Building a Director-Led Accounting Firm

Marcus and Rachel break down how Dillon Business Advisors moved from an owner-led firm to a director-led one, walking through the seven components they use to define every director role, from ownership and KPIs to the weekly question that keeps people accountable. They also share how scorecards and monthly reviews keep decisions from flowing back up to the owners. It's a practical framework for firms that have outgrown a single person holding everything together.

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• (00:00) - Welcome and Catch Up
• (01:36) - Custom Closet Sticker Shock
• (05:41) - Sales Value and Vacations
• (07:23) - Why Go Director Led
• (16:12) - Improvement Season Explained
• (18:37) - Seven Parts of Director Roles
• (23:55) - Not Responsible For Clarity
• (33:09) - Director Roles at DBA
• (43:31) - Scorecards and Accountability
• (51:45) - Resources and Wrap Up

Creators and Guests

Host

Marcus Dillon, CPA

Host

Rachel Dillon

What is Who's Really the BOSS??

"Who's Really the BOSS?" highlights the joys and challenges of running a CPA firm with your spouse or family. From hiring and terminating to improving capacity, cash flow, and culture, our conversations cover leadership, operations, and current accounting industry challenges. Our mission is to strengthen families and accounting firms by helping listeners avoid the mistakes we have made, so they can lead and live happily ever after.

Attention: This is a machine-generated transcript. As such, there may be spelling, grammar, and accuracy errors throughout. Thank you for your understanding!

Rachel Dillon: This is Who's really the boss. A podcast for accounting firm leaders who want to grow with intention and lead with purpose. I'm Rachel Dolan, and along with my husband, Marcus Dillon, we share real stories from our accounting firm, Practical Firm growth strategies, and the tools you need to lead your clients, your team, and your life well. Welcome back to another [00:00:30] episode of Who's Really the Boss podcast.

Marcus Dillon: Hey, thanks for having me back.

Rachel Dillon: You are all outfitted with a new chair in your office as of only yesterday, I believe. So I think you're all the way put together in your home office now.

Marcus Dillon: I think so. Um, need to fill in my bookshelves a little bit more and get rid of some of the, the old office chair that's in here, unless you're planning to come in here and like, we can co-work. Uh, that's always an option, but I've got some extra pieces of furniture. It seems [00:01:00] like that are stacking up.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. That's awesome. Well, we are settled in, uh, in Fort Worth in our house. I think we have only a couple more things happening to this house that, uh, we purchased last fall in the fall of 2025. Did a little bit of updating and, um, cosmetic things to the house. And then we moved in in March of, or April of 2026. And so, um, here we are in the summer [00:01:30] of 2026 and almost complete with putting things together.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Uh, just a few additional, like, I guess moving pieces or, uh, discretionary pieces, right? Like the, the closet, uh, organization thing. And, uh, I think we were not on the same page as how much we wanted to spend on that. Um, but you know, if the whole.

Rachel Dillon: We're, listen, we're all friends here, so let's talk through this. We talked about getting [00:02:00] a. Custom remodel. Yeah. Remodeling the closet with a local custom closet company. They came out in my mind, I was with. It's funny that I say it because I'm like, that's not realistic. Um, in my mind, I was willing to spend up to $5,000 and still felt like that was a lot to spend because there actually is a nice closet with some organization. Um, yeah. And you had [00:02:30] a different thought that you would spend up to ten.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, I said ten. You know, just to make life easier. And um, that's what their website said. Like there was really good options, uh, for 10,000. And then, you know, she showed, came in, measured, showed the layout. It was really basic. Think Ikea basic, right. Um, you know, doing some drawers, which we don't have many in that closet and doing better hanging and all the fun stuff, but a small space. [00:03:00] What do you think? Like ten by 20? Is that master closet? Sure. If that yeah.

Rachel Dillon: That feels big. That feels big.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Well, apparently she was like, you know, I think right now she showed it before you left the meeting. It was around 15. But you know, she's like, I could do this. I can do that. You know, it's going to push you closer to 30,000. I'm like $30,000. Um, wow.

Rachel Dillon: So so yeah, I left that meeting. I had to leave to another [00:03:30] appointment. And as I was thinking about it, I just thought, you know, I, you know, probably for like $100, I can get like really good organization for the few things that don't have a place yet. Um, so no need to go 300 $0 in on a closet transformation. Um, yeah. So.

Marcus Dillon: So if, if the accounting world really does get taken over by AI and all the agents that are coming. Custom closets [00:04:00] worked for Jay Pritchett. Uh, you know, on Modern Family, he built a very good life for his his family, the peers. Um, so I'm guessing that custom closets, whatever market you're in, uh, could be a very real thing. You just got to find your ideal customer. Just like with anything in life, uh, someone that's willing to spend that type of money. So.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, well, our conversation today is going to center around removing ourselves or firing ourselves. Um, and [00:04:30] moving from a owner led firm to a director led firm. And maybe we, maybe we shouldn't be having this conversation if we're thinking about spending that many thousands of dollars on a closet update.

Marcus Dillon: So yeah, I don't think, I don't think we're spending that many thousands of dollars, uh, for Ikea parts.

Rachel Dillon: I'll let you let her down gently. It will not be me letting her down gently so you.

Marcus Dillon: Can be in charge of that. We talked about this after [00:05:00] she was here, and then she started sharing like the the budget. It's like, do you stop them mid-process or do you let them do their whole thing and kind of show you what it will cost? I was the one that I was like, hey, let let her finish her process, deliver the price. We'll let her down after we realize it's 30 grand and you're like, no, you need to stop her now. Like, tell her not to.

Rachel Dillon: I didn't even want her to measure or start building out the floor plan. Yeah. Because I knew that that price was [00:05:30] not going to be anywhere near what I was willing to pay, which the amount I was willing still felt like, wow, that feels like a waste. Like, why are we doing this? So anyway.

Marcus Dillon: Okay, so she also, she also equated it to like, well, um, which feel free anybody to use this in sales? She said, well, you know, like a trip to Europe may cost 20 to $30,000. And that's just one trip. Like your closet is what you use on a daily basis. And so I can think that this is a really [00:06:00] good use of the money because you use it daily versus like a European trip is only. And I'm like, lady, I'm not spending 30 grand to go to Europe either. Um, so, uh, we're just maybe too disconnected on this conversation.

Rachel Dillon: I actually told the person at my appointment after that I could do, we could do like 2 to 3 very nice vacations for that amount of money. Yeah. So funny that she and I were using the same analogies, uh, for that spend.

Marcus Dillon: So [00:06:30] there.

Rachel Dillon: You go. There's the sales world.

Marcus Dillon: So, uh, let's equate that to accounting. Like you could spend $30,000 a year on a closet. Why don't you spend $30,000 a year on a really good accountant and like, know where your business is at any given time. Know you're where your tax liabilities lie, you know, and just stay up to date and run a better business and not and not have the closet.

Rachel Dillon: I think our prospects, whenever they're talking to me and getting the pricing for those accounting services, are thinking [00:07:00] about those vacations going away because they're paying for accounting services. So now maybe I'm just in a better position to help them understand the value of what they're getting, and that will help them, will help them find the budget for the vacation as well.

Marcus Dillon: Correct. Hopefully the accounting can turn into more vacations for those owners. And the closet, not so much. Um, so yeah, it's, it's a good conversation. And yeah, part part of today is speaking into, you know, as owners, what it looks like to run [00:07:30] a business. And as, as we've grown, uh, obviously, you know, the people you do life with in the business mean a lot. People come and go, people want opportunities. Um, some people, you know, they, they just don't see the opportunity within the existing business. So they go out and create their own opportunity, which is great. That was part of my story, part of DBA story. Um, but that's not always the story for everybody. So, um, as we've grown, we knew we needed to move beyond a owner led [00:08:00] or partner led organization to a director led organization. And so that comes with a lot of the right people. It also comes with, maybe we don't have those right people today, but we need to create the role that we need to go look for and dream about and have in place before we stick somebody in a role with no, uh, no scorecard, no direction. And we've been there before. Uh, some of some of our listeners [00:08:30] may remember on our director of business development that didn't work out the best way we thought it was going to. And part of that was just lack of preparation. So here, uh, with the different director level roles that DBA has, um, that, that process was on our roadmap for improvement season of 2026, and part of it is also removing myself as the owner from a lot of the production work and kind of getting things done through [00:09:00] others, which may sound good or bad, however you think about it, but it's ultimately delegate and elevating to other people. So I'm excited about this conversation just to kind of, uh, you know, show what we've been working on at DBA as far as putting the right people in the right spots and then elevating them to go do great work with great team members.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. So, um, if we think back to the beginning days of Dillon Business Advisors wasn't even [00:09:30] that name, um, with fewer team members, uh, fewer clients, you were definitely the center of everything that happened in the business. You were, um, actually, you were like the beginning, the middle and the end. And then there was help in between those things, right? Like you were business development. Maybe had some preparation on some things, maybe did some preparation on your own, and then definitely reviewed every single thing before it went out the door. And so once we started growing, that [00:10:00] became harder. But you still stayed as kind of the center where everyone in the whole organization answered to you. We did develop the team of three and the organizational chart that goes with the team of three, and that started to allow us capacity and good service delivery, um, a good client experience. And we started to scale so we could scale [00:10:30] that structure and we could scale, we continue to bring on new clients. And so that really is what helped kind of lead us to a place where we, you could no longer be everything. And even with my help, you still could no longer be everything to everybody, team and clients. And so started that. We needed to start looking at other people, other leaders who could be the final say [00:11:00] at the end of the day for different responsibilities and areas of the business. And so that is kind of a very, very quick run through of where we started to what we're going to talk about today. So when the doors opened, obviously all of these positions weren't out there and there wasn't necessarily a need on day one to have all of these defined. But as we've continued to grow and scale, we found that having our org chart as it [00:11:30] stands today and then immediately beginning to look ahead to what do future roles need to be if we continue to scale to another team of three and another team of three and another team of three within the um, within Dylan business advisors.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. It all goes back to like conversations that, you know, we've already led and a lot of firms, you know, are a part of with, uh, the bottleneck and making sure that, you know, as, as you grow. And just for context, [00:12:00] DBA, the CPA firm is a $5 million plus business. It's got, uh, I would say on the CPA firm side, 24, uh, team members, probably 20 FTEs. Um, just because there's some flex and part time in there. Um, but yeah, like with a $5 million organization, your org chart and your responsibilities have to look a lot different than you were at one, two, $3 million. And, um, what I think as well is with [00:12:30] the director levels plus new technology is we'll be able to grow and, um, you know, scale a little bit more without adding the same number of team members, um, at that ratio, if you will. And part of this is, as we mapped out. Amy McCarty is leading a lot of this, and she's our director of ops and people at DBA. She's the director of advisory at collective. So she wears a few different hats. But, um, Amy's really [00:13:00] leading some of this and helping us put together what this looks like with scorecards and job. Job responsibilities and defined roles. And, uh, what would this look like if we were to double? Um, what would it look like to be a $10 million organization with, let's say, 40 team members? Um, and what would the directors look like? Um, so where we started is not where we are today. Where, uh, where we want to go. And I think as, as you, as, as [00:13:30] we thought about it as maybe a listener thinks about it.

Marcus Dillon: Um, we had to ask ourselves, you know, what in the firm does everything still wait on you and you being me, right, as an owner. But that could also be in your role. So if there's something that is completely owned by one individual, we wanted to go solve for that. And we tried to prioritize where our biggest risk was. Um, as far as if it was technical capabilities, if [00:14:00] it was sales, marketing, all that fun stuff. Um, just to solve for it. And then once we solve for that, then we can go create the roles, create the job descriptions, create the scorecard based on those job descriptions and the KPIs that we want to see. And then, um, you know, whether that person is on the team today that fits that role, or if we need to go find that person, that was kind of that last step, right? Um, and so it's been a fun exercise for sure. Uh, trying to unpack that a little bit. Uh, that was [00:14:30] the reason why we did it because we knew that as we grew, um, you and I and other, you know, team members didn't necessarily want to step back into certain roles we wanted to give opportunity to others that were already on the team, or going to be part of the team in the future to do a great job. So that's kind of laying the groundwork of why we thought this was important. Um, and part of our evolution as well, like we've had a leadership and leadership team in place [00:15:00] for, what would you say like 4 or 5 years at this point?

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. Since, since 2020.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And even the evolution of that leadership team, uh, when that leadership team first started out, it was, you know, mostly my voice in those meetings and whatever I said carried the most weight. Um, so I had to be very careful on when I spoke and everything. Um, but some of the feedback from people that were on the [00:15:30] team at various points was, uh, that, that leadership team was just really a sounding board for either Marcus or Marcus and Rachel. And that ultimately the decision lie with them as the owners. And so that's something that we had to solve for, to kind of release a little bit of the control of certain areas of DBA so that we could really empower, uh, really good people at the director level to go do really amazing things. So, um, we haven't always been perfect. We still aren't perfect [00:16:00] today. Um, but I would just say like, it is an evolution of where we started and identifying some of those bottlenecks, some of those pain points, um, along the way.

Rachel Dillon: All right. So I think this is a perfect conversation. We are in improvement season. We at collective define that as the timing after April 15th, up until about August 15th, just when we start getting back into now extension tax season deadline. So a lot of firms, [00:16:30] um, that we run with a lot of firms that are members and collective also have a tax component along with their CAS component. And so we do feel like there is a little bit less time during tax season and extension tax season just in the firm. And so we like to do our refinements and our improvements. And sometimes we call them experiments. We like to do those during the times that we are not on a deadline crunch. [00:17:00] And so the summer is typically that time we call improvement season when we do big changes or big implementations, and then we get to practice with whatever we've refined or changed during that extension tax season. And then we can refine again right before the year ends. That way, we're not making brand new implementations or initiatives in the middle of January through April. [00:17:30] And that's really a gift to our team to not, you know, pull a software and change it or completely rework a whole process in the middle of tax season. Typically, we would want to do that, roll it out, have plenty of time for people to feel comfortable with that, and then get to practice it a bit in September and October, and then we can rediscuss it before the year ends. That way it's pretty nailed down by the time we get to all of the [00:18:00] volume that comes with the beginning of the year.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And, um, I think the, the great thing that comes out of improvement season or the guides or the templates, the SOPs that we then share with collective firms. Um, not, not saying that we got it right, but hey, use this for your own, you know, your own use and kind of make it your own or modify it, combine them together. So excited for these director roles to, to release to the collective firms as well, just so that they have a template. If they [00:18:30] are looking to bring in a director of tax, what is a scorecard look like for that? And, you know, how do you hold people accountable? All that fun stuff. So but what I would like to start with first is just what is the director role really look like? And before we get into like the specific roles that we have, we've identified for DBA, um, there's seven things that we think about on needing definition within the director role. So we'll just walk through each component of that role and maybe explain [00:19:00] why it's important in the first place. So, um, I can start and then feel free to kind of weigh in. But yeah, um, once we identified, you know, that, that question that we had already asked, like, what's one thing that still relies on you or somebody waiting on for you to do? Um, the primary focus is the first step.

Marcus Dillon: So that's number one, primary focus. Uh, and you should identify one sentence that captures the point of that role. And if you can't say it in a sentence, then the role isn't clear. [00:19:30] And so when you think about, um, and when you see the visual, it'll make sense that we've created. But the primary focus just nails it, right? And it's like this person is responsible for X, Y, and z. And so that is how you lead. And that way it's beyond the title. The title tells you a lot, but even in different firms, the director of tax could mean a lot of different things. For a firm that does 2 million, 5 million, $50 million a year. Um, and [00:20:00] so those are just the things to keep in mind. The second is, um, what, what that person owns. And that's specific, you know, what are they accountable for? And that is not aspirational, but it is concrete. And so it's what are you going to hold someone responsible for? What are they going to report back as being their primary objective? And then the third one before I let you. Oh, you want to.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. Before I jump in um, on that owns that's a specific word. Um, and [00:20:30] I was listening to a podcast, The Double Win podcast with Michael Hyatt and Megan Hyatt Miller. And actually, this specific episode was Megan and her husband, Joel, and they were talking to, and I believe she's an attorney, um, but has come up with sort of marriage counseling because it relates to organizational structure and what ownership means. And so, um, I believe her name is Eve. I might be wrong. [00:21:00] Um, but the double win podcast and I think it's called, uh, play fair is the name of the title. And, uh, that is the name of Eve's product that she sells and her teaching that she sells. But what she was saying is ownership really means that person goes from conception, like having the idea to all of the parts of planning to execution with an agreed upon, [00:21:30] uh, like minimum standard of quality for that area. So in that podcast, she was talking about splitting the, uh, let's say, unpaid home responsibilities that a family has. And she was saying like, it's fine for one of the, uh, like a spouse to say, can I go to the store for you? But it's another thing for that spouse to know.

Rachel Dillon: We need, you know, it's coming up [00:22:00] before the weekend and for the weekend. We need this whole list of things, um, to make that list, to go to the store to unload those things, like to own the whole process and not just own the task of actually like going in the store and paying for the items, um, because of the mental load that comes with that. I think that's another thing on the owners and partners of, if you haven't given up complete ownership of that thing, you're still weighed [00:22:30] down, thinking about it and wondering, do they know that they're supposed to do this? Is it going to get to me? Is it going to be done at that minimum standard expectation that I would do it at? So it's all of those things of it's not just to delegate a piece of the task, but to give ownership of the whole responsibility to this director level position.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Which which can be scary because that means they may fail [00:23:00] in that. Right. And how much of a safety net are you there for? If you're if you're a safety net that's way too close, then you're always going to be the person picking up the pieces and quote unquote, rescuing that person. And they never fully own anything. So and speaking from experience on that, right. Um, so that owns is pretty, uh, it's pretty important, no doubt. Um, I think the third one is also just as important. It's measured by. So we've already talked about primary [00:23:30] focus and then measured by. And that's what you know, the outcomes that tell you it's working or it's not working. Um, and that's where ownership gets teeth because within that, you know, if you aren't measuring that person or that role, um, you have no idea if they're really owning that and successful in it. So yeah, so those are the three core ones. Um, the next one's pretty important as well. Um, and I feel like this [00:24:00] one gave people a lot of, uh, a lot of clarity on, okay, like it's starting to make sense. And what it is, is the fourth section is not responsible for. So this is what I thought was the most underrated section, um, in the whole document, you know, as we're putting these role definitions together because there's so much overlap in most businesses, most small firms, um, to really call out what somebody is not responsible [00:24:30] for, um, gives, gives that person pause, freedom, you know, a breath of fresh air. Um, because more than likely that's on somebody else's job description responsibility. And so we just don't want overlap there. Um, to the point where it causes confusion or misalignment in the team. So, um, describing the role explicitly and, you know, it's just one of those where trying not to create silos either, uh, because that doesn't [00:25:00] create great service, but it's really, it's really important for us to have that not responsible for a column.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. That is actually a teaching strategy. When I was teaching elementary school, um, when we were learning new ideas or new concepts or even just new definitions of having, uh, the students to kind of fold their paper or make a chart of a sort and what it is and what it is not. And so, and then kind of like what it's like something that it's similar to [00:25:30] because our brain is forming pathways, right? And trying to connect to something that we already know. And so if it's making these associations, you, you help your brain out by saying it is not this. And so then it can kind of like start moving that down a narrower track of what it actually is when it knows what it's not. Also reminds me of our optimist pessimist strategy that we use with the team and retreats. Um, where they have to share like a positive thing about something [00:26:00] new that we're doing and also a negative thing about that new, just so we can evaluate like, where are, you know, possible challenges going to arise and solve for those. Um, this, this is the same thing when we say what it's not, then we avoid two people thinking the other person's going to do it or that's the other person's job. I'll let them handle it and then know what ends up handling it.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, yeah. Really, really clear part [00:26:30] of it. And, um, I love, you know, the way that this document shaped up for each, each of the directors. So the fifth one is kind of a cool, um, a cool one, right? It's the one liner. So it's, uh, the soul of that individual role. And, uh, you know, just thinking about the different ones that we have on our side. Director of technology and AI. Um, so they build the machine, they don't run it right? Because Angel, you know, his expertise is not doing [00:27:00] accounting tax advisory on a daily basis. His, his is actually building the machine and making sure that that's running smooth. Right? So, uh, sales and marketing, the role that you're currently in, uh, they bring in the right work, they don't execute it. And so very similar there, right? Like if you had to do accounting, tax and advisory, um, it would be a different story. Uh, you've, you've had your hand in multiple of those roles over the years, but not [00:27:30] currently. And that's where for a director of sales and marketing to be successful, um, in a $5 million and a $10 million firm, we can't rely on that role to also execute the work that they're bringing in, which is also part of the reason why maybe partners aren't great at sales and marketing.

Marcus Dillon: Um, so, and then the third one we'll just throw out is operations and people. That's the one that Amy sits in today at DBA and they run the machine, right? So they run the machine and the people [00:28:00] inside it. So if you notice like every one of those three roles we've already thrown out, there's two areas that each person has. So like technology and AI. Uh, you have sales and marketing. And that's intentional because we wanted two areas that identify, hey, these two work together right now at the rate we're at, but where we're going, maybe one of those rolls comes off one day to either another director level person, or maybe there's some type of back office service that [00:28:30] we no longer have to maintain this either people layer or technology layer, if we're outsourcing that to a certain degree. So all of that to say like there was, it was pretty intentional about some of this, but I think the tagline, uh, really helps give people that one liner about, hey, what do you do here? Um, director of sales and marketing. That's great. That looks like a gazillion different things to a gazillion different people. So tagline is something that I thought was pretty cool.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, absolutely. And just helps [00:29:00] give clarity as well. Uh, and knowing that at a certain size. So at a $5 million company, the, the directors can handle those two areas, let's say at a 10 or 15 or $20 million, you probably are going to have separate people because those areas become, uh, more involved and capacity just starts to decline to be able to do a really good job over that. Uh, and so yes, [00:29:30] I thought that was really good.

Marcus Dillon: And I think it also helps, um, like we're accountants, right? And so you should be able to budget even though I'm the worst, uh, at that, it, it helps to think through as you grow, uh, so you grow from 5 million to 10 million. And these are very real conversations that we're having. Uh, like, what does it look like to give Rachel some additional support on the marketing side? Do we bring this person in? Oh, crap, that person's a $200,000 a year person and they only do marketing. They do not do sales. And [00:30:00] so like, those are some of the very real things. And it's like, hey, we're not ready for that person right now or that role of just truly director of marketing, which is worth $200,000 in a $10 million firm all day long. But it's just one of those where as you grow, you have to start making decisions like that. And so they're just it helps frame some different conversations that are happening even within DBA. And so, um, but yeah, like, you know, you're worth every bit of that $200,000 as director of sales and marketing. [00:30:30] Um, so I think that's just the other, the other part of the story too.

Marcus Dillon: All right. Well, um, the last two aren't surprising. Uh, the, the sixth component of this is KPIs. So what are the numbers? Uh, we live and die by the numbers, right? And hopefully the data is good. What are the numbers that prove the outcome? Uh, for this role? And then number seven is the weekly question that that director must answer. So it's a single recurring [00:31:00] question that keeps the role honest. Um, and this is where all six of the previous parts of that director role can be concise and talked about on a weekly basis. Um, and so when we think about those different questions that could come up. It's on our operation side. Where are we overloaded or at risk of missing a deadline like that could be an example. When their technology what are we still doing manual [00:31:30] that we could do in other ways. What other options exist. And then from a sales do we have enough right fit opportunities coming in. So all of those are the seven components. Primary focus. Owens measured by not responsible for the one liner KPIs. And then that weekly question.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. And I think that, um, a good exercise for probably most people listening is to go through and list what are your key leaders [00:32:00] or your director level roles? What are they not responsible for? And see if there is any overlap or discussion. There was some for us when we were putting not responsible for um, on certain roles of, well, does this really belong belonged to a director of tax or a director of accounting and advisory, or does it belong to director of operations? Does this belong to director of operations, or does it belong to Director of Technology and AI? And so there were there were [00:32:30] definitely conversations had where, you know, until something until something blows up, you don't really know, um, that it wasn't clear. And so this way when we started listing out not responsible for like, oh, yeah, that wasn't really clear. Both people were trying to, you know, hold that together and we could make that decision as a team and decide who does it best fit under as they're currently structured. And then if these roles were ever to get split [00:33:00] apart or changed up, then we could redefine like, what are they? What do they own and what are they not responsible for?

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Well, and so we'll talk a little bit about as DBA, a CPA firm that does a little bit more than 5 million. What that looks like. And so we'll talk about the five roles that are being refined and created right now. Um, so the first one is tax and financial planning. So that's Aaron. Aaron currently sits in that [00:33:30] role of director of tax and financial planning. Um, kind of how we define that is the technical authority and high value planning. We currently today do not do any assets under management, financial planning in that sense. But if you think about where our business could go, if, if we were to double and that was to be something we wanted to pursue, you could see really easy. We could have a director of tax, we could have director of financial planning. But essentially our goal there is to ensure what we deliver is technically [00:34:00] excellent and that it's correct and that there's not errors, that it is fully sound and that it's within logic and it's within a, um, I would say a risk tolerance that we're comfortable with as a firm and not just any one person. Uh, I have a different risk tolerance than the rest of the team. The collective team has a risk tolerance that is lower than mine, which is great because we don't need everybody with my risk tolerance on the team. So, um, [00:34:30] and the one thing here, uh, a little bit of attention to note is, uh, you know, the director of tax financial planning owns the technical quality, but they do not own the workflow enforcement that's operations and they do not own the sales. That's the director of marketing and sales. So anything else to unpack about that role before we move on to the next?

Rachel Dillon: No. I think we can keep going.

Marcus Dillon: All right. So the second is the director of Accounting advisory. And these are in no order of importance [00:35:00] or anything of that nature. So Director of Accounting Advisory Leslie Reeves sits in that role, uh, which many of you all may have heard Leslie speak at collective events. She's a great leader. Uh, on the DBA side, that is the seat that she sits in. And so what her role is there is client experience and ongoing advisory value. Similar to Aaron. You can have a director of accounting. You could also have a director of advisory one day. Uh, and ultimately with those two combined, what her goal is, is to ensure clients actually feel [00:35:30] the value from those services, right? From the accounting and the advisory. Um, it, it could overlap a little bit, right, with what Aaron's doing on the tax side, but obviously the tax is, is more technical. Uh, we all know that accounting and advisories, uh, a little bit more feel a little more consultive these days. Um, it's still got to be accurate and right and within the bounds of GAAP or some other type of accounting method, you know, your debits have to equal your credits, but still, um, that's what, that's [00:36:00] what her role is. And, um, the field of value where that, where that comes from is it's just not accurate financials, like with all the tools and more tools that are coming out to just make sure the accuracy is there. Um, it's the perceived insight. So it's the conversation that you can't have with the clients. And Leslie does a great job of leading those within her own pod and then elevating, uh, those conversations with other CFOs and controllers to lead conversations with clients.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah.

Marcus Dillon: So [00:36:30] the third is, uh, operations and people, that is Amy. Uh, so execution capacity, accountability. Uh, I joke with Amy like she, she runs the thing, uh, essentially. So, uh, if there's anybody to lock up, it would be the director of ops and people, uh, because it is a people business and it's how they work operations. So, uh, this role actually runs the machine in the people inside of it, right? And machine sounds like a bad word, but it's not in this, in this scenario, we truly are [00:37:00] trying to develop something that is running smoothly and, um, you know, making sure that people felt, uh, valued within that on the internal side.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. I was just going to say as we started, uh, formalizing these director roles and really defining and something that I think, um, just helped remind me that this is so important to be clear here. Uh, my title previously was firm administrator. [00:37:30] It was firm administrator because it encompassed random different things within the business. And there was no one title. Um, other than that, uh, that let people know what I did. And so we went with administrative in the name because it just really meant that I didn't do tax or accounting, like technical accounting work. Um, but when we were going through these director roles, I was still holding some of the people functions. [00:38:00] Amy was starting to take over some of the people functions. You still hold a little piece of people function. And so when we did this, it was really saying, okay, here's a clear, um, divide of Amy's really going to own people. Can I help her? Can you help her? Yes, but she owns it. And she has to say like, can you do this? Or you're, you're in charge of this task, not in charge of the whole [00:38:30] area. Um, that is her role. And so that was something, right? That was really important of getting real clear on what part does she own and what parts do I own? And then also getting clear what is not what is she not responsible for as director of operations and people? Um, that way we make sure nothing gets missed because you certainly don't of all the areas you don't want to mess up or drop the ball on a people [00:39:00] responsibility.

Marcus Dillon: Oh yeah. Yeah for sure. And you know, this becomes even more important because the workflows that will exist where people pay can play a component of that workflow. Technology plays a component of that workflow. So operations that people go hand in hand. Um, so yeah, um, the, the fourth one is director of technology and AI. That's where Angel, uh, brings all of his knowledge to that role. Currently he builds the systems and the automation layer. [00:39:30] So, uh, right now he's building the machine. He doesn't run the machine, he's giving it to the people and putting it in their hands. And I would say that even that overlaps with ops a little bit. So Angel and, and Amy work closely together on a lot of initiatives. And even when we think about like separating out the role of technology and AI, the way that we define technology is it's someone that has built the bubble is maintaining the bubble from a security lens, making sure that people have the best [00:40:00] equipment possible, that we have just all the best connections and And services. And then from his his role, the hat that he wears on the AI side is that automation. It's testing things. It's building things. And what's really cool is during this improvement season, um, you know, Angel who's been on the team for I would, I, what is it like 18 months now? Uh, he's been a part of DBA for longer than that because he was, uh, a client and a friend and, uh, we were clients of his.

Marcus Dillon: So, [00:40:30] um, but I would say that it's cool to see where we're at now during the summer because it's no longer playing with the tools, the AI and automations. It's actually putting those in the hands of the team. So obviously he built all of that and he's now deploying it across DBA. So, um, that's pretty cool. We'll report back how that goes on some of the stuff that's getting, getting introduced there. Um, and finally, last but [00:41:00] not least, the director of sales and marketing, uh, which you currently hold. Um, and that's where it's just demand conversion revenue, uh, bringing in the right work, but not executing it, which we've already talked about, um, the built in dependency, you know, you also work with ops because there's that tension between capacity and sales. And do we have enough? And ultimately, like, I think we're doing the best job of marketing and sales that we ever have in the history of DBA today under your leadership. [00:41:30] And part of that is how you work with Amy and the team, uh, to make sure that there is capacity and you want to make sure that that new prospect comes in at the right time, they're paired with the right team that has both the ability to serve them and the knowledge to serve them well. And so, um, I think we're doing a great job in, in other instances, it could have been just, hey, let's fill up the funnel, let's say yes to everything.

Marcus Dillon: And then once it's in the door, figure out who's going to do it or how we're [00:42:00] going to do it, or are we going to outsource part of this? Um, all of that's been a very real part of our previous, uh, and so, uh, but under today's leadership, you know, I think we've got it a little bit fine tuned in your sales and marketing role. And so even kind of hit on it, but what is a director of sales look like? What is a director of marketing look like? And those are questions that we're currently, uh, exploring as we grow. And, uh, you know, there's also this lens of business development, uh, [00:42:30] business development right now that's, that's actually not a part of this sales and marketing role because, uh, of just where we're placing priority within it. So my role wasn't even spoken about, but as managing director, some of the business development falls under my responsibility. Um, and really as managing director, uh, it's, it's focused on growth and opportunities. Um, and so business development is a little bit more natural, uh, in that role versus [00:43:00] sales and marketing. So all that to say, it depends on how you define it, what you want to see happen within these roles as you grow. And this is where we're at today within DBA.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. Are you ready to move on to okay, we defined all of these things. We said what these roles are responsible for. How do we actually make sure that it happens and doesn't just go back to you as managing director?

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, let's talk about that.

Rachel Dillon: All [00:43:30] right. And so for us, um, we just, we have to have some way to measure these things, uh, not just for you and I to know what's going on and feel like we have some semblance of control. But for each person in that role to know what success looks like. So if there aren't, if they don't know how they're being measured, um, they're kind of just throwing darts and hoping one hits in or around the bull's eye [00:44:00] and that they're doing the right thing. And so we with our director roles, we definitely have a scorecard that goes with this. And so we are as directors rating this on a monthly basis. It's new that I don't know if we mentioned that that this is newer. Um, and we're still working on it as we are talking about it. Um, but we definitely have it rolled out. And so I believe it's once a month [00:44:30] that we fill in our scorecards where we are giving updates on our metrics every week. We're answering our question, um, of what we're supposed to be doing in our roles, but on a monthly basis, we're actually tracking the metrics that go along with.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And that's where all of this is great to like put out there, put people in seats. And then if you never review this again, if you only want to bring it up at someone's once [00:45:00] a year employee review meeting, right? Like this is not going to be successful. So if you do want to go through all the trouble of having this, you actually have to build in the accountability. Um, and that scorecard that you kind of reference, like, obviously that is the important part. Um, not only for the week to week, but then benchmarking over time and how are we doing? What do those numbers mean? Um, so yeah, some of the, some of that meeting, some of the is opening [00:45:30] it up, being vulnerable with the rest of the directors in that room. Uh, which is great because then people can say, how can I help you in this? Like, what do you need from me to be successful? Um, the way that that could work in a, like just in an environment like ours, right? Is, hey, there's an opportunity to, to do these, um, you know, these Covid related penalties and interest, uh, clawbacks if we wanted to go through that, that probably lends itself then to the sales side.

Marcus Dillon: So what does that look like? And then the capacity [00:46:00] side. Like who's going to do that work? So even in like that conversation, right. That happens on a, on at a director level in a weekly meeting. It's, you know. Three directors already involved, um, on that just very simple case because. Someone reached out and forwarded us like a news article where that this is an opportunity. And should we pursue it? So before we just say yes, let's unpack that. Let's talk about it as. You know, directors that are each individually, you know, responsible [00:46:30] for a certain area. Um. And then you can make a collective decision whether or not to pursue something. So. The scorecard in the meeting very important. Um, and we do not meet, uh, just a meet. And so. It's one of those where, uh, it has to be an important reason to get that level of. Knowledge in the same room, because that's an expensive meeting. If you boil it down to. The per hour cost of the folks that are sitting there.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. So currently we're we [00:47:00] have our scorecard in a spreadsheet, um, as accountants do. And we have a dashboard tab. So there's a tab for each director role to fill in their KPIs, uh, their, the status of those KPIs. Um, it does get color coded based on what you choose and then all feeds into a tab that is a dashboard that just lets us know, is this area on track? Is it at risk or is it off track? And so that we can dig into anything that's at risk or off track. [00:47:30] We can also celebrate what's going well. But also during this meeting, we need to ask like, what do you need from someone else during this time? So not necessarily like if, if you have an area, let's say sales and marketing, um, is not hitting their metrics. We don't have enough right fit leads in the door. We have, let's say zero, we have zero right fit leads. And so we're red. We're off track for sales and marketing. Um, the question is probably not what happened? What [00:48:00] didn't you do? Why is it zero? Um, the question then would be what do you need from us in this, in the, all the directors.

Rachel Dillon: Um, and just an example of something that I might say that I need, I might say I need, you know, some sort of educational material or, um, download if you will. I need something to give to prospects that they couldn't, that they don't just have at their fingertips [00:48:30] that they don't know they need to be thinking about that they might be missing, um, in something that they're doing just so that I have something to lead with whenever I go out to contact prospects that would make our firm attractive. And so that's something where they could help me as not being like a technical accountant in my role to help improve my metric. Um, I think that that's a really, it's really helpful. Um, and it's really important because, [00:49:00] you know, you, you are, the person is the director, but that doesn't mean that they have to do it completely on their own. Ideas from other people or assistance from other people is always going to be better than working completely in a silo.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And part of that, like there's trust in that room. Um, and if you have people that, you know, they're not there to really ask, you know, what do you need from this room? And they're okay with either you failing or wanting you to fail. That's an [00:49:30] awful situation and you need to address that. Um, and a lot of times with director level team members versus partners that were just came together and are doing business and caring about their own clients or their own service area. Um, like that's just not a healthy, uh, environment. So if you want to know why a lot of these M&A roll ups are moving to director led and or executive led and board led, like because of some of the problems that [00:50:00] have occurred over generations with just partner led partnerships. Um, and the awful marriage that exists in the businesses. So, um, hopefully nobody listening to this has that, uh, current situation. They probably live through that or live through it with a client or two. But, um, I think, I think those are important just because it's not explaining the past, it's, it's really thinking about how do we, how to become successful in the present and the future. And that's an important place to be. [00:50:30] So yeah, but that's, that's the director level roles that are going into place, uh, in DBA and those have been there.

Marcus Dillon: We may have already given that title to somebody, but now we're just chewing up and building that out in ways that we hadn't before. Um, just so people can be successful and they know the opportunity they've been given, they know the responsibility and how they're accountable and all that fun stuff. So that is what or one component, uh, that we are working on in improvement season. And what I would say [00:51:00] is it's also been very helpful for us, uh, being in collective to have all of this front and center on our dashboard as far as streamlined OS is concerned and being able to know as a leadership team, uh, what we're working on, what's been prioritized, what our KPIs on. And so we know not to get distracted by squirrels, um, and to remain focused during this improvement season because improvement season, like the, the minutes that exist here are just maybe more important [00:51:30] than the, than the minutes that exist during a busy season or a tax season, whatever you want to call that. Because here's where we're planting the seeds to go, then harvest later on, um, once that time comes.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, absolutely.

Rachel Dillon: So we are sharing this as a resource with listeners if they would like to have a copy. Um, it will be available in the resources of collective by DBA. So if you are listening today and you have not [00:52:00] joined the conversation of collective by DBA community and the firms there, uh, reach out. We would love to talk with you so you can visit our website at collective CPA or you can email me, Rachel at collective dot cpa.

Marcus Dillon: All right. Well, thanks for having the conversation and look forward to the next.

Rachel Dillon: Thanks for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed the conversation and want to learn more, be [00:52:30] sure to visit collective CPA. You can schedule a meeting directly with me, Rachel by clicking on the Contact Us page. Be sure to subscribe, like, and share so you don't miss any future episodes. We look forward to connecting with you soon.