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Becoming Lucy is real life stories with real people where real change happens. It's where healing meets humour, and where Lucy and Hana turn life's chaos into connection.
Hana (00:16)
Hello and welcome to Becoming Lucy with me, Hannah.
Lucy (00:21)
me Lucy. So what would you do if you thought you'd seen your best friend's death years before it happened?
Hana (00:32)
and then you lose another friend, another death that our guest says she'd already seen.
Lucy (00:37)
Because losing two people you love is one thing and trying to understand why you had these visions beforehand is something else entirely.
Hana (00:46)
And for today's guest, that grief became part of a story that led to a crack addiction and in the year 2000, rehab.
Lucy (00:55)
But there's a lot that happened before we get there. There was unfortunately childhood sexual abuse, not being believed, becoming a wife at 18 and a mother at 19, and then escaping an abusive marriage with two young children.
Hana (01:11)
And somewhere in this story, another experience we're going to ask her about, something she describes as demonic possession.
Lucy (01:18)
Now, we've got so many questions already. What did our guest, Summer See, does she tell anyone? And when she says possession, what actually happened?
Hana (01:30)
And after everything that has happened, where is summer now? We'll be talking about sexual violence, domestic abuse, and addiction today. So please take care whilst listening.
Lucy (01:40)
And Summer, welcome to Becoming Lucy.
Sommer (01:43)
Hi Hannah, hi Lacey.
Hana (01:45)
I was so grateful that you're here ⁓ and we love speaking to incredible people like yourself and we always want to let our listeners know how we got to know you, do we know you, are you a stranger to us and actually you dropped into our DMs didn't you? So tell us what made you want to come on to Becoming Lucy today?
Sommer (02:01)
I did.
so at the background of all and any abuse is always silence and fear of speaking out. And I've spent many years where I'm not afraid to say it, but because of society's ⁓ expectations and discomfort, ⁓ for so many years, I'm I'm in my 50s and for many, many years these things weren't allowed to be
spoken about and if they were you just weren't believed anyway. So I with everything going on in the world, I thought, do you know what? It's a really good time to do this. ⁓ and I kind of spoke to the family and they were all like, Yeah, go on then. So I thought I would.
Lucy (02:49)
and I'm really looking for...and it sounds not nice to say that I'm really looking forward to it, but I'm looking forward to hear your side today. And I'm sure a lot of our listeners with that intro thinking, wow, what is gonna happen? So, let's start at the beginning then. What was life growing up for you, Summer? What was it like?
Hana (02:50)
Aww.
Yes.
Sommer (03:03)
Yeah.
Okay.
⁓ my normal was was very different to other people's normal. So I had a complete contradiction. I had ⁓ an amazing life where where I grew up in a big house and we had money, but I also had an older family member who raped me from the time I was eight to 13. So
Hana (03:34)
Wow.
Sommer (03:37)
on the outside, I had lots of people very envious of the way my life appeared to be, and having no clue about what was really going on in my life.
Hana (03:52)
That contrast then, and like with most of our guests, a lot of this information is brand new for us as well, and that's sort of blown me away, the fact that you were raped for all of those years, and then it started at eight. I can't even, I don't want to imagine that at all. For you, the first eight years of your life then sounds like they were idyllic, and then what happened at eight then, and what happened with this old
Sommer (04:07)
Yes.
Hana (04:22)
family member.
Sommer (04:24)
So it was just a case of ⁓ he was babysitting one night and he asked me to dance for him. And then he started to grope me. And that was really sort of the first time it built from there. So it started with the groping and then it started with full-blown sexual contact. And I was just, I honestly thought I was being punished. Back in those days.
Used to get slapped if you were bad. And probably for the first couple of years, I mean, it seems stupid to say now, but my brain could not compute what it was, what was going on. And there was the whole, you know, I'll hurt other members of your family if you say anything, as sort of the baseline for the abuse. And so I had no frame of reference. I thought I was naughty. I thought I'd done something wrong, and this was my punishment.
Lucy (04:55)
Hmm.
Hana (05:22)
And how often was this happening?
Sommer (05:25)
I mean, luckily, it sounds a bizarre thing to say. It probably happened less than ten times. But with that, it's more, and again, this sounds like a very strange thing to say. It's more the the threat of it happening and not knowing when it's gonna happen, because occasionally it would, but the rest of the time, it was like life was normal.
Hana (05:42)
Yeah.
Lucy (05:43)
Mmm.
Hana (05:46)
Mm.
Sommer (05:54)
And so you just end up living scared all the time, just scared.
Hana (05:59)
Hmm.
It's like that, that's actually almost worse, because mentally, you're just, like you said, living in fear, never knowing when this family member's gonna come over. I I assume they didn't live with you, they were just becoming over to dinners and parties or did, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lucy (06:15)
Bye.
I take it was, yeah, a close family member to be that close. Yeah, it's not like a distant cousin, you know, in the hills.
Sommer (06:20)
It was a close family member.
I mean ⁓ in my family, we had close family within a couple of doors. So yeah. So
Hana (06:30)
Yeah, that's how close it was geographically. And also, like you said, that fear of never knowing when they were gonna take advantage of you. And what did that do to you then as a child? So the first eight years of your life, describe how you were compared to eight onwards.
Sommer (06:50)
according to my mother, I always danced to the beat of my own drum. And so I was I was literally quite happy just la la la la la with my way through life. ⁓ I had my younger brother when I was four and a half, and I literally fell in love with him the minute he was born. It he was just lovely. And so I just had very ordinary, I've got some amazing memories of.
Playing in the garden with tea sets on a bright summer's day. And I remember making mud pies in the back garden. and my the male members of my family used to go fishing off of the seafront in Brighton. And I used to be left at the gutting room on the beach, and I used to just wave them off. So I've got these wonderful memories. I've had to do a lot of therapy though, to remember the good memories.
Lucy (07:36)
Aww.
Hana (07:44)
Mm.
Sommer (07:46)
Because the dark stuff just so overtakes every single memory that trying to get past that, it's almost like it's a brick wall. Every time you try looking backwards, you kind of hit that, and then you kind of want to stop thinking about it, to be honest. You just go, no, I won't do that. Luckily, as the years have gone by though, I've managed to look back and see it in perspective for where it
actually laid and not the psychological impact it had on me, if that makes sense.
Hana (08:21)
Mm.
And physically as well, to be a child going through that, know, were there anything, I don't know how to say this, it sounds graphic, but I'm just, the physical side of it, and then your parents and, you know, maybe the females in your family, was there anything that was noticed about that, you know, or was it very easily hidden? And because you were threatened with it, you obviously didn't want to say anything.
I'm assuming, sorry, I'm just putting words, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.
Sommer (08:51)
Yeah, I mean that's okay. I for all the years it was going on and I reported it at 13. I started displaying, which is normal, ⁓ bizarre behaviours. ⁓ which hardly under you know totally understandable, but ⁓ I was asked if there was anything I would like to say.
Lucy (09:06)
Right.
Sommer (09:21)
⁓ by a school teacher. And randomly, just out of nowhere, I hadn't intended to say anything. And I just went, This is what's happening to me. And the weird thing was, they went, this is a really serious allegation. And that I understood. By this point, my own sexuality was starting to kick in, the hormones had kicked in. And all of a sudden, I realized what it was.
Lucy (09:23)
Right.
Sommer (09:51)
That had been happening to me. And I knew I needed it to stop. Just as simple as that. I just wanted it to stop. And had no concept of just how badly this might explode my life by saying something. So I said something, and my logical brain went, right, everyone's gonna jump in, they're gonna sort it out, it'll all start, it'll be amazing. It's so far from what actually happened.
Lucy (09:53)
Right.
Sommer (10:20)
So I said something and nothing happened. For weeks, nothing. They just sent me back to class. And I came into school the next day, still nothing. About, I don't know, about three weeks later, I'd actually forgotten I'd said anything. I thought maybe I'd dreamt like I'd wanted to do it, but didn't actually do it. And somebody was sent from the headmistress's office to come and collect me from a class.
Hana (10:40)
Yeah.
Sommer (10:50)
And I thought, no, what have I done wrong? Must have done something. And I'm walking to the headmistress's office thinking, I don't remember doing anything. I don't know what I'm in trouble for. And I get there, there's a social worker there. And they say, Right, you said this to us weeks ago. And in an instant, I I literally tell this social worker, and they rip me out of school and rush me to social services office.
Where they sit and say to me, Now I've got to go to the hospital. Then they drag me to the hospital and my head's just spinning. I I'm so confused. It's so out of the blue. I've had no warning. And it wasn't in a time frame where I was prepared for it either. So I then get taken to go and see a gynecologist and they make me have an internal examination.
Hana (11:27)
Mm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Sommer (11:49)
And my mum had worked at the hospital and she was a nurse. And so when they said to me, Would it be okay if students watched? I agreed. I had an internal examination done with 13 people watching when I was on my period at 13 years old.
Hana (12:14)
Wow.
Lucy (12:14)
Fuck yeah.
Sommer (12:16)
And it's one of those very strange things is that the reality versus the perception is that it should have been the childhood abuse that actually traumatised me the most. Actually, some of the things that happened afterwards are the biggest traumas and not the rapes itself.
Hana (12:31)
Hmm.
That's just, I mean, I'm just processing everything. You've just...
Lucy (12:44)
I am there. It's just you feel I've got questions to say why but would you even find out why like these years later? Yeah, it's just...
Hana (12:54)
But I mean...
Sommer (12:54)
It's kind of unbelievable. Why would they why would they even ask somebody who has made a disclosure like that if that many people can observe?
Lucy (12:56)
Mmm.
Mmm.
But also why would you, no effect, why would you wanna see? I know like, but if you know the circumstances of what's going on and what you've been through, you must have had fear in your eyes. Like that must have been uncomfortable. Do you know what I mean? Like, for anyone, and even as a child anyway, yeah, like as an.
Sommer (13:15)
Yeah. Yeah.
Hana (13:16)
Yeah.
Sommer (13:21)
Yeah. I was digging my fingernails, digging my fingernails in, just staring at the ceiling. And one of the things about the amazing way that our brain protects us is that when the rapes were going on, I disassociated, and so my brain was somewhere else. And that's that's completely normal. I ended up having to do the same thing to go through the medical side of it.
Hana (13:25)
Yeah.
And that is just wild. so I was just thinking then about when you were disassociating, I've heard that before when I've ⁓ spoken or read about people who have been raped and it's horrendous at any point in your life, but thinking of you as an eight, nine, 10, 11 year old just absolutely breaks my heart. And also to be a child.
knowing that your brain, like you said, was protecting you and removing you from that situation mentally, yet physically it was still going on. When you obviously said something at school and then it sounded like you just kind of got ignored, what did that make you feel? And then my second thing I just wanted to ask was when you were obviously having that internal examination,
Sommer (14:18)
Yeah.
Hana (14:40)
Because obviously the rapes obviously were kind of sporadic, but it was the living in fear, what were they hoping to get from that internal examination? And did they get what they needed to in order to bring this situation to justice? know what mean? So two part questions, sorry.
Sommer (14:53)
they wanted
So yeah. So I've I've kind of asked the same questions because I had been very clear that I'd had enough and the last incident was months ago. So it's not like there was a rate kit or DNA or anything else that could be gleaned from it. ⁓ the only thing that they could do was determine whether or not my highmen was broken.
Lucy (15:28)
but then magically that can break anyway, can't it? So.
Sommer (15:29)
That was it.
Hana (15:31)
happen anyway.
Sommer (15:32)
I had a clamp accident that could have done it itself. Do you know what I mean? So it was literally medical abuse, as far as I'm concerned, of a rape victim. Because if you're not collecting evidence, what what was the point of putting me through that?
Lucy (15:35)
Yeah.
Yeah. And then kind of moving on because obviously you had that period, you're in the hospital, you said your mum works at the hospital. When was it your parents found out?
Sommer (16:00)
Mm.
Not for hours. I I knew that I usually got home from work at four ⁓ from school at four. And it started coming up to four o'clock. And I said to them, you need to let my mum know I'm safe. You need she needs to know I'm okay, because when I don't come home from work, she's gonna be frantic. When I don't come back, she you need to tell her, yeah, yeah, yeah, we will. They didn't tell her anything. Nobody told her anything.
Lucy (16:06)
Right.
Sommer (16:35)
What they did is traumatise my mum because they left it until it must have been about seven, half past seven in the evening, and they just sent police round to collect my belongings.
Hana (16:47)
And you were still in the hospital at this point. You'd had your examination.
Sommer (16:50)
No, by this point they're taking me from the hospital to a foster family. ⁓ I was literally just picked up, dumped, picked up, dumped, picked up, dumped. ⁓ they the social worker didn't stay with me, so it wasn't even the same face. When I went to the social services office, they introduced me to this lady I've never met before and said, She's a family worker, she's coming with you. And she remained with me in the room.
Hana (16:54)
my god. you...
Sommer (17:19)
when I was having my pelvic exam.
Hana (17:21)
Yeah.
Lucy (17:22)
Yeah.
Hana (17:23)
I mean, I was just thinking then about, so you didn't tell obviously anyone when the abuse was happening, which obviously I think is a very common thing and you were living in fear and I fully understand why that was so hard because the person was telling you I will threaten your family members. So obviously you were living this dual life really, probably putting a mask on and trying to live like a kid, but also living in fear. When you obviously blurted out what was
Sommer (17:31)
Yes.
Hana (17:52)
happening and you weren't believed, essentially, you were ignored. How does that make you feel then? Before this physical examination started happening a few weeks later, when you initially started to think, no one's doing anything about this, what were your feelings about that?
Sommer (18:08)
I thought it must be normal. I mean, that they dead seemed kind of horrified, but surely if they were that horrified, they'd have done something. So in the weeks in between, I just ended up going, okay, it looks like I'm gonna have to deal with it myself. So I'd I'd just kind of gone, all right, then I'm just gonna have to get on with it.
Lucy (18:09)
Yeah, you wouldn't know any different, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. ⁓
Yeah. So, I know you said that in your notes that you didn't...you weren't believed. Is that the part when you weren't believed or is there more to this now? Right! Go on then, tell us.
Sommer (18:39)
there's more to this. So ⁓ they get an emergency protection order, which is six-week care order. I go into care. ⁓ day one, in this strange house with strange people in a strange location that I don't know anything about either. Two male police officers are sent to take my statement. And I knew that it was.
gonna be really awful recalling everything that I could. Because as is normal with ⁓ people that have been, you know, a victim of sexual violence, very often the bits that come back is is sort of like jigsaw pieces. It's not a coherent timeline. You'll just get flashes of bits and pieces you can remember. And you don't necessarily ever get much more than that.
Especially after the years ⁓ where mine spanned. So I gave them the best account that I could and I stuffed down my feelings so that I wasn't just a sobbing wreck. Otherwise, I knew full well I was never getting through it. And immediately the police officers in the hallway, as they were leaving, after hours of grilling me.
Turn round to this lady who was then my foster mother and said to her, She didn't cry, it's not real. This is all attention. Boom.
Lucy (20:15)
What the fuck?
Hana (20:15)
So you weren't really believed at school.
Sommer (20:18)
I wasn't believed right away from the get go. Not
Hana (20:20)
and then there was a time span, then all of a sudden you're just picked up and taken to all these different places, which as a 13 year old girl who was already going through hormonal changes as we do, let alone going through what you had done, and you've said yourself on the outside, and really when you weren't experiencing this violence, you had a lovely life, it seems like your parents were decent people, and then they've just had their daughter taken from them with no explanation, and then you're in foster care.
Sommer (20:31)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Hana (20:50)
mad to me that there was kind of...
there was no kind of conversation between like the family and yourself before these steps were taken because I totally agree that there needs to be some kind of duty of care and this has come out and you are a child, you know, and they need to make sure they're protecting you and they don't know if it was happening in your house or whatever. So I get that. But I also think, know, I assume when you were saying, please tell my mom, like they have to maybe listen to what you're saying about the relationship that you have with them as well, but to be picked up
removed and put in these situations was obviously terrifying for you and then not to be believed by the policemen. So then what happened after that?
Sommer (21:34)
So literally within about four weeks, I didn't even stay the whole six weeks, they just sent me back home.
Lucy (21:42)
And then, did the family believe you?
Sommer (21:46)
Because the police had told them I was lying.
Lucy (21:49)
that was just given so and then I take everything back to normal seeing that person were they allowed to be around you?
Sommer (21:58)
So the the strange thing was well where nobody believed me, nothing changed. They literally sent me I got sent to a psychiatrist. That was what happened.
Lucy (22:04)
You think a little bit like not to disrespect anybody. Yeah, really. So your family truly believed that you were making this up for attention. There was not one little bit that your mother or brother or someone... I'm just bringing out the names. I'm not trying to put anything on them. But to think, well, maybe she was doing it for attention. yeah, exactly. Yeah, it just came out. was like...
Sommer (22:15)
No.
My little brother was only eight, to be fair, so
Hana (22:28)
Yeah.
Lucy (22:30)
But, what's he gonna do? Yeah, exactly. But, you know, you think like, we'll always make sure there's an adult in the room when that person's around or just... actually, maybe we should distance ourselves or... do you know what I mean? You think that would be something... I don't know. I don't know. Everyone thinks differently but that's...
Sommer (22:34)
Not a lot to put on a kid.
Hana (22:47)
Yeah.
Sommer (22:53)
Yeah, ⁓ the thing is they were so adamant, so adamant. I have spoken to family friends, I've spoken to family over the years because there is another chapter of this. So ⁓ I of course I I just spend my time wanting to be believed and wanting to be loved. So I end up ⁓ moving out at 17.
Lucy (23:07)
Okay, go on then.
Hana (23:08)
Wow.
Sommer (23:23)
Getting married at 18, having my first child at 19, my second one at 21. Strangely enough, it didn't really work. We were children and I was messed up. So was he. ⁓ but when I was 24, ⁓ someone that we know and trust and had known for a long time, a family member, ⁓ went and saw my mum and said to her, she's not lying.
He did it to me before he started on her. And she'd stayed quiet my entire life. She was nine years older than me and never said it. To this day, bless her, she still can't own it. She hasn't processed it. She is still punishing herself for being a victim. She refuses to talk about it, even with me.
Hana (23:53)
⁓ my god.
Lucy (23:53)
⁓ wow.
Hana (24:01)
Wow.
And just with your mum and your family members then, what's your relationship like with them now?
Lucy (24:16)
Jesus.
Sommer (24:27)
So now I have I'm older, got divorced, they're old, mum and dad are old. ⁓ so I took my divorce money and this little house that I live in is built in their back garden so that I can keep an eye on them.
Hana (24:43)
⁓ okay, so it's kind of, yeah, you still got that connection with them and yeah.
Sommer (24:44)
Ha ha ha.
Lucy (24:50)
Yeah.
Sommer (24:50)
Yeah, I mean mum and I have worked long and hard. It put a barrier between us because ⁓ she didn't believe me. And so when I really needed her, I felt rejected, really, because she hadn't believed what I'd said. It took a long time. I mean, it was thirty years ago that they got validation from somebody else that it wasn't me. ⁓ but mum was never offered.
Mum was told she was not a victim and so therefore was never given any counselling to deal with what we'd been through.
So it ended up being me. As I was dealing with myself, I ended up me and mum sort of chatting about everything and mum's come to terms with it and everything else because of the open conversations that she and I have had.
Hana (25:46)
Yeah, I mean, it's so hard, isn't it, to put yourself in her shoes as well. And obviously, you know, we know you're a mum. Obviously, we were gonna get into a stage of your life where that was obviously a difficult period. But yeah, your mum was probably torn and being told by, you know, certain people that you were lying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, I'm just glad that you kind of got the relationship with them.
Sommer (26:07)
Especially authorities.
Hana (26:16)
looking after them and obviously you've worked hard over the years to kind of be in a space like today and talk about it so but we've got plenty more to keep digging into so yes.
Sommer (26:21)
Yeah.
Lucy (26:23)
Yeah. And there was a bit, I to circle, we kind of jumped obviously going to when you were 24, but there was a period when you were 15 as well, wasn't there, where something else very traumatic happened to you. So, can you tell us about that and that day?
Sommer (26:26)
yeah. ⁓
Mm.
Yeah.
I can. Yeah. So when I went back home, I started self-medicating and so I was drinking. and I was out with a couple of friends and we went to a traveling fairground. ⁓ when we were there, we were sort of chatting to numerous people. And there was a guy that I'd known from school, and he was working at the fair, and so I was
Sitting in his caravan and I was chatting to him. Next thing I know, five guys come in and they grab hold of him, they drag him out the door, and leave one guy in the room with me. I can hear my I was with a male friend and a female friend and the male that worked there. And three of them had to stand out. Well, four of them stood outside, basically.
Battling them, I could hear them shouting and screaming, trying to get in at me. I was commanded to take all my clothes off, get on the bed. And I could hear my friends desperately fighting, trying to get in. But I kind of knew the routine at that point because of my history. And I just went, okay, because the quicker I let them get on with it, the quicker I could get out of there. And one by one, they all came in. So I was raped by five.
Hana (27:59)
God.
my god.
Sommer (28:11)
⁓ it was a horrific experience. It was a horrific experience. The worst part of it, though, was the fact that the female friend of mine ⁓ coincidentally ended up moving on to the estate that I was raising my children on decades later. The impact it had had on her not being able to get to me.
She was smoking crystal meth, she was done.
Hana (28:43)
Yeah, so that experience obviously, I mean, for you again, there's so much to unpack just from what you've told us there. I can't even imagine again, the fear and being transported back to being a child again, and then one after the other, after the other. mean, were you under the influence of anything? Were you just there again, disassociating? Were you completely sober? You were just...
Sommer (29:09)
Complete disassociation.
Hana (29:12)
And then your friend from not being able to save you from that, which you obviously weren't expecting. You could hear that they were trying. She then was traumatized by that. She ended up becoming addicted to drugs.
Sommer (29:25)
Yeah, really badly.
Lucy (29:27)
Then what happened that night then? Because I presume you obviously got out. Did you see your friend again? Did you speak to family?
Sommer (29:34)
Yep. They were there waiting for me. They were let go once I was let go.
Hana (29:41)
I mean, what, what?
Sommer (29:42)
We just all walked away in silence because there wasn't one of us knew what to say.
Lucy (29:45)
as you watch.
Hana (29:45)
Like how do you...
I just can't, you mean your whole body must have been traumatized or you know, you're mentally obviously in the pits at this point. You're walking away in silence. Like what did you do after that? Did you want to report it? Did you think, no one believed me when I was a child. I'm not gonna go through that again. ⁓ my.
Sommer (30:06)
No.
Lucy (30:09)
Hmm.
Sommer (30:09)
Yeah. What was the point in reporting it? I did that, went down that route. That went against me. I ended up having to go and see a psychologist, which I was still seeing a psychologist, but it wasn't doing me any good. Social services have paid for it. And they were trying to find out what made me lie the way I had done. And so it wasn't even that it was therapeutic.
And I was still seeing him at the time. I didn't even tell him. There was literally no point of saying anything to anyone. Because apart from me, my male friend and my female friend, who else was gonna believe me? Because no one had done before.
Lucy (30:38)
Yeah.
Hana (30:56)
And obviously that fair environment then, just rides were going, people were just there having fun, and you're just walking out of this environment knowing there was five guys that have completely just committed a crime and are just gonna get away with it. What were you doing, feeling, how were you coping in the following days after that?
Sommer (31:05)
Guys.
Again, the disassociation means that I was numb. So I was basically, I was so used at that point to squashing down everything I was really feeling, painting on a face and making it socially look good. So I just continued to do exactly the same thing. My drinking stepped up because trying to stay ⁓ not hysterical, trying not to just
Lucy (31:39)
Hmm.
Sommer (31:48)
lose all sense of rhyme and reason and just fall into a puddle was literally everything that I could do to get through in a day.
Lucy (32:00)
And that's just basically how you've got on, just got on with life. And then your life moves obviously quickly. You got engaged at 17, married at 19, first child at 19, second at 21. What were you imagining life was gonna be at that point then? Was it, this is taking a good turning point? Like, I've met the man, I've got my children. What was going through your head?
Sommer (32:02)
Survival. Yeah. Yeah.
Hana (32:03)
Yeah.
Sommer (32:25)
Yeah. Well, the only things I'd ever wanted was to be a wife and a mother. And I thought, do you know what? Doesn't matter what's happened before. I've managed to get that. I had two beautiful, healthy children. ⁓ but life already hadn't been kind. ⁓ when we got married, he'd had a motorbike accident, nearly lost his left leg and was in and out of hospital having lots of surgery.
⁓ so of course he was given painkillers. So cut about two and a half years down the line, he's had about, I don't know, six, seven operations trying to get his leg to move. And one day he put in for his painkillers, and the doctor just completely refused. He was on DF 118, so he had a full blown addiction, which they didn't wean him off of.
Literally it was a case of he was taking eight a day one day and zero the next. And that's when the trouble really started.
Hana (33:25)
Mm.
Mm.
and tell us about that trouble.
Sommer (33:39)
He became withdrawn, very, very depressed, very angry. And all of his trauma and the anger from the traumas that he had been through came out, and that came out on me. And so it became it went from punching the wall next to my head intimidation, ⁓ through to the day I ran where I got.
Unbelievable strength. He had an old-fashioned marshall valve amp, big one. And on a normal day, it took both hands and I'd pick it up, move it a couple of inches and put it down because it was really heavy. But this day I got the strength to actually pick it up and hit him with it. Grabbed my kids and we ran. It was December. I had no shoes, no coats, no nothing. We ran.
Hana (34:26)
Wow.
Sommer (34:36)
Unluckily a neighbour, she was on the doorstep picking up her bottle of milk and she recognised what it was immediately and just went, get in here before he sees, because she had fled domestic violence herself.
Hana (34:54)
So, I'm just gonna unpack a little bit. I'm probably gonna regret this. I'm probably gonna end up getting emotional, but this is your incredible story and I don't, you know, I just, so in those moments then, you started to get violent and it was obviously getting worse and you were just obviously then going from a relationship that you thought that would never happen to him starting to build up to you then running away.
Lucy (34:54)
so common and let it go on.
Sommer (35:03)
Okay.
Hana (35:22)
What was life like? How were you protecting the kids? How were you looking after yourself? And what is this timeframe of when you ran?
Sommer (35:34)
So the violence started when my son was about probably six months old. So that was my second child. ⁓ and every time it happened, I was just willing to take it as long as he stayed away from the kids. ⁓ but I decided I did.
get it together and I went right okay I think I need to end this much like I did with the situation in my childhood. ⁓ reported it and the police turned up and said to me, Well, yeah, we we could arrest him, but we'd recommend not to do that. Because we'll only hold him for a few hours. And when he comes home, he's gonna be more angry.
So we think you'd be better off not reporting it because otherwise it'll probably escalate it and make it worse.
Lucy (36:41)
And what year was this then around then?
Sommer (36:43)
Nineteen ninety four.
Lucy (36:46)
So.
Hana (36:47)
Okay, and then obviously that again, feeling like you're getting let down when you're trying to report something. So you stayed, it obviously got worse. Did the kids see any of it? What was that situation like?
Sommer (36:54)
Yeah.
Yeah, so because the police had failed me, I decided I'd take a completely different tactic and file for divorce, which made things an awful lot worse. ⁓ you wouldn't think it could, but it it did. Because the reality was where the house was in joint names, I was told he had the legal right to be there. So he gets a letter at the house from the solicitor. And
Lucy (37:14)
you
Sommer (37:32)
That's it. That's it. Boom. So instead of it just being horrendous, it then became a living nightmare. He would set out so that he would make sure that if I was walking, I'll give you an example. So there was the end of a sofa and then a door. And I was coming in through the lounge door.
And he went to push his way out. And so shoul shoulder barged me. And then I got hit because I'd barged into him.
At that point I then started sleeping on my children's bedroom floor because he was sleeping in the bed. So either I slept on the sofa where the kids were upstairs and I couldn't protect them, or I ended up sleeping on the floor. So I slept on the floor.
Hana (38:30)
And I take it you were their protector. I take it you did everything you could.
Sommer (38:34)
Yeah. yeah. He never touched them. Never.
Lucy (38:39)
And then, obviously, you fled, didn't you? And that was to a B &B, was it?
Sommer (38:42)
yeah.
Yes, I ended up being housed in a bed and breakfast about eight miles away. ⁓ it was horrendous. It was a bed and breakfast. It was women with their children. There wasn't a bath, no bathroom, showers only. So my son was only a year old, and there was a kitchen sink in the in the room. And so I used to have to bath him in the kitchen sink in the room. We had
Lucy (39:12)
No.
Hana (39:13)
Mm.
Sommer (39:15)
A double bed, which was mine, which was actually a mattress on the floor. There was a single bed, which my daughter went into, and they didn't have any cots. I had to be bought a travel cot for my son to sleep in. And we were there while the divorce was going through and I was fighting to try and get my three-bedroom house back.
Lucy (39:39)
Alright! So, that was a B &B...sorry, like was that was B &B independently or was this like a women's refuge kind of like B &B and were you explaining it just literally? right! So, that was just like...that was...yeah.
Sommer (39:46)
no, it was just where the council housed me. It was it was just a B and B.
Hana (39:49)
Yeah.
And obviously when you were there then, I mean, even though how you're describing it is terrible, I'm sure it was much better than being in the house with your ex.
Sommer (40:05)
The it was the unbelievable thing I thought I would break. I would find it probably more challenging. Actually, the feeling of immense relief.
Lucy (40:17)
Hmm.
Sommer (40:20)
I had not realized until I left how many years I'd probably been walking on eggshells for. That I had been utilizing exactly the same skills as I'd honed in my childhood, which was I could walk into a room and I'd know if the vibe was off. I knew whether I was going to be in danger or not, whether I was going to have to be careful.
Hana (40:27)
Yeah.
Lucy (40:28)
Yeah.
Sommer (40:48)
about what I did, what I said, how I did it. And so it was it was like a big sigh that g went through my whole body where I was just like, my goodness. I don't actually have to stay half awake all the time, afraid that he might just decide one of these days that I don't know, one of the kids has done something.
Lucy (40:52)
Mm.
Yeah. Now, like this is a lot of trauma and we're only at 1994. Do know what mean? There's a lot more obviously going on to this story. So before we get into what we mentioned in the intro, like the premonitions and stuff, what, if you can kind of sum up what happened next, was that the end of divorce? Was he gone? Did you move happily ever on? And then these premonitions kind of started.
Sommer (41:24)
So
Yes.
Hana (41:41)
Yeah.
Lucy (41:45)
or go on.
Hana (41:45)
I have just one more question though. Sorry. We you it was like this. I'm just obviously wanting just to finally piece this together. And obviously your little boy was a baby. So I'm sure, know, luckily he doesn't remember any of it and he just sees you as his mom. Is it presumptive? Tell me then. does he, so, and then your daughter then, like I was gonna basically just sort of ask you like, you know,
Sommer (41:48)
On ⁓
Lucy (41:50)
Ahaha.
Sommer (42:05)
⁓ that's a presumption.
Hana (42:15)
what their memories are from it and how they are now and what your relationship is and that community that you felt in that B &B with other domestic violence victims, you you've already said that you had that massive sigh of relief. Like, was it like ⁓ a family in the end? Were the kids, you know, recovering together, getting through it, you know, was that a safe haven in the end? So yeah, again, two questions, sorry, I always do it two in one.
Sommer (42:22)
Mm-hmm.
⁓ yeah, it was it was a temporary stopgap. ⁓ it was purely coincidental that there was an entire family with a very similar background that lived in the next room to us. But apart from that, it was men. ⁓ and the Ben breakfast we were in, they used to lock the kitchen. ⁓ and they would open it for breakfast for about an hour and a half, and then it would get locked again.
There was no communal areas. There was nowhere for the kids to play. It was riddled with black mould mould. We were losing clothes all over the place to it. And the kids were told off if they made noise. So we had, I mean, she had six kids, the lady next door. So we had eight kids between us, all under the age of about seven. And we weren't allowed our children to play in the corridor outside our rooms.
Hana (43:40)
It was very then, it was a relief to be out of that house, but not into somewhere that was an enjoyable environment. And I suppose you are thinking, well, at least I'm not getting beaten up, but my kids are obviously just, and again, now it moves on to sort of the first part of my question about how they are, how they dealt with it. So presumption then, your one-year-old does remember things, your daughter must remember things.
Sommer (43:48)
Nine. Nine.
My daughter, the main thing that she remembers is how awful it was being shouted at for playing living in the bed and breakfast. That's the thing that has stuck with her for the decades. My son, it was a it was a horrific thing. It was about 10 years ago. ⁓ so he would have been in his twenties. and something came up.
Hana (44:18)
Yeah.
Sommer (44:37)
⁓ about their real dads. And he said, Huh. I remember him grabbing you by the throat and dragging him over me sitting. He was nine months old and in the buggy.
Now we're always told, ⁓ and you know, they've they've done lots of things into it, children don't remember, not if it's before this age. And there's there's been different ages over time where they believe that kids don't actually remember anything. So when he came out with that, and it was very, very specific, I knew exactly when it was that was the day I decided we were running the first time.
to try before I did the divorce. ⁓ so I knew exactly I could pinpoint which time it was when this happened. And I know he was only nine months old.
Lucy (45:36)
Hmm.
Hana (45:37)
I mean, how are the kids now? How is your relationship with them? know, mean, what amazing kids they must be to have gone through that. And I bet you are such an inspiration to them in terms of how you've got through your life, which we will be bringing up way more after this. But yeah, how are they and what is your relationship like with them?
Sommer (45:57)
the kids are amazing, absolutely amazing. They have done fantastic. My son is high flying in a career because he's just naturally talented. ⁓ my daughter's a stay-at-home mum, and I'm so proud of her. She's an S E N mum as well. ⁓ I've got grandkids, ⁓ and she is negotiating family life, raising S E N kids with all of the issues that goes along with that. ⁓
Hana (46:24)
Yep, yep.
Sommer (46:27)
But they're fantastic, absolutely fantastic.
Lucy (46:31)
But...yeah. And I take it dad's completely out of the picture. He's never...was he? Or was he ever done as well or was it just ignored? I know!
Hana (46:31)
Well, credit to you, absolute credit to you.
Yeah, Summer just gives us so many surprises. You just see her face. If you're not watching this and you're like, every time me and Lucy think, you know, we know the answer to something, Summer's face is like,
Sommer (46:41)
So
Yeah.
Think you know where it's going? ⁓ no, you don't know. So he was around ⁓ and maintained contact with them, ⁓ but only supervised through his parents. ⁓ and then he decided he was going to take the children. ⁓ and yeah, it it was only for a few hours. It was only for a few hours. He didn't return them from contact for a few hours. And I
Lucy (46:48)
Ahahahahah
God, yeah. Sorry, just remembered.
Hana (47:08)
go to the kid...
Sommer (47:16)
I will always be eternally grateful because what happened was when I phoned his parents and said my kids hadn't come home, they backed me and they called him and they found him with the kids. Brian, my my daughter, she remembers a weird day where dad drove them somewhere in the dark.
And it was all grassy, and then he bought them an ice cream. Now I understand why, as a two and a half year old, that would have been like, what? Night time, ice cream, what? Yeah. And then the next thing she remembers is his mum and dad rocking up, getting him out of the car, taking him away. She could hear them shouting at him. And then his mum just coming, giving her a big grin and going, Come on.
Lucy (47:50)
Yeah ⁓
Hana (47:50)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ice cream, grass, not sand, yeah.
Sommer (48:13)
Get in granddad's car, we're gonna take you back to mum now. And that's all she knew. She had no idea they'd been kidnapped. She just didn't didn't have a clue, bless her.
Lucy (48:20)
That's a good thing. Kidnap with an ice cream and you're gonna get kidnapped. Sorry!
Hana (48:23)
It's just my... It's just like, yeah... ⁓
Sommer (48:26)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It wa it did have chocolate as well, so I I completely get why she was there. Yeah.
Lucy (48:31)
Hahaha! 99!
Hana (48:33)
But again, obviously, like you're in-laws, like to be able to back you and they could have literally done the complete opposite. And it's like, you know, it sounds like they were lovely grandparents as well. And they had that support for you and the kids had that safe place as well. You know, the dad might not have been what they needed, but grandparent and you and you know.
Sommer (48:54)
No. They were ⁓ up until the day they both but they died separately. But until the day they died, they backed me and the kids, not him, his family, his family turned their back on him. He he did some awful things. ⁓ and for years, of course, they didn't didn't want to hear it. But then as things happened, that was it. They backed me and the kids. They were
Lucy (49:14)
So, he never changed.
Sommer (49:24)
My rock with the kids, if they weren't listening to me and they didn't listen to my mum, then I'd go to his mum and dad, and they would sort my children out. It was it was absolutely incredible. I actually ended up being left ⁓ my mother-in-law's most treasured possessions when she died. How amazing is that?
Lucy (49:48)
Bye.
Hana (49:48)
⁓ I mean, it is amazing. And yeah, so glad that kind of that is the space you're in with your kids and they are flourishing and yeah, all credit to you, Summer.
Sommer (50:00)
Okay.
Lucy (50:00)
Yeah, and then briefly, this is the part not saying this story. I mean, we're nearly an hour in but the premonitions I've got to know more about this. Was this something you as a child you got because you've been through a lot of trauma or was it just one day you had a dream? Tell us more. Tell me how it works.
Hana (50:06)
I know.
Tell us.
Sommer (50:19)
Okay, so ⁓ it was actually a very public experience, ⁓ although I was at home. So ⁓ my house used to run as an outreach youth center, and I had a front room full of teenagers, ⁓ and we were sitting and talking, and there were some of my friends there as well, and all of a sudden.
In my head, it was like I had a video clip and I could see my childhood best friend who had seen me through everything, and I could see him dead on the floor with a needle hanging out his arm.
And I went, that's really weird. And he went, I don't like spooky stuff. I don't want to hear that. Okay, fair enough. ⁓ yeah, he was sitting there and one of the teenagers
Lucy (51:10)
So, he's in the room with you at the time. Right! Okay! I'm picturing it.
Hana (51:15)
Was it like an out of body experience? Did you feel like you were removed from your body? It was just in your mind that you were?
Sommer (51:21)
No. So all my life, I I think we along with the disassociation, sometimes I just used to stare off into space. And you know, thoughts happen while you're just gazing at nothing. And I just kind of done that. And I had these like video clips just coming up in my head. And there were two. So there was the one about my lovely sand.
Lucy (51:22)
watching a film like you do dreaming
Sommer (51:51)
And I told him, and he was like, whoa, don't want to hear that. And then I saw one of the teenagers who were sitting in the room at the time have a motorbike crash on a motorbike. And I told him. Now the reactions of both of them, complete opposites. San just went, no, no. ⁓ where is the little lad? Ian just went, right, okay.
So he took it as a warning, Sam didn't. ⁓ within so within six weeks in 2000, which was six years later, they both died exactly the way I saw.
Hana (52:37)
Wow. And was Sam, if I'm saying that correctly, was he an addict or was this completely spontaneous? right.
Sommer (52:41)
Yeah yeah.
Not at the time. He he wasn't an addict. He hadn't taken he rehabbed from heroin. And like it was the last place he was ever, ever, ever going to go. Which was why he was like, no, don't be stupid. You know, that was years ago. That never gonna so it was very easy for him to dismiss. ⁓ what actually happened was
Lucy (53:02)
Bye.
Sommer (53:13)
He got told that the baby he'd always wanted he wasn't the father of. And it made him relapse, which completely understand. He promised me he would never inject again. ⁓ so he went and found a girl and she injected him. He OD'd and she ran.
Lucy (53:30)
⁓
Hana (53:31)
wow.
Sommer (53:32)
So he died on his own and they didn't find his body for seven days. So they had to estimate. ⁓ but I knew it was his birthday that he died on. I knew it was his birthday.
Hana (53:47)
Wow, so you, when you had this premonition, you can totally understand why he'd be like, what you on about? Like that's old me, but you saw that he was gonna go back, well not even go back to drugs, you just saw that needle hanging out of his arm. that's, and obviously they, when they found him, they found him with that needle.
Sommer (53:55)
Yeah. It was yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Hana (54:10)
And how did you find out about the death of him then and how did you start to think, shit, that's what I said would happen and what were your thoughts then about this premonition that came true?
Sommer (54:22)
So his younger brother, we all knew each other. His younger brother was only a year, two years younger than me. So I got a phone call from his younger brother going, How did you know? I was like, What? He went, Do you remember what you said? Like, yeah. He went, Well, he's dead. And it was an overdose.
But they didn't find him till there's a swarm of flies and he was dripping through the ceiling downstairs.
Lucy (54:56)
⁓ my god.
Sommer (54:59)
And his younger brother just went, How did you know? I went, I don't know. I can't I can't explain that to you. I just got this thing in my head and said it out loud. And then years later, here it is. And I was I was really, really destroyed by that. Going, Well, what is the point in having a premonition if telling him couldn't change anything?
Hana (55:03)
Yeah.
you
Lucy (55:24)
Yeah, and did that even happen in between those years or was that the only time you were in that room, something came over you and you've seen the two? The only time.
Sommer (55:32)
Only time. I mean, I I do tarot cards and I do psychic things. I've never done a premonition. That is the one singular only time it has ever happened.
Lucy (55:36)
Yes.
Hana (55:36)
Mmm.
I was going to ask. Yeah, Steve had it. ⁓
Lucy (55:44)
Do you know why? Like, do you know what mean? Like, have you looked into this? Because if you're into it already, there's definitely gonna be something that you're gonna be like, I need to find out why that was the only time or not yet.
Sommer (55:58)
Yeah. So my belief now is that actually it wasn't about changing anything. It was about preparing me for the heartbreak of what I was going to have to go through.
Lucy (56:03)
Mm.
Hana (56:19)
So was almost like it was protection. was like, I'm gonna let you, yeah, yeah, let you know what you're gonna be up against. ⁓ Do you think that might be a reaction to all your previous trauma? Like kind of like your mind just saying, you don't need to go for anything more. I am just pre-warning you this is gonna happen. Build yourself up, get some resilience. And when it does, you're kind of expecting it.
Sommer (56:23)
Forewarned being forearmed. Yeah.
Yeah. Or it was a signpost to the beginning of the next version of myself because I'd survived everything else by this point. ⁓ and I was building my own life. I was starting to find my feet and my joy and and starting to really enjoy things. Sans dying was absolutely cataclysmic, and I was devastated.
And then within six weeks, the teenager died in a head-on motorbike accident on a canary yellow motorbike with canary yellow motorbike leathers and helmet because he said to me, I heard what you said. No one can say they won't see me coming on this.
Hana (57:38)
God, so he tried to, he listened to you, and he tried to protect himself, and it still wasn't enough. And what did you think about that one then? Because these are the only two promenades you had at that time, and you've never had any since, you've never had in that time. So then how did you react to that one?
Sommer (57:42)
Yeah.
Still didn't work. Yeah.
Yeah. No.
That's when I ended up becoming a crack addict.
Hana (58:03)
Right, well, let's dive right in then, Summer, because I don't fucking blame you. Honestly. Wow, right. I mean, off we go. Okay, so you...
Lucy (58:04)
Yeah.
Sommer (58:06)
That leads nicely on.
Self-medicating. Yeah, it it started with drinking just to try and blot out the pain. ⁓ the pain was so intense by the time they'd both died, and the guilt feelings of I didn't manage to change anything, I didn't manage to save anyone. What on earth was the point in this? ⁓ I had a
Lucy (58:14)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Sommer (58:40)
couple of times I'd kind of snorted cocaine. Now this sounds awful. I didn't know it was crack until I actually reported myself and went to went to rehab.
Hana (58:54)
So you thought you were sniffing cocaine, but it ended up being crack.
Sommer (58:56)
So so no, I I was I was I was told that instead of having all the impurities that's cut into, you know, having a line of cocaine, that actually if you do this, it purifies it. I had no idea that the purification process was what turns it into crap.
Lucy (59:21)
Is that when they burn it? Sorry, am I being stupid? Right! Yeah, okay! Right! Yeah! Right! Okay!
Hana (59:24)
Is it when they do the lighter thing and it bubbles? Yeah, when you see it, ⁓ God, do you know what? I mean, we always say we get educated with these podcasts and yeah, now I get educated on, you see it in movies, don't you? And you see them burn it.
Sommer (59:25)
Yeah. When you smoke it, yeah.
Lucy (59:36)
Yeah.
Sommer (59:38)
Actually, what you usually see is the heroin tin foil and bubbling with the brown stuff. So that's heroin. Never went near that because of Sandy. So at least he saved me from that, I've got to say. ⁓ but with with crack, it's usually most people, it'll be a Coke can with holes punctured in a dent on the top. You then put fag ash on it, and then the crack.
Hana (59:44)
Yeah.
Lucy (59:50)
Ugh.
Hana (59:50)
Ha ha.
Sommer (1:00:07)
Rocks on it and you smoke it. So you s it's you smoke it like a pipe, which is why they use crack pipes, so a glass pipe. And then and then you get, you know, the metal cleaners, like the twirly whirly sil ⁓ so you take a bit of that and that's what you put the rocks onto, and then it melts, and you can smoke it that way with a pipe.
Hana (1:00:10)
What's this?
Yeah, that, yeah.
Yes.
wow, it's like a science experiment.
Lucy (1:00:31)
They're your kids. Sorry. You know how to do it now. I know I'm joking. I know I'm not saying it's just the whole like... Yeah. No, it's organic. Like the pipe. Sorry.
Hana (1:00:34)
but
Sommer (1:00:35)
No, seriously don't do it. Ruin. Yeah.
Hana (1:00:37)
Dad.
That will get edited out, don't worry about that. In terms of then...
Sommer (1:00:50)
No, the co can was organic. The pipe is preconceived.
Hana (1:00:54)
Wow, it's too much of my brain. ⁓ In terms of then, like how you got into that, did you like go searching for that hit then, or did you start to hang about with people because you were drinking too much and you fall into that wrong circle? How do you go from just being, yeah, like sober to that?
Sommer (1:01:10)
this is how complicated my life is. Okay, let's explain this. So the domestic violence husband had an affair with a 15-year-old friend of the family. She by this time was in her 20s, and my ex-brother-in-law ended up phoning me going, I think I ought to say something. But she moved on to the same estate I was living on.
Hana (1:01:38)
The one that you talked about before. Yes, yes.
Sommer (1:01:40)
Yeah. So on that estate, I had the friend that saved me from the rape and the was fifteen year old girl my ex-husband had been having an affair with. She by this point was a heroin and crack addict, and I knew he was the reason that she had ended up trying to kill herself at fifteen, and the reason she'd ended up becoming a drug addict.
Lucy (1:01:51)
It's like a soap opera.
Sommer (1:02:06)
And I tried to befriend her and then my life folded and I ended up doing the drugs with her. She is another one, unfortunately, that's dead now.
Lucy (1:02:11)
Bye.
Hana (1:02:12)
⁓ my God.
Lucy (1:02:15)
You couldn't write this stuff, could you? If this was like a drama or something like... Jesus!
Hana (1:02:16)
my god.
Sommer (1:02:18)
honestly, I know, right? This is my life.
Hana (1:02:21)
I mean, knew this was gonna be an interesting conversation, but this is like, know, bang, bam, bam, bam, bam, do you what I mean? So that's how you got into it then. right, so then it the year 2000, you were reporting yourself left, right, and center. What do you mean by that then? You were just telling anyone that you would listen that you needed help.
Lucy (1:02:28)
Eugh...
Sommer (1:02:30)
Yeah.
But no, no. So surprise another surprise turn of events that nobody you seriously, it's even more unbelievable. So I was into the crack, nobody knew. I did it behind closed doors. My children didn't know, schools didn't know. And I'd only been doing it about I say only, but I'd been doing it about three months. And this this dealer
Lucy (1:02:47)
You
Sommer (1:03:13)
who I knew through that particular young lady. ⁓ I phoned him and said, You need to bring me some. And he turned up. And what he used to do is just step inside the door, do a quick like with the hands so nobody can see, and then disappear. This day, he walked into my front room. And I thought, Where are you going? So I followed him and he said,
I don't even believe I'm doing this myself.
I gave up my wife, my kids, my family. I live in a squat on a mattress, no bedding. I don't care about anything apart from the drugs. I thought up until now I had lost all of my humanity. But I'm gonna make a deal with you right now. I need to sell the drugs to make enough money to be able to pay for mine. I was like, right.
And he said, I'm not gonna charge you anything. And we're gonna sit and smoke as much crack as we can tonight. If you promise me that in the morning you will phone someone and tell them what's going on, and you can't take it back. And that was actually what happened. I phoned my mum and I thought she had disowned me. And at some point while I was crying and telling my mum.
The truth about what had been going on, he had just disappeared. I've never seen him. Never seen him again.
Hana (1:04:51)
So he was giving you a lifeline. Have I?
Sommer (1:04:55)
He told me, yeah, he literally said to me, This isn't you. This isn't who you're supposed to be. You are not supposed to end up like me. Sort your life out. Change. It was actually a heroine and crack addict and dealer who made my life completely change.
Hana (1:05:08)
Wow. Wow.
Wow. Again, just blown away.
Lucy (1:05:25)
It's a bit like a drug angel almost. I mean, have ever seen him again?
Sommer (1:05:31)
No, never. He d That was it?
Hana (1:05:33)
And did you stay living where you were living then? Because it sounds like it was an estate, but there was loads of drugies there. Did you move? Yeah.
Lucy (1:05:39)
Yeah.
Sommer (1:05:42)
Yeah, I I mean, I didn't move for for years and years and until my life changed again and I moved away. ⁓ I actually got clean and sober in exactly the same place. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Hana (1:05:56)
Wow. And all the while you're again, know, kids are going to school, having a lovely time, you know, and you are a drug addict behind the scenes and this, you know, drug angel as we'll call him, like Lucy said, is giving you this lifeline. You called your mom. So your mom, she, what did she do? Check you into ⁓ rehab? Did she come and look after you? What happened? How did you get into rehab?
Sommer (1:06:07)
Mm-hmm.
Lucy (1:06:09)
Hehehehehe
Sommer (1:06:22)
Mum didn't know what to do. She's a very innocent lady, bless her. ⁓ and she just cried. She literally just sobbed. And I said, I understand she probably won't want to speak to me again. She said, Sweetheart, with everything you've been through, I get it. I do. We'll be here. Don't worry about it. Absolutely fine. What are you gonna do next? And I said, I'm gonna find social services and tell them.
And so that was what I did. My next phone call was then social services, who basically, even after doing their investigations, said, Are you sure? And that was honestly something the social worker said. Are you sure you're a crack addict? yeah, pretty certain. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't just gonna phone you and say that just for funsies. But yeah, it was a question.
Lucy (1:07:00)
⁓
Say
Did you come across like in a really happy positive way like you come across on the podcast where people think, she's just having a laugh with you?
Sommer (1:07:18)
Yeah. Yeah, honestly. I d Dave, are you sure? Because they went and spoke to the school and they said, Mm, we've got a lot of families that we would expect this conversation about. And that is not one of them. Are you sure you've got the right family?
Lucy (1:07:21)
Ahaha!
Hana (1:07:33)
I mean.
I mean, I'm already foreseeing this promo reel where you just say, are you sure you're a crack addict? Because it's literally like, you know, again, you're reporting yourself and putting yourself in this situation. And yeah, they are looking at you, this, you know, put together, you know, strong woman. And I can imagine their confusion. then, were you doing that then so your kids would go into foster care whilst you got clean? Like, what happened with that then?
Sommer (1:07:41)
Yes.
Yeah.
Was my plan because I I believed that I was not good enough to be or strong enough at that moment in time to be able to be the best person for my kids. And I begged them, I asked them, and they laughed at me. They told me that I was understandably messed up. Yes, I definitely needed some help, but what I didn't need was to lose my children.
Hana (1:08:35)
⁓ I love, it's like.
Sommer (1:08:36)
Social services were amazing. they were absolutely amazing. They arranged for me to go to a specialist rehab center in Brighton. And they are a female only Monday to Friday daytime rehab. They also have the children's services, therapeutic services there as well. And it's all encompassing.
Me and the kids all went there, they got therapy, I got therapy, I got Reiki and ⁓ you name it, ⁓ we threw everything at it, everything at it. And I went along for six months and got clean and happy and actually worked through all the stuff that I hadn't managed to work through before because of the circumstances.
Lucy (1:09:14)
Meh.
Hana (1:09:16)
Amazing.
Sommer (1:09:34)
Terrified when they said to me, We think you're all right now. No, please don't leave me on my own. So there was an agreement because I was scared and I I knew what my life had been like previously. ⁓ and I asked them for a pathway to be able to self-refer if I needed to, if life took a turn and I felt like there was a chance I was gonna wobble again.
Lucy (1:09:39)
Mmm.
Sommer (1:10:02)
That I could just pick up the phone and get back to them. There was a good reason for that. Because after rehab, ⁓ a friend of a friend ⁓ asked me out. Lovely guy. ⁓ so lovely. I said I couldn't get a babysitter. And the first thing he said was, Okay, we'll go on a family picnic. I'll get a ball and I'll get a frisbee and we'll just take the kids with us. He was incredible.
Hana (1:10:24)
you
Sommer (1:10:32)
Absolutely incredible. And three months, three months later, ⁓ he was complaining of having backache after staying with me for a weekend. And he went home and he took some painkillers, and the pain continued to get worse. So he went to A and E.
Hana (1:10:33)
⁓
Okay.
Lucy (1:10:48)
Huh.
Sommer (1:10:56)
And A and E looked at him and he was younger than me and they said, You're a twenty four year old painter and decorator. Of course you got backache. Sent him away. Week later, he was in so much pain he couldn't lift a cup of tea off the floor. So they take him into hospital. About a week after that, they've done all the testing, he had stage four cancer, and he died within six weeks.
Lucy (1:11:19)
Hmm.
Wow.
Hana (1:11:23)
God.
Sommer (1:11:25)
And that year, so 2001, ⁓ Christmas Eve morning was the morning that I could go and see his body. So I dropped the kids off with my family and I went and said goodbye and then put on my big girl pants and played Merry Christmas with my children.
Hana (1:11:48)
My God, it just doesn't, it's relentless, isn't it? Like, absolutely relentless. You know, how do these things keep happening to you? How have you still got the strength to keep going?
Lucy (1:11:53)
Yeah.
Sommer (1:11:54)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lucy (1:12:02)
Yeah, I was gonna say, is this something...because obviously, you've mentioned spirituality with Tarot and things like that. Is this something you went into then after this trauma or is this...
Sommer (1:12:05)
It's
Hana (1:12:08)
Mm-hmm.
Sommer (1:12:14)
⁓ after the premonition, I really, really, really sort of started getting into it. I got trained with the spiritualistic church. ⁓ but then I started doing my own thing. My ex-mother-in-law was a high priestess and white witch. So it was, it was very easy to explore that side. To be honest, I'm gonna say, I would love to say it was down to that. It's not. I'm just stubborn. And it really is just turning stubbornness of.
These things that have happened to me, some of it's been really nasty people, and that's their issues, not mine. And it's almost like a grown-up version of bullying. You know, if somebody feels really small and they destroy somebody else, it makes them feel better. Well, that's their issue, not mine. It took me a very, very, very long time to realize that actually.
Hana (1:13:04)
Mm-hmm.
Lucy (1:13:04)
Hmm.
Sommer (1:13:13)
It was never me. It was made to feel like it was me because it happened to me. But it wasn't me. It wasn't my choices. It was their issues that created the situation. I was just basically in the in the blast zone of them blowing themselves up.
Lucy (1:13:34)
And I'll have to go on to it now because I feel like I've been edging it. You said White Witch and I know we've mentioned demons and possession. It says itself. Go on. Fuck, okay. Right.
Hana (1:13:41)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sommer (1:13:44)
Yes. So that was when I was a child. ⁓ yeah, yeah. ⁓ so I I grew up Church of England family, ⁓ completely normal. my auntie is a vicar and my cousin is a ⁓ a church youth leader. ⁓ so it it really is very prevalent.
Hana (1:13:50)
we're going right back, okay.
Sommer (1:14:15)
⁓ and I got given sounds really weird. I got given this blue nylon nineteen seventies. Thank you very much. ⁓ blue nylon Teddy stuff toy. And it got a weird look in it, guys. It it wasn't friendly to look at. It was uncomfortable to look at. And I got this thing and I didn't like it, because it was horrible. And I started having nightmares.
Hana (1:14:23)
You
Mmm.
Sommer (1:14:45)
And there started being shadows that would walk across the walls coming towards me, reaching for me. And they said it was night terrors. I'm like, I don't think it is. I got so scared that I wasn't really getting out of bed. and my mum and my auntie just basically looked at this teddy and went, There is something wrong with that. So they took it out and burnt it, thinking that would
Hana (1:14:52)
Wow.
Sommer (1:15:14)
actually make it better. ⁓ none of us actually knowing anything any different because who does? Who has ever been given a training manual on what to do if you think there's a demon in your child, Teddy? No one. No one knows what to do. Yeah. So let me tell you. ⁓
Lucy (1:15:23)
Mm-hmm.
Hana (1:15:25)
Until now, until now.
Lucy (1:15:30)
AHAHAHAHA
Sommer (1:15:36)
So they burnt it. ⁓ and then all the problems really started getting way more intense. I I wasn't sleeping, I was having trouble eating. So they went to the vicar, ⁓ who was our local parish vicar, and I sang in the choir at the time. ⁓ but it was making me feel really sick going into church. I was feeling physically sick. It was horrible. In fact, it's it's doing it now, just thinking about it. It was making me sick.
Lucy (1:16:03)
⁓ don't demons backfuck! Sorry!
Hana (1:16:04)
Were you, so were you, were you possessed?
Sommer (1:16:07)
And I was like, no, I don't really want to. Well, what I didn't know was the Church of England.
Quietly on the sly, most people don't know about it, but they do have people licensed in exorcism. Now, I I everything that I found out afterwards, everything only ever portrays that it's ⁓ the Vatican that does that kind of thing. Actually, no, the Church of England does have them as well, which I didn't know. And I ended up having to be seen by one of these specialist figures for weeks.
Hana (1:16:33)
Yeah.
So because you were, woo, right, hang on. So you're obviously having this physiological reaction entering the church due to this teddy being burned and that, what, that possession then was in you, do you think, which is...
Sommer (1:16:49)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
It basically released whatever nasty entity was in it and it latched onto me.
Lucy (1:17:05)
Yeah, I was watching a program like this the other day and no matter what, yeah, the same thing happened.
Hana (1:17:09)
⁓ okay. So then it was on you. You were then going into the church and having this reaction of feeling sick. How did that go from that to exorcism?
Sommer (1:17:11)
Yeah.
so because I was having all the nightmares, my auntie spoke to the vicar. Now I didn't know any of that was going on. All I knew was one day I came home from school and there was a vicar I didn't know sitting there. Lovely man. His name was Don. Really sweet, sweet old man. I've never forgotten him. And every week he used to come around and he would chat to me and my family.
⁓ they ended up re-baptizing me and it made a mark and they put a crucifix on me and I got a red mark from that as well. And he just kept working at it and over time it just went away. But it took weeks.
Hana (1:18:09)
What was the red mark significant then is it? Is the red mark significant then? Does that mean something?
Lucy (1:18:09)
on what yet.
Sommer (1:18:12)
How then?
Yeah. So basically it kind of started to burn my skin where where they put the holy seal on my forehead. ⁓ I had like a contact burn and where they had the crucifix on me as well, I had a contact burn.
Hana (1:18:33)
What, because you weren't holy?
Sommer (1:18:36)
Because of the demonic attachment.
Lucy (1:18:37)
Yeah. So, if you were like a demon and we put like an X towards you, you you see in the film, it's like you repel, you like that's the demon repelling, it's the burning inside. Does that make sense? Like same with like vampire. Yeah.
Hana (1:18:43)
Hmm.
⁓ okay. Yeah, that's what I was, yeah. Wow.
Sommer (1:18:48)
Right.
So it's almost like it's been preheated, not too scalding hot, but to hot enough that it leaves a welt.
Hana (1:19:00)
So then he had to keep doing that on you until, like you said, it disappeared. And how did you know then that it finally, did you feel any different?
Sommer (1:19:09)
Yeah. So the shadows stopped stalking me at night. And I stopped feeling that afraid all the time thing again. I I'd stop the fear was unbelievable. Laying in bed at night. To this day, as a repercussion of it, I always have to have a night light on. It it it did leave a it definitely left a mark. Not a physical one, but a mental one, it has definitely left.
Lucy (1:19:31)
See ya.
Don't you remember like, did it ever talk to you? Do you remember how these three...
Sommer (1:19:38)
But it was all
It took me over. So I don't remember anything. ⁓ but there there were two occasions, and this was why they went to the church. So the first one was my mum got told that I nearly got run over. Now, all I remember was standing on the corner of my road.
Doing my looking left, looking right, making sure it was all safe. And the next thing I know, there is a bus stopping like this far away from me.
Lucy (1:20:19)
Yeah.
Sommer (1:20:20)
how did I get from the side of the road to here? I don't remember that at all. ⁓ and the one where it really scared my mum, she had to wrestle. I was just drying up. She was washing up, I was drying up, and I was drying up a knife. And I don't remember anything about it, but.
I said something, I don't even know what I said, but I said something. Mum thought it was a bit weird, so turned around and looked at me. And it was like I was fighting with myself, and I was trying to stab myself with this knife. And Mum literally had to wrestle it out of my hands. And then all of a sudden I snapped back and went, What's going on? And yeah. So she was really freaked out with that, which was why she went to the church and asked for help.
Lucy (1:21:12)
Yeah, it's like a horror film. I mean, you just like walked around with Rosemary like tourmaline and obsidian around you constantly. Like, rowing wood, everything.
Hana (1:21:13)
god.
Sommer (1:21:19)
actually learning I I've have got all of that in my house. I mean
Lucy (1:21:25)
HAHAHAHA! As soon as she came on camera I like, this is my dad and woman. NAAHAHAHAHA!
Hana (1:21:26)
Hahaha!
Sommer (1:21:30)
Yeah, yeah. Honestly, this is it's crystals and and dragon central, my house. It really is. ⁓ Yes.
Hana (1:21:30)
Hahaha!
I don't blame you to be honest after listening to your story I do not I'm
Lucy (1:21:41)
Hannah will be going to bed with a fucking ring of salt around her tonight. yeah, my mum's every day like, what's all this shit outside your door? ⁓
Hana (1:21:43)
Honestly.
Sommer (1:21:45)
I do my salt rituals. yeah, no, that's at the doors and windows. ⁓ No, no, Mum goes, can you come and make sure you do RB as well?
Hana (1:21:51)
Ha ha ha!
Lucy (1:21:55)
AHAHAHAHA
Hana (1:21:55)
⁓ how long were you going through this then? Was it like a matter of months, matter of weeks before it kind of started months? Wow.
Sommer (1:22:03)
it was months. Months and months, yeah.
Lucy (1:22:06)
And how old were you here? Abound.
Sommer (1:22:10)
Mum and I ⁓ kind of struggled, but it was about the same time as the rapes started.
Lucy (1:22:15)
Yeah, do you reckon that was ever linked?
Hana (1:22:17)
Yeah, was it connected?
Sommer (1:22:19)
Well, I I wonder and it was cited because the only member of the family that wouldn't fully engage was the person that was doing the rapes.
Hana (1:22:31)
⁓ I mean, whatever way you look at it, that is must... I mean, I was just thinking like, there's so many elements of your life that you've lived in fear, whether it's like demonic possession, whether it's the rape, the gang rape, the domestic violence, that, know, even the B &B, that fear of, you know, being told off and, you know, it's just, your life has been just full of fear.
Sommer (1:22:36)
It's all messed up.
Lucy (1:22:38)
Yes!
Sommer (1:22:55)
Yeah.
Hana (1:23:00)
you know, that feeling to have constantly just must have been exhausting. And nowadays, if you feel fear, does that trigger you? Or are you so used to that feeling? Like, you know, tell us.
Sommer (1:23:18)
actually I've it's been the last sort of five years where I've realized that a lot of the things that I'd just taken for granted were me, ⁓ were actually high cortisol. my struggles with my digestion, having IBS, actually is because of the permanent state of fear ⁓ that if I get upset, I can't eat.
Hana (1:23:41)
Mm-hmm.
Sommer (1:23:46)
My stomach will just shut down. I feel sick. That's it. I'm done. So these days I do meditation. I do my spiritual stuff. I do somatic stretching. The trauma release from somatics is incredible. I actually I'm a bit of a doubter, despite everything I do, which sounds very strange, but the more I've gone through, the more I've had to believe. Not that I want.
Hana (1:24:13)
Mm.
Sommer (1:24:15)
To believe. And I saw I saw some research about somatic release for trauma. And I thought, how can laying on the bed, doing some movements, get rid of any of this stuff? I mean, seriously, that's a whole load of hooey. Until I tried it. And the very first time I tried it, I had literally rocked my hips about three times.
Lucy (1:24:33)
Mm.
Hana (1:24:34)
Mm-hmm.
Sommer (1:24:44)
Got a big sob in my throat, and that was it. I could not stop crying. And I thought, wow, how it really has. And it tightened all my muscles. And as I started releasing the tension in my muscles, the theory with somatics is that even if the brain doesn't remember.
That actually the trauma and the tension is remaining and stored in your body. So, therefore, if you start releasing the tension, the trauma then starts to release. Now, honestly, I did think it was hooy, but the transformation is unbelievable.
Hana (1:25:13)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lucy (1:25:14)
Yeah.
Hana (1:25:23)
Mm.
Lucy (1:25:30)
So, that's one thing I haven't tried and I need to now because you're not the first person who's come on the pod and said about Somatic.
Sommer (1:25:37)
Yeah. It's I've I've found it transformational, which is a it is a very big thing. I've used everything I've gone through to help other people. So I said that my house was an outreach youth center. ⁓ some of those teenagers, they're now in their mid-40s and we're still friends. We are still friends. They are now my friends and not just teenagers. ⁓
Hana (1:25:39)
I
Did you?
Hmm.
Sommer (1:26:07)
Speaking my truth, and when I've been in my darkest places, and people have accidentally seen it, and I haven't necessarily wanted them to, I have managed to help so many people just by struggling my way through my very strange, chaotic life. But it's been amazing to have people come back, ⁓ some of them 10 years later. The funniest story, I got
Lucy (1:26:23)
Yeah.
Sommer (1:26:35)
I said, I moved away. That was in latter years. ⁓ and about 10 years ago, one of the had been a teenager that is now grown up, phoned me and he said, I know you've moved away. I'd love to come and see you, please. I want you to meet my kids. And I went, that'd be lovely. He said, I'm engaged and I want you to meet her. I went, that's brilliant. So he's traveled to come and see me. And his kids were sitting there like that.
Lucy (1:26:54)
Ugh.
Hana (1:27:05)
you
Sommer (1:27:06)
Just staring at me. What are you looking at me like that for? They went, you're
Hana (1:27:11)
But ⁓
Sommer (1:27:14)
Yeah, I know. And I don't know what your dad's told you, but I think he might have been lying. And they went, he said you're an angel and you saved his life. I went, I didn't. I gave him my sofa to sleep on for two weeks when he was homeless. And he went, but I didn't have anyone else. You did save my life.
Lucy (1:27:17)
AHAHAHAHA
Awwww.
Hana (1:27:23)
⁓
⁓ Summer, honestly, like, that's just incredible. And that lifeline that you gave him allowed him to have that two weeks to start his chapter of his new life. mean, that, what you did.
Lucy (1:27:40)
Yeah.
Sommer (1:27:44)
yeah.
Hana (1:27:47)
and what you have done and what you are doing, know, ⁓ our pod is all about if you know, a story can reach just one person so they can start to get some help. You know, you are already there, you've done it and you're continuing to do it and it's just amazing. And I know that, you know, there's a charity that you're involved in and there's been lots of connections with Sue Townsend and Comic Relief and everything like that. So this seems like a really perfect place to kind of start bringing your story.
Lucy (1:28:15)
Mm.
Hana (1:28:17)
to the most incredible end. So talk to us about the charity work, comic relief and everything that you want to tell us about.
Sommer (1:28:22)
Yeah. So after going back to I used my lifeline after the death of the boyfriend, knowing that that was definitely going to be a trigger. And I phoned them all and went, please help me. And they went, Okay, come back. So I went back and they counseled me and the kids. And they were funded by Comet Relief. And it was coming up and they were getting their press
Releases and publicity, doing all the filming, ready for comic relief. and they asked everybody there if they fancied giving their story. And it could be anonymously if you wanted to. ⁓ and everybody said no. And I went, ⁓ I've I've excuse my language, a bit of a gobsite. And I might as well use it for something positive. So I agreed.
Lucy (1:29:14)
Hahaha
Sommer (1:29:19)
And I gave my life story and it was used as part of the fundraising for comic relief in two thousand and three.
Lucy (1:29:26)
Bye.
Hana (1:29:26)
⁓ amazing.
Sommer (1:29:28)
Yeah, it was it was a fantastic experience. I spent a whole day with Sue Townsend. She is an incredible lady. I would love to say that. She is absolutely amazing. She was telling me about her life, which she certainly didn't have to do under the circumstances. But we had some one-on-one personal conversations, and she was genuinely.
Lucy (1:29:45)
Yeah.
Sommer (1:29:53)
Absolutely amazing. I I will always remember spending the day with her. But I had a professional photo shoot on Brighton Beach. I've still got the photos. It was anonymous back then. And that's why I wanted to do the podcast. I've done this, but anonymously all of my life. If I've spoken, I've only spoken to people that I know. One of the strangest things, you're right. You know, if you can reach somebody, that's amazing.
Hana (1:30:00)
He
Mm.
Lucy (1:30:16)
Hmm.
Sommer (1:30:23)
You've skipped the biggest step and the biggest surprise for me. It's not about somebody going and getting a help necessarily. It's about knowing you are not alone. You are not the only one. There are so many other people out there. It's in speaking these truths that I've found people.
Lucy (1:30:38)
Yeah.
Hana (1:30:38)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Lucy (1:30:42)
Hmm.
Sommer (1:30:52)
Who needed to hear it for their own personal reasons. And at that point, when they find somebody who gets it, they then find strength. We find strength in numbers. We're all only mammals, after all. We are social creatures. And we need a network, whether it's given family, chosen family, friends, whatever.
Hana (1:30:55)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Lucy (1:31:10)
Hmm.
Sommer (1:31:21)
We need that connection. And more often than not, trauma surviving and thriving from it, not just getting through, is in finding a place where you do not feel like you are different or less than.
Hana (1:31:23)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean, you smashed that. I mean, it's literally, yeah, literally, that's our new tagline.
Lucy (1:31:43)
Yeah! Put that on a reel. Yeah! ⁓ It is.
Sommer (1:31:48)
You gonna you can get a few reels out of this. You'll be all right. ⁓
Hana (1:31:52)
It's our new tagline for sure because that is exactly, exactly what it is. And you know, your story is unique, everyone's story is unique, but what isn't is the emotions and the feelings that are attached to different elements of people's lives. So the fear that you've experienced, someone else will be experiencing the emotion fear, but attached to something completely different. But that still is that connection that they are not alone, that there is someone, yourself, or any of our incredible previous guests that they can relate to.
Sommer (1:32:05)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Hana (1:32:21)
is exactly what the podcast is about. It's about that relatability, that finally going, I feel like that's my person. There's elements of that story that I can relate to. Maybe I can make it through and survive and thrive. And it's why we share resources. It's why we always talk about maybe charities that someone has really felt connected to. We wanna put all of that out there. And we cannot do this podcast without people like yourself coming on, being vulnerable, being honest. Like you said, you've hidden away
Sommer (1:32:22)
Yeah.
Hana (1:32:52)
for a long time and you've decided to speak your truth like you said to continue to help and you have done so much already and we're so excited to see what you do in the future and be able to use your you know trauma your experiences everything you've gone through you've flipped that switch you flip that perspective you're sat here like Lou said earlier so positive after everything you've been through you're an absolute insane
Lucy (1:32:53)
Yeah.
Sommer (1:32:53)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lucy (1:33:15)
Yeah.
Hana (1:33:21)
and I just, we just hope that you live the rest of your life with the love and the kindness that you deserve.
Sommer (1:33:30)
Thank you so much.
Hana (1:33:33)
I mean, that's it. We're gonna end it with our signature question, Summer. There's nothing more to say. Honestly, we're just, yeah, blown away. But we do ask the same question at the end of every single episode. So after everything, who is Summer becoming now?
Lucy (1:33:36)
Hahaha
Sommer (1:33:50)
So summer is and will continue to be. I work helping people. That's who I am. That's what I do. And that is definitely the best thing that I can do for the world. So I'm qualified ⁓ in mental health and I've worked with trauma survivors because birds of a feather. So I will continue to look after the elderly, the disabled, and the traumatized.
Lucy (1:34:10)
Ahahaha, what?
HAHAHAHA
Hana (1:34:17)
Hahaha
Sommer (1:34:18)
And I will just keep spreading the positivity and showing people that a singular trauma is traumatic and that's okay, but you don't have to let it destroy you or define you. It's just part of your story.
Lucy (1:34:21)
Yeah.
⁓ no, honestly. And also for people who are wondering, it's CBT she's trained in as well. Summer, we had this conversation, we, before we started, not CBD. Yeah! She got many of qualifications. ⁓
Hana (1:34:42)
Nope. ⁓
Sommer (1:34:43)
Yeah. No.
Hana (1:34:48)
And then our regular listeners probably will remember an episode where we talked about CBT and Lucy thought it was CBD. And if you haven't go back. ⁓ But no, thank you so.
Lucy (1:34:55)
for about 20 minutes. That's my medication. I brought some CBD off a witch. Only a few weeks ago.
Sommer (1:35:04)
Yeah.
Hana (1:35:04)
Yeah, Lucy, you're embarking on a new journey, aren't you, down that route. So we have got maybe some witch episodes coming up in the future. But no, thank you so much so much. Yeah.
Lucy (1:35:10)
Hehehehehe
Sommer (1:35:15)
Speak to you again then.
Lucy (1:35:16)
Yeah, no, honestly, I'm actually excited. Sorry listeners to get off the pod to talk to Summer a little bit more, but I'm sure she might be back.
Hana (1:35:23)
Yeah, we are looking for a witch episode, so yeah, let's do it. ⁓ But no.
Lucy (1:35:29)
Yeah
Hana (1:35:32)
Thank you so much for coming on, for finding us, for reaching out. It's been an amazing conversation. You know, you're all inspiring and we're just so grateful for your honesty and yeah, telling us everything about your life and just making us do this at any opportunity. Because that's kind of what happened throughout the whole episode.
Lucy (1:35:51)
And I love it how we thought, so we're gonna round this bit up and then we predict that's what's happened. No, ⁓ okay.
Hana (1:35:57)
Hahaha ⁓
Well, we are going to leave you to go and have some rest because it has been a long draining, I imagine for you, exhausting conversation, you know, going over everything. But yeah, for anyone that wants to continue to listen to amazing guests like Summer, go back and have a look at all our previous episodes. We are so incredibly lucky and grateful that we get to speak to people like Summer. Yeah.
Lucy (1:36:22)
And yeah, and I'm sure Summer will let us share her handles and if you want to get in touch with you for any therapy or healing or anything like that, we can show them where to go in your way. we will share that with our Summery and obviously on our social media there as well. So, take advantage. Yeah. ⁓ no, I absolutely loved it in the nicest possible way.
Sommer (1:36:27)
Yeah.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Hana (1:36:38)
Yeah.
Sommer (1:36:39)
Fantastic. Thank you so much, ladies. It's it's been an honour and a pleasure.
Hana (1:36:48)
Yeah.
Sommer (1:36:49)
Ha ha ha.
Lucy (1:36:50)
But on that note, I'm gonna say a goodbye from myself.
Hana (1:36:54)
So goodbye from me.
Lucy (1:36:56)
and our lovely guest. Alright! Bye!
Sommer (1:36:56)
And goodbye from me.
Bye.
Hana (1:37:02)
Damn!