Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

"If these masters are still continually trying to improve their own craft, I don't have any excuses."
The world's best don't reach the top and stop learning—they keep refining their craft. David Rogier, founder and CEO of MasterClass, has spent years sitting across from elite performers, athletes, artists, and entrepreneurs—and he’s discovered that excellence is less about talent than a relentless commitment to growth. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, he joins Matt Abrahams to share lessons from building a company around learning, persuasion, and communication. From earning the trust of high-profile talent to leading creative and technical teams, Rogier reveals why curiosity, adaptability, and authentic relationship-building are essential communication skills.

Takeaways:
  • Lead with curiosity. Build trust by asking thoughtful questions and focusing on the other person's needs, not your own. 
  • Never stop improving. The world's top performers continuously seek feedback, refine their skills, and embrace lifelong learning.

Activity:
  • Study an expert. Watch a communicator you admire—a speaker, leader, or interviewer—and identify three techniques they use to engage their audience. Try incorporating one of those techniques into your next presentation or meeting.

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (00:39) - The Power of Learning
  • (01:28) - Building Trust
  • (04:21) - Creating Great Content
  • (07:23) - Leading Different Teams
  • (09:45) - Learning from Masters
  • (10:54) - Communicating with a Stutter
  • (14:00) - The Final Three Questions
  • (17:39) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
David Rogier
Founder & CEO of MasterClass

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: To truly hone and
master a skill, we have to take

the time to learn from experts.

My name is Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today, I look forward to
chatting with David Rogier.

David is the founder and CEO of
MasterClass, the streaming platform

that makes it possible for anyone
to learn from the world's best.

David is passionate about democratizing
access to genius-level knowledge.

Well, David, thank you
so much for joining me.

I'm really excited for our conversation.

Shall we get started?

David Rogier: Let's do it.

Matt Abrahams: So to begin, I am
a avid participant and student of

Masterclass, and thanks to you and
your team, I'm honored that I have

a Masterclass certifications course
coming out on strategic communication.

And so thank you for that.

It was a lot of fun, and I hope
everybody gets a lot of value out of it.

Like me, you are very
passionate about education.

I'd like to start by asking
you what motivates you to help

others learn and develop skills?

David Rogier: I was raised in part
by my grandmother, and my grandmother

escaped the Holocaust, and I think
one of the things that she really

instilled in me, that education's
the only thing that someone can't

take away from somebody else.

And I think I really internalized
that at a very young age.

That definitely drove me to create
MasterClass, but also I think

probably fueled my zest for learning.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

And you've brought that learning
to lots and lots of people.

In the early days of MasterClass,
uh, you had to convince world-class

talent to trust you, a small startup.

How did you think about pitching what
you were doing to people of that nature?

David Rogier: I assumed that
it was gonna function the same

way as in the business world.

In the business world, if you know
somebody in common with somebody else,

the person makes an introduction,
you will usually talk to them.

It's not how it works in
the entertainment industry.

In fact, it's designed to do the opposite.

Every celebrity has four to
five people whose job it is,

is to not let you do that.

So every celebrity has an agent, a
manager, a PR person, sometimes a

financial advisor, and usually a spouse.

Now, of those five people,
only one of them has actual

influence over that person.

But the job of the other four is
to convince you that it's them.

But it's not.

It's only one of them.

And if you go to the wrong person,
you're gonna get a fast no.

So part of the craft
was to just learn that.

Two was then to figure out who is
that one of the five, and then how

do I pitch that one of the five?

And what I had to learn was that I have
to get them to like me and trust me.

And I can do that in a few ways.

I could associate and attach
myself to people on the project

and bring them in who they trust.

So these were film directors they'd
already worked with before, or film

directors that had won an Oscar before.

The thing about their fear is like,
is this person going to look bad?

And so how do you drop that risk?

Two was you have to get them to
actually like you and trust you.

And I had to learn the craft of that.

And I think I walked into those early
rooms thinking, "I'm pretty special.

I have a master's degree from Stanford.

My mom says I'm amazing.

This idea is going to change the world of
education." People don't care about that.

People care about themselves.

And so it was much more effective for me
to ask them questions, a lot of questions.

And when somebody asks you questions
about things that you want to

talk about, you like them more.

Now, I think there's a craft
to what questions you ask.

You have to do it something that
you're actually interested in, because

otherwise people feel that instantly.

So I'm glad to dive more into that,
but I think there is a craft to

how to pitch, and a lot of that
is relationship building for this.

Matt Abrahams: So many rich things
there that you talked about.

First, you have to start by really
appreciating the circumstance

and those who have access and
influence to the people that you're

trying to persuade or motivate.

You have to think about
how you approach them.

In your case, it was about
de-risking the reputation and really

coming from a place of authentic
curiosity to get them talking.

And I think we can all benefit from
that in anything we're pitching

or in any relationship, and you've
been quite successful at it.

Having been in the chair for a
MasterClass certificates, I have witnessed

firsthand the production quality.

That seems to be very important to you
and to your team to make sure that it

really has an aesthetic and a look.

Talk to me about where that comes from
and how those listening who aren't

going to have access to the crews
and the expertise that you have, how

important is it to really think through
the visuals, the experience, even

for those of us who are just doing
virtual calls and video conferencing?

David Rogier: Part of our success is that
our classes do not look like a class.

They look like a Netflix movie.

Now, it's not just the look, it's also
then the production value, how engaging

it is, and all those other things.

I had filmed some stuff on my own for
test shoots, and they looked horrible.

And so we went to our friends and
people we knew, and one of the

first people we went to was actually
a professor here at Stanford.

His name is Professor Bill Guttentag.

He's, he's an Oscar-winning film director.

And I, I got introduced to him, and
I was like, "Hey, I'm really stuck.

Our stuff looks bad." You
know, I was like, "Any advice?

What types of people?

What type of gear?" And he's like,
"You're not gonna ask me to shoot?"

I'm like, "You're willing to shoot it?"

He's like, "Yeah, sounds awesome."
So Bill shot a bunch of our first

classes, and that really upleveled us.

The other person was Jay Roach, who had
a really big impact on that too, and

also shot some of our first few classes.

I think that did a couple things.

One, it achieved what we wanted to on the
engagement side and how good it looked.

Two, it brought down the risk for the
instructors, 'cause if Bill Guttentag

and Jay Roach are gonna film this, I've
seen their stuff, it's really good.

Okay, I know I'm gonna look pretty good.

So if you're at home doing this,
I think, think a lot about what

is the form factor supposed to be.

So for example, if it's live Zoom
calls that you're doing, then, like,

it should look like a Zoom call.

But I think there's opportunities
to make that look good, and I think

some aren't that expensive to do.

And I think one of the best ways to figure
that out is look at two or three films or

TV shows or YouTube things that you think
look really good, and break down yourself,

or find a friend who knows more than
you, break down how did they make that.

And oftentimes you're gonna be like,
"Oh, it's the location's actually more

important than I thought." 'Cause the
location adds depth, lighting, everything.

So you're like, "You know what? Maybe
I should just invest in where I shoot

and the time of day." And you're
gonna start to see things like that.

That's not that expensive, but
that actually has a huge impact.

Matt Abrahams: Really important point
I wanna put an exclamation point on,

which is think about the environment
in which you present yourself, and

second, look at and observe others that
you enjoy, that you think add value,

and then explore how they do that.

And like you said, it's not
that expensive, but it can

make a tremendous difference.

The content is important,
but the experience of the

content is equally important.

I really like that.

As a leader, you lead people who are
very technical, very content specific,

but also others who are very creative.

That can be hard in terms of management
and leadership style to lead people

whose goal is the creative and those
who are the business and more technical.

Any advice and guidance to our listeners
who find themselves in a similar role?

What helps you manage those
different types of people?

David Rogier: You have to adapt.

I think it helps to go
deep with some of them.

So if you're working with folks in
film, sit in the edit bays with them.

Watch as sound is mixed.

Get deep so that you know each
step of it and what it takes.

In the same way, if it's engineering
or marketing or whatever, I have

found that my style has to change.

So on the content side, creatives
respond much stronger to a

note that is a high-level note.

"Hey, in, in this portion I find
my attention is starting to wane.

You know, like, why is that?

Or what are we able to do about
it?" And they need just high-level

note, and it's not you solving it
for them, it's just the observation.

I found, though, like, on the
marketing side or on the product

side, folks like more specific notes.

If you're like, "You know, this page, I'm
just not feeling to click," they're like,

"What the hell does that mean?" Versus
like, "Hey, the call to action, I think,

isn't bold enough, isn't strong enough."
Like, okay, yes, I can work on that.

So I found that I have to
change the altitude almost.

Matt Abrahams: That agility all of
us can develop, but it's really the

sensitivity to what does this person
or these type of people in these

roles, what do they respond best to?

And I really like this idea of giving
feedback through questions and then

also being able to get very specific
to what your experience is and how

that relates to perhaps others.

David Rogier: And it's hard because,
like, when I'm tired or frustrated, I

just want to say, "Please change this to
this and this to this." And I've done that

before, and it's not nearly as effective
'cause the mental shortcut I'm taking is

I know more than that person, and I don't.

And so it feels good at the time
and it's easier to do, but it

usually ends up a worse result.

Matt Abrahams: In the moment, it might
feel like it's solving the situation

or the problem, but in fact, it might
be causing damage in the future.

David Rogier: Yes.

Matt Abrahams: I know this is a
completely unfair question, but across

the content that you have created and
brought to the world, is there one area

or one lesson that you've learned that
has really profoundly impacted you?

David Rogier: I mean, we have sat
across from 300 of the best in the

world, from Christina Aguilera to
Steph Curry to Matt Abrahams, and I

think I had this assumption that once
you reach the top, you just chill.

Like Christina can sing when she wants
to, Steph can play how long he wants

to, and that, that you're in a state
where you can choose when to invest time

and you don't need to invest that much.

Boy, was I wrong.

Every instructor, as we film on
any cut, is asking us for notes.

Once the class is done, we're in
the testing phase, instructors want

all the input they already gave.

Once a class is live, most of them
send us an email or call us and be

like, "I want to change this. I think
this is able to be improved." And I

realize that if these masters are still
continually trying to improve their

own craft, I don't have any excuses.

Like I gotta keep doing that.

And so I think that was a lot
of personal growth for me.

Matt Abrahams: I think that's a wonderful
lesson, that the people at the top

of their game are still working and
striving, and perhaps that's what helped

them get to the top of their game.

I'd like to get personal.

You and I talked about this a little bit.

So you have a stutter.

It is something you've
had for your whole life.

What have you learned about
communication through having a

stutter, and what has it changed?

And what advice would you give to people
who might have some speech impediment,

everything from an accent to a stutter?

David Rogier: It was really hard as a kid.

I mean, I was teased for it.

I think teachers in school didn't know how
to handle it, so some would not call on me

'cause, you know, out of positive intent,
but not wanting me to have to speak.

When I was called on to read something,
if you stutter, it's very difficult

because one of the tools you use is
you substitute words, and you can't

do that when you read something.

I think what it made me, throughout
my life, is my empathy for people in

expressing themselves is much higher.

I think I'm much more aware of speech, and
I told you, I think one of the things I

started doing as a kid was watching people
give speeches and just being more aware

of the, of the mechanics that they use.

So became, I became much
more obsessed with it.

I think my approach, I think my
parents had a big impact on, was, you

know, when I was a kid, my parents'
approach was, "We expect you to talk

and communicate. You can stutter, you
stutter, but we don't expect you to let

that block you from doing anything."
And so when they had friends over, the

expectation was I would sit with their
friends and join them in conversation.

And so I think their very much approach
was, "I'm gonna give you a hug, but

you just are gonna keep going." So
I think that's probably part of my

appreciation on the oratory side.

Matt Abrahams: That notion of taking
what you're dealt with and managing

it, I think, is important for
everybody, be it an accent, a stutter.

I'm noticing a theme, David, across
everything we've talked about.

Tenacity plays a role.

We talked about tenacity in pursuing
getting people to sign up when you

were just starting out, tenacity in the
work that you admire and the masters

you bring on, and tenacity in your
own life to just keep going with your

communication, and that's something
that I think all of us can benefit from.

And it will look different for
all of us, but it's important.

David Rogier: Yeah, I don't think
life is worth to live without that.

You have to work hard.

And I think sometimes it surprises.

Like, I remember I was in, in some
group, we had an exercise where we would

give people feedback on how they, how
the person talks, and I was shocked.

I got notes on my stutter.

And what the group said, the
effects were, it was the opposite

of what I had in my head.

In my head, makes me sound less smart,
makes me not get the idea out, people

get bored, the people get annoyed, people
have the urge to say the word for you.

And the feedback from the group was
like, "Oh, that doesn't go through our

head." I'm like, "What?" I'm like, "What
does go through your head?" They're

like, "Oh, I'm more endeared to you.

Like, I'm seeing this
is difficult for you.

I'm more, like, attached to you." I'm
like, "I'm sorry, what?" And it's just

for 28 years of my life, I had this
one story in my head, and that was not

the story everybody else was having.

And you're like, and I think
that's true for so many of the

things that we are insecure about.

Matt Abrahams: What a
lovely gift to get that.

And perhaps there's a lesson in there
for all of us to seek out feedback

from trusted others who can help us
check our assumptions, because you

had an assumption going into this
that was contrary to what you learned.

This whole conversation
has been fantastic, David.

As you well know, I end
with three questions.

One I make up just for you,
and two that I've been asking

everybody for a long time.

Are you up for that?

David Rogier: Let's do it.

Matt Abrahams: Another personal question.

You and I talked on our way over
to this conversation, that you

and I are both martial artists.

Tenacity is part of that as well.

What draws you to the martial arts, and
are there any lessons that you've learned?

I, I've learned a lot of
lessons for life in the dojo.

I'm curious what draws
you and what lessons?

David Rogier: Part of what draws me
in, I like it that for the hour, hour

and a half I'm there, you can't think
of anything else, 'cause otherwise

you are gonna get choked out.

I also, it makes me so much more
aware of things I wasn't aware of.

The angle of my wrist, the,
how I'm shifting my, my weight.

And there's an appreciation of craft and
skill that was invisible to me before.

I didn't even know, I never even
thought of those things before.

So there's appreciation there.

There is a humility, because you
get your butt kicked all the time.

Matt Abrahams: There's nothing
like the immediate feedback

you get in a physical activity.

There's no if, ands, and buts.

You get the feedback, both good and bad.

And I totally resonate when you say you
become aware of things that you didn't

even know that you didn't know you knew.

And I totally appreciate that
presence that it requires.

And these are skills that anybody
can find in any physical activity.

It doesn't have to be grappling with
somebody or throwing a kick or a punch.

It could be walking in nature.

But I really like that you see that.

Question number two, who's a
communicator that you admire and why?

David Rogier: There are a lot.

I'm gonna pick one that isn't as expected.

Vintage Jesse Jackson.

There's a speech he gave in 1984 when he
was running to be the Democratic nominee

for president, and he gave the
speech in a church in Philadelphia.

The speech is remarkable.

Matt Abrahams: Amazing example.

He's clearly a, a, an
amazing communicator.

Final question, David.

What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

David Rogier: I think you've got to
figure out, one is, what does that

person actually want and need right now?

This is another part of your, of yours.

Then the ability to change and adapt that
on the fly when you see they've done it.

And then keeping, like,
the eyes on the prize.

What I mean by this is you might
be in a negotiation where somebody

just needs to vent, and when they
vent, they're gonna say things that

you probably do not agree with.

But if your eye's on the prize and the
prize is to close a deal, you don't need

to argue about each of those things.

You just let the person talk.

You say you've hear, you heard
them, and you try to figure

out how to move things along.

But it's very easy to be like, "Whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't agree

to parts two, eight, and twelve
that you just said." But doing that

isn't gonna actually solve anything.

Matt Abrahams: So it's about audience.

Make sure you understand what they need.

Yeah.

It's about agility to adjust to what
happens and then that focus on what

your ultimate goal is, regardless
of some of the hiccups and backwards

steps that happen along the way.

David, this has been a
fantastic conversation.

Sharing your motivations, your
tenacity are great insights for all

of us and, and a role model for what
we can achieve, and thank you for

putting out educational content that
we can all benefit from and grow with.

David Rogier: Oh my God, of course,
and thanks for being a part of it.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining
us for another episode of Think

Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about communication in
a variety of contexts, please check

out our many back catalog episodes.

This episode was produced by
Katherine Reed, Alex McCarthy,

Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with
special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.

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