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If you are seeking new ways to increase your ROI on marketing with your commerce platform, or you may be an entrepreneur who wants to grow your team and be more efficient with your online business.
Talk Commerce with Brent W. Peterson draws stories from merchants, marketers, and entrepreneurs who share their experiences in the trenches to help you learn what works and what may not in your business.
Keep up with the current news on commerce platforms, marketing trends, and what is new in the entrepreneurial world. Episodes drop every Tuesday with the occasional bonus episodes.
You can check out our daily blog post and signup for our newsletter here https://talk-commerce.com
Brent Peterson (00:01.07)
Welcome to this episode of Talk Commerce. Today I have Paige Kosinski She is the co-founder of Odyssey Entertainment Group. Paige, go ahead and correct me on anything that I got wrong in the intro. Tell us your day-to-day role and give us one of your passions in life.
Paige (00:15.784)
Awesome, I love it. Hi, I'm Paige. I'm one of the co-founders of Odyssey Entertainment Group. We are a influencer talent management company. I would say we used to brand ourselves as Boutique, but we definitely grown, I would say, more to mid-size with all the different capabilities and departments we have in-house now to service our talent. And then what was the question? thing... Honestly, passionate about all things creative. Initially, I think my spark for entertainment came from
Brent Peterson (00:35.406)
What is your passion?
Paige (00:44.894)
my love for playing piano and writing songs and now it's really neat that I can channel that into my career with representing creatives in all different facets.
Brent Peterson (00:54.232)
That's awesome. And I come from a creative family as well as my son just gave me a new keyboard. So he's bought a new keyboard and I got his old one. So I'm super excited to get back into playing the piano again. Paige, before we get started though, you have volunteered to be on the Free Joke Project and I'm just gonna tell you a joke and all you do is give me a rating eight through 13. So here we go. My son was just born.
Paige (01:03.724)
So cool. I love it.
Paige (01:16.342)
Okay.
Brent Peterson (01:19.936)
And another dad at the nursery congratulated me and said his daughter was born yesterday. He said, maybe they'll get married. I said, sure, like my son's really going to marry someone twice his age.
Paige (01:32.95)
my goodness, I like that. I'll give it a 10.
Brent Peterson (01:36.814)
All right. Well, thank you very much. All right. So Paige, we were in the green room. We were talking a little bit about influencer and how influencers influence people. Like give us a 10,000 foot view first of how you got into influencer management and then maybe give us the kind of rundown of your typical client.
Paige (01:56.62)
Definitely got into influencer management pretty organically. My co-founder and I have a background studying from the music industry. So we met at a startup that was kind of dabbling in all things, artist management, development, publishing, marketing and beyond. So our number one goal within that ecosystem was to break the artist and get their music heard in whatever way was possible.
and what was the most trendy marketing-wise platforms to do so. really with my role focusing more on marketing, I delved into social media. And in that timeframe, that was between 2017 to 2020, there was definitely this shift in how consumers were showing up and consuming media through platforms like TikTok, Instagram.
YouTube, all of those things. And we started dabbling in audio integrations. So finding ways for influencers to utilize the artist's music in the background. And that quickly opened our eyes to a booming creator economy that we were blissfully unaware of happening in the background. And we realized very quickly as well that our skill sets within the music world, when it came to specifically management and marketing,
could really translate well into this creator economy and we could help these talent that maybe have these businesses that are developing overnight find ways to monetize effectively, but also expand their engagement, community and their brand overall.
Brent Peterson (03:36.012)
Yeah, that's really interesting. You know, when you, when you mentioned music in the background, I've had this podcast for about five years now. And I know in the very beginning, we did use music and we got music off of YouTube or wherever. but a lot of times when you do publish it, I mean, I guess if you just publish it, you are theoretically on the hook for music that you've published, right? But also YouTube now blocks you and, or strip that out. talk a little bit about how.
maybe some of those rules have helped influencers.
Paige (04:08.703)
Hmm when it comes to music
Brent Peterson (04:11.086)
Using music, like music and inside of a podcast or something like that.
Paige (04:16.701)
I think there's been a lot of shift in music rights and also with monetization in the streaming era of how artists are getting paid through licensing. I will say what where TikTok first started as maybe dances and lipsync videos and all those things that incorporated music very heavily and also counter-intuitively influenced the music industry. It also gave way for a lot of
personality driven content to come through, which I feel like that's been the biggest shift in today's era where we're seeing a lot more face to camera, people vlogging, talking through their day and emerging stars coming from that as well. So it definitely varies based off of the creator and what their specific type of content that they put out is. Sometimes it's involving music and sometimes it's not, but it's interesting nonetheless to see that evolution, I would say.
Brent Peterson (05:13.198)
Tell us a little bit about the process. How do you match up an influencer with somebody that needs to be, or would like to get an influencer to help them to do whatever their goal is?
Paige (05:25.459)
Yeah, so I would say for us, comparatively to marketing companies, we reverse engineer that process a little bit because we're representing the talent. So we pull from our brand and agency relationships to try to pitch them to the brands that really they have the most organic loyalty to and their platform resonates well with. So the brand's getting mutual benefit to further immediate community and audience.
I've really always been a big fan of branding and whenever we had an artist that came on board in the music side, I looked at it as a blank slate and figuring out what are the things that make them them, what tones and stories kind of shine through their music and then how can we create a whole brand ecosystem around that. So I try to have the same approach when it comes to an influencer talents personal brand looking at all the things that make them them, the things are the most passionate about speaking on and how can we
build around that to have core content pillars and then brands that can easily tie in and they can have those long-term relationships with.
Brent Peterson (06:30.168)
When you're talking about artists and music, are you talking about the, say, maybe the music that goes along with a commercial or music that goes along with a story? that where you're kind of seeing that reside?
Paige (06:43.337)
Yeah, so when we managed artists, we were managing their whole career from end to end. So it was their music that maybe was on the car radio, traditional radio. was the songs people were listening to on Spotify. Sometimes they had sync placements. So what was showing up in commercials? The goal was to try to get their music heard and seen basically everywhere. So it was all of those mediums.
Brent Peterson (07:13.518)
From the influencer standpoint, like my thought on influencer and what we were talking about a little bit in the green room is that somebody is there to help you sell a product or somebody is there to influence you to buy or eat something. Is that the traditional role that you're serving or are you more geared towards the music space?
Paige (07:33.962)
Now we're definitely more in the creator economy. We still dabble, we have one musical artist that we work with from end to end for her entire career, which an artist's career can be very intense. It can be everything from their brand positioning to release strategy, helping them get in the right room with the right co-writers, finding their sound in the studio, planning tours, the list goes on. We definitely take a similar approach though with our influencer talent.
So now I would say for our influencer talent, the bulk of where they're seeing their business revenue come from is brand partnerships. So partnering up with any brands that are in alliance with what they're currently creating. So for example, a tech creator, maybe a long-term partnership with Adobe or...
a food creator, a long-term partnership with Betty Crocker. So we help try to make those matches on our side and find the right opportunities to plug and play into our creators' long-term vision.
Brent Peterson (08:33.186)
And what do you look for from a creator to pair with a merchant or with a vendor? What is it that they would have? Do they have a certain amount of followers or a voice or what is it they look for?
Paige (08:47.679)
Yeah, I would say in the early days, followers mattered a little bit more than they do now. Nowadays, when we particularly look for talent to bring onto our roster, we try to find talent that are bubbling up in the sense that they have an invested community, a specific community that they're tapping into and is showing up on all of their videos, commenting, sharing, they're finding value consistently in what that creator has to say.
And then additionally, that creator has long-term vision. So maybe even if they're just starting out, they have goals to tap into writing a book or launching a podcast or having a product. It's a little bit more than just the goal of having a one-off brand deal, but really that long-term vision that we can help strategically connect the dots for and build upon.
Brent Peterson (09:37.774)
Do you recommend then the creator sort of niche down on what they're really good at and work specifically on that vertical?
Paige (09:46.166)
I definitely think starting out, have to have one thing you're very passionate about so people have something to stick to. And you can also appear as an expert in your space. It's very helpful, but I've also found, you know, the past few years have led to the rise in the lifestyle creator. maybe the creator that traditionally would dabble in over 40 plus beauty now talks about fashion, motherhood.
fitness, all the things that make her her. And I think that's also really beautiful to see people's communities get invested in the holistic picture. But sometimes that has to come with a little bit of growth and stability so you can catch people early on with the thing that's important to them.
Brent Peterson (10:28.822)
Is there different types of, like, so you have different age groups of audiences and different people that consume different types of media. How do you, how would you deal with somebody that's a 60 over or 70 and over? there such an influencer in that space?
Paige (10:47.293)
yeah, we definitely have a niche on our roster where we manage quite a few Gen X creators and they're absolutely lovely to work with. Personally, some of my favorite talent to work with. I think it's interesting to see how that community is still showing up regularly on socials, what platforms that they're consuming on, as well as I think for me, I find a lot of joy in the educational component of that too, because you know, someone who's 60 or 70 years old didn't grow up with social media versus
This is something I've always known. So I find a lot of joy in the educational piece of kind of showing them the ropes and teaching them a little bit of the background when it comes to how to create and the why behind the creation. And it's really cool to see them run with it. And now they have massive platforms and inspiring people in their age demographic and beyond every single day.
Brent Peterson (11:39.663)
Do you encourage the influencers to test different platforms? And I can only think about like X was such a big deal and then it's really kind of faded. And I've had a lot more success on threads recently. Do you see different platforms serving different? mean, obviously they serve different audiences but some of them ebb and flow and sometimes you have to pivot.
Paige (11:54.624)
Nice.
Paige (12:04.861)
for sure. And it's interesting to the brands we're working with. The brand partners are contracting creators for all different platforms that they find to be priority for their demographic, too. It's our job as strategists to really be in the know of what each platform, what their algorithm is offering, how things are changing and how our talent can best show up there. So I would say for our talent, most of them are regularly showing up on
TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube first and foremost. But almost all of them are cross-posting on Facebook. Several of them have threads accounts or X accounts. So it's important to be able to tap into where their audience would most likely show up. We even have some in the career space who leverage LinkedIn or creatives who leverage Pinterest. So there's so much out there.
Brent Peterson (12:58.06)
What about the like, so each influencer would have a profile. Do you encourage them to build their, and I have a strong LinkedIn following. So I work on, make sure I work on my LinkedIn profile, but if I were to go, I mean, I guess I wouldn't really go into Facebook, whatever. Did you help them to develop that profile to help them to monetize it, I guess, or even get them to, you know, get the influenced.
product to be shown more.
Paige (13:29.983)
Yeah, absolutely. So big piece is building a personal brand first and foremost, and then finding ways to monetize that effectively. So there's some platforms that pay you simply just for posting on them. And then I would say the biggest piece that we're leveraging day in day out is brand partnerships within these platform posts. And then beyond that, there's affiliate revenue, there's product lines, there's
speaking opportunities, all sorts of things that a creator can monetize from their personal brand.
Brent Peterson (14:05.454)
I have some good friends that are public speakers and they've made an entire career out of that. Are there people like that that would cross over into the influencer space that you would encourage them if they have a strong, if they're making a living doing public speaking, should they be looking at more monetization for their own product or their own personal brand?
Paige (14:28.449)
100%. Especially if a public speaker who hasn't traditionally shown up on social is looking for more area for opportunity, face to camera and advice and educational driven content is largely what's dominating the platforms these days. So I could see a public speaker easily showing up on platforms if they had a level of consistency, being able to achieve a lot of viral success to then be able to.
integrate paid brand collaborations through social as a medium to monetize on top of their public speaking opportunities as well.
Brent Peterson (15:01.39)
have to ask about the face to camera. I just, I recently was just looking at an SEO, how do SEO video or how do GEO, whatever, one of those how-to videos. And it was the founder of a company speaking to me. And at some point he said, this is his avatar telling me. I immediately was disinterested in it. Are people spotting when they're using HeyGen or one of these other tools to generate that content?
Is it really, are you really saving that much time by using an avatar instead of just recording it yourself?
Paige (15:37.856)
Yeah, I honestly see a shift in as awesome as AI tools are to help assist us in our workflows. I think sometimes it can dilute some of the creativity that comes from face to camera content specifically or educational or inspirational driven content because I think people lose the value a little bit in that. We're even seeing on our side, a lot of brands are
you know, putting clauses in their contracts around the use of AI for creation, for branded assets and things of that nature. So I think with those things, it's finding the ways to use it in your workflow without it diluting your creativity.
Brent Peterson (16:16.418)
Yeah, I had a really interesting conversation this morning with a lady who was saying that, you know, if it's going to be AI generated, that hook still has to be compelling. Like that first paragraph of a sentence or your, when you first start talking, think TikTok is like seven seconds, right? That you, that hook has to be compelling and it has to be well-written. And if it isn't well-written, somebody's just going to drop it.
Are you seeing people recognize AI content, whether it's video, audio, or written, people are recognizing it sooner than later, and they're also then discounting that content?
Paige (16:56.137)
I would say so. I don't have a ton of personal examples just from what I consume, but I can imagine if I were being given a talking head on my page, I would probably immediately scroll past it so I could see other people having a similar response. I honestly, just tying that all in together, I think people have shorter attention spans than ever. So like you mentioned, having a really strong hook in the beginning and being impactful with your word is super, super important.
So anything that is going to make people drop off right away is probably not best practice for today's social media.
Brent Peterson (17:34.07)
If I tell a 15 minute joke and I have a channel on TikTok called the Free Joke Channel and people are dropping off after two seconds, is that something wrong with my jokes or do think it's something wrong with the production of the jokes?
Paige (17:45.738)
Hmm, that's an interesting point. This is probably the type of thing that I deal with all the time with chatting with creators. It probably isn't your joke. It's probably what is happening in those first two seconds that isn't getting people hooked. So it could be production value. It could be blank space you're leaving there. You never know.
Brent Peterson (18:08.362)
The, in all honesty, our YouTube joke channel is much better than our tick tock joke channel. So maybe it's just the audience I'm going after. what, what do you like? So just give us a, tell us if, if there's a person out there that wants to be an influencer, tell us how they get started and when they should contact you.
Paige (18:15.177)
Okay. Yeah. That could be true.
Paige (18:30.965)
Yeah, absolutely. So for creators that are just starting out, I think the biggest hurdle is just showing up consistently. I know that's the thing nobody wants to hear, that the secret is just doing it, but it's the same for starting a business, I would say on my end. The more comfortable you get with filming yourself, getting used to how you want to show up and where you want to show up every single day, the easier it gets to kind of fall in that rhythm.
And people know consistently where to find you and where you're showing up. So that's definitely a big piece to it is finding your rhythm with consistency and algorithms favor creators that are using their platforms. So they tend to reward that with placing you in more favorable positions. So that's a big piece of it. As you're building your community, you want to kind of look out for that consistent.
group of people that are showing up, commenting, sharing, and really nurture those folks by giving them consistent value, whether it be product recommendations, advice, educational tools, whatever you do on a daily basis. Typically for us, when we show up,
as management is when creators are at a point where they're actively monetizing. So they have business that needs to be managed. So for us, that would really look like stepping in to handle their existing book of business for brand partnerships, but also starting to outbound pitch them based off the relationships we have to try to drum up new business. And then thinking long term about their brand positioning, how can we expand upon the one-off brand deals to build into something that includes special projects?
social strategy and beyond.
Brent Peterson (20:09.154)
That's awesome. Paige we have a few minutes left and as I close out, I give everybody chance to do a shameless plug about anything they'd like. What would you like to plug today?
Paige (20:18.081)
Hmm, okay. I would say, Odyssey Entertainment Group is the name of my company. That's our handle on all socials. You can follow us there, but we have a creator who I'm really excited about. Her name is Erika Ver. Her handle on Instagram and TikTok is PeonyandHoney. She is releasing her Modern Manor collection with Wall Blush. It is a wallpaper line and it's coming out in two days. So April 30th. Maybe when you're watching this, it's already past.
So would love to plug her wallpaper line. We're really excited about it. It's a beautiful vintage looking collection that really embodies all things Erika's style. So check it out.
Brent Peterson (20:57.41)
That's awesome and we'll make sure we get all the links in the show notes. And as a caveat on that, we just bought a hundred year old house that has 1980s wallpaper in it. So maybe we would be perfect candidates for wallpaper.
Paige (21:10.409)
Yeah, that would be amazing. They are stunning designs. So definitely check them out.
Brent Peterson (21:13.646)
That's awesome. Paige Kosinski is the co-founder of Odyssey Entertainment Group. Thank you so much for being here today.
Paige (21:23.433)
Yes, thank you so much, Brent. Appreciate your time.
Brent Peterson (21:28.015)
All right.