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If you are seeking new ways to increase your ROI on marketing with your commerce platform, or you may be an entrepreneur who wants to grow your team and be more efficient with your online business.
Talk Commerce with Brent W. Peterson draws stories from merchants, marketers, and entrepreneurs who share their experiences in the trenches to help you learn what works and what may not in your business.
Keep up with the current news on commerce platforms, marketing trends, and what is new in the entrepreneurial world. Episodes drop every Tuesday with the occasional bonus episodes.
You can check out our daily blog post and signup for our newsletter here https://talk-commerce.com
Brent Peterson (00:02.658)
Welcome to this special edition of the Magento version of Talk Commerce. Today I have Ravi Mattel. He is with Rave Digital, Headworks, and he has been putting on Meet Magento Florida for the last couple years, which has been such a fantastic event. Almost like Magento Imagine, just in a different, well actually just like Magento Imagine, maybe not as hot during the summer. Ravi, go ahead, do an introduction for yourself.
Tell us your day -to -day role and one of your passions.
Ravi Mittal (00:33.622)
Absolutely. So I run and operate two companies, Rave Digital, which is a services company. And we specifically focus on Magento, Adobe Commerce platform. I still like to call it Magento because that's my love and passion. And that's why we haven't resorted to another platform for agency services. So we're purely a Magento agency. We started in 2008 after I left IBM.
started with a regular web dev shop and agency, but we pivoted specifically into e -commerce using Magento platform. Then another company that I run is a Headworks, is an extension building company in Magento. We have 57 extensions. We have won four awards for our extensions. That is a company that is also 15 years old, and they've been building extensions, quality extensions for 15 years.
But we acquired that in 2019. So now we are a one -stop shop where we can service merchants using Magenta platform and we can leverage our product and services, vice versa. We can give them products and if we have any experience from our services and deliveries, then we can update our products based on what merchants need. So it's a one -stop shop and it's very uniquely positioned. That's kind of why us. We are the only agency which has equally strong services and products.
Brent Peterson (02:01.234)
Yeah, and I've been a longtime user of a headworks and I've very much enjoyed the extensions over all these years and I didn't realize that you had started in Magento such a long time ago, longer than myself even. Before we go, I'm sorry, we forgot about the passion. What is it? What do you have for passions in life? What do you do? You're in South Florida, so... Yeah.
Ravi Mittal (02:23.572)
Yeah, outside of work. Outside of work, I play golf. I love tennis. US Open is going on right now. And we had, you know, I follow tennis, know, so Alcaraz is out in round two. And I think Naim's Osaka is also out. So like, you know, it's a pretty interesting game. And that's the sport I follow. And I play golf. That's, that's those are my
Brent Peterson (02:49.804)
That's great. All right, before we get started, I'm going to tell you a joke. It's part of the free joke project. All you have to do is give me a rating one through five. And I know that you're probably younger than me, but I think I have a joke that'll at least target our age bracket. So here we go. If anybody wants to know why Gen X is always mad, it's because we had to replace our record collections with tape collections. Then we had to replace our CD collections
Ravi Mittal (03:06.899)
arranged.
Brent Peterson (03:19.628)
and then we had to replace our MP3 collections, and now we need a subscription to listen to music.
Ravi Mittal (03:25.3)
Yeah, absolutely. has changed. It has come a long way. has absolutely. And then most of our, most of the younger GenX people won't even know what a cassette is. Won't even know how to record over the cassettes, you know? Like I would have a small cassette player where, I mean, my, you we wouldn't have money. So we would record the new songs all over again and again and again and again. yeah, that's something probably people cannot associate with, younger people can associate with. Yeah, so definitely.
Brent Peterson (03:36.237)
Exactly.
Yeah.
Brent Peterson (03:55.47)
Yeah, so maybe maybe yes ready, please
Ravi Mittal (03:57.28)
So have to read it on a scale of what, to five? It's four, it's pretty good, yeah. It's pretty interesting to think about it, yes.
Brent Peterson (04:06.772)
All right. Thank you, Ravi. All right. So let's, you kind of have the perfect trifecta now you have a, you have a services company and rave digital, you have a product company and headworks, and now you're doing this fantastic conference called meet magenta Florida. Tell us kind of the motivation behind that. And that was a big undertaking and you took it on after the pandemic and sort of right as conferences are starting again.
Ravi Mittal (04:34.932)
Yeah, yeah, it's starting again. But after the pandemic, was a period, I mean, during pandemic was all boom, everyone was hiring, everyone was traveling, not traveling, but everybody was spending money. But post pandemic, when we started, we did the first year of the conference, all of a sudden companies started doing cost cutting, and there was TNL free. So we started traveling again, and then we stopped and there was TNL free. So it was challenging year to start in. But we pulled it and we did it in three months. So
We pulled it off in three months. started late, but we were able to pull it off and we did a pretty good job, I would like to say.
Brent Peterson (05:11.64)
Yeah, so what, you picked the hard rock in seminal, the seminal hard rock in...
Ravi Mittal (05:16.342)
Yeah, see, okay, so whoever is in the magenta ecosystem definitely can resonate with me. We all miss Magenta Imagine, right? So when I went first time, 2019 was the last Magenta Imagine if I remember it correctly. We were exhibiting there. It was in Vinn Ankor. It was a great conference. Loved it. Magenta Man was there in Orange. It was a good community conference.
lot of learning, lot of value, lot of education, and at the same time, lot of fun. With Adobe, everything, when I went to Adobe Summit, the first time after pandemic, everything was diluted. We participated as a sponsor in the virtual conference that they did post pandemic, and then in person as well, we exhibited both as a headworks and brave. But we did not.
feel the same kind of vibe and wasn't loving it. And I would hear all the time Magento Imagine was so great. And then came the idea of hosting Meet Magento Florida. It was wrong time. My director of Nicole, you know very well, she was completely against it. Many people advised me against it and so...
And that wasn't the first time in my life people advised me against acquiring AIDworks as well. But I had this gut feeling about it that I wanted to, first of all I enjoy doing these things. So if you have seen me organizing these things, I don't see it as a work, I don't see it as a business play. If you don't enjoy doing this thing, you cannot put up a good show. So I enjoy doing that kind of thing and I enjoy organizing things and I did something like that back in the college.
We're organizing festivals and things of nature and I loved it, right? So it gives me joy. That's the main reason to do it, to be honest. That's the main reason to do it because I wanted to have the same kind of feeling that I had, same kind of joy that I had, I imagined in 2019. I wanted to bring that back. So that's the reason.
Brent Peterson (07:28.684)
Yeah, that's, that is such a great reason is to do it for the joy. And, I, know, I can speak from some experience of having put on a lot of different conferences and different parts of the world. And you have to have some kind of energy and you have to have some drive to do that. And it isn't, it isn't monetary at all. You, you you can't go into this thinking I'm going to make like, we're not conference organizers, so we don't organize the conference to make money. We organize a conference for the community.
Ravi Mittal (07:53.13)
Yeah.
Brent Peterson (07:58.474)
And again, I really appreciate what you said about that joy. One other thing that I really liked about what you do at Meet Magenta Florida is that you not only organize the conference, but you do a lot of extracurricular activities that help people to enjoy themselves while they're in Southern Florida. Tell us a little bit about that.
Ravi Mittal (08:03.092)
Yeah?
Ravi Mittal (08:14.55)
Yes.
Ravi Mittal (08:18.059)
Yep.
Ravi Mittal (08:21.366)
Yeah, I mean, by the way, you are the inspiration for that, right? So in 2019, when I did attend, if I remember the years correctly, again, we are getting the age where probably, or numbers and years in our head, you know, probably can get a little broad. I remember I was, and I have a picture in front of that last -wages sign as well, where you organize a run. And I got up in the morning being up and about, you know, I'm a late -nighter, right? So.
I was up in the morning for the run and I enjoyed it. you know, organizing those kinds of things that just gives a fuller experience, you know, for the conference. And that is what is needed. Each component in the conference and the components around it are very critical and important to the success of the conference and giving a fuller experience to people. So yes, we did excursions. Historically, I Magento, Meet Magento.
is a one -day conference, but we knew that if somebody has to come to South Florida and travel all the way, right, then it cannot be a day conference. It has to be a two -day conference. So we started with one and a half day. And another thing that I find that is probably an ongoing trend is that the sponsors spend the money, which I did as well at the summit and all, and we don't get a ROI.
and we cannot justify sponsoring a conference, right? So the conference is structured with certain components to make sure that the sponsors get value. Like we did meeting validation so that we don't give away free tickets. You have to give love to our sponsors, give them 10, 15 minutes, that's it, at the expo hall, at the meeting only area. And then you get a meeting validation. If you collect five of them, then you get free ticket.
whole intent behind that was to giving value to our sponsor and making sure that they get the meetings because if they're dropping you know 10, 15, 20 thousand dollars they need to get value out of it. We also on the day one we wanted to do half a day sponsor only like expo hall only kind of area where people can just hang out and that's why we host happy out there because you know good conversations to me happen over a drink.
Ravi Mittal (10:45.098)
So if they have a good drink and they have appetizers and chocolate and then they are hanging out in the expo hall only, then that brings more value to our sponsor. That's the intent and structure behind it. So we have to definitely pivot and think about how can I give more value to not just the sponsors. And it is just, it's a yin and yang. If the sponsors are finding ROI, they will invite people, the attendees will be there, merchant will have more value. The SIs will also find more value.
So all three segments of people that attend this conference will find more value in the conference. That was the intent behind it. Last year we added excursions. So excursions would happen on the day three where we had trip to Everglades or walking tour of Windward and we had a beach day where people can be jet ski and hang out. So we had those excursions just because these conferences happen on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday is a blank day. People end up staying in South Florida when they're traveling all the way.
escaping the cold, know, excruciating cold in the rest part of the world. So when they come there, they probably will be hanging out a day or two more. In South Korea, we wanted to pre -plan and arrange certain things for them to happen.
Brent Peterson (11:59.724)
Yeah, one thing I can say for sponsors, like for the ROI part of that, extra, the excursions and the other activities are so important because people, you as a sponsor should attend those because those are the times when you're not, people aren't expecting a sales pitch, but you can talk about what you do naturally and you can, I think the best parts of these conferences are the conversations you have.
Ravi Mittal (12:19.306)
Yes.
Brent Peterson (12:28.13)
that aren't in front of the expo hall and they don't feel like they're being sold to, but they're learning about the solution that you as a sponsor have. And those, especially for the run, people would come that when we did the run at Magento Imagine, they would come and they would, the sponsors would show up and then people would have conversations about, my solution does this for email or does this for marketing. and you get to learn a little bit about the person and that.
side of it is what really sells that particular product or service that the sponsors are doing.
Ravi Mittal (13:05.886)
Absolutely, mean, one of those days where you can be very salesy and get done with the business and stuff like that. One of those days where I have always felt like you throw a huge large party, which is not targeted and segmented and in the name of branding, you know, it would make sense, you know. So there are times are changing and we need to just definitely think about those things. I'm a small business owner still, right? So.
When I spend my dollars and money, right, and I go to these conferences, I'm like, my God, like it's getting expensive with TNL and everything. I definitely feel the pain, right? And I'm not saying that it's for all, right? I mean, if you're a large product company, you have to do things in the name of branding and everything. But these conferences, have a lot of agencies, lot of smaller companies, they come and attend the conference along with bigger companies, right? So we have to have, we have to think about them as well.
because sponsorship game is getting too expensive, you know, too expensive for small to mid -sized businesses.
Brent Peterson (14:13.25)
Yeah. so for, we switch a little bit to content. think that you have great content around education, around the business tracks. So there's content for developers. There's contents for merchants. There's content really there for everybody. And I think the only problem is you can't see everything all at once because there's so much to do and so much to see. You know, I think tell us a little bit about how you, how you kind of choose some of that, those talks and, and, and
Ravi Mittal (14:24.746)
Yes.
Ravi Mittal (14:33.354)
Yes.
Brent Peterson (14:43.278)
Why would a merchant attend?
Ravi Mittal (14:45.332)
Yeah.
Yes, absolutely. So when we have all these submissions, first of all, definitely we encourage people to come and submit their talks and we need to have talks from all walks of life, whether it is a tech vendor talking about the solution that they are passionate about, which is tax compliance or shipping, or whether it is the SI who is doing amazing jobs, supporting the merchant or whether the merchant themselves, they're trying to their revenue or increase efficiency in their.
bottom line. So whatever the case may be, once the submissions are received, include, and by the way, all these positions are volunteer positions, right? So we are not for profit, we are not doing this for profit. The people who are associated with it, so it's not our event. You are there as a part of the panel and you contributed with your time and so as you have seen other people have. So the selection is done purely by panel.
And these panels are from different companies and different, and they have their own skills, right? Like for business track, there will be a different set of people and for technical, there'll be a different set of people. And they contribute their time and they do the selection of these talks. We just need to make sure that we cover all areas, right? For example, AI is picking up, right? So how can I use AI to write Magento code, right? And take you 80%, 90 % there. So there was a talk on that.
For big enterprise world, e -commerce is not in silo. So there are many back office solutions and there are integration with that. So how can you monitor all the API? So there was a talk on that. So you have to have all kind of conversations covered, all kind of topics covered. In addition to that, there are some bigger topics around diversity and inclusion, DI, around in general for...
Ravi Mittal (16:45.846)
go green kind of thing. So we have had topics around that. We had women in e -commerce session. We had how can we be more conscious as a hosting provider to offset the carbon emission. So there are those bigger topics as well. So it has to be very well -rounded conference, and it has to be content for everyone.
Brent Peterson (17:09.944)
Yeah, I would always encourage any merchant, even if they're not on Magento, they should attend the conference because they can learn so much about what's happening in the industry. And I think the unique thing about Magento conferences that everything that's happening within Magento isn't in this kind of guard railed system, like say Shopify, you can literally do anything you want in Magento. So that means those solutions are out there are something that you, if you're a merchant, you're running
another platform, you can see those solutions that you could try to implement in yours. And hey, if it doesn't work, maybe you should think about switching to Adobe commerce or, or Magento.
Ravi Mittal (17:49.258)
Yeah, absolutely. And see, that's the beauty of Magento is that it is a very robust system. It has the most flexible system, right? So for internationalization, for multiple web properties, for B2B importation, for customization. And it is a, I call it, it's a rent versus lease play, right? So lease versus, sorry, buying and owning, right?
So for example, you're in an industry vertical and Shopify does not like you and they shut you down, right? You're done, right? I mean, you're leasing that system. You don't own it. What's the, let's say if you don't like a hosting provider or something goes wrong with DevOps or your site is down, you you can take that Magento instance and then you can go somewhere else, right? So you own that piece, right? Now, whenever you own a house, right? It comes with some extra, like you have to do your own landscape and you know, that's that.
So comes with some maintenance service, but that's the offset, right? That's the price that you pay for owning it versus renting it or leasing it.
Brent Peterson (18:56.844)
Yeah, and it has now become much better. I think Adobe has done a good job of slimming down the core so there isn't these big heavy lifts on keeping patches and updates. And you're exactly right. You own that code and that's yours. You can take it wherever you want. You own the customers. And I think one important thing that people don't realize that happens in Shopify is all that data gets shared amongst everybody else. So if you're a really big player, you are helping
the smaller players in a way to optimize their stores, because Shopify is going to use all that data to help everybody else optimize your stores. So you own that data on Magento.
Ravi Mittal (19:34.122)
Yep.
Ravi Mittal (19:38.228)
Yeah, there is also cannibalization that happens like with any of these platforms, right? Like when you buy on Amazon, then Amazon can look at your, they have data, they have analytics, so they can come up with their own Amazon products, right? And they cannibalize the ecosystem. Same thing with Shopify. When Shopify is looking at the apps, right? And because they're in so much of control, they add to their roadmap products and apps that are very commonly used because they have the visibility.
So it does cannibalize the ecosystem a little bit more. So I'm a big proponent of open source and I'm a big proponent of free market. And I do understand that people need to make money and that's why I love commercial open source. Like back in the day there was SourceForge and OS Commerce and there was no monetization game. was no, that kind of model doesn't work for corporations that are looking for support and those kind of things. So I love Magento ecosystem, how they position.
There is a free product for people who don't want to pay for it and there's a paid version of it that can afford to pay for it and you own it versus you lease it and rent it. You're in control of your own destiny.
Brent Peterson (20:47.032)
Yeah, the last comment I'll make about the conference is that it is incredibly welcoming. No matter where you come from or no matter what platform you're on, you will be welcomed at the conference. There's not a snooty version of clicks, as we say in the US, where nobody wants to talk to you because you're on a Shopify store, you're on a big commerce store. You will absolutely be welcomed into that community. You will be treated as an equal and you will learn something.
Ravi Mittal (20:58.218)
Yes.
Ravi Mittal (21:14.806)
Yep, We have our guy, Ben Marks, who is John Shopware, and he was, he did not have, he did not fall sick. was attending conference. So Shopware is welcome, Shopify merchants are welcome. If you think about it, 80 % of the content that is going to be there, right, they are not specific to Magento, Magento. Like if you're talking about tax compliance or marketing automation or API monitoring,
All of those apply to any platform, by the way. So I think there is definitely value for the people in e -commerce space to attend and join and get some nuggets out of this conference and take back home and apply to their businesses.
Brent Peterson (21:58.93)
I want to shift gears a little bit towards the end here and just talk about the Magento Association. So Magento Association is what helps support all the meat Magentos now across the world. Tell us a little bit about why somebody should join the Magento Association.
Ravi Mittal (22:17.686)
Association keeps the balance, right? Association keeps the balance in our ecosystem. So association is very much responsible for making sure that our open source product, which is free and which I think at least a of hundred thousand merchants are using it, that is supported. There is an ongoing consortium effort with Adobe that is going on. Adobe is
supporting that association as well. But there's a little bit of negotiation that, okay, will this feature be released to open source or not? And association puts that in check, right? That's one of the most important thing. Second thing is that there are definitely some fringe benefits associated with being a member of association, like getting coupons and discounts, but that's not the main reason to join the association. Association...
gives you much more visibility into open source world and arena where people are contributing to the open source roadmap. And it is ensuring that open source stays alive, right? That's the main reason. Open source needs to stay alive for the sake of so many people who are devs and their jobs and livelihood associated with it, the product that is being used by merchants, the agencies that are running businesses. So it is a...
It is a very important thing for us to keep Magento open source alive and offering that is technically free, alive, right? And that is of value to so many people.
Brent Peterson (23:55.79)
Yeah, I think I had a chance to log back into my old Magento forum account. And I think there's still something like 400 ,000 registered users on that. then of course, that's been around for 15 years now. I think that the one thing maybe people don't quite understand is that there needs to be an advocate for the open source product. And the Magento Association is that advocate that helps. And put some pressure back to Adobe
Ravi Mittal (24:18.986)
Yes.
Brent Peterson (24:24.77)
to say, hey, we have this vibrant community. We have a community that's around the open source product and we believe as a developer, you should certainly join Magento Association.
Ravi Mittal (24:32.821)
Yep.
Ravi Mittal (24:38.632)
Absolutely and there was at point of time there was conversation about forking it and giving the whole open source to associations if there's no and let's say not that that is not happening but if that happened we need an organization or association that advocates and that takes care of open source because that's a sizable community that we're talking about and we need to make sure that stays alive and that grows and flourishes.
Brent Peterson (25:06.658)
That's perfect. Ravi, as we close out, give everybody a chance to do a shameless plug about anything you'd like to plug. What would you like to shamelessly plug today?
Ravi Mittal (25:18.046)
I'm not a sales guy, by the way, by no shape or form. I don't have salespeople in the organization for that matter, right? So I'm more a natural organic kind of guy. So the farthest I can go being shameless in this pitch is that, Just attend Meet Magenta Florida, which is the next event that is coming. It's going to be a lot of fun, a of learning.
and lot of excitement. We are looking forward to it. There will be some new components to this conference, just the way last year we added workshop by Mark Shust We are planning right now to make it even more bigger and more meaningful for people who are attending conference. So just, for your own sake, come and attend the conference and come and contribute to
Brent Peterson (26:06.968)
Yeah, and I will say it is such a fun conference. I've been every year now and I would also encourage people to join or to come in and attend Meet Magenta Florida. Ravi Mattel is the CEO founder of Rave Digital and Headworks or you run Headworks. So thank you so much for being here today.
Ravi Mittal (26:24.746)
Yep. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Brent. Thank you. Appreciate it.