then there's cadence.

It should sound right.

And if we have something short,
compressed, something that has good

cadence, and something that contrasts,
then we're on the right path for

very strong, very succinct messaging.

Matt Abrahams: Three M's
that lead to three C's.

I really like that.

So the three C's again are
contrast, cadence, and compressed,

being concise and clear.

Excellent, and I think those are three
criteria you can use to assess and

measure any message as you craft them.

Let's talk about method.

So there are lots of channels through
which we can communicate information.

What advice and guidance do you have
for finding the appropriate method

for the message that you have?

Oliver Aust: Of course, think about
where your audience is, and for

many of us, that may be LinkedIn.

You are very active on LinkedIn.

I'm very active on LinkedIn.

And on LinkedIn, I'd say
it's all about your PACE.

PACE is your profile, your audience,
your content, and the engagement.

Profile is actually so important
these days for a number of reasons.

I'd say it's your digital first
impression, so you want to get that right.

And yet I see a lot of profiles
of professionals that are a

little, let's say, unloved.

They could use a little TLC, and I
think it's just professional self-care

to spend a little time on your profile.

So that's where I would start.

Make sure it really represents you well.

It used to be said that, "Oh, don't
dress for the job you have. Dress for

the job you want to have." I'd say today
it's, "Don't create a LinkedIn profile

for the job you have. Create one for
the job you want to have." You know, a

little TLC is probably in order there.

So that's the profile.

And then the A in PACE is your audience.

Think about who you want to reach
because there are a billion people.

If you don't have the clarity,
you're not gonna reach anyone.

Maybe you need 100,000 followers.

Maybe you just need
1,000 strong connections.

So reach out to people in your industries.

Who are the decision makers in
your industry that should know you?

Engage with their content, reach
out to them, connect with them.

So think about this with intention.

Then content.

You probably think that
LinkedIn is pretty busy, right?

Lots of people posting content.

But actually, of the billion
plus people on the platform,

only 1% of them post regularly,
like a couple of times per week.

So if you post two times a week,
you're in the top 1% on LinkedIn.

You're in top 1% in your
industry on LinkedIn.

And let's say you post good quality
content, you're probably in the 0.1%

in your industry just by posting a
few solid posts per week, not AI slop.

And then E, engagement in PACE.

That is, you need to engage with other
people's content, so they engage with you.

It's give and take, right?

It's not, "Oh, please come and engage
with my content," if you're not willing

to engage with other people's content.

Matt Abrahams: I love a good
acronym, and I think for any online

posting, PACE makes a lot of sense.

Think about your profile, think
about your audience, really focus

on your content, and then engage.

Engage not just with your content,
but content of other people.

If you do that, not only will you
keep up the pace, you'll set the pace.

I appreciate that.

So for people who do what we
do, Oliver, anxiety looms large

for those that we try to help.

Share with me a little bit about how
you help people feel more comfortable,

confident, and calm when they communicate.

Oliver Aust: Maybe I can
contribute one little framework.

And, and I developed this for
myself because like everyone, you

know, if the stage is big enough
and the stakes are high enough, I

think we can all feel it, right?

So it's BMW: body, mind, and words.

And it starts with your body and the
order matters because if we're nervous,

as you know, it's a physiological signal.

And we can do sighing, we
can do breathing exercises.

I'm a big fan of movement because if we
stand in the same place or sit in the

same place, the body can feel trapped.

So a little movement, light movement,
walking around the block is much better

than checking our emails before we
go on stage or give a presentation

because that probably gets our blood
racing and something is in there that

really excites us in a negative way.

B, body, breathing, sighing, movement.

Then mindset.

It helps to reframe the
nervousness as excitement.

On top of that, I'm a big fan of power
memories, meaning we think back to

similar situations that we aced, right?

If I'm going to present to the
board and my mind goes in all, all

the things that could go wrong, no.

Bring your memories back to the
presentations that you did really well.

So that's a power memory, and it helps
us when we drift off into all the

negative territory to bring it back.

And then the W is the words.

People get nervous because of their
words, because either they haven't

prepared enough, solution is simple,
or they have prepared in the wrong

way, which means they have usually
tried to remember a script, right?

And as you're a big proponent
of structure, you wanna use

structure, not a script.

A script is, is very time-consuming.

It's hard.

We are not professional actors,
so we wanna use structure.

We wanna memorize our key messages,
our points, not remember a script.

So BMW, we reset our nervous system,
we reframe the situation in our

minds, and then we prepare with
structure to organize our words.

Matt Abrahams: Well put.

Again, a useful way of remembering.

You've redefined the CEO role.

You argue that the CEO really
should be the storyteller in chief.

Tell me more about that and how do
we help CEOs, and it doesn't have

to be CEO, leaders of any type, to
really understand the importance

of storytelling in their job?

Oliver Aust: Stories is how we think,
how we make sense of the world, right?

A two-year-old can understand a
story, but it takes 20 years of

education, Stanford, for instance,
to be a good finance professional

or to be, be a doctor or something.

You can see why storytelling beats
fact-telling every day of the week.

What does it mean for CEOs?

I think especially in this day and
age where the world is changing so

fast, no company can be sure that
it's gonna be around in a few years.

Many employees worry about what AI
will do to their jobs, their roles.

I think especially now, a CEO has a duty
to make sense of the world for employees,

but also for other stakeholders, right?

Whether it's investors,
regulators, the public.

I think it's their duty, and
I think that storytelling is

the right vehicle to do this.

How?

To me, there are three levels of speakers.

The bottom level is of the rambler, right?

The rambler starts somewhere and ends
somewhere and thinks while they speak,

but they lose the audience in the process.

Level two is the robot, and the robot is
scripting it out, rehearsing it 20 times.

It's gonna be on message, but it's
gonna be stiff and unnatural, so

it's not gonna be very engaging.

It's not gonna be a great storyteller.

So level three is the raconteur, the
storyteller, and the storyteller uses

story structure, doesn't use scripts,
and just has that mindset of, "I need

to tell a story. I need to explain what
our vision is. Where are we going?"

What, so what, now what is one
of your favorite structures.

There are some others like
excite, disturb, assure,

or goal, problem, solution.

So I can talk about the things we wanna
achieve as a business, or I say, "Here's

the goal. Now, here's the challenge we
face, and here's the solution," right?

And if I do this, then I start becoming
a stronger storyteller, and it's

not actually rocket science, right?

It comes so naturally to us once
we overcome this inhibition of,

"Oh, I need to tell facts and this
is what we do here." I think that

belongs to the industrial age.

I think today we live in an age
of visionaries and storytellers

because none of us knows where we
are going, what happens to the world.

So the more inspirational, the
more educational a leader can

be, the better for everyone.

Matt Abrahams: Well put.

Having the ability to tell a story, to
focus on the importance of storytelling

really makes a difference, and it
makes a difference in all of our lives,

regardless of if we're leaders or not.

Oliver, I knew this was
going to be fantastic.

I knew it was because we've had
several conversations, and I always

learn something and really enjoy it.

Before we end, you well
know I ask three questions.

One I make up just for you, and the others
I've been asking people for a long time.

Are you up for that?

Oliver Aust: Absolutely.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

As somebody who studies communication,
has really invested your life in not

only developing your own, but helping
others, I'm curious if there's one

area that you find yourself coming back
to that you yourself are working on.

I constantly have to work
on my listening skills.

I feel that I can always get better in all
communication, but particularly listening.

Curious if there's something that you're
working on, and how are you working on it?

Oliver Aust: I'm trying to work on my
humor and trying to be, you know, more

interesting, more entertaining because
as you know, the brain doesn't pay

attention to boring things, and yet a
lot of business communication is boring.

So the bar is very low to be a
little more entertaining than

the next guy who's presenting.

So that's definitely
an area I'm working on.

And I learned this from Drew
Tarvin, who wrote a great

book called Humor That Works.

He's a fantastic guy, and we spent
some time together last year.

And he said, "It's not really about
telling jokes or scripting jokes.

It's about being that conversational
humor, that levity you bring in,

and just trying to think, how
can this be a little more fun?

How can this presentation
a little more fun?

Okay, maybe there's a meme, maybe
there's a funny picture I can use.

How can we make this conversation
more fun?" These little

things, that's often enough.

It's not ha-ha, laugh out loud.

It's really those little steps.

So humor is definitely an area.

Matt Abrahams: I personally
need to work on that, too.

But this idea of bringing levity allows
for connection and allows for energy,

and I appreciate you working on it.

And, and I've known you long enough
to know you're pretty good at it.

You're pretty funny.

Question number two, who's a
communicator that you admire and why?

Oliver Aust: 2021, there was a new CEO
of the Hugo Boss company, that's a German

apparel company, called Daniel Riekert.

And he came in, the company was
in a slightly challenged position.

And in the first week, he assembled
his top 100 leaders, and he said to

them, "Look, we have a choice here.

We can either spend the next year
getting to know each other and

building trust, or we decide right
here that we trust each other.

Now, I know this is a great company.

Only great people work here.

That's why I'm telling you
now, I'm trusting you."

And the team responded in
kind and also trusted him.

And the result was the next few
years were actually very strong

from a business perspective and
obviously made things easier.

So for me, the lesson is, as a
leader, as a communicator, be

trusting and be trustworthy.

That's how you build trust.

And that's why I admire him for
this statement and this approach

because I think it's not easy.

You come into a new company that
isn't doing so well, to be that

trusting in the people who are
already there, that's a move

Matt Abrahams: I appreciate
you sharing that.

At the end of the day, trust
underlies communication.

It's about connection and trust.

But when we had Jamil Zaki on as a guest,
he said one of the things we can do to

really build trust is to trust loudly.

In other words, state out loud your trust,
and you just gave a great example of that.

Hate to have to ask our final question,
but we do have to bring this to an end.

What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

Oliver Aust: I think we often jump to
the question, "Oh, what am I gonna say?"

I would suggest let's take a step back
and just strategize for a few seconds.

I always start with character.

Like, how do I want to show up?

Am I a coach, a mentor?

Do I want to inspire?

Do I inform?

Second is context.

And there I put myself in the
shoes of the audience, right?

What are their worries, their
fears, their hopes, desires?

What's their state of mind
for this conversation?

And only thirdly, content.

What do I want to say?

So character, context, and content.

Those are three ingredients I
would think about before any

presentation, conversation, et cetera.

Matt Abrahams: Enough said.

You paraphrased it.

You gave an excellent tool to remember it.

Those three make for excellent
communication, as does all your advice.

You have been very helpful in giving us
actionable, clear, and memorable tips.

Oliver, you did not disappoint.

I knew you wouldn't.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Oliver Aust: Thank you, Matt.

I really appreciate all the work you're
doing, and love your book, as you know.

So appreciate it.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
listening to another episode of

Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about how to be an
effective communicator, please listen

to episode 82 with Nancy Duarte.

This episode was produced by
Katherine Reed, Alex McCarthy,

Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd
Wonder, with special thanks

to the Podium Podcast Company.

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