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Even the most prominent voices in Sales were crap at Sales once.
Join bestselling Author, Founder and Sales Coach Mark Ackers as he speaks with successful Sales professionals about their early Sales struggles, and how they overcame these challenges to become the people they are today.
Mark Ackers: If you're enjoying
the I used to be crap at sales
podcast. Show us some love,
please. Like, share, subscribe
to the podcast. Help us grow and
spread the word what's coming up
in today's episode. Do
Mark Walker: not pay sales
people permission. It drives all
the wrong behaviours, and
everyone's jaw dropped. They've
gone from five to over 100
billion like. Unbelievable
story. None of their sales
teamwork
Mark Ackers: commission. That's
obviously a big part of why
people work in sales and the
highs being the highs, the lows
been the lows, the commission
that comes in. He's been a three
time CRO a go to market coach, a
mentor at TechStars, and, scale
wise, a long term pavilion
leader and now the founder and
CEO at revved up. But before all
of that, he cut his teeth in
marketing, leading brand and
growth at Eventbrite, and then
moving to a test in a similar
role. Today's guest is Mark
Walker. Did you used to be crap
at sales?
Mark Walker: Yes, I did. I saw
them the dream of there being in
front of 100 key decision
makers, and the event just
didn't pan out that way. There
was maybe like 20 people in the
booth. So this sponsor was not
very happy at all. Brand is
probably the biggest driver of
sales and closing deals, but
it's impossible to attribute
directly, and that's why so many
people are missing
Mark Ackers: their revenue. I've
heard many a marketer say this,
well, I want some commission,
then I would
Mark Walker: actually rot trying
to finesse the attribution model
of how much did Martin
contribute to this number? How
much did sales contribute to
this number? If you want them to
have the same level of ownership
that a sales team does, then why
wouldn't you also give them
performance driven metrics?
Mark Ackers: How imperative
would you say great Account
Based Marketing is in today's
sales landscape,
Mark Walker: bland campaigns
that don't directly speak to
specific accounts still much
more difficult to actually get
the level of depth that's
required for ABM. That's what
helps cut through. What
Mark Ackers: kind of percent do
you think can really get an
Account Based Marketing? Right?
Very few right now. Where's the
quick fixes?
Mark Walker: The fixes with
Mark Ackers: Hello and welcome
to another episode of The I used
to be crap at sales podcast. I'm
your host. Mark Akers, the co
founder and Head of Sales here
at my sales coach and today's
guest brings a new background
and work experience that's so
far been uncovered in the
podcast. Sure, he's got the
sales and leadership and
coaching experience. He's also
coached hundreds of founders and
sales leaders along the way.
Today's theme is what sales can
learn from marketing and what
founders learn on the front
lines. Mark, welcome to the
podcast. How are you? Mark,
thank you so much. I'm great.
Really excited to be here. I've
listened to several of these
episodes. It's a brilliant
podcast. So delighted to be part
of it, and yeah, life's pretty
good right now. Fantastic. Yeah,
you just telling me off camera.
It sounds like a really exciting
time at revved up. And I
certainly want to hear all about
that and share that with the
audience. But before we can get
into any of that, we have to
start with our Yes. No. Question
Mark Walker, did you used to be
crap at sales? Yes, yes, I did.
When you say yes, yes, I did. Is
there a point in your career
that really springs to mind very
clearly, and it was my first job
out of university. What I was
selling was conferences, my B to
B conferences, specifically in
the pharmaceuticals industry,
there were two different types
of sales that you had to do
there. One was delegate sales,
so people buying the tickets.
Now I didn't actually do that
myself. I had to try and manage
a sales team, having never done
sales, which is maybe a
different story. But you also
had to try and sell your own
sponsorship. So that was
slightly bigger ticket sales.
You intended to try and do 510,
20k, deals with sometimes
pretty, pretty large
organisations. And because it's
my first job out of university,
I'm cutting my teeth. I got a
lot of the crappier products,
the the events that didn't have
great sponsorship reputation. So
yeah, I was just hitting the
phones trying to sell
sponsorships to these no named
events that I was producing and
putting on. And it was a
struggle. It was. It was a
pretty steep learning curve. I
did make some sales, but I
probably lost way more than I
could have made. Have you got a
particular story from that time
that you can look back on that's
quite funny now, but perhaps a
mistake or a howler, if you
will, that you made. The most
painful memory from that time
was a sale I did make, and we
didn't deliver value to them,
right? So it's a slightly
different tangent than not
having made the sale, but it was
quite cringy. I sold, I sold to
this business and sold them the
dream of there'd be in front of
Mark Walker: key decision
makers. And the event just
didn't pan out that way for
various reasons, largely outside
of our control. And there was
maybe like 20 people in the
room, so this sponsor was not
very happy at all. So that was
quite painful. And just dealing
with that taught me a lot around
mitigating angry people in
general. But also, just like
having confidence in what you
sell is so important, and that
knocked my confidence, and that.
Really impacted future sales,
right? Because I didn't know
whether we could deliver the
value that I had to give to
future sponsors. And it took
moving, I would say it took
moving to the next company that
had better products, that I had
more control over, to really
build my confidence back up. So,
you know, one of my earlier
sales lessons was you have to
believe in what you're selling,
otherwise it just comes through,
right? Whoever you're selling to
can feel whether you believe in
Mark Ackers: it or not. I think
a lot of people will resonate
with that. I think people
sometimes confuse you gotta love
what you sell versus having
confidence in it. When I look
back at my career, I feel like
I've always had confidence in
what I sold, but I can certainly
relate to doing demos where
you're not quite sure if you
press this button that the next
page is going to load. I
remember, actually, I had all
the tabs open and I would jump
from tab to tab rather than go
for it. And I got called out on
that, I can see what you're
doing, Mark you're going from
tab to tab rather than clicking
through the platform. And that
lack of confidence because the
product's not quite there can be
quite impactful. Fortunately, it
was a long time ago in my in my
career, that's a nice segue. And
call this out early doors, bring
it up. You and I, we actually
crossed paths. I think it was
2017 maybe the start of 2018 you
were, I think you were in the
CRO role at a test at this
point. So you'd gone from
marketing to CRO, and it was in
my early days as an AE at
refract. I'd probably got about
five years sales experience, but
really probably had the same
year five times. And I remember
I was dealing with your
colleague, Hillary at the time,
who's actually now a coach at my
sales coach small world, and she
said, there's just one last
thing, Mark, you need to meet
our CRO Mark Walker and present
to him. I did, and we got the
deal over the line. And I loved
working with you during our
time. But, yeah, I'm curious,
what do you remember of that
demo discovery I did
Mark Walker: with you? Funny
enough, I don't remember that
many sales calls, but I do
remember this one, so you'll be
happy to hear that. Well, I
don't know. It depends what you
about to say, No, it's for good
reasons. So before you joined
the call, this is critical. I
knew who you were ish because of
the video that you did on
LinkedIn that went viral, where
you were teaching your cousin, I
think, or like, it was a nine
year old. I can't remember
whether it's your cousin or like
a friend's kid. I don't know
whether Hillary shared it with
me or I came across it
organically, but either way,
that was a wonderful bit of
content that built an enormous
amount of trust and credibility
with you as an individual. When
we first spoke, I'd already
built a perception in my mind
about you being an expert in
this space that really helped
significantly. And then I do
remember, I think there was
probably two or three things
that I think you did really well
during during that call, right?
The first is, you actually
didn't leave any assumptions on
the table, right? You sent,
checked and queried and we went
over everything, instead of kind
of glossing things over. You try
to unpick things and just just
hear firsthand. Are these the
problems that I was experiencing
as the CRO attest, which I
thought was quite refreshing.
You didn't try and rush anything
through. The second piece was
there was a key integration
missing, or in the pipeline, or
something. I can't, can't quite
remember exactly, but I do
remember that was an objection,
and you handled it like really
well, right? Because it was a it
was a big thing for us. It was a
great experience of how to do
discovery.
Mark Ackers: Well, I remember
having and like you say, I don't
remember every discovery call,
but I do remember meeting you
for that first time and feeling
like it went well. For those
wondering, the clip you're
referring to, that was actually
Kevin, my co founder and the CEO
of my sales coach. It was his
son. We did a bit of a social
experiment where I coached him
to make cold calls, and then he
did some cold calling that day,
just sort of warm, friendly
faces, but they were still not
really knowing when the call was
going to come or what the
purpose of it was. And, yeah, I
think that video, certainly in
my realm, went viral. I think it
was like, you know, half a
million impressions, pretty much
out the gate, and lots of
comments, etc. But I think the
key thing that I want to take
from this is social selling that
brand. And you use the word
critical, you're saying that was
critical to your sales
experience. Was my called it
brand. It probably wasn't a
brand back then, but what might
felt like one was that social
presence that I'd managed to get
online on LinkedIn made you feel
like you trusted me in that
credibility straight away. This
will date the podcast slightly,
but you'd have seen the cool
screening that Apple have
released that's coming out in
September. I did a webinar, and
I'm curious to get your take on
this. One of the things I said
in this webinar was, I think
this is opportunity. First of
all, if I just picked up the
phone and dialled, let's say I
dialled you now, my phone number
would just pop up. If you
haven't got me saved, you'd look
at that and you just think, Ah,
I don't know who this is, not
sure. I've actually got the
chance to promote it to you. You
know that call screen could say
it's Mark acres. I think you saw
the video of me coaching Joe,
the 10 year old, to make cold
calls. Yeah, you're more likely
to answer it. And I made the
argument now that when I recruit
sales people, the first thing I
do is I look at their LinkedIn
before, before a CV, and I look
to see, do they sell socially?
Do they write LinkedIn posts?
Are they engaging? Have they got
500 plus connections? As it is a
in the past, I've sort of made
the excuse. Oh, well, they don't
do that, but look how credible
their background, their CV,
their results, are still gonna
go with this person. I feel like
now it's non negotiable when
hiring a salesperson in this
space, they've gotta have a
social brand. But I know maybe
that's just me. What do you
think?
Mark Walker: I think it's
getting towards that non
negotiable? I don't know if I'm
quite all the way there, but
it's definitely tipping towards
that so very similar to your
point around the phone screening
technology, right? One of the
things that a lot of people
don't realise with cold email,
right? There's, there's a lot of
talk around cold emails, dead
and so on, and it is absolutely
harder and harder to cut through
with cold email. One of the
things that's so, so important
to the efficacy of it is, if you
get an email from someone you
recognise, you are going to open
it, right? So again, if you have
built some kind of brand
presence and credibility in your
space, and you then send emails
to people, they are so much more
likely to open it. It's going to
trump the best subject line.
It's definitely going to trump
any personalization you can put
in it. It's who that email is
from, right? My mum does not
have to personalise an email for
me to open it, right? It's from
someone I know. Maybe that's a
bad example, right? I'd probably
put that one in the in the spam
folder, but, yeah, that brand
presence and credibility is
super, super important now, and
there's two parts to it, right?
One is, does the company have a
strong brand, right? It's
there's a reason it's easier to
sell the sales force or a gong
than it would be from one of
their challenger brands, because
there's a lot of credit
credibility with the brand. But
as you said, particularly if
you're selling at an SMB, if you
yourself have built a bit of a
brand reputation, and you email
someone that's engaged with your
posts, you don't even need to
say, Hey, I saw you liked my
post. I actually often think
that doesn't come across that
well, but just the fact that you
are sending emails to someone
that already knows who you are
is going to make it much more
likely that they open it and
engage with it. And maybe one
final point, you shouldn't
always care just about the
vanity metrics when it comes to
social posting. And the reason I
say this is I post regularly,
and I don't have huge numbers of
impressions or likes, right? I
just post regularly, and I
believe that it drives good
results. Why do I say this two
things. One, I go to a lot of
events. I typically will go to
an event every single week, and
I cannot remember the last time
I went to an event and someone
didn't say, Hey, Mark, I
recognise you that I didn't know
I see you posting all the time
on LinkedIn, and I had no idea
that they followed me. No idea
they're not showing up in my
metrics, but it's qualitatively.
It's having valuable impact on
my brand and reputation within
the industry that I care about.
So yeah, it's it's not always
showing up in the metrics, but
it's absolutely, categorically
working. And then on top of
that, I will get direct DMS and
organic outreach coming back.
And I know it's hard to connect.
But I know it's coming from
LinkedIn, because they'll say,
Oh, I saw this post. So yeah,
lots of good reasons there that
people should be investing in
building their brand on
Mark Ackers: LinkedIn. I totally
agree. Yeah, I think I'm at the
point. Now, if you're not doing
it, I'd say it's non negotiable.
And to your point, even if
someone's not actively engaging,
there sort of that Lurker, if
you will. But here's what I do
know. Before you meet someone,
they're likely to look at your
LinkedIn profile. Even though
they just scan your content,
they'll say, okay, because there
is this almost illusion that if
you're writing and putting
yourself out there, you must
know what you're talking about.
And I see that happen all the
time. Let's talk about your
early sales experience, because
you have, we're talking just off
camera that you've had such a
varied career, like events,
conferences, marketing, revenue.
Where do you believe you
actually learn how to sell?
Mark Walker: I don't know. There
is, there is a singular moment
where, you know the light
appeared and it's like, I now
can sell. It's definitely been
an evolution of over time, and I
think I've learned bits and
pieces from each role, each
colleague that I've worked with,
I've picked up bits and pieces
along the way. I guess the most
sales centric role that I had
when I really started to
consider myself better at sales
was when I got to a test and I
started to move from pure
marketing to looking after the
whole revenue function, and I
just immerse myself in
everything and anything I could
find around sales. I listened to
every podcast, read every blog
post, bought books. It's when I
joined pavilion and I would pick
anyone's brains that you could
imagine. Imagine I'd have hour
long calls with people. I'd join
these dinners and so on. So I
just completely immersed myself.
But most importantly, I then
practised it, because I got to
then practice the theory
speaking to prospects all the
time and seeing what worked and
what didn't. I would say that's
where I genuinely good at sales,
but I definitely had various
experiences in sales along the
way. And one other moment, I
think it was before I was at
Eventbrite, and someone wants
remarks to me. They're like,
man, you're good at sales, or
you should. You should be in
sales. It was some kind of
remark by that. And I remember
thinking, No, I'm not a
salesperson. And the reason they
said that is because I built
trust and credibility very
quickly with prospects by being
a product expert. I really knew
in and out what I was trying to
say, again, I wasn't technically
a salesperson, but what maybe a
bit of context. In this role, I
owned the event. So I owned the
P and L and the overall revenue
for this event, and that
included everything from, you
know, creating the agenda to to
the sponsorship revenue number,
the delegate sales revenue
number, the marketing of the
event, and so on and so forth.
So part of my role was
interfacing with sponsors, even
though I wasn't specifically
sponsorship sales. That's where
the sponsors were just warm to
me and I built that credibility.
And the sales team were like,
Hey, be good at sales, right?
You were helping make the sale.
That was a really nice moment
earlier, before I considered
myself truly in sales and
revenue.
Mark Ackers: And it's
interesting, because being an
expert in the product means you
can recommend the right things.
But one of the things that I
found in my career is it's all
well and good, be an expert in
the product, but you have to be
an expert in your ICP their
world. Why they go to work, what
problems they really have? How
do they moan about those
problems at the dinner table?
And I remember there was a
moment in my career when I
realised I've just onboarded
people to become product
experts. I listened to their
demos, and everything sounded
like it was being run by a very
technical person and just wasn't
connecting with the ICP. I'm
wondering, did your background
and time in marketing help you
with that shift into into sales,
or was there anything you had to
unlearn. It's a good
Mark Walker: question. Firstly,
I'd agree with the observation,
right? Like one of my bug bears
that I think I've posted about
on LinkedIn a few times, is
people get onboarding wrong.
They should spend way more time
on onboarding people in the
market and the customer's
problems than they should in the
product, right? And usually it's
like an hour of here's an ICP
definition. That's all you get.
Now, all we're going to do is
talk about the product in terms
of, like, what I learned from
marketing and that has benefited
sales and maybe some pieces that
haven't. So again, marketing,
ideally you should be good at
storytelling, right? So being
able to simplify and tell the
good narrative is something that
a lot of people don't do well.
In sales, they focus on the
features and even like features
benefits, but they don't craft a
story or a narrative. Again, in
marketing, if you are going to
create good campaigns and good
overarching narratives. If
you're doing marketing Well, it
has to be based on deep research
and understanding of your
market. And so one of the things
when I was leading marketing and
sales is I would always ask the
marketing team to specifically
listen to sales calls at least
once a week, twice a week, right
to actually understand the
language being used by the
prospects. Otherwise, how can
you do good marketing? I do
think a mistake that I see from
marketing is is they think
theoretically or abstractly
about the market, and they don't
actually understand exactly how
a prospect speaks, and they also
don't understand the challenges
that sales are facing, either,
right? So there's two parts to
this that you get from listening
to discovery calls and so on.
So. So one is what actual
language is the prospect using?
Like, are they calling it x, and
we're trying to call it y, and
then the second piece is hearing
those, hearing the objections
that sales is facing, should
really help Martin think about,
well, here's what we need to we
need to create these sales
enablement materials. Or, Oh,
man, we we keep hearing this and
we don't have a case study for
it, or we don't have this battle
card prepared, or we don't have
a story to tell around this
particular lack of functionality
and why we've invested more over
here so you get the best ideas
from listening to real calls
that can be put back into mock
Mark Ackers: looking to unlock
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the bio and start achieving your
goals today, and it feels like
what you're saying there, it's
just so obvious and in today's
world, when call recording and
conversation intelligence
products exist and you can share
transcripts and review calls and
clips really easily, every body
in the company should be doing
that, let alone marketing, but
it feels like what you're
talking about really, you were
ahead of your time thinking like
that, because we're going back
earlier on in your career, when
you were in a marketing role,
and it's interesting that it
sort of brought back memories
for me. So I started out in
marketing as well. When I did my
student placement, I did it at
Sunderland Football Club, and I
remember the marketing manager
made a comment that, why are we
sat in a different office to the
sales team? And at the time, I
thought, Oh, I'm glad I'm glad
we are. They're bloody noisy.
They're on their phones all the
time. I get my work done. But he
made this big push that we
should all be sat in the same
room. We should all be talking
to each other. We should be
hearing how they sell. They
should be feeding back to us
from a marketing point of view.
And he never quite got his own
way, and it felt like sales
consistently misunderstood
marketing and marketing
consistently misunderstood
sales. Where do you commonly see
the two departments misfiring
with each other? It sounds like
language is an example, but have
you got some other tidbits there
for us? Yeah, language is a huge
one. I think the number one root
cause of a lot of misalignment
is a misalignment in in goals
and metrics. That's pretty much
the the root cause in many
scenarios. So the classic setup
in SAS was to create this, yeah,
factory, factory style funnel,
where marketing were tasked with
MQLs. And those MQLs get handed
over to SDRs to qualify into
SQL, and then obviously, from
SQL to ops going through to the
AES. The challenge with that was
there's two challenges. One,
marketing just stopped caring at
MQL, right? Because that is how
they're bonus, and that's how
they're metric. Metrices, gold.
Let's use an easier word,
Mark Walker: and and so how
often have you seen sales teams
just tearing their hair out that
marketing celebrating having hit
their MQL, MQL goal for the
quarter, and there's no pipeline
that they can close, right?
Because they're not actually
connected.
And so that that's one major
issue. And then the other piece
is the definition of that MQL
and whether it actually lines up
to what sales can can close, I
would say that's like a number
one root cause and and I think
the idea that marketing just
generate junk leads and MQLs for
the sake of it, then leads to a
lack of trust and credibility
from the sales team, right? And
that that pervades many, many
organisations. Because if you
grew up in that environment, you
know, and you were selling and
marketing that type of
environment, you know, seven,
eight years ago, you've probably
lost faith in marketing as
you've gone on to other
organisations as well. I've
certainly had that frustration
in my in my career, you know,
marketers creating content, I'm
just like, What is this? It
doesn't reflect the
conversations that I'm having.
It uses different language, the
stereotype of creating junk
leads. I would say that is the
meme that when I see that pop up
on like Instagram, where
marketing sending a lead to
sales, and so that makes me
laugh the most because I've just
lived in that world, and it does
feel like it's changing. I've
got a number of friends that
work in Marketing, and a couple
of them have recently been
acquired. They've said to me
all, it's all changing. Our
marketing metrics now are
revenue based, and they're
uncomfortable with that, and
it's so different. What about
you? When in your marketing days
in Have you had the revenue KPIs
before, or have you more focused
on the MQLs? So again, earlier
in the career, when I was head
of growth at Eventbrite, it was
much more heavily MQL based.
Maybe didn't drive all the right
behaviours, although I would
like to think that we tracked
how many of those MQLs did
ultimately turn into
opportunities and turn into
revenue. We had a really great
run over the three years I was,
I was driving that my default
thinking was MQL, right? Because
that is how I was measured in my
role. And if I did anything
else, I wouldn't necessarily
get, get the credit for it. And
so the real shift in thinking
was when I, I got to a test and
I was, I was like, Well, look,
we're an early stage company,
right? There's nowhere to hide.
If I generate pipeline or MQLs
and it doesn't close, the whole
business is in a bad state,
right? So I have to drive all of
my mentality to closing
business, right? If I don't do
that, then what's the point in
doing the.
Marketing side of things, so
that really shifted my focus and
and all the metrics that we
looked at were built up from,
are we driving, driving the
revenue number? Ultimately, I
think there's a big challenge.
It's okay in a smaller
organisation, because you can
all be one team, it's kind of
easier to track things. And you
can shout across the room,
right? Oh yeah, I see so and
so's close, and it's maybe not
showing up in the revenue
attribution model, but we know
that we met them at that event,
whatever, right like, it's just
a little bit easier to try and
connect the dots in a wider
organisation. It is inherently
political, because you your
marketing budget and your head
count and so on is probably
going to get set by these
attribution metrics that have to
be trackable, and so I've heard
this right in organisations
where sales are screaming for
particular case studies or
battle cards or like certain
things that marketing is the
best equipped to provide, but
they will not provide them
because they won't show up in
any attribution model, so they
will not get any credit for it,
and therefore their budgets and
their numbers and so on, they
will be the ones getting raked
over the calls. There's just a
fundamental issue with
attribution and modelling in a
lot of modern day revenue teams.
Mark Ackers: So let's imagine I
dropped you in stereotypical
company that's got that problem.
Maybe someone's listening to
that and they they recognise
this problem. What are some of
the things that you would do, or
even suggest, maybe as a coach,
to try and fix that?
Mark Walker: This is not a
popular opinion. Some people
might say it's naive, but I
disagree otherwise. I wouldn't
hold it as an opinion. So what I
would try and do is convince the
rest of the leadership team, or
if I just had the magic one to
do it, where I would actually
drop the trying to finesse the
attribution model of how much
did marketing contribute to this
number? How much did sales
contribute to this number?
Because that is inherently what
drives politics and infighting
and the sharp elbows. And I
would just look at the number.
Did we hit the number this
quarter? Or did we not hit the
number this quarter, and we are
all winning, or we are all
losing together as a team? Now
that is deeply antithetical to
how most most organisations are
run, and I get deeply
uncomfortable, because if you
don't hit the number, how do you
start to dissect it, right? How
do you start to understand and
if you did hit the number, how
do you then try and optimise
your spend going forward? Right?
Because there might be a bunch
of dead weight that's been
carried, but it does solve an
enormous number of sins by
saying, don't worry too much
about whether this exact event,
this exact webinar, whether 15%
of budget spent on PPC was the
exact right, right number,
because that that often ends up
with weird over optimization as
well. So slightly chunky example
that I usually give is football
team, 11 players who's going to
get the attribution most of the
time, it's the striker, right?
It's your forward, because
they're the ones most likely
score the goals. So you go, Huh,
well, the defenders didn't do
much here for this game. So you
start to get rid of your
defenders and then your
midfielders and your keeper and
so on, and you end up with a
team of 11 strikers. They're not
going to perform very well,
right? But that's how we set up
revenue teams, right? We say,
well, who's got the last touch?
Maybe there's a bit of first
touch attribution. All your
money goes to there, and then
you're missing the messiness of
today's modern buyer. And again,
like going back to our point
around building brand and
perception on social, if it
doesn't show up in the numbers,
you won't do it, but it's such a
miss, and that's why so little
money gets spent on brand when
it comes to marketing. And brand
is probably the biggest driver
of sales and closing deals, but
it's impossible to attribute
directly, and that's why so many
people are missing their revenue
number, because they haven't
built the trust and credibility
that gets those deals over the
line because they won't invest
in brand, because you can't
prove the ROI, and so marketing
doesn't do it, and everyone
suffers. There you go. There's
my soap box piece. So
Mark Ackers: there's a lot to
break down there. I think the
key thing that I'm taking from
what you're saying is you need
to measure together as a team,
sales and marketing. We've got
different goals that serve
different motivations, and like
you say, like politics, and I've
seen those play out in
organisations. The first
challenge that I've seen play
out when you start to have those
conversations, and I've heard
many a marketer say this, well,
I want some commission. Then
what do you think
Mark Walker: about that? Again,
difference between commission
and bonus? I've mostly worked in
organisations that have had a
bonus driven marketing team,
where you want marketing to
share the sharp end of revenue,
then they should also share in
the upside as well. So everyone
complains that marketing are the
colouring in department, or
they're doing the jump jump
leads and so on. If you want
them to have the same level of
ownership that a. Sales team
does and essentially carry
quota, then why wouldn't you
also give them performance
driven metrics? Now, it might
not be straight up commission
like a sales team, and this is,
again, it's a difficult debate.
I don't know whether there is a
singular correct answer to this
marketing in a mid market to
enterprise type motion where a
sales rep is needed to close the
deal, marketing can't close the
deal for them, right? So they
can't actually drive the revenue
number themselves, but they can
massively help contribute
towards it, and they can also do
all the wrong behaviours to mean
you don't get the revenue
number. So I think they should
take a share of the spoils,
maybe not commissioned, but
absolutely be bonus driven. And
is
Mark Ackers: that what you put
in place in previous
organisations? You beat them,
yeah, and it's what
Mark Walker: we're doing at Rev
death as well. The marketing
team will have a revenue number
and they will have a bonus
attached to
Mark Ackers: it. Do you think,
let's just say we meet up again
in 10 years time? Is that gonna
be more common? Or do you think
that's just not gonna happen
widespread across other
organisations. My
Mark Walker: take is it should
be more common. Will it be every
time you have a crystal ball,
you look silly, right? But,
yeah, I actually think it will
be. I mean, it's super
interesting. The whole
commission like, how do you
drive behaviours through
incentives? I sat next to a
dinner. This was a while back,
like a year ago with the CRO of
a pretty large organisation, and
they'd driven incredible
success. I think they've gone
from five to over 100 million
like, unbelievable story. And
everyone's jaw dropped when they
said none of their sales team
were commissioned right. They
just did base. They're like, it
drives the right behaviours and
everyone's just like, No, it's
impossible. Like, how do you
attract the right talent? How do
you retain them? How do you just
like, This is how you do it.
Absolutely, 100% believe in it.
Do not pay sales people
Commission. It drives all the
wrong behaviours. There's
different models for different
businesses that will work.
There's no one size fits all.
But maybe the world will go
towards no commission for sales
and marketing, or maybe it will
go all the other way, and
everyone will get commission and
bonuses across the board. I'm
just looking at BEC
Mark Ackers: when you say sales
people should not get
commission, I'm sitting there
going, that's the headline we're
leading with Marvel, because
that's such a Beatty topic,
right? That makes me feel
emotional, like, that's
obviously a big part of why
people work in sales, and the
highs being the highs, the low
has been the lows, the
commission that comes in. When
you heard that we don't pay
salespeople commission. Did you
lean in and go, go on, I'm
listening. Or did you think
ridiculous?
Mark Walker: I thought both. I
was like, this is the most nuts
thing I've ever come across. And
funnily enough, it was at a very
similar time that I was speaking
to a really great sales, sales
rep slash set. They were a
player coach, and they were in
an organisation that wouldn't do
commission, and they hated it,
right? They hated it. They
really felt like it was stopping
them bringing in talent, and
ultimately they left because of
it. So I had these two twin
views of here's where it's
definitely not working. And
Sarah absolutely swear in blind
that it does, and it was a key
part of the success. So I was
very curious, and I absolutely
leaned in, and I left the dinner
going, do you know what? This
really makes sense. This could
be the new model. Would I do? It
absolutely not. Is the is the
answer? I'm not brave enough. It
all made logical sense at a
level. But yeah, I'm building a
team here at revved up, and I'm
absolutely going to build it on
a commission base. I just can't,
I cannot shift my mindset so
radically from sales being
connected to some some kind of
commission step too far for me.
But it really made sense when
they were explaining it and they
they swap line.
Mark Ackers: Let's try and get
them on as a as a guest. Here's
something else I've been really
critical of Mark in on LinkedIn.
It doesn't happen often, but
maybe one in 40 or 50
conversations I have sales
development teams in particular
report into marketing. Just
gonna put out there. Don't like
it? It's not for me. What do you
think?
Mark Walker: Oh, this is a good
one. Then I think it's going to
become more common, and I'm
actually in favour of it.
Mark Ackers: Oh, God, right.
Okay, let's have this
conversation then. So should I
start with why I don't like it?
Please, please. Yeah. So first
of all, actually, it largely
leans into kind of what you've
said is wrong, how they're
measured differently. It's a
little bit like the problem I've
had in the past with outbound
telesales agencies. I've dabbled
with them in the past, but I've
always felt like their agenda
was different to mine. They
wanted to be able to say, there
you go, there's 10 leads. We've
done our job. But I'm like,
Yeah, but these are 10 crap
leads that they're no good, but
they're measured on the volume.
I need the quality, and maybe
largely the reason you're in
favour of it is because you want
to instal the right behaviours.
Maybe that's what we're going to
get to. But I've always felt
like, if you're at SDR in sales
development, normally, you're
Junior, right? You're young in
your career, that's the starting
point. Of course, there's
exceptions of where people are
just really all about sales
development. They don't want to
leave their own. Little bit
older in their career, but
largely when you start in their
role, you're relatively new to
the world of sales, like maybe a
couple of years in at most, when
I think of all the skills that
you need to have as a modern day
prospector right now, when I
started out, really, you had to
be good at cold calling and mail
merge. That was it. Now you've
got to be great at cold calling,
and that's about to get a lot
harder come September. You've
got to be great at emailing,
like, if your bounce rate is
more than sorry, if your sort of
response rate where people say
this is spam is like, more than
5% you get blacklisted. So
you've got to be great at cold
calling, great at emailing,
which is, you know, creative
writing. You've got to be great
at social selling, really,
that's what we're saying. Now
you've got to be great at video,
greater voicemail and voice
note. You've got to be a
creative thinker, you've got to
be a researcher. You've got to
be able to use, I think the
average rep has something like
21 things they've got to log
into. You've got to be able to
use all these different tech
stacks. And I think when you
think that, then that's, by the
way, the just skill set. You've
got to have the right mindset.
You're going to have cold
calling, anxiety and reluctance.
You're going to have imposter
syndrome. You're going to have
need for need for approval.
You're gonna have supportive buy
cycle. You're gonna need to be
able to negotiate objection,
handle you're gonna be there to
need to deal with rejection and
pick yourself up. And every
week, you start zero. Every
month, you start a zero. Every
day, you can still save your day
as an SDR by booking a meeting
at the very last minute. I know
I'm just skimming the surface.
By the way, of all the things
the modern day prospect has got
to be able to do. The thought of
having a marketing manager that
hasn't, and this is to keep it
that hasn't lived that role, to
me, is nuts. And actually, I
feel like it's unfair for
leadership to expect a marketing
manager who has, critically,
hasn't done that role to be able
to coach and develop an SDR
across all those things to the
right level, to keep them in a
job. Because let's be really
clear, if you're crap at sales
as an SDR, you're not supported.
You're sacked. So I feel like
you're letting them down by not
giving them a manager that is
great at these things, because
they've lived and done it to
coach and support them. I'm sat
here feeling like I've given you
a grenade there, and there's no
way you can come back from that,
but you're in support of it
Mark Walker: over to you, yeah,
no. So it's a very compelling
argument that you've you've
given, and a lot of it
resonates. But I think there's,
there is an alternative way. So
a lot of the skills that you've
just described right, the
ability to write creatively,
tell a good story, do research,
manage a bunch of tools at
scale. How do they all connect
together? Making sure that you
can social sell so many of the
tools and skill sets that you've
just described are core
marketing, almost everything,
bar cold calling and the ability
to face a human telling. You
know, every day is a little bit
more in the camp of my mind of
marketing, right? So a lot of
what you described is why I
think it's moving more into
marketing. So instead of having
20 SDRs whose sole role is to
just smash the phone every day.
You've now getting 234, SDRs who
are acting almost like demand
generation managers to figure
out what's the campaign angle,
what's the tooling we're going
to build? How do we resonate
with all of these prospects, and
how do we manage this suite of
tools to get the responses that
we need at scale? That skill set
tends to be lending itself a
little bit more to the
creativity and campaign driven
thinking of marketing, the
behavioural attribution piece
that you mentioned. I actually
do think we're we ultimately
land on the same page there,
right, which is you have to have
the right goals in place. So
again, marketing, managing,
SDRs, need to make sure that
those meetings booked ultimately
drive revenue. So it's about
quality, not just quantity. And
that's just how you set up good.
Good goal link, right? You
always try and have the counter
measures. You don't get too
extreme with one over the other.
Pure quality, you don't get
enough volume. Pure volume, you
don't get enough quality. So
that's easy to easy to overcome
with the right kind of goals and
metrics. And quite frankly, I've
seen SDR teams reporting to
sales that had entirely the
wrong metrics themselves, right?
It was just meetings books, and
they didn't convert. So yeah,
that that problem happens in
both cases. I think the point
around marketing not necessarily
having lived the roles, they
don't understand how to coach
reps, particularly with
rejection, right? That's really
hard, picking up the phone and
being told f off several times a
day, right? That that's not an
experience most marketers will
have, so that's really
difficult, but it doesn't
preclude you setting them up
with a coaching relationship,
with an AE or with someone in
sales leadership to upskill them
on that side of their role,
where they sit. Doesn't it
doesn't squarely mean they have
to sit in sales, and I do think.
70, 80% of that skill set is
more lending itself to
marketing. And then the 20, 25%
whatever it is that marketers
might not have, I think you can
cope. You can set them up with a
great coaching relationship.
Mark Ackers: Hey, sales leaders,
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description. Good job. Mark. I
mean that legitimately. So the
bit that I straight away, we go
back to the very first thing you
said, I'm in total agreement. I
just, I've just seen it play out
over the last couple of years.
SDR teams shrinking, that that
that is just happening, right?
And And technology is enabling
those to do more. So like
bloated SDR teams, I totally
accept are done. I really like
the phrase, it's gone from an
army to a SWAT team. I kind of
really buy into that. It's nice.
I feel like the bit that I sort
of emphasise twice that's
critical and I still sit with is
I think they need to have done
the role. And the reason I say
that, and this might just be a
me thing, but I'm keen to get
your take. I feel like I have to
believe my manager has done it
for me to do it. I almost like I
can't follow someone that's not
walked the path they're asking
me to walk. And that might just
be me. Obviously there's a pun
there with your last name, but
there we are. And the reason I
said that so just, just, uh, I
won't say who, but a month ago,
spoke to a sales leader, new to
new enrol. There was CRO and
they said one of the big
problems is their sales manager
has come over from a marketing
role. They're now the manager of
the sales team. They've been a
manager for the sales team for
three years, and they've never
sold a thing. And I sort of
called that. I was like, sorry,
I actually did this on purpose.
I said they've not sold anything
for three months, just because I
wanted them to say again, no,
three years. I wanted them to
say that out loud again. And I
was I didn't act surprised. I
was surprised, and I thought
there's no way I could work for
someone that's never sold. I
struggle with that, and I think
that's my point being in what is
a high pressured role, an ever
demanding role, a monotonous
role, to have a manager that
hasn't done it. Now I can
totally say you can be in sales
and move to marketing like you
can marketing to sales, but I
think you convinced me on the
skill set roles in into very
much a marketing role, demand
gen I totally buy into that. I
still think when the going gets
tough, I want to know my manager
has walked that path before and
really lived it. Because I think
the second you have a difficult
conversation with manager and
you're like, you don't get it,
you've not done it, I feel like
that becomes a really difficult
relationship. What do you think
Mark Walker: it's a really great
challenge? I've got mixed views
on it, right, which is, and
maybe this is, this is too much,
because I'm in a I'm in a seat
now as a founder and a CEO,
where I will absolutely be
managing functions that I've
never done before. I have never
led HR, I've never led finance,
but I'm still going to be
expected to manage them, and I
just need to learn and
understand the bits that I
haven't done right? And I so I
think as you, as you climb any
career ladder, and you become
more and more towards an
executive level, you will just
find yourself managing functions
that you haven't done
themselves, right? It you can't
have possibly done every role by
the time you hit some sort of
exec level, whether that's
marketing or or sales. You know,
if you when I've led marketing,
I've had to make decisions
around performance marketing
without ever actually having
done it before, right? So, and I
would like to think I've done a
pretty good job in these roles,
and because I'm deeply curious
and I learn, and I'm also quite
authentic, and I will tell
someone I haven't done this
before. My job as a leader isn't
always to have the exact answer
is to ask the right questions
and provide coaching and
guidance and so on, right so I
think with the right leader in
marketing, so long as they are
not trying to portray themselves
as, like, I know best, this is
how i i would do it, because you
can't, right? But if you can
say, Oh, interesting that you're
having this challenge, and what
have you tried to do to overcome
it? Have you spoken to so and so
in the sales team, like, I think
they had a similar challenge,
but you can, as a leader, manage
people in functions you haven't
led before. So my overall view,
and that is just true, right?
It's categorically true. It
happens all the time in lots of
businesses. I do take your
point, though, that there is a
certain mentality, particularly
in sales. If you haven't done
the job, you just don't get how
to face sometimes. So building
that rapport and credibility. So
in this specific scenario, can
be a little bit can be a little
bit tougher. So overarchingly, I
believe you can lead a function
that you haven't done itself, so
long as you are a good leader.
But I do take your point it's a
little bit more tricky in this
specific scenario. And again,
Mark Ackers: great counter
argument, right? These are
strong blows we're sending each
other and we're dealing with
what the reason I say that is, I
buy into that. You know, as the
co founder at my sales coach, I
wear hats that I've never worn
before. You know, like everyone
jokes I'm the HR manager. Like,
don't have any clue about HR,
right? But I think, I think
we're saying the same thing when
I say that. I picture bigger
companies, I think, in the
smaller startup life, yeah, you
have to wear different hats. And
actually, that is the blessing
and the curse of a startup is
you, you get to wear these
different hats. But God, those
hats can be heavy and
uncomfortable at times, but
talking of So, yeah, you're
founder led selling. Now, how
have you found being the seller
and the founder. How have you
found that? I love it
Mark Walker: ice. Most fun I've
had in in in quite a long time.
It's a different type of sale,
right? There is a, almost a
cheat code, right? Which is, if
you are the founder, you just,
you don't just get the sale,
right? I wish, but you do get a
certain level of credibility
built out that this product
you're about to show someone and
the conversation you're about to
have with them is built Yeah,
it's it's not a playbook handed
to you by someone else. It's
genuinely your vision, your
belief in how the world should
be, what the challenges are. And
I mean, again, even more so in
this scenario, I'm selling a
product that I wanted to have as
a chief revenue officer, right?
I've lived selling to CMOs and
CROs, having been a sales and
marketing leader. So there's a
huge amount of fun, right?
Because you're basically having
a peer to peer conversation with
people. So that is a little bit
of a cheat code. And what's the
challenges? Hang on, what's the
question again, just, how am I
finding it? How are you finding
found the lead selling, going
back to the point, an enormous
amount of fun, I think maybe one
of the challenges is making sure
you do not get carried away with
from missing things that you're
set your that your tech team
can't deliver, right? And I've
been, I'm not a developer, but
I've been on calls with other
founders where they've promised
something and then it just sends
the whole business up in arms
because it completely changes
the roadmap, or it's very, very
difficult to deliver. And you
know, you kind of have that
power, so it's about not
exercising it and being like
accepting the restraints, which
is actually quite difficult to
sometimes have that self
discipline and say, I'm selling
this product that I have today,
not this vision that will be
here two years from now, or even
six months from now. And
actually in the very early days
when the product was MVP and
very nascent, that was, I wasn't
great at that, right? Because
you kind of needed to sell a bit
more than you had there and
then. But as the products
evolved, and it's now a genuine,
fully fledged product. It's much
easier to sell what is in front
of me today than try and sell
what's coming six months from
now. And it's also the other
thing is, we are BEC backed. So
when you're fundraising, that's,
that is a sales process, but
it's a very different sales
process, and when you're trying
to fundraise sell and product
sell, it's really important you
don't let those two things
converge, because, again, you're
going to be selling a massive
vision to someone that wants
functionality when they buy it.
Equally, you don't want to sell
a VC on the functionality you
have today, because they're
they're not invest in. So
Mark Ackers: there's a lot there
that I can relate to. I think
just taking it back to the
start, founder and selling is a
lot of fun, but it's hard as
well. Yeah, cheat code is
definitely an interesting
phrase, because I get exactly
what you mean. There are deals
that I know I can do that it
wouldn't be fair to expect
anyone in my team to be able to
do and that purely comes down to
the title that you have. In my
case, co founder and head of
sales. And there'll be deals
that you can do that you won't
be able to replicate with other
people that come into the team.
And again, it wouldn't be fair
for you to expect them to do
that. But I think that's the
chasm that is so difficult to
cross when you break from
founder led selling and having
sales people in place. And then
the bit you talk about that,
really, I call that staying in
your swim lane. You know? I
remember the early days of
refract. I remember the early
days of my sales coach. You've
got your swim lane, but you've
got someone saying, Oh, if it
could just do that, we can make
it do that. No problem. But then
when we were. Guilty this at
refract would build features for
one person, and that would
really shift your roadmap, push
back the feature didn't quite
work, or they didn't really use
it, and then no one else really
adopted it, and you'd constantly
move out your swim lane. I mean,
it sounds like that, something
you're very conscious of, revved
up is maybe in the early days it
was harder, but you're really
focused on your swim lane. So I
can, I can totally relate to
that. But founder led selling is
just difficult, isn't it like,
in the sense of, whilst a lot of
fun, to not break out of your
swim lane and and to say no to
people, particularly when you're
VC backed. But then here's the
other thing that that is true.
If you sign up a crappy
customer, in the sense of poor
fit, and you've tried to fit
square peg in a round hole,
you're the one that tells the
board they've signed up. You're
the one that tells them they've
churned and it's on you. And I
suppose there is that that hat
and that responsibility that you
have to wear. And it's a real
it's a real tightrope, isn't
Mark Walker: it? It definitely
is, yeah. And the other inherent
challenge with founder led sales
is, you're a small business,
right? So you don't have all of
the brand and tailwinds that
come from being a large
organisation. At that point. You
don't have a huge marketing
budget. You know, the brand
often is you right, going out on
to LinkedIn and so on. So
there's, there's plenty of
challenges, but yeah, to your
point, if you, if you fudge
things a little bit and you try
and sell to someone that you
know isn't quite a good fit, but
you want the win for the
quarter, you you know you're on
the hook for that the following
quarter. If they churn going
back to the very first point, I
would never knowingly sell to
someone that I didn't think
could get value from the
product, because there is just
no point, right? You are just
going to invite churn, but in
the really early days, you are
finding product market fit, and
you don't know whether it is
going to work or not. And those,
those have been a couple of
painful experiences, right,
where we've had clients that
it's just for whatever reason,
it's just not quite worked, but
that's just the process of
learning and growing, and you
get better and you refine every
quarter, and churn starts to get
lower, and your revenue gets
higher. And that's how you're
building a business.
Mark Ackers: And part of that is
your responsibility as the
founder, to take risks, to try
new things, right? Like I
remember in the first year at my
sales coach, we said we should
be experimenting every week
experiment, try new things and
and that's almost like your duty
to try and build the best
version of the business. And you
know, you would have sat there
like I did with a whiteboard,
thinking, Okay, this is what the
business is going to be. This
how we're going to do it. And
then you get out there and
you're like, Okay, we need to
make some changes, and we need
to make them quickly. And then,
I don't know about you, we've
we've made a change. Oh no,
let's go back. Oh no, let's make
this change. Let's go back. And
I'm sure that's the journey
you're going on. Let's hear
about revved up, because I'm
conscious of time, so revved up
is a business I'm somewhat
familiar with, but I don't want
to make any assumptions. Let's
go back to how you described me
when I first sold to you. Let's
not make those assumptions. Why
don't you, first of all tell me
who's the ideal person that, if
you could get an inbound demo
request from someone, what's
their perfect job title and
company?
Mark Walker: Yeah, for sure. So
if I take the medic framework to
an extent I'd have to right, and
the economic buyer would be
either the CMO or a CRO who
actually looks after marketing,
right? But it's fundamentally
the most senior marketer in the
business. Would we would want to
be sponsoring the product, and
then, in an ideal scenario, we
would have at least two
champions. One of them, our
primary champion, would be head
of demand, Gen smaller business,
maybe head of marketing, but
they're effectively on the hook
for delivering qualified
pipeline to the sales team. And
then, crucially, we would
ideally have a second champion
who runs sales, right because
the product that we are selling
is Account Based Marketing, and
ABM, while he's got marketing.
The title is inherently a team
sport, and if you do not have
sales bought into it, the whole
thing will fall flat. So it
comes back to this sales,
marketing alignment
conversation.
Mark Ackers: So let's start
there in your own words. I know
maybe for many listeners, an
obvious question, but I want, I
want your words. What is Account
Based Marketing? There
Mark Walker: probably is a
dictionary definition of it. I'm
going to give you two two
answers so that this simple
theoretical answer to what is
ABM is it is marketing that
targets a specific set of
accounts that are predefined,
and you customise all of your
content and all of your
campaigns to resonate
specifically with each one of
those accounts and the key
stakeholders within those
accounts. So that's like the as
close to my textbook destination
as you can get. And then the
question is, well, what does
that mean? Right? What's the
kind of workflow around a good
you. Good ABM like a good ABM
motion would be good account
selection, and we can double
click into anything that you
want, but let me give you the
high level. But you firstly,
you've got to select the right
accounts. Then you need to do
deep research and understanding
into those accounts. What's
their context? What are their
drivers? What are their goals,
what are their challenges, and
who is the most likely buying
committee and influences within
the account? What are their
motivations? What are their
drivers, and so on. Then you
need to have a great angle
that's built off of the
research, like, how are we going
to attack this account? Like,
what's uniquely valuable about
our business to them to their
business. And then you need to
customise all of your content to
that account. So you've got to
really show you've done the work
to understand their context and
how that connects back to your
value proposition. And then you
need to execute the campaign,
and that's usually across
multiple channels. You've got to
show up where the stakeholders
are and where that account is
multiple times, and often that
does start from brand building,
because if you if the account
doesn't know you, sometimes you
just have to build that
familiarity and awareness with
your business before you can
actually start to break into the
account and have conversations.
Which is why ABM tends to be a
longer cycle to actually start
to see results, and that's why
you reserve it for these larger
organisations who are going to
be very meaningful to your
revenue line.
Mark Ackers: And how imperative
would you say great Account
Based Marketing is in today's
sales landscape.
Mark Walker: I mean, I'm
building a whole business around
it. So you would imagine my
answer is, it is very
imperative, like bland marketing
and bland campaigns that don't
directly speak to specific
accounts and the individuals
within them are just noise.
They're just noise. And it's so
easy to scale noisy campaigns
through automation and AI, it's
still much more difficult to
actually get to the level of
depth that's required for ABM.
That that's what helps cut
through. Now there's also
typically motions or campaign
touch points within ABM that
cannot be scaled through AI or
digital. For example, I would
almost always have some kind of
breakfast or dinner or in
person. Touch point for an ABM
campaign, right? Because you are
saying I am willing to invest
the time and money to get you in
a room with peers, and I'm going
to spend the time and expense of
calibrating this event just for
you, right? It's on a topic that
we know is going to resonate
with you and your business, and
you're going to meet your peers.
That type of cut through is very
different than, yeah, Can I
record you a 32nd loom video?
Right? So it's just a different
level of weight that goes along
with these ABM campaigns, and
if, but if you don't have them,
it's, it's very difficult to cut
through to these accounts. And
would you say again, you know,
you're building a business in
this you live in this world.
When you speak to organisations,
what kind of percent do you
think can really get an Account
Based Marketing? Right? Very
few. Right now. Where's the
quick fixes, the fixes with
organisations that are not doing
ABM correctly right? What are
the what are the quick fixes
here again, they might have not
been identifying the right
accounts to go after in the
first place, so having better
intelligence, better decision
making frameworks around who are
the right accounts to go after
is potentially a really quick
fix to the level and depth of
research that you need on that
account can be really time
consuming and take whole teams.
If businesses aren't leveraging
AI and available tools, then
they're probably really missing
something, and therefore they're
making their ABM campaigns far
more expensive than they need to
be. And the third one, and maybe
I should have started with this,
because really, this is where I
I see most of them derail. Is
the sales and marketing
alignment, right? ABM is a
marketing driven initiative.
They want it to drive leads, or
MQLs and the sales team are not
bought in, and it's not all
coordinated together, or they
are broadly aligned, but it's a
fight over who's going to claim
the attribution for the success
of the campaign. Sales is trying
to call up the accounts outside
of the agreed cycle, because
they want to be able to claim
that they got got it over of the
line, right? Or marketing is
deliberately, yeah, trying to
consume sales with a particular
activity and claim the credit,
right? So honestly, the
organisations that I'm speaking
to or working with, where the
quickest fix would be, it's
around getting those teams
aligned,
Mark Ackers: and this sets us up
nicely. I'd love for you to now
just share with us how does
revved up? Help with all of
this. If I'm sales leader, CRO,
responsible for marketing
demand, Gen, and I'm buying into
what you're saying. Wanna hear
more about revved
Mark Walker: up? So revved up
helps with three of the core
components that I've just spoken
about. So revved up will do
unbelievable amounts of research
on the account and the
stakeholders within the account.
So you end up with this
incredible dossier of
information and insight into the
account and the stakeholders,
the likes that it would have
taken multiple people many, many
days and man hours to pull
together. So that gives you the
base of a really strong ABM
campaign. Now, the second thing
that revved up does is it takes
that content and that research,
it matches it to your unique
value proposition, and then it
pulls together really compelling
content that will allow you to
cut through to this account with
a unique point of view and a
unique value proposition
tailored to the needs of the
account, right? So again, often,
many days can be spent in
workshops trying to figure out,
how do we translate this
research into content revved up?
Does that? Does that for you,
out the box? And then the third
piece is, we make it really easy
to connect all that content to
all different channels, so you
can run that multi, multi touch
campaign, not just email, not
just LinkedIn, but actually
helping you create thought
leadership that can go out to
your sales team so they feel a
part of it. They're they're
empowered and enabled to drive
the ABM campaign and build their
brand, PPC, bespoke landing
pages, right? The whole shebang
is, managed out of revved up. So
you really get this kind of out
of the box ABM pod with the
platform,
Mark Ackers: amazing. Thanks. So
thanks for bringing that to
life. I'd love to send people
your way. Obviously, it sounds
like every week you're at an
event, they'll probably see you,
social butterfly that you are.
Obviously, I'm guessing LinkedIn
is the most obvious place to
find you, right? So, Mark Walker
on LinkedIn, revved up. For
those not watching, listening,
how do we spell revved up?
Where's the website? How do we
find you?
Mark Walker: Yeah, for sure. So
revved up is R, E, double, V, E,
D, u, p, revved up all one
word.ai, revved up.ai. Is the
website and then, yeah,
LinkedIn, for sure, my LinkedIn
handle is pretty easy. It's J,
F, D, I, Mark, just fucking do
it. Mark, it's been, been a
mantra of mine for many, many
years. So easy to find me, or,
yeah, just search Mark Walker at
revved up. Well,
Mark Ackers: that's that's a
great LinkedIn handle, and that
brings us to the end of the
podcast. We just fucking did it
to take up your your mantra. And
loved having you on Mark. I knew
this would be a great episode.
As I say, we've not really
explored that sales and
marketing side before, and as a
ex marketer myself, I was really
keen to have that conversation
with you. I think there's some
great debates, you know, a few
things where you definitely
challenge my thoughts. Hopefully
I've done that with you as well,
but hopefully, and I trust the
listeners, got a load out of
this episode as well. So thanks
for coming on. Thanks for
sharing your story, and best of
luck. We've revved up, and I'm
sure I'll see an event at some
point in the future. Thanks
Mark Walker: so much, Mark. It's
been a lot of fun. Appreciate
having me you.