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The characters and stories of the Old Testament form a rich tapestry, revealing both the best and worst of the human condition—and, most importantly, how God relates to us.
Based on the Living Covenant book series, this podcast explores the sometimes messy lives of those who lived under God’s first covenant, asking what these blessedly unsanitised saints can teach us about living out our faith in relationship with a God who promises never to leave us or forsake us.
Welcome to the Living Covenant Podcast, where we journey through the messy human stories of the Old Testament explore what it means to live in covenant with a promise keeping God. I'm your host, Zanita. Let's dive in.
what does SJ actually stand for?
SJ stands for Stewart Junior.
Stewart Junior. Cool. Yeah. Do you like the name Stewart or you prefer SJ?
To be honest, when I was a kid I hated the name Stewart. Like- ... there was that running movie, Stuart Little.
Yep.
Would you remember that movie? And I remember being like from kindergarten to year two, like getting mocked constantly, "Oh, Stuart Little, Stuart Little," But it wasn't until my mom redirected it and was like, "Just go back, tell those kids, yeah, you're famous." so Yeah, my relationship with the name Stewart has changed over the years and now I'm perfectly fine with it. But yeah, many people call me SJ, even my own parents, so I find that funny.
Classic. All right. Well, hello everyone. Hello SJ. Welcome to Living Covenant Podcast.
Hi everyone. Yeah, thanks for having me, Zanita.
Sure. It's a pleasure to be here.
Well, aside from Stuart Little coming out when you're a kid- ... um, tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you? What does life look like for you?
Yeah, so I'm SJ and I'm 27. I am of Samoan heritage, Australian born, and I am passionate about people and about them learning about Jesus.
And besides that, some of the things I love to do is play sport, I love to work out and I also love to read, which is something that over the years I've fallen back in love with. And that's a little bit about me.
Yeah. Cool. Do you have a favorite book? What book got you in love with reading again?
Hmm. To be honest, ever since I was in primary school to high school, I always read picture books, comic books, and also manga. It wasn't until probably the last years, my early 20s, I was beginning to ask questions about myself and then I just started going to the religion section at the public library- Mm
and then I would just start reading whatever Christian books they had. Yeah. One that caught my attention, and there was a, ah, there was a book, I can't really remember the name of it, but they made a movie out of it, and it's about this Christian family whose son had fallen into the ice. But yeah, then basically the son was presumed dead and even doctors said that he was dead.
But it really showed the faith of the parents, especially the mom.
Yeah. Wow. I'm sure if people, Google that description, they'll find it. But libraries can be dangerous. I went to the library recently to study and then just walked down an aisle and then I was there for like an hour 'cause I was like-
"This looks interesting. This looks interesting." Um, but you mentioned you're into sports as well. What kind of sports do you play? 'Cause you touch on that quite a bit in your piece.
Yeah, that's right. So growing up, the main sport was rugby, touch footy. Over the years it's changed, and the main sport at the moment is basketball. But in terms of playing sport, I enjoy playing nearly everything, like from basketball, rugby, even soccer. I may not be great at some sports, but I really enjoy the community aspect and also being able to compete against other people. I think that's a fun way to do exercise.
Yeah, I'm currently getting over my fear of team sports. This is a bit of a confession.
Oh, okay.
Yeah. Um, I, I find team sports kind of daunting, I think because I have memories from primary school where, you know, you let the team down and kids yell at you- ... and got, got angry. And so I've always kind of- Yeah ... associated team sports with, like mass disappointment and really high expectations. But you talk about this idea in your article. Your piece is on Caleb, but before you get to Caleb, you talk about how you're playing a game and your team is super focused on how good your opponents are kind of thing. Mm-hmm. And I think this is a common thing we see in sports, but I think this is just a common thing we see in life is,
Yes
what we focus on tends to dictate- Mm-hmm. Yep ... our response and our actions. But talk to us about your experience with sport. I know you talk about the huddle and how you have to come back together. But what's been your experience with the power of the mind when you've been playing sports?
Hmm. Zanita, I love how you, you brought that up and definitely, I found the power of the mind in sports is, is very powerful. Because you will get players and teams that are a lot more skillful, and maybe on paper when you see, like two teams versing each other, a lot of people will look, "Okay, this is the better team.
They should win." But then I always say that on the day, on game day, on game night, it can always change because there's a variable of factors that play into part. And for example if someone hasn't been having a great day and then they come to the game with that same mindset, it's very, very likely that they will play the same way that they've gone about their day.
Yes. And so I found that, yeah, when it comes to sports, the power of the mind and being able to focus on the right thing really makes a difference and matters in terms of not only winning, but in terms of allowing yourself to give the team and yourself the best opportunity to win.
Hmm.
Is that kind of the point of the halftime huddle to kinda like, um, shift everyone to focus back to what's important? Do you pick up on, on who maybe is distracted or who is, I don't know, missing the point?
Yeah, for sure. I would say the halftime huddle is a pivotal, pivotal space where everyone comes back together and we start to reassess and discuss.
And you know, you would have had experience with sports, as you shared. Depending on how close you are with your team, the conversation can be very honest, and if you're someone that's not prepared to take in honest feedback, it can be very disheartening, but that's not the point of the halftime huddle.
Yeah. I'd say the halftime huddle is a point to have a honest conversation, to be able to address certain areas like, "Okay, what are we not doing right? What are we doing right? And being able to come together like, "Okay, we sort that out. Now let's go to the second half, and let's play the way we see ourselves playing."
Mm. Yeah. Yeah, you talk about this basketball... I think it's a basketball game. Where you were like, "In the first half, we were really frustrated, when the referee missed a foul call against us. Our body language spoke volumes. When we missed a shot, we would shake our heads."
And then you said, "It's easy to keep composure when you're winning, yet when you're losing it's a lot more challenging From that point, you go into the story of Caleb, and I'm curious of hear from you how you made the link between the two. Like, where do we see this I guess, attitude or response in Caleb's story?
Hmm. Well, how it alluded to me was I remember at the time one of my favorite stories I was reading through was in Numbers and especially the Old Testament. And it's funny that when I had the opportunity to write on the Old Testament, I would say that I'm someone that, not that one is greater than the other, but I really love the Old Testament stories.
Hmm.
Like, New Testament, a lot of people know it, but the Old Testament, I'm like, I love going back to history and seeing how it points to Jesus coming in New Testament.
And for me, I remember how it came to me was when I was reading through the story of Numbers 13 and 14 where we see that Joshua, Caleb, and the other spies are introduced to going to Canaan. And- How it comes to my attention is that I always love to look at scripture and then be able to also recognize where in life does this apply?
What are real-life applications? And I remember just coming to the conclusion that when all the spies returned from Canaan, where Moses had sent them out to scout out the land, 10 spies had a very different report to Joshua and Caleb. The 10 spies, they were focused on how great the opponents were, how strong the opponents were, but it was only Joshua and Caleb that had confidence in God. And it reminded me many times in sport that you always start to focus on the strengths and you could say even the attributes of the opposing team.
Mm.
And I think it's, it's powerful when you do do that. Like, you, you recognize, but then you have to shift from recognition to being able to also self-recognize how you can make a difference as well.
Yeah. But many times I've found that in sports, the difference between a good team and a bad team is that both teams can be good, but one is more focused on the opponents instead of focusing on what their team is able to do. Mm. And I found that when it comes to the story of, Caleb especially, is that Caleb was one of the two, him and Joshua, that were more focused on God's character and how God has come through and God's sovereignty, God's strength, and His power.
And the other 10 spies had totally forgotten that God had led them all the way, and now they're faced with the opposition. They're more focused on what they could see in front of them.
Hmm. Yeah. I guess it's easy for some people to criticize this mindset and be like, "That's just delusional."
Like, Caleb wasn't there going, "Ah, it doesn't matter. Don't worry about them. They're not a threat against us." He was being realistic with who these people were, but he wasn't just stopping at that.
Mm.
He was being like, "Oh yeah, they're really strong, but, God has said this, but God has called us to do this."
And I think that's a important distinguishment because it's not just about, like, pretending the other team isn't good or pretending they're not powerful or whatever. Um- Yeah Can you, unpack you've mentioned a little bit of the story here, but can you take us back to the beginning of this story? What was God asking these men to do?
Yeah, sure. I'd love to. So what happened is the tribe of Israel had come now and they hadn't entered the promised land yet, the promised land of Canaan. So God had instructed Moses to go and scout the land and then we find that scripture tells us that God didn't instruct Moses how many people to choose, but Moses then made a leadership decision to choose 12 people to represent the land of Israel.
And then what happens is Moses then gives them some instructions, "Go see what the land is like. Also, if you're able to, bring back some produce so we may be able to see what the land has to offer." And then Moses picks 12 men, and out of those 12 men he picks Joshua and Caleb.
And a lot of people know Joshua because, Joshua is the one that succeeds Moses in terms of leadership, yet not many people know about Caleb and that's because Caleb's only mentioned in a few instances in the Bible, and this being one of them. And so Moses sends these 12 men to scout the land of Canaan.
They go there for some time, they travel and I believe, yeah, they were there for 40 days. Yeah, 40 days scouting out the land and then when they come back, all 12 of them, they were carrying a large cluster of grapes to- Hmm
show Moses and those around that this is what the land has to offer.
Cause they were- And it- ... super big grapes from memory that were like-
That's right. That's
right.
Yeah. That's right. These were, like these were massive grapes, so-
Yeah ...
it's crazy to be able to, to comprehend how fruitful this land was and that's where we find that one of the most common phrases or sayings of the promised land is they said, "Yeah, you know, this is the land that's flowing with milk and honey."
Hmm. Just showing how not only fruitful the land was and how good the land was.
Yeah. I guess It makes you wonder- Moses obviously chosen, I think it is 12 leaders from each different tribe and two of them- Yeah ... are kind of like standouts.
Two of them come back with quite a different attitude. So I guess it makes you wonder, did he choose the best of the best and as for those other 10 was that the best representation of their tribe or, um- Yep ... 'cause I don't know, it's just interesting. It's like, oh, the best leadership during that period was not-
Mm
the Israelites.
Like-
Yeah. That's a good point. But to be honest, I, I didn't look into the leadership.
Yeah, I don't know. I, I don't know if it- Yeah ... I don't know if it explains.
But it doesn't... what comes to my attention is that Moses picked those that he would've seen as, okay, these are capable leaders and sending them out. Yet the thing that the 10 missed that Joshua and Caleb had is who was leading them.
Mm.
Because, right, Moses was leading the Israelites, but who was leading Moses was God.
And this comes back to the whole, the thought process and even that attitude is I find what's so powerful about, about sports is that we're not just talking about sports now, but what I love about the game of sports is that it reflects real life. And when you're losing, it's not character building, but it's character revealing.
Mm.
It actually exposes how you are able to navigate the challenges of life and loss. And honestly, that's one of the biggest things why I love sport. And when I talk about this team huddle is when you think about a group of people like the Israelites, or you think about a group of people today like the church, a family, a community, it's always how you navigate together that leads to everyone being able to succeed.
Mm.
That's why when you said team sports, I definitely got it where you're like, "Yeah, you know, I didn't really like it, you know, there's a lot of expectation and disappointment," and that's understandable.
Mm.
, you said it's not, character forming, but I suppose it's, like, in these small moments you can learn to respond a certain way, or you can choose how you're going to respond.
And so I, I think you're right, like, it does reveal where your character is already at. But I think in small moments like sports or, I don't know, small moments at work, or small moments wherever you are, whatever you're doing, it's those small moments that can help-
Mm ...
transform your character for the bigger things in life as well.
Um, so I think yeah, it can be both. Yeah. It's like revealing and can also be a moment of transformation.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely.
Um, but yeah, take us back. I think where we landed with the story of Caleb was they had got the grapes and they'd come back with a report saying, "It's flowing with milk and honey."
So what happens after that point?
That's right. It's flowing with milk and honey, and then you would think that the report stops there, and then they continue on then to share, "Yeah, but we saw giants in the land," and they list that it was one of their ancestors. But they, they said there's giants in the land.
And then to show How insignificant or how low and weak they saw themselves. They even said, "We were like grasshoppers." They didn't say they were like miniature people or they were smaller 'cause that would've, you know, put into perspective, okay, there may be giants and you're smaller, but they really minimized and reduced themselves to an insect.
Mm.
And it just shows the mindset and the mentality that these 10 other spies had-
Yeah ...
which I thought w- was crazy. Yeah, fascinating. I've missed that part, but that is
really interesting. Like not just- Mm-hmm ... small men, but grasshoppers. It's quite an extreme-
Yeah ...
response.
And what comes to my mind, if we pause there, many times in our lives and journey today and in our Christian walk is we can unintentionally do that to ourselves.
And, you know, God is always leading and walking with us into a promised land or to an opportunity and it could be a, a place where you've dreamed of being there and being able to serve or work, whatever area of your life. But then when we get there, what can happen is we start to minimize ourself because we may see the, the challenge in front of us, you know, greater than what our experiences has been.
Mm. Has that been something you could, yeah, you could resonate with?
Yeah, I think it's something that, I struggle with sometimes even in the church because sometimes you can have that attitude of "I am nothing and I'm a sinner." Um Mm. But, but you forget also the part that, well, you're also a child of God. Think we forget who He has called us to be, that we are no longer that old thing, but we can get stuck in that mindset still. Like, who am I to do anything?
Mm. Well, you're a child of God. You're super gifted, you're super talented. He loves you. Yeah ... and so I think also being careful with where you put your focus on with that- Mm ... um, can, yeah, can just dictate, how you show up to what He calls you to do and how you show up in life, I think.
yeah, 100%. And I just wanna share a bit about what you just said, and that's where I find it's very important what you just said in terms of focus because one thing I will share that many people struggle with, that have not only played sports but may have had a setback in regards to being able to fulfill a lifelong dream or maybe even a goal, and what really shifted and changed my mind on playing sports, whether I win or lose, is actually what you just said, is recognizing that whether I win or lose, I'm a child of God. Whether I get the job or not, I'm a child of God. Will I fulfill my dream or not? I'm a child of God. And we can even talk about the injury as well, but yeah, for me, a big part of my life was saying, you know, God is first.
God is number one, and then family, and sports and everything. But then when I got injured, soon it exposed what was really happening in my heart, was that I actually didn't believe that God was everything to me. So I'll be happy to, to share about that. But what really changed for me is that when I accepted that I am who God says I am, I'm His son before anything, I would go into playing a game now, and say we lost, that's all good.
I'll continue on with my day, with my week. But if I lost in the past, I would then start to ruminate and dwell on all the mistakes until I come back to the next game next week.
Mm.
So do you see how, how very up and down it can be, like, when you're focusing on results and, focusing on identity in the wrong area.
Yeah, and I think that's natural for us humans in some respect. Mm. We've gotta kind of train our minds to be able to... we're always gonna have those intrusive thoughts Yeah ... and those, discouraging thoughts. But-
Mm ...
I think you get better at learning to fight them and argue them.
Mm. And, I think that's a skill that we can... But yeah, talk to us about this injury. I feel like injuries, everyone experiences them. It's inevitable. - Yep.
Yep ... we
experience illnesses or sicknesses or injuries throughout life. And I think in my experiences, health things or injuries can really get to my head.
Mm ... even if I know, even if I know, it's temporary and it's gonna heal, I get quite frustrated and impatient with the process.
Yeah. The injury that I talk about in the article, it's funny because- That's my second injury.
So- Mm ... a few years before that, I injured my left knee and was out for two years. And then fast-forward to writing the article, as I'm writing it, I had just experienced injuring my right knee. And so it's been two years since then. Yet the difference was when I first injured my left knee, I was in year 12, and that's where it really exposed my heart.
Like, I remember, I remember being in high school getting angry at people for walking. Do you know how crazy ... I was like, "Man, look at this guy. He's just walking over there." I was just hating on everyone and, really spiraling into self-pity. Like, "Oh, no one understands how tough it is."
Fast-forward a few years later where after spending time getting to know who God really is, a loving father and how he sees me, now when I experience this injury, like- It was inevitable that I was sad and I was down- Yeah ... which is, which is a normal process of life. I want people to be able to clock that, that, you know- Yeah
when bad things happen, you're allowed to, have sad emotions. God gave us emotions for a reason. But what changed was even though I had experienced an injury, is it didn't limit how I saw God and what I thought would be capable. At times it was definitely challenging, and I'm not afraid to say that there were times where I cried or shed tears, even crashed out at God, like, "Man, why is this happening again?"
You know? But I remember I was in those very honest moments and honest conversations with God, it was freeing because God would always bring back to mind, or even through community and people would show me that this is only, like you said, temporary. Yeah. It's a moment. But what I've also learnt, and I don't always love it, but-
when we suffer, not that God is the author of pain, but he allows us to be able to relate and speak to those who are- Yeah ... going through something that we've gone through. So- Yeah ... at those times when I look back, I see it as, as it helping me with an opportunity to be able to speak life into someone else who's, yeah, going through an injury.
Yeah, I think it's awesome. It's, uh... I feel like sometimes I can get frustrated when I go through injuries or setbacks in life 'cause you're like, "Oh, this is just to help someone in the future. That's kind of annoying." But, but it is- ... really, I feel like you come out the other side and it does give you, an appreciation for your legs or an appreciation for your arms.
I feel like until you get an injury or a health setback, you kinda just autopilot through life.
That's
right. And then you're like, "Man, if I could walk- Mm ... that would be the best thing in the world." Yeah. "I can't wait till I can do that again." So yeah, it gives you appreciation.
It helps you relate with people, for sure.
You've talked about the power of the mind being really important, can you give us an example- Right
of practically where you've found yourself in like a thought pattern, and how have you changed that? What has been your process of changing that?
Yeah, sure. I'd, I'd love to. The other thing I want to address for anyone that watches is that , there's also injuries or setbacks that people experience that they may not have even caused. You know, you find out later that you have a certain illness or disease or... I've known of people that have walked upstairs and the next thing you know they've broken like their collarbone, like-
Yeah ...
the ground was wet, and it's like- Yeah ... trying to imagine, like how does that even happen? And in regards to practical tools, I would say-
Three things. One thing that's helped a lot is being able to journal. And when we journal, I would say for me, the biggest difference is that when I journal, I just start off with, "Dear God," like in regards to I'm talking to God openly, and then I just now start to write out my honest thoughts and what's happening.
'Cause I found that there's times where I wanna speak to God, but I don't have the strength or just don't have the energy maybe to, to pray verbally.
Mm.
So for me, when I'm journaling, it's just like, oh man, you know, the, the pen starts doing everything or my thoughts start being translated.
And another powerful tool that I've implemented is... as humans, we have this natural tendency to avoid discomfort. Mm. And what I mean by that is when I got injured, I remember then my mind would be flooded with thoughts, right? And I said, you know, it's powerful to focus on the mind. But then there's times where in order to navigate forward, you just have to sit and pause and then really start to pick out, okay, where is this coming from?
Like, where's this thought coming from? In the New Testament, how it talks about, what's it called? Taking every thought captive and making it obedient to the power of Christ. Mm. And the reason why I say that is, now I'm just being honest in life, I used to be a very, very chronic people pleaser.
And so a lot of my challenges, as you mentioned earlier in the start was in regards to me not wanting to disappoint people. And so now when an injury comes, I remember I would hear thoughts and words in my mind that would stem from childhood. You know, oh, my mom being angry that I didn't do something or, maybe I made a mistake.
So those thoughts start to replay. And as uncomfortable as it can be to experience that, I've learned there's a power in just sitting with it and then now wrestling, " Is this true? Where is this coming from? And what does God say about it?" That's my thought process. Is this true? Where is this coming from?
What does God say about it? 'Cause even if I experience something that may be true, like say I... I hurt someone or I, I, I hurt someone knowingly. Now when the thought comes, it's like, "Okay, what did I do? Where is this coming from? But also, what does God say about me?"
And that's really made a, a massive difference in, yeah, how I'm able to navigate with not only injuries, but setbacks as well. And the last one I'd say is, especially if you have an injury, is to Be around community because that's something powerful and it's very easy that when you're injured that you, you can find yourself self-loathing, or wanting to isolate from everyone.
Like, you know, you're thinking that you need space, and you do. You need your own space, but that's also the most pivotal time where you need to be around people that love you and people that wanna see you. And it can be a bit of a challenge or it can be hard in the beginning, but trust me, being around community makes a massive impact, not only on just your mental health, but also your overall wellbeing, like being connected.
And that's something that really hits me hard with the halftime huddle in sports and especially in the article I read about basketball, is that it's very important that the people you have in your team, you allow them to speak to you truthfully and lovingly because there's times where, you know, we make mistakes in life or like you said before, we're not walking boldly into our potential and we have people around us that can see that.
And then when they start to, to call us higher and speak life into us to walk forward, it's very difficult if we're not able to trust them because it can then put our own team As an enemy in our minds
Mm.
And I find, yeah, that applies to life and that's why in the story it really hit me hard, especially with the injury that I was facing at the time, is that out of all the 12 spies, right, they all went and saw the same thing but they were all focused on a different reason.
Mm.
Joshua and Caleb were focused on how God was the reason they'll be able to overcome and, you know, something that blows my mind is all of the Israelites, they had just come out of Egypt. They had experienced so many miracles of God leading their lives and I recognize that the 10, they were still focused on a scarcity mindset of what they can't do.
Mm. But Joshua and Caleb were focused on an abundance mindset, but not about what they had, but about who they had- Mm ... and they had God with them. So yeah, sorry, that was a bit of a long spiel, but
No, that was great. No, that was good. I love that. So y- the three things you said were journaling, - Yep
identifying where your thoughts are coming from, so asking, is this true? Where's this coming from? And what does God say about it? And being around community. And I think, I love what you're saying, I think also, we can have these, negative kind of thoughts sometimes because people have said stuff in our community.
Mm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Not everyone speaks positivity over us, but I think even when that happens, you can still kind of apply number two. You can still say, "Where is that coming from? Is that true? And what does God say about that?" So, like if you are receiving that negative feedback from people- Yeah
apply that second point and I think, that will still be really helpful. But yeah, that's, that's great. I love those tips. And thank you for sharing what's helped you. But uh, where do we see Caleb, Caleb's story kind of finish off? What happens? close that picture for us.
Yeah. So after that story, we find that there's this whole meeting that happens, right?
So Joshua, Caleb have this whole meeting, and Moses and Aaron, and I'm just ending off from Numbers 14. And then we find that, what's it called? I just want people to recognize that Israel is like a nation. Like, At times I think people have, reduced Israel and say, "Oh, you know, it's just a group of people," you know, like the church.
No, no, this was - This was like nearly a million people. We're talking about hundreds of thousands. Mm. So imagine hundreds of thousands and only two, Mo- Joshua and Caleb, plus three others, Moses- Mm ... Aaron, and Miriam. Five out of all of them that believed that God could do this.
Wow.
And right, so that's one of the last stories we hear about Caleb.
And then we go further on down the line when Joshua now has become leader, and God speaks to Joshua, "Now is the time for you to take Canaan, because this is the land I promised your people." And that's where Caleb enters the story again.
And now Caleb, scripture says, right, is very very old and now is much older. And it would've been so many years in regards to when Joshua and Caleb first went as young lads to spy out the land.
Mm.
So that's the last we hear of Caleb, is when Caleb reenters when now it's time for them to take the promised land, and Caleb then says, "I want to have what's mine."
But he doesn't say that in, in a sort of arrogant sense, but he's like, "This is what God has promised me, and I'm going to step up and claim what he says."
Mm. Yeah, it's interesting to kinda note that because a few times in this conversation we've talked about, like, having injuries sometimes requires us to be really patient, having illnesses requires us to be really patient.
Sometimes, reconciliation of relationships requires us to be really patient. And it's super easy for us to get frustrated and to be like, "What's God even doing in this?" "Where are you? What's happening?" But as we see- Mm-hmm ... I think in Caleb and Joshua's story, like it took decades. They had to trust in God for a long time before they saw, results- Mm-hmm
or before yeah, anything happened. Yep. So, um, sometimes you have to be- Yeah ... mentally strong for a while.
Yeah, that's... And I love how you said that is because- I've found that times, and, and this is something that I've experienced in my life, is that there's certain times where, you know, God shows us a dream or a vision.
And I think it's a natural human tendency, we're like, "Oh, yeah, sweet." Like you want it to happen right now. But God's like, "No, no, no, no, no." Yeah. There's a whole lot of, there's a whole lot of forming I'm doing. And like you said, God's transforming you for when the time comes. Now, when the time comes, he's formed you and he's been with you throughout that whole period.
Just imagine if David was king straight away, like when God had called David, 'cause it's one of the most well-known Bible stories. When God had called David to be king, if David was king straight away, even though he had his faith and confidence in God, I believe it would've been a totally different picture for Israel- Mm-hmm because David was still young. He was still immature in the sense that, he hadn't had strong leadership skills and all of these things. So yeah, definitely when God was now giving the time for Caleb and Joshua. And something that comes to my mind, and I believe a lot of people that have experienced can resonate is at times God will delay the promise. He says not now, but he doesn't say it's never gonna happen. He just says not now.
Yeah. Awesome. I think that's probably a good place to land. Um, yeah, be, be patient and trust that he's got
Mm-hmm.
Well, thank you so much. For anyone who wants to read the rest of your story about your sports journey, your injury journey, and more on the story of Caleb, you can find it in The Living Covenant book.
Um, and the story is called Focused on Promises Not Problems. So very fitting to what we've been talking about today. But, thank you, SJ, for coming on and chatting with us. I think it's been a really practical and helpful, conversation for people.
Yeah. Thanks for having me, Zanita. It's been a awesome opportunity and pleasure and, yeah, I love what you guys are doing wishing you guys all the best with it.
Nice. Thank you