Journey Unveiled: Coming to the Light - Beyond the Outpost Episode 5

Join us as CJ opens up about his journey, sharing his deeply personal testimony of triumph over adversity. From facing daunting challenges to discovering inner strength and purpose, CJ's story is one of resilience, hope, and transformation. Through his candid reflections, CJ invites us into his world, offering insights and lessons learned along the way. Prepare to be inspired and uplifted as CJ's testimony reminds us all that no matter the obstacles we face, there is always a path forward toward greater fulfillment and joy. 

What is Beyond The Outpost?

Welcome to "Beyond the Outpost" Podcast!

Join the adventure with us as we explore the depths of personal growth, inspiration, and purpose. Hosted by Jordon Good and CJ Shaw, this podcast is your guide for navigating the path to becoming everything you were created to be.

Each episode of Beyond the Outpost features stories, thought-provoking ideas, and actionable steps to help you unlock your true potential. If you're seeking motivation, guidance, or simply a reminder of your inner strength, this podcast if for you.

Join us as we dive into the stories of individuals who have triumphed over adversity, discovered their passions, and embraced their unique calling. Through candid conversations and insightful reflections, we illuminate the pathway to self-discovery.

Whether you're at a crossroads in your life or simply seeking inspiration to fuel your journey, Beyond the Outpost is here to accompany you every step of the way. Tune in, subscribe, and let's go on an adventure together.

Jordon Good (00:00)
Some viewers may find the following video disturbing viewer discretion is advised. You were 10, 12, 13 years in torment. Finally, your biggest fear is in front of you and you realize that it's all bull crap because fear is the enemy and it's a lie. Truth comes in and very quickly you go from a 13 year journey of trying to fix it yourself to within several weeks or months. It's done. It's sealed. It's the devil can't. I'm a new creation. I'm a new creation. And that's the thing too. Like.

I'm not trying to hide it from people, right? Cause I want people to - Cause you're free. Cause I'm free. Like, and it's like, I mean, my mind where it goes is like, all right, if I try to hide this from people and then they find out about it, they're going to go away. Who are you? Right? No, I'm not staying in that graveyard. No. Right? It's like, no, I'm coming here. I'm going like, look, this is who I once was. I'm free. I was a porn addict who tried to follow Christ. Yeah. And I was not in it. Yep. And now I'm a new creation and I'm following him with all my heart and everything I do, everything in life. I try to have him.

in the midst of it and it's been different ever since. Oh yeah, good morning. We're doing a morning recording right now. So this is going to be awesome. This is the start of the day, which is different than we normally do it. Normally we do the end of the day record. So good morning. So for rubbing our eyes.

Yeah, exactly. Or if I yawn. It's the morning dew. Yeah. How was your... What does the morning look like for you, actually? It depends on the day. Usually trades off between... I try Tuesday and Thursdays to go to the gym in the morning. So, get up, go to the gym, workout, listen to either music or sermons or things like that. Sermons while you workout? Oh yeah. Bro. Oh yeah. I don't know. It's good.

And typically on the way home, I'm just, you know, listening to music or praying or something like that. It's usually like a 10 or 15 minute drive. What time do your kids get up? Are they early morning kids? It fluctuates. They're typically starting to move like 630. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Get your room. Get back in your room. No, I'm just joking. The one, the middle child, Anna, she seems to be an early riser right now. Do they come in and crawl in bed with you in the morning when they wake up? Oh yeah.

Oh, I miss those days. Oh, yeah. I didn't have many of those days because I wasn't usually home in the morning when I worked night shift. But Adeline doesn't like to crawl in bed with us because she likes her space, but she likes to be in the presence of us. So she lays on the floor next to the bed with a blanket. So cute. And then Anna's in the middle of us just crawling around, jumping and Aliki is the same thing. And it's like the season of life that you're in is just a slowdown. Aren't they all that way, though? Just slow down and enjoy the season. I had that.

For the longest time, I was like very frustrated when they came in our room or when something happened. Like if I woke up in the middle of the night and had to go tend to the children, I'd get really upset. I got really frustrated for many, many times and Rachel could attest to that. And I just remember a couple months ago, I woke up in the middle of the night and all my girls were in my room sleeping. And it was the first time like I wasn't upset about it. And I just like, it was quiet, everything was peaceful and all I heard was their.

Breathing. And I was like, you know what? Everybody's good. They're safe. Everybody's safe. They're just hanging out in the room and they enjoy being around us. What more can I ask for? So at that point, it was like a sort of a turning point for me going, yeah, I'm fine. I'm good. It's crazy how one day it'll be the last time you hold your daughter. One day it'll be the last night she sleeps in your room. One day, I wouldn't say this necessarily because...

I still cuddle with my daughters. They're teenagers. Like, you know, they still need that. Yeah. At that age. But when they're little like that, you just don't get to hold them like that anymore. And, oh man, that day is creeping up on you. Are you a, are you a crier? I told them, no, not too much. Not too much. There is. I mean, things will get me all teared up and stuff, especially a bluey episode. Watching blue. That's hilarious.

Yeah, that last episode that came out, I was just like, wow, this is hitting the spot. I wonder what the next thing is for like, so like, you know, it's the last time that you'll hold your daughter or your son. It's the last time that you'll give them a bottle. It's the last time they'll sleep in your bed with you. Like, what is it as they become teenagers? What is it as they become? Because the older that your kids get, the less time you spend with them. Like you have the most time with your kids right now.

I have the most time I will ever have with my kids right now while they're in my home. But the day is coming quickly where they're gonna go and start flying, flapping their wings and figuring out their purpose in the world and what God created them for. And they'll just come and check in once in a while. Yep. And that time, what did I see the other day? You spend more time with your kids in the first 18 years than you do the rest of their life. I think that was the stat that I saw. And...

Isn't that what you want though? Like you want your kids out in the world doing what they were created to do, like fulfilling their purpose and you want them to be built up and confident and able to go and do that. Yeah. But I definitely selfishly want them to be close. Still want to be close. Yeah. I'm not like, Oh, you turn 18, you're getting out the door, kick you out. I was like, no, well I'll give you time. I'm preparing. I can feel God preparing my heart. It's interesting how he prepares you. Um,

for the season that you're in or the season you're coming into. I've noticed that this year that he always prepares you before he sends you. Yeah, I can just feel that, hey, your kids are getting older and seasons are changing now. Seasons for me are changing now. And it's exciting. It's also a little bit nerve wracking. It's like the emotions are gonna come.

and all of that stuff, but inevitably it always leads to more depth with Christ and more fulfillment of what you were created to do. So, yeah. Thinking about those, like there's always that last time of like thinking about like my childhood friends and stuff I did hanging out in the woods with and stuff. We would always like leave the house and just stayed hours in the woods. And to think like, oh, there was one time that that was the last time. And you can't even remember it. I drove by my buddy's parents' house over in North Anvil.

And he had, we called it the shack. It was literally like a eight by eight plywood structure with bunk beds in it. And we would hang out there all the time. And yeah, you're right. One time, one day it was just the last time that you guys had a camp out at the shack acting like a bunch of knuckleheads having fun. And then, but was it worth it? Absolutely. Absolutely. Wouldn't trade any of it for the world.

No, and there are times where it's the last time for something that's a good thing. And I guess that's a great segue into we're going to talk about your testimony. And I have never heard your story. I don't, I've picked up little pieces just from listening you and observing you, but I haven't ever really heard it. So I'm excited for this and, uh, I'm going to try my best to interview you. Like you interviewed me, you did so great. That was a great way to share testimony. I think so. I like that.

I think, I mean, in the sense of like, just when questions pop up in your head, like, wait a second, like, you're saying this, but what about right before that? It's fun. It's how you're supposed to do it in real life. If you're having a conversation, like, oh, well, was God in that? Oh, that was God in that part of your story. Like some people don't see it. And when you're interviewing, quote unquote, interviewing, having a conversation with people, like the goal is to help pull, here's Jesus, here's the thumb print of God in your life. Like, do you see it?

Do you see it there? He's here right now too. So let's, I'm going to follow this outline that you had a little bit, keep it organic. I'm usually not a note follower. So, um, go for it. Oh, one other thing I wanted to say before we do this was last night, I spent a couple of hours, um, after you guys had left and opened up my journals and just started reading through my journals from 2022 and 2023 and 2024.

we were talking about the memorial stones on shaking ground and Man if you're a journal person anybody who's listening to this Go back and read through your journals and write down on a piece of paper where God answered prayer Yeah, where he moved and just pay attention to if you're really raw in your journaling like if you put your whole heart out there

You can really see how God is preparing you before he moves you into the next season. And it get, those memorial stones that they talk about, that's a real, real thing. So I hope you're going to share about any of those in your story. I don't know if you have any of those or what your journey has been like with that, but we'll see where we get. Let's just start with what's your real name? Christian James Shaw.

Christian James. Okay. I didn't know the James part. Yeah. Um, yeah, just go ahead. Give a little background to you. Are you from this area? Yeah. So I was, uh, born and raised right outside of Raleigh, North Carolina. I was born in Charlotte. Okay. Um, I guess I spent some time down at Smithfield, North Carolina a little bit before my memory, but, uh, most of my time was spent right outside of Raleigh, uh, in Youngsville and Wake Forest, North Carolina. So I spent 16.

years of my life down there. I know you were from North Carolina. Yeah. I'm sure you've mentioned it. Yeah. So what's the, uh, what brought you to Pennsylvania? That would be a big part of the story, but we'll definitely get there. Um, there's all good things, but for me, like my, my family was always, always going to church. Very similar to what we were talking about with yours. My, my parents were not in ministry per se. Um, but we were always going to church and I was homeschooled.

All my life, church was a place for me to hang out with friends. Yeah. You know, do my thing. I made a lot of friends there and we went to a big church growing up. We probably had over a thousand people in our church. Baptist? Yeah, Southern Baptist. Great youth group, great youth program. That's where I made all my friends. Yeah. So I didn't have a drug problem where I was just, my parents are dragging me to church. I wanted to go. Yeah. Cause I got to hang out with my friends and I got to have fun conversations, do fun things. It was great. Loved it. It was probably...

around the second grade when I initially accepted Christ. Wow, young. Young. That's awesome. So my church put on these things called Upward Basketball. And it was like a basketball program at church. And we had, like it felt like hundreds of kids doing this thing. If I'm looking back, it was probably more like 70, 80, but it might've been. I love you, but nothing about you says basketball player. No, definitely not anymore. I would say probably around the third, fourth grade. I did.

Transition to football. I say football player like Yeah But it was around that time where like things were starting to click in my head some of the stuff pastors were preaching on Sunday morning Mm -hmm And then some of the things we were talking about an upward basketball because after every practice and game you'd have a little devotion Yeah, and it just clicked and it was more of a fear based thing like I don't want to go to hell Right because I was hearing pastor talking about how it happens when you're young. Oh, you just get scared into it and then just something clicked on upward basketball the one day and it's like

Nope, I don't want that. Jesus come. Jesus. So that was my first, like, and I don't remember it clearly, it was just like, here's my, like, God, I want you, I want you to save me from this. That was my first proclamation of faith. Long road after that though, of like, where do I start actually walking it out? Long road, long road. Yeah. So you're under 10. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I've probably been around like seven or eight.

North Carolina under 10 get scared of hell. Let's say, all right, God, however you get us, get us. Um, although that still happens today where with adults or some people use fear tactics to try and get people like instead of love, you know, in the heart of Jesus, do you have brothers? Yeah, I have a one brother and I have four sisters. Are they big guys to lift? He's taller than me. Geez. He's a probably inch and a half, two inches taller than me, but he's a, he's a little, he's strong.

Oh, little guy. I call him Scrawny. Yeah. He's a good dude, but I can still beat him up. And do they still live down south? No. So my younger brother, my one brother, he lives in Harisburg. My oldest sister lives in Amsterdam. She's an artiste. She's very...

Artistic person who's gonna draw us up something for the podcast probably good probably good. No, she's awesome She's she's worked her whole life I wanted to be an artist and she's worked her way up to the point of doing like drawing for Netflix and things like that and good for her It's awesome. So she's got a cool story there and she lives in Amsterdam my older sister She lives out in Colorado. She's a nurse out there and then my younger sister is down in Charlotte actually Yeah, and then my younger brother youngest

younger brother and youngest sister is in Harrisburg. So how many siblings do you have? Five? Yeah. Dang. All from the same, all from the same parents. That's awesome. Good. And you all get along like better now than we used to. Yeah. Do you guys try and do like a every couple of years, everyone try and get together or is it just kind of like, Hey, I'm coming home from Amsterdam swing by and say hello. Yeah. I mean they, my oldest sister tries to come out. She's got a lot of friends and stuff out here. So.

They came out two years ago for Christmas. Yeah. And it's easier now to keep up with people through. We have so many different. We have group chats and stuff that we're all connected in. Oh, bro. We should have a whole podcast on group chats. Careful. Careful. Careful. The group chats. So you're young. Let's talk about the teenage years. So you grew up in the church, your buddies, your friends are in the church, which doesn't mean that.

It's just like, oh, they're safe and they're going to have Jesus all the time. Like there's just as much junk there. Oh, for sure. Um, and I would say, I mean, we did a pretty good job and they did a good job of like trying to protect us from some things. You definitely knew there was stuff happening. Yeah. Um, in my friend's circle, it seemed to be a little less dramatic. We just wanted to hang out and just isn't it interesting how you can get so.

Same for me, I grew up with a group of guys that we just weren't into drugs and alcohol and being crazy and sleeping around. We just were like, let's go cut firewood and sell it. Let's go build something. Let's go play football. Yeah, let's go run in the woods. Let's go just spend all day out there. Yeah, and it's like, what a blessing. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, especially when there's these smaller young groups or smaller friend groups in there that were just like, some of the girls be like running away from home. Yeah. And, uh,

Just these things at an age where you're just like, then you just think it's like, all right, that's kind of normal looking back. It's like, you guys were young to having those thoughts and doing those things. Like what's going on? How bad is it when someone that it breaks your heart when you really think about it? Like I think about my daughters when it's like, yeah, I remember, you know, there's you'll see it with your girls too. They'll pack their little suitcase. I'm leaving the house. It's like, I did it two days ago. Dude, you got to record it next.

I was, I was making dinner and out literally outside the vent window. Adeline's I'm running away. Cause I'm bored. So Rachel calls me and she's like, Hey, just, uh, keep your eye on Adeline while you're cooking. Please just look out the window and make sure she's in the backyard. She just said she's going to run away. I'm like, Oh, great. What is that? Do you think that is like, like, what is that? Because how old is she? Five.

Is it the enemy? Is it just the world? Is it? I think all kids do that. Yeah. I think it's just a manipulation tactic. Let me try to get what I want. I'll threaten it. Yeah. Just playing games with dad. She does like to use like, well, you don't do this. I'm not doing that. And having to navigate that sometimes it's like, no, I'm in charge. Like it doesn't take long for the human to begin to figure out the game and the boundaries. And you know,

if you don't have any boundaries, like at some point you're gonna have to put some boundaries in. And that's a whole nother topic, because you just did a whole Genesis study. I'm sure you could go on about boundaries and how God's a God of boundaries. So teenage years. Yeah, I mean, we'll drop back before that a little bit. So probably around the age of 13, between 10 and 13, right? That was a big time in my life, just things happening, just moving and...

let's see 13 I would have been, been 2008. So 2008 my dad had his own business, did a whole bunch of construction. He had a whole bunch of equipment doing residential stuff right in the middle of the housing crash in 2008. And that was a tough time for my family because he was not quite like established enough to withstand it. So made some business decisions, things like that. The,

Really once the housing stopped like overnight, man, there was no more money coming in. And so the business ended up just falling apart. Did you see, so you're 10 to 13. Is this kind of like the first hit on your heart? Yeah. Um, where's the question? Okay. Like, cause it's like talking with dad and stuff like this was a fun time for me to, I'm learning how to run equipment. I'm driving trucks at 13 in the backyard, you know, doing those kinds of things.

I'm digging holes in the backyard to bury trees. Yeah. Just having a great time working on trucks, cutting logs. Dad's talking about, well, once you turn 16 and get your license, we'll just cut trees down and you'll have your log business and just sell logs. And I'm like, such an exciting time. And then you start seeing companies come take equipment. Yeah. Just like, wait, what's going on? Yeah. And you're just like registering like, wait, I don't understand why everything's being taken away. My dreams, my first, your first time of putting your heart out there. Yeah.

and laying it out there just being like, man, I'm excited for the next thing God has for me. And immediately Satan's like, opportunity here. Not that Satan took your dad's business, I'm not saying that. It's just that happens. It's just a life scenario and he's gonna use it. Life scenario and Satan's like, oh, I'm gonna come after you CJ. See, you don't dream. Don't have any goals. Don't have any desire for more of the Lord.

because it never works out and we end up getting to our 20s, 30s and 40s, that will always be tested. How old are you, 28? It'll be tested in your 30s, in your 40s. I'm not in my 40s, but I'm sure it will be tested.

What did that do to you for the next many years as far as like, did it make you not try to engage into things because you were afraid of losing something or what did that do to your heart? It made me more reserved on things, more analytical. But God graciously didn't let it like stone me up, turn me into a stone. I think I could trace back some other things with my sisters.

around that time that the enemy was really able to just harden their hearts over some issues. Cause from that point on, you know, my dad was now having to travel for work. He had to leave the house and go find work because North Carolina was like done with construction. And there's the enemy abandonment. Right. So from that point on where he's just trying to provide and do what he needs to, to give us a life, we could easily take that and go, dad doesn't love us. He's not here. He's not supporting us. Meanwhile, just a couple of years ago, he's running our soccer teams and playing or running our basketball teams and doing what he can.

in between work. So God was gracious enough for me to go and say like, he put different people in my lives to help pour into me in those times. He allowed me to notice like, right, dad's providing for me. Even though he's not here and I can't just talk to him. He's here every weekend or every other weekend. He's always coming back and he's providing. And I was able to just take that and go, right, he loves me because if he didn't love me, he wouldn't be doing this. He'd be just providing for himself.

And it was a realization for me to go, okay, there's more going on than just me. Sorry, dude. I am like right now just thinking about my kids because is there things right now with my kids that the enemy is trying to get them to like, don't dream, don't hope, don't dream. And I need to spend time explaining to them how life works. Sometimes things don't work out the way you planned or you need to pivot and you need to make.

Maneuvers and you need to move you need to follow the Lord. Okay now we need to spend more time with the Lord I'm thinking about that as you're sharing that I'm like my kids are at that age. Yeah, and I Wonder if those thoughts are creeping in for them Because it can take you down a road of a lot of different seeds that get planted So the abandonment wound gets the man abandonment seed just gets planted. Yeah, it might not have hit you Yeah, but it gets planted right and now the enemy is gonna try and get that thing to grow later on. Yeah

The dream, loss of dreams, hope gets attacked right there. The feeling of the fatherlessness, a orphan, the enemy tries to get you to feel like an orphan. There's so much right there that you just said that the enemy can just have a heyday with. But it carries on into our adult years if you don't address it. And if you don't go back, the fact that you're even sharing that is huge. That's a leaning hitch then just to go, that's why, that's why. I'm accepting it, it's good.

That's how it is, but it's not. And then in the midst of that year, around 2007, 2008, right in the midst of that, the big hit for me was the one day I was sitting in church. And the pastor always called people out on being addicted to porn and having pornography in their home or being lustful and those kinds of things. And I didn't know what that was. So the one day I got home from church, everybody's hanging out and I'm just sneaked off into the office and what is porn?

That's what I Googled, looked up and I was around 2007, 2008 and it got me, got me good. And from that point on, it was just this thing where like, as soon as I searched it up, I knew it was wrong, knew it was bad. And I quickly tried to hide it, learn how to delete history, learn how to do those things real quickly. But I was like, I was in it. It got me. And yeah, so from that point on, it was something that I struggled with for a long time.

And you're 13. Yeah, right around 12, 13. Yeah. Right at that age where, um, you know, I noticed this with my son, he's 13 and that innocence starts the assault on his heart and his innocence start is starting. And as a dad, I'm just kind of discerning. Where's he at? Um, checking his phone regularly, checking.

in on him regularly, listening to him, you know, what's he doing when he's playing his video games? What kind of video games is he playing? Things like that. Right. And those things aren't out of like, they're not out of distrust. No. They're not out of like, I don't trust my son or I want to, you know, be corrective or anything like that. It's because I don't trust the world. I don't trust the enemy. It's like, I know what's out there. Yeah. That's something like my, my daughters are not there to that point yet, but they're there in other ways. Right. You know, even YouTube is a dangerous place for a toddler.

Yeah. For a young kid. Well, um, the, uh, that five years old, like they start testing things that we were talking about, um, with the, I'm, I'm running away, you know, it's like you're five. Quit that. Don't forget your bottle. Oh yeah. Right. Um, but yeah, from that point on, I mean, I was, I still go to church. I still involved in my youth group. I loved church. I loved that community. I love what was going on and I was involved. I was in it.

But then on the backside, I was still now this addict that no matter what I did, I couldn't get away from it. Um, so I, I probably around that age of like 15, 16, I started like talking to some people cause I had a lot of good guys in my life that poured into me and they were not shy away from saying like, watch out for this thing. And there was, I could think of like at least two occasions where I had mentioned like, yeah, I struggle with that. And they would hold start trying to hold you accountable.

But that's all it was, was accountability. There wasn't like, invite the Holy Spirit into get rid of this thing. Like, you know what I mean? No, yeah. No, you can't do this on your own. Right. And I can't fix it for you. Right. Here's the Holy Spirit. Right. That's going to, he's the one who restores, reveals, brings the conviction. And so like I was able to, you know, bull crap my way out of those situations where it was nice for a couple of weeks. Like, all right, yeah, I've been good for this week. I've been good for two weeks. And then as soon as it,

might've slipped into it again. I didn't want to tell him. Yeah. So he's been trying to help me out. So yeah, I'm good. And everything's good. Everything's fine. And meanwhile, I'm back in it. Yeah. And so that went on for a period of time. And in that time, we started transitioning from North Carolina to Pennsylvania. Right? So our church planted a church in Harrisburg, a couple of my friends and families that I loved and were close with. Uh, they went to pastor this church and they were probably up there for about a year until my dad got a job up in.

Mansfield, Pennsylvania and working in the oil fields. And because we were friends with these people, we said, let's, uh, let's move up to Harrisburg. Let's plant there. Let's help out in this church plant. And dad, you, since you've been traveling for work all this time anyways, right. Just you come on the weekends, you will be a lot closer than what you're doing now, but you go to work during the week, come home on the weekends and we'll just help with this church plan. So I was leading worship. I was helping with Sunday schools. I was helping with just throughout the week, little, we, we didn't have a name for it, but.

essentially life groups in that sense. And yes, we're doing that. And in the meantime, as all that was going on, I was still struggling with the same stuff. And you always have that like mentality, like I'm trying to do these things. I'm trying to lean into God and do that stuff. But the enemy's back there telling me, don't, don't let them know what's really going on. Don't get help. Yeah. Don't let them know who you really are. Because he knows if you get help, you're going to get free. Don't get help. And is your dad alive yet? Yeah. Yeah. And.

You move up here, the whole family moves up here? Everybody except my two older sisters. Okay, so you're not the oldest. They're already out. Okay, gotcha.

So you're what 16 when you move up here? Yeah. And then church plant, you're still struggling with stuff, but you're involved in the church. God graciously has held onto me the whole time. I haven't turned my back, but I've definitely not been walking in the way I should. Yeah. But yeah, so in that time, you know, I go to high school playing football, doing those things, graduate at 17, go work at oil fields for a little while. It's like deja vu. Yeah, right.

And then I go to college, right? And again, like I'm in church, I'm in these things, I'm helping out. My heart's there, but my flesh is still battling with this thing. And it's something like it's been huge in my life. Like it's something I was shameful of. I didn't want anybody to know though. And so as we go through that, I mean, I met my wife at Milledgeville. I met her, I guess I saw her in the second half of my freshman year.

I didn't have the guts enough to say anything until summertime. And I was, again, I was working up in the oil fields in the summer and I started messaging her and stuff and just talking and we went on a couple of dates and stuff. But actually, ironically, at the same time, um, in that summer, I was up in the middle of Montrose, Pennsylvania, in the middle of nowhere doing pipeline restorations. And I get a phone call from my mom and she's like, Hey, don't bother coming home this weekend. We're not having church. Cause at this point I'm still like,

coming home every weekend, helping lead worship, doing all those things. It's because we're not having church. It's done. It's closed down. Oh, oh, it's like, what happened? I don't understand. And I'm not going to get into the details of it all, but there were some issues going on with some of the leadership there and they dissolved it overnight. So that was a big hit. Dang. Yeah. No explanation to the congregation or nothing? Not initially. It was just a, Hey guys, don't come to church.

from what I got out of it. There might have been some explanation to other people, but what I heard and what I seen was, don't come to church Sunday. Dang, that's a hit, man. Oh yeah. It's something like we moved to Harrisburg to help and it was a big part of our lives. So that was a big hit. And actually looking back, like my younger sister, like she took a big hit from that and spiraled out of control from that point on. Yeah. The ministry hurts are a real thing, man. How old were you when that happened? 18.

So young, but old enough also to know. So that happened. I mean, we're still working up north, but I'm going back to school, playing football, part of churches and ministries there, and hanging out with my wife and stuff. And still, you'd think I'd be honest about that to some people. People are close to what was going on in my life, but it turned into more of a situation where I was like,

trying to show that I'm a good man because I've dealt with it in the past and I don't deal with it anymore. So now I'm starting to lie. Like, yeah, I dealt with that in the past or trying to like have empathy towards people who are having this situation. Like, I know what you're going through. I've been there. Meanwhile, I'm still there. Right. Right. And now I'm like this, just this two -faced liar of like, yeah, I'm there on Sunday mornings helping lead worship and I'm involved as best as I can. And then in the background, I'm just the sinner. Which yeah, we all are.

We're all sinners, but the enemy man was just putting that shame like, you are a piece of crap. You are a piece of crap. And who do you think you are? Right. Yeah. And so, you know, that went on for many, many years, just that. My wife and I, we had a church we were going to called Crossway in Millersville. That was a big point in my life of reflection. We tried to become members there because this is a church my wife got baptized at.

after she sort of came out, like made the statement of like, she's not a Catholic anymore. She was raised in Catholicism and then just experienced God's grace in a way that she never experienced before. And just this love and this truth of who Jesus was. And she wanted more of that. So I was able to witness some of that and be a part of that. And it was cool. Is this after you guys are married or? This is before. Before you're married. She was in college. And so when that happened, she decided she wanted to get baptized because she had finally realized, because she was baptized as an infant.

And she wanted to really just dig into that. And it was great. Crossway was the place we did it. She got baptized there. And then we were like, well, we want to come members here because we got in a life group of like a bunch of older people. We were like intentional of like, we're going to get married soon. We want to do that. I didn't know. I did propose to her at this point. We were engaged. But the wedding was like a year and a half. Yeah. Year and a half off. And we were like, well, we're getting married. We want to be involved with older people.

Give us an example. Yeah. And so we were intentional about that and it was great. Had these older people just in our life where we had people in their seventies and fifties and forties and just people to like lean in and just ask questions. We loved it. So we wanted to become members and we remember going to a membership class there. And one of the questions that was coming up, cause he was just going through his book, checking off membership questions that he was required to ask. And then we'd lean on him and lean into him a little more. And the one he came up to was, are you guys staying moral?

So we asked like, well. Define moral. What do you mean moral? He's like, well, you both are engaged and you're going to college. Like, where do you live? So well, we live together. So are you sleeping together? Yeah. Yeah. And like we're being like weirdly honest. Yeah. It's like, I can't lie to a preacher. And he, right in front of him, he closes her book and he says, well, like at this point, like where we're at, like you guys are not in line with the way scripture has.

called us to live, we can't accept you as members right now. And we talked a little bit more about it, but it made me like, for a second I was like, what do you mean? What the heck? Man, I gotta like, I don't know how to take that. And this isn't what I've said before the last time we talked about this. Because on one hand, like he's called to preach and lead a flock. And bring the word.

to the people, here's how you align your life with the word. But on the flip side of that, you got somebody who is living in, we'll say living in sin.

Asking to be a member of the body of Christ To get it right. Well, that's the thing I think we we can get into semantics and talk about what the body of Christ is Yeah, because the body of Christ is those who believe or I guess in the in this their church in their church They're saying hey You're being oh they weren't upset that we were open but they weren't shunning us or like telling you you sinners you horrible people They're saying we need to correct this

before we're just gonna let you in. Because it would be the same thing if there was a member in their church going through that, they would bring it up to them. And the way Timothy describes it, it's, hey, we see this, or I think Paul wrote it to Timothy, said like, we see this in your life, one person call it out if he doesn't listen, listen two or three, if he doesn't listen, let the elders. And if he doesn't listen, get him out. So in that essence, they were just trying to clear that in before you let them in. And some people take that one way, some people take the other. Graciously, God let me take it as a point of reflection. There you go.

Going that's what I was trying to get to. How did you take that? Because some people will be like, well, I finally am open and truthful and I get shut down. Exactly. So this pastor handled it beautifully. Super gracious about it. Like he did not convict us at all. He just said, well, like, look, here's the standard that we call people into. You're not there right now. How can we, how can we partner with you to get you there? That's beautiful. And so our big thing at that point was.

we're gonna move up the wedding. Because this is a struggle that's not easy to break. But as Paul says, if you're burning with passion, get married. He makes it super simple. We're getting married tomorrow. Get married. So that's what we did. I mean, the wedding moved up from a year and a half to like six months. So we dated for I think a year and a half before we got married. Is she from this area? Yeah, she's from Anvil. From Anvil? Did she go to Anvil, Cleveland? I didn't know that. What year did she graduate?

2013? 2013, I was not expecting that. Goodness gracious. So yeah, so that happened. I mean, that was a really big point in my life of just like, wait a second, like, where am I right now? What am I doing? Because you're in college. Yeah. You're like we had said before, just like you're dipping your toes in the water of the world and going like, what is this thing? And some things that were bad. And Crossway gave you a safe place to... They did. But they were honest. Yeah.

And it was not like, again, I love the depiction in first John where it talks about Jesus is full of grace and full of truth. It's not just going, oh, it's okay, buddy, everybody does it. It's like, no, you're in sin right now, but we love you. And we want to see what's best for you. We want to help you. And so that was a point where, yeah, we corrected it. We moved it forward. As soon as we let him know, I was like, look, we're doing this thing to move it forward and we're abstaining as best we can from here on. He said, okay, we'll take him in. That's all he wanted was to see.

we're desiring for what God wants for our life. We're headed in that direction. Right. And, uh, oh, I'm, there was times where I thought back on it. I was like, God, was that right for the way they did that? And I'm a hundred percent certain like what they did was a hundred percent right. Yeah. From it got you to a place of conviction from the Holy spirit. Yeah. A safe place where you can work this out and go on the journey in a safe environment. And then he was the worship leader. He wasn't the head pastor. He's the

Doug Plank, a worship leader at Crossway Church, I mean, he's the man. That's awesome. Just coming out in faith, being bold and being trustworthy to the word and trusting God with the situation. Yeah. He said what he needed to say and it convicted us in a good way. That's awesome. It started us on a path of change. So how did you guys end up here in Anvil then? Yeah, so, I mean, we stayed in college. Oh, because she's from Anvil. Yeah, so, I mean, we were in college for a couple more years. I graduated before Rachel. I got my associates.

so I could start working because I was tired of school. But yeah, I got my associates graduated early. We moved literally the same day I graduated college. I moved from Millersville to Columbia and we were in Columbia for a year because that was the cheapest place I could find a place to rent. It's like 600 square foot apartment for 600 bucks a month. You couldn't. Dollar square foot baby can't beat it. Couldn't beat it. Meanwhile, there's shootings in your front porch. Right. Now Columbia was nice.

But opportunity to be the hands and feet of Jesus right there. Right. Well, I wish I was. Rachel was doing her student teaching and things like that because that's what she went to school for. We had a year of that. I was working, she was student teaching and we were just living in Columbia. And at that point you're just getting in the mundane steps of life. Right. And it's just like, I'm going to work, doing my thing. At that point, I wasn't on a college campus anymore with like where they had ministries involved. I was still going to cross way. Right. But work was starting to take up time. Yeah.

So I'm like my main goal in life now is to provide to pay the bills, to give us food, to give us what we need. And then you're married at this point. Yeah, we're married. Um, meanwhile, still struggling with the same thing. It's still in the background, just haunting me. Don't let anybody find out. Don't let anybody find out. Tormenting. Yeah. Constant. And so we, we share this with anybody at crossway that part of your story. No, no. Do you look back now and wonder like,

what if I would have? You know, they gave you an open door for, they... Yeah, I don't know. I'm just thinking in my story, like there's times where I'm like, I wonder if I would have shared things earlier with the right people. Did I miss it? Or where the season we're in now, are there people where it's like, okay, there's, you're always going through something and God's bringing people to help you through it. Go ahead, continue. Yeah, I mean, could it have been done earlier? Maybe, but...

what was done was definitely done for a purpose as well. And through those little hints of just grace and truth, you know, you can look back and go, all right, God's been showing me that He's not just going to condemn me and forget me. I didn't necessarily mean like it could have been done sooner. I was thinking more like, when you look back in your story of this part of your story, can you see where God was like, oh, maybe He was trying to get me then. And I just didn't catch it. But now I see Him. Oh, for sure. I mean, yeah. And how today is He trying to get you today. And it's like,

Yeah. I think God wants us to get as close to him as quickly as possible. But in our selfish desires and our pride and in our pulls your way. Yeah, we just we want to do our thing. Yeah. So yeah, we spent a year in Columbia and then moved to Anvil. We got a house out here and it just life. Yeah. I started having kids started again. Got three little ones, three little ones, five, four, two. And he just turns into.

Life just happens. Yeah, right and you're just trying to provide trying to get through the day changing diapers getting food for people and just trying to live and meanwhile trying to do some things for yourself to to have fun and God becomes a thing that you just When I have time, yeah, I'll go to church. Mm -hmm. And it just that's what was happening It's a slow fade. It is and it's not like I ever lost sight or rejected or didn't want God. It just wasn't my focus Yeah, it wasn't something that I had like priority one in my life. Mm -hmm So we were going to the church we go to now

And it was, again, we had kids, so it was, well, my kid needs a nap, so we're not going to church today. Need to do this, so we're not going to church today. I need a nap, so we're not going. No, we always use the kids as an excuse. Yeah. And I'm not saying that every parent does at some point. It's hard, like having kids and trying to navigate that. It's hard. Heck yeah. But again, church, God, family, my church family was not my priority at all. It was just to do it on Sunday.

So meanwhile, you know, I'm working, I'm working, you know, sometimes an hour and a half, two hours from home, doing all this stuff. And my focus is just provide, just provide, just provide. And meanwhile, my marriage is suffering. Leaving the wife at home, taking care of all the kids. I'm working for 10 to 12 hours a day, then going to the gym, then going home. It's all me. It's just like, I'm all I am is focused on me. Yeah. What can I do? What can I do? Her job is the house. I'm providing, I'm getting my work. Yeah. And it's just, everything's deteriorating. Just falling apart.

That's when we did some marriage counseling because there was just a lot of frustrations and stuff. And looking back, it was, it was my addiction. What I was always lingering in the background. Yeah. That was one of the big things, the root of it. Yeah. As why I was the way I was. And, uh, we did that for four or five years for four years in the end. Counseling. No, just, just this life living. Yeah. Just living. Just.

Existing together. It'd be four or five years somewhere in there. That's a long five years when you're just, this thing is lingering and you know what it is and you can't break it. And then you start getting desperate. So you either turn to something else, you just literally gloss over it and pretend it's not there, which people do that all the time. Oh, it's not there. I don't know what you're talking about. Or you start turning to Jesus.

and you start looking for that opportunity, that window of opportunity that is like, I'm willing to try anything now as long as it aligns with the word. Let's be clear about that. Because there are a lot of things out there that will profess to get you free, but it's not the Holy Spirit. So yeah, I mean, we did that for four to five years of just constant battling. I mean, God was not our focus at all. Usually most of our conversations started or ended in arguments.

So what snapped were finally like, you have this five years where now, you know, your soul knows what snapped or what did God use to trigger a freedom direction? I got caught. Caught looking at porn. Yeah, I got caught. And what was that like? It was my biggest fear. It was absolutely my biggest fear because as what we had talked about before was like, I've seen people get caught.

And I had that fear of like, I don't want people to find out who I really am. I want to put on this facade, pretend like my family's in order, go to church, do the thing and just be good. Right. And, uh, fig leaf. Yeah. Right. So, and I don't remember if we talked about it or not, but like when I seen my mom's friend go through what she went through, her pastor husband of a different church. So he got caught. Yeah. And she got a divorce over it.

and just imploded everything. Yeah, everything. So that fear of like, I'm about to lose. I don't want to lose everything. I don't want to lose my family. I don't want to lose my wife. I don't want to lose where we're at right now. And it all came to a head in one night. Isn't it crazy how fear cannot snap you out of something? Yeah. Like think about that. Like you would think. I was afraid the entire time. In a world view, I'm so afraid of getting caught and losing everything that I'm not going to do anything. I'm not going to do it anymore. But the devil doesn't care.

You not doing it anymore. He wants you to be afraid So you would think fear would would be the thing that could snap you into freedom. There's no freedom in fear No, hold on a second. Let me work this out Am I good to go here for a couple seconds? Because I never really put this together like this So you're so fearful of a thing that happened in your life and losing your marriage your children your home Like everything will implode if if I get caught doing this. Yeah, meanwhile, I've been doing it for 13 years 13 years and you would think

in a fleshly, worldly thinking position that that fear would drive you to not do it. Yeah, I put two together, it's enough consequence I'm stopping. But that's not how fear works. No. That's not how it works either. There's no freedom in fear. There's only freedom in Christ Jesus. In truth. Through the sun sets free, that was free indeed. John 8 .32, where the spirit of freedom is. Oh wait, what's John 8 .32? I should know this off the top of my head. I don't know. The truth will set you free.

And just you get caught in that like fear is real now. Like it's real. It's here. What was that like? And how did Rachel hand handle it? Like what did your greatest fear come to life? Yeah. So I was terrified because she caught me in the middle of it. Yeah. And I was like shaking. I was terrified of what's about to happen. And she looked at me.

And she goes, and I'm like, like sitting there, like I couldn't even look at her because I'm just so sure shame. Yeah. So much shame and stuff. And I'm like, well, here it is. She, she find out, she found out. And she goes, you need to take this up with God. And it broke me to the point. Like I was, I was like devastated in the sense that I let my wife down, devastated in the sense of like, this is who I am. And this is who they found me out. She found me out. But when she said that,

I was like, whoa. She could have handled that in way other ways, could have blown up, could have walked out, could have done whatever. If there's lust in our hearts, we've already committed adultery, she could have been like, I'm done, I'm out of here. You have been an adulterer to our marriage, I'm leaving. And she didn't. She said, you need to take this up with God. So that started a four to five month journey of...

What can I do to stop this thing? I owe it to my wife. So did that encourage you then, cause fear wasn't gonna lead you out of this. Fear kept you in it. Right. There's no freedom in fear. She brings in grace. Yeah. And the truth. Yeah. You gotta take this one up with the Lord, he's gotta set you free. 100%. So did that encourage you then to... I don't know if she fully knew exactly what she was saying at that point, but she was 100 % dead on. Don't you love it when your wife talks to you without her flesh and the Holy Spirit speaks to her? Yeah.

Oh, I received that honey. Thank you. Uh, yeah. And it was this point of like, all right, I can, I can turn at this point and blow up and make it her fault. Right. I can try to twist it that way or I can, you're right. We're not going down that road, but yeah, that happens. I've never thought of that. I could take that opportunity and be like, all right, she, she, uh, was too gracious here. Now I'm going to trample on her. I could do that. Or God has graciously allowed me to go.

You're right. I'm wrong. I shouldn't be here. So you manned up. Yeah. Instead of blaming her, which you could have done. This didn't happen overnight, right? Could have made it even bigger lie. Yeah. It was super awkward for a couple of days, a couple of weeks. Eating breakfast in the morning, just kind of like, what's up? Are we going to talk about what happened last night? I don't mean to laugh. I'm sorry. No, no, you're good. It's fine. But.

that started a journey for weeks and months of me trying to go like, all right, I owe this to my family to quit this thing. Amen. And that's what I tried to do. And I would go for a couple of weeks at a time and be good. And then I'd fall back into it. I go for a couple of days and I'd fall back into it. And like, I started realizing like, I can't stop this thing. I can't stop it. I'm trying everything in my own power to stop it. And I can't do it. Right. And, uh, that was after a couple of months, my mom and my, my wife, um, started,

coming across this guy named Jake Kale and he's out of Lancaster as Jake Kale Ministries. It's really good, a really good ministry, really good dude. And I'm hoping we get to have him on at some point. But they started talking about this thing called deliverance and which is if you get into the New Testament and read, you realize it's a very common topic in the New Testament and it's something we don't talk about that often. It's literally what we're commanded to go do. Right. So we, they started like digging into this thing more and I'm just, you know, doing my thing, just trying to survive at this point. And, uh,

Um, so I was very, just sort of standoffish, like let them go, let them do the thing. And then meanwhile, like I'm starting to see fruit in my mom and my wife's lives of going like my mom, who seemed to always be a very, uh, a critical person of situations like softening up and my wife who was always a very anxious person, not being anxious anymore. And she still had like spells and situations there, but she was, I could see, like literally see in the day to day of like, she's changing. Um,

So I was like, at one point I was finally like, well, what I see in them, like I want, I want that. That's so profound because so many people will judge a ministry, a person, this podcast. I know there's people that listen to this podcast that are just looking for ammo. Like I know you're out there. I know you're listening this to try and catch us to teach me something. Um, but people can't argue with fruit. Yeah. Go bear fruit. John 15, go study John 15.

Go bear fruit because fruit is what people see and they will.

Judge the way you did it. They will judge the person that you're talking to they will judge everything Well, you didn't get it the way that I got it Um, but man, I see that fruit. I see somebody's life has changed It should draw your attention to that person and start listening for what are they doing differently because I actually see a positive change in their life So that's pretty profound that you Didn't immediately go this deliverance stuff. This is nope

and I'm not going down this road. You're like, I see two women that I love in my life actively changed. This is worth me at least checking out and having an open heart to let the Lord reveal to me what this is all about. And at this point, I think you're still not delivered from porn, but you're on the journey to freedom. I'm still relapsing. Okay. Like a better term. Like I'm.

So you trying to fight it off, but I still fall into it here and fall into it there. And here comes a deliverance thing. You see fruit and your prime. They have a deliverance night and J .K .L. hot. I believe it was on a Tuesday night and it was back in February, February or March of 2022. And we go to it. I'm like, you know what? What you guys are saying? I mean, it sounds good. I'll give it a shot. And I go to it and it was the first time as we're sitting there just listening to J .K .L. teach.

of what Jesus' ministry looked like and why isn't our ministry today looking like Jesus' where he's delivering people and that for the sake of freedom Christ wants to set us free and that's part of his plan, that's what he paid for and did on the cross was not only our salvation but to defeat the chains of the enemy. Amen. To set us free. And it just like came alive for me that night. And it made me just realize like, all right, God, like you can do this. I believe you can do this and I can't. You finally believed it. Yeah. For you. Yeah.

your shame, your guilt, your self -hatred, all the junk. You're like, you know what, God, I actually believe that you will do this for me. For me. And it was awesome. I mean, we were sat there for hours that night just listening and praying. And I just remember sitting there in the row and just praying to God, being like, God, like, this is your, I can't, I can't do this anymore. You've reached the end of CJ Shaw. There's nothing I can do. I've come to my end. Everything I've tried to do in my power is no good.

It's not working. Like I give this to you, God, like I need your help. And we didn't know that night. Like, I don't know. Nothing drastic happened. OK, so it wasn't like this big like I'm free. You fell on the ground. No, I didn't fall over and pulsating on the ground or throwing up or anything like that. Yeah. We left the night and Rachel and I both were just like, that was awesome. Feeling great. I love what he's talking about. And I really prayed that God would take this thing away from me. And I woke up the next day and.

I had no desire for whatsoever. There was no, for really weeks, for weeks, I had no intention of like, I need this. Okay. So I didn't catch this the first time around. Um, no desire. So that he changed. So I think for some people when it comes to deliverance, we're expecting somebody yelling and people falling on the ground and puking and.

Demonic deliverance is a real thing and those things do happen. But let's put that aside for a minute and let's just talk about being delivered from our sin. Not demons, let's just talk about our flesh, being delivered from our flesh. I think you said it there, I think you hit the nail on the head. He changed the desire of your heart. I no longer desire what my flesh wants, God, I die to that.

I can't do it. And that's a battle because I never desired it to begin with in the sense of like my my spirit's telling me like this is wrong. Every time I did it, I would, you know, shame and there was guilt and frustration. You desired the flesh. You didn't desire. I just think I desired the feeling. Right. Right. Because sin makes you feel good for a little bit. Right. The one saying I remember Pastor would always say is like sin takes you further than you want to go keeps you longer than you want to stay and makes you pay more than you want to pay.

And again, like those things, little sayings would stay in my head and you'd hear that. And I'm like, well, here I am, you know, staying longer than I want to stay. But God brought it to light and he used it and showed it. And my wife was so gracious about it. And then he delivered me from it. I desire freedom and a life for you, Christ. I desire a life in the spirit more than I desire the feelings of my flesh or the desire of a feeling good in the moment. Yeah.

That's deliverance. Now there are other levels to it, but at its base, most people, that is deliverance. So don't think that because you've been prayed over 50 times and you haven't felt this huge spiritual shockwave in your life that you aren't getting healed or delivered. For most people, that's it. God doesn't have to knock you on the ground and...

you're unconscious for three hours, that happens. The Holy Spirit will do that. But I always question that too sometimes. It's more often what you went through. This, I finally lay down my flesh, I lay down my own will, my own power to do it. I died to self. I die to you and I receive and believe and want this free life that you offer in Jesus and I believe it. And then,

Yeah. And so, I mean, it went for quite a few weeks of just like, I have, there's no desire whatsoever. Like I don't even feel any inclination for it. I don't want it. Um, that went on for maybe even a couple of months. And then I definitely noticed where it's like, all right, the enemy is trying to use this again. Well, cause what happens? You get delivered, the enemy leaves, he goes and finds seven more and comes back. And if the house isn't in order, and here's where I think deliverance people mess it up.

is they don't teach you about filling that space in your heart with a desire for the Holy Spirit. Jake Kale does a very good job of talking about those things. Because the enemy's coming back with seven more and you can set people up for a really, really rough season. Yeah. And that's the thing, like it was a couple of weeks after that I started realizing too, like, all right, I need to put up blockades. I need to protect myself. Boundaries. There's things like I try to stay off Instagram the best I can. I know we try to share some stuff on there too, but I don't linger there. Yeah. Because no matter what I do, I'm scrolling through and then something pops up and you're just like, well, that's not good.

Right. So that one's usually off my phone. Facebook usually fine. The other ones I'm usually fine on. And yeah, I've got those protections in place that I'm not worried about it. It's not something I've fallen into. It's not something that has me anymore. You know your trigger points. Yeah. When you get set free, you start, you finally have clarity of mind to be like, what's the trigger point? Yeah. Okay. If this happens, it will lead to this. You start understanding the process of getting to that place of now I'm in it.

So you start setting up barriers. Yep. But immediately following it, the first thing I did was starting to fill that space. Right. Right. Because there's, you know, it was a nightly thing of like, that's when the enemy usually... Hours of time that needs filled. Yeah. Well, there was just time where it was typically in the night when the enemy was trying to move and do things. Right. I needed to fill that space with something. So I just started digging into the word and I would replace that time with just reading. Yeah. And for a while it was just like, I don't know what I'm reading.

I'm just reading. I don't know where I'm going with this. What's the point? I'm just reading. Um, around the same time I found my buddy, I went to college with, he's a house parent of Milton Hershey and I messaged him the one day I'm like, yo, I didn't realize you were that close to me. Let's get together and start a men's group. Let's start doing a Bible study so men can talk about what men go through. And uh, so we did just him and I, and then we started inviting some neighbors and some friends, people from church. Um, and it's grown into thing. I think we typically have like six to eight.

Nice. Six to eight, 10 people there. And you've been consistent with that as long as I've known you. Yeah, ever since we started, it's weekly. So if anybody's in the area, if you want a men's group to get a part of. And that's when? Thursday nights? Thursday nights, eight o 'clock. Eight o 'clock. Yeah, usually go for an hour and then just talk. Yeah. Hang out. But we started doing that and it was great where God has been able to show me just the scripture, who He is, where things started, why we are the way we are, and then how He comes into it.

And we started all the way back in Genesis, right in the beginning, saw the picture of it between Genesis one and 11, and then just be able to move through and see Jesus working in the Old Testament, you know, God, where he was and what he's doing and his plans and just being able to talk through those things. It's been awesome. What has happened in your life? I've, I've watched your journey in the last few years and your hunger for the Lord and your zeal and desire to know the heart of God more like,

We've watched it and we continue to watch it and it's encouraging. So you get delivered, you get healed, you see the truth in the light about pornography, which is basically like the entry breakthrough thing for almost everybody. Once you conquer that one, your confidence starts going. Once you know you're free from it, your confidence starts going through the roof, free from your addiction, whether it's pornography or whatever it may be.

How has that helped you now because there's still gonna be challenges. They're just not gonna be, the devil can't get you with that anymore. But he doesn't stop. No, he still tries. And your flesh is still flesh. And the spirit is still the spirit. And they're gonna be battling each other. So how do you use the knowledge that you've learned from your 13 year journey, 12, 10, whatever year journey with that and use the tools and the resources that you've learned?

to help you today with the challenges you face. Because now you're stepping out and helping other people, which brings a whole nother type of warfare, a whole nother type of flesh. So maybe now it's not pornography, maybe now it's pride could creep in. Like how are you more aware now of the tactics of the enemy to keep you centered in Christ and your desire for him? Does that make sense? Yeah, I think it's just an ongoing conversation with God. Because I...

I don't do great with like getting my time in of like, all right, here's my silent time with God. I do occasionally, it happens, but I ongoingly like have a conversation with God throughout the day when situations happen to, you know, pop off or things go on. It's, God, what do I do in this situation? Show me truth, give me wisdom, give me discernment. And it's just like this ongoing conversation. I feel like I never stopped praying in that sense, you know, like I'm always just walking in that sense.

Or doing my best versus reaching out to him and crying out when you get to that death and now I need you now It's like no actually need you all the time all the time. Yeah, I had a mentor for a long season of my life who Taught me this better than anybody. I know walking with the Lord in everything. That's the goal. He wants you to walk with him through life and Once he gets you to a place of experiencing the freedom that he brings

and Jesus, now your desire is to not leave his presence. So it's not necessarily, well, I didn't get time in the secret place today. I mean, you should strive to have some quiet time with the Lord every day. That should be a goal of everybody's.

But if you're the opposite where you're just like, well, I did my 30 minutes, check mark, and now I'm gonna go live my life today the way I wanna live it. You kinda missed the whole point of the presence of God. It's a daily through everything. And yeah, I watch you walk that out. And it's fun to be doing life with people that are like that. It makes it more fun. It does. And you start building a community of people that are wanting more of God.

And it's just like, you invite more people in and you just like show them like, well, here's how God's moved in my life. Right. And that's what I hope people get out of this is like, I struggled with it, man. Like I was in the thick of it daily, weekly, nightly. Like that was my life. Let me put a facade on and I'm going to go hide in the back and do my thing. And then God delivered me from it. So let's talk about.

That's a big challenge in your life. And Jesus comes in, you finally die to self and quit trying to do it. You realize that fear does not bring any freedom. It only brings bondage. The truth and the light comes in. Rachel completely walks in an awesome woman of God in a moment where it all came to a head in that moment. That was what you were afraid of the whole time. So the devil keeps you in it.

So that your fear keeps you from getting to that place. So we hide it, we stay in shame. Now she's like, you need to take it to God. She gives you the right answer. And now you're on the journey. It's healed, restored, renewed. She's getting delivered. You're getting delivered. Everyone's getting a free car. Everyone's getting delivered. No, she had a great encounter with God that same night with, and I'll let her share that story, but with the anxiety and stuff. And she's a changed woman from that point too. And it's been amazing to see how we've been able to come together and actually be a team.

for the kingdom of going like we're praying together, we're reading together. Most of our conversations through the day are like, hey, God showed me this. Or, you know, God showed me this in scripture. What do you think about this? I read this today. Like, what do you think about that? The conversation starts changing. It's all about God. I don't care about the Dallas Cowboys. I don't give a crap about sports. I don't mind it. I can talk about it and I can hold a con. I can fake my way through a conversation. At all.

Almost everybody in my life right now. Almost. But the Kingdom Moving people, Lindsey and I, our kids, us, other people, like, once you start walking with the Lord like that, believe me, you're gonna have stuff to talk about. You just, he's everywhere. And you're just like, oh my gosh, I just went through this, we had some crazy crap happen here today while we were filming this podcast. Okay, cool.

Something happened, God, what do we do? We move forward. You get to walk with him through this stuff. Oh, it takes the pressure off. It takes the fear out of stuff. It's not to say you can't do your sports, you can't have a good time and stuff, but it's no longer this. It's no longer here. Everything's in line and God's in all of it. Oh, I have my things that I love to, it's just not sports. Yeah, thank you for clarifying. I don't want people to be like, oh, these guys. No.

I'm there's guys in this area that use sports as a ministry. They travel all over the world. Yeah, like God can use anything. I'm what you said there was perfect. Like that isn't the thing that dominates my conversations. Right. I've had things. They're just a vessel that dominated my conversations. Right. Idols. That's what they really are. Right. And something for me to hide behind and pose behind. But once you start getting that.

I mean, anytime we get together, we're talking about, we have God stories, man. It's, it makes life more enjoyable. Yeah. Um, yeah. And then, I mean, you know, from there, it just turned into like, God, where do you want me to go from here? What do you want me to do? And he's really challenged me. Even that, the, the, uh, bootcamp that we went to, um, that was a big point for me where it's, I'm no longer focusing on trying to hide my addiction. Now I'm focusing on, okay, now that that part's gone, what next?

And like there was that was the first time I really started journaling and and digging in that way and God was able to reveal to me just like a bunch of things in my past of like how that made it have affected me and how that may have like skewed reality and skewed what truth is in my perspective because of what happened and so it really was able to show me truth show me just where I was and Where he wanted me to go and that was the first point. I really felt called into some kind of ministry. I

was back in that time. So not real sure what that's gonna look like yet, but I know it's coming. What did that look like, that calling, that feeling, that knowing? It was actually a dream. Okay. Do you want to share it or you don't have to? No, I'll share it. People are thinking I'm gonna be ridiculous. I wish I had my phones. I could pull the notes up, but I had a dream one night because Rachel is a very, she has dreams all the time and I usually don't.

So when you have them heads up. Well, yeah. I mean, if I can remember them, like sometimes I'll just wake up and be like, well, I had a dream, but I can't remember any of it. She's like, has these vivid dreams. I'll freaking waking up in the middle of the night sometimes and she's praying in her sleep. I'm like, what is this? Yeah. Can't wait to hear what that is in the morning. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I started like just one night I was like praying like, God, I want to have dreams. She's having these things. It sounds fun. I want to hear. I want to see.

And, uh, so I prayed for a couple of days and finally one night I had a dream and I woke up and every morning Rachel's like, did you have a dream? Did you have a dream? Did you dream? And I didn't even want to tell her that I did because it was so weird. And, uh, so I was like, oh, screw it. So I told her, I was like, well, I was, I was in like these salty plains, like these, just a desert wasteland kind of deal. And there was this wet area of mud and, um, in the mud, I saw people stuck in the mud.

And then there was a giant flamingo. Giant pink flamingo. You remember this now? I did hear this story. You remember? Yes. So I had this giant pink flamingo and it was taking people out of the mud and putting them in a cage behind them in a cliff. I was like, what the heck is this? I mean, what is this? And that's all I remembered. I was like, I don't want to tell Rachel this. But as I was there, like my desire while I was in the dream was I need to get those people out of the cage. And uh.

who was actually at the boot camp. Shehan, Rob Shehan. I shared with a couple guys just the story. That's right. I forgot all about this. Yeah, it was crazy. So I shared the story with a couple people. I'm like, you guys are going to think this is crazy, but I'm still trying to figure out what this means. And they were talking about dreams and visions and things like that. And I was like, yeah, if you guys have insight for me, cool. I don't even think this is anything. It was just a dream. Well, there was a book at the house we were at about birds.

And he pulled the book out and he was just reading it and it came to a robbed it. Yeah. And he was just reading a book that guy and he came up to a picture of pink flamingo and what I said they did as like flamingos and it was like they wait when the tide recedes. You have like the muddy water and stuff and animals and worms and stuff get caught in the mud. And it's just people getting caught in the mud, getting caught in the crap and the flamingo, the enemy can come and just pick them out and put them in bondage because they're stuck in the bowl in the crap. Yep. And he's like,

I don't know if this means anything for you, but after listening to you and read that, I think you're meant to deliver people. Oh my gosh. I'm just like, are you serious? Like how did this just happen right now? Um, so yeah, I did really feel from that, whether people think that's crazy or not. No man, that's so spot on. It was like, uh, okay, I have something to do. Um, so what did you learn about dreams? That's still something we're going through. You write them down immediately on your phone. You wake up in the middle of the night, you write down details, colors.

words, anything, you write it all down because a woman like Rachel, my wife, other people that have dreams, they can interpret them a lot quicker. For me, I'm like you, I don't have them regularly, but when I do, I'm like, okay, God might be trying to tell me something, I need to write it down. And then you wait. And as long as you don't close the door on that and be like, eh, that was just my flesh. All right, Lord, if that was you, I trust that you're gonna reveal it to me later on.

Yeah, it's funny too, because like I had that before the new year of 2023. And I did my first Sunday school class at church right in the new year. We're just going to start Genesis one, because that's something I've been through. I talked about boot camp would have been in February or March. Okay. And so that was fresh in my mind. Cause I had that dream in December of 2022. And so Rachel and I are like thinking, well, who's our flamingo? Who's our pink flamingo? That's the enemy. And we get the church on the first class.

and I'm sitting there about to teach on Genesis. And one of the guys come in and tells a joke about a pink flamingo. I'm like, is this it? It's of course like Rachel and I are like, yeah, what is this? What is this? My pastor had a pink shirt on the one day. Is he the pink flamingo? Right. So yeah, we're testing things, right? We're figuring it out, seeing what's going on. And then when that happened, he the flamingo. But so again, that happened. It was just like I was dumbfounded when I heard it. I was like, holy cow.

And then from that point on, it's been like, I'm in a time of preparation. Like God is using this time to prepare me, show me truth, guide me and rebuild things that he has been building in my life that I've just put to the wayside. And just like, how do I help people? How do I put God in people's situations? How do I allow them to see God in their situation? How do I guide them to God in the same sense that people did for me? And so that's where I'm being prepared right now. I do think that he's calling me into something that's going to be...

good and gonna be used for him. I don't think it's right now. He's preparing you. He's preparing me. And things are happening right now that are preparing me for that. I mean, helping lead Sunday school with worship, men's group, this. They're all things that make me go, what do I actually believe? And make you go find the answer and spend the time with him. Yeah. All right, Holy Spirit, what are you teaching me right now? And what do I believe that's not true? Yeah. I mean, I tell you, man, like,

there's been so many cool things, just God moments where as we have begun to dig in more and what God has trusted with, we have trying to grow and trying to, you know, like the idea of in the garden where God has given us something to work and to mend and to do His will, as we have done that faithfully, He's entrusted us with more. Yeah. Right. So it's been cool to see and like sometimes things happen and you're just like, Whoa, like what?

You're letting me do this now? I wasn't expecting this. I wasn't expecting you to come up and talk to me about this. And then it's a moment of, okay, slow down. God, what do you want me to do in this situation? I give them over to you and I pray that I can just guide them to you. So that's where we're at right now. Our marriage is growing and flourishing and becoming something greater than I ever imagined it would be. And then we're just trying to help in the kingdom. You guys are a good, Lindsay and I have...

You've given us access to see you guys on a little bit more intimate level. You never know who somebody is until you get close. And just the way you guys are with each other, the way you interact, the way you guys interact with your children, the joy your family has, your desire for hunger. You can tell that for quite frankly, you guys are young, you're in your twenties yet. Like there's a lot of life ahead of you. You've conquered some of the things that people just put a bandaid over.

And I promise you to our listeners, whatever, you know what it is. When I said that people right away, they know what the bandaid is. What are you covering up that you think you're hiding from God and hiding from other people? That he already knows. He already knows. Just get it out and start the journey of freedom. Like you can either spend the rest of your life in the torment of it. You were 10, 12, 13 years in torment. Finally, your biggest fear is in front of you and you realize that it's all bull crap because fear is the enemy and it's a lie. Truth comes in.

And very quickly, you go from a 13 year journey of trying to fix it yourself to within several weeks or months. It's done. It's sealed. It's the devil can't. I'm a new creation. I'm a new creation. And that's the thing too is like, I'm not trying to hide it from people, right? Cause I want people to cause you're free because I'm free. Like, and it's like, I mean, my mind where it goes is like, all right, if I try to hide this from people and then they find out about it, they're going to go away. Who are you? Right? No, I'm not staying in that graveyard.

No, right. It's like no i'm coming here. I'm going like look, this is who I once was i'm free I was a porn addict who tried to follow christ. Yeah, and I was not in it Yeah, and now i'm a new creation and i'm following with all my heart And everything I do everything in life. I try to have him in the midst of it And it's been different ever since you've just laid out for people go read about jesus's journey to golgotha You just laid out what that is like?

For us to be Christ -like, we have to go through the same thing that Christ went through, which means that we're gonna have to go through the journey to death. So that we can what? Experience the resurrection power. I believe that's in 2 Peter 5. So for you, people want life in their situation right now. They wanna experience, I wanna experience the resurrection power and the life abundant that Jesus promises us. I want that. But some of us have gone through that journey.

Yeah of dying to self. I'm just telling you this morning. I was reading my journals on November 11th 2023 the only entry I had was I finally reached the end of myself. I've read that I'm like I Sat there for a while. I'm like, holy cow That's pretty profound. But it's what you're saying. I finally reached the end of trying to do it myself. I couldn't There's nothing like no other stone. I could turn no other path. I could take self -help book motivational speed wasn't working

Even though I wanted it to be gone, I never wanted it. I wanted it to go. It finally was. Because you were doing it in fear. I was doing it in fear and I was trying to do it in my own power. Own power and fear. Flesh and letting the enemy try and lead it versus immediately the light and truth comes in and freedom starts happening and deliverance comes and wherever you're at in your journey from here on out, you always know, bring the light and truth in as quickly as I can.

As quickly as I can. That's 100 % because then when other situations arise, if I'm dealing with anger issues or things like that, it's okay, God help me here. Show me the truth as to why I'm frustrated. What is the pinpoint reason of what has caused this? I like that idea of like when Paul tells us to take our thoughts captive. Yeah. Right. When the enemy creeps in and sends you these bad ideas, these bad things, or this just this anger or frustration, he says, take those captive. Right. Don't just get rid of them. Ask them where they came from. Like it's prisoner of war talk.

Yeah, it's like no I'm gonna take you captive and say like why are you here? Where did you come from and? What am I gonna do with you? What are you telling me? Lord Holy Spirit reveal to me a truth reveal my heart. Yeah reveal your heart. Yeah. Yeah reveal your heart about this thing. Yeah, and Man you when you pause Lindsey's in her journal that she's writing I've been starting to do this and just she's been kind of like we've been kind of teaming up on this thing

It's like when taking those thoughts captive, hold on, Holy Spirit, what's the truth right now? Bring me back to the truth. And then when you get there, now what do you want me to do? You want me to sit? You want me to move? You want me to do this? Like, what do you want me to do? Oh, man, that's a free way to live your life. I love it, man. So I mean, in closing with you guys, like, God's moving today. Yeah.

God is active just as much as he was before. His spirit's moving and alive. It's sharper than a double -edged sword. And it wants to show you truth. He wants to show you truth. And so, with that being said, like, I mean, if you guys have things that you're trying to hide or that you're afraid to be found out on, start by giving it to God. Start by praying and giving it to God. Ask him to show you truth. Ask him to find people to put in your life that can help you. And start...

letting it go. Start giving it up to God. Start letting other people find out that I'm not perfect. I have my problems and I don't want them anymore. And go through that process and God will meet you when you get out of the way. He will deliver you from it. That's awesome, dude. Yeah. Yeah. We'd love to hear some testimonies. If you guys are out there, we're all struggling with something.

Some people are just putting it in Jesus's hands a lot quicker than others. Yeah. Cause they've been through it a little bit more. They understand his heart and his ways a little bit more. If you're kind of on your journey where you're, you haven't really felt that yet, or you haven't experienced that yet, or you just, you do desire that. Um, there are people out there that want to help. Like you can reach out to us. You can get involved with, uh, groups at a local church. There's plenty of groups around here.

that can help with these things. You do not have to be held captive to that thing at all. It's time to get free. I want to teach people how to pray. Some people are listening to this right now and they're like, I don't even know what to pray. You don't have to know what to pray. You just need to say, Jesus, help. Just help me. Show me the truth. And then just believe that he will and just pay attention for the next couple of days. Like the pink flamingo.

It was months until that started making sense. So just journal it. Jesus, I need help in this struggle in my marriage. I need help in this struggle with my children. I need help in this struggle with my alcoholism. And start looking for the windows and the opportunities. He's gonna use people to help you. And you can just, people know what fruit looks like. So, man, thanks for sharing all that.

And then that's pretty much it for this week. We're going to talk about, I think, deception on our next podcast. So you and I will be praying into that. I think we're going to start going down deception. Maybe just how the enemy uses that to get you to go down these, these roads and deceives you into a life of torment and bondage and fear and keeping you away from the light and the truth and how to get you set free from that. So.

Cool. Cool. All right, buddy. Well, I will see you in church this week. I'm excited to see you play drums. Yeah, right. And cool. Everybody have a great week and we'll catch you next time. Please give us a follow. Give us a subscription. Give us a five star review on the platform that you're on and share it around with your friends. Hopefully you guys are learning some stuff and I think right out your testimony, right out your testimony. You've heard sort of the way we do it. Yeah.

I mean, every time you have this conversation, it's going to be a little different. But those points of where you saw God move in your life and where he just pulled you from the mud and saved you, write it out. Get an idea. Think about it. Don't even have to write it out. I'll just ponder it. Something to think on is like, God, you've been so good to me. You've been so good to me. Amen.