F*ck Fear with Christine Spratley: Living Like a Head Bitch In Charge | Let Go. Embrace Joy.

You Were Strong Enough to Carry It—Even Stronger to Set It Down

In this episode of 'Fuck Fear with Christine Spratley', Christine welcomes her friend Ria to discuss the power of letting go, embracing joy, and tuning into one's body. They dive into personal anecdotes and experiences about carrying emotional and physical burdens, and provide practical advice on how to set them down for personal growth. The conversation covers the importance of taking the next best action, building a supportive tribe, practicing self-grace, and reconnecting with your true desires. Whether you're struggling with workplace stress, relationship baggage, or internal conflicts, this episode is a heartfelt guide to finding ease and joy in life.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction

02:20 Discussing Gray Hair and Aging

03:53 Setting the Stage for Today's Topic

05:11 The Paris Travel Story

15:34 Reflecting on Emotional Baggage

23:09 Listening to Your Body

30:24 Understanding Emotional Triggers

30:47 The Healing Power of Music and Dance

35:18 The Illusion of Strength and Ownership

36:37 Reclaiming Joy and Letting Go

38:42 The Burden of Selflessness

43:25 Navigating Personal Aspirations

50:12 Taking Action and Building Support

56:01 Embracing Grace and Self-Compassion

59:31 Final Thoughts and Gratitude

Creators and Guests

Host

Christine (HBIC) Spratley

Dynamic Public Speaker | Change Catalyst | Career Navigation Coach

What is F*ck Fear with Christine Spratley: Living Like a Head Bitch In Charge ?

This podcast is for anyone who wants to live like an HBIC—or lives with, works with, marries, dates, or is raising one. Let’s be real: being a Head Bitch in Charge is messy, bold, and unapologetically badass. This is not a guidebook—it’s a pantry.

My guests and I will share the ingredients that we use—what’s worked and what’s failed—as we say “fuck fear” and take action to live a fulfilled life. We cover real-life hacks and deep philosophical pillars to navigate the chaos of everyday life—where some days, my only accomplishment is having a bra on and my teeth brushed.

We’re tackling the daily shit women navigate, from workplace politics to relationships, raising kids, and building careers, all with humor, audacity, and zero filters.

So, tune in—tell your friends, and even your enemies. This isn’t about aging with grace—it’s about aging with mischief, audacity, and a damn good story to tell.

32 Fuck Fear - Ria in Paris
===

[00:00:00]

Christine: Hello ladies and gentlemen. Um, and welcome to Fuck Fear with Christine Spratley. I'm really excited about today's one I'm excited about it because I get to have Ria Ellen on again.

And, um, RIA, I'm just gonna let you give your own little bio if you want to, but for [00:01:00] those of you that listen to the podcast, you know who she is. Um, she is my amazing friend across the pond, maybe coming over. We'll see about that. Yeah. Um, but by the way, Maria, you got great lipstick on today. I have red too.

You can't see with what I'm what With where I'm at. I'm in the hotel room in Paris, and so you can't see. I look like, um, but you look great. Like awesome red lipstick. Yeah. Um, so I'm gonna kick it to Bria and then I'm gonna get back. She can give her a little who shout out to who she is, what, you know, all that good stuff.

And then we're gonna come back and do, um, what today's session's about. So go ahead.

Ria: Ah, thank you. I was gonna say, if you all know who I am, can you call me up and let me know because it's one of those days where I'm not sure, but that's the feel of the day. I have not a fucking clue. It depends on the day as to who I am, but I am, we at L and Peak and I'm figuring it the fuck out. [00:02:00] at the moment I'm an exed current mind body practitioner, writer, and all round, um, head bitch in charge.

I'm gonna say head bitch. Trying to be in charge is what I'm gonna be more specifically saying.

Christine: re's got more degrees and back up to back all this shit up, so let's just put it like that.

Ria: gray hairs I'll add.

Christine: Hey, I, I got 'em too. I mean, it's funny because during Covid I had a massive racing stripe and I'm, I'm getting ready or I'm not getting ready. I have gone to trying to be more gray, but I just gray on the top.

That's how I gray. And so I've had to lighten everything up all the way around. So it's fun. Gray hair's fun. I got, I remember. The first gray hair I ever found. I was living in Austin, Texas, and I literally was in the bathroom and I was like, what? And then, and I was like, what the fuck? And then I got closer and I immediately, without thought [00:03:00] or interaction, I literally went and got the tweezers and pulled that motherfucker out.

I was like, boom. Like, you do not belong here. And then I, and that was just the beginning. But yeah, I, you know, it's like I tell people I will take old and achy over young and dumb any day, so I, you know, I'm, I'm learning and, and now I notice women with all gray and I'm not there yet. And, um, but it's amazing.

I mean, there's some beautiful gray out there.

Ria: There is, and I spoke to a relative of mine about the first time I had that experience, and I did the same with you. I went straight for the tweezers and went, hell no. And she went, girl, you think you've got a problem? Wait till you find your first gray pube. And I never complained after that.

Christine: I know

that's a whole nother thing. I just, I just go get, I just go get waxed and I'm like, fuck it. We just don't even need to see it anymore. You know, just whatever. Yeah. And, and what's funny is it's like those things are so interesting how you react to 'em, which, so [00:04:00] we're gonna, we're gonna, that is not the subject gray hair on your head, gray cubes.

You're not the subject of today's, of today's thing. But, um, it, it is what is today's subject and, and kind of where I'm going with it. And I'm so glad you're on because we, we talked a little bit about this earlier today, and um, really what it is, is I wanna talk about the idea of. Okay, both in practical terms, we're not in therapy.

This is not a therapy session today. This is a real life put on your pads and play in the world that you're at, whether it be at work, whether it be with your kids, whether it be in a relationship with your, with your husband, spouse, boyfriend, or just dating or in relationships with girlfriends or just in the world of what the fuck as it is, um, when you are strong enough to carry it, whatever it [00:05:00] is.

But then you realize, um, that it's not the question. The question isn't, am I strong enough to carry it? The question is, am I strong enough to set it down and I'm gonna do, I'm gonna, A real life example for me is prior to coming to Paris, I'm in Paris to speak and I spoke yesterday and I needed to get a bunch of shit done and I'm doing it.

And I had this kind of thing go on in my life where I was like, man, that motherfucker is gonna dump everything on me right before I head out. I know it. And I did everything in my power to to to, to speed it up, to manage up and to do all these things. But I just knew it was coming. And sure enough, Friday, I think it was Thursday, Fri in Friday, I had to react and, you know, send it over.

I got my stuff done during the weekend, but [00:06:00] really wasn't packed all together and hadn't honestly written my speech. Um, and so I'm gonna do it Monday. I'm gonna do it Sunday night. I fell asleep Sunday night, didn't do it, got everything laid out on my couch to pack, um, pack my new packing cubes were coming Monday.

So, you know, again, organized. I'd go do my stuff, I'd get my things done in the morning. I went and had my back worked on because I, it was way outta whack. Um, unfortunately the epidural has not taken in effect yet. And I was getting on a plane Monday afternoon. I was like, man, I, I gotta go get this work. So I'm coming back from that and sure enough, boom, shit drops.

And it just, I knew that was gonna happen and I had no control over it. So I'm muscling through and I'm be damned. I'm gonna fight and I'm gonna get through this and just emotional head space and all that stuff. And meanwhile, I'm not packing my packing cubes, I'm not making my [00:07:00] re my lodging reservations and logistics confirmed in Paris and I'm leaving.

So my thought is, well, I'll just do it on the flight, right? And I'll just do that on the flight. Um, you know, but I'm gonna get this done. I'm gonna, no, I'm not gonna take this. I'm. And, um, so it was really interesting for me because I, I struggled and thank God my friend Kama came over and helped me pack shit.

'cause I was like way late, you know, you're supposed to get on a flight three hours before I got on, like an hour and a half out there. And I schmoozed the gate, everything that could go wrong when I walked through the gate, went, you know, went wrong. I like, they had just everything. But I got there and I was there and I was good.

And then I'm like, holy shit, I, 'cause I didn't pack, I didn't pack all my technology, my cores and this and that, a converter, all this stuff you need. So I'm, I mean, it, I was carrying it, but I wasn't carrying the shit I should have been carrying. So I'm at the [00:08:00] airport and I'm talking to Fian and she's, and, and they say, Hey, well you're getting ready to go.

Why don't you just set it down, set, basically set the turd down. You know, we've talked about turds, set the turd down. Until you come back on the 27th. And I said immediately, it's like that gray hair. I was like, immediately, no, I'm not. I'm gonna respond and I'm not gonna take the shit and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And, um, wait till you get a load of me. And and so I carried it. I, I carried the carry-on, fit nicely in the carry-on coverage, and I got it out and I was working on it on the way to Paris, and then my computer went dead. And I was like, fuck, I'm in Paris. I don't have lodging. So I get off the plane, I find my lodging.

I know Rita, you're laughing. And, and again, this is from, from someone who used to be so meticulous about global travel, I traveled a ton of it. So I was like, boom. I mean, I [00:09:00] had stuff and I was like my itinerary. And so I was anything but organized. So I land and I'm like, all right. And I do know this. If you're going to get on your phone and do shit, do it in.

The area of your baggage before you get out into the general public. Because once you get out in the general public, everybody is looking at you like a tourist, and they're hitting you up for taxis and this and that. You cannot look unorganized. So I'm doing it. I get my, I, I say, okay, I'm gonna go here.

Well, here was this little village right outside of Charles Dega airport, close to the convention center, but I, it doesn't have, it's not a hotel, right? It doesn't have luggage stay. I can't check in early. So I'm texting the people going, can I get in early? So my Uber drops me off at like 10 30 in front of this little apartment complex that I can't get into, and I don't speak French.

And I just, it, it was just [00:10:00] crazy. It was so stupid that I did all this. And this kind guy that was washing the windows came out and said, here, I'll, you know, and he, and we did the Google Translate thing and he helped me and he and I said, cafe, and again, rhe. You're gonna laugh at me 'cause I'm a stupid American.

Didn't realize cafe means bar Bistro. I mean, it's all that shit over here. And so he's like, oh, there's one down here and it's close, and you can, and he helped me take my luggage, my big suitcase, my little suitcase, and me rolling in there. I've got my dress on, I'm wearing my wedges. I look good. Not for a little village in France, but I look good for Paris.

And I'm tracking down there and cobblestones. And finally I'm like, Hey, back hurting. I'm like, Hey dude, you need to walk small. Fa or slower. So we'd go to this bar and it's a little tiny bar and, um, one that I would've liked to drink in back in the drinking days. And this pissed off guy shows up, old guy running the shoot at the bar, bar [00:11:00] apron on stuff.

And the guy, I can tell that my guy who's been helping me is trying to explain to him, and he's not really liking it at all. And so finally my guy convinces him, just let, let he, he would say, let her stay. And so I sat with my two pieces of luggage and stay. And I was like, huh, okay, I'm here. All right, gotta play, stay.

And I just have to stay till two. And the more so I'm like, well, I'm gonna go change. And I go to change. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, no, I'm trying to tell him I'm gonna change. He's like, no, no, no, you leave. You leave. And so he is literally pushing me out of the bar. He's exuding me like, gee, no, no, no, you leave, you leave, you leave now.

And I can't do the accent. But he was, and he said some other things that I couldn't understand, but I know when you're cussing somebody out and in any language, you know, there's just this universal fuck [00:12:00] you, um, tone that you get. And so I'm standing outside the bar and I'm like. All right. So I open up my suitcase, I get my flats on and I'm like, what do we do now?

So I go into Paris and I'm like, well, shit, I'm not staying there. I'll stay somewhere else. I get my thing reservation. I go into, I don't know, do you have these there in uk? Nanny bags?

Ria: No, but you explain. You explained to me earlier, I've never heard of them. We might,

Christine: Yeah. Like,

Ria: of them.

Christine: yeah. They're like, I don't know where they're at, but they're in, they're in France and basically you get to house your luggage in these locations. They're not lockers where you go in, you put your lock on, you literally give your lugg your luggage to someone you don't fucking know,

Ria: No, I don't

Christine: and you're like, okay,

Ria: enough in the UK to do that. We don't trust anyone, so no.

Christine: well, I will tell you that I normally wouldn't. But I am [00:13:00] in Paris with two things of luggage and I can't check in until. Like three, and it's 11 or two until it's 11 and it's 11. So I'm like, fuck it, take it. And I walk in and it was like a cross between a Russian mobster and the American mob. I mean, that is the guy, it's like, it's like, who's the guy that that, um, that I told you what?

That he looked like the big French guy. The big Yeah, but no, the French guy. The French actor. Ja, the, the big one. Yes. You know, it was like that. And I walk in and there's this woman behind the counter, and she's like, doesn't say, I mean, it's a, it's a, it looks like a hair salon. 'cause that's what it said on the, on the door.

And it was in a nice part of Paris, but it, it didn't feel like a nice part of Paris when I walked in. And I'm so, fuck it. I'm like, here, take my shit. And, you know, he scanned it. It's all legit. It's, it's reviewed, you know, like all this stuff. I'm like, well, we'll see what happens. Whatever I [00:14:00] have on now I can wear to speak, so fuck it.

Take it. And, um, so then I finally find this, this, and then I go over and I'm walking. And again, I'm still thinking about this turd in, in, in the back of my mind. And none of this would've happened if I would've not engaged and just set it down. But I'm gonna muscle none of this. And I've had multiple times to kind of like set it down.

And I sit and I'm sitting at this cafe and I'm like, I'm reading my kind of STO thing, and it's the Marcus Aelius quote and, um, about, ask yourself at every moment, is this necessary? And immediately my mom went back to my friend at the airport going, well, you can set it down for to the 27th. And I thought, what the fuck are you doing? Is what you're [00:15:00] doing necessary?

And the only reason it was necessary is because I wouldn't set it down. So I was like, stop, stop, stop. You were sitting, I was sitting out in front of, I think it's St. George, the tower there, and in, in, in this beautiful little cafe. And the waitress had, the waitress had field tattooed right on her chest plate up above.

And we were talking about tattoos and, and she was so, they were so funny and so sweet. And I couldn't speak a lick French, but they didn't care. They were like, text, you know, we were doing it on the, on the Google. And I just said, stop. And so that's a long, long-winded way to say what are, what are we carrying?

What bag of bullshit? Are we carrying? And not only that, but RI, again, this is not therapy 'cause some of the bullshit that we carry is this emotional baggage or fight, but it could be the coworker or this or that. But then we [00:16:00] carry it into other parts of our lives and it's like, what are we carrying and what pantry items do you have that where you hit moments and you pulled that pantry item out and went, oh shit, I'm gonna put this down.

Because like for me, if I don't practice doism, if I don't have people in my life like my friend who is like, okay, I'm gonna toss this out to you and I'm gonna watch you totally disregard it defiantly and let you run into that motherfucking wall all by yourself because I'll be here. And I've talked to that friend since and they were like, yeah, yeah, we knew.

I mean, I hit the bed yesterday and I, like I told you, I slept for almost 12 hours. I'm so exhausted. So it's like. I'm curious and I wanted to vote and you can take it 'cause I've talked way too long, but I'm curious 'cause it doesn't just happen, you know, just, I mean, when we carry that shit around. But then what are your pantry items?

What things are your cues to go, oh, I learned this lesson. I'll [00:17:00] put that shit down.

Ria: Mm. Yeah. I think as you were talking, a few things kind of flagged up to me about where I've really, I've wrestled to hold on to that, that baggage, that turd, I've gone, no, it's mine. You know, like, what am I without it? And I think one of them was when I worked in medicine. I mean, I, I didn't like it. did not a lot of the time.

I enjoyed moments of it. I enjoyed parts of it, but I came home and I, I dread. Going the next day. But I carried on going for years because I went, well, you know, I've, I've got this label, like I, I know what this is, this is safe, this is no,

Christine: Yes, yes.

Ria: Right.

Christine: It's my turn.

Ria: Exactly. And there's something in identity in that.

There's

Christine: Yeah.

Ria: in, I know the shape of my life. I know the shape of the turd. If I let it go, who knows what the frick I'm gonna be holding onto,

Christine: [00:18:00] Mm-hmm.

Ria: you know? And then one day I kind of woke up and went, God, like, this is gonna sound a little bit morbid, but I went, you are gonna die one day. And, and that, again, I know that sounds miserable, but I kind of went like, do I need this in my eulogy?

What do I want it to say? And I think that's a really interesting question. You know, like, what, what, what's your legacy? What's that gonna look like? 'cause it sure fuck isn't gonna be holding onto whatever. Crap isn't serving you and isn't letting you find the, parts of yourself that you've, that don't feel safe, but perhaps are where the more interesting parts are.

You

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Ria: So, yeah. I always think like, do I need this label? Do I need this job? Do I need this man? Or is this a safety thing?

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Ria: a turd I'm holding onto because I'm treading

Christine: And.

Ria: and I'm gonna drown?

Christine: Yeah. And [00:19:00] that's, I think that's the illusion. Is that because I know, okay, the illusion for me is I, it's safety, right? It's really not. It's not at all. And whether it's the anger that I, you know, I was talking to, it was, it was on Tuesday when we were talking and I was talking to, um, and I was talking about, you know, that, that, that hard candy that we suck on that shit, it tastes like shit.

It's like, for me it would be sucking on a black licorice piece of candy.

Ria: Agreed. Yeah.

Christine: do it. I'm gonna do it. And, and it doesn't, it not, it's not even serving. It is destroying, it is taking up, it is not sometimes destroying me emotionally. I mean, I took, when I took my job at EY Big four, I'm gonna go get, I'm gonna go get two years.

That's what I was gonna do two years. Okay, in Big four, I was gonna get it on my resume and then go and use it and move on. [00:20:00] I stayed there. I stayed in Big four for overall Big four for 13 and a half years now. Was it all bad? No. No, but oh, you know, the turd wasn't bad all the time. Huh? I did four shop, you know, I loved some of the people that I worked with and you know, but again, it's like that thing you were saying, it's that safety.

And sometimes it could be I'm pissed off and I want to, I wanna feel that emotion rather than deal with it or, so I mean it, but it's amazing. The illusion of the unknown is worse than what I have. And the, and the truth is, I talk, and what's funny, I talked about this yesterday in my speech, which is one of the reasons why I think it's so impactful to me is that in that, and j Borris says.

Poem after a while, the end is you really learn, you know, after a while when you say goodbye, you learn that you really can endure, that you really are strong and that you really are worth. [00:21:00] And I never learn those things unless I go through and let go. And then I know I can't endure. And then I'm strong.

And then I have worth. But if, like you say, if you're holding onto it, so what else were you holding onto? Big or small? It can be, it can be something small, but, and what triggered, what made that trigger for you?

Ria: I mean, I think what you say, it's like, there's, there's a martyrdom in it that's like, oh, but I can, so I should, right. Maybe not everyone can, not everybody gets the education. Not everybody gets the job. So I better keep showing up even if it fricking kills me because I can. And that's, you know, I, I, I think I've had people say to me, um, in the past kind of, well, you know, it's, you, you, you, you do, you always show up.

You always get through. You can. And then one day, I, I mean, I lost, I think I lost something like 15 pounds. I was really, really chronically [00:22:00] stressed. I had no time to eat. It might have even been closer to 20. And I got up one day and went, I can do, I fucking wanna, and it hadn't occurred to me to go, do I wanna, does that, does that follow Like, it's just,

Christine: Oh my gosh, it's so nice.

Ria: Yeah. Does not mean

Christine: all, we're the last to ask ourselves the most important question. Do I want to, do I want this and, and like, not should I want it, not should I keep it, but do I fucking want this?

Ria: yeah.

Christine: And then go, I don't. Okay.

Ria: Mm.

Christine: And.

Ria: But this is the thing, and I think that's the hardest place to be because it's, it's sometimes we, we get an instant feeling of, oh, I don't, but what does two want feel like? What's the 'cause that's scarier? That's almost, think [00:23:00] particularly in

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Ria: kind of, there's fear there in the response of the want. You know, where do you

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Ria: move with that? And I think a tool that I use now is I don't ask my mind. ask my body, and there's something in a kind of thinking of the body as almost like a pendulum, right? Like a, you know, one of those, I can't remember what they're called, I think they're called pendulums, that kind of go

Christine: No, you got it right. You got it right?

Ria: You know what I mean?

Christine: Yeah. You got it.

Ria: I, so yeah. Rather than asking in here, I, you have to drop down and go, okay, heart, okay. Guts like, what do you want? 'cause this, this is a fricking terrible master, a great servant, but the mind is a terrible master, and it tricks us into

Christine: I like that song.

Ria: charge, you know?

Christine: I like that saying The Mind is a terrible master because again, I, I was [00:24:00] on my road on my way, so my back, you know, my back is crazy. And then I was on that six hour flight and, and I was a mess. And, but again, I must, and then I get to yesterday morning where I'm going to speak and I'm literally like, you can't fall asleep in the Uber.

Like you can't, like, you gotta literally was like I mean, nodding off and then I go do my thing and then I'm writing back and I dozed off. I mean, and I, again, my body is just. Like you say, you've gotta ask your body. And I thank God this, this hotel had the best bed firm enough, but soft. But, but 'cause I'm in my back, I need firm.

And I, and I got up this morning and my body was like, thank you. And I never, if, if, you know, I get up and sit out mugshots and I could usually get up at six and I slept till 10 30 and was like, I mean I got up at eight [00:25:00] 'cause I woke up eight 30 and I think I sent my mugshots out. Maybe I didn't, I don't remember.

But again, listen to your body. And I think women, I know for me, I was not in tune with my body. I didn't trust my body. I didn't know anything about it. And even if I was in tune with it, I didn't know what the fuck it was telling me.

Ria: Yes, exactly.

Christine: And I went through this on the co on a conversation with my buddy last night and I said, you know, in AA we call it halt hungry, angry, lonely, and tired. And I, when I think about that, I usually think about it like you were saying in the mind. But now if I look at it and I go to my body, is my body hungry?

Is my body bristling? You know, am I tight? Am I angry? Am I lonely? Am I kind of in that hunched over kind of, you know, your gut doesn't feel right and am I tired? Is it just literally napping? But I thought, I think that is such a great thing. Your mind is a wearable [00:26:00] master and your body, but how do you learn?

'cause I know this has been a journey for you, but how do you continue to learn? And did you learn to get in tune with your body? Like what it's actually saying on a on, not on when? When you're not able to sit and fucking meditate, and even if it speaks to you, what the fuck is it saying? But like on a daily basis.

Ria: Yeah. Um, it was, I mean, it's still a, a journey that I'm on, but it's, it's been about seven years and it took getting as it always does, as it often does, getting really sick and my body literally screaming at me for me to go, something's not right and I'm not gonna find it in my mind. 'cause boy, I looked, I looked and I looked, and the more I looked, the further I got away from the actual answer. And it took reading. It took some incredible teachers, but really it took getting to a point of [00:27:00] near breaking to actually sit and go and literally go, what? What are you saying? Like, what do you want? And more to that, can I listen or is it too painful? To listen. And then bit by bit, kind of even with food, like sitting in front of it and going like, okay, what, what do I want?

I mean, for six months, and this is, I, I still don't know why this happened, but for six months, Christine, all I wanted to eat was burnt broccoli. I don't know why that happened, right? I do not know why, but

Christine: Is.

Ria: months it was wild. And now I can't look at it right now. If I see it, I'm like, but six months all I wanted, and it had to be really burned. Um, it must've been doing something. But yeah, I think now mostly I, I notice. When I'm in here and it's bouncing around, bouncing around because I stop being able to feel my [00:28:00] feet, feel my stomach, feel my heart, and I go like, oh, where have we been? eventually the beautiful thing is the more you kind of drop in and go, right, okay, I'm gonna listen. Even if it's, can I feel my heartbeat?

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Ria: feel my breath? The breath is a brilliant way in 'cause we have

Christine: Yeah.

Ria: it, you know, it's there all the time. eventually she starts speaking back

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Ria: it's a whisper. At first it's like, oh, you know, little bit over here. And then it gets a little bit louder,

Christine: So.

Ria: just becomes this natural conversation.

Hmm

Christine: When, how does she speak back? Because I know for me, um, my body right now speaks back in my morning constitution. You know, it's like I wake up and I didn't eat right. If I didn't do things like I'm, and, and also I get inflammation in my hands, um, and my [00:29:00] back speaks to me all sorts. But I'm curious, what ways do yours, does your body go, Hey, something up girl, something up, Bria,

Ria: Mm. Okay.

Christine: I want my listeners to go, oh.

'cause they, 'cause they may not have ever, like for me, when I first started doing it, it was okay, the breath, but, okay. But there's more than just that going, Hey doc.

Ria: there and a couple of things, Christine, I will say, and I say this with all the love and tentatively, your body's not speaking. She's shouting.

Christine: Yeah.

Ria: shouting. And two, I know in terms of the breath, there is more. But what I would say is that's your, that's your key in,

Christine: Mm-hmm. It should tell if telephone line.

Ria: is, it's, it's the first way in. Um, and in terms of how mine speaks, I mean, it varies day to day. of the [00:30:00] ways I've noticed is say, um, say for example, I, I see a written word or I hear something and it's like, boom. Slight flicker of the heart, slight. We're holding ourselves a little more and I'm like, why are you acting like you're gonna be attacked?

Christine: Yeah. Your posture changes.

Ria: changes. I'm like, I'm not open. I am very one for hollowing and going in and the chest becoming inwards. I'm like, okay, so what are we responding to here? What is it that's making you feel unsafe? What is it? Is it happening now? Is it tracking back into the past and we just think it's happening again because of the stimuli? Like, what is it? And what I found often with the body mine particularly, and I imagine yours knowing who you are, like a big way in, is through music,[00:31:00]

Christine: Oh yeah.

Ria: What am, what do I wanna hear today? What does she wanna move to today? Because, and I'm working with this fabulous dance teacher at the moment who talked to me recently about how, um, historically women would move through music day to day.

We'd moved through our trauma, our emotions, our grief, dance, and rhythm. It was all part of the day-to-day makeup. And we don't, therefore, attention, stress, trauma. It didn't get stuck because we moved through it. We were so much more active, and dance was a big part of day-to-day life. Whereas now we're so stagnant and we have the music that we're listening to, but we're not moving with it.

It's not

Christine: Yep.

Ria: We are receiving it, but we're not responding to it. And I think that's really important. So what are you craving? [00:32:00] What do you,

Christine: Yeah.

Ria: brings you alive today? What brings her

alive

Christine: speaks to her? It's funny because you are right. You know me, you know me very well on that. I adore music. Um, not, and, and it's funny because. You know, my, my stepdaughter Madison is in Nashville and she's a singer songwriter doing her thing. Amazing. And we have totally different tastes of music, but I finally feel like I get the beauty of music because I literally love it.

And it, and it, it talks me, and it can be like, in the morning I feel this, and in the afternoon I feel this or whatever, but I want to move with it. I want to, you know, and again, I, I know you're funny 'cause you're so funny. I, I listen to a lot of hotpod and we've changed songs and stuff and, but in the last two to three weeks, two weeks specifically, I've been [00:33:00] going through some stuff and I've been listening to a lot of John Hyatt kind of WR blues, you know, that sort of stuff.

Um, and, you know, Sade and just, you know, different soulful things and. And it was funny, I literally was thinking last night, I was like, this is, this is what I wanna fall asleep to. Like, this is a comforting thing. And I, I do think music can do that. Um, and I think it's one of the, almost, and you tell me, 'cause you probably studied something like this, where the connection to it is almost subconscious.

We talked about how the body has like four, and so the body listens to our environment without us knowing it. I mean, yes, we know it and we can see the signs, but it's also keeping score. Does it, does it respond to the stimuli of music in that way for a soothing and, and like, is that Yeah.

Ria: yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, I don't know if you ever had one of those days where you are moving through tracks and you're going, [00:34:00] no, this is, this is knit. It was it yesterday?

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Ria: but I can't find the right sound today.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Ria: another way in which I think we can really go, oh, something isn't fitting.

Something's happening

Christine: I am carrying some shit.

Ria: Yeah, something's, where is the turd? Where's it hiding?

Christine: What pocket is it in? How'd that make it? Security? The fuck? That's all we need is we need like a security thing to walk through and go scan for all the turds. All right there on the board. I hate, you know, like seriously like a wand. Be like, all right. [00:35:00] I, I think what's also incredible is that I know that I'm carrying stuff sometimes and I get in this delusion, this self-imposed delusion.

'cause I know enough to know that I can set it down. I mean, when that per, when my friend said that, I was like, yeah, I know. But I was like, fuck. And it's like this delusion that I need to either be. Strength comes through proving that I can carry it, or the delusion that I'm making a choice to carry it, when really I'm making a choice to pretend I'm gonna be safe and not deal with whatever.

Yeah,

Ria: Yeah, that, I think that really, really hits, doesn't it? [00:36:00] it's almost like, oh, I'll take ownership. Therefore, it's not so much of a. A strain. If I go, I am choosing to engage with it, then it's that kind of false sense of, oh, I, I got this, and

Christine: it is a choice. It's my choice.

Ria: And actually underneath you can, you can, I mean, for me, I can definitely tell, I've overridden my body's intuition of going, this isn't best for you.

You know, it's not you, you, you're sitting there in the driver's seat,

Christine: That's bullshit. Your bullshit meter is like turned way down that it's there.

Ria: Yeah. And I'm like, I choose to carry this. And it's like, why?

Christine: It is funny how, um, you know, there's a, there's a Lucinda Williams wrong song song, Lucinda Williams song, and I'll send it to you. It's called, um, it's called Joy. And a friend of mine, I hadn't listened to it for years, and I can't remember the last time I heard it, but I know I've heard it in the past. Luc to Williams, I love her.

And, um, it's, it's joy. And it's like, who stole my joy? I want my [00:37:00] joy back. I want my fucking joy back. And it's like we, there's, there's so many opportunities along the way to set it down and get your joy back, whatever it is. And I think for me anyway, sometimes I think, well, this is just about the big stuff, but it's not, it's about like, I carried my, my thing so I didn't bring my, my.

Technology. So I had to go buy it at the airport, which sucks. But I'm in there and I'm talking to this great young woman and we start talking. I started coaching her and we started having this great conversation and, you know just about business and, and, and, and that's was joyful to me, right? Like there was an off ramp

Ria: Yes.

Christine: and I didn't stay in it.

But again, it's like, I just think for me, and I hope for my audience, whatever, whatever your body's [00:38:00] telling you, how ever you get in touch, look at the lights. They're there, the signals are there. Put the shit down. You don't get, you know, you don't get it. Like you said, at the end of the day, they're not gonna stand up and go, well, she endured, you know, X amount of years at this job, and she put up with this asshole for X amount of years, and this friend who was psycho did this.

And, and we all love her for it. Like I. I once heard, and I can't remember the place, but I was trying to find it. Um, someone said, well, they gave her the shirt off the back, you know, she'd give her your shirt off the back. And they were like, no, don't fucking do that. That's your shirt. Dumb ass. You need to keep that shirt so you can keep it's fucking cold out here.

Like this mentality. And I think part of it too is for me, I was very much raised where you, you are a martyr. You brought that up. And I think women in general are taught the more we are caregivers, the better person we are.

Ria: Yeah.

Christine: Well, I'm gonna switch that [00:39:00] around. I will say yes, but the caregiver, I'm supposed to be taking care of the person, the human is me first, first and always like, this is the only human that I have told to mean over.

So like, it's the, and I'm, and the human being I'm supposed to raise is me. And raise doesn't mean till I'm 21. Raise means. Grow, love, nurture, and cherish and protect throughout my lifetime.

Ria: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And that doesn't mean being someone smart

Ria: No, and that's exactly it. I think what I've noticed is people have this inherent fear of being selfish. You, you must have heard it like, oh, you know, oh no, I, I don't wanna be seen as selfish. I can't be selfish. You know, it's, it's a bad word. It feels bad to say it in your mouth. It's got a bad feel to it. And I find that really interesting because it's like we're all inherently selfish. That's just biologically we [00:40:00] are

Christine: survival. Right?

Ria: Like, it's just, it's mad. But I think particularly with women, it gets tossed around. Like, I mean, I've heard, um, a few people say, and people say about people in my family, like, oh, they're too selfish to have kids. Oh, she's too selfish to be in room. She's too selfish to be a wife. it's like, well, what, what you're saying here is that she's not just gonna lie down on the floor and let people trample all over her, and you are going to persecute her for that because you did it. So you get this kind of, um, kind of in an outgroup thing with it where people who have lived their life like that are in, they're bitter. if they see it not happening,

Christine: Oh yeah.

Ria: it down.

Christine: Mm-hmm. Well,

Ria: selfish. It's the worst thing you could possibly be. Forget being, you know, carrying the plague or whatever. That, that selfish is the worst. It's really interesting.

Christine: it's funny because I think there's, I'm exploring the dynamics 'cause I deal with [00:41:00] a lot of really strong. Powerful women, women that are accomplished, and certain men are attracted to those women, right. Um, but

Ria: sort or attracted to those women, Christine,

Christine: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, they're scared to death of 'em, but they're attracted to 'em. And there's, they want, it's, it's almost like they want, they, they get their power from being in their, in their light.

And, you know, she looks good, she talks good. And it's almost like we want you to have that strong voice until you start voicing your own needs and, and, and wants. And I, I, it's amazing how that is turned against them, where, you know, go out and get that job and they work and work and work. And then it's like, okay, now take a lesser job.

And it's like, what? Now you're being selfish. It's like, what the fuck? You know? Or, or whatever, because. You know, I didn't have children. I didn't give birth to children my own, but I did help when they were [00:42:00] there and, and everything. But like, you know, women, and there's a Beyonce song that talks about we, you know, you give birth and then you're back at work.

You know, you can do both. And it's like, there's these incredible women, and I talked to them and I'm like, what? You're, you're, you're just asking for a break. You didn't like tell 'em like you're just sharing the fucking load now instead of carrying it all. But it is this idea of I can't be selfish. I can't put that down.

And I think two things you said that really hit me. One was the inherent guilt that we accept in that and the, the, the fight of No. And sometimes it's just for the, for the breath that we want to survive. Like that's how, I mean, that's how much we're trying to get out of it. Like, we really want, like you said, the body is screaming.

I've known so many, I've got a friend that has had so much [00:43:00] autoimmune immune issues and things like that, that finally they like broke down like bad and was still trying to work. And it was part of, it was the place where she was working. But it's, it's amazing that, and the other thing that that kind of caught me was the whole idea of

the question of what do I want? Because I remember it wasn't the question for me when I, 'cause again, my husband a few years back was like, we were pulling in the garage and said, Christine, you're unhappy. And I can't, like, it's an in, like, it's a, and I knew it was an NJ job, but he was like, you gotta figure this out.

Like, what do you want to do? And it, it was scared me. Wasn't the fact that I couldn't go get it like that. Like I, I'm done. Like I. I can go get something. Um, it was the [00:44:00] fact that I might not know because I was so shut off from knowing what I wanted. I could tell you a job. I could tell, but I could you, you know.

But really, like, and one of the things that was really interesting was, again, the book Break Your Own Rules. The question that they asked the women when they were going through it was, if failure's not an option, I would, what does that look like? What does that look like?

Ria: Mm

Christine: Like, like it's not an option. You can be the top of whatever.

Like what does that look like? And um, it took me a long time to be able to answer that question

Ria: mm Yeah.

Christine: and yeah. 'cause I didn't, but that's what scared me. Literally. I. Was I, was I gonna know? Could I know?

Ria: Yeah.

Christine: How do I get to know? Because I was never one of these people [00:45:00] that said, oh, I know what I wanna be when I grow up.

And, and because I was so not in touch with me.

Ria: Mm. I think that's the thing, isn't it? It's like. Similarly, I think when you are growing up and actually if someone said, what do you want? You go, well, I wanna survive this bit. you don't have the luxury of designing your own life when you're put in a situation where thriving isn't an option, but surviving is the day to day. Like you can't forward think that far. I mean, I certainly couldn't. And I think with what you've just said and failing not being an option, I think what's really interesting, and when I've been speaking to to women that I work with, it's like they don't want a specific thing. It's not a job, it's not a house.

It is a feeling and that feeling is ease. it's more like what's the vehicle that will give you that ease as opposed to what do you want? Because I also think the word want when it [00:46:00] comes to womanhood. It's dangerous territory and there's something

Christine: Awesome.

Ria: witch wound of that, or there's something in kind of, again, the selfishness or the knock

Christine: Yeah. The negative tone

Ria: whenever we've dared to want, I mean, for me, whenever I dare to want it, it's blown the fuck up in my face, you know?

So it's like, ah, I don't think I'm gonna want again. I might sneak and slowly kind of

Christine: I might get to slice the pie, but never the whole pie. No. Or maybe yesterday's pie, but not today's,

Ria: one from a week ago, or like, I'll reheat some of yours if you've not finished it, but my

Christine: and that's the funny thing. That's the funny thing about, we know it tastes shitty, but I'll take the shitty because I know what that tastes like because it's better than wanting the really good stuff. And the truth is, this is the truth for me, is that whether I acknowledge that I want it, whether I acknowledge that I would like to feel this way, I, that's the fucking truth.

[00:47:00] It's in me. And so it's just, and then it takes so much energy not only to swallow that nasty ass shit that we carry, eat, or whatever that we don't want, but then also to suppress and keep that, want to keep that down. It takes so much energy to do both.

Ria: does. It really does. Yeah.

Christine: Yeah. And it's like, I mean, and I'm gonna bring Joe into this just for a second, Joe, but, and, and Maria, if you know this reference, that's fine, but you know an Animal House, Joe, where they say they're doing the, do you know Animal House?

Joe Woolworth: Yeah, it's, I do know it, but it's actually on a list of movies that I should have watched, but I haven't watched

Christine: Yes. Everybody should have watched it. That's exactly what should have happened. You should watch that movie. Um, it's completely inappropriate and not politically correct. So of course you wanna watch it, but there's this. Seen in [00:48:00] there where in fraternities and universities over here where they have fraternities, right?

And they go through what's pledging, where you have to prove yourself. And basically it's, it's, they don't say that it's hazing anymore, but there's a lot of fucking hazing that goes on. And um, so this guy's on all fours, they're in the pledging ceremony and they're whacking him in the ass with this, with this big mouth thing.

You remember that Joe?

Joe, you're on mute. Oh God. Oh, that's right. You're not. Well anyway, they're w whacking him in the ass with this. Pull it up if you can put him in the, put it in the podcast club. But they're whacking him on the ass. And this, this pledge is going, yes. Yes sir. May I have, thank you. Char Erma have another thank you.

Ser may have another. And they just start w whacking the shit out of him. And that's what it's like. It's like saying, yes sir, may have another, it absolutely hurts. It absolutely sucks. And you say you want it, but you don't fucking want it. Excuse my language guys. But it's like, that's what we tell ourselves.

And then. Again, we're spinning all that [00:49:00] energy going, yeah, that's what I want, and I'm gonna hang onto it. And you spend all that energy hanging onto it, and then you have to spin all this other energy going, no. So keep that quiet. Keep that quiet. Don't even, even if you don't know what you want, that feeling of, Ooh, I want something different.

Don't, don't, don't whisper to that. Don't, don't spark the embers. Does that make sense? R

Ria: Oh, Christine, it makes a painful amount of sense. Like you can see me nodding, like, my head's gonna fall off in a minute. Like, oh my God, I'm like one of those dogs in a windshield. yeah. Um, yeah, I think, I think that's exactly it. So I guess I'm gonna throw you a question like, alright,

Christine: oh

Ria: how do we not do that? How do we

Christine: oh.

Ria: and where, where would you say, so for me, obviously, you know, like a bit about my life where I am, like I've got [00:50:00] aspirations, I wanna get my book published. I, I wanna kind of freaking clean splay of what I want. Where's a girl start? Like how do you free fall into that shit?

Christine: Well, okay, I'm put kind of my coaching hat on and well, it's not coaching 'cause I'm gonna tell you an answer and coaching is more about the question, but I'll throw you a question. So my coach, um, because again, I like this idea, but then how do you put that into play? Right.

Ria: Yeah. What's the

Christine: And the first thing, I have like four things.

It's funny 'cause I did this yesterday in my talk. The first, the, and there's these things, the first things is to start listening

Ria: Mm-hmm.

Christine: even if you can't give it, give it a breath and. Listen to, like you said, the body, Ooh, listen to and in the simple art of Not Giving a Fuck, it's a book. And they talk about, he talks about every time you bristle at something, you have a belief about it.

Does [00:51:00] it mean it's a good belief or bad belief? So what I started doing was, and this, I was already in my process of trying to figure out what I want, but I started going little pad next to my thing. Every time I was like, oh, that motherfucker, or, Ooh, that feels good. Like, I had a belief, something was ugh.

And so I would just Mark A. Little note about what it was, and then I'd go back and go, what, what's that about? What belief is that? Is that my belief is that society's belief? What do I want to carry that belief? Is it proven to be a belief or is it just bullshit? You know, why do, why am I carrying the bullshit belief?

So, so the first thing is just, I started to do little things like that to get in touch with what's, what's, what's going on, what paying attention. You know, to, to paying attention to what's going on with me. And like you said, that interaction of your life. And the second thing, um, was I started taking the next best action on everything because it's that [00:52:00] illusion that I'm, I'm, I gotta be ready, I gotta have everything done to.

But what I've realized, again, in the, well in this book of, um, the Atomic Habits, it's you, you make your, in order to be successful in making your habits, 'cause you are what your habits are, you do the little things which give you success. And so it's like, and there's a bunch of other things, but, so I would start doing the next best action.

What I knew, what I making the decision based on the knowledge that I have today. That's Claire. And so I would do this. So one of my things was in 2024, I made a business plan. Okay? Because I was like, you, I wanted to go out on my own and I wanted to do this, and I wanted to have some clarity. Okay. That business plan started my business in 2026.

Now everybody knows that I started my business in May of 2029 is when I incorporated, or 2002, May 29th, 2024 last year. [00:53:00] So, so now, but had I not had that business plan, had I not had started again putting down on paper what maybe I want, what maybe I think, and I tweaked that shit left and right and it's still an ebb and flow 'cause again, and I'll get to that.

But, so, so that was it. One of the things was what is, what is, you know, the next best course of action. It may not always be the right course of action, um, but it's like any other product that you put out or any other thing if you are willing, you know, once you put it out into the marketplace. That's when you get your response and you can pivot.

So the best next course of action doesn't mean it's the final course of action, right? It just means it's, and it keeps propelling you. 'cause then you can get more information. So whatever that is, make it small. If it needs to be small, you're ready to take a big jump. Take a big jump. But what is the [00:54:00] next thing that's gonna get you 1% closer to what you want?

Is it giving yourself a deadline on the book? Is it giving yourself, you know, what is it? Is it saying, okay, I'm gonna write for X this, this, or, or, I don't know. Do you need your final editor? You know, whatever it is. You know, you, I'm sure you have a list of things that need to be done, but just take one, don't take five of 'em.

And if that one thing requires you to have a list of five subsets, 'cause that's what I do. I roll everything up, but, and I'm gonna do 10, I'm gonna, I can't do one thing today, even though that one thing requires me to do 50 fucking things. Right? The, and then, because I'm always taking the best next course of action, then.

I'm always in movement forward, right? Even if it's small, like you can't finish the fucking rice if you don't start,

Ria: Mm-hmm.

Christine: but if I never start or I get so I start everything at once, I get overwhelmed, then I stop. So it's like take the next best course of action. Then the other two, because again, to me that is always your [00:55:00] thing.

If you are always taking the next best course of action, always taking action, then it's the tribe. Put people around you and get you a tribe that you participate in. Not one that you're just kind of laly, gagging around and not one, like you talked to me and said, Hey girl, I think it sounds like bullshit or what you, we've had these, you know, we've had this and I've got other women in my life who said, Hey listen, I know I'm gonna go kick their ass, but then I'm gonna come back and kick yours because you know better than that shit.

Ria: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Yeah. Or I've got like my friend who was like, you might wanna put that down until the 27th. Just say, you know, put people around you that know that you're seeking to move forward and that are invested in your wants. Like they want you to want that and go get it. Not just passengers on the bus that you're driving.[00:56:00]

And then the final one, which I think is so important is give yourself grace. And I have a friend, you've heard me talk about it, her name is Grace and she talks about talking to her friend Grace, like viewing herself in a chair. And it's not Grace more, it's her, it's friend Grace. And how would she talk to your, that friend?

Grace? So sometimes I sit and go, how would I talk to, if I was talk, if Rhea came to me with the same shit that I'm, what would I say to Ria? How would I, how would I encourage her? How would I be honest with her? How would I love her? How would I be gentle with her? How would I tell her to get up and move?

How would I. Say she's the most amazing thing. Of course she's gonna have doubts, but you can do this. Like, how do I give myself grace? And part of that goes back to the next course, best action, which is, I need to remember that I don't arrive. And so when I put it out there and I take that action and it comes back and it's fucked up, it wasn't the right action.

'cause in my head, everything has to be right or wrong. It was, [00:57:00] I started evaluating. It's like, oh, give it grace. Okay, that wasn't right. Okay, next. Now I know that, put it over here like, what's next? Again, giving myself that grace and not sucking on my disappointment, like a hard candy that tastes like shit, which then prevents me because I become so small and so scared to take the next right course of action, the next best course of action.

So those are kind of like, it's really funny 'cause I didn't know you were, we didn't know we were gonna do this until last night and we didn't know the topic until today. And it's funny because literally those are the four things of kind of the fuck fear framework that I, that I, you know, like really, how do I, how do I do this?

How do you get in touch and put, and it's like tell on yourself to yourself and to others. Like what is that get those ambers burning of? I don't, I mean, my first thing was I was in a women's group, strong women's network during covid. It started way [00:58:00] back then for me, and I said, I don't wanna anyone to do, and they were like, okay.

And I told on myself to them. And then every once in a while they'd be like, so what are you doing about that? How are you doing about that? What are, you know, how are you doing about that? And, but I gave it, I get it out of my head, like you were saying, outta my head and, and into the world. And I think that's so important.

And then I went, and then I started to take the next best course of action. Again, I love the consult speak, you know, this is the next best course of action. With the caveat that I may learn more and additional information later and change my mind.

Ria: Yes.

Christine: It may not be the right course of action, but this is the best of my knowledge at this point in time.

And then, 'cause then I'm always taking action. And then I find the people that want me to, to succeed

Ria: Mm-hmm.

Christine: of the heart, not just of the mind, not just of my financial bank account, but want me to succeed. And then [00:59:00] I, I give my, I I, I treat myself, I talk to friend Grace. I talk to friend Christine. I treat myself.

I would love it if the women of this world would treat themselves like the mama Bears, they are to their children or their sisters, or their aunties or their best friends. I mean, if we did that, Rita, we fucking a

Ria: Can I? We will.

Christine: we will. And we're learning how, and, and. I don't know. Thank you. Thank you. This has been good. This has been really good. I, I don't, I hope the audience has, Jo enjoyed it. Joe, I hope you've enjoyed it. Um, but I just appreciate you so much, Ms. R. And, um, we're gonna get work on getting you over across the pond.

Ria: Oh yeah.

Christine: Okay?

Ria: And thank you. It's been a dream and a treat as always.

Christine: As always.

[01:00:00]