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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;18;25
Aaron
So is it all over? Is that. Is that the word on the street?
00;00;19;02 - 00;00;22;05
Pri
It's over. Let's pack it up. We're cooked.
00;00;22;08 - 00;00;35;13
Chris
One of the nice things about getting ahead of these trends is I can. I'm listening to Elliott Smith this morning. I can just enjoy the beauty of the songs. And I'm not listening to it as a coping mechanism.
00;00;35;15 - 00;00;57;04
Aaron
I don't think that you're going to need to cope, Chris. I think, you know, I think that we're just seeing kind of this Dixon Ian theme for the economy, which is just a tale of two cities. Like, you know, you saw Nvidia blow past earnings and then there's some concern that's building. You know, those kind of reminds me of like during the last administration when they were talking about like the vibe session.
00;00;57;07 - 00;01;13;14
Aaron
But I think that's really when this separation just kind of started. I just think you're going to see companies like and whatever traditional metrics they tend to be, you know, measured by just continue to blow past them. And it's just not going to trickle down to everyday folks.
00;01;13;16 - 00;01;24;16
Chris
Yeah. Why are you bullish on XO capitalism? Because I'm I'm very firmly in the you cannot separate these two things. And even if you could it's a bad idea.
00;01;24;19 - 00;01;27;26
Pri
Should we tell you about XO capitalism first?
00;01;28;03 - 00;01;48;14
Aaron
Yeah. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago in the pod. It's a new book. I think it's a concept that that's been floating around, but the basic idea is that the economy is kind of on its own trajectory, and it's untethered from, you know, from labor, in many ways. And I think, you know, I'm not an advocate for that.
00;01;48;16 - 00;02;15;01
Aaron
Chris, I'm just saying, I think I'm just trying to call balls and strikes here, and I just think that that's what's happening. And it's probably just going to continue to happen, right? Like we're getting inning one of automation through AI. And I think any, you know, two, three, 4 or 5 6789 is coming. With robotics, with multimodal models, with, you know, even, you know, even some of the crypto stuff, to be honest.
00;02;15;03 - 00;02;32;08
Aaron
You know, you see these, you know, digital asset companies that are super lean, that are able to kind of operate that, with metrics that are, you know, eye watering, to your traditional investor. I just don't think it's flowing back down to, you know, the, the everyday man on the street or man person on the street.
00;02;32;10 - 00;02;55;14
Pri
Well, it's like I'm just talking about this with Matt, too, but, it's like 50%, or. No, I think a top 10% makes up for what, 50 or 60% of all spending. So that top 10% continues to get more capital, continues to spend more. You probably won't feel that weakness in the economy. So like in a way, doesn't that kind of support.
00;02;55;17 - 00;02;57;23
Aaron
Yeah, I think that that's like some evidence of that.
00;02;57;25 - 00;02;58;19
Pri
Yeah. Yeah.
00;02;58;21 - 00;03;15;15
Aaron
And it just becomes a tale of two cities, right? I think there's been periods of time where we had that that was called serfdom. You know, like that the landowners were rolling in it. The serfs were not. So, I just think it's kind of the endpoint of, of, like, web2 tech.
00;03;15;18 - 00;03;22;04
Pri
The boogeyman of that is definitely going to be AI, by the way of like the outcome of The Tale of Two Cities.
00;03;22;06 - 00;03;34;02
Aaron
Well, then I think that's why you see some tech folks exploring new cities, right? Because I think that they know that that's the outcome or they intuit it. So they're going to find new cities.
00;03;34;04 - 00;03;37;16
Chris
And this is so this is.
00;03;37;16 - 00;03;38;03
Pri
So.
00;03;38;03 - 00;03;45;01
Chris
Bleak, man. Now that I found out I live in the communist corridor of New York City. I guess I lived in the comedy corridor.
00;03;45;07 - 00;03;46;01
Aaron
Yeah.
00;03;46;04 - 00;04;10;19
Chris
It's like news to me, but. Okay. I don't know, dude. Like, you're basically saying, like, trickle down economics is back and it will win. And or, like, I just can't get the past the idea that like a you cannot untie these two things. It's just a really complex system and you need all aspects of it to be healthy.
00;04;10;19 - 00;04;34;09
Chris
Like you cannot outrun consumer spending, you cannot outrun wage growth. Like I just I refuse to believe it. And then even if you can, I don't want to because to be honest, like the market is the last ordering of like relations solidarity and mutual obligation. Right? Like.
00;04;34;12 - 00;04;46;05
Aaron
Oh, I'm with you, Chris. Like, I want the same thing. Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for it. I'm not. I don't think it's trickle down economics because nothing's trickling down. That's my point. It's like the, like, trickle down economics.
00;04;46;08 - 00;04;47;15
Pri
It's a puddle.
00;04;47;17 - 00;04;50;11
Aaron
It's not a puddle. There's like the spigots. Not even on pre.
00;04;50;18 - 00;04;55;12
Pri
Yeah. Nothing's like have a puddle at the top, not even trickling down.
00;04;55;15 - 00;05;13;01
Aaron
Yeah. It's just like hoarding of of capital because it's the most important piece. Right. And it just going, you know, to, organizations, you know, projects, assets that are able to generate a return on that capital. So it's just like a big vacuum sucking it all.
00;05;13;03 - 00;05;13;26
Pri
Yeah.
00;05;13;29 - 00;05;38;12
Chris
I mean, I mentioned this in our chat earlier in the week, but like, I did my like periodic spend time with the ultra rich last week and someone in my life was having a big birthday and pulled out all the stops. And I could not believe, like the scaling of the catering to the ultra rich, since like the last time I was in that end of the pool, like it has grown exponentially and dramatically.
00;05;38;12 - 00;06;09;16
Chris
And it's it's no longer like the sort of, oh, we're going to get a private table or we're going to get the chef's room at this restaurant. It's this luxury hotel has a a bar in it, and the bar is actually an entire floor of private bars. And I was just like, Holy shit. Like, I don't know, you know, like, every once in a while, like, you, you come back to a world that you know you're not very close to and you're just a little blown away by like how quickly it has changed.
00;06;09;16 - 00;06;13;25
Chris
Like, I really had that experience last week and I was a bit of a mind fuck yeah.
00;06;13;25 - 00;06;27;12
Aaron
And there's like, you know, private clubs popping up, record breaking sales of high end artwork. Right? It's just everywhere. It's just a tale of two cities, but it's not just going to be a private club, Chris. It's going to be like, hey, how about this whole city? It's catered to you.
00;06;27;14 - 00;06;31;08
Pri
Yeah, that's being protected by some robot army problem.
00;06;31;10 - 00;06;54;09
Chris
Exactly. Look, I'm going to stay where I'm at and cleaned. I'm going to stay in a, well, mixed society, apparently, like the the normal neighborhood and communist card or, like, it works for me. Like my goal, I like I, I was saying this to someone like, you know, like my my goals in life. Like I just want to be like, live at the same standards as, like an upper middle class person.
00;06;54;09 - 00;07;05;02
Chris
The 90s, did, you know, like and it's just sad that that's become like, I don't know, aspirational. It'd be so out of reach and like, we're just living in all these pressures.
00;07;05;02 - 00;07;12;08
Aaron
But yeah, well, what you're saying is like the American dream, right? You want to live within that construct of the American dream.
00;07;12;10 - 00;07;43;21
Derek
Like, it's a weird time, guys. And the 90s comment with that, Chris. Meg really struck a chord. I was reading somewhere that like the the, the 90s being kind of like peak at the peak, everything like peak finance, peak entertainment and peak, social sentiment, peak, you know, harmonization across kind of like all, disparate classes. And there is something about, yeah, growing up in that time period and, and reflecting on kind of what the world looks like now that it feels like that very stark contrast.
00;07;43;24 - 00;07;46;24
Derek
So, yeah, that that comment, that comment hits for makers.
00;07;47;00 - 00;08;21;01
Chris
It's funny because like, I'm I'm spending a lot of time in the 2000 in my head right now. And I think some of that is just trying to pattern match, like the economic conditions we're seeing right now because like there's dot com boom element, there's just there's GFC elements. And then I think some of that is just like my own personal situation where, you know, like I'm in a very early building stage again and, and like, you know, through the 20 tens, I was like working off of other platforms, you know, like we established ourselves.
00;08;21;01 - 00;08;41;12
Chris
And so, like, it was, it was less like nascent. But then there's also like these cultural signals that are coming back, like the whole indie sleaze thing, like keeps kind of spreading out where like electro clash as a movement is come back like shoegaze is kind of floating around like it's weird how I think, I don't know, temporarily.
00;08;41;12 - 00;08;47;04
Chris
Like we can all find ourselves in different spaces or like, call it, you know, like returning to to different paths.
00;08;47;06 - 00;09;19;24
Derek
There's also something kind of interesting about just like where we found ourselves in the 90s, like there was all this optimism around. I mean, we were obviously like we were between wars, like, I think social sentiment was high. It was a very economically successful decade for the US. But but, but also it was like we were in the earliest stages of, like, tinkering on the internet, but we weren't full on slaves to these devices like we were building GeoCities websites and like, you know, pirating songs and, you know, talking on AOL Instant Messenger or MSN messenger.
00;09;19;24 - 00;09;42;11
Derek
And like, we had like the the cool, interesting 0 to 1 novel touch points of what it meant to be connected to everyone without kind of like the slavery of, of these things that that now exist 30 years later. And, you know, this is a technology show. So it's like kind of, ironic to be, you know, pining for for that a bit.
00;09;42;11 - 00;10;05;08
Derek
But but there was something about that in-between decade that bred like, really great music and entertainment and, you know, I don't know, just like a high and positive emotional state that I think is, yeah, I think could be related to, to some of the technology shifts that were happening around that time. But weren't fully penetrated yet.
00;10;05;09 - 00;10;08;03
Derek
But yeah. Curious to hear what you guys think of that.
00;10;08;05 - 00;10;29;14
Chris
Yeah, I, I mean, there was another period in time like the 80s under Thatcher where like the UK produced just this absolute explosion of like, culture and music and really outlined itself. And so I think your point about like there being moments in time where like it breeds that stuff, like maybe we're entering, it'd be nice if we're about to get that, wasn't it.
00;10;29;16 - 00;10;31;17
Chris
Looking for the silver lining here.
00;10;31;19 - 00;10;32;00
Derek
That would be.
00;10;32;00 - 00;10;40;23
Aaron
Cool. You know where my head is, Chris? It's not in the 1990s. It's in the 1830s. Like, I think we're just getting a redux of that.
00;10;40;26 - 00;10;46;20
Chris
Time that I don't remember my 1830s well, because it was I think it is under 50 years old.
00;10;46;20 - 00;10;49;11
Aaron
It is Jackson. All right. I'm going to run through just quickly, like, oh.
00;10;49;11 - 00;10;54;11
Chris
You love your you like love the call like Andrew Jackson out 17.
00;10;54;13 - 00;10;56;27
Pri
Dude, you're not like a paper in college about it.
00;10;57;02 - 00;11;21;09
Aaron
Yeah I've been studying this for a long time. All right. So he was a populist president, right? They expanded like voting rights by eliminating property requirements. And so that was like huge as original populist. You know, he had some gnarly things, right? Like the Indian Removal Act kind of feels a little similar to what's happening with, with folks that are, immigrants here.
00;11;21;09 - 00;11;40;28
Aaron
Right? Like we're it was very aggressive. Famously, the Trail of Tears, which is a dark moment in U.S. history. There was a whole effort, to nullify federal tariffs, which, you know, we're fighting over tires again. There was a bancor, right? Like we basically burned down the U.S central bank. Then you could argue that crypto has like elements of that.
00;11;41;01 - 00;12;01;29
Aaron
There was the rise of the spoils system. So that's what Jackson brought in. Just like grift. So we have a lot of grift. And then we had the petticoat affair, which was a social, scandal involving the wives of cabinet members, which you can roughly analogize to, you know, what we're seeing around Epstein. So I think I think you got to roll back the clock a little bit here.
00;12;02;01 - 00;12;03;22
Aaron
I think we're just going through that again.
00;12;03;28 - 00;12;08;23
Pri
So what happened after Jackson? Now? I'm looking at the Civil War. Oh, okay. Great.
00;12;08;23 - 00;12;11;02
Aaron
What happened.
00;12;11;04 - 00;12;12;10
Pri
Right?
00;12;12;12 - 00;12;20;29
Aaron
Yeah. Like, it kind of like led, led to, like, a continuing fracturing and then, you know, like a civil war. So buckle up, guys.
00;12;21;06 - 00;12;22;27
Pri
Oh. That's great.
00;12;23;00 - 00;12;26;14
Aaron
I'm not being positive. I'm sorry.
00;12;26;17 - 00;12;38;26
Chris
Is it so are you saying, like, I need to, like, start becoming a partizan? I need to build solidarity with my my neighbors in Ridgewood, like Quincy, or are you doing here? Dude, I just want to, like, hunker down and be me.
00;12;38;29 - 00;12;58;21
Aaron
Now, I just I think that, you know, I think, you know, the US, it's just been. It's an insane place, right? Like, it's like an open source technology. It's messy, it's nasty. It's sometimes violent. It's, you know, it goes through these periods. But I think that this is how, like the next, you know, kind of perspective gets generated.
00;12;58;21 - 00;13;24;02
Aaron
And, and I just think that there is like a cadence to that. And we're just in one of those time periods. And so I do think what's happening is like you're, you're seeing like, you know, roughly similar stuff kind of emerging, you know, and, and, you know, following those decades, there was like railroad tycoons and like concerns about income inequality, like there's similar stories that I think just kind of read through the way this country has developed and will probably continue to, to develop.
00;13;24;02 - 00;13;46;00
Aaron
But just they all have like, different flavors to them, even even though that sounds pretty negative and I don't I think we'll try and avoid any, anything like a civil war. I just feel like it's like an echo of that and probably like a less extreme version of what we want. You know, some of our, earlier American citizens had a, kind of deal with.
00;13;46;02 - 00;13;51;19
Aaron
Could you imagine living through that, though? I mean, it must been wild. I mean, and then people were settling the West like it was the crazy time.
00;13;51;21 - 00;14;10;23
Pri
Yeah. That's all you always think about. It's like, I think, you know, sometimes, like, with your, you know, having dinner with friends. Like, where has there been a crazier time than us politics or global politics? And you're like, you like obviously like, yes, compared to maybe two decades ago. But you look back in the larger history of the US like, it's not fairly tame.
00;14;10;23 - 00;14;15;01
Pri
I mean, we're not burning down the fed, so not quite, quite as yet.
00;14;15;03 - 00;14;15;22
Aaron
Yet.
00;14;15;25 - 00;14;36;16
Pri
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, one thing I was thinking about in the 90s, too was like just like the, you know, uni polarity of the United States too, like there wasn't China's rise really was just they started opening their economy, I believe, like early 90s, like it took a little time to see the fruits of that. And it was like post-Cold War.
00;14;36;18 - 00;15;09;14
Pri
So you really had this like in the 80s and 90s, particularly like global U.S dominance. And then obviously with television and other technology, US pop culture really started permeating globally. I mean, I was it was before that, but it felt like even more just after. And I wonder if that had something to do with it. Like the internet has made things a little bit easier for other cultures and other countries to permeate not only like their culture, but their ideology and everything else now and and then, you know, they become more economically open.
00;15;09;14 - 00;15;17;19
Pri
So that's created a little bit of that multi polarity has like created a little bit of a tension in the US.
00;15;17;21 - 00;15;19;14
Aaron
And you know, we're not used to it.
00;15;19;17 - 00;15;20;07
Pri
Yeah.
00;15;20;09 - 00;15;21;11
Aaron
That's a good point.
00;15;21;13 - 00;15;33;13
Pri
If that's like created a little bit it's just not it hasn't created like this like open free ability to like create music or or whatnot. Maybe this is a little bit of a stretch though, but just something that came to mind.
00;15;33;16 - 00;16;01;11
Chris
I've got a a bridge for free or a call back here. I just, asked our buddy Claude in Fourth Turning. Where are we during the, Andrew Jackson administration? And, it's the second turning. It's an awakening. And so we have a lot of religious revivalism. We had the rise of transcendentalism, reform movements, increasing sectional tensions and questioning of established institutions.
00;16;01;13 - 00;16;15;23
Chris
I, I feel like we're supposed to be on the cusp of the fourth turning right now and turning theory. But, I just wanted to give you some, Strauss the. And how. Yeah. Horoscopes there.
00;16;16;18 - 00;16;35;03
Aaron
I think The Tale of Two Cities is driving into crypto, too, right? Like you're seeing kind of like the retail, like the more, populous ecosystem really resetting. And then, you know, the, the pieces that are serving kind of like the global capital leads, they're continuing to grow. So it's kind of threading everywhere.
00;16;35;05 - 00;16;53;11
Chris
I, I mean, crypto seems to be just in for a macro open at the moment. Maybe this is just a reset before liquidity floodgates opened and we do a blow off and then it's all said and done. Or maybe you know, the dash for the high. You got me. I,
00;16;53;13 - 00;17;12;19
Aaron
I think it's the former, you know, you know, I, I think there's been some worry that there was like, like a market makers and large traders that kind of got blown up by the activity about a month or so ago, I think. Tom Lee yesterday, one of the major news channels kind of confirmed that. That's his understanding, too.
00;17;12;21 - 00;17;28;29
Aaron
So I think, I think that's kind of percolating in the background, he noted, which I thought was interesting, that usually it takes like eight weeks to kind of work through that. It's more like a week, six of it. And so we'll see if he's right or not. But I'm sure kind of feels that way because you're, you know, you're seeing the stock market, you know, it's bouncing around.
00;17;28;29 - 00;17;37;13
Aaron
But the crypto markets tend to kind of like roughly follow that. They don't seem to be this time around. What do you think Derek.
00;17;37;16 - 00;17;58;03
Derek
Man it's it's been a brutal it's been a brutal two weeks for for for sure. It's been relentless really. I've seen all the theories. I've seen the theories that like someone's been carted out. I think, you know, the I rarely is it just like one thing, you know, we were obviously having some, like, very, very, macro softness.
00;17;58;03 - 00;18;34;02
Derek
Just broadly I think up until today, you know, cuts for December were basically being priced as if they weren't happening. The, you know, I think Nvidia beat but quickly reversed the next day. I think people are, you know, skeptical in terms of some of the, I think the, the word on the street is like there's some accounting kind of jujitsu that's happening around some of the labs and, that's, you know, that maybe risks some of how these things are being valued or projected out over that, over the coming kind of over the coming quarters.
00;18;34;08 - 00;18;55;05
Derek
And, yeah, I mean, like the, the rest of the, the rest of the S&P outside of the, you know, the max oven has been suffering and, and all of that stuff effects like crypto like is usually the first to be priced. Just given that it, it trades 24 seven and it it's kind of like the bellwether risk on asset right now.
00;18;55;10 - 00;19;20;02
Derek
And with its institutionalization over the last couple of years, these things are very kind of intertwined. Yeah. I mean, we're we're in a the reality is, is like, we're kind of in a tricky place like that, you know, they're they're the thing I like to look for is like, what are the what are the the stories that like, people can underwrite, right now and there's so many stories that I'm really excited about.
00;19;20;02 - 00;19;46;05
Derek
There's, you know, stablecoin adoption and, and payment innovation. There's the story around kind of the, the things we've talked about here with the SEC and the CFTC harmonization around a safe harbor for for new protocols to launch tokens and have those things kind of like, operate outside our securities paradigm for a certain amount of time and, to centralize and, and then be tradable as commodities.
00;19;46;05 - 00;20;16;28
Derek
There's a whole, a whole blossoming kind of like, you know, line of effort there that I'm really excited about. But, still a little bit of ways out. There's, you know, the kind of the fed moving from a tightening environment to an easing environment, which seems to be picking up steam now, given kind of like the last couple of weeks, I think saying some stuff there and but but the but the reality is is like it's gets hard it's hard to it's kind of like, you know, we're kind of in a maze right now.
00;20;16;28 - 00;20;37;04
Derek
We're all running around. We're all trying to figure it out. I, you know, I think there's definitely something going on with the order books, like it's there's some, you know, in particular, very large seller who is hitting the same hours every day for, you know, repeated days in a row that, that that looks a little funky.
00;20;37;11 - 00;20;57;10
Derek
That's also kind of, adding to kind of the, the ingredient mixture here. But yeah, it's it's I think my advice is generally just like there's real merit here. There's real stuff getting built. There are these periods of pain that happen. And it doesn't mean it's sometimes it takes a little while for us to figure it out.
00;20;57;10 - 00;21;17;05
Derek
It could take months. It could take weeks. It could take, you know, a little bit longer, a little bit shorter. But, I mean, we could reverse some, you know, stimulus and, tariff news and rate cuts all kind of combining. And all of a sudden we've got AI productivity back in the limelight. Like, these stories can change quickly.
00;21;17;08 - 00;21;27;05
Derek
But yeah, my my only advice for folks is just like, try and figure out a way to survive and stay afloat and don't use leverage. Don't touch it. And just, just be patient.
00;21;27;07 - 00;21;46;25
Aaron
Yeah. I think, you know, it's funny. I, I tend to listen to some of the stuff that comes out of Goldman. I just think, not surprisingly, they have a pretty good pulse on things, and they seemed pretty optimistic for the reasons you mentioned. Eric. Like, you know, in a weird way, stimulus coming in 2026 because there's brakes on, tax on tips and all these other bits.
00;21;46;28 - 00;22;06;19
Aaron
They noted that, you know, just the government shutdown because it's such a big part of the US economy. Right. You know, it took a took a while for the markets to digest that, probably also led to some of this negative sentiment. You know, we kind of like get the exhaust or halo effect of that. So I don't know, I, I wouldn't be surprised if it reverses pretty quickly.
00;22;06;20 - 00;22;11;04
Aaron
But that's what makes this fun. We never know what's going to happen next.
00;22;11;06 - 00;22;15;22
Chris
You can always get out of bed with, a sense of hope and a smile on your face. Aaron I.
00;22;15;22 - 00;22;18;08
Aaron
Do, but as I do. Chris.
00;22;18;10 - 00;22;21;19
Chris
Good. I'm glad that's. It's a nice way to approach the world.
00;22;21;22 - 00;22;27;18
Aaron
What do we think about these record breaking art sales, though? I thought that was kind of unexpected. What do you think about that?
00;22;27;21 - 00;22;56;29
Pri
Yeah, that that was interesting. I will say, though, just on the economy point, I very I mean, outside of Aaron and maybe 1 or 2 people, I have not heard of anyone that feels particularly optimistic right now, which makes me want to take like the counter view, but it's also a little worrying to hear. I think almost everyone I've talked to not feeling optimistic on the next like quarter to of the economy, like recession indicators for sure on the sale though, I mean, I'm sure you guys caught this.
00;22;57;00 - 00;23;23;05
Pri
It was like the Gustav Klimt beautiful painting, record breaking sale. I think it was the second most expensive painting ever sold after that. DaVinci, seller Monday. Yeah. Silver. Monday. That was, I think 550 million after hammer or something like that. This one was like 236. But I think it's the most, valuable modern art piece because obviously the work was a lot older.
00;23;23;07 - 00;23;43;16
Pri
Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting. I'm curious who bought it, actually, but people I have friends in the art world that, like, feel like this could be a huge tailwind on, like, the art market in general. I mean, that feels a little dramatic to me, but I think the art market has been so soft that people saw this as like a nice, I don't know, like bellwether to be like, okay.
00;23;43;16 - 00;23;45;29
Pri
Yeah. Like the art market's back.
00;23;46;01 - 00;24;11;19
Derek
Yeah. I'll say one thing on those prints, the, the, the, the contemporary art market, the fine art market, I think over the last ten, 15 years has been kind of like on a rip roaring run there. And the question that I've always had looking at these prints is just like, well, who's the marginal buyer from here? It's like these, you know, pieces were going for 50, 75, $100 million.
00;24;11;24 - 00;24;38;13
Derek
Obviously the money was just like, you know, off the charts type of sale. And, you know, it was interesting just because, like, at some point you're entering kind of like very rare error, right? Like you need to see participation at the margins from like a new class of buyer for this to persist. I think what's interesting is like, I think that new type of buyers is, is possibly here and there.
00;24;38;19 - 00;25;22;02
Derek
They're willing to, to dip in and, you know, periods of where they feel like there's, you know, value. And it probably looks like, you know, sovereign nations and it looks like, you know, multimillionaires and, them availing themselves to kind of the store value properties of, of, of, of art and of certain artists. And, and I think, yeah, as long I think that's probably the maybe the takeaway for me here is like, if there are real people at the margins that are willing to step in that are different than like the the previous class, and they can come in with size and they can dedicate, you know, a certain percentage of their portfolio to,
00;25;22;02 - 00;25;42;12
Derek
to wealth preservation in these objects. And they're willing to kind of diversify out of like the normal things that they're, you know, that they're, that they're holding on balance sheet, to kind of look a little fuzzier, like art, then like you've got a new marginal buyer. And, and I think that's, that's there's, there's something kind of interesting about that that's worth flagging.
00;25;42;12 - 00;26;03;02
Derek
It doesn't mean that like, they're going to be buying our bags or they're going to be buying crypto or they're gonna be buying any of this, or the vast majority of fine art. But it's clear that there are certain artists and certain objects that, command that type of, yeah, that that can be underwritten to kind of like continue to appreciate even from the levels that they're paying.
00;26;03;02 - 00;26;22;29
Derek
And so if there's that confidence at the very end of the market, then you to your point, pretty, you may start to see a little bit more kind of like trailing out onto the curve to, to underwrite things that are orders of magnitude less than value. But now have line of sight on kind of a new prospective buyer that's kind of showing up here at the end.
00;26;23;01 - 00;26;38;15
Derek
The line. So yeah, it's interesting. I thought that was and it wasn't just the, the yeah, it was I think I went I was kind of going through it, the catalog, I mean, it was dozens and dozens of dozens of pieces that had multi-million dollar prints. So yeah, it's pretty interesting.
00;26;38;18 - 00;26;45;14
Aaron
Yeah. There was like a basket too, that went for record breaking prices if my memory serves. So it's pretty, pretty interesting.
00;26;45;16 - 00;26;47;09
Pri
It was a it was a good sale.
00;26;47;11 - 00;26;50;13
Aaron
Yeah. I'm sure they were pumped. Completely pumped.
00;26;50;16 - 00;26;51;10
Pri
They needed it.
00;26;51;13 - 00;27;12;21
Chris
Also, a good day for the Lauder estate. You know, one of the most legendary collectors of all times. I think that was was the highlight of his collection. He, he gave a whole basket of, cubist stuff to the met, like, a decade ago. That was pretty insane as well. I think it was just, like, valued at $1 billion in like, 2013 money.
00;27;12;25 - 00;27;21;12
Chris
Well, I actually spent a weekend with that guy, and it was before I had any appreciation for art. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And,
00;27;21;15 - 00;27;23;25
Aaron
They they were they good folks or.
00;27;23;28 - 00;27;44;11
Chris
I only met Leonard and. Yeah, he was amazing guy. Really nice. Very warm, charitable, you know, very, like, quick to dispense advice and just, like a nice dude. No, he kept telling me that I should die in the chair, that I should never stop working. That was like, the overarching message was just like, keep going.
00;27;44;11 - 00;27;45;21
Aaron
Die in the chair.
00;27;45;23 - 00;27;52;25
Chris
Die. And no, he literally said that to me. He's like, a good life is one when you die in the chair. And I was like, oh my gosh.
00;27;52;27 - 00;27;55;11
Aaron
I think that's the title of today's episode of.
00;27;55;13 - 00;27;56;27
Chris
Die in the chair.
00;27;56;29 - 00;28;03;25
Pri
We're out of retirement. You're yelling at your sleeve, but like you are in the chair grinding it out on multiple screens.
00;28;03;28 - 00;28;07;22
Chris
I think this Leonard would have wanted it that way for me.
00;28;07;24 - 00;28;15;03
Aaron
I think that's really like a lot of folks are doing that. I mean, that's a good way to even think about all these crypto traders right now.
00;28;15;05 - 00;28;17;11
Chris
Too soon, Aaron, too soon, I know.
00;28;17;14 - 00;28;20;25
Pri
Soon as you guys are wrecked, man. It's it's a little sad.
00;28;20;27 - 00;28;33;11
Aaron
Hey, you know what else I've been hearing this week? I think, vibe coding is finally out as a term. Now people are just calling it, and then just. Well, now it's AI coding. There's still, a modifier there.
00;28;33;11 - 00;28;37;08
Chris
But you've been waiting for this. Aaron, I know you've hated the term AI, and.
00;28;37;09 - 00;28;52;00
Aaron
Then, yeah, I, I get like, I, I don't like when things are, I don't know, I find it I see people do this all the time. They just pick a term. It's a catchy, but it's also like a little like backhanded. There's like a backhand in his to it.
00;28;52;02 - 00;28;54;05
Pri
It was backhanded. Yeah.
00;28;54;08 - 00;29;22;07
Aaron
And I think that I think it's interesting that the software industry is starting to like get rid of that. And just acknowledge, like this is the way to just do it. So it feels like, it feels like that's happening in New York. There's been like a lot of AI engineering events, you know, somebody was comparing it to like the fervor around like NFT NYC during like, the halcyon days of the last crypto cycle, just in terms of excitement inside events and like all this other stuff.
00;29;22;07 - 00;29;43;10
Aaron
So it definitely feels like there's like an inflection point that's that we're marching towards there. Like I was listening to, former Stanford professor early, you know, one of the AI urges, and he was referring and referring to it that way. Guy Prize. Top, you know, thousand global coder. And he was just like, I don't like to write software.
00;29;43;10 - 00;29;52;10
Aaron
I just like to use AI to generate my code. So it feels like the, the software elites have finally realized that this is the future.
00;29;52;12 - 00;30;02;11
Chris
Hey, Derek, do you hear that? Our, the most prolific vibe coder we know is has just gotten his status upgraded. He can now join growth marketers and data scientists.
00;30;02;13 - 00;30;05;13
Aaron
Yeah, it's a respectable profession that.
00;30;05;16 - 00;30;09;25
Derek
We're all proud of it. And.
00;30;09;27 - 00;30;16;10
Pri
No, they needed to switch that term because I think it was, like, backhanded. I don't think it intentionally was meant to do, but it kind of.
00;30;16;10 - 00;30;17;05
Aaron
Got out of control.
00;30;17;05 - 00;30;21;18
Pri
But it's just like, yeah, this it's just coding now. Coding has now officially changed.
00;30;21;21 - 00;30;22;25
Aaron
I mean, it's pretty cool.
00;30;22;27 - 00;30;45;05
Pri
Software programmers like on Twitter, like I'm like in their ivory tower, like initially I don't think now they do. But like initially they were very like vibe coding is like spaghetti code, it's not good, whatever, etc. and I think now that it's sort of shifting, like they were sort of disparaging towards vibe coding, I think, like I've noticed that that shift completely.
00;30;45;07 - 00;30;46;15
Pri
Yeah.
00;30;46;18 - 00;31;11;24
Aaron
Yeah, I think it's I mean, I think we're just hitting inflection points. And I mean, we saw that this week also with Google announcing its new models, which rapidly caught up or potentially surpassed some of the existing models from the hyperscalers. So it's that I think Google's kind of like, Phoenix rising from the ashes when it comes to AI is a pretty interesting and important kind of story that that's happening.
00;31;11;24 - 00;31;32;10
Aaron
I, you know, the thing that jumped out to me was, and I don't think this got, as much attention as I thought it should, but they train those models on their own chips. Right. So I do wonder if, like some of the softness around Nvidia is also like a recognition that they're like monopoly, quasi monopoly, you know, may now be a duopoly with Google.
00;31;32;13 - 00;31;39;18
Aaron
You know, being able to kind of vertically integrate that that entire kind of, you know, training stack like.
00;31;39;25 - 00;31;42;00
Pri
Google is telling them it's are they selling?
00;31;42;00 - 00;32;11;17
Aaron
I don't, I don't know, I know it's a TP. I think it's a TPU instead of a GPU. So it's something that they, I think designed and developed and in-house, which is just kind of interesting. I mean, they obviously have the scale to do that, but, you know, they have such great distribution. You know, I think we saw and I don't want to overindex on that, but like Warren Buffett, like get off of his chair because he's dying in the chair to Chris and, and decide to make like a big bet on Google, which I thought was kind of interesting.
00;32;11;17 - 00;32;12;09
Aaron
Tim.
00;32;12;11 - 00;32;33;14
Chris
Yeah. I never, never, never failed. Warren. First of all, congrats to Sergey for like, getting back in the chair and you showing everyone why he's Sergey Brin. I also do think that a Google seems to have, like, insulated itself from contagion in this whole thing. Like, you don't really hear about Google in the Sky net. Correct too.
00;32;33;16 - 00;32;54;05
Chris
And so, you know, when you have the the have to go it alone. You know, I think there's probably certain strengths where like you can just really focus in on what you want to do and not be worrying about, like credit ratings and co-financing of power deals and, you know, all this other stuff that, like their competitors are trying to wrap their arms around.
00;32;54;05 - 00;33;14;09
Chris
And so that's probably bullish for them as well. And I guess while we're talking about inflection points here, I was doing like a periodic sweep of like, oh, I bet some of my annual AI accounts are like coming up. You know, subscriptions are coming up for renewal. What's old and what should I call? And I realize, like, I haven't fucking use Midjourney at all.
00;33;14;12 - 00;33;34;08
Chris
Like, let's, let's kill the journey. So I killed that one. And then I was pissy a clod. Right? Because like, they've just rate limited that thing to the point of uselessness. And that was coming up in a couple weeks. So I killed that one. And then ChatGPT made the mistake of emailing me while apparently I was in a subscription killing mode.
00;33;34;08 - 00;33;42;21
Chris
And like, there's alarms everywhere I've got, like API credits coming out of the lawsuit and I, you know, I was just like, fuck it, I'm going to kill ChatGPT.
00;33;42;27 - 00;33;43;09
Aaron
Sub as.
00;33;43;09 - 00;33;47;21
Chris
Well, and I nuke that one. And so now I don't even have like an LLM subscription.
00;33;47;25 - 00;33;49;24
Aaron
Your APIs only Chris.
00;33;49;26 - 00;33;52;07
Chris
Your APIs only man.
00;33;52;09 - 00;34;01;17
Aaron
You're just an agent. You just and MQ calling into the world. What is your, approach to payment system or I'll send you some micropayments.
00;34;01;20 - 00;34;03;05
Chris
Incorporate.
00;34;03;07 - 00;34;18;00
Pri
Chris, do you feel like your that's going to be more of a trend like these API you know, calls to OEMs and these type of, you know, wrapper things that people pay for versus like the underlying MLM. Or do you think that you're just sort of like unique in that.
00;34;18;03 - 00;34;46;18
Chris
I don't know, free? Like I get further faster than most people and I think the novelty space of like lines were off for me a long time ago. My last like real heavy line usage, was when I was copyediting the book, and since then I haven't needed it. And there used to be a time where, like, I would go, like, wanting to learn more about a thing or like, really get into the weeds or something.
00;34;46;18 - 00;35;14;23
Chris
And I would go to LMS and like either my focus is at a point in time, right now because I'm building where like, I don't have space for that, or and this is partially like one of my issues with Claude is they were dumbing down like it was being steered too hard. And like I would come in with a very like specific query that already implied, like, you know, introduction, domain knowledge.
00;35;14;26 - 00;35;36;23
Chris
And Claude would be like, oh, I see you're talking about the treaty was failure. Or, you know, I see you're talking about the Toyota hybrid engine. And it's like, no, no, no, no, I'm asking you like a third level question about that thing. Like, stop fucking wasting my time. And that was one of my frustrations as well. But then it's just the ubiquity of these things, like, they're everywhere, like even like some basic queries.
00;35;36;23 - 00;35;54;17
Chris
Now that Google, you know, search results like now that it's gotten there, I summary bot tamed like I do feel like lines are everywhere. And so I guess like the bigger trend I'm saying is I don't need to pay for this shit anymore because what it's giving me isn't worth paying for.
00;35;54;20 - 00;36;20;16
Aaron
Yeah, it's a good point, Chris. Another way I think you're you're starting to feel the commoditization. I feel that too. You know, where I'm, like, flipping between models a bit more like it used to be just 1 or 2. Now there's like 3 or 4. There's like a little bit of specialization that's happening, but it's not enough to, to potentially, you know, be locking I on the OpenAI side, though, I do think that their web app has some additional tech that is pretty amazing.
00;36;20;19 - 00;36;39;22
Aaron
Like if you're like using it almost like a Google replacement. I think that they really have to dial that in. And it's quite good. So I wonder if that's kind of where we're going to see some of the innovation move to like less, core engine and more kind of like the wrapper speed, speed of inference, like stuff like that, which is which would be a healthy thing.
00;36;39;25 - 00;36;50;01
Pri
That's kind of probably optimistic for like, perplexity, like, I don't use perplexity at all, but people love it. I'm like, why would like my logic is like, why use perplexity if you have like underlying all but like maybe I just need to actually.
00;36;50;01 - 00;36;56;05
Aaron
Give it a shot. Yeah. I never used to use that. Eric, are you, are you feeling, Chris?
00;36;56;07 - 00;37;24;14
Derek
Victor, I, I don't use perplexity, but I, I, I will say that, like, I am a pretty avid user of, as have a few of the other tools. And I do think, yeah, I mean, I will say I like I'm a pretty power power user of just between five and and I think it's a to me it's, it's fantastic for in concert with kind of, deep research for a lot of the things that that I need, to kind of like add to my workflow.
00;37;24;20 - 00;37;47;25
Derek
Definitely doing less on the coding side. So I look for signal from you guys and, and other tinkerers that I chat with. I'll probably just also say that. Yeah. I mean, I would say like, almost 100% of my portfolio at this point is are using these, these tools for developing code and have putting workflows together internally.
00;37;47;29 - 00;38;08;17
Derek
And, and, you know, maybe not offloading coding their coding process entirely to these tools, but are using them more and more as part of like different stacks in their workflow. And yeah, it's just like, I don't know that the coding stuff is probably like the first the penetration of the coding stuff is pretty powerful, and I just feel like it's only going to ramp up.
00;38;08;17 - 00;38;18;06
Derek
And it's fun for me to to tune into that, every week and hear you guys listening about how you're tinkering with this stuff. And I just think it's it's speeding up, not slowing down.
00;38;18;09 - 00;38;19;27
Chris
Yeah. No, it is speeding.
00;38;19;27 - 00;38;25;13
Aaron
Where do you think that lands, Chris. Yeah. Like that's what I was going to ask because it's speeding up. Like where does it land at the end of the day?
00;38;25;15 - 00;38;51;13
Chris
I mean I do think like basic elm type stuff is, is going to get is commoditized already and that OpenAI will may have like peaked from a, a subscriber base at least in their current plan and product line up form. So, you know, especially if like we do enter into lean times, like I kind of feel like that 20 bucks a month subscription is is peaked.
00;38;51;16 - 00;39;24;28
Chris
One thing I think it's interesting, you know, like we've we've been looking around at the world model stuff. We talked about Marvel. But you know, taking a second look around that like considering like, you know, Yann LeCun leaving Facebook or Meta, and then I saw something, from the Huggingface, co-founder where he, he did his interview and he said, we're not in an AI bubble, but what we're in is an lln bubble that, like the limb itself, is piqued and like, kind of like triangulating a bunch of different things.
00;39;24;28 - 00;39;56;22
Chris
Like what I'm hearing more is like a reasoned acceleration is take that look. There's, a lot more you can do with heirlooms. And like, the development of Elm should continue, you know, down these, like, task specialization and, like, expanded role point of view, but that, like, you know, I guess, to me, part of the joy of like, you know, the whole LLN era was watching them go horizontal in terms of, like adding new capabilities.
00;39;56;22 - 00;40;20;09
Chris
And I feel like that horizontal spread of limbs is probably we're not going to get much broader. And that like it's time for them to, start getting deeper and more vertical in their specializations and what they can be doing. And so yeah, like to me, the shift feels more like, hey, we need to get on with like net new foundational models.
00;40;20;09 - 00;40;41;11
Chris
Like we need to open up like that horizontal experience to new model classes and like the shape of like what an LLM is going to be is now kind of known. And if you want to stay in Elm World, that's great. You know, because there is so much work to be done there. But, you know, like in Elm is like guide and it's not going to get much wider.
00;40;41;11 - 00;40;43;27
Chris
I think it's kind of the feel I'm getting out there. I don't know.
00;40;44;04 - 00;41;07;18
Aaron
I think I think playing that back, it's kind of like, we're finally probably moving into the land of fine tuning some of these models to get the next leg up. You know, I saw something, on the timeline and yesterday, which was just talking about how Gemini basically beat most radiologists, you know, the folks that look like x rays and other other kind of machines that are looking inside your body.
00;41;07;20 - 00;41;33;10
Aaron
And, I thought that was kind of notable, just on like the core reasoning capabilities, but probably to get, you know, better than the average doctor, right? You may start to need some, some specialization and some fine tuning. So I think there's kind of like a if you're right, Chris, and I think you maybe, like, I think there's like a that maybe the next, the next wave, of it, you know, I saw those things too.
00;41;33;10 - 00;41;48;20
Aaron
And I on the Huggingface side, they're obviously super incentivized for that not to be the case. Right. And I can't tell with like, the Coon whether or not he's just kind of like a little sour grapes because he's not, you know, he's not in the center of the AI universe anymore. So that's my only kind of question there.
00;41;48;27 - 00;41;54;26
Aaron
People are like, looking for a reason to like, hate on, like AI right now. For a variety of reasons.
00;41;55;03 - 00;41;55;18
Chris
Yes.
00;41;55;18 - 00;42;13;07
Pri
And also, is that what he's arguing is like in many ways, like the quality and depth and basically the, the reasoning and, and thinking from an L, is somewhat plateauing. And like, maybe there's some, you know, improvements on the edges, but this is like the best it's ever going to get. Like, that's kind of how I'm reading that.
00;42;13;07 - 00;42;15;27
Pri
But like, I, you know, you tell me if that's kind of what he's saying.
00;42;16;04 - 00;42;33;29
Chris
Yeah. The headline he, he's starting out is lines are not going to get you to AGI, but like, I don't think a lot of people are disagreeing with him on that take either. So yeah, maybe there's an element of sour grapes in there as well. Yeah. I don't I don't follow him closely enough. I can't really say what we'll talk about.
00;42;33;29 - 00;42;35;27
Chris
The world of James Garfield lived.
00;42;36;00 - 00;42;38;10
Aaron
I did finish that. Chris. Did you finish it?
00;42;38;13 - 00;42;40;22
Chris
I did, I did, what do you think?
00;42;40;27 - 00;42;42;04
Aaron
I thought it was great.
00;42;42;06 - 00;43;06;13
Chris
I enjoyed it. Yeah. Like, I look, I, I always enjoy a little historic, like a period piece. I enjoy, like, politics. I enjoy, you know, entertainment in which I learn more stuff. But it was also very well cast and, you know, like, I, I thought they were, I mean, obviously, like, extremely sympathetic, to Garfield, but like, for something that ended in.
00;43;06;13 - 00;43;25;16
Chris
I don't know how to say this, you know, like, I just totally. They've wrapped the whole thing pretty well for something that was like. I mean, it obviously was very conclusive and that Garfield was assassinated, but, you know, it was also kind of like your big picture, you know, life goes on. You know what I mean? I don't know.
00;43;25;18 - 00;43;32;29
Aaron
Yeah. But was that the first, like, presidential assassination? I think so, right. I didn't actually look that up, but I thought.
00;43;32;29 - 00;43;35;08
Chris
That was Lincoln. They got Lincoln before him.
00;43;35;10 - 00;43;37;29
Aaron
The big one is Lincoln before or after I was?
00;43;37;29 - 00;43;41;09
Chris
Yeah. Garfield's like 1868, I think about it.
00;43;41;15 - 00;44;09;26
Aaron
So it was like a to two of those. And I mean it is kind of wild I, I can imagine that happening today. Right. I guess we got like a almost a glimpse of that before the last election, that insane shooting, related to it. I thought it was good. I mean, I, I said there's a lot of subtle things that are like it show like the, the challenges of the spoils system that I guess, you know, Jackson kind of put together where everybody was, like, clamoring for government jobs or being like bought, sold and traded, which I thought was kind of interesting.
00;44;09;28 - 00;44;31;03
Aaron
So I just think, you know, it was an interesting peek into, like, how consensus was built before mass media. Right? Like all these different people that were like stumping and kind of advocating in their local communities. There was something like quaint and refreshing about that. And that was great. I hope, the Hollywood powers that be greenlight a couple more of these types of books into American history.
00;44;31;09 - 00;44;42;03
Aaron
I think, I think it's a obviously a fascinating place and lots of really interesting things to kind of shine a light on. Did you check out Pluribus yet? No.
00;44;42;05 - 00;44;51;02
Chris
Yeah. My wife wants to watch that one. It's in the hopper. But we just picked up the second season of our Slow Horses, which is fantastic, so.
00;44;51;09 - 00;45;15;23
Aaron
Oh, great. Well, I would recommend that. I mean, it's pretty cool. The premise is like, there's, like, kind of like an alien. It's not really like a DNA, but like an alien virus that turns everybody into a hive mind. I think there's like some really deep criticisms of conformity and all these concepts that I think are kind of like lurking under, under the surface that, you know, Vince Gilligan, I think that's how you pronounce his last name, is just commenting on and great.
00;45;15;29 - 00;45;16;14
Aaron
I mean, oh.
00;45;16;14 - 00;45;18;18
Chris
The X-Files guy.
00;45;18;20 - 00;45;38;29
Aaron
You know, the guy from breaking Bad? No. Yeah. It's like Breaking Bad and better call all the same. Looks like the same, team that did those. And, I mean, I think I think that guy or that team is really, proving out that they're, like, some of the best in the business. It's pretty compelling. A little slow at points, but not, like, a bad way.
00;45;39;03 - 00;45;42;08
Aaron
But it's, it's a pretty cool concept show.
00;45;42;10 - 00;45;44;04
Chris
All right, I'll give it a whirl.
00;45;44;07 - 00;45;50;27
Aaron
Definitely enjoy it. Yeah. Worth it when you're, when you're working through whatever, refactoring. You're working through right now.
00;45;50;29 - 00;45;59;09
Chris
It's, It's hilarious. I freaking threw The Da Vinci Code on, yesterday while working, and.
00;45;59;12 - 00;46;02;00
Aaron
That pulled up, like.
00;46;02;02 - 00;46;25;01
Chris
Nostalgically terrible. But also, I have very muddled feelings about it, like, hey, you know, like, I read The Da Vinci Code, God knows, like 25 years ago or whatever. Like it was a big thing. And then I do remember, like the movie was a big step down from the book. And yes, the movie is a step down, like having rewatched it.
00;46;25;01 - 00;47;02;28
Chris
But then there's something, yeah, nostalgic for production values and like the globe hopping type of stuff. But it's also like utterly ridiculous in a way that, like the whole premise, right, of The Da Vinci Code is Tom Hanks. Robert Langdon is, you know, a world expert on decoding symbols and that, you know, there's all this hidden meaning and that work 25 years ago because we didn't have that level of information, knowledge, and you could say things like, oh, well, of course, the Grail is connected to Alexander Pope and Isaac Newton and Leonardo da Vinci.
00;47;02;28 - 00;47;31;14
Chris
And, you know, the priorities lie on this, that and the other. And nowadays you can just like asking Lem, like, how much of this is absolute horseshit, you know what I mean? Like that whole secret society or it's been a little pierced, and it was also done in a way where what I was noticing watching it is it's too intricate to fly nowadays, like it requires a little too much attention, especially having, like, a not like seen it in 25 years and be like vibe coding while it's going on.
00;47;31;14 - 00;47;46;01
Chris
Like, I don't think people could handle that level of like puzzle making and you know, like just having to follow every oh, well, this means that and then that drives us to this sort of stuff.
00;47;46;03 - 00;48;07;12
Aaron
Yeah, it's interesting, but at the same time it's kind of like maybe it was like, the appetizer for a lot of folks that are looking for kind of these hidden meanings and symbols and connections and like a world that's a little bit more chaotic. I don't know if that inquiry is ever going to stop. But, you know, it's funny, I was actually recommending to to some folks that they should really they were looking for something to read.
00;48;07;12 - 00;48;14;03
Aaron
And I was like, oh, they wanted something light. And I was like, oh, maybe you should pick up those types of books. They're they're pretty amazing. I mean, they were epic when they came out.
00;48;14;08 - 00;48;39;07
Chris
Oh, yes. No. And like I, I am a sucker for like third like multiple characters, multiple locations, interconnected story. So like, I mean, that's you know, what I like to write. Like I always like my, my big aspiration is like a genre fiction writer is just like, can't do something. And Tom Clancy ask, you know, because to me, like, that's just I love the shit out of that stuff.
00;48;39;07 - 00;48;40;20
Chris
So yeah, I hear. Yeah.
00;48;40;22 - 00;49;01;11
Aaron
Yeah. Or like a Michael Crichton or like a Clive Cussler. I think that I feel like there's been a little bit of a void in that. I guess nobody reads them now. I don't know if you saw, like, the report on all the educational members across the States. It's like pretty grim, just, reading and, you know, basic, you know, math, reading proficiency.
00;49;01;11 - 00;49;15;02
Aaron
It's like, I'm glad that, like, we're finally shining a spotlight on that. I think that those like, essential things, you know, should be, should be something we want to talk about and kind of sort of feels like people are in the mood for that, again, which is good.
00;49;15;09 - 00;49;23;18
Chris
Well, not too scary, Aaron, but I'm hearing they're getting rid of the regents in New York so your kid can graduate high school being a dummy.
00;49;23;21 - 00;49;41;01
Aaron
Yeah, but it's like converting, like I saw, Noah Smith, economist. Like, tweet out that it looks like in, like, southern states, they're, they're like, numbers are getting better. And like, northern states, their numbers are dipping. So it's almost like the world is turning upside down when it comes. You know what that's about?
00;49;41;03 - 00;49;45;03
Chris
All that all the kids in the northeast are going to like SEC schools now.
00;49;45;05 - 00;49;50;06
Aaron
Yeah, I mean, there's that too. But I think this is more like the high school level. But I just thought it was interesting. You know.
00;49;50;11 - 00;49;59;09
Chris
They're saying down there they're marrying insurance brokers, they're having kids. They're they're bringing like Tiger Mom that that's down to the South.
00;49;59;12 - 00;50;22;13
Aaron
Yeah, maybe. I mean, I, I mean, I guess that's the good part. I mean, for those that may not be as familiar with this, like the American South has struggled with basic, educational attainment. And it looks like they it's like right there, right at the ship while like some of the newer approaches to teaching in the northeast may not be paying the dividends that some of the, you know, policy folks there wanted to, or were hoping that they'd kind of achieve.
00;50;22;13 - 00;50;43;14
Aaron
But I don't know, to me, it's weird. I feel like that the conversation related to it and like, it's like, seems pretty level headed, like on all all sides is like encouraging because, you know, we need to find like, new points of consensus. And I'm glad people one my basic, you know, educational attainment to be to be a part of that I don't know the right answers.
00;50;43;17 - 00;50;54;26
Aaron
I would keep the Regents and maybe some of the testing. I do think it served some purpose. You know, I think it's it's reasonably healthy. I don't know if I went too far, but I know folks were worried about that.
00;50;54;29 - 00;51;09;18
Chris
Yeah, that's always a tricky one because like, on the one hand, you're like, well, no one can do math. This is terrible. On the other hand, like as a parent, like you start hearing like your kids stop learning things like in the middle of April. And they just geared towards Regents Prep and you're like, what the fuck is this?
00;51;09;18 - 00;51;10;00
Chris
You know.
00;51;10;00 - 00;51;28;13
Aaron
Yeah. That. Yeah. Completely. It does feel like, you know, we're also kind of, I think a lot of stuff now is still like fallout from Covid and this feels like the, like one of the last ones. I think one of the tragedies for me of that era was just how much we were willing to, like, throw kids under the bus when it came to like, education without like, much accountability.
00;51;28;14 - 00;51;36;08
Aaron
So it feels like there's at least conversations related to that happening. I don't know if there'll be a accountability, but at least maybe they'll, try to reform some.
00;51;36;09 - 00;52;01;26
Chris
It's like, no, definitely that the whole Covid thing is, is real. Like we're we're backfilling like some gaps in the like my son's education right now. He like, you know, we get ready to send him off to high school and like basic grammar, you know, like what he should have been learning like, you know, he was in like third or fourth grade during Covid, like it's it's a very weak basis, he adds.
00;52;01;26 - 00;52;21;26
Chris
And we're like, okay, dude, we clearly like missed this shit. You know, because you're very strong in other areas. And now we're just realizing, oh, you just never fucking learned this. Let's, you know, get this foot in your brain. Let's. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a software patch. Basic grammar.
00;52;21;28 - 00;52;52;12
Aaron
Yeah. That's patch to some guys. You know, I also feel like there's like, like a shift on, like AI and people beginning to realize, okay, this is not going away. Like the, you know, kind of the resistance there is fading, and they're trying to figure out how to responsibly, like, incorporate that, which is kind of fun with, you know, with my daughter, I, I think I found, like, a rough cadence there where she'll, like, do the work and then use that as kind of like a checker, like a greater, you know, to to know if she did good.
00;52;52;14 - 00;53;06;21
Aaron
Well or not. Specific assignment and then, you know, fill the gaps and what she may not have understood or picked up in class or something like that. I feel like there's some really productive flywheels and feedback loops that you can build with these systems, which, hopefully makes everybody stronger.
00;53;06;23 - 00;53;17;12
Chris
Than with, Derek and Tre having to, like, leave for meetings or deepen the talk here. Should we talk about rebalancing our four one case for the upcoming blah, blah blah, or.
00;53;17;14 - 00;53;18;06
Aaron
I mean, do.
00;53;18;09 - 00;53;22;13
Chris
You want to get into, like, supplemental Medicaid? Aaron, where which way to go here.
00;53;22;19 - 00;53;24;18
Aaron
Whichever you want to go there. Chris.
00;53;24;20 - 00;53;37;02
Chris
Who is talking like James Garfield, man, I like oh man, I saw a really sweet Ford Bronco. I'm thinking of, restoring, talk on that society.
00;53;37;08 - 00;53;56;19
Aaron
This is, corner. Let's go. All right. Well, welcome to Net society. For those that made it all the way through, I'm, Aaron, I'm here with Chris. And Derek were here. They had to drop early. We're talking all things internet, AI, crypto, art, technology, culture, and and a little bit of politics.
00;53;56;21 - 00;53;59;06
Chris
19th century American history.
00;53;59;09 - 00;54;11;12
Aaron
Yeah, we got range. We got depth here. Just a quick reminder. Nothing we say here, is financial advice and nothing relates to any of our parent organizations. So let's kick it off.
00;54;11;15 - 00;54;16;06
Chris
All right. Nice one. I really want a couple slices of pizza. I'm going to go grab some lunch.
00;54;16;10 - 00;54;18;25
Aaron
Yeah. Me too.
00;54;18;28 - 00;54;30;01
Aaron
Oh.