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You know your business needs to change, but you’re caught in the emotional and relational dynamics that are holding you back. Welcome to Noble Metal, the podcast that helps you forge a new kind of leadership. Host Phillip Weiss, a seasoned executive coach and organizational consultant, reveals how to become a more resilient, deliberate, and less-anxious leader.
Through powerful insights based on Bowen Theory and systems thinking, you’ll learn to navigate complex workplace relationships, manage challenging strategic issues, and lead your team to sustainable change. Get the clarity and tools you need to forge a new path for your business.
Ep09
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Why Conflict MattersWelcome and Series Setup
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[00:00:00]
Phillip Weiss: Welcome to Noble Metal, where we explore leadership at work and in life through the lens of Bowen Family Systems theory. Currently, we are in part two of a part miniseries where we're exploring the five reactive patterns under stress. Today we're gonna explore the second of these patterns, the tendency toward conflict.
So, because conflict gets a pretty terrible [00:01:00] reputation, let's just get straight to it here. Most of us hear the word conflict and immediately think problem failure, or at least a really uncomfortable conversation.
Why Conflict Is Normal
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Phillip Weiss: But bow in theory might actually say something a little different. From this perspective, conflict isn't a sign that something necessarily has gone wrong.
It's actually pretty normal. Conflict is usually expected anytime two or more people are emotionally connected, especially if they care for each other and or work closely together. There are gonna be differences. Differences in values, differences in priorities, communication styles, and definitely differences in how people handle stress.
Some people handle stress by talking it out. Other people handle stress by going quiet and pulling away, and we're gonna get to that in the next episode. With conflict though, people are attempting to manage the stress and the increased togetherness by moving [00:02:00] toward one another.
So the real question isn't will conflict happen, but the question actually might be how much tension is in the system when conflict does happen, and can it be navigated constructively? Can we navigate that conflict or manage that conflict more constructively? And I believe we can, when anxiety is low.
People can disagree and still stay connected, but when anxiety is high, conflict can become unproductive very quickly.
Differing Successfully
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Phillip Weiss: A question I like to ask people sometimes is, can you differ successfully with somebody else?
Let me repeat that. Can you differ successfully with another person?
Workplace ExampleDiffering Successfully at Work
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Phillip Weiss: Here's a simple example of two people managing conflict successfully, in this case, in a business setting without the boss having to [00:03:00] step in. So imagine a project manager and a software developer working on a product launch. The project manager's pushing hard on deadlines.
The de developers pushing back saying the timeline isn't realistic at first, their conversations get pretty tense. The project manager feels like the developer's being uncooperative. The developer feels like the project manager doesn't understand the work, but instead of escalating, the project manager pauses and says to the developer, I can, I can feel myself getting frustrated.
I'm not trying to pressure you personally. I'm an but I'm anxious about this launch and what's at stake. Can we slow down and talk through what you're saying? The developer responds with something equally grounded. You know, I, I appreciate that. I'm not trying to block progress, but I'm concerned that if we rush this, we'll create bigger problems later.
Let me show you what's driving my estimate. Something now [00:04:00] shifts. They're still in conflict. They still disagree, but they're no longer reacting to each other. They move from blame to increased clarity. They lay out what's possible, what's not possible, what trade-offs there are, and what each can commit to.
They don't need to win necessarily. No one needs to be the winner. They don't need the other person to admit fault. They just work to stay calm, connected, and responsible for their own parts. And by the end of the conversation, they've adjusted the timeline and protected the relationship. That is a differentiated conflict conversation.
That's kind of a mouthful. Two people thinking clearly under pressure without making the other person the enemy. And this, in my opinion, is differing successfully.
Differentiation and ConnectionDifferentiation Explained
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Phillip Weiss: One of the most helpful things that Bowman Theory teaches is that [00:05:00] relationships aren't primarily built on agreement. They're built on emotional connection, and when people are emotionally connected, we affect each other.
We react to each other. We feel each other's stress, even without realizing it. Sometimes you can literally walk into a room and just sense that something has happened because you know these people. So conflict isn't necessarily a breakdown, but I think that it's often evidence that the system is alive.
And in healthier systems, people can stay emotionally connected and still think clearly in Kuhn conflict. These differences don't require, as I said earlier, somebody to win, somebody to lose discomfort doesn't automatically trigger defensiveness. And this is what Bowen really means when he talks about differentiation.
And he, he said, and I quote, differentiation of self is the capacity of the individual to define his or her own life goals and values [00:06:00] apart from the surrounding togetherness. Pressures. So in other words, I can stay a self, I can define my goals and values and I'm still maybe feeling the pressure of the togetherness, but I can still remain this self who stands in a sense apart, but remains connected.
So this doesn't mean differentiation's not about being cold or. Distant or not caring. What it means is that I'm able to say, I can stay connected to you and still stay grounded in myself. So when differentiation is reasonably high, people can say something like, Hey, I see this differently.
Or I don't agree and I still want to stay in relationship, or I can tolerate your disappointment without attacking back or attacking you. In a sense, then conflict becomes information about the emotional state. It's not necessarily a threat. It's actually maybe [00:07:00] data.
When Anxiety Hijacks ConflictWhen Anxiety Spikes
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Phillip Weiss: So where conflict becomes highly unproductive is in really anxious systems.
When that tension goes up, the theory proposes that increased tension actually amplifies emotional reactivity and pushes people toward these automatic patterns. And for some of us, we have that kind of automatic conflict. Go for the jugular. Response. Another thing that increased tension will do is it literally narrows our thinking.
Our brains literally kind of constrict as a way of trying to keep us safe and limit sort of the, the indecisiveness of multiple decisions. In anxious systems, then conflict can look like overreacting to real, really, actually relatively small issues, rehashing the same arguments, repeatedly assigning blame instead of thinking bigger picture.
And feeling an urgent need for a resolution [00:08:00] right now, I can relate to that. Sometimes when the pressure's up and there's conflict, let's, let's talk it out. Let's, let's resolve this immediately. There's that pressure in these moments, so people sometimes stop being curious and start becoming, again, more reactive.
And anxiety often turns these differences into perceived threats, including the threat of not belonging. And when belonging feels threatened, people will do almost anything to reduce that discomfort, even if it damages the long-term relationship.
Family Systems and TrianglesFamily Conflict Patterns
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Phillip Weiss: So let's bring this closer to home and take a look at a, a family example here.
Imagine a family where stress is already high, maybe because of health issues or finances. A simple disagreement might look like one person brings up a concern, another person hears criticism. When they bring it up, somebody else jumps in to fix it or take sides. And so suddenly the conflict really isn't about the [00:09:00] original issue anymore.
Instead, it's becoming more about who's right, who's wrong, who's unfair, who needs to change. Triangles emerge. A parent might align with one child against another, or a spouse pulls a child into marital tension. What happens is, is this conflict stabilizes, the anxiety temporarily. All of these reactions, these patterns we're talking about, including Kuhn conflict, have a way of temporarily lowering.
The anxiety, I mean, like I, I, if I in conflict, I, I kind of spit it out. I get it out and it feels good in the moment, but often it's at the cost of clarity and, and in some measure personal responsibility. Let's, let's take a more specific family example here.
Elder Care Roles
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Phillip Weiss: Imagine a family where an aging parent begins to decline.
Suddenly adult siblings have to make decisions about medical care, living [00:10:00] arrangements, and finances. And let me just say, no one is ever prepared for elder care and there are no easy answers here. So in this case, one sibling steps in into kind of into action mode, calling doctors, managing appointments, and organizing another sibling begins to feel sort of criticized, maybe judged and starts pulling away.
A third stays distant, but occasionally erupts with frustration. Over time, every conversation, it seems, becomes conflictual on the surface. They're arguing about care plans. But underneath, I'm wondering, in fact, if the family is really trying to manage the increased anxiety through these reactive tendencies, instead of facing uncertainty and grief together, the family kind of moves into actually predictable roles.
The role of the responsible one, the resentful one. The avoidant one triangles form.
A Differentiated Family Move
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Phillip Weiss: But then imagine one person [00:11:00] making a small differentiated move instead of arguing or over-functioning. They slow down, they pause, they stop. And they think a little bit more deliberately and say something like, Hey, I'm willing to help, but I'm not willing to do this through conflict.
I'd like us to be more clear about what each of us is willing to contribute. It doesn't magically fix everything. But here's what it does do. It starts to shift the emotional process, and this is really important. Let me just repeat that again. A move like that, comments like that, more measured, honest comments, begin to shift the emotional dynamic because the system simply can't stay the same when someone stops reacting.
So often it just takes one person making a more responsible [00:12:00] move, and this is, to me, this is the valuable, it's it's valuable insight like this that I really believe distinguishes Bowen Family Systems theory from other approaches that I know of. It's not just looking at the behavior, but it's really taking into consideration these underlying emotional processes.
Conflict Serves a Purpose
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Phillip Weiss: So from a systems perspective, conflict actually can servee a purpose even when it looks a little messy. It can discharge anxiety, it can actually create a sense of movement when things feel stuck. It can keep people emotionally engaged. It prevents separation or distancing, and in some cases it maintains some necessary predictable roles. So while conflict feels disruptive, it often helps the system maintain a sort of emotional e equilibrium, even though it may not always be done in the healthiest of ways. But on the downside though, and this is significant [00:13:00] chronic.
Anxious unmanaged conflict, which is really kind of what we're talking about here. Ultimately, punishes thoughtful dissent and exhausts emotional energy and every other kind of energy can be literally physically exhausting. It trains people to react instead of think, and it seeks enforcement of my will instead of clarity.
And it often kind of builds this negative capacity to avoid discomfort instead of building a, a, you know, some capability of being able to tolerate to, to tolerate that discomfort. So over time, relationships become brittle. And execution becomes almost impossible.
Light Brigade LessonLeadership Lesson Light Brigade
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Phillip Weiss: To that end, let me, I wanna, I wanna bring in an example for military history that's really almost painful to, to listen to in a way because it shows how conflict at the leadership level can ripple downward and destroy an entire, in this [00:14:00] case, an entire unit.
This is the story of the charge of the light brigade during the Crimean War in 1854. So British forces were fighting the Russians. And the battlefield, as you can imagine, was extremely chaotic.
There was confusion, a lot of urgency and pressure, everything you would expect on a, on a battle front. Classic conditions for what we would call a very anxious system. And in anxious systems, communications don't get clearer. It typically gets worse, and here's where it gets important. In this case, British leadership at the time had very strained relationships, and this really is the key here.
There were status issues, a lot of pride and arrogance rivalries and interpersonal conflict among commanders. And it wasn't, this wasn't just that they disagreed. This was the kind of tension where people don't trust each other, they don't [00:15:00] clarify, they don't wanna lose face, they don't even want to interact with each other.
And when that kind of emotional process is present, even simple communication can become very distorted. And that's what happened here. So a British order was given to stop the Russians from removing, captured British guns. But the message was vague.
The commander who received the order interpreted it differently than it was intended. So, in, instead of slowing down this commander asking some clarifying questions of fellow commanders or challenging the logic of the order. They moved forward. And why, why did they, because in one thought here is, is that because in this anxious system, relationships were simply frayed and truly dysfunctional, they simply could not function in, in a constructive way.
So this light Brigade cavalry soldiers specifically [00:16:00] ended up charging directly. Into a valley where Russian artillery was positioned on all sides, essentially. I mean, they ran completely into a trap and the result was devastating. The brigade suffered multiple casualties and loss of British lives, and over, interestingly, over 375 horses.
This was the time when horses were still engaging in battle in the 1850s. And it became one of the most famous examples in military history of bravery being wasted, essentially because of leadership dysfunction. So from a bow perspective, this wasn't simply or just a tactical mistake. This was a, a complete system failure.
It was leadership failing to take responsibility for their irresponsible reactivity to each other. Conflict and anxiety at the top of the leadership chain produced unclear communication, lack of clarification, et cetera, and the people [00:17:00] who paid the price were the ones at the bottom of the chain of command. And this is a sober, very sobering example of how unresolved conflict doesn't stay contained. It spreads. That's the power of the system.
How to Lead Yourself in ConflictLead Yourself First
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Phillip Weiss: Further into this podcast series, we're going to talk about how, more specifically, how to manage your own conflicts and helping others manage theirs. But for now, let me just say a few things about navigating this conflict dynamic. From a systems perspective, the question maybe it really isn't, how do I change the other person?
And as you, if you think about it in some measure, that's what conflict is. I, I am minimally going to resist you and possibly I'm actually going to change you through my force of will. So then what is the question if I can't change somebody else? What's the, you know, then, then what do I do? How do I lead?
The question really is maybe more, how do [00:18:00] I lead myself differently in this relationship? I can't change the other person. So then what shot do I have at doing something a little bit differently myself and leading myself somewhat differently in this relationship dynamic?
Four Practical MovesPractical Steps to Stay Grounded
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Phillip Weiss: So the first point I want to just note is that is is focusing on myself and not the other.
So instead of they need to stop, they need to do this, try thinking more, what am I responsible for here? What do I have control over here? What is my, what is my part in this? Secondly, slow down reactivity. This is, this is an easy one to talk about, hard to do. I immediately, but slowing down reactivity anxiety creates urgency, differentiation, being more of a self, slowing down, create space.
Pause before defending, before explaining, before [00:19:00] persuading, before acting again. This is hard to do, I admit. And, and it's our responsibility. I really believe as leaders, it is our responsibility to work toward managing these reactive tendencies and hitting that pause button, whatever that might look for like for you could go a long way.
Thirdly, stay connected without overexplaining clear calm statements like, this is how I see it. This is what I'm willing to do. This is what I'm not willing to do. Doesn't necessarily require long justifications and no kind of emotional flooding or overwhelm.
So the fourth item is. The ability to tolerate discomfort. Easy for me to say, admittedly, tough to do. If you have signed up to be a leader, whether you're a parent or a boss, there is going to be a certain level of [00:20:00] discomfort that has to be tolerated.
Growth actually requires our ability to tolerate things like disapproval. Misunderstanding, temporary tension. All of these go with that leadership turf. And again, it's easy for me to sit here and talk about this and harder to do, but I think sometimes just our awareness that we need to begin moving into these spaces is helpful.
A more differentiated approach than. Looks like thinking, while feeling.
So we're not, we're still feeling, but we're also working toward moving into thoughtful, more deliberate intention. It looks like speaking calmly, but still staying emotionally present. I'm still staying in the kitchen. When the heat's up, I still hold my position without needing necessarily the other person to agree.
And working to stay curious rather than reactive. How do we do that? One of the ways I think we do that is we ask for ask [00:21:00] clarifying questions. So it sounds like maybe it, it, what it sounds like are phrases like or statements like, I may be wrong, but here's how I understand it. I care about you and I see this differently.
Or I'm open to learning and I'm clear about my stance. So this approach admittedly doesn't guarantee resolution or harmony or approval, but I will say that as we move in, make more differentiated moves along these lines, it does have the tendency to promote increased maturity, higher integrity.
' cause candidly, we're starting to speak truth and long-term relational.
Final Challenge and Next EpisodeClosing Challenge
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Phillip Weiss: Health conflict isn't the enemy, folks, it's how we react to it that can trip us up sometimes. And from a Bowman theory perspective, the work isn't to eliminate conflict, but to increase our capacity to manage ourselves in the midst of it.
[00:22:00] So. As you think about conflict, I, and this concept as a automatic reactive tendency, I challenge you to think about a situation where you're feeling kind of drawn into some conflict right now. How are you managing it? How are you specifically managing it? How is the other person or persons, how are they managing it?
What behaviors of yours might be more reactive and less productive? Then what would more thoughtful, differentiated moves look like from you?
People do not always have to agree to stay connected. They just need the power and courage sometimes to slow things down. Think clearly. And stay present. Thank you for listening today. If you like what you've heard, please leave a comment. Join me on the next episode where we will talk about pattern number three, distancing and cutoff, which is a [00:23:00] crowd favorite.
Thank you, and we'll see you next time.