222. Creating a Logic Model: Help Fundraise, Gain Clarity, & Build Team Unity with Kayce Strader of Save Nine Consulting

Logic Model

 

A logic model is a tool used by nonprofits to illustrate their impact. It is a one-page explanation of the connections between what you plan to put into a program and what you expect to deliver. It can serve as a powerful tool for focusing and articulating vision. It also serves as a built-in monitoring system to check in on programs, compare to goals, and make adjustments when needed. Finally, it can also increase donors and funders’ trust in the organization that is willing and able to strategically plan programs, measure their effectiveness, and prove the value of each investment.

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The logic model does three main things:

-    It connects the dots for donors and funders between what you say you need and what you promise to produce.

-    It builds credibility for your organization because you clearly show the logic behind your decisions – why you decided to do what you do and how you can prove it worked.

-    It unites the focus of staff around the key deliverables in a program.

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They are usually constructed around just one program, with many nonprofits building a logic model for each major program they have. You can make a logic model for an existing or planned program.

 

The Five Categories:

 

Inputs:

 

Nickname: The Recipe

Question: What Do We Need?

 

This category captures all you plan to put into the particular program. It includes materials, supplies, staff time, building usage, curriculum, in-kind donations, etc… anything it takes to make the program run. Think of it as “the recipe”.

 

Activity:

 

Nickname: The Action

Question: What Will We Do With our Program?

 

This is what you plan to do with all of the inputs to accomplishing your desired result. It is a straightforward listing of the activities you plan to do. This could include things like classroom instruction, live events, seminars, free lunches, etc. This is the action that you will do.

 

Outputs:

 

Nickname: The Results

 

Question: What happened?

 

This is what you expect to happen as a natural result of your activity. This is NOT a measure of effectiveness, but a measure of what happened. If the activity was to hand out fliers, your output would be number of fliers handed out. Many nonprofits focus on measuring and communicating outputs. If the activity was giving seminars around the world, an output could be number of miles flown by instructors. Outputs will almost always begin with “number of x.”

 

Outcomes:

 

Nickname: The Change

 

Question: What Good Did it Do?

 

This is perhaps the most important element of the logic model. Outputs are the measurements that capture what changed from how things were before you did your activity. Strong outcomes will show positive changes in areas that logically connect to your program’s intended impact. These measurements require prior planning, because you will need baselines to illustrate where the population was before your intervention and where they are now as a direct result of your action. Outcomes will almost always start with “percentage change in x.”

 

Impact:

 

Nickname: The Hope

 

Question: What Are We Going to Change?

 

The impact portion of a logic model is a simple, straightforward statement explaining what you hope to see for this population 8-10 years from now. 

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Find an example on our website under the tab "downloadables".
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Contact Kayce at http://savenineconsulting.com/ and find out more at www.youcanmentor.com
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Please follow @youcanmentor on social media and give us a 5 star rating! If you are a part of a mentoring organization, we'd love to get to know you! Please reach out to us and we can spotlight your org on the pod or on our website. 

Creators & Guests

Host

Zachary Garza

Founder of Forerunner Mentoring & You Can Mentor // Father to the Fatherless // Author

What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Mentoring Podcast?

You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community.

We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to [e-mail], and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.

Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.

Zach Garza: 00:02

You can mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring organizations through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples. Learn more at you can mentor.com or follow us on social media. You can mentor. Today on the You Can Mentor podcast, we have Casey Strader from Save 9 Consulting, and we are talking logic models. A logic model is a 1 page connection between what you plan to put into your program and what you expect to deliver.

Zach Garza: 00:36

It really does connect the dots between donors and funders, between what you say you need and what you promise to produce. Logic models are an incredible tool, not just to raise money, but also to support and encourage you and your staff as you lead your mentoring organizations. So if you're a mentoring leader, check out today's podcast, share it, give it a 5 star. We're talking logic models, folks. And remember, you can mentor.

Zach Garza: 01:09

Alright. Welcome everybody to the You Can Mentor podcast. This is Zach, and I am here with Casey Strader. Casey, say hi.

Kayce Strader: 01:18

Hi, everybody.

Zach Garza: 01:19

Casey has, this is her second time on our podcast. She, was on our podcast back in, I think, 2021 talking about, I think, how to run a healthy nonprofit. And so she's kinda my go to person in regards to all things like talking about boards, talking about strategy, talking about logic models, like all of the all of the big things I call Casey. So but yeah. So, Casey, why don't you tell us a tad bit about yourself?

Kayce Strader: 01:50

Sure. So I think we've been working together for quite a while. I don't remember what year it was we started with 4 Runner, but I, love helping nonprofits do a couple different things. The first one is I love to help nonprofits explain why people should join them in their work. Like, how do you get people around you, to join in?

Kayce Strader: 02:13

And I love helping them do that better. And then I also love to help them enjoy each other while they do it. So I like to help boards and staff teams understand each other better, communicate better, and have a better time together while they're doing the great work that they're doing.

Zach Garza: 02:29

So I think the first time we met, you, worked with my board, and I wanna say it was, like, 2016.

Kayce Strader: 02:36

That was a long time ago.

Zach Garza: 02:37

Golly. That's nuts.

Kayce Strader: 02:39

Yeah. So I especially love to help boards work together because they're such a, like, a a powerhouse, and, they can do so much good for the organization when they're leveraged well. But a lot of times, they aren't. Or I think in Forerunner's case, one of the things we were talking about was, like, the life cycles, like the life stages of a nonprofit, and how you go from being, like, an infant nonprofit to, like, a a toddler, and then a young one, and then a teenager. Like, how do you grow, and how does your board then grow along with you, and what are those growing pains look like?

Kayce Strader: 03:15

So I remember that. I remember that, retreat that we had with your board. That was great. So, yeah, I've been working with nonprofits since about, 2009, and I have a master's degree in a nonprofit organization from UNT, and then a communications degree from Texas Tech, which is my true alma mater, GoTech. And, I'm married to Sam, who's awesome, and we have 3 sweet kiddos, Meg, Tom, and Clay.

Zach Garza: 03:43

That's awesome. Thanks, Casey. So Casey's helped us do a strategic plan. She's helped out with our board. But the thing that we will focus on today is called a logic model.

Zach Garza: 03:52

And so I came to Casey in 2019 asking for help on how to fundraise. And she said, well, have, you ever heard of a logic model? And I said, case you have no idea what you're talking about. And then for the next 18 months, she just kinda helped us create a logic model that, honestly, that kinda propelled us into the next season, of how to fundraise. And so it's very, very helpful, very effective in regards to how to share your message and how to how to, recruit people to hop on board.

Zach Garza: 04:31

And I personally believe that every not for profit needs a logic model. And so the hope today is after hearing this podcast and after checking out some of the things that we will put on our website, that you will be able to create one for your nonprofit. So why don't we just start from there? And, Casey, what is a logic model?

Kayce Strader: 04:54

A logic model is a tool, that helps you focus and explain your vision. That's what it is. So imagine you have a toolbox. Ultimately, what you're gonna use that tool for is to raise more money, but it's gonna do a couple of other things. It's kind of like the Leatherman in your toolbox.

Kayce Strader: 05:16

Okay? It's gonna accomplish several things for you at once, but you have to figure out how to use it. It's not gonna be the easiest tool to just pick up and grab, but it's going to be probably the most functional. It's gonna be the most versatile. So it's a tool.

Kayce Strader: 05:34

A logic model is a tool. You have to learn how to use it. Once you know how to use it, you can use it anywhere. And I think a lot of nonprofits tend to think that the be maybe the only tool they have for fundraising is find rich board members. Right?

Kayce Strader: 05:49

Like, just just get people who are really connected, and they'll give, and then we can do what we need to do. And I haven't really seen that work very well for many organizations long term. This is a really effective tool for the long haul.

Zach Garza: 06:04

Yeah. So after I got some people on my team to to create 1, I was blown away by how it really was able to connect the dots as to what I was saying that we needed and what I was saying that I would produce. Mhmm. Oh.

Kayce Strader: 06:23

What you make with it.

Zach Garza: 06:24

Yeah. And so and and, honestly, this this gave me so much confidence to go into any potential donor and say, hey. Look. Here's what we need. Here's where we are.

Zach Garza: 06:38

Here's why we need it, and here's what we'll do if we get it. And that just made the ask so much easier. And, honestly, it it was so easy for some of our donors just to kinda to kinda grab onto. So

Kayce Strader: 06:55

Yeah. Yeah. And I gave you kind of the the figurative answer there when you ask what it is. Literally, we're talking about one piece of paper. Right?

Kayce Strader: 07:04

We're not talking about a huge long document that you have to, you know, have this huge retreat for every year. We're talking about one piece of paper, but a couple of tough questions. But if we can get the answers to those questions, if we can get everybody on the same page about what those answers are, then we really can't go anywhere. So a logic model is one piece of paper that's gonna ask us 5 different questions. We're gonna answer those 5 questions, and then that's the tool that we have to go raise money.

Zach Garza: 07:36

And I know for me, answering these specific five questions really helped sharpen the focus of our staff, and it kinda created a target for us all to aim for. And it was awesome. So, so, Casey, tell us about these 5 questions. What are the 5, or what are the 5 things that we need, to create a logic model?

Kayce Strader: 08:05

Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. So we're gonna have, 5 categories, and you can organize this in all sorts of different ways. Some people like to write it out.

Kayce Strader: 08:17

I think that the best way is just to have 5 columns. Right? And so across the top, you're going to have, your first category, which is your inputs. And your inputs is everything that you're going to, expand into a program. Right?

Kayce Strader: 08:32

The next one is you're going to have your, activity. This is what you're gonna do. You're gonna have outputs. This is the kind of natural outcome of what you did. You're gonna have outcomes, and then you're gonna have impact.

Kayce Strader: 08:47

So it's a very high level view of the 5, but I kinda like to talk about them in order of importance. Right? And so to do that, we look at the far right hand side of this thing. We fast forward to the end, and we'd look at the impact. So that impact is going to be really the first question we need to answer.

Kayce Strader: 09:08

And impact is, what are we going to change? Not tomorrow and not next year, but 8 to 10 years from now. Why are we doing this? What are we trying to do? So 8 to 10 years from now, what do we wanna see change in the community around us, for the community we're serving?

Kayce Strader: 09:26

What do we change? And the thing about impact is you never really exclusively own it. Right? Because people are going to be affected by lots of different things, maybe even more than one organization. So you're not saying that you are going to be the sole exclusive creator of that impact, but it is what you wanna see.

Kayce Strader: 09:47

So 8 to 10 years from now, what are you hopeful for? Like, why are you doing this? And if you can have one impact statement that everybody agrees with, then we all know what we're aiming toward.

Zach Garza: 09:59

Yes. So, like, for me, we did after school. We did mentoring. We served mom. But our impact statement would be something like, like and, Casey, I could be way off on this.

Zach Garza: 10:13

So if I am, you can tell me. But we want 80% of our young men to attend secondary education in some form or fashion.

Kayce Strader: 10:28

Yeah. So and I think back when we did that, we even said a little bit more than that. Right?

Zach Garza: 10:35

Yeah.

Kayce Strader: 10:35

It wasn't just that they were going to attend secondary education, but they were going to be faithful in their families. They were going to contribute to their community. Like, it was like three things

Zach Garza: 10:46

Yes.

Kayce Strader: 10:47

That describe these boys as men.

Zach Garza: 10:49

Mhmm.

Kayce Strader: 10:50

Like, what kind of men do we want them to be 8 to 10 years from now?

Zach Garza: 10:55

Yes.

Kayce Strader: 10:55

And their their mom is going to affect that. Right? The church they attend is going to affect that. There's going to be teachers who have part of that impact. Like, it's not just us.

Kayce Strader: 11:05

It's not just forerunner. But what kind of men do we want them to be?

Zach Garza: 11:10

Perfect.

Kayce Strader: 11:10

And so that that's the big question.

Zach Garza: 11:12

Yeah. I think we said something to the degree of we want them to be in some kind of school after high school. We want them to be faithful in their faith, and we wrote out what that looked like. And then we wanted them to be positive, positive men in society, and we said what that looked like. Yeah.

Zach Garza: 11:32

And so what's so cool about that impact statement is you can go kid by kid and say, hey. Did we accomplish this with this kid? And it's either a yes or it's a no. So Mhmm.

Kayce Strader: 11:47

Yeah. Yeah. It it does need to be something that's measurable. Even if you're not the only organization affecting it, you need to know eventually, like, are we doing it? Are we getting there?

Kayce Strader: 11:58

So for organizations that have been working for a given amount of time, like, say, 15 years, Are they already starting to see some of that or not? But that impact statement is gonna be something that everybody agrees to. We can all point to it. It's like the it's the scoreboard. Right?

Kayce Strader: 12:13

Like, we all say we know what we're aiming toward. That's what we're trying to accomplish. And we wanna be able to know if we did it or not.

Zach Garza: 12:23

Exactly. So impact, what we hope to see in 8 to 10 years. What are we going to change?

Kayce Strader: 12:31

Yeah. What are we gonna change? What's going to, what's gonna be different because we existed and because we touch these kids at this point in their life? Like, what, what will we move?

Zach Garza: 12:45

And I know for me, this this was super encouraging because so often I'm asking myself, man, am I even making a difference? But this this impact statement helped me say, okay. I hung out with this kid, and I can see them trying to make, specific progress in this area, which is part of our impact statement. This is very, very helpful. Yep.

Zach Garza: 13:13

So

Kayce Strader: 13:14

Yeah. Absolutely. And for some organizations, this is gonna pretty closely mirror their vision statement. It may closely mirror their mission statement. It it doesn't have to.

Kayce Strader: 13:26

But you also don't need to think that you're completely reinventing the wheel. You're probably gonna repeat or reflect some of the really important words from statements you already have, mission or vision. And the other thing here to point out at the beginning is you can have a logic model for each program that you have in your organization, but your impact statement is gonna be cut and paste. Right? Like, because all of your programs within your organization, unless your scope has crept really far over, should all be pointing at that same level of impact, that same type of impact.

Kayce Strader: 14:03

So you may have 5 different programs, 5 logic models. You're gonna have the same impact statement for all of them.

Zach Garza: 14:11

That's right. This might be out of bounds here, so tell me if I am. But k. What what it how does, like, your, how does your theory of change, come into this?

Kayce Strader: 14:26

Yeah. A lot for a while, people have used those terms pretty interchangeably.

Zach Garza: 14:31

Okay.

Kayce Strader: 14:32

Holodic model and a theory of change. A theory of change is much more connected as a document to the community around you. So most of the time, your theory of change is going to include lots of other factors outside of you and how you fit within the wider community. It's more of a a big scope survey of, say, your town, your community, something like that. And the theory of changes tends to be much more collaborative.

Kayce Strader: 14:58

A logic model is much more siloed. Right? We're gonna look at 1 program, and we're gonna take that program all the way through.

Zach Garza: 15:06

Okay. That's awesome. Thanks. Okay. So what's next?

Kayce Strader: 15:11

Okay. So we're going backward. Right? So we've got this, and, hopefully, listeners can go and and look at an example of this. But we've started on the far right hand side of the page.

Kayce Strader: 15:22

We have looked at impact. That's where we're headed. But we know that that impact is gonna be a little ways away. Like, 8 to 10 years, at least, we're looking at longer term consequences. The next thing we wanna look at now, we're going to back up and say, okay.

Kayce Strader: 15:40

How do we get there? So we're gonna come all the way back, and we're gonna say, what are we working toward? And so for a given program, that you decide you're gonna do or maybe that you're already doing, because you can do this for an existing program or you can use it to create a new program. It can be for either one. But take, say pick 1.

Kayce Strader: 16:02

What's a a program at 4 Runner that you would, Like, after school or moms or 1 on 1 mentoring?

Zach Garza: 16:10

Let's do 1 on 1 mentoring.

Kayce Strader: 16:13

Yeah. Okay. So the 1 on 1 mentoring. So what you wanna do is back up and say, what's it gonna take for us to put this on? Like, what is this going to cost?

Kayce Strader: 16:23

Not just the the line item in the budget that you can, but also as an organization, what kind of skin do we have to put in the game? Like, what are we gonna put on the line for this? How many volunteer hours is it gonna be? How many staff hours is it gonna be? Anything that you are investing and putting in, you're gonna wanna bullet point out in that category because you wanna be able to show donors and funders, this is what it's gonna cost.

Kayce Strader: 16:53

Right up front, this is the whole list of needs for where we wanna go, what we're already investing and putting in. And so you can do it as a snapshot of where you are, or you can do it as where you wanna be. Right? So it may say, like, right now, we've got, this amount of our budget. This may be volunteer hours, but we want to take it and have this given increase.

Kayce Strader: 17:19

And so that line of inputs is gonna be everything you're investing to make the program happen.

Zach Garza: 17:26

That's awesome. So what do we need? And tell us what is tell us what's it gonna take. Mhmm. The inputs for for us specifically, and like I said, we we will toss an example on our website.

Zach Garza: 17:42

But

Kayce Strader: 17:42

Mhmm.

Zach Garza: 17:43

For where for where we were at one point, we needed, you know, $25,000. Mhmm. And that that includes staff salary. We need 2 staff members. We need 35 volunteers who give 1 hour a week.

Zach Garza: 18:06

Mhmm. We need office space, and we need safety training

Kayce Strader: 18:13

Yeah.

Zach Garza: 18:14

And background checks. Background checks.

Kayce Strader: 18:16

Yeah. You need what's the onboarding look like for those 35 volunteers? Do you have to do any advertising to reach them? Any kind of input that it's gonna take to get that program going and sustained is gonna go in there. It's like the it's like the recipe list at the beginning of the recipe.

Kayce Strader: 18:36

Right? Like, what's going in?

Zach Garza: 18:39

That's awesome. That's really easy to understand. It's the recipe.

Kayce Strader: 18:44

The recipe list. So once you have that, right, so say it's the recipe list. Now the next question is,

Zach Garza: 18:52

what what are

Kayce Strader: 18:53

you gonna do with it? Like, what will your activities be? So that's the next column. We've got inputs. We're going to activities.

Kayce Strader: 19:00

So for 1 on 1 mentoring, that's pretty straightforward because your activity is going to be, 1 on 1 mentoring.

Zach Garza: 19:07

Right.

Kayce Strader: 19:07

Like, these guys are going now one activity is gonna be, like, the actual time sitting down with the guys. But maybe, you know, they also have to chart. You know, maybe there's other things that they have to do, and you can include that. But this is just really trying to capture what is it that you're going to do with all of these inputs. Like, what activity will you perform?

Kayce Strader: 19:33

I know for the after school program, we had some in there that were, like, number of, I'm sorry. Not number of it was, like, reading lessons. We were gonna do, like, a reading curriculum. There were gonna be games. Like, what are you going to do with that amount of time?

Kayce Strader: 19:49

Like, bible memory verses, whatever it was. Like, what activities will you be doing in this amount of time?

Zach Garza: 19:56

Yeah. So for our 1 on 1 mentoring, we said 1 hour every 2 weeks spent, working with our mentors trying to train them. 1 hour every 2 weeks spent between the mentor and the kid at or after school program. 1 to 2 hours every 2 weeks spent with their family. Mhmm.

Zach Garza: 20:17

And then 2 hours of time every month spent at our events.

Kayce Strader: 20:22

Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking of events, because that's part of the program. It's the regular day in, day out, but it is a big activity that you're gonna do, is that you will have, like, family events where the mentors would be with the boys and their families then. Yeah, so, events would be one of those for sure.

Zach Garza: 20:40

That's awesome.

Kayce Strader: 20:41

Yep. And this lets donors and funders look at a glance and understand what you're doing. And and there is this curse of knowledge that happens where you're so intimately acquainted with the details of what you're doing that it just you just have this assumption that donors will understand all the things that 1 on 1 mentoring means. Right? But they may not have ever been involved in something like that.

Kayce Strader: 21:06

They may not know that you have events. They may not know how much training goes into it. And this keeps those details from falling through the cracks. It actually breaks them up and highlights them so someone can read very quickly and see, oh, wow. You're gonna you're gonna do quite a few things.

Kayce Strader: 21:21

That makes sense. This is what you're putting in. This is what you're doing with it.

Zach Garza: 21:24

And, like, I know for me, sometimes I forget how much we do. And so Yeah. And so I get so nervous. I'm like, oh my gosh. I am about to ask this guy for $10,000.

Zach Garza: 21:35

I'm about to ask this guy for $5,000. But then when I sit down with my logic model, it it actually is so encouraging because I'm like, oh my gosh. We we actually do a ton with these kids.

Kayce Strader: 21:47

Why wouldn't he want to?

Zach Garza: 21:48

Exactly. Exactly.

Kayce Strader: 21:50

Why wouldn't he want to? Yeah. And it it is that kind of helpful tool of just talking notes. Right? Like, because you can read through that list, and you can think of examples of, like, a really fun event that you had recently or a great conversation or a really good question that came up in training.

Kayce Strader: 22:08

And you can use that even as a conversation piece, like, as that third object to point to and kinda bounce through as you're having that conversation.

Zach Garza: 22:16

Yeah. That's great. Okay. What's up next? We're talking outputs.

Kayce Strader: 22:21

Yeah. Okay. So our next category is outputs. And, the next 2 sound kind of similar. Right?

Kayce Strader: 22:29

Because we've got outputs and we've got outcomes. And, so I'll I'll talk about, outputs first, but we're gonna kinda have a conversation about both because this is the most important section. I mean, absolutely, impact is where we're headed. That's why we're doing what we're doing. But in terms of the usefulness of the tool, the divide between outputs and outcomes is the most important part of this whole thing.

Kayce Strader: 22:53

And, actually, I think it's the thing that most nonprofits get wrong most often. So what an output is, is it's what happened after your activity. It's just what happened. And it really has no connection to skill or effectiveness or or anything like that. It's just what happened.

Kayce Strader: 23:15

Right? So for example, if what our, activity was was handing out flyers, then our output is gonna be the number of flyers handed out. It has nothing to do with how many people read them. It has nothing to do with how compelling the flyers were. It had nothing to do with how many sales were made after we handed out the flyers, if that's what we were doing.

Kayce Strader: 23:40

It's just what happened. And so our output is going to be the natural result of our activity. So for example, in this logic model, I think we had something like number of direct hours mentoring. It was one of our main outputs.

Zach Garza: 23:59

Yeah. So our outputs was number of hours mentored, and then we had, you know, we had 28 kids paired with a mentor for a long term relationship. Mhmm. We had 90% of mentors visited their kid outside of the after school program every other week. Mhmm.

Zach Garza: 24:20

And then we had 50% of mentors visited their kid once a week at the after school program.

Kayce Strader: 24:26

Yeah.

Zach Garza: 24:27

So we have our inputs. Hey. Here is what we need. We are have our activities. Hey.

Zach Garza: 24:32

Here's what we did. And then what happened? We matched we matched mentors with kids, and then

Kayce Strader: 24:53

What good did it do?

Zach Garza: 24:54

Exactly.

Kayce Strader: 24:55

Right? We didn't talk about it. The outputs do not capture any change. They just capture activity. And so I always give this example.

Kayce Strader: 25:07

I kind of collect the collateral materials that we get mailed by different nonprofits and stuff, and I always like, I I just look at it with probably a bit of a critical eye. But I I got this, we got this mailer from a missions organization that we had donated to. And it was their end of year mailer. And the theme of it on the front, it was kinda like their annual report at the end of the year. And it had a globe on it, and it had these planes.

Kayce Strader: 25:34

And the plane the little planes were, like, crisscrossing the globe with, like, flight paths all around them. And that was the theme of it. And you opened it up, and it had all these really big numbers. Right? It had, like, numbers of miles flown by these missionaries and number of trips and and all these things.

Kayce Strader: 25:53

And I remember thinking, well, did it work? Like, did it matter? Did it did it change anything? Like, your people flew a really long way, but should they have flown less? Like, should they have flown more?

Kayce Strader: 26:09

I don't know. I'm just looking at this thinking, I don't really care as a donor how many miles your people flew. But I can promise you what happened is it was almost time to make that thing, and they needed some numbers for it. They needed to show what they had done, and some of the easiest numbers to find were how many miles they'd flown.

Zach Garza: 26:35

Right.

Kayce Strader: 26:35

Right? Because you don't have to plan ahead to measure that. And that's a key point of this difference we're gonna talk about with outputs and outcomes. You don't have to plan ahead to measure your outputs. You can look back and just measure what happened.

Kayce Strader: 26:49

Right? Like, well, just look up the tickets. Just look up what we bought. And I'm sure some poor lady in the office was tasked with, like, figuring out the numbers of miles that these people flew. And it was a great big number, and it seemed impressive.

Kayce Strader: 27:05

So they put it there. But I don't know if it was the right number because I don't know what changed. And we didn't give to them because we don't want to give so that missionaries can fly around a whole bunch. That's not important to us. Like, that doesn't change what we want to help change.

Kayce Strader: 27:26

And so that's an example that I always give of, like, a really big impressive number that seems like they did something. But it's just what happened. And that is a big difference between an output and an outcome. We're talking about what happened versus what changed. And so outputs are just gonna be a list of what happened because of the activity that you did.

Kayce Strader: 27:50

It's important, but it's not the most important. And we're gonna divide how we talk about them.

Zach Garza: 27:56

And I know for me, guys, I'm not down with the numbers. I just wanna help kids. But whenever I started to, get to know Casey and learn about learn about a logic model, I began to get really interested in all of the data because it helped me get motivated to spend time with kids. And whenever we give out these surveys and when we figure out where kids are and then they come into our after school or 1 on 1 mentoring and then here's the change that happened, that spurred me on. And so while my first hope to create a logic model was to fundraise, it did so much more than that.

Kayce Strader: 28:44

Yeah.

Zach Garza: 28:44

It helped me become more and more inspired to serve. And it also helped us ask some, you know, really big questions. Like, we found out through all the after school programs and through all the events and through all of the mentoring, we were spending, like, a ridiculous amount of time with each kid per year. It was, like, 700 hours. And we started asking ourselves, Could we get the same result with 500 hours?

Zach Garza: 29:14

Could we get the same with 300 hours? And so, like, we started asking ourselves those, and we started just to see how we could get the maximum amount of result while, trying to be the best stewards with all of our staff and all of our time and all of our money. And so And what So yeah.

Kayce Strader: 29:33

Just to spread there is an outcome question. Right? Like, and and so let's talk about that section real quick. The outcome is gonna be everything that changed. Output is almost always gonna start with number of.

Kayce Strader: 29:45

Like, you listed off number of hours, this number of, people here, number of visits here. So your outputs are just gonna be a pretty simple measurement, just what happened. Out Outcomes, however, are almost always going to start with percentage change. Right? Like, percentage change of, reading scores, percentage decrease in disciplinary action, percentage increase of survey, happiness, percentage decrease, surveyed anxiety.

Kayce Strader: 30:21

Like, whatever it is that you're trying to change, we need to articulate that, and we need to measure it. And so when I am drawing a logic model for an organization, I draw out all these boxes, and I make a really, really thick black line between outputs and outcomes. Because I want them to see we're making we're talking about a totally different conversation on the other side of this line. Because when we're in outputs, we can measure what happened later. We don't have to think about it.

Kayce Strader: 30:52

We're just going through the motions. We're just putting in our inputs again and again and again because it's the right thing to do. We're doing our activities because they work, we think. There's so many assumptions until we get to that big black line. Right?

Kayce Strader: 31:06

And when we cross over that line, now we are exposing ourselves to the idea that our assumptions may or may not have worked, and now we're gonna find out. And the way that we're gonna do that is we're going to plan ahead of the change and how we're going to measure it. Outputs can always be measured retroactively without prior planning. Outcomes, we're always gonna have to have a baseline. So we have to really think about it.

Kayce Strader: 31:35

And we have to think about the kind of change that we wanna see, and then how do we capture enough information to know whether or not we move the needle. Right? Because the stewardship conversation you were talking about, that that's fascinating. Right? Like, what if we could?

Kayce Strader: 31:50

Because we're not just gonna work less, we're gonna help more boys. Right? That that represents real people. More people we can help. If it's not 700 hours a boy, but it's 350 hours a boy, we're talking double the boys.

Kayce Strader: 32:08

But before we just cut a boy's hours in half, we're gonna make sure that he is gonna get to the same level of impact, and we're gonna measure the kind of change that we wanna see. And our outcomes are gonna be directly related to our impact statement. Right? They are going to have a strong connection because if we accomplish those outcomes, if we see those percentage changes in positive and negative directions as we need them to be, Will they equal a boy who can go to that secondary level of education? Will they equal a boy who really cares about his faith and his family and his community?

Kayce Strader: 32:49

So those are the kind of outcomes that we need to be measuring.

Zach Garza: 32:52

That's awesome, Casey. So how how do we capture this data?

Kayce Strader: 33:00

So there it depends on the metric that you're looking at. But I think you can measure anything. I think you can measure just about anything. Some of them will be those hard data points, right, like reading scores. But you're gonna need to know what they were reading at before you start it Because we're not just gonna take reading scores at the end, we're gonna take them at the beginning, and we're gonna see if this curriculum was the right one.

Kayce Strader: 33:25

Right? So, for our, 1 on 1 mentoring relationship, though, some of that is more subjective. Right? How does this boy feel about the Bible? How does this boy feel about being a dad?

Kayce Strader: 33:42

Like, what are the things that are connected to our impact statement that we want this boy to change in? How do we want him to grow? And then once we define those, we start asking him at the beginning. And so we create things like entrance surveys. Right?

Kayce Strader: 34:02

So we're getting a baseline of where he comes in at, and this takes this takes a lot of extra work. Right? Especially on the front end, if it's not something, that comes really natural in your organization. If if your organization has always relied on outputs, then this switch to outcomes, it seems like double or triple work. Ultimately, though, like I said, it it takes time to learn how to use the tool.

Kayce Strader: 34:29

But then once you do, you can do your work incredibly faster, more effective, better. You're really going to increase how you're able to, connect with donors, how you're able to fundraise. Because there's a massive difference in saying, we talked to this boy for 20 hours last year and saying this boy's self worth increased by 80%. This boy's anxiety plummeted. He was anxious 90% of the time.

Kayce Strader: 35:03

Now he feels, steady, stable, and secure, almost a 100% of it. Well, whatever it is. Like, whatever the needle is that we're trying to move, we're able to to tell our donors that we know we are affecting change in the areas that they care about.

Zach Garza: 35:20

Right. So some of our intermediate outcomes were 88% of our kids feel supported by their mentors. Okay? That is a qualitative piece of data. Right?

Zach Garza: 35:34

Yeah. So qualitative is what they say. Quantitative is, like, that is in the numbers. Right? Mhmm.

Zach Garza: 35:43

Yeah. It's great.

Kayce Strader: 35:43

Well, and qualitative is gonna be, it's just gonna be more subjective. Right? And we will need to ask them at the beginning, and we'll need to ask them ongoing. Right? We're gonna need to ask them at different points in the year.

Kayce Strader: 35:59

We We need to ask them at the end of the year.

Zach Garza: 36:01

Yeah. So I whenever I found out that 88% of our kids feel supported by their mentors and 75% of our kids have heard about a relationship with, Jesus Christ out of the mouths of their mentors. Remember I found out that 58% of our kids feel comfortable asking their mentor, questions about faith and life, and 78% of our kids said that they would turn to their mentor in time of need. That set me on fire.

Kayce Strader: 36:33

Yeah. That's huge.

Zach Garza: 36:34

And I went from being like, yeah. Let's I guess, we'll do these surveys next week or next month to now. I mean, surveys are some of the most important things we do. And if you're a nonprofit and you are not doing surveys when a kid enters into your program and every 6 months or so, then I would encourage you guys to do so because it is so helpful. It's so encouraging.

Zach Garza: 37:02

And let's say it goes down. Well, then that shows you where you guys have to focus on. And we did a survey at the beginning of every school year. We did a survey at Christmas break. We did a survey at the end of school, and, I think the end of summer.

Zach Garza: 37:25

And so those are the 4 that we did. And some of our outcomes, I mean, 100% of kids learned how to explain the gospel. 80% of our kids received a 80 or above in language arts during the entire school year. 46% of kids improved in how to read. 1 100 percent of our kids learned 10 new, 10 new verses, which was awesome.

Zach Garza: 38:04

So Yeah. So very helpful. So out outputs is what happened. Most of that time, it's the hours or the number of dot dot dot. Yep.

Zach Garza: 38:16

Outcomes is what good did it do? What is the What changed? What changed? That's great.

Kayce Strader: 38:21

Change. What changed? And it's almost always gonna start with percentage change of. Percentage increase of positive thing you wanna see, percentage decrease of negative thing you want to stop.

Zach Garza: 38:32

Yeah.

Kayce Strader: 38:32

And I'll tell you a story that happened. This was another admissions agency, and I went and, I will always remember I was sitting in the middle of this very large board table in a boardroom, and I was texting my husband under the table. And I was texting him saying, pray for me. I think I'm gonna have to give them their money back. Because there was this, like, there was a lot of resistance.

Kayce Strader: 39:02

Right? Like, I'm trying to teach them this. I know it can help them, but there's this, like, unspoken resistance in the room. Some of it's spoken, actually. And it was like, well, like, we're we're just doing God's work.

Kayce Strader: 39:17

Right? Like, we don't need to try to put all these metrics on what God is doing. So I was trying to, like, explain to them some of the biblical principles even behind some of this, like, planning and using strategy and things like this. But then this lady down at the end of the table who hadn't spoken the entire time raised her hand, and she said, can I say something? And I said, of course.

Kayce Strader: 39:47

I mean, I'm texting my husband and I'm giving them their money back. She can say whatever she wants. And she said, what if we don't wanna know? And I said, what? And she said, what if we don't wanna know?

Kayce Strader: 40:04

What if we've been doing it this way all this time, and it doesn't really work? And what if we don't want to know? And it was just silence. And they 1 by 1 had to decide, do I wanna know? Do I wanna give my life to an organization that's not doing any good, that's not changing anything?

Kayce Strader: 40:29

Do I wanna know? And that is really the big question behind outcomes. Right? Because sometimes we're actually more comfortable with the idea of outputs. What what is just happening?

Kayce Strader: 40:41

Like, can we just make a lot of motion? Can we just have a lot of activity? Can we just do a lot of things that that seem like they should make sense to do? And people give us money because they just assume that we know what we're doing Or do we wanna know that it really works? Right?

Kayce Strader: 40:59

And there's risk in that. And that's hard for organizations. That's hard for board members if they've been doing something a given way for a long time. There's risk in it. Because what it may show is that what you're doing isn't working as well as it could be.

Kayce Strader: 41:18

And that takes some humility. Right? That's some risk, and it takes some humility, but it is important because I think deep down, given the choice, everybody wants to be working for a nonprofit that works. Like, that's doing what they really say they want to accomplish. And this is the way to know for sure.

Zach Garza: 41:41

Man, that's such a great story. And I know for me, I am not about to give my life to something that I don't 100% know is working. And I think going through this process, humility. And it also says to everyone involved, your staff, your donors, your board, I am willing to do whatever it takes, even say what I'm what I've been doing is wrong to help this kid. Yeah.

Zach Garza: 42:17

I, episode 54, is a guy, his name is Eddie Hallock from the Stoler Foundation. And the Stoler Foundation, you know, they had been supporting us for years. And he asked me this question. He said, Zach, are your boys' lives are boys giving their lives to Jesus Christ at your program? And I didn't know.

Zach Garza: 42:47

And so I said, well, yeah. Sure. They are. I mean, yeah. There's some life change.

Zach Garza: 42:51

And he's like, how many kids have been baptized? And I just said, well, I don't know. And he goes, well, have you ever asked them? And I said to myself, no. I haven't ever asked.

Zach Garza: 43:05

And he said, Zach, I am not going to support you until you ask. And I kinda pushed back. I was like, look, man. I don't do that. That's too much.

Zach Garza: 43:15

I don't feel, you know, I I I don't feel comfortable with, you know, trying to ask these kids if they want to be baptized. And he just encouraged me and he encouraged me and he encouraged me. So finally, one day, I did. And guess what? We had 7 kids say yes.

Zach Garza: 43:34

The next week, we had 10 kids say yes. Then the next week, we had 15 kids say yes. In the next 2 years, we baptized 84 kids. And it's all because he pushed me and said, Zach, you say that you're making life change, but you don't really know because you don't have the courage to ask the kids the hard kinds of questions to find out. Yeah.

Zach Garza: 43:58

And to this day, I mean, I am so thankful that he said that to me because now I know. Like Yeah. There is change in these kids' lives because because of him. So

Kayce Strader: 44:15

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, those those boys went from not being baptized to being baptized.

Zach Garza: 44:23

Right.

Kayce Strader: 44:23

Like, the change that's a huge change.

Zach Garza: 44:25

Massive.

Kayce Strader: 44:26

That that's a a huge change in any believer's life. For that missions agency that talked about flying all those miles, I would have much rather known how many people got baptized.

Zach Garza: 44:37

Yeah. Right.

Kayce Strader: 44:37

I'd much rather known that. Much rather known about, professions for Christ, like saved marriages. Like, I would much rather know those things. And like you said, like, the things that kind of that set you on fire, like, the things that that are the stories that you go talk about, they're always outcomes. We never have stories from outputs.

Kayce Strader: 44:59

Right? Like, there there's numbers. And they they are important to a degree. We can measure them, but they're just gonna happen anyway.

Zach Garza: 45:08

Yeah.

Kayce Strader: 45:09

Whether we are calling it in or giving it our all, they're just gonna happen. The change, that's the stories. That's that's what we tell people. That's what makes us excited. That's what that's what changes us.

Zach Garza: 45:22

Yeah. A 100%. Okay. So we talked about the inputs, activity, outputs, outcomes, and then the impact. And that right there is a logic model.

Kayce Strader: 45:33

That's a logic model. It seems really simple until you get everybody in the room, and everybody has different ideas about what those things are. Right? The input, pretty simple. There's not a lot of arguing about the input.

Kayce Strader: 45:48

It's just what you're putting in. Activities is pretty straightforward too. What do we do? And that will take a little bit of figuring to make sure that nothing's falling through the cracks. Like, you are gonna have to to really think through, like, what belongs here, or what percentage of a given function belongs here if you've got multiple groups.

Kayce Strader: 46:11

And then your outputs, that may that may lead to some discussion. Like, what are you gonna measure in terms of what happened? But the real discussion happens in that outcomes category. What are we going to measure, and and can we make those logical assumptions that it's going to connect to impact? And this is where kind of a a next step or a next level, especially if you're going after bigger funders, could be, including research.

Kayce Strader: 46:46

So if you decide that one of your outcomes is improvement in reading scores, maybe include the research that shows that reading scores are directly correlated with entrance to secondary education. Right? Well, now that's powerful. Because you've got outside independent objective research that proves that the needle you're pulling over pulls over bigger needles. And, and so that's going to be a big discussion point.

Kayce Strader: 47:17

In terms of your outcomes, you can't have 500. What are the 3 or 4 or 5 most important ones going to be? And then how do you make sure that moving those moves the impact?

Zach Garza: 47:31

Yeah. That's great, Casey. Anything else?

Kayce Strader: 47:41

You know, I think that the last thing is a point that you've already touched on a little bit. Is that it's not just a tool for raising money. This is a tool for celebration. Like, this tool keeps your staff going. Like, this is the these outcomes that you pick, that you measure, these are the things that you pull out, to go crazy over.

Kayce Strader: 48:06

And so this is a tool not just for outside your organization, but just as much for inside of your organization. So it's for everybody. This is something that it that I don't think people should view it as a hoop that they have to jump through to get a grant. This is something that can really change how everybody connects to the mission. And I think that, if you view it as something like that, then it's work you can do joyfully, even if it's work that you haven't had to do before.

Zach Garza: 48:35

I know, for me, some of my favorite days was whenever I would get that stack of surveys. Mhmm. And say, oh my gosh. Check out Tommy. Like, Tommy every day says, man, I don't like this place.

Zach Garza: 48:47

But then on a survey he says that he went, you know, he the very first day was at a 4 in this area and now he's in 8. And I was just like, thank you, Jesus. Like, man, that is something that I can, you know, that gives me what I need to to keep on serving. So Yeah. Okay, Casey.

Zach Garza: 49:09

Well, if people, would, people would, care to get to know you a tad bit more, tell me how, people can find you.

Kayce Strader: 49:19

Sure. So my website is save9 consulting, s a v e n I n e. So they can find me there. And, more information about logic models, I think I sent over to you so they, can access that. It's not a difficult tool, but sometimes the questions are hard.

Kayce Strader: 49:37

And so I love to help groups walk through those in group settings as a facilitator, to help really in a in a timely and more fun fashion narrow down how this should work.

Zach Garza: 49:49

That's awesome, Casey. Thank you so much. You guys feel, feel free to reach out to Casey for some support and for some help. And we're thankful for you guys who tuned in. And remember, you can mentor.

Zach Garza: 50:03

Thanks for tuning in to the You Can Mentor podcast. Please share this with other mentors and download our free resources on our website. You can also order Zach's book, You Can Mentor or John's book, Mephipseth on Amazon. Lastly, we'd really appreciate it if you gave us a 5 star rating on whatever listening platform you are tuning in on. If you'd like to connect with us further, please contact us through our website because we're always looking for new guests or connections.

Zach Garza: 50:30

Thank you. And remember, you can mentor.