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If you look in the Bible, there isn't one mention of the word "mentor". However, you can find the word "discipleship" all over the place. As Christians, we're called to "go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20) But, if you look at mentorship and discipleship, aren't they really just two words that mean the same thing? After all, both involve life on life and a younger person learning from an older, wiser influence. So, is it just semantics? Join John and Zach this week as they pontificate about the similarities and differences of mentorship versus discipleship, what it means to be a faith-based mentor, and how we can be more intentional about discipling within our mentoring relationships.
Purchase John's Book:
Mephibosheth! The Search for Identity, Purpose, and Community
Purchase John's Book:
Mephibosheth! The Search for Identity, Purpose, and Community
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. Learn more at you can mentor.com or follow us on social media. You can mentor. Our main man, mister John Bernard has released a book entitled Mephibosheth, The Search for Identity, Purpose and Community. It's an amazing book and I know it will encourage you and your fellow mentors.
Speaker 1:While you're at it, pick up my book, You Can Mentor, How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission and Break Generational Curses. You can find both of these resources on Amazon or on our website. Lastly, follow us on social media. Listen to the podcast and share everything you find valuable with your mentoring friends. We're here for you, and we wanna add value in whatever way we can.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. You can mentor. We here at You Can Mentor are toying around with the idea of having a mentoring gathering or conference where mentoring leaders can come, get encouraged and equipped as they lead their ministries. Our goal in this is to create a safe and fun environment where mentors can share stories of struggles and successes while bonding together with their mentoring team and other mentoring leaders all across the country. If you lead a team of mentors and are interested in learning more about this gathering, please reach out to us.
Speaker 1:We'd love to pick your brain on how to create a gathering that best serves you and your team. Since this is our 1st year doing it, we want as much input as possible to create the best experience as possible. Thanks. You can mentor. Mentoring leaders, are you looking for a place to discuss important mentoring issues with other people who are passionate about mentoring?
Speaker 1:If so, let me introduce You Can Mentored Learning Labs, a monthly call with other mentoring leaders to support each other as we lead mentoring organizations and other mentors. Each call will focus on a topic and allow you to share as well as hear from others on the struggles and successes they have had regarding this specific topic. To sign up, please reach out to zachgarza@zach@youcanmentor.com, or find us on social media. Thank you. Remember, you can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome to You Can Mentor, the podcast for mentors about mentoring. I'm John sitting here with Zach.
Speaker 1:Yep. That's me. That's me, John. I'm Zach.
Speaker 2:I don't think that you I think that my energy level was up here and that you came in a little bit lower.
Speaker 1:You kinda sounded like an old man working at a carnival whenever you started out.
Speaker 2:I you know what? Step right up. Yeah. That That's true. I hadn't thought about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But I kinda do want the listener to feel like they are having, first of all, a great time Mhmm. With their friends and family. And that this is not going to be any kind of a bait and switch, but this is gonna be something valuable to them. And they're gonna they're gonna walk away with the biggest stuffed animal that we've got.
Speaker 1:Man, you really tied that in. We are the funnel cakes of podcasts
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. In the mentoring world. This this podcast smells like a funnel cake. It's so delicious.
Speaker 1:We need to pipe in that's that just funnel cake stank in here.
Speaker 2:Zach, our listeners are about to feast.
Speaker 1:On a just a 4 foot long corn dog.
Speaker 2:That's right. It's gonna be delicious. But they're gonna have energy. And it it it's not like eating a funnel cake or a corn dog. They're gonna have energy to go out and be relational and and live lives of purpose.
Speaker 2:It really is exciting.
Speaker 1:Man, we are just milking this carnival analogy right now.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to to talk about this. I think that you've served us
Speaker 1:some something really, really good. Podcast world, it's good to be here today. John and I just got done with a delicious lunch at this place in Waco called Schmaltzes. You've said that correctly. Yes.
Speaker 1:And, man, they make their own bread. Like, anyone who makes their own bread, I just just respect. You know? Yeah. I mean, you could go to the store, pick up a loaf, but no.
Speaker 1:They said, not in my house.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We'll bake it. That's good. That's fine. Is this is this episode brought to you by Schmaltz's?
Speaker 1:I mean, I I don't know if we can say that without getting sued, but I'm pretty sure they're never gonna find out.
Speaker 2:I would love if if they offered you, like, at least just half a sandwich per week
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:By mentioning them every now and then.
Speaker 1:Well, the people tuning in didn't hear didn't come here to talk about sandwiches or carnivals. Nope. They came here to talk about mentoring. Mhmm. So let's talk about that, John.
Speaker 1:I can't wait. John and I have had a very interesting last 2 hours. We have laughed a lot. We have poked fun at each other, and we have, more than anything, talked about the lord and mentoring. So that's what we're gonna do.
Speaker 1:Today, we're talking about mentoring versus discipleship. Oh.
Speaker 2:Now listen. Just can I ask a question? You just put verses in between there, meaning, like, these things are at at war with each other. Are are they, or are we just kinda gonna compare? What do you I mean, what's your overall mental image of how you feel like these terms kinda relate to each other?
Speaker 1:So this is it, audience. John and I will be the first to say we are feeling maybe maybe I shouldn't put words in your mouth, John. I am feeling inadequate, insecure, a little confused, kinda foggy about this topic, and I want y'all to know that this is an episode where I, at least, I have no idea where kind of where I fall on this. Well, I think I might have an idea, but I'm just gonna talk it out. So we're gonna need some grace here, and just we are having a conversation with you, listener.
Speaker 1:We don't come with the answers today. We're coming with the, hey. Hear us talk this out, and help us figure out where we stand on this. John, would you say that that's fair?
Speaker 2:I completely agree. And, again, I think that it's I think oftentimes it's more important what questions you're asking as opposed to what statements you're making. Those those have a lot more to say. So, yeah, mentoring and discipleship. Let's jump into this thing.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. So I get the question a lot. Are you mentoring, or are you making disciples? And the answer to that that I always give is this. Well, I mean, it's kind of complicated, and they're always like, tell me more.
Speaker 1:And I haven't really gotten down my, like, spiel yet, and so perhaps this podcast is a opportunity for me to solidify my spiel
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:If you will. Mhmm. So yeah. How about you, John? Tell me what you think.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I
Speaker 2:think that's a good start. I think that sometimes as we do define what mentoring is to begin with, something that I always want to make sure that the listener, that anybody who reads over the the the topic or anybody that would feel encouraged to maybe jump into a mentor mentee relationship, I want them to find it accessible. I think that for me is kinda where it starts. So it's understanding that that I mean, again, what are we gonna say? What are our last words gonna be on this podcast?
Speaker 2:We're we're reminding people that that they, in fact, can mentor. Correct? Mhmm.
Speaker 1:The name
Speaker 2:of this organization is the central truth of the three words, you can mentor. So as people gain their understanding of what what it means and how it's how it's fleshed out, we want to see people investing in the lives of young people. And so we wanna make sure that they understand that this is this is something that they can easily understand what it is and then grow in their understanding and and in their practice of it so that they feel like they are accomplished in it and that they're doing a good job and that they're successful and that they can encourage others to do the same. Well, I think discipleship at times or being a discipler or being a discipler has the propensity sometimes to feel like it might be a little bit overwhelming because it sometimes gets into the topics of theology. And this is where we start maybe feeling like we're a little bit less qualified to be a discipler because we wonder, well, wait a minute.
Speaker 2:Isn't that the job of my pastor, or isn't that someone who goes to seminary to get a formal education in order to be a discipler? Well, again, part of our conversation as well. I think that looking at these terms defined, having a little bit of comparison and contrast is important. But, also, Zach, talking about the relationship of these two terms is is, I think, going to be really empowering for our listener today.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, John. I think I just wanna start out by saying just a couple of things. 1, if you're listening to this podcast, you probably have a heart for mentoring kids, specifically kids from hard places. And let me be the first to say that the harvest is plentiful. The workers are few.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of kids out there who need a positive adult in their life, and I am all for anyone who is positive. Anyone who is trying to invest into a child and help them fulfill their potential. I'm all for it. And so I think that mentoring Okay. I think mentoring is kinda trying to like help a kid reach their full potential.
Speaker 1:Right? That that is the goal of mentoring. And so you can be faith based, or you can be not faith based, and you can still invest into the life of a child. I think the secular mentor will say, we want you to be a healthy productive member of society. We want you to follow the laws.
Speaker 1:We want you to get a good job. We want you to have a good family. But the faith based mentor, and we are assuming here that if you're listening to this podcast, you are either involved or you're hoping to be involved with faith based mentoring. The goal of a faith based mentor is different. It is to help them become more like Jesus.
Speaker 1:But I would also say that the goal of it is to help them fulfill their potential. So it's it is somewhat 2 fold. Yes. We wanna help you. We wanna teach you skills, and we wanna give you tools to help you fulfill your potential, but we also want to help you know and follow Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:And so I I might say This is Man, this is this is treading on thin ice here. I might say mentoring requires less than discipleship, but both are extremely valuable. But if you're following Jesus, the ultimate goal is you want your mentee to know and to follow Jesus Christ. Am I right there?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah. I think that you're right in thinking that you wanna be sensitive and choose your words wisely during this. And so and I would I would totally agree with you, Zach, on that and feel that based on my being a Christ follower, it is my desire that those people that I know in my life would also come to know that God loves them and that God has a purpose for them. So whether it's a friend, whether it's a neighbor, whether it's a family member or a mentee, Now then for those listeners that are not people of if if they do not have a relationship with Christ, we say, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, what what does that relationship look like? Like, what's what's the responsibility there? What's the hope there? And I think that we would agree to say that if these if there are those who are not believers in Christ yet who still see the importance of investing in another life, then these people can be effective mentors in such that they are seeking for their mentee to have a healthy relationship and and all the relationships in their life. But as we were talking earlier, you know, as believers, we read scripture, and that's where we find really our foundation and our the way that God communicates his love for us.
Speaker 2:Well, for that mentor who does not have a relationship with Christ, then they would probably look toward, as you mentioned, the law of the land and understanding that their mentee should be striving for just the a way of life that would be lawful and that would be healthy, that would be an encouragement to others as well. And so, anyway, without getting to, you know, the last thing that we would ever wanna do is just say, hey. This this episode is not for you or this resource is not for you. And I think that it's important, again, as people of faith for us to remember that there there will be those who will want to mentor and who do not have a a faith in Christ, and they still have much to offer in the way of offering healthy mentorship.
Speaker 1:Yeah. For sure. Yeah. As a follower of Jesus, I just can't help but go back to the bible, which I think is a good thing to go back to. As well we should.
Speaker 1:And I have yet to find the word mentor in the bible. Now we have stories of life on life. You know, you've got Ruth and Naomi. I mean, there's there there are a multitude of stories of an older person investing into the life of a younger person. But I think that there's there's one verse in particular when it comes to making disciples that I just can't help but focus in on, and that is Matthew 2819.
Speaker 1:And Jesus came and said to them, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. So that is as followers of Jesus. That is our call. To go and to make disciples.
Speaker 1:But then, you have this other verse. Right? You have first Corinthians 111, which is follow my example as I follow the example of Christ. And so, I think that is talking about discipleship. Yes.
Speaker 1:But that's also talking about mentoring. And so, John, you said something earlier. You said most mentoring is included in discipleship, but not all discipleship is included in mentoring. And I think that's that's a profound statement by you, mister John Barnard.
Speaker 2:Man, thank you.
Speaker 1:You're welcome.
Speaker 2:I think that it just kinda makes sense though when we talked about the practicality of life. Right? When you think about just for the day to day goings on of what of what a life looks like, what it means to be someone's child, what it means to be a student, what it then means to to grow into a situation where you you're going to have a career, and then what it means to grow into being responsible for your own family someday, what it means to to be in a marriage. And, again, each one of these stations of life and each one of these components that make up kinda who we are are are deeply spiritual matters. And I think that God, you know, has his fingerprints over all of them.
Speaker 2:But if we just look at them from a purely practical standpoint, okay, maybe even a temporal standpoint, if I can if I can put it that way, then, again, we see that the mentor has such an awesome opportunity to help direct, help to to speak into and to help inform the mentee when not only what they're dealing with at the time, but what what is also to come. And so we look at that with the what's maybe an integral part of that mentor mentee relationship outside of discipleship. And you made this point earlier, which is to say the mentor is typically someone who is older and has gone through the station that the mentee is now in, and so they can speak into that. They can they can inform work to inform that kind of phase of life, and that's what makes that relationship so powerful.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's a good point, John. Why don't I talk about these paragraphs that I stole from the Internet talking about mentorship versus disalversation? Nice. I wish I could say where I got these from.
Speaker 1:I didn't I I was I was in a hurry. And so I'm not trying to steal. I promise you. I'm just lazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And if you know listener, if you know where these these truths came from, by all means Yes. Let us know. We can give them proper.
Speaker 1:They came from Google.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes.
Speaker 1:But here we go. Okay. Mentors bring advice and influence on those whom they offer guidance. A disciple maker, on the other hand, brings intentional spiritual investment into their disciples' lives. I think that's good.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The next one. Both mentoring and discipling are relational in tone. Both offer advice or content to some degree. Both focus on helping someone else learn, usually 1 on 1.
Speaker 1:But there are some differences. One is that discipling is spiritual in nature founded and authorized by God and an integral part of his kingdom designed for growth. Mentoring is a tool of the bible used to help followers of Jesus through challenging situations or simply life in general. The purpose of being mentored is to have a wiser believer be able to help guide you in your life. They are a safe person you can confess sins to and be honest about with your struggles.
Speaker 1:They are a person who can speak truth from God to you and encourage you, along with being a person to listen to you. A mentor should be someone older than the mentee, who is strong in their faith and is wise. The mentor needs to be able to listen to the mentee, and truly hear what they are saying. They should be a listening ear above all else. So one thing that we talked about earlier, John well, is there anything that you have to say about those?
Speaker 1:Anything that kinda sticks out?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, you know, as you're as you're mentioning each characteristic, I'm thinking, yeah. I agree with that.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I don't I don't think anything kinda hit me in a place of saying, oh, I don't know. So I think Google's pretty did a pretty good job there.
Speaker 1:Awesome job, AI. Alright. So we said this earlier, John. We said mentoring tends to be more about skills and giving tools. Discipleship is more about identity and spiritual maturity.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Do you think that that one's easier than the other?
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah. I I think yeah. I think that mentoring's easier, because I don't know about you, or I don't know about you, listener, but whenever I start talking about Jesus, I kinda get scared.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I don't get scared when I'm trying to teach a kid how to shoot a basketball Mhmm. Or when I'm trying to teach them how to add. But whenever I start talking about Jesus, I'm like, oh, man. How is this kid gonna receive it? Am I gonna offend them?
Speaker 1:Are they gonna like it? Am I gonna use the right words? Like, are their parents gonna get mad? All of these things. And so, yeah, I think discipleship is harder, and that doesn't even take into consideration the whole spiritual aspect.
Speaker 1:The whole, like, as soon as you start talking about faith, you're you have a tendency to get attacked.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And because the enemy's perfectly fine if you teach a kid how to toss a baseball, but he's not cool if you start talking about Jesus, which that is something that I think that we cannot dismiss.
Speaker 2:Right. No. I think that spiritual battle really does need to be talked about and understood, and and I think that that's obviously a part of this a part of this relationship as well to know that that there are there is a spiritual nature to this. And when you are a truth bearer and, and a truth speaker, that it can there can be a struggle there.
Speaker 1:So, John, is there anyone in your life who you would consider a mentor who didn't disciple you, or are all the mentors you had, did they also disciple you?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that you I I will I will say this first and foremost. It was a it was a wonderful spiritual truth in my life to learn that God is as concerned about all the spiritual development and and truths as he is the right and I'm putting air quotes like the secular. You know, I think for some reason, when we when we begin to when we're when we're young in our faith, we begin to kind of differentiate. And we start to think that that certain days and certain moments are more important than others. So we start to think that, like, a Sunday morning is more valuable than like a Tuesday afternoon.
Speaker 2:Right? Because, hey, it's like, you know, it's the Lord's Day. We're told that. This is the day when we when we go to the Lord's house. We're we're at that that building.
Speaker 2:And so I'm I'm sure you probably had that lesson in your life and in your faith as well when you kinda realized, oh, wait. God is as concerned about me and and is desiring to be close and and and speak truth into my heart every day of the week no matter where I am. Right? Like, this is a this is a a a truth of our being a disciple, of of being a Christ follower. And so I can remember some really wise people in the church that were teaching me well the things of the Lord.
Speaker 2:But I can I can tell you that probably the biggest mentor in my life happened to be a Christ follower as well? And he was my youth minister who I I had the chance to quite often because his his home was kind of a like a like a safe haven for me. Okay. And this this is what was interesting. I wasn't really aware that I was being mentored in these moments when I would just wanna go hang out at Troy's house.
Speaker 2:But that's exactly what was happening because I would see how Troy would operate just just at home. This this wasn't the formal times of Bible study. This wasn't during youth camp. This was just Troy being at his house, you know, from from watching television to speaking to his wife, to working on something, you know, to to fixing something there at his home. I was just soaking up what it meant to to be a person of value and of worth, somebody that was a seated soul, who knew that they were loved and who and who lived their life on purpose.
Speaker 2:And so I learned I learned a lot from Troy in those everyday moments.
Speaker 1:So that you'd say you would put that under the category of mentor. Yes. Even though he loved Jesus.
Speaker 2:Right. Right. Because, again, these these weren't these overtly spiritual lessons. He wasn't kinda always tying in, well, you know, just like I fix the sink, you know, God fixes our hearts. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Not not everything was a Bible study. You know? Yeah. Again, it was just those day to day kinda mundane things of just how to how to have patience and how to communicate to somebody out of kindness, some things that I didn't see modeled in my own home. And so that's why they made such a big impact when it was just a guy being a guy.
Speaker 2:You know? And and I can remember going back and thinking, hey. I would really I I really hope that when I get the chance to to be a dad myself or to be a husband myself that I'll I'll communicate with the people in my life this way. And and I'll just even let the things that happen on a day to day basis. Like, I wanna respond the way he does, you know, in traffic, right, as opposed to kinda having some other unhealthy examples in my life at the time.
Speaker 1:But that's so fascinating. So you've got Troy, who's a Christian. But whenever he's at your house, he isn't discipling you. He's just living life as a believer, as a Christian, and so much more is caught than taught. And there, you were catching how he was living life.
Speaker 1:It just happened to be the way that he was living life was the foundation of that was Christ.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So fascinating to me because And this is the first time that I've ever thought about this. So this is me verbally processing this. I talk often, man, I've had so many people invest into me. And I'd say I probably have about 10 mentors. Right?
Speaker 1:But as I look back, I'm like, man, but really only 2 of those people truly discipled me. Mhmm. The other ones, it was exactly like what you said. I just watched them live life. I watched how they did the dishes.
Speaker 1:I watched how they spoke to their wives. I watched how they served their kids. I watched how they carried themselves, how they handled conflict, how they saw the world, how they were positive, how they apologized. All of these things, so much more is caught than taught. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And that is really what led me to the Lord, because I saw these people, and I was like, man, they've got something that I don't have. And it didn't have anything to do with the bible study. It didn't have anything to do with God's word, even though, please hear me say that God's word is is extremely important, but it was the aroma of how of of Jesus in their life that was that kind of got me like, man, I want to be like them. They've got peace. They've got joy, and I don't.
Speaker 1:And that really is what drew me into Christ. And then once I gave my life to Christ, I had this guy who was my own age, who said, hey, Zach. I feel like the Lord is asking me to disciple you. Would you want to be a part of that? And I said, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1:And he said, man, we just meet once a month, once a week, and we just study the bible together. And it was in that time that I learned how to read the scriptures, that I learned how to pray. Even though I heard the other people pray, I heard my all of my mentors pray. I heard them talk about Jesus, but this guy, this guy's name is John Kasemann, and John discipled me. Like, John sat me down and said, Zach, this is how you pray.
Speaker 1:I'm I now will pray. Now you pray, and let's do this together. Zach, this is what it looks like to dissect the scriptures, to hear from the holy spirit, to do these things. And so I think when I think of mentors, I think of guys like Bob Strader. I think of guys like Dan.
Speaker 1:I think of guys like Paul and like Alex and like Scott. But when I think of disciplers, I think of I think of John Kaseman. But then, I've got this guy Steve Allen, who is both. And that is a category that I don't even know what to do with, but what I'm going to call that is my spiritual father. So he is the one who kind of does both.
Speaker 1:He lets me live life with him. He lets me into how things are with his marriage and how things are going with his kiddos. He lets me sit at his table, but then he also intentionally teaches me about the ways of Jesus. And so that's that's kinda my story.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Mean, it's amazing. You you bring up a pretty good point of the practicality. And I think that if we're not careful, you know, you might say, well, mentoring is like deals with the day to day. It deals with kind of the general scope of life, kind of how to be a human being, whereas discipleship is dealing with the spiritual components of life.
Speaker 2:And, you know, you and I both know that the spiritual encompasses everything. There's no such thing. We're we are not walking around kinda like a a a pie chart where we're 30% or even 50% or even 75% spiritual. We are we are 100% spiritual beings, and so that spirituality goes to inform everything else about us. Correct?
Speaker 2:Emotions, the physical nature of things, the mental nature of things. And so we are we are about being spiritual. Everything is spiritual. Discipleship certainly is spiritual. Mentorship is spiritual as well.
Speaker 2:However, there's this really incredible relationship between the practical and the spiritual because one really works to inform the other. And I think that's when we're kind of firing on all cylinders when when as you realize or as you mentioned, you had someone who was who was a great mentor and a discipler as well. So it's almost a gift. I think that we can be in a really great place in our own faith if we understand that these mentor mentee relationships that we have are great vehicles for us to be able to address the matters of spirituality. And, again, to be a discipler, that that should really be the desire of our hearts as people of faith to to be one who is discipling someone so that that person can then grow as a disciple and then be a discipler as well.
Speaker 2:Because we're talking rivers here, folks, not lakes. We want we want water to be rushing. We want it to continue to be moving no matter what. The grace that someone has shown us is the grace that we can show someone else. And we would pray that that that person realize it doesn't end with them, that that that just continues to be something that is handed down from generation to generation.
Speaker 1:I also think that it's really interesting. Like, I'm sitting here thinking about, okay. Well, let's say you sign up to mentor a kid, and you mentor them for a month, and it's life on life. It is true mentoring. Like, so much more is God than Todd.
Speaker 1:You're inviting them over. You're going out to eat with them, and then you try to take it from the mentoring to the discipleship. You try to talk about Jesus, and this kid's like, no. I don't want anything to do with that. What do you do?
Speaker 1:I don't think you leave the kid. I think you continue to mentor them. I think you continue to show up. You continue to toss these seeds. You continue to knock, and you hope and you pray that the lord one day opens up that door.
Speaker 1:I don't think we should ever leave a kid because they're not open to the gospel. That doesn't sound very much to me like Jesus. But if they do wanna talk about Jesus, okay. Well, then it turns into discipleship. And I'm not saying that you need to force it.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying that you need to, you know, be super persistent or anything, but, you know, just from time to time, knock and just see what the lord does. And so I know this sounds complicated, but like, hey, if I'm hanging out with a kid, maybe 95% of the time, it's mentoring. I am teaching them skills. We're talking life. We're living life together.
Speaker 1:We're talking about what's going on in their life. But then, at the very end, it might be discipleship for 5%. And then after 2 months or so, maybe that 5% turns into 7%. Maybe after a couple years, maybe that 7% turns into like 20%. Right?
Speaker 1:And so I think patience, I think following the following the guidance of the holy spirit is very important here, because the thing about Jesus is Jesus pursued people, and he didn't force his way of doing things onto other people.
Speaker 2:Zach, so what do you think about let me just kinda set this up on the tee for you and see if it's something you wanna hit. Okay? Is there a difference between intentionality and agenda when it comes to discipleship?
Speaker 1:I don't know, John. I would say this I would say being intentional is being intentional to look for open doors. I would say that. Mhmm. I would say you should always be on the lookout.
Speaker 1:You should always be partnering with the spirit to say, lord, is there an opportunity here? Agenda is I don't care what's going on today. We're going to talk about Jesus.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That's kind of my way or the highway, but I always like to let the mentee and his attitude, his personality, what, you know, what is going on in his life, I always let like to let that lead. Mhmm. You know, if your mentee is having a terrible day, and he like is extremely upset, probably not the time to be like, hey, Let me tell you about what Colossians 3 says about peace. Right? But faith based mentoring, I feel like if you are a part of a faith based organization, whether it's a nonprofit, a church, and you have permission from their parents, I feel like you always have to be on the lookout for what God's doing.
Speaker 1:Now, if you are not mentoring with a faith based nonprofit or church or but you are a believer, and if you don't have permission from their parents, I think I think you just love them like Jesus, and you pray. Man, we I underestimate the power of prayer. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. And so just pray, dear god, would you open up the eyes of my mentee? Would would you let them ask me about you?
Speaker 1:Right? Because if they ask you about Jesus, well, then I think that you're good to go in regards to sharing about him. Mhmm. And so, like, I and, guys, can I'm asking for, like, a ton of grace here because I'm just spouting stuff off here. But, like, I don't know if I agree with the, like, let your life be the gospel and, if necessary, use words.
Speaker 1:Like, I think Jesus kinda asks us to use words, but at the same time, if if it's dishonoring to who you're serving with or it's dishonoring to those parents or if it's dishonoring to the kiddos, then I think that is your best option is just to live a life that looks as much like Jesus as possible. Love them. Be patient. Be kind. Have compassion.
Speaker 1:Be selfless. Serve. And then pray. Dear god, one day, would you open up the door?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. There's no doubt that that you can be living by grace and glorifying God no matter how kinda restricting that organization might be. If you're if you're working through a school system that is very clear to say, hey. You cannot bring up God. You cannot, I don't know, bring your Bible.
Speaker 2:I mean, whatever else. So I think that it's it's possible for you very much so to agree to those terms and still be making decisions and still be salt, right, and still be light in those in those hallways and in those meeting rooms. There's no doubt about that. But, Zach, you bring up that that saying, you know, that often comes up, and it always just reminds me of that important verse where Peter says, be ready to give an answer for the hope that you profess, but do it with gentleness and respect so that it's actually showing that our actions should and are meant to often predate our explanation. But as Peter says, as you're living your life, as you're forming this relationship with your mentee, as they're watching you, as your as your disciple if you're discipling someone, you know, again, as you're living your this life that is Christ centric, people will ask.
Speaker 2:They'll say, why on earth do you act this way? Why don't you say this when the rest of the world says this? You know, what is it? Why are you weird in essence? And that's when you can give this explanation to say, well, let me tell you why.
Speaker 2:Let me let me tell you why I'm different in this way. But, again, it's so funny that that Peter would would have said because it just sounds so modern. But instead of blowing it through a megaphone, do it with gentleness and respect with this consideration for your audience. You know? Know who you're talking to and have a sensitivity toward them.
Speaker 2:And that's that's a really special and and and important thing that I think we need to remember these days, especially as we're so prone to just say what we say online and and and kinda treat strangers the way that we do.
Speaker 1:I have always historically been pretty terrified to share the gospel because I don't wanna offend people. Mhmm. You know? And that's even in my in my not for profit. Like, I'm I'm like, guys.
Speaker 1:Like, yeah. You can talk about Jesus, but be careful, because we don't want to make him uncomfortable. Right? I had this guy in Houston. His name's Nam, and he is in charge of a foundation called Stoler Foundation.
Speaker 1:And every year, I would ask for some money through a grant, and he would have me answer a bunch of questions. And one question was, how many times have you proclaimed the gospel, and how many kids have been baptized? And it's just it made me really uncomfortable. I'm like, no, I'm not after numbers. I don't want to deal with that.
Speaker 1:Da da da. And he Nom kind of called me out on it, and he's like, hey man, have you asked? I'm like, well, no. He's like, how come? Because I don't want to make them uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:He's like, I encourage you to ask. What about kids being baptized? I'm like, yeah. None. And he's like, well, have you asked them?
Speaker 1:No. He's like, why not? And I was like, because I'm scared. And after that conversation, my heart was convicted, and we started to preach the gospel every week. We started to ask if kids wanted to be baptized.
Speaker 1:And in the last 3 years, I think we've baptized over a 100 kids, and it's all because Dom was like, Hey, look. If you're faith based and everyone's okay with it, you have to ask. You have to talk about Jesus. You have to give them an opportunity to become disciples and to be baptized, and I think he's right.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And so and so we're going to end here today on just a couple a couple questions. John, if there's anything else that you would like to say, please feel free to say it after I'm done. But if you are a faith based mentor, if you're mentoring and everyone's okay with it, how are you intentionally discussing Jesus? How are you knocking on that door of your mentee's heart? And just giving the Lord an opportunity to to show up and move.
Speaker 1:I think that that's a good question. If you're not doing that, what is your apprehension? Why not? Do you need more tools? Do you not know how to do it?
Speaker 1:Are you fearful, kind of like I was? And then the last one would be, as a Christ follower, are you praying for your mentee? Are you truly taking serious the call to intercede on behalf of this child of God? If you don't have the opportunity to talk about talk about your faith, or if the mentee's not okay with it, or if their parents aren't, then how are you asking god to show up in that? John?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this reminds me of something that we get to do through middleman. And as you know, we get to make skateboards. Right? We actually produce skateboards in a mill shop and everything, like gluing veneers together, having these boards pressed, having these graphics laid down on these skateboards.
Speaker 2:We're talking from tree to rideable skateboard deck.
Speaker 1:So just in case people don't know what is middleman, it is your nonprofit that you mentor with.
Speaker 2:That's right. Exactly right. So one of the joys of what we get to do is we get to make these skateboards and then go out to the skate parks, and we get to give these skateboards away. And this this model's grace, this allows us to value the skater in saying that you're important. Also, Zach, we get to come up with creative graphics that we put on skateboards because as you know, skateboard is kinda graphic in nature.
Speaker 2:Right? Did you ever growing up, did you have a skateboard?
Speaker 1:John, I'm 6 8.
Speaker 2:That's so they didn't skate make one large enough for you.
Speaker 1:That's offensive. And no. I didn't skateboard. We know this. You ask me this all the time.
Speaker 1:I don't skateboard.
Speaker 2:Well, I just keep hoping that your answer will change someday. So we probably have a listener out there who's who said, you know what? I did have a skateboard, and I can remember exactly what kind I had. Maybe they had a Tony Hawk or some other pro skateboarder that they can name besides him. Sure.
Speaker 2:Well, as you know, having the opportunity to to hand a skateboard over and then to even explain some of those graphics that we produce is a has has a really neat effect because it shares gospel that way. And that is a kind of a tie in in order to say, well, hey. What do you think about this? You know, one of our graphics is The Giving Tree, and so we get to talk about that Shel Silverstein book. Have you at least heard of that book, Zach?
Speaker 1:I haven't heard of the book.
Speaker 2:So it offers us the chance to talk about The Love Is Sacrifice. And this is a just a neat opportunity to connect in that type of even if it's just a even if I if I never meet this kid again, we almost get to have that mentor to mentee kind of quality of as one who is kind of bringing information and asking good questions and engaging to give them the opportunity to actually set the stage for them to respond and say, hey. Does this does this make sense of what I'm talking about to you? You know, what do you think about these components of of God so loving the earth, right, that he gave his one and only son and that that's kind of reiterated or maybe maybe symbolized in that graphic. But it gives us the chance to, as you said, to ask the question, to share the information, to share truth, and then to give them a chance to respond.
Speaker 2:And they may not be ready. And you know what? A lot of times, they're not because they just met you. And, you know, these days, it takes however many times just to just to learn to trust somebody. But it doesn't mean that we don't want to initiate that relationship.
Speaker 2:Right. And bring them to a chance to share who they are. And listener, it's a really wonderful thing and it's a great thing of respect when you when you can ask a person what their belief system is. It just is. You know, of course, there's a certain way to do it so that you're not sounding like you're holier than thou or that you, you know, have all the answers, and we're not looking to have an argument right there.
Speaker 2:What we are wanting to do, though, is we wanna connect with people. We wanna live our lives intentionally. We wanna respect others no matter what their belief system is. And we wanna live our lives out in front of these people so that they get the opportunity, if they do not know the Lord, to see what a life lived on purpose looks like and then for them to have the opportunity to ask questions and to and to seek him. Again, we we believe that the Lord is attractive.
Speaker 2:We believe that that the hearts of men and women and children desire to know truth and to find out who they've really been made to be. And so, again, we believe that Jesus is the answer. So why wouldn't we seek to to be intentional about those relationships?
Speaker 1:Dang, John.
Speaker 2:What's going on? I got did I get preachy there a little bit?
Speaker 1:I was kinda mic drop. I'm sorry. But don't drop them because these are kinda expensive. Yeah. I won't do
Speaker 2:that. Hey. You know what? It just isn't an amazing thing. I think sometimes the the very thing that we're burdened by or that we're scared by is the is the very thing that God desires to bless us with.
Speaker 2:You know?
Speaker 1:Of course. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Go into that school as you're walking up to the steps and you're thinking, you know, I get nervous just being in these hallways. These high schools and these junior highs just somehow sometimes do that. But even in that moment to say, lord, whatever you have for me, whatever conversation, however the conversation is going to go, be glorified in it, and just allow me to use this opportunity to to be a light bearer for you.
Speaker 1:It's all about relationships, my man.
Speaker 2:It really does come back to it, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:It does. And whether you're just mentoring, whether you are mentoring in the name of Jesus, whether you're mentoring with the aim of making a disciple, whatever you're doing, we just pray that the Lord blesses your relationship today. And that when kids experience you, they experience Jesus. And may the Lord open up hearts and open up doors for you to tell them the good news, the gospel, which is Jesus loves them no matter what. You came to save them.
Speaker 1:But take away, there's Amen. Awesome. Love it. So is it mentoring? Is it discipleship?
Speaker 1:Are we splitting hairs? Who knows? We just wanna love kids. Whatever it takes. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's why we say this, You can mentor. Do it in the carnival voice.
Speaker 2:Hey. Just a reminder, folks. You can mentor.
Speaker 1:You sound like Krusty the clown. See you.