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The goal of this podcast is to guide and empower you on your journey toward financial independence.
Glenn (00:02.8)
Today, my guest is Chris Moran with Three Peaks Capital. Welcome, Chris.
Kris Morin (00:18.007)
Thank you Glenn, glad to be here.
Glenn (00:20.688)
Yeah, so I'm excited to hear your story and I guess if you could just start out with how you got started in real estate.
Kris Morin (00:29.015)
Yeah, I know you and I were just talking a few moments ago about kind of what we're up to today. I'll bring it back to the roots. I think the genesis of the journey is always interesting for a lot of folks and I like to hear it myself. You know, so for me, you know, coming out of college, I was actually a high school science teacher. A lot of people don't actually know that about me. You know, but the thing is, what hit me right away was how much I couldn't afford. You know, I felt like I had this giant sucker sticker on my forehead, you know.
I followed the blueprint. I went to school, got the best grades. I was a great student athlete, got into the best programs. And I come out with a master's in education from a top 15 program nationally making, drum roll, $36 ,000 a year. And for anybody who's from New England, my idea of a fancy day was going to Friendly's. And that's a step up from fast food, if you're just not familiar. I mean, it's probably a step down from like an Applebee's, but that's all I could afford. And -
Glenn (01:09.776)
haha
Kris Morin (01:26.007)
You know, that kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. You know, I wanted more for that for myself and for my loved ones and for my family. And, you know, as much as I loved teaching, I knew that wasn't going to allow me to live the kind of life I wanted to live. And, you know, so early in my years, I think a lot of young folks really are just chasing title and money. So that's what I did. You know, I was lucky that, you know, I was a smart guy. I was well -networked and, you know, I'll spare you the details, but...
When I said I'm leaving teaching, a lot of folks said, what else are you going to do? You're just a science teacher. And I was like, well, I read about this job, these consulting firms, they send you back to business school and these guys are the highest paid in the industry and they could travel over the world and get the best business education. That's where I'm going to go. And people would say, they only hire Ivy leaguers. They're never going to hire you. Well, fast forward, I got in with a firm called Accenture. They're one of the bigger management companies in the world today. And you know,
This, you know, it's about 2007. I'm now in the business world and, and I was doing well. You know, I was lucky that even though a lot of what I was doing was new to me, I was getting the best training. and a lot of that work aligned to my strengths. So I was climbing the management ranks very, very quickly there and the great recession hit. Right. And over my first three years in that corporate journey, there's kind of, I would say there's, there's kind of two things that really happened that that started all of this. And that's kind of what I'm building up to one, you know, I was making.
triple what I was as a teacher or more at the time. So I'm 26, 27, I'm in the low six figures doing well for my age at that time, but I'm burning out. I was on a plane 50 weeks out of the year. I had more friends in other cities than I did back home. Couldn't have a steady relationship. And I knew I couldn't do that for 30 or 40 or however many years it would take to set myself up for retirement. And I knew I couldn't save my way there. And then I watched the Great Recession rip, you know,
folks half their net worth out from underneath them. And I was like, man, there's gotta be a better way. You can't work and save your way into retirement, right? And so that's when, you know, I really set out on this journey to figure out like how do the ultra wealthy, how do they invest? How do they protect their wealth? How do they grow their wealth? And, you know, no matter how many strings you pull, they all kind of lead back to the same thing. And it's real estate, private equity and traditional private equity are the two that really rise to the top. And so, you know, that's when the real estate journey was really born.
Kris Morin (03:51.031)
And so now we're talking late 2009 and we're at the height of the recession. I didn't know at the time that it was a great golden opportunity for me. It would be a great launch pad, but I was like, I'm doing this real estate thing. Started throwing courses on credit cards and joining masterminds trying to figure this thing out. you know, I think I was three months in, hung a bandit sign and got a call from a contractor and said, Hey, do you buy houses? And I was like, yeah, I didn't even know what I was doing. I really didn't know what I was doing.
put this single family home under contract and I had yet to see even a purchase and sale agreement. So I didn't even know how to fill it out, let alone raise the money, but I was off to the races. And that was my first deal. I got into flipping single family homes and I was sitting at a Starbucks maybe a week later and I decide, here's some guys joking about the stock market. They take a wicked whack. It was clear to me that these guys were pretty wealthy with the sizable hits that they had taken.
And so I made some joke about like, Hey, something stupid, like you should have invested in a real estate. Well, it opened the door to this conversation and it turns out this guy was the CEO and sole co -founder of the largest competitor of StumpHub, you know, the ticket sort of trading platform. And we formed a relationship. He became my funder and very quickly we started to put down, he basically wanted to put a million dollars a month on the street to flip homes. So.
Glenn (05:07.024)
Yeah.
Kris Morin (05:19.735)
That was really the genesis of my career. I'm rambling at this point, but that's how I got started. I pitched a guy at Starbucks.
Glenn (05:25.136)
So let's, before we go any further with that, so he, how many properties had you flipped up to that point before he's zero? And he gave you a million, just committed a million dollars a month?
Kris Morin (05:33.335)
Zero.
0.
Yeah, but that first, so let's break those numbers down. So in this particular market where I was buying, and at that point in time, 2009 foreclosures, I was buying houses for $65K. You put 30 into them and then you sell them for, yep, yep. And then you sell them for $140K, $150K. And this is around Hartford specifically. If this was Southern Connecticut, it'd be way, way more. But these are your common flips that you're doing like a $20 ,000 profit margin at the time.
Glenn (05:53.296)
In Connecticut?
Kris Morin (06:09.591)
But I just started flipping houses. I use this guy for proof of funds to build a network with the best foreclosure teams in the state. There's really only one or two offices that were handling all of the state's foreclosures. And you can figure it out. You run an MLS report and you basically sort it by foreclosures sold in the last six months and zip codes that you like. And you'll find the lion's share of deals, the 80 -20 principle always, it just seems to apply to everything.
80 % of the deals that you're looking for are sold by the same three people. And so you go call them, right? And so, you know, I was putting houses under contract as fast as I could find them. And then I was just off to the races. Now, the only challenge for me became, you know, I was traveling on a plane 50 weeks out of the year. How do I, how do I scale my business? How do I monitor all the projects that were going? And so I had a lot of growing pains early on, but I started mentoring college students at a nearby university. And so -
They started giving me free interns and I would give them assignments to go check up on projects or handle incoming calls from my marketing. And so I found a way to operationalize and run my business while I was on a plane. And then I said, Hey, like I'm in Detroit every single week, you know, for the next six months, why don't I build a team and start flipping houses in Detroit? Or then it became Richmond, Virginia. Right. And so I started sort of standing this up and sort of franchising it, if you will, kind of in multiple markets around the U S this went on for probably close to five years. You know, fast forward to around.
Glenn (07:39.216)
And did you have, you had, that was your full -time job at that point?
Kris Morin (07:44.215)
No, I was a business consultant for Accenture. I was working 60 -hour weeks easy just outside of real estate. I would probably sleep three hours a night. I'd come back to my hotel late at night in some other city, follow up with contractors, talk to new sellers. I did whatever I could nights and weekends. When you're in your late 20s, early 30s, you can survive on three or four hours a night. I'm 42 now. That doesn't work anymore.
Glenn (07:46.96)
Wow.
Glenn (08:12.336)
Yeah. So let's, let's talk about that real quick. So if you had all these moving parts and I guess the main funder was the stub hub guy, right?
Kris Morin (08:25.495)
And it branched out from there, but he was kind of the start of it all. Yep.
Glenn (08:27.152)
Yeah. And then the, and you're 20 years old, you're traveling. Why didn't you just decide that you were leaving the W -2 and just start focusing on that full time?
Kris Morin (08:44.215)
That's a great question. I guess I was smart enough to know that it potentially wouldn't or couldn't last forever. And I was never really in it to replace my job. I think a lot of people are too quick to say, I'm going to quit my W -2 and go into real estate. I'm a big proponent of adding income streams, not taking them away. Right? Remember, my motivation was the Great Recession and burning out.
Glenn (08:54.192)
Mm -hmm.
Kris Morin (09:09.047)
I wanted to make more money faster, save and reinvest. So I didn't want to eliminate the six figure income that I was already making as long as I could do the two in tandem. So that was always the goal for me. I will say earlier, I kind of skipped a detail in there. About a year in, there were an unfortunate series of events that led to, how do I shorten this?
I had brought in on a contractor that I wasn't paying attention to. He was Robin Peter and paying Paul. He got tied up into a lawsuit that I got pulled into. And that first lender that I had mentioned to you called the notes due on a few projects and it pretty much bankrupted me. I mean, I was sitting at the table with a bankruptcy attorney figuring out how I was going to keep my life together. But ultimately I didn't file because that would have meant that I would have been walking away from my investors, but I did lose all of my properties.
You know, I was 30 years old, lost all my properties, even lost my job at that time. I was no longer with Accenture. And so I was starting from ground zero with virtually nothing. And I had to rebuild from there. So that's another story for another day. But you know, it didn't come without its growing pains. And I think that was also, you know, to answer your question about, you know, why didn't I leave? You know, that experience too taught me like, hey, this -
things can happen that are outside of your control that could make this all go away. Like don't, don't put all your eggs in one basket. And so, you know, I, I came back all the wiser and I built my, my business the second time around twice as fast. And I would say, with much less risk, I, you know, I was eyes wide open. It's, you know, you, you always, you make more money when you learn where the landmines are. Right. And so, you know, I did that for another five years or so things were really going good, but you know, it was a new market then, you know, the great, we were well past the great recession.
There was a time when you could throw a rock and hit a foreclosure. And it got to a point where there weren't as many properties available. So you were bidding against on fewer properties against more people. And it's kind of like our current market today. Prices, it drives up prices, right? And so your margins are going down. And when you're flipping houses, there's a ton of risk already baked into that process. And so margins were going down, risk was going up and anybody who's babysat.
Glenn (11:20.304)
Yeah.
Kris Morin (11:27.895)
contractors, that's exactly what it is. I burned out and I remember hanging up the phone. I was in Virginia for work, hung up the phone. This contractor was making my life hell in Connecticut and I could almost, I was feeling like, like, you know, 2010 was going to happen to me all over again if I, if I didn't just get out of this. So I actually stopped real estate for almost a year. I let all the current projects run themselves out, sold off their properties, made my profits.
And that's when I came back and started buying multifamily. So I kind of had this moment where I said, this isn't passive income, right? This isn't why I got into real estate. I'm working another job. I'm a marketing specialist. I'm a salesman. I'm a project manager. I'm all these things that I don't want to be. And I wasn't building real wealth. I was making a lot of money, but I wasn't building real wealth. So that was really, you know, what ultimately pushed me into multifamily. And that's, that's when my net worth really skyrocketed. And that's when my life changed. And that's about 2016 through today.
Glenn (12:22.0)
Yeah, I think that there is a common theme with a lot of guys that are flipping and they kind of come to the same conclusion. But what I do think happens with flipping houses is that you're able to build the skill of managing construction, understanding how construction works, also super high level of stress. Like anytime I think about flipping a house, I just start stressing myself out.
Kris Morin (12:41.303)
Yeah.
Glenn (12:51.344)
And, but I would say that you, you tend to learn how to deal with it, but then also put systems in place to maybe have good partners that you're working with to help get you to the next, position and, and then managing investor capital as well. So it's, it's a great, I still somewhat have the idea that maybe I'll flip houses one day, but it's, it's one of those things that, it's, everybody I've,
Kris Morin (12:51.799)
Ha ha.
Glenn (13:21.264)
talk to that have done it successfully, they end up saying you're just better off buying rental property. But.
Kris Morin (13:27.735)
Yeah, you know, I'll tell you two things. I mean, I look back and I wish, you know, the gurus convince you, you got to start off wholesaling or flipping houses and build up the income to buy multifamily. And the reality is you could start from day one at multifamily. So, you know, I wish I had done that. But, you know, fast forward, I never would have known that I would have gone on to buy hundreds of units of my own and then start this commercial private equity company that acquires, you know, hundreds of units across the U S and when you're doing this.
you know, these construction projects and rehabilitation projects at scale, you know, all of that experience managing multiple, you know, rehab projects in multiple markets across the U S suddenly came into play and it was invaluable. And so I was probably able to avoid a lot of mistakes and make a lot more money than somebody who, you know, went and attended a mastermind. It's called themselves a syndicator the next day and tries to oversee a hundred unit rehab projects. Like you're bound to really make some mistakes there, but I think, you know,
Having managed hundreds of units on my own before ever, you know, stepping into the commercial space, having managed dozens and dozens of rehab projects, I think ultimately that set me up for success with 3Peaks Cap.
Glenn (14:35.28)
And also with the flipping houses, there's constant negotiation. Like everything has to be negotiated because it's construction costs, the purchase price, like it's all at the very end. If you don't do it right, you're doing it for free. You know, so it's you build that second, you know, that muscle of negotiation. And I think that's my business partner. He kind of bootstrapped his way up.
Kris Morin (14:42.987)
yeah.
Glenn (15:04.08)
I came from the W2, saved a lot of money and then left my W2, but he actually bootstrapped it kind of like you're saying. And he's great at managing construction and negotiating. And that's the thing. I'm like, that's your deal. And I focus on the operations because that's my W2 corporate background. And that's kind of how it worked out for us too. So.
Kris Morin (15:30.935)
Yeah, you gotta align yourself to your strengths and your interests, you're better off for it, yeah.
Glenn (15:35.6)
Yeah, so now you're starting to buy multifamily. Tell us about the first multifamily deal you bought and how that started.
Kris Morin (15:47.607)
Yeah. you know, I, gosh, it's almost too hard to remember that very first multifamily with eight. So, you know, back when I was flipping and I would say I bought a few distressed three families, I would rehab them and sell them off to landlords stabilized. Why I didn't refinance them and keep them. I don't know. Burr wasn't really a thing back then. I can't tell you how much money I left on the table by selling these things off. I just, I get my hair stands on them when I talk about it, but.
You know, I think, you know, I remember, I was just talking to a local broker. I was just having a conversation with, I met a guy locally in town. I think we're once again at a coffee shop. Maybe I should hang out at coffee shops more cause that's kind of a theme here. And, he mentioned this distressed four family, you know, down the road that he had, he was going to be listing it soon. And he's like, Hey, do you want to take, I was on, I was on, on my way to like, I was getting a coffee. Cause I was on my way to go to a family event. I was already in a rush and I was like,
man, I don't know if I want to go. I don't really feel like looking at a distressed four family right now, but I was like, hell with it. Why not? Right? So I went with him and I was like, this is, you know, this is a pretty, it's a C -class area, but like, this is a good market. It's a good spot. Like this house. And then there you go. You know, I, I bought this, this four family. the more I learned the seller had a very large, he was a, he was a big property owner himself. He had a large tax bill he wanted to pay off. And so.
You know, he wasn't hurting for money and he wasn't looking to retire off this one sale. So he was motivated to let it go. It was probably worth 220. I offered him 180 and I got it. Right. So I was like, okay. And then, that's when I was really off to the races and buying, you know, residential multifamily and, you know, for me, I was kind of had a rule of four. I didn't like to go under four units unless it was really a superb opportunity.
You know, and you know, people all the time, I think a lot of people make the mistake or at least I think it's a mistake. They come to me and say, Chris, I'm going to start small with a duplex. I want to start lower risk. What do you think? I'm like, well, that's more risk, right? Like more units, the better. And it's, it's people like, that's a total like mine mindset shift for them. And I'm like, think about it in most markets today, you buy a duplex, you know, the, the two units barely cover, you know, you're barely profiting at all. Right. And so if one of those things go vacant or one of those tenants isn't paying,
Glenn (17:44.688)
Yeah. Yep.
Kris Morin (18:02.551)
Now you're dipping into your own personal pocket. I never have to do that with a four family. So I was told, and it's easier to get financing for a four unit than a two, but you know, I digress. So, you know, for me, I kind of had a rule of four. I always kind of bought in that range and I scaled up really quick. You know, I went back to, you know, I had a lot of my own capital, but I always like to keep money on hand for emergencies and for reserves. So I built this muscle for raising capital locally through, you know,
events in town, reaching out, whatever. And I would raise money from other investors to go buy these units. And it wasn't giving away equity. So I was only basically offering high interest loans to investors and cashing them out in three to five years, but they were doing great. They were getting 10 to 12%. And the value to me was, you know, I retained all of the equity. So I, you know, I made my first million in multifamily. I remember in my first 14 months, I'll never forget it. And it, you know, it's, and it was a fraction of the work.
I was flipping a bunch of houses and that's the light bulb just went off. I'm like, I'm on the right track. I'm just going to scale this thing as far as I can go.
Glenn (19:03.184)
About what year was that?
Kris Morin (19:06.295)
That was 2016, 2017. Yeah.
Glenn (19:06.416)
Alright.
Glenn (19:10.512)
Yeah, so it's funny because it seems that the debt holders at that time still fresh in their mind. 2008, they're like, look, I'll take 12 % and I'll get just get paid 12%. It's great. And then it turned into the equity guys, which is a good way to invest as well. But it turned into where everybody wanted to be equity because they see the market going up.
I can kind of see now where there's more debt. People were paying 12 to 13 % on deals for debt holders, and we're starting to come across a lot more people. And I think it's more of the risk appetite with the cycle of the market. And it's just interesting. That's why I ask the year. But the thing about the occupancy is the craziest part,
is that very rarely do you come across a large multifamily deal that's 50 % vacant. And if it was, it would probably be a deal like you'd have a lot of bootstrap work, but at the same time, you're probably getting a big discount on it. And with like a duplex, you could easily find a duplex with 50 % occupancy. And it'd probably be the same price as if it was full. So there's not a lot of upside.
Kris Morin (20:35.383)
Yeah.
That's right. That's right.
Glenn (20:39.696)
You know, so for a lot of work that you might have to do, you know, so.
Kris Morin (20:42.583)
Yeah, that's a great point. Yep, that is so true. And the people who tell me they're going to live in one unit and rent out the other, I'm like, my God, you're doomed. Do not do that.
Glenn (20:55.664)
I have one story. I'll tell it. I might have already said it on the podcast, but I had, I was looking in one area and not a great area. It was, it was on the, the, it's still in the middle of gentrification, but I would say that there's like dope dealers on the corners. And, I found myself, I got under contract and I was so excited. I'm like, man, I'm about to be, you know, house hacking and.
And I went there with one of my mentors and I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to, I want to show you this house. And I, I ended up showing it to them. And there was like this random guy just staring at us the whole time, like on the corner. And you could totally tell it was like a dope dealer. And, and I thought to myself, is this what I want to put myself in the middle of? You know, I have a, my fiance at the time walks the dog every day. It's like, we're not even going to be able to walk our dog outside because of this situation.
And yeah, and for us, it seems like the duplexes generally are not in the greatest areas. And when they are in the good areas, they're just like, don't even make sense for the location. So it's the house hacking thing is, you know, there's creative ways of doing it, but I think for, I guess, a certain markets. So.
Kris Morin (22:06.295)
Right. Yep.
Kris Morin (22:16.663)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, I think a lot of people too are too quickly that, and I'm not saying this is you, but I think a lot of investors, whether that's LPs or potential operators who are thinking about jumping into the game, they're too quick to say, you know, the harder C -class areas, I'm not, I would never touch a D. Like I don't look at war zones, but you know, like a traditional C -class area, like that's not for me, but that's, that's where a lot of the money is, right? You know, I make a tremendous amount of money. you know, I make more money just off a couple of units than.
some of my executive friends, you know, make an entire year on a salary just, just, you know, off a dozen units in the C -class areas. So, yeah, I think more people should look into it. I think people are also too quick to judge section eight. You know, it's, it's, it's a great strategy. You know, for me, when COVID hit, you know, I had a pretty healthy balance of section eight across my portfolio. I was getting guaranteed income. You know, I did very well. I had one of my best years ever in COVID and I had landlord friends who were
struggling and working with banks to restructure debt because they were about to file bankruptcy. So, you know, I just think I just put that out there because I think a lot of folks should look further into them to see if it could be for them.
Glenn (23:23.952)
Definitely. So I guess let's go into what you're up to today and your operations.
Kris Morin (23:31.015)
Yeah. Yeah. So today, you know, we're really more focused on, you know, the commercial side of the business. So, you know, I stood up a new company, Three Peaks Capital, which is the brand that most folks are familiar with today. And, you know, we are, so there's myself and I no longer work. So my most recently, I was executive director for a $5 billion line of business in Connecticut. I've since left. I now run strategy and investor relations full time for Three Peaks. My
Managing partner is an attorney, a tax and estate planning attorney for high net worth families in Seattle. And then we have, you know, we have a combination of full -time staff and contingent staff who work underneath us on the underwriting and acquisition side, as well as the asset management reporting side. But, you know, we're primarily focused on your C and B class assets and markets across the Midwest. We look for your traditional value add projects. You know, we're going in, we're renovating units, we're increasing rents within
within reason, we're finding ways to decrease or stabilize expenses and we're driving significant profits in the process. We've historically acquired in the 50 to 60 unit range, so we're small enough on the unit size in terms of the assets that we're acquiring that we're not really forced to compete with the institutional guys. And we're of course, we're buying assets that are much too big for the...
the smaller landlord. So it's kind of a sweet spot that allows us to be much more competitive and acquire more units. The downside of acquiring something in the 50 to 60 unit range, and I'm sure you're kind of familiar with this, is there's not enough profit in the rental income to afford full -time onsite staff. You really have to be buying 90 to 100 units to do that. And so you're partnering with third -party property management companies who are
spending half their time managing your property and the other half their time managing the other property. And so, you know, that can be a challenge, but that's certainly something that we've learned to overcome and we have operations and systems for managing that effectively. But, you know, that's a strategy we continue to lean on pretty hard. We've been doing really well. Our investors like it. We're very bullish about the Midwest, but we are also looking to push to the Pacific Northwest and to the surrounding suburbs of Seattle where, you know, we see a lot of growth happening there. And my partner, Nick, is there.
Kris Morin (25:51.703)
We're going to be vertically integrating and establishing operations in Seattle this year, so we're really excited for the new growth.
Glenn (25:57.712)
So what was the reasoning for going to Seattle?
Kris Morin (26:03.223)
Yeah. So, you know, I'll try to be short. Like I'm a real data geek at the end of the day. I'm kind of a glorified economist when you kind of look at what I've done historically for a living. But, you know, I think the data never lies, right? It's easy to get emotional and you know, the Midwest has a lot of tailwinds, a lot of things that are making it a very favorable market right now. But I think some of those, some of those market forces have a shorter shelf life than some of the forces that have been long.
standing up the major growth markets of the West and the Northeast like a Boston or Seattle. And we were very bullish on Boston as well. And so when you look back at data through time, for example, if you were to benchmark all the top markets in terms of real growth and asset and real estate prices, if you were to, and there's, you know, I'll give Neil Bawa credit, right? Neil Bawa, he calls himself the data science geek, but the data doesn't lie, right? And he did this massive analysis where,
They basically looked at millions of data points over a 25 year period in markets all across the US to say what correlated most strongly to real estate performance and future real estate performance. No surprise that the usual suspects emerge, right? Income growth, job growth, population growth, and median household, home and condo value was actually the other factor there. And you can also look at...
you know, what was the benchmark measure for the very best growth markets? And so I'll just give you a couple of quick examples. For population growth, it was 11 and a half percent for cities of similar size. Seattle grew at 15%. You know, for income growth, it was 38 % and Seattle grew at 162%. For median home value growth, it was 58%. Seattle grew at 266%. Right? And so,
You know, again, the data doesn't lie. So historically it's been a great market and you got to ask yourself, do we believe it's going to continue to be a good market? The data would suggest so. but then you also look at, right. What are the most, sort of prominent profitable, and industries and which industries have the strongest outlook today? Right. It's, it's big tech. And so you've got, you know, Seattle is, is founded on and stood stands on, you know, big tech companies. So.
Glenn (27:59.152)
NANI?
Kris Morin (28:22.551)
Without really going too much deeper than that, there's a lot of reason to believe there's a lot of strength in Seattle. A lot of people might argue there's a ceiling somewhere. Certainly, you know, that growth, it's not going to be parabolic like you're seeing in the Austen's and the Dallas's now, right? Because they've kind of already gone through that hyper growth cycle. But when you look at like a New York City or a Boston, they might have ebb and flow, but there's a reason why billions of dollars of capital are just waiting to get deployed into those cities when, you know, at a moment's notice. It's because
The real big investors know, bless you, it's growth that you can count on, right? It's predictable growth, it's dependable growth, and you know it's always going to be there. So it's a great hedge. There's really strong upside. These are markets where you're going to see lower cashflow. These are more upside plays, but we feel very strongly about Seattle and we're excited to go build a footprint there.
Glenn (29:59.92)
So my first, I think the first question that I think a lot of people would ask would be, what about the landlord tenant act or the tenant laws and everything? How do you get around that?
Kris Morin (30:14.679)
Yeah. So there's no denying there's more challenges there, right? You know, I think it's just, I don't think, I know it's just in how you factor it into your underwriting and understanding that regulatory environment and knowing how it's going to impact your business plan. You know, you're not exactly going to go in and say, Hey, in the first six months, we're going to replace half the tenants or we're going to raise all the rents. And if they don't like it, they're getting out, right? Like I guess what I'm getting at is.
you're not going to stabilize an asset in 12 to 18 months. You're looking more like 18, 24, 36 months because there are rules in place that say you have to give them a minimum of six months notice. And if they don't leave in some cities around the U S you actually have to pay them. You know, there's some fixed dollar amount to get out. And so just knowing those rules, you factored into your underwriting. So we have, you know, the same way you have line items for capex and operating reserves, et cetera. We have line items for, you know, regulatory costs. We have line items for cash for keys.
We know how to extend our stabilization timeline. So none of those things are insurmountable hurdles. Right. And so it's just knowing the market, having the expertise and knowing how to navigate it. And again, I kind of remind some folks who even question me, I live in Connecticut. It's the same as Washington. We're a blue state. Just like Massachusetts, they favor the tenant. I'm lucky if I can get a tenant out in four months. I'm lucky.
But I've built a fortune in Connecticut, right? It doesn't mean folks aren't investing in the blue states. Blue states are actually the biggest and best growth markets in the United States. So there's no denying the market power there. But again, I think it's just understanding how to factor those things into your business plan.
Glenn (31:54.48)
Yeah, so yeah, no, it's it's solid. And I was also thinking that the ones that figure out the problem is are the ones that get paid through it. You know, if you can calculate for it and then, you know, you create this asset that has a great, you know, delinquency rate, whoever is going to be the end buyer will pay a premium because you're in a premium market.
Kris Morin (31:54.519)
Is that a fair answer?
Glenn (32:23.408)
And they'll see that there's not a lot of delinquency and that would, you know, as a, as a, you know, they won't have to do the heavy lifting to get rid of the, the rougher tenants or the tenants that aren't paying.
Glenn (32:40.272)
Cool. So I guess, where can people find you?
Kris Morin (32:46.999)
You know me, I'm very active on social media. I'm super responsive to anybody that has a question. So, you know, if they want to find me on social media, LinkedIn, Facebook, you know, I'm always happy to engage with them there. You know, they can always email me, chris at threepeakscap .com. That's chriswithak. And then there's our website. It's, you know, threepeakscap .com, not capital, it's cap, threepeakscap .com. We have loads of free downloads. You know, there's a resource section. There's all kinds of free downloads.
For folks who want to learn more about the industry, more about syndications and apartments in general, they can join our newsletter. So there's lots of ways to get in touch.
Glenn (33:25.456)
Awesome. Well, we'll put all that in our show notes and you'll be able to reach out that way. And Chris, thanks for being on the show.
Kris Morin (33:34.071)
My pleasure, thanks for having me.
Glenn (33:35.728)
All right, thank you.