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This podcast is dedicated to changing the automotive industry for the better, one conversation at a time.
Whether you're a technician, vendor, business owner, or car enthusiast, we hope to inspire you to improve for your customers, your careers, your businesses, and your families.
Lucas Underwood 0:00
Hit record a record that we want to talk about. We're
David Roman 0:02
going to talk about first Craig O'Neill from auto tax me
Lucas Underwood 0:06
where it's not auto text me it's all flow.
David Roman 0:10
Did you know it's always been? You get hold on. Oh, this is embarrassing
Lucas Underwood 0:19
completely clueless.
David Roman 0:22
It was it was Autoflow the beginning wasn't that
Craig O'Neill 0:25
you hired me? Yep. Okay, so
David Roman 0:29
hey what's up and he's now dropping auto text me the name and it's all going to be auto flocks.
Lucas Underwood 0:38
All right talks to me. Speak good. David. David. It's auto dogs now.
David Roman 0:49
Although dogs Yeah.
Lucas Underwood 0:50
told me not to dogs John firm.
David Roman 0:57
You know, he openly advertises that that's his Facebook profile. Buchan Buckaroo Bob or
Lucas Underwood 1:03
have you? Have you ever met Jedediah? Coco?
Craig O'Neill 1:06
I don't think so.
Lucas Underwood 1:08
You have now
David Roman 1:11
his name is John firm.
Lucas Underwood 1:17
So we were okay. We were in Las Vegas. Last Name property
David Roman 1:30
highly unprofessional. We are trying to do a professional
Lucas Underwood 1:32
we were in can walk. You're gonna make
David Roman 1:36
me go to the next room. This is ridiculous.
Lucas Underwood 1:41
We're in Las Vegas. Kim Walker walks over to me and she said hey, I need your help. I said okay,
David Roman 1:47
she said you this. This isn't an off the air kind of story. She says,
Lucas Underwood 1:51
Lucas, she said we've got this person that trolls us nonstop. Oh,
David Roman 1:57
hold on. Now that is not true. That is not how that could have gone. Is that how that one? No, it took you fluffing up the story.
Lucas Underwood 2:05
So Kim's like, there's this person. And when we did the breaks for breast thing that this person had all these things to say. And we were going to delete their comments. And we were going to do all this stuff. And she was just wondering if you like, I'm friends with this person. Can you help me figure it out? And strange for the person
Craig O'Neill 2:26
trolling?
David Roman 2:28
She's no trolling happening.
Unknown Speaker 2:30
No trolls? No. So she shows
Lucas Underwood 2:31
me the picture. And I just like melt dude, I'm just like, unravel. And I'm like anyway,
David Roman 2:36
revealing the the identity of this person was not the point. The point is that the comments were perfectly fine. It was not it was it was a somebody voicing their their distrust of that whole operation. That's all it was. But let's talk about Autoflow. Yeah. Jerk. distracting from what easier to do.
Lucas Underwood 3:05
We don't like I think everybody knows about auto flow by now.
David Roman 3:12
You think so?
Lucas Underwood 3:14
Am I right with you? That's my favorite picture. That tell me if that looks like Rick white to you.
Craig O'Neill 3:22
It does. Are you sure? Yes.
Lucas Underwood 3:25
Looking really closely.
David Roman 3:27
What am I supposed to do with this? Blow up this recording.
Craig O'Neill 3:35
Now I see it.
David Roman 3:39
Are you hungry or something? No, I just got an awfully loopy.
Lucas Underwood 3:43
I just love ruining your life. Craig O'Neill What's up, buddy? Oh, man.
David Roman 3:51
So are you like the last guy who only listened to the first episode and never
Craig O'Neill 3:56
heard? Several others? Well, if I appreciate that, thank you. He's the real deal conversations. I know that this conversation could go absolutely anywhere. Well,
David Roman 4:05
hey, go.
Lucas Underwood 4:06
And he knows that. That's just how we roll. And yes, we're going to talk about auto flow, because I am super happy with this new marketing module. In fact, he keeps telling
David Roman 4:15
me about this Marketing Module. And I'm like, I don't, I don't he's like, oh, yeah, I hope you get it set up. It's super easy to
Lucas Underwood 4:22
set. I'm telling you, I don't think there is a more complete ability to like select the client that you want to target in anything anywhere. Right? Like I'm telling you there is no dude, it is legit
Craig O'Neill 4:36
to turn it on and go. Yeah, dude, when we started going down the marketing path, I'm not a marketing guy. I'm not a marketing guy, right. I'm a shop guy that got into software. I have inspection processes. That's that's been what I teach. Right? Marketing, not my thing. So what do you expect when you have software that does marketing? We ran in this with the advisory panel a few of the guys that helped us design this. Would say Hey, Greg wanted Do a text blast, here's what I wanted to say, can you go in there and send that for me, like I can show you where you're gonna go to craft that and send it in. It's really simple. I want to be the guy to manage it for you, right? And we want a simple enough platform that that's not going to have to be the case. Well, and
Lucas Underwood 5:16
so a lot of other options have to be managed, right? A lot of other options. And so like, if you want to send something, you have to call and say, Hey, can you send this? Can you do this? You can do it yourself. But there's some complexities to it that you can accidentally send two messages, or you can do,
David Roman 5:35
am I operating off by 2018? Auto text? Me? I don't know what,
Craig O'Neill 5:39
actually, David, it's cloud based. So there is no updates that you actually have to perform. We handle that all for I'm going
David Roman 5:44
well, I'm saying Well, like I, I set it up in 2018, by the way, then never did anything with it ever since this
Craig O'Neill 5:50
is actually this is a point that that I five years, no five years in software, and I have observed shops all over the country and their behaviors, right. And their utility of their software platforms, not just ours, but even their shop management systems. And that is a trend all over the place. You're not alone in this. So take comfort in that. Right. You you get on board you get comfortable is this story we hear all the time? Yeah, of
Lucas Underwood 6:15
course. You just set it and forget it. Yeah. And
David Roman 6:17
it's just works. It's a little bit does.
Lucas Underwood 6:19
Yeah, but it's got dude, it's got so many new features that you probably don't realize it has. And because I'm friends with Craig, I'm always finding out about these new features. And he's like, Hey, did you know we did this?
Craig O'Neill 6:28
We webinars and we do emails, yeah, email, not a great way to reach shops, by the way, but it is also not dying. We can't get away from it. We won't get away from it for a long send emails
David Roman 6:39
dying.
Craig O'Neill 6:40
I thought so. I really thought like, this is garbage. But now I'm in my inbox all day. That's like where I manage tasks. Chris, who I work for, to remember something that you want to do. It's gotta be an email if you chat to him or something like that, or just verbally say.
David Roman 6:56
I was hoping Lucas with interviews and I said, Hey, if you want me to remember to do this, I've got to help me send me like yeah, you set it up in my Outlook. And
Craig O'Neill 7:06
so let me ask this delay. What would be the best way for us to reach a shop owner who's busy they do podcast during the day? They do work during the day they do everything right now
Lucas Underwood 7:16
call you call me. He just just call call my cell phone? Just call because like
Craig O'Neill 7:20
phone calls? God? Yeah,
David Roman 7:21
I do not call me. Oh, man. That's sort of the antithesis of I got upset with him because he called me and I got off the phone. I think I yelled at you. And I said this could have been a text. Thank you.
Craig O'Neill 7:34
Oh, sure. Yeah, okay. Okay. So there's a threshold where it goes from email to text to call or is that the hierarchy? Like yes, for some super passive text or something? Semi? Yes.
David Roman 7:44
I think the problem though, is that the like, I'm not trying to disparage your emails is that your emails are all very clever, waiting. Boring. And so
Lucas Underwood 7:58
does that hurt? That hurt? Did
Craig O'Neill 8:00
it can put more puns in I mean,
David Roman 8:02
no, no, no pun it up that go. I hate puns.
Craig O'Neill 8:06
Really? Knowing that is not a good thing to tell me.
David Roman 8:09
I just I think.
Lucas Underwood 8:11
Did you know what he loves? Do you know what he loves? Tell me his favorite thing in the entire world is when people give him compliments. Really? Yeah, he's
David Roman 8:19
weird. Why he loves what? What does that have to do with this conference? He loves
Lucas Underwood 8:23
compliments. Especially when you post them on his Facebook profile. That's anyway public
Craig O'Neill 8:28
praise. Yeah.
David Roman 8:30
Puns. He loves puns. He thinks they're hilarious. And so he'll say he'll throw ponds out there. And I just I need
Craig O'Neill 8:38
to spend more time talking with Dutch. Yeah, he's probably got some good ones. I know. He does. Yeah, for sure.
David Roman 8:44
What's the what's the appeal with puns? I don't I don't understand that
Craig O'Neill 8:48
language is by itself. Fascinating. You have
Lucas Underwood 8:51
to be intelligent David. That's something I mean, you are not.
Craig O'Neill 8:55
I'll tell you. I'll tell you why I can't stop. I can't turn it off for a few reasons. And one of them is my attention span audio learning even conversationally and also I have a face to talk to, like listening podcast. This gets me to like my mind wanders, My mind wanders, my mind will wander and a presentation or anything else. I'm looking for connections all the time. Sure. Something that makes me stimulated enough to keep that thread going. And yeah, dad jokes and puns. They work real good.
Lucas Underwood 9:21
So you lead into something I've got to ask about, right? Because we've talked about this before. You You went through Toastmasters,
Craig O'Neill 9:29
right? Yeah, still in real years now.
Lucas Underwood 9:33
So I'm curious because you do the puns
David Roman 9:35
at tolsma
Craig O'Neill 9:37
There are people better with puns than me in Toastmasters and they amaze me and I want to learn from them. Because they slip
David Roman 9:43
them in. Do they slip them in like the only the people that are into puns, like they pick it up? And they're like,
Lucas Underwood 9:49
Ah, that was a
Craig O'Neill 9:50
good one instantaneous. I can't actually on the spot. Think of many. It's it's only in a moment where Oh, yeah, that's great. And then people think you're super clever. But if you sit there and try to force me to think up something like that won't happen.
David Roman 10:01
Right? I just I think it's really difficult to slip upon in without it being like, overly obvious. Well, sometimes that's the fun, David, that making it overly obvious. Absolutely. That makes it less funny.
Craig O'Neill 10:16
Oh, no. Oh no. So that's the sense of humor that we have my brother's King for this. And now we were raised in a transmission shop for i 25 years I've had in this industry and the transmission shop. Look, guys, there's terminology that they have in that part of the industry, which we won't go into that have a lot of innuendo. Yeah, just a lot. Yeah, it was so obvious to us after enough years of being immersed in this kind of a culture that in order for it to be funny, we have to explain it to someone like they don't understand it. And then that was the better joke.
David Roman 10:45
Okay, what's your eye that that does? That would be funny, where you just make the assumption that they're idiots. And you go, let me explain this to you. What do you do in in very specific detail? I'm going to explain the joke to you. Yeah, ha. And that would be hilarious.
Craig O'Neill 11:04
You thought transmission shops were behind and you don't even get our jokes.
David Roman 11:11
That would be funny, but the actual Pong unless somebody would be would have to be standing up there just delivering Pong after Pong straight faced, for like, you know, 20 minutes. Oh, what was the the one two or three people picking up on it going?
Lucas Underwood 11:27
What was the one that the dude that? Remember, he won like some award or something like a couple of years back and he talks about the cigarette like they say Smoking kills. And he pulls the candy bar out. You remember that? And no. Oh my god. Nobody
David Roman 11:42
knows what you're talking about.
Lucas Underwood 11:43
I'll have to. I will have to. It was one of the Toastmaster awards?
Craig O'Neill 11:47
Oh, no, I he was like he was on stage like, a cigarette, then you'd like? Oh, they're watching?
Lucas Underwood 11:54
Yeah, dude, I'm telling you like
Craig O'Neill 11:57
that. That's a great speech. I can't think of exactly what his point was anymore. I just remember his whole life,
Lucas Underwood 12:01
right? And like the the ability to communicate everybody that I know, that's been through Toastmasters can communicate at a whole different level than everybody else. What's up with that? It's
Craig O'Neill 12:11
listening. It's actually it's listening. Number one thing, really being able to listen to people and you guys, you guys have this with your guests all the time. You're you listen to stories, and you listen with genuine interest probably most of the time, right?
David Roman 12:25
On the guest, yeah, sure.
Craig O'Neill 12:27
But this, everybody gets into Toastmasters with the idea that they're gonna get better at public speaking or just speaking and communicating in general. And the number one first thing it teaches you to do is listen better. That's pretty cool. It is cool. Yeah. And how do we do it? We do it through evaluation and feedback. So how do you give someone feedback on their speech? Well, first, and then what do you need to listen for? You actually learn the mechanics of what goes into some of this stuff. And once you have some of the recipe ingredients, you start working on those things piece by piece by piece at a time, not all of it at once. You're never going to master like get on stage and do one of those speech competitions that the guy with the cigarette? Yeah, there was a speech contest he was in. That's something that we're actually at my club back home. Next week, we start our club contest. There's a club level, there's nary level, there's a division level and then it goes state and then it goes national. And then it's world right after that. This is an international organization with that, like who does speech test? What
Lucas Underwood 13:28
dude, it's crazy. And I keep looking back at and I'm like, you know, if you want to, especially advisors, right? 100% How cool would it be to get advisors involved with this? All right, I think that would be awesome
Craig O'Neill 13:42
working on it. In fact, I was just talking with Carmen, the Toastmasters arm Kaprow. I don't know if you can mention rival podcasts
Lucas Underwood 13:48
like yeah, David mentioned him this morning.
Craig O'Neill 13:51
We all have current right. So we're gonna do is really what we're gonna do. So here's the thing. I saw him in the airport there on my airplane there. We had done an episode where we talked about Toastmasters. And one of the ideas after the podcast, you know how sometimes you have conversation with people for a while after you're all done?
David Roman 14:07
Yeah, for like, 20 minutes. Yeah, seeming the same five things you just talked to.
Craig O'Neill 14:13
So you know how that happens. Well, I was having this conversation with Carm. About, here's what we need to do. We need to start an automotive industry, automotive repair industry, Toastmasters Club, and what we'll do with that is we'll it'll be all online. And I was talking with Chris about it, too. So we're going to we're going to sponsor this right. We're going to we're going to do this and hopefully within the next 30 days, publicly here so now we'll have to like try to
Lucas Underwood 14:37
absolutely actually do it. Don't worry, it'll probably be like two or three weeks right
Craig O'Neill 14:41
to create that and what how will it work right. Since the sponsor club your membership dues won't be there. You can come as guest free anyways. But then once you do become a member and you want to do this once a month, we'll have an online meeting. Probably have some side meetings like what a sock does with their their dinners, have the Toastmasters dinner, and then we'll host a actual in person meeting at least once a year where people can come and do this and what's the goal? Well, the goal is to start being able to create this not just so that we have a big Toastmasters club that we're sponsoring or anything, but that it'll get people introduced to Toastmasters. It'll allow it to self replicate itself. So if it gets large enough, we can't have too many people in one, right? It wouldn't, we wouldn't even get past the introduction.
Lucas Underwood 15:24
That sounds like such a killer idea. And, you know, we deal with a lot of people and I talk to a lot of people who they say, Well, I don't go to those shows or I don't go to those trainings because I don't feel comfortable talking in front of people don't feel comfortable being involved and and so
David Roman 15:39
most people sign up for this than I think that the second
Craig O'Neill 15:42
out online risk free, right? I mean, it's pretty easy to just tune in over zooming. I know zooms kind of fatiguing after the COVID episodes we all had but this is this is an easy space
Lucas Underwood 15:52
man. It's it's the everybody I have seen develop so quickly. In Toastmasters, right? Like it is there's something about it that gets people to develop and gets them out of their shell a little bit. It's
Craig O'Neill 16:05
and I would call it there's the decision, right? When you go check out something like a speeching speech club to get better at speaking. There's a decision that's already occurred there, like you've identified a problem, or at least scenario you want to improve even if it isn't a problem. Most people told me, I thought you were pretty good before. Why would you? Why do you need Toastmasters? It's almost like saying, Hey, you're a good tech, why do you need to go to training? Right? We always need to improve. And if you don't keep improving, you stagnate. And that's true. And no matter what not a little different on that analogy, obviously you can think the technician of course, we have a situation where Yeah, cars changed, speaking hasn't changed much. So what how have the mechanics of speaking, changed that I know it's not it's just that you're it's a muscle like anything, it's probably better analogy to equate it to working out if you are not practicing on a regular basis. You're not going to stay as good as you are. I was a martial artist for years. And I say was right now because I haven't been in a dojo for years recently. And I don't think I could go through all the same causes that my muscles remember going through the muscles, even if they remember, aren't developed the same way that they were when I was doing a couple times a week. Yeah, right. Any muscle fatigues. And it's a skill, just like anything else that can fatigue, your ability to communicate.
Lucas Underwood 17:29
And so what's your been your biggest takeaway so far? I mean, like, I have watched you develop through it. I guess, you'd been doing it before we met. We've been friends for
Craig O'Neill 17:39
about three years now. So probably met you just a little bit before. Yeah, yeah.
Lucas Underwood 17:43
I mean, I've watched you develop and watched your even your speech patterns change in what you're doing? What What were the biggest takeaways for you personally,
Craig O'Neill 17:51
the biggest one for me is that due to the practice, and I go almost, almost without fail every single week to make them we have a weekly club. And that practice has allowed me to develop the ability to think more clearly, while I'm talking, I was the kind of person I could go every direction, and I still can, I can relax, and just go wherever I want to go and lose my train of thought. But it would be a train, you can even call it a train, there are no rails. It's just tall grass, and you're lost. Right? I would lose people very easily just, I think my early success I could attribute to one thing. And that was I was passionate about what it was that I was talking about that passion will carry you so far, at some point that passion needs to get tempered into clarity, and a clear purpose.
Lucas Underwood 18:42
And dude, you've nailed that. You really have. I mean, was it was it all
David Roman 18:47
the story you get frustrated with this one here? I 100% identify with Absolutely. Everything you said, if you're going to get up and get do a class, there has to be structure in your thought process in your patterns, you want to deliver it a certain way. You don't want to go off in tangents. You don't want to go down rabbit trail, what class we do the class service advisor class. And although I mean you don't want knock the guy he told a lot of stories. Stories are good. He was a good storyteller. They had nothing to do with the class. He would like oh, yeah, back to the class. Oh, we got into the story. And then we'd go off on another story. And the stories were great that he was there to deliver the class and so you wanted make sure he got down material. But when you're standing up there in front of somebody or a large group of people, you want to make sure that you're you're right, I like I have to slow down the thought process. And I gotta go back to my notes. I'm not reading notes. I've got I'm pretty much in my head but I know I got to hit these bullet points. Yeah, I've got to hit these markers in my head and I'm going okay, I'm gonna go here and then here and here. You have the slow way down. This Dyngus he wings it because like, oh no Oh, no, I'm just gonna wing it. What are you talking? You cannot wing it. You cannot?
Craig O'Neill 20:05
Well, the thing is, David, there's a balance of it too, because you can't just wing it. And you can't just have the bullets. It's this perfect balance of the drawings. Because if you
David Roman 20:14
don't want them verbatim No, no. If you do, it sounds overly prepared. Yes.
Craig O'Neill 20:20
And what the goal is, is not necessarily to give the audience some but get the audience engaged in their gauged, they're going to get it. And if the audience starts going somewhere, you go with them. right through it. Yeah, you have to read the room. That's why you don't want to reel it back to
Lucas Underwood 20:35
I think for me, though, is that that was never my intent. Right? Like, I never wanted to be a public speaker by any way. Right? Like, it's not. It makes me anxious. I don't want to do it. I'm not good at it. Right. And so
Craig O'Neill 20:46
refined your southern accent to perfection, just
Lucas Underwood 20:49
by Yeah, so I can, you know, look about talk long enough. He'll like slowly, you know, kind of fade off over here. And he'll almost fall asleep. So we can just talk and have a conversation without these rude interruptions.
Craig O'Neill 21:02
That was so great. And you didn't intend for it to be used in the public.
David Roman 21:05
I think I did fall asleep on a podcast episode once.
Lucas Underwood 21:08
Now. He did swear to God, swear to God, like it was gonna do and I was. I was mad, because I was like, so
David Roman 21:18
I remember falling asleep. We're almost falling asleep. It was it was raw. It's like
Craig O'Neill 21:23
had I listened to one of those like
Lucas Underwood 21:25
we had, we had been arguing that day. So I thought guys, I thought that he was I thought he was just being a jerk because he was pissed off. And I'm like, Dude, I'm having to I'm trying to fit this one from, like, ground up. Right? And this is a heavy carry, right? And you know what I mean by that, like, you got some people you have to work with and you have to keep the conversation moving. And you have to, and like, dude, I'm, I've talked so much that my throat is sore. And I like I'm trying to gasp without like, sound like I'm gasping you know? Sure. I'm over there. And I'm like, I finally hear something. I'm like, homeboy snoring. Swear to God, that is that noise. That's what that is.
David Roman 22:07
I do did one live. We were doing one live at an event. Oh, yeah. And you were nodding off? And I was No, no.
Craig O'Neill 22:16
They were in front of you. Man, well, I feel really good that you guys are both awake right now. Right, like
David Roman 22:27
20 minutes in the air. Let's not let's not get too excited.
Lucas Underwood 22:31
But but you know, back to what we were talking about. I, I, I never like I'm nervous on stage. And so I have to wing it. Because my problem is, is that if I try and prepare if I try and practice it out, then I'm putting so much pressure on myself that I'm trying to hit that mark. And it backs me up, right?
Craig O'Neill 22:50
Well, Toastmasters is great in that regard, too. Because you have one half meeting, it's planned speeches. The other half the meeting, it's impromptu speaking called with a session called Table Topics. So you get the impromptu component. Impromptu is 90% or greater of our speaking experience. One of the topics though, random sometimes completely. Sometimes, David, there are puns.
David Roman 23:12
Here's here's the issue though. It's a topic that I have a lot of interest in, or knowledge in. I can wait. I can wait. I can get up there. And I can
Craig O'Neill 23:23
Yeah, silly or topics would be hard though. Right? If it's thing. I can talk about
David Roman 23:27
some really goofy stuff. It's that's not the issues. I kind of know the topic. Oh, yeah. But actually, when
Craig O'Neill 23:31
you're in a true life, speaking opportunity, where shouldn't prompt you? You wouldn't speak up unless it was something you were there to talk about. A group of people talking about a thing you cared about? Mostly? No.
Lucas Underwood 23:42
I mean, look, I'm for the most part, I'm okay. As long as I don't have to be an auctioneer. That sucked. I had to do that. Yeah, remember ASP last year. And they they wanted to auction off a bottle of liquor and nobody told me about it. And so they're like, Hey, you got to auction this off? And I'm like, I got it. What? And then like,
David Roman 24:00
Lucas, you talk good. Get up here.
Lucas Underwood 24:03
And then I'm over here. You know, David's got to announce the prizes. And not one person that he announced was in there.
Craig O'Neill 24:12
So they didn't when you keep going, right?
Lucas Underwood 24:14
Yeah. Well, I mean, like they set them all aside, because I don't think it was communicated well enough that like, Hey, you're you gotta be here to win your prize. And so
David Roman 24:21
well, then they ended up sending them out.
Lucas Underwood 24:23
Yeah, they mailed them off to everybody.
Craig O'Neill 24:24
It's really kind. I would have given him somebody in the room. Right.
Lucas Underwood 24:28
I think it was just us in the room by the time we got
David Roman 24:35
back, both good. Go get back fix. That'll be fine.
Lucas Underwood 24:37
Yeah. Oh, no, it'll be great. It'll be all but
Craig O'Neill 24:39
this is the thing though. Like shop owners life that their speaking ability with their team. It's not just speaking by the way that Toastmasters is leadership skills as well. And there's whole pathways. There's whole curriculums that you do with that. And this is where I do feel a lot of people especially in the independent shop world, we've developed very relaxed culture in terms of some professional course, yes, very much. That's not always healthy. It's very healthy. In some regards, because we don't want a stiff environment or anything and Toastmasters. There are some clubs, I've visited that little stuff. I don't like that. That's not That's not our style, our clubs pretty, pretty laid back. But the main point is, you have a communication style that is affecting other people, Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. I picked up the one for How to Win Friends and Influence People in the digital age. So it's no duh stuff. Of course, it is really like, yeah, social media, people going out there likes and trying to get likes, they're waiting their cell value with that.
Lucas Underwood 25:38
And what I connected with was the simple little mistakes people had made the fact they put that in there. And it was crazy, because what ended the very end the story about the celebrity that like, said something that was misinterpreted, just the wrong way. And it was like it was careering, because
Craig O'Neill 25:54
perception is reality, right. And so when somebody has perceived the way you said something as what it is, and this happens all the time, digitally, now auto text me we're dealing with text messages a lot, and we're teaching shops, how to do this stuff. One of our conversations we just had with Malloy business development group to was humanizing digital communication, our most recent webinar, and the whole concept behind that, of course, we had the chat GPT stuff coming up, and everyone's freaking out about chat. GPT, you guys, it's not creative, it's generative. It's only taking things that we've already said and replacing it with, with the data that it has whatever. The thing is, though, with, with text communication, it is going to be read from how they on the other side are currently at. And you don't always know unless you've already established a relationship with this individual. And I I've run into this where I'm doing the shop owners that aren't even texting people still out there, guys, lots. Yeah,
Lucas Underwood 26:47
absolutely. Dude, do you know how many shops that I have talked to or been into in the last year that have paper repair orders?
Craig O'Neill 26:54
Oh, they're still out there, too. Absolutely. Yeah. And I don't want to criticize it. Like that's, that was my upbringing. Yeah, I, I've been there too. And I know it works. I do. I also know why some other things are the more efficient, but here's the thing with texts, right? I would hear this from shop owners like, well, you're trying to get me to not talk to my customers say? No. Like I was talking with David earlier, like, that should have been a text that should have been a text instead of a bell,
David Roman 27:17
that would have been appealing to me. So you don't want to talk to you. I don't
Craig O'Neill 27:21
depends how introverted your front counter is.
Lucas Underwood 27:24
This one's pretty introverted.
Craig O'Neill 27:26
But no, like, that's like you were saying though, that should have been a text. Don't call me with that. That is what auto text me is trying to do for you. We are simply trying to take the things that shouldn't be a phone call, and let you be able to handle that with texts. Because we want the phone call to be the relational piece of the conversation, the part where you're doing what humans do best.
Lucas Underwood 27:47
And you know, it's it's crazy, because you're talking about the training you did, or the webinar you did the other day. And I remember reading an article a while back about how humans communicate via text. And it's not the same way that we communicate when we're standing. And for instance, I was reading an article and it was talking about the professionalism of emojis. Yes, and yes. And talked on this, right. Yeah. And like how just putting that emoji in there can can make sure that you don't send the wrong message? Yes. Because we don't we're tone deaf. And but it
Craig O'Neill 28:16
doesn't, it does not have a reputation for being professional. When you start putting emojis and things you won't see it when you're talking to larger organizations in the area of corporate negotiation, or whatever lawyers I'm sure especially divorce lawyers probably never use any emojis in their correspondence with their clients at all. Because there's a serious level of conversation this that are the medical doctors, but well, how important is bedside manner for a medical doctor? Yeah, those are the ones that don't get sued. If you're doing digital correspondence with things, you got to put some, of course of your humanity into that message. And you can get there with language. You can choose words and grammar and punctuation or all that stuff. But there's another format for digital communication that is by its nature less formal, by its very nature, it's not going to be as well structured, especially in a text message. I'm I'm a one finger typer guys, right one finger, unless I have it on a nice computer system, like auto flow, and I can type in my keyboard and my workstation, texting for me, I don't love it. I would rather leave a little voice message or something like that in the thread, one of those sort of things. But that's why we have this broken format. You guys remember you guys were about the same generation, I think and so you remember the phones that didn't have QWERTY keyboards, right? I
Lucas Underwood 29:32
do. Yeah. Hi,
Craig O'Neill 29:35
how many buttons did you have to press? Like Beep beep beep beep beep beep
David Roman 29:39
really fast
Lucas Underwood 29:40
the TV too. Yeah.
Craig O'Neill 29:43
For the messages weren't dramatically structured and no one expected, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're not gonna go through the time to put a comma in there. No, no. And I
David Roman 29:53
do on my text messages now. I do too. Now. Yeah. Otherwise you end up with a Volker, you were just complaining about this earlier, you gotta block a text, no punctuation, no capitalization. How many words are wrong?
Craig O'Neill 30:08
It's terrible. Like, home? Do you even read it in? Yeah. And it's probably gonna be the tone that you last saw that person at or where you're at right now it's one of those two things depends on the personality. I know people, they will read it the most negative way it could possibly have ever been constructed, which would be a completely different meaning than what was intended, which would have been very positive. And some messages are abstract enough that that's possible to have a different opinion. I'm all
David Roman 30:32
for not bothering to put punctuation and things like that they probably left that pretty loosey goosey on interpretation. Yeah. And that's even if they got the idea across, which most of the time they did.
Craig O'Neill 30:43
And this is where even planned speeches come in with Toastmasters. Right? You have a certain way of constructing a speech, a certain way of constructing a thought and you practice it and you have the feedback, the people that you're talking to, to understand how they received that message. And then you sign in. Wow, that's what you got out of that. Interesting when you get an evaluations on a regular basis, all those things come back and improve. This is this is useful in every form of communication, we do it some text evaluators is what we need now.
Lucas Underwood 31:11
You know, I was getting ready to ask if this means that we're gonna get voice messages on auto text me that we can send our clients because you know me, I'm like, why not? Dude, every message I say,
David Roman 31:21
No, I don't know. I don't know.
Craig O'Neill 31:24
Because it's better than voicemail. If you can get it in the text thread. I don't make me go dial into my voicemail box. If you leave me a voicemail, I hate
Lucas Underwood 31:32
I do too. I do too. And I like every time I land,
David Roman 31:36
hold on, hold on, how can you hate voicemail, but also send 85 voice texts? It's so different than the only reason why I send voice texts is because I'm driving.
Lucas Underwood 31:46
There's only one rule with voice text. There's only one rule, do not go over 45 seconds.
David Roman 31:54
60 seconds.
Lucas Underwood 31:54
I know, I'm just saying like that they should never have taken that limit off. I know the
David Roman 31:58
62nd limit. It should because you want to be able to break it up into sections in the 17 Minute voice text and you're like,
Lucas Underwood 32:06
This is measurable.
Craig O'Neill 32:07
I also think it should be, hey, I have a response that BS your fi speak it and maybe text the permission from the person that you're going to send it with that work for you. Because they might not be in a position to listen to it. Right? It depends on the party that you're talking with. If it's David, he doesn't want to hear it.
Lucas Underwood 32:21
Right? Well, I mean, David doesn't really want to hear anything. He's just he's gonna be negative just to be negative, like we call him negative,
David Roman 32:28
negative. Was he I tried to I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to be as as what's the word I'm looking for? When I'm reading, they're text.
Craig O'Neill 32:45
optimistic? No,
Lucas Underwood 32:47
he's never optimistic. That is not something that's in his vocabulary. I'm not even sure if he knows what it means.
David Roman 32:55
Not generous, there's a word. I just can't think of it. Well,
Craig O'Neill 32:59
here's the thing like Dale Carnegie stuff, again, the three C's in that book, do not complain, do not criticize do not condemn, right. So
David Roman 33:08
90% of my texts
Lucas Underwood 33:11
90% of you, what are you talking? About? 85 Maybe,
Craig O'Neill 33:15
just really hope everyone could see the look that Luke is just saying, David.
Lucas Underwood 33:21
I mean, so So here's the thing is, is when we, when we talk about the voice chat, right, or we talk about voice messages, one of the things that I want to be careful about is that the 62nd rule forced us to be concise, it forced us to be clear, it forced us to to be able to form small points, right. So the 62nd voice message, in reality is you taking and making a paragraph, right? That's one of my biggest beefs, because you read a post in a group, and it's just like a solid line. And we had, we had four people leave a sock, because we had to say, like, Hey, buddy, like, I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. And I really want to be nice, and I want to help you. But you've got to break this up a little bit. And they would get mad, and they would storm out and they would leave. Don't make fun of the way I typed. Don't make fun of the way I talk in this now. And I'm like, No, I'm not trying to make fun of it. Yeah, but yeah, if people can't read it, if you can't discern the point you're trying to make. Yeah, so taking those voice messages and making them 60 seconds. What do you do you form a thought, boom, that thoughts done?
Craig O'Neill 34:21
It's interesting, too, because some other things happen there, too. You had feedback to provide someone that you were interested in helping, right. And they took it a certain way? Yeah. And there's I give them
David Roman 34:32
feedback and snarky comment. Okay, so So are you yelling with the all capitals but they were just you know, they have caps lock on?
Craig O'Neill 34:39
Yeah, that's, that's like a full pot in this world. Now, you don't do all caps anymore.
Lucas Underwood 34:44
Unless you're a service advisor. It listen, I can tell you, the service advisor, you can tell if it's a service advisor or not, because like, people get on Reddit and stuff, and they're like, I'm a service advisor. You're lying. We were
Craig O'Neill 34:58
the auto tech cloud. Next group, there are one of our newer clients that asked made a feature request for like a callback. Yeah. And so a couple of people kind of jumped on it. And I don't I get why they're asking it. So I'm always going to advocate for people in any context. And I also understand why people were poking fun at it, too. Yeah, right. But if you ever had to do it on your mobile phone, and I realized this slowly, but the only way to do it on an apple with the keyboard open is you have to use one hand to hold that shift button. It's not like an Android. So my guess is he's probably an Apple user. I can't double. I don't maybe I'm a bad apple
Lucas Underwood 35:35
user. Double tap, doubletap shift and see if it'll stay double tap
Craig O'Neill 35:39
shift and see if it stays what? How? No, it goes back to does it really? Yeah, no, I have to hold down. Maybe it's a setting somewhere. I have to hold that down. But that forced me to do something with my thumbs that my generation I'm not comfortable doing. my thumb's are like, Dude, I did transmission r&r for too many years in my career. I don't think the joints on my thumb's can do what the kids can do these days.
Lucas Underwood 36:04
Well, I mean, so. So. How do we write because you mentioned the way that I communicated with that man, right? Yeah, yeah.
Craig O'Neill 36:14
How they received it though, too. Right.
Lucas Underwood 36:17
And I did the I did the positive emojis. I was very kind. I used emojis. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I like I worked really hard and say, because you're a nice guy. Well, and he dude, he
David Roman 36:28
got here's the deal. And poor Lucas here. Don't get upset. Don't get thrown throw water me again. His when he's nice. He does come off as passive as passive aggressive.
Craig O'Neill 36:39
Now I struggle with that, too. I do. Yeah. I do it. Like not my intention. Not your intention. Right. Oh, yeah. Never the intended behavior. Well, yeah, definitely.
Lucas Underwood 36:49
Sometimes, especially when it's David. But I mean, to me, the thing is, is like dynamic, I think that part of the reason is, is is, in some sense, people are not used to people who really want to help them. Why do you want to help me,
Craig O'Neill 37:03
we don't know how to receive the feedback, right? We don't have practice receiving feedback from who people who genuinely want to help it and how to take that Chris came to me after I was I was actually in a conversation with a at the time they were a client, and they had four, four shops. I was new to Autoflow. At the time, in the meeting, was Chris kludi, eight, Jeremy O'Neill, who was their coach at that time as well. And then the shop owner and all of his managers and Chris had me give my spiel on something and I was still immature enough at that point, this basically the story that prompted Toastmasters is recommendation, right? I was immature enough to the point, like my focus in that meeting was to impress everybody in there with what I knew. Right? That's basically how it was coming across to someone like Chris, who's very experienced in there, but And so he's sitting there, and we've talked about this before. He's like, okay, alright, stop talking. Now. Stop talking, though. Right? Stop talking now. He's still gone. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And so I didn't have that awareness of there. So getting that feedback from Chris here. I think you should go to Toastmasters. And here's why. I could have done one of two things that feedback. I could have been like, you know, Craig O'Neill back in the transmission shop, the 20 year old guy, and you know what? No, I'm awesome. Screw you. Right, exactly. Listen to this. Ah, right. That could have been the response. But we're understanding Chris and being a personality like mine, I do want feedback, to want to improve.
Lucas Underwood 38:33
You know, we've got some guys that we've been working with who really want to share their perspective of the automotive industry, their technicians, right, yeah, working with them. And I'm like, today, I had a long conversation with my friend, Jeff. And I'm like, Hey, you're going to be talking to somebody who's not an automotive technician. You're going to be talking to somebody that you like. Not even necessarily that profanity is bad, but like if every other words a curse word, yeah, it's not going to be perceived as and I said, what you're gonna do is you're gonna hurt your calls, by accident. And I'm not and he's like, I am who I am. It's not about you, being who you are. And interesting. It's about communicating clearly, so somebody else can can buy into what you're talking about. And this is somebody who, who he's going to be talking to who isn't in our industry.
Craig O'Neill 39:23
I am who I am. I am this way. I want to be better to give study. Yeah, I want to be better. I'm on a journey. Yes. The whole point.
Lucas Underwood 39:31
Oh, dude, you brought that up. What that? The the video I was talking about earlier, the Tim kite video where it's all about the mountain of average. And one of the things he says in there is he said that, that employees or your people, one of the things that they they see is and I can't remember exactly how he worded it. He said leaders do two things and he said one of the two things that they do is they are honored Journey, right? And they're taking people on a journey. Yep. And he said, if you're not taking your people on a journey, then you're not leading. It's selfish. Yeah. And if you're taking your people on a journey to somewhere, they don't want to go. Right. And so it really spoke to me because, as opposed to, as opposed to showing up and going to work, every day was a journey. We're headed somewhere. Yeah, we're going to accomplish something. Oh, yeah. Right. And man that I think that is the most powerful moment that video if you've never watched it,
Craig O'Neill 40:33
no, I should. I regard my experience is now in these last five years outside of the shop. I wish I were still in the shop. Sometimes with the knowledge that I had right now. Like, even the family business, like one of my big things was like me, my dad, grandpa, especially grandpa for a lot of reasons. And my brother to intervals before we learned to work really well together, we weren't just bumping heads, all the time, our communication skills were garbage in that that was my fault, as well. And it's so easy to you've probably stalked lots of people in the painting business. I was so and so it was like this, so and so it was like that. And that's why it was this bad. And everything else little we all own something on there. And then of course, when you can actually look back and see that that's when growth can happen. Yes,
Lucas Underwood 41:18
absolutely. Yeah. You know, and I, I've said this in a couple of reels. And I've said this on a couple podcasts, man, the older I've gotten, the more I realize how smart my dad really was sure, right. Because I didn't realize and you know, I make a joke sometimes. And I talk about every time I went to do something stupid, I'd turn around and see him kind of chuckling right? Because he knew I wasn't gonna listen, you know what I'm saying? He's sure he knew there was nothing he was gonna say, that was gonna get me to listen to his advice. Right? And so now I look back, and I'm like, Damn, if I had listened to him, yeah, like, a quarter of the time, my life would have, not only would it have been exponentially better, it'd be exponentially better now. Yeah. Because if I had just pulled from his experiences, but you know, and I think that's part of growing up, I think that's part of being a kid. That was a good
Craig O'Neill 42:03
parent skill, too, by the way, observing the kid knowing they're going to make Yeah, knowing it's not going to kill him when he does. And that can trigger growth.
Lucas Underwood 42:10
And so like Now later on in life, like I look at that and I'm like, Man, if I had known what I know, right now, if I was able to communicate, like I can communicate now and slow down and understand now, instead of it being an argument instead of it being this that or the other Yeah,
Craig O'Neill 42:27
instead of argue there's never a winner it's already salutely
Lucas Underwood 42:30
The other thing is, is that the other people in the conversation can come away with it however, they want to come away with it. That's their decision. Yeah, but I have to remain in control of my perspective of it and I have to remain in control of what I'm saying and what I'm doing
Craig O'Neill 42:45
that humility component yeah to this to like our egos were so wrapped up in everything well yeah, business like being right was the point and having a say in this was the point and it doesn't even matter in the family business. I really feel like suffered because of those are all collective inability doubt girl that
Lucas Underwood 43:07
Yeah, dude, I'm telling you, and it happens in a ton of family businesses. And you know, there's a lot of family businesses I've seen go under, because there's no succession. Yeah, because the Alexa play can't work together. We just had that happen the other day, right? A grandson can do it. Now just can't do it.
Craig O'Neill 43:27
Nope. I mean, that's what prompted me to go to is there was no exit strategy. Like there's nothing left to buy. I could literally have started the business with less debt is how I see it. Yeah. There wasn't anything that I couldn't do different with just a completely new facility somewhere. Not even new, just a different place someplace else. Same name. It's still my name. That was what I had carry with me. And I realized that wasn't even my passion at that time to leaving, though. Wow, what a hard choice. Right? That was like my whole life, I was convinced to the fact that I was going to take over the family business, that's what was going to happen. Then there's this realization that it's killing me I look back at the pictures of that time period. My my kids were little in this this phase of life and the most precious of their lives. My wife was able to stay home with them full time during that time, too, is beautiful. She'd be texting me pictures, they're at the zoo, they're doing this they're doing that I'd be underneath the cards dripping snow and I'd be working late nights and we had a couple of weeks there were like literally 60 to 75 even 80 hours actual time at the facility not just production time I'm talking actual time shop and I see those pictures now and think wow, I remember those being happy years. But then I look and I see myself this was these were the most stressful, awful years of my life at the same exact time and I don't want that for anybody.
Lucas Underwood 44:54
You know, I think about that, and you know, we have a lot of people reach out a lot of technicians For a lot of owners, that would be like multi generation owners. And we try and give them advice that makes them feel better about the situation and ways to fix it. And you have, but I've never really considered the idea of telling them like, Hey, man, just get out.
Craig O'Neill 45:17
I did this vision last year, that's our guy, you know, there's a guy that came up in the break in our class, he was describing a family dynamic that was eerily similar to some of the dysfunction that that my family business had experienced. And mind you, my family, my relationship with dad, brother, were great at once we all went our own directions, healed very nicely. We loved each other truly. Right. But this guy wasn't a part of the family. And his family was there's infighting. There's the sound like some dishonesty and some horrible things that on top of poor communication that were just there's like I said, I told him, like, if you have a conversation with him, and these things aren't going to improve. Right? What are you doing there? Yeah. And he's sort of had to think about that a second, just like he has, like, the I think this is one of the things to guys is like, he didn't he didn't believe any more that there was any place else for him to go. Right. And so that's
Lucas Underwood 46:17
a miserable, what's trapped? Well, so you, you said something that really, I'm still trying to process it, because you're talking about the fact that you've looked back on those years. And those years were the most stressful years, and you remember them being happy. Your time there wasn't like miserable. Yeah. And I think about that, because there's a lot of times in my life that that I think about that, but I've never reflected to the degree that you have, I've never gone back and looked at him to that degree. You know, and even some of the most challenging things in my life, like the four wheeler story, right? Like, I still look at that. And I laugh and I'm like, Ah, I mean, almost died. Right? I was a kid, it didn't matter to me, right. But I look back now. And now that you say that, like I've been through stressful things. But my mind tells me that there were good times. And yeah, you know, I had a technician one time, who ended up leaving his wife, for for this axe that he thought was a better opportunity. And he just missed her. And he loved her so much. And, and he, he didn't even see the fact that he left for for a reason. Right. And he didn't remember all the bad things that happened. But it was like he was looking at it with rose colored glasses, and then only seeing the positive,
Craig O'Neill 47:35
strange. I don't remember any real deed specific disagreements, except for a few that my family would have, even when we were at our worst moments. It all fades away so much. I remember some key lessons on a lot of things. And I remember how my attitude was and how it affected me and how it made me feel. Right. That's the main thing you'll remember on any interaction. Yeah. And then you don't feel valued and all these other things, and then you become a victim, and then you can't grow and you're in that victim. Of course, not trapped in that stuck. Yep, nope. It's their fault. They need to change not you. They need to get better. Not you. Right. That's a lie.
Lucas Underwood 48:14
Absolutely. Every time if if you if you're hinging what's wrong in your life on someone else, doing something different? I'm sorry, you're a fool. No, I hate it.
Craig O'Neill 48:25
It's it's good. My wife, I've got a good one I married really, really well met her when I was in college. We were both in college. Actually, we met in high school. No, we were both at our high school graduation. So we met a little before we went to college. But she's the kind of person that can challenge me in a way that is so graceful and compassionate. And from a position of kindness to that I can actually achieve self awareness. But the reason that she can do that is because she's also affirming, like, sees the best, not just me, but anybody that she knows she's one of those people, I can see the best in peep, right. And it's not it doesn't even feel like an accusation. Is there? Is there anything better you could have done in that situation? Like she has better ways of even saying in the moment that forces me to think about that. And I adopted the skill, largely thanks to the fact that there is someone who just understands me even with my faults, yeah, that can give me the grace I need to get from that point to the next point and wants to see me there because not everybody wants to see you improve. Right? That's true. Not everyone wants to see you.
Lucas Underwood 49:28
I've been through that. I've been through that. I have dealt with some narcissists in my life. And I didn't even know what it was at the time, right. Oh, yeah. And looking back, I'm like, holy crap, like their
Craig O'Neill 49:37
story that needs you to be the villain. Yeah, absolutely. That's
Lucas Underwood 49:41
the only way their story works. Yep. You know, well, walk me through the decision process.
Craig O'Neill 49:48
Wow, that was tough. I will say this. I had help. In that phase. I was getting coached by Bob Greenwood arrested man, dude. Yeah, it's been a little over a year and a half. I think now it's almost two years, two years. Yeah, I miss him.
Lucas Underwood 50:02
Yeah. And to me, he was a, he was a top notch guy. He
Craig O'Neill 50:05
was my coach. And he was with me in that time that I made the decision go. And he had hour long conversations with me. And he was such a good listener, and I could vent it all out. And he knew I was I was to a point where I realized like, even though all the things we fixed, we fix tons of stuff, we were making more money, and everything else. And I loved my dad. But the way that the shop used its money, wasn't functioning in what I needed, I couldn't hang on to it. If I fall through my fingers and do nothing to build the business up to where I need to go get the technicians to where the level I needed them to be at to make the lifestyle. I wanted my team to be able to enjoy none of it. It was all for naught. And I finally just like Bob, it's not. I can't change him. Yeah. And he's happy the way it's at. Right. And I don't own it. He does. Yeah, what else can I do? I'm thinking about leaving. And he said, Well, is that what you do? Or do you do and I didn't know yet. Guys, I didn't know I literally when I did leave? I next thing I did, I took out a personal loan. I went on AMI and I put some money on their courses. I did just went like like it was my job every single day. I went through AMI as a service advisor training to get the what is the credited automotive manager? Yeah, yeah. And one of them was a 40 hour class. But without GreeNEWit that was like 40 of the 80 hour credits that that was so I sent home with that as my job and then found that I could apply at auto vitals at the time as well. Right. I only worked for them for three months met Chris glue da inside of at Apex boom before I took that job at auto vitals. And by time I had given my last two weeks notice with auto vitals than I was going on to there was in the last last day of my two week notice. And I reached out to Chris and LinkedIn log noted chat, but I'll tell you though, back to the decision on the shop, the issue was the conversation actually was the really the amazing part dad that night. We were actually losing one of our other technicians at the time, too. He was he was recognizing all the struggles of the shop too. And he was like, I realized kind of like one of the last guys I was had hired and wanted to see succeed, I realized I couldn't replace this guy. No way. And I didn't want to start over again, with another apprentice or someone else that guy was like, six years in the making awesome master tech guy that started as a 20 year old kid in the shop, man, you just can't you they don't yourself up and he exactly. Again, it was so hard. So I left shortly after he did. But that conversation with dad, it was broken down into just this simple phrase like that. I just want you to go back to being dad again. And he understood that I'm done. And we have just been where to put it.
Lucas Underwood 53:02
It really is. And so you know, and I resonate with the you've built somebody up and then they leave and that's tough dude, it is
Craig O'Neill 53:13
a key key player in that in real jewel. Fortunately, my brother's working with that that man No, actually, with his mobile guy. So
Lucas Underwood 53:21
let me ask you another question. When you know, and maybe you were late, maybe you don't when you're in the thick of that. Right? You Oh, and things are tough things
Craig O'Neill 53:30
are lined up when I quit. Right? And it feels
Lucas Underwood 53:33
like that's the whole world,
Craig O'Neill 53:35
especially as identity really at that time was my work? Right? What I bring home. So the first time you go home, and you are now unemployed, technically, even if by choice. That's scary.
Lucas Underwood 53:47
Yeah. Well, so looking back now, was it as big of a deal as you thought it was? And so, good question. You know, it's a two part question. So that's part one. And part two is is you look at that now. And you look like hey, you know, sometimes we talk about price. Sometimes we talk about a shop doing things a certain way, and you can look from outside, you're like, Man, that's a terrible idea. Why are you doing that? Like, please stop? And they're like, Nah, I'm happy doing what I'm doing. Why? Why would I change it? Do you look back now and say you know what, like, was it? Was it as big of a deal in either one of those aspects as you thought it was?
Craig O'Neill 54:23
See that's the thing is I made it such a big deal in my mind at the time. It's it was it was truly overwhelming at that moment, and I look back now it's like, Man, I should have done that years ago. Right? Like where would I be now if I had had the bravery to do that. And it's something I wish everyone realized if you're in a truly like, dysfunctional situation, toxic situation, toxic situation at times, yeah, even you're at fault even in it too. And, but you can fix yourself maybe to a degree, but you still know that other yours aren't going to be on that same plane, that's still like, don't feel like you have to fix that. Sometimes you might just fit better in somewhere else. Or maybe there's a different leader in your life that you're in Providence I believe in truly, like finding Chris cu da. In 2017. When I did at that exact point in life, he's a human being best leader I've ever worked for. Yeah, and no joke. I know, he listens to these things, too. But it's like,
Lucas Underwood 55:25
I mean, like, we all feel that way. And you know what I'm saying everyone in
Craig O'Neill 55:29
his gravity and I call it gravity for a reason. There's there's something about a man that knows how to develop the people around him like truly right. And that's, that's what a gift. Yeah, that is it's truly a gift to sit in that brain trust and be an influencer still in that company is truly a privilege. And if you had talked to me five years ago, if that I would see myself in that position I was what me right? Yeah, exactly. Nobody that also was looking at
Lucas Underwood 55:59
could be you looking at dad now and the mistakes he was making them? How do you feel about that, and he's still
Craig O'Neill 56:07
making a lot of the same ones. Now, it hasn't changed his MO too much here. And he probably doesn't listen to these things and don't want to say anything bad. But he knows. And he knows that in a business sense. I disagree with the way that things are. Is he happy? Nah, in the business, he wants to be out. Right. I think he's happy when he's fixing transmissions. Right. And it's a good week, and you have a lot of transmissions on the bench and that sort of thing. And that that's sort of how you would get the drive fulfilled. I remember that. Like, you feel good. You fix something. And you've been Yeah, tech, you know, you fix something you feel good. It immediate tangible results. That is a great feeling. It is your brain chemistry gives you that endorphin dopamine, yeah. Now, what if we can make KPIs do that? Oh, yeah.
Lucas Underwood 56:53
Well, I mean, that's where that's, that's my kick in the business, right? That's where it comes from.
David Roman 56:58
Now, when you get your numbers in there online, and you're like,
Lucas Underwood 57:02
oh, yeah, when they're not, you just feel suicidal? It's cool.
David Roman 57:06
It's a dumpster fire and you're like, why am I doing this? This is miserable.
Lucas Underwood 57:10
But you know, thinking back on that, there again, you know, we've been on this big kick in the show lately of like, if you love working on cars, for God's sakes, don't start a shop. Know, for God's sakes, don't go because it's not the same job. Yeah. Right. And so, you know, it almost sounds like that's dad.
Craig O'Neill 57:27
Yeah, yeah. You'd be very happy fixing things. And if somebody even just gave him the paycheck to do that, I think you'd be equally happy if he was making what he did and could come in when he wants to. Right. Yeah. But no, it's it's interesting and passion. Don't Don't Don't do your passion for job. No, no, get passionate about what you do for your job. Right. But if you enjoy something you want to have fun to do. I want to fly airplanes. Yeah, I don't want to do it for living that actually would probably kill it. And I talked to enough airline pilots when I'm sitting in the backseat, and they're the deadhead for the flight. Hey, man, you you still enjoy it? It's like yeah, like, I can't imagine ever not being mesmerized by flying in an airplane. Right,
Lucas Underwood 58:10
right. I think it's Mike Allen's brother flies for Delta. Okay. You know, we were talking the other day, and he said, RAM, it's not really the airplane flying part that I enjoy anymore. It's the fact that I still get fly of sixteens I think that's pretty cool. And I'm like, you know, I mean, I guess that makes sense. But you got to fly. What F 16. He's the like, I don't remember what it's called. But like Operation Red Flag or whatever, where they've got good guys and bad guys. And it's like a full scale, like mock up dogfight or whatever.
David Roman 58:43
It's not a matter of I get to fly it 400 miles an hour. He wants to go it
Lucas Underwood 58:49
faster. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's
David Roman 58:52
Mach one. What's that? 800 and something?
Craig O'Neill 58:55
That's a good question. I should know the answer to I'm not very curious writing neuron.
David Roman 58:58
Hold on. How are you? You're a pilot and you don't know.
Lucas Underwood 59:02
Well, listen, the plane team flies. If they want. He's got a little bigger problem. Yeah. Yeah, he's not he's not up there are 71 Yeah,
Craig O'Neill 59:10
the vieni speed. Time.
David Roman 59:16
767.26 nines getting her done miles an hour. Getting her done.
Craig O'Neill 59:21
So you just asked a simple question. I just googled it right now. Just wait because that chat GPT. Man,
Lucas Underwood 59:29
we've been using it for writing service orders. Oh, yeah. You're doing like, the write ups for clients and stuff. We've been using it and it works so well. Because like, you know, j does not have technical knowledge. There was a Volkswagen the other day, you know, it's got the little cam filters, and behind the actuator or whatever, that plug up the junk. And they respond slowly. Yeah. And so I'd said hey, go to new Ensign. Right. That's it. You're tapping into chat. GPT and it came up with a perfect
Craig O'Neill 59:56
explanation, and it's gonna get better on that stuff, too. It's only cut off at 2021 Right now for its accuracy, and I think it's 2021. And so once they give it the full breadth of the unit, and then the repair articles, shoot once it can browse all data or something like that, I mean, imagine how it can spit back things for us. In businesses, how
Lucas Underwood 1:00:17
do you think that companies? And maybe this is a good question for Ben Johnson is how do you think companies will respond to that? How will all data how will Mitchell How will motor respond or
Craig O'Neill 1:00:29
an answer slowly?
Lucas Underwood 1:00:32
Very, very slowly? Wait a minute, we need to make sure we stick in monetizes,
Craig O'Neill 1:00:39
I think it will actually really, truly, though, come in very slowly to our industry, I think we're probably 1520 years before it's going to make a massive impact of how our jobs will be affected by it. It'll change our day to day like it'll make things easier for us in some ways, and others do. All right estimates, it'll do some things that'll take some load off our shoulders is at its best. I believe. It's not gonna replace you.
Lucas Underwood 1:01:04
Who is it? Is it Sam Johnson? Who's the is it David Johnson, that's always like, shop management software needs to improve it needs to be I need to be able to click that button and it needs to write the estimate for me right now.
Craig O'Neill 1:01:18
Absolutely. That'd be great, wouldn't it? Oh, man, oh, here's my dream. I want to do a vehicle inspection as the professional narrate the whole thing where some smart glasses or something like that be able to snap the pictures super easy, but just narrate it to the AI. That'd be cool. Can you imagine it filling out the form for you. So you didn't have to do any notes, checking boxes or anything? It just
David Roman 1:01:38
didn't even work? It would have to scan the picture really fast and go, Hey, that looks like a lead picture. It
Craig O'Neill 1:01:45
would still be up to the human to grab. I believe it
Lucas Underwood 1:01:47
needs to have a little button and you just put your finger. Yeah.
Craig O'Neill 1:01:51
I mean, I wear glasses. So click a button. I don't know, say
David Roman 1:01:55
make roto there's no, no,
Craig O'Neill 1:01:58
I want it to be the boobs. Probably an optional.
Lucas Underwood 1:02:00
Yeah. You just say technicians walk around the shop all day,
David Roman 1:02:04
maybe are just a man who just took a picture. I don't pass explanations and write ups and stuff like that. I guess. I mean, yeah, that makes it quicker and easier. I just don't know how much use there's going to be for it. I don't I don't know, dude. I mean, I didn't watch that. Frank. It was Frank Watson. And then you have the F.
Lucas Underwood 1:02:30
Buckley did one too. Yeah.
Craig O'Neill 1:02:32
It's been on everybody. Greg? Yeah.
David Roman 1:02:36
You did one. Yeah. He
Lucas Underwood 1:02:37
did a video on where? On buckley.com? I guess.
Craig O'Neill 1:02:42
I think by by the time we get to a point where it gets that sophisticated to help us do our jobs on inspections, like the idea of the inspection, like who owns the car anymore? But that generation too. Yeah. As he's mobility companies come in.
David Roman 1:02:53
That's already. That's already an argument already. Ford says they own the car that you're borrowing. And that's not the issue. I'm saying like how's it going to? Work? Don't call for example, we don't call our customers. We don't we stop doing that. It's all through auto text. Me. It's all auto text me? Yeah. So
Craig O'Neill 1:03:09
still having that sales conversation? No, not even that. Logic forms. Interesting. Oh,
David Roman 1:03:15
whoa, what are
Craig O'Neill 1:03:17
you using the electronic approval forms Premier Li. Instead of going through this? He
Lucas Underwood 1:03:20
doesn't? He doesn't know about any of that. All he does is send Shopware once he sends him a text message. Hey, I'm sending your estimate. Oh, yeah.
Craig O'Neill 1:03:27
That's electronic approval
David Roman 1:03:28
form. Yeah, yeah. So we send them we send them the link through auto text me. And then they can open it. There's the notes. Yeah. What would make it faster as being able to like, hey, write me up an explanation on cam phasers for Volkswagen, you know, TSI from a 2013 pilot crap and it'll spit it out. And then you can copy and paste it after you run it through five other pieces of software because gibberish most of the time you've it'll get better at sounding more
Craig O'Neill 1:04:01
who Jeremy O'Neill Yeah, no. Yeah, of course. So So Jeremy, he did a portion on his digital sales class that I thought was fascinating really, really challenged my perspective of that stuff too. I remember him saying that he was using Shopware and does still watch people the electronic approval form you would see something happen. You have all the jobs I know you have all the notes but you'd see probably butchering the story a little bit Jeremy tell it better. But they would approve some 10 seconds go by 20 seconds go by they prove the next thing 10 seconds goes by they prove the next thing and a minute goes by another minute. And it goes read read read read read read read read and Jeremy I remember him saying this in the class once they go read they never come back then yeah, sure. Like what happened? Like I don't know what happened. It's like they ran out of brain calories. They had too many decisions to make now and they need like I this is where I really believe that human has to have that sales conversation still in order to guide the customer. Oh,
David Roman 1:04:53
I see a cold just the other way to where they go some customers
Craig O'Neill 1:04:58
that you already have that really ship with them though.
David Roman 1:05:01
No first time customers time customers not on average now, okay? It's always on the second or third visit, but you know, that read on this, if depending on the business model, if all of your effort is trying to get that customer in the second and third time, that second or third time is going to be green down the list. Because now they're used to it. They they know the process. They know I'm gonna be over informed. There's trust there, you
Craig O'Neill 1:05:27
have to trust. Yep. So that gets that's my point. David is like, you don't use the electronic approval form, unless you have already established trust. Yeah, right. I
David Roman 1:05:37
really, there's a lot of like, I'm going to feign trust, through talk. And I say that I'm probably gonna
Craig O'Neill 1:05:47
upset a lot of people. No, no, this I love this conversation.
David Roman 1:05:50
You're feigning trust, because you haven't delivered on anything customer shows up the first time. You're having a conversation. I'm going to build rapport. The purpose of building rapport, is that they are more apt to trust you when you make a recommendation. But you're feigning trust. It's just your
Craig O'Neill 1:06:07
I wouldn't say it's feigning. I think you're legitimately looking out for their best interest. Yes. Well, yes. And you've gotten that. Yeah, that's no,
David Roman 1:06:14
there's no, Holden No, because there's like, there's they you have to, you're faking it until you prove to them that you are able to deliver on what you're promising faking it. You're, it's there's nothing there to base it off. We're making a commitment. I'm making the commitment but great until you deliver the goods. I'm trusting you. I'm really not trusting you because it's not based on evidence.
Craig O'Neill 1:06:40
They don't have your say, so they don't have the evidence of you fulfilling your commitments.
David Roman 1:06:45
You're absolutely not just the first time you've ever been here, but now. But instead. If I've, if I've given them the process, and I and I tell them up front, I'm like, this is the whole process. We're gonna move this whole thing. Okay. Yeah. And they're like, Okay, and even if I hit all the reds, I don't mind it. It's whatever. Like, I'm going to work really hard to get you to come back in a second time. Yeah. Because the second time all those reds are going to become green as long as you've got the money. Because you understand now what we're doing here for you. There's to try to get all of that upfront through conversation. Now you can make a genuine human connection. That's possible. That Hey, you like this sports team? I like that sports team. Let's talk about the sports team. That's fun.
Craig O'Neill 1:07:36
That's likeability that's different than commitments. Right?
David Roman 1:07:39
There's likability but that tends to to slide into trust. That's your third phase of building a relationship know like trust you got from like to trust
Craig O'Neill 1:07:48
you should meet the Malloy business development guys, Dan Malloy, and Darren McClay, their recent guests on our webinar too. And they talk about the language of commitment and how no commerce happens without commitments. And I think it's just brilliant. But where I was going to the electronic form, though to is like, honestly, I just don't want my client to have so many individual jobs that they have to do, I want them to have a few basic choices. And so the tip is really just this if you aren't going to use electronic forms, or if you're advising or counseling over the sales call, break it down into simple options. Option one, here's what it takes to deal with your main concern option two main concern and all your red items option three, we're gonna go full green, this car is going to have your main concern dressed your red items dressed and by the way, these yellow items which are just due by time or mileage, but is what it is you won't have to deal with this car again for next six to eight months, whatever timeframe it is, and the thing is like if you can give your customer only three things that they have to choose from and you've already provided the health document which is your inspection form, which is the root of all recommendations, which you've already provided them which is fulfilling a commitment because your job your professional responsibility, according Bob Green was to make sure that vehicle is safe, reliable and efficient. That's the job Mr. Client and in order to do that, we will make sure in our inspection that we've identified these things, and on it goes and so by doing the inspection, you've already fulfilled the commitment. You've identified things with your professional opinion. So it isn't it isn't fine
David Roman 1:09:15
shoppers gonna hit in that direction that where they're gonna go approve all button possibly moving?
Lucas Underwood 1:09:22
I think I think it's possible that that happened. Yeah.
Craig O'Neill 1:09:26
We have another approach will be taken in that which you'll see if you read my emails.
Lucas Underwood 1:09:30
I don't read your emails. If you notice, I do more fun
David Roman 1:09:33
do you hold on? Do you write these emails? Do you like type these? Yes,
Craig O'Neill 1:09:37
I have the template all set. And then when there's a feature release, I do a summary on that old stuff. Totally cool.
David Roman 1:09:43
Do you need do you need better headlines?
Lucas Underwood 1:09:46
Oh, you just hurt his feelings. You're such a hello.
David Roman 1:09:49
I'm trying to help him alright.
Craig O'Neill 1:09:51
Alright. So right now we say here.
David Roman 1:09:53
This is all on how you take my genuine note. I just talked for 20 minutes. What is it? Good head
Craig O'Neill 1:10:00
I look like on an email to get your attention shop owner attention with release notes, the software they're using whatever platform it is what
David Roman 1:10:07
you need to put the sizzle in the headline, not that there's a new feature release. I don't know.
Craig O'Neill 1:10:14
Like, like, do I need emojis in the headline? Do you like those?
David Roman 1:10:17
Sometimes? Oh, really? Yes, this is going to be fire. And then just put the fire emoji in there. You're like, what's gonna be fire click and then blame.
Craig O'Neill 1:10:28
First everybody says you don't want to miss this. Don't miss this. Pay attention. Oh,
David Roman 1:10:33
hold on. You got to spike. So you got to spice up the you don't want to miss this. Hey, this is important. Read this. Hey,
Lucas Underwood 1:10:39
I got an idea. I've gotten a little angle. Shot. I'm curious. I got an idea. What if it's reverse psychology? What if we're going to be like, this is a politics and just put the poop emoji. Would you click on that?
David Roman 1:10:57
Yeah, probably. No, it's it's all about? Yeah, it's it's all I told you. It's okay. Yes. It's only I get so annoyed by this discard you. Listen, it's only clickbait if you don't deliver the goods. That's when it's clickbait. You don't agree with me?
Craig O'Neill 1:11:21
No, no,
David Roman 1:11:22
I just feel like I've ever had anybody explain
Lucas Underwood 1:11:23
this to us. He just he's just realizing that you are a clickbait or now he's he's realizing that you are the click beta.
Craig O'Neill 1:11:33
Testing and Rowan test.
David Roman 1:11:35
This is this argument. All of your effort has to be in getting the click, you got to get them to open that email and read the release note because it builds value in what you're delivering them true. Absolutely. Yes. So your job in writing the email is to get them to open the email. And when when we put out a YouTube video, all of our effort is I need you to click and start watching the video. So I need to put the thumbnail the title, everything in that little like space on the screen. Is there to entice you to click on it. I need to click next one now. It's only for you.
Lucas Underwood 1:12:15
I know I read Have you read any of the auto text me emails? I mean, to be honest, it's okay.
Craig O'Neill 1:12:25
Right now that we have achieved a 40% open rate.
David Roman 1:12:29
That's really good. It's actually great. That is really no that's phenomena. No, it is and now just imagine you put a couple of emojis in there.
Lucas Underwood 1:12:37
You know what's gonna happen next, you're gonna start seeing your email subjects done with care offer.
David Roman 1:12:45
Well, if you're if you're legit are getting 40% open rates ignore everything. Because there's nothing that I'm going to tell you.
Craig O'Neill 1:12:53
Maybe. Maybe I took you off the list. Maybe you don't even see them.
David Roman 1:12:58
I know I see them. I open them every so often, I'm
Craig O'Neill 1:13:00
sure. Now let me ask this though, because we have another secret weapon that I use occasionally. Well, hold
David Roman 1:13:04
on. Let me let me finish this point. I'm just saying. I'm just saying it's only clickbait all of the effort is to get them to open it's only clickbait if you don't deliver the goods yes, we've been talking for an hour and 30 Matt
Craig O'Neill 1:13:15
just looked at the time. My gosh so last point simple question for you guys. We do have the super weapon in the tool the wall message obnoxious when I use that for webinar registration or okay no okay. Because all you do is hit the X it goes away right?
David Roman 1:13:29
Yeah, it doesn't bother me I don't even see people complain about that
Craig O'Neill 1:13:33
I they have not yet but sometimes interpret silence like it's like man maybe it's somebody's like Oh no.
David Roman 1:13:42
This was like in Facebook groups when people complain to us in the ad everyone
Craig O'Neill 1:13:46
I will talk to you in there it's just simply a free training opportunity right? That's I feel like an okay thing he tagged
Lucas Underwood 1:13:52
at everyone the other day I'm like, Dude, you're gonna get one of us shot you
David Roman 1:13:57
everybody get upset? I don't understand.
Craig O'Neill 1:14:00
I usually like I don't remember being there. Yes. Yeah, exactly what it is yeah, it was like clickbait Yeah, it's like
David Roman 1:14:12
only aggravate clickbait if there's no goods being delivered, there's nothing of value behind it clickbait as those is though you were talking about those. Those those websites maybe it wasn't you. I'm sorry. I was just attributed an entire podcast I listen to from somebody else.
Lucas Underwood 1:14:33
No wonder he hates me so much. Yeah, all this stuff happens and he just like throws on me and he's like, Yeah, Lucas did that.
David Roman 1:14:42
For websites that are like you won't believe what happened to this celebrity. And you click on it takes you to a webpage Yeah. And they're like you won't believe this. Click Next. Then you click Next. This is really good. That's clickbait there's nothing of value there. They want the click. Yeah, that's it. They take the clickbait package it up, and they sell it to advertisers because we own we got 2 million hits last month. Yeah, you got 2 million hits one click at a time and you never delivered any value. Normally buying anything off those websites useless. Okay, that's clickbait. But to say that, hey, I'm going to entice you to open my email. But when you open my email, there'll be something there a value. That's like clickbait. That's just good
Craig O'Neill 1:15:22
salesmanship out 30 to 100,000 emails in their inbox.
David Roman 1:15:25
That's why you have to stand out emojis, emojis, poop and fire emojis.
Lucas Underwood 1:15:32
So I just want to know why he will know about them there.
David Roman 1:15:36
That'll be awesome. Only the people on the podcast can be like, just
Lucas Underwood 1:15:40
a frog. Hey, hey, if somebody listen, I've got a question. If somebody like, I think what you need to do is if somebody mentions the frog emoji, I think you need to give them a free month. So
Craig O'Neill 1:15:51
I'm gonna do Oh, geez. Lucas, but then said these release notes are happened. David's life and
David Roman 1:16:07
I will open that. On my head just spinning. I will open that.
Lucas Underwood 1:16:13
He didn't know. That'll be
David Roman 1:16:15
awesome. Like, no way. Click.
Lucas Underwood 1:16:18
So look, the marketing stuff has been talked about for
Craig O'Neill 1:16:21
over a year. Right? Yeah, it's been coming for a little bit.
Lucas Underwood 1:16:25
Why don't you know, like, because, dude, I've told him about it over and over again.
David Roman 1:16:29
I know it's been there. I just you know,
Craig O'Neill 1:16:31
you're on the advisory panel.
David Roman 1:16:33
Oh, is that what it is? As David yet to do? This is the same thing with Shopware. And they're like, Dude, did you see this crazy new feature in Shopware? What are you talking about? Juice the word blue. Move over to this tab. I don't have that tab. Oh.
Lucas Underwood 1:16:52
You got the tab now?
David Roman 1:16:55
Oh, check. Me That's That's what ends up happening. But so crazy. Let me screenshot it for you. Like he's taking pictures. I'm like, Yeah,
Lucas Underwood 1:17:04
super secret. You can't share this class. No, I'm just saying I mean, dude, that mark like, so. It's gonna help a lot of people when, when the meeting was over with Carolyn and Kim and Brian and everybody else trying. She said, that is the most simple. And like shop owner minded thing I've ever seen in a in a shop management or whatever software, I'm like, Well, what do you mean, she's like, well, she's like, you can look at it. And you can easily discern what it is you're doing. And you can you can look at those clients. And she's like, by the way they named the clients and the different options of how you can sort it out. It makes sense. It's like, it just works. You don't have to think about it. You don't have to, you can go into that. And it gives you a ton of data. You know, and the little things that I never used properly were like, the yes and no button over on the right. Oh, and the DVI Yeah, dude, because now I'm starting to try and send repeat DVRs and follow up messages and like all those things. Yeah. And so I had been doing follow up and everything else through like, another company. And now I'm like, Holy shit, this is way more powerful than the other company. It's way more accurate.
Craig O'Neill 1:18:21
Oh, yeah, that's a whole nother conversation. We're gonna be doing a webinar on that. And I was talking to Michael, one of my trainers next month, we're going to do a webinar. We call it the rainy day folder. Yeah, he's wonderful, wonderful area to follow up on real things a customer need because you identified it in their inspection, which is the document of truth on their car,
Lucas Underwood 1:18:38
Dude, I got six text messages last week that said, Holy cow, that's so funny. I had just thought about I need to get my car inspected, or my oil changed. And I just, and I literally was picking up my phone to call you and I get a text message saying, hey, just reminder this is do boom. And it's like it it is so effective. In the way that it does it compared to you know what I mean? Doodle Yeah. And that although predict on the reminder,
Craig O'Neill 1:19:03
yes, the service writer Oh 100% The Level Five integrations like we have a Shopware fantastic
Lucas Underwood 1:19:08
Yeah, dude, it is insane. It how I mean, and I'll pull it up for David and show him the marketing thing. But I mean, that is like everybody has seen it's like, holy cow. That is a lie.
Craig O'Neill 1:19:19
I appreciate that feedback. We have some of the brightest devs in the world in my opinion. They're just such good guys, and I'm really proud of what they put out. Yeah, thanks for saying that.
Lucas Underwood 1:19:27
Of course. Killer information.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai