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Career education is a vital pipeline to high demand jobs in the workforce. Students from all walks of life benefit from the opportunity to pursue their career education goals and find new employment opportunities. Join Dr. Jason Altmire, President and CEO of Career Education Colleges and Universities (CECU), as he discusses the issues and innovations affecting postsecondary career education. Twice monthly, he and his guests discuss politics, business, and current events impacting education and public policy.
Jason Altmire (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to another edition of Career Education Report. I'm Jason Altmire, and today, we are going to talk about what it takes to get ahead in business and in life. And the key to that is to be nice. And we need to... Certainly in today's world, we need more of that. I think you're going to be very interested in our guest today, and he's Winn Claybaugh. He's the author of a book called Be Nice, (or Else!) It was widely acclaimed, self-help and business book about how to get ahead in life and your career simply by being nice. And he's a leading motivational speaker. He's spoken all around the world. He's a business owner for more than 40 years. He's the founder, co-owner, and dean of Paul Mitchell Advanced Education, a franchisor of more than 100 cosmetology and/or barbering schools throughout the United States. And the growth of the company has been nothing short of phenomenal, and we're going to talk about that and how that happened.
(01:06)
And he's been recognized, and the company's growth has been recognized by countless business publications over the years. And I think what's most impressive to me about Winn and about the company is he and Paul Mitchell Advanced Education have earned numerous awards and accolades in recognition of the work that they do, especially the charity work and community engagement. And over the past two decades, Winn has led the Paul Mitchell school network to collectively raise over $25 million to multiple charitable organizations. And I can tell you, whenever I visit a Paul Mitchell school, that is what immediately stands out to me. It's the culture of the organization. They focus on giving back to their communities. And that focus clearly, as with any business, starts at the top, and Winn Claybaugh is at the top. So Winn, thank you very much for being with us today.
Winn Claybaugh (02:04):
Jason, it's truly a pleasure. I love the work that you do. And by the way, as a leader of that incredible organization, I love that you show up, that you're present, and that just speaks volumes. So thank you so much for that.
Jason Altmire (02:18):
Well, I appreciate that. And I have visited numerous Paul Mitchell schools across the country, as you know, and I meant what I said, that the culture just seeps through everything that you see when you visit one of those schools. We've all heard that people don't quit companies, they quit bosses, and you in your book discuss transparency and perception, and as you put it, just don't be a jerk as a leader. So can you talk a little bit more about that, that cultural significance of the way that you as a leader approach the job and how people quit companies? They don't quit companies, they quit bosses.
Winn Claybaugh (02:57):
Absolutely. And I'm glad that at beginning, the introduction, you talked about my book, Be Nice, and maybe we need a lot more of that these days. And I'm wondering, when you were saying that, how many people listening to this wanted to already check out. They're like, "That has nothing to do with business, being nice. If you're nice, you can't get the job done. You can't manage people. You can't lead them. If I'm nice at work as the boss or as a team member, then people will view me as being weak." And I just want to dispel all of that. And you're right, that 50% of people who quit their jobs did so to get away from their boss, did so to get away from a toxic culture, and what they're trying to get away from is a culture that does not sustain this belief system, this culture of being nice.
(03:42)
I love in the beauty industry, we say that hairdressers go to work every single day with the intention of having fun. And I wonder how much of that is true in many other industries as well. Doesn't have to be just the beauty industry where people want to have fun. I'm sure in every company, in every store, in every business, that's what people are looking for. And so why not have that be a part of that culture, a culture that is about being nice? And when we talk about culture, culture happens when two people come together. So when two people come together, there is a culture. And we have to decide what that culture looks like and what that culture feels like, or it will be decided for us. And oftentimes the culture that can exist in some companies is a culture that's toxic. And again, that's why people are quitting.
(04:30)
And by the way, those who quit are not the worst employees. It's the best employees. They quit. Why? They know that they deserve better. They know that they deserve a better culture. And the ones who are the worst employees, they stick around. They know that they're part of the problem. We call them spoons. They just stir things up.
Jason Altmire (04:48):
You brought up an interesting point about your schools and the students that you serve. I have observed this. They're almost always in a good mood. They are having fun. They enjoy going to school during the day. They enjoy the curriculum and the interaction with students and faculty. Do you feel like that translates well to other types of businesses? Let's say you're in the finance industry or the healthcare or construction, whatever it might be. Maybe those type of leadership traits would not translate as well. What do you think about that?
Winn Claybaugh (05:22):
They absolutely translate well into every industry because, again, people want to enjoy their job. I have a joke for you. So this business leader is given a tour of his store, of her facility, of the office, and the person asks, So how many people work here?" And the leader responds with, "Oh, about half. About half work here." And the reason why that can happen in some businesses, in some schools, in some organizations is because people are not engaged. Now, maybe they're engaged with their time, meaning people show up for one thing and one thing only, and that is to receive a paycheck. They got to pay the bills, but they're not engaged with their passion, with their creativity. And oftentimes when people are not engaged, what do we want to do? We just want to fire them. But you cannot fire your way into building a better team of people.
Jason Altmire (06:13):
That reminds me, what is your observation? Your book came out before COVID and before everybody became familiar with Zoom and this virtual world that we live in now. How important is it? This is a debate that's happening across the country related to business and whether people need to be in person and physically in an office, and the pros and cons of that. What is your opinion of how that works?
Winn Claybaugh (06:40):
I understand the world that we live in, and we can get a lot done virtually. I think that there are many team members who are more productive because they're not having to spend an hour or so on the freeway. They are able to maybe work for home and assume other roles of being a parent. And so I absolutely understand that. But I also believe that as human beings, we thrive on connection. We thrive on face-to-face being with each other. To break it down super, super simple. I believe that there are three basic human needs. The first basic human need is people need to feel safe. If people do not feel safe, they don't feel connected. Number two, people need to feel that they belong, and that's a huge one. People need to feel that they belong. 60% of people say, "No one has my back."
(07:33)
And by the way, half of them are married. Now, you can imagine going to a work environment and you don't feel like you belong, you don't feel like you're heard, you don't feel like your opinions matter, you don't feel like the boss cares about you, you don't feel like you're safe. Why? Because there's gossip going on. And then the third basic human need is people need to feel that they have a purpose. And the best way that I know how to explain and share this one is you can have two janitors working for the same elementary school. One has the attitude of these little brats make a mess around here and it's my job to clean it up, and the other janitor has the attitude of it is my privilege to create a clean learning environment for the next generation that's going to save this planet. So they both have a job, but one has a purpose.
Jason Altmire (08:23):
And talking about leadership specifically, you have a very clear definition of leadership. Can you talk about how you see that?
Winn Claybaugh (08:32):
I have actually two definitions that I would love to share with you, because first of all, I want to qualify everyone. Because again, when we say the word leader, half of the audience checks out. They're like, "Well, I'm not the boss. I don't have the title." And let me just state that clearly. Leadership is not about a position. It's not about a title. Leadership is an attitude. It's a mindset. It's an energy. And so my first definition of leadership is someone who has influence over another human being, which by definition means everybody is a leader. You have influence over total strangers standing in line at the grocery store. You can make that stranger's day, or you can ruin that stranger's day. Why? You have influence. Well, you can imagine the influence that you have going to the same office, the same school, the same location day after day with the same group of people.
(09:24)
You have influence, even though you may not have the title, the position. And my second definition of leadership is someone who gets the job done along with the efforts of other people who gladly and confidently follow. Now, there's a couple of parts to that statement. Because I do know leaders who do get the job done along with the efforts of their people, but their people don't gladly and confidently follow them. And that's what we're talking about here in terms of leadership. A leader, again, is responsible for the energy, for the culture that exists within those four walls every single day.
Jason Altmire (10:06):
Talk more about culture. What do you mean specifically by culture? I referred to it a couple of times. Why is it so important to pay attention to a company's culture?
Winn Claybaugh (10:17):
A lot of leaders, a lot of business owners will focus more on their systems. They'll focus more on their financials than they will on culture. Absolutely, systems are important. Systems run our businesses, right? Absolutely, you have to be fully aware of the bottom line. You have to know what's going on financially within your organization. But as a lot of business leaders and mentors will say, culture eats systems for lunch. Again, culture is that experience that we all feel. You can walk into a restaurant, and within 30 seconds, you make that decision. I like it. I don't like it. Companies like Disney, they're all about that culture. And there's many other organizations that we could look to as mentors to create a culture that, again, people feel like they belong there. And when you're bringing out the best in other people, you better believe productivity increases, profits increase, absenteeism, diminishes.
Jason Altmire (11:20):
I think you're absolutely right. You can tell immediately, when you walk into, whether it be a retail store, a fast food restaurant, as you said, an amusement park, a school, whatever it might be, what the culture of the organization is. And any business course will tell you that that culture starts at the top. So it does make a huge difference. And when the boss at the top does not have an attitude of being nice, of valuing the employees, it does seep through the organization. And you talk extensively about this in your book, and talking about people just not being jerks as you put it. So what are the ways that business leaders can be perceived as being a jerk?
Winn Claybaugh (12:07):
Well, thanks for acknowledging that it does start from the top. I'm very proud to say that we have, again, over 100 Paul Mitchell schools around the country, and we bring our school leaders together a minimum of two times every single year, and those trainings last between two to four days. Because again, if it's not coming from the top and trickling down, there's no way that our future professionals, our students in our schools, who are our customers, are going to experience that beautiful culture that we're talking about. But collaboration is a very beautiful thing. There's this old belief system that if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself, which I think is the worst advice that anybody tried to give to us. Again, the best advice is that you know how to bring out the best in other people. It's not about how many points you can score, it's about how many points you can help the entire team score.
(13:01)
But sometimes you're right that you are such a jerk in how you take care of people. You're such a jerk in how you show up to work every single day. You're right that nobody does want to help you out, and so you do have to do everything yourself. And you may not be a jerk, but sometimes people can think, as the boss, that you're a jerk. And I believe that we need to own people's perception of us. And so just a couple of quick examples of that. People think that you're a jerk because you're on your phone all the time. And I get it that that's a device that we can't live without. You could be Mother Teresa, but if you're on your phone all the time, your people think that you are a jerk, and you need to own people's perception of you.
(13:43)
I have a 12-year-old daughter. I could tell you story after story of why that's her perception. Daddy loves his phone more than he loves me. So I work hard to make sure that I'm not on the phone when I'm around her. But how often does that happen in the work environment? Another example as to why people might think that you're a jerk as the boss, because you don't have fun. And we talked about the importance of having fun. You don't show gratitude. You don't show appreciation, which, again, is a basic human need. Or you're tired all the time. Oh my gosh. And I get it, there's so much... As the boss, there's so much that's on your plate. You have so much responsibility. But when you're tired all the time or you're too serious all the time, are you approachable? No. Do people want to help you out? No. And so we work hard to make sure that we're not perceived as a jerk. And that list just goes on and on as to why people might think that we are a jerk as the boss.
Jason Altmire (14:43):
I think it's really important for people to understand the business success that you have had. As well as being a motivational speaker and being able to talk about leadership, you, as I mentioned earlier, are the founder and the co-owner of Paul Mitchell Advanced Education. And if you could maybe talk about what led to the founding of the school and... Well, first of all, maybe the difference between the school and Paul Mitchell. Many people think of the beauty product, and so forth, and then the founding of the school. And then the exponential growth that the school has seen over the decades, what led to that process?
Winn Claybaugh (15:25):
So I've been in the school business for over 40 years. I started in the salon business, and then expanded into the school business. And the reason why I did that was because I thought that the best way to train people to hire in my salons would be to train them myself. And by the way, I absolutely fell in love with education. I fell in love with the business of education, to be able to create that culture where, again, as I said earlier, that people feel safe, they feel that they're a part of something. And it can happen sometimes that a lot of the students who sign up for our schools maybe didn't fit into traditional educational environments, where they didn't feel like they fit into high school or into a college. And so to be able to provide another career path for them was just something that I fell in love with.
(16:13)
So I partnered with John Paul DeJoria. He is one of the co-founders of the product line, Paul Mitchell, which I'm sure most people on the planet have heard of that product line. And so we went into business with each other 22 years ago. And our original plan was that we were going to open up seven Paul Mitchell schools around the country, and here we are with over 100 locations today. And by the way, that all happened organically. It happened because there was such a need within... Call any salon on this planet and ask them if they're understaffed, if they could hire more team members today, and every single one of them are going to tell you absolutely, we need more team members.
Jason Altmire (16:54):
You have your own podcast as well. It's called the Masters Podcast. You've been doing it since 1995, which I didn't even realize podcasts existed in 1995, but you've been doing it a long time, very successfully, over a million downloads now. Talk about what you focus on when you do your podcasts.
Winn Claybaugh (17:14):
Yeah, it's kind of funny. Back in 1995, I don't think that the word podcast existed, and I produced a brand new interview every single month, which by the way, I mailed out on cassette tapes to subscribers that I had in 10 different countries. And it is one of my most favorite things to do, to be able to have that opportunity, because I'm not a big reader. I wrote a book, but I don't read, so go figure. And how I've always gained my knowledge and my experience and my wisdom is by talking to people. And I just finally decided to add a microphone to the equation so that I could record their answers. And as you know, it's a great excuse to call somebody and say, "I know who you are. I've heard about you. I'm a fan of your messages. Can I interview you?" And nobody's ever really turned me down in all of these years.
(18:02)
In fact, the first interview that I did way back then, I did two, side A and side B of the cassette tape, side A was Vidal Sassoon, the most iconic man in the beauty industry, because I thought if he says yes to me, who's ever going to say no to me? And then side B was Zig Ziglar. So there you go. That was my first podcast interview that went out. And since that time, I've been able to interview hundreds and hundreds of people. And to have that library, because some of these people aren't even alive today, to be able to have that history and that library, which by the way, I now... I still produce one brand new interview every single month. And also once a month, I release what I call a classic interview. So I'll go back into my 30 plus year library to release some of those.
(18:51)
Again, it's one of the most favorite things that I do. I was also able to interview Colleen Barrett. She was the president of Southwest Airlines. She died within the last six months. And to be able to have that experience and that memory of her, and to have her voice and her incredible wisdom. Way back then, when I interviewed her, Southwest Airlines was one of the most profitable airlines back in that day. And she was the only female president of an airline of that size, and just this iconic woman, very well respected. I've also interviewed people like Larry King, and I interviewed a Catholic nun who decided to become a hairdresser so that she could do hair for the homeless. So get this, she tells me that she opens up this tiny salon, which was located in the bathroom of a shower facility for the homeless in downtown Cincinnati. And in those seven years, she did 10,000 homeless people. And she said, "Winn, I'm the only Catholic nun that can say I've been in the bathroom with 10,000 men and they all came out smiling."
Jason Altmire (19:57):
I'm going to let that go. I've heard you say that in other settings, and it always draws a huge laugh from the crowd, but what you said is true. Being able to talk to people who have been leaders, who have a good personal story to tell, and then share that wisdom with a larger audience, it's very meaningful work. And I think I want to end where we started, when I talked about giving back to the community and the focus that you personally and the Paul Mitchell schools have. You've raised over $25 million for various charities. I've been to your event in the fall when you bring your schools together, and then they share in the love and the admiration of what their peers are doing in their communities. Why is that so important to you? And does it make such a difference in the culture of Paul Mitchell, the school?
Winn Claybaugh (20:51):
In every community where we have a Paul Mitchell school, we want to be really good neighbors, because all of us are consumers. Everybody listening to this, we consume. We consume oxygen, we consume water, we consume trees. We even consume the paychecks of our customers who spend money in our locations. Well, if we're consumers, I feel, I believe strongly that we have to be contributors. We can't just take, take, take. We have to also give back. There's something that's called Generation G, and the G stands for generosity. Studies show that consumers, 86% of consumers will switch from one brand to another brand based on whether or not that business, that brand is giving back to their community, meaning if all you are concerned with is putting money into your own pocket, let alone what this does in terms of team engagement, team loyalty, if it's just that the consumer that you're worried about, well, the consumer will switch from one brand to another brand, whether or not you are putting money back out into the community.
(22:03)
But I was also raised well. I am my mother's son, and so you better believe that's how we were raised. You're going to give back. You're going to go mow the lawn of the old lady down the street. She's not going to pay you. She's not going to ask you to do it. You're going to go do it anyway. That's how we were raised, eight kids in my family. And by the way, my business partner John Paul DeJoria is this way as well. That's how he started his company with his partner, Paul Mitchell. This was a company based on making a difference in giving back to the local communities. And so that has just, from day one, been a big, big part of who we are in the Pail Mitchell school world. And by the way, the fundraising, you experienced the celebration that we do, that big gala that you have attended with celebrities. And we've had everybody from Magic Johnson and Dolly Parton and Betty White and Lisa Gibbons, and Donny and Marie Osmond have sang and performed at that...
(22:58)
You've been there. But that is the end of a three month fundraising campaign. So it's not just one weekend where we're hosting some type of a walkathon to raise money. It's a three month campaign that our Paul Mitchell schools are engaged in to raise money. And sometimes it's a bake sell that will raise $50, and that's how they raise money that day. And maybe the next day ,it's a cutathon. So get this, our school in Orlando, they came up with this idea to do a topless car wash. And so they put signs all over town, a topless car wash. And so of course, everybody showed up, but what it meant was they didn't wash the top of your car. If you wanted the top washed, you had to pay extra for that. Get this. Jason, they raised $1,500 in a day.
Jason Altmire (23:48):
Yeah, I bet you got a big crowd for that one, for sure. Well, Winn, it has been a thrill to have you on the program, and I really would encourage people, the book Be Nice (Or else!) is a great read, just as a self-help and a business book. The Masters Podcast by Winn Claybaugh, that is something that absolutely is worth checking out. And again, he is someone who has been a leader in business and in education and philanthropy for at least 40 years. He's the founder, co-founder, and dean of Paul Mitchell Advanced Education. And Winn, again, thank you so much for being with us.
Winn Claybaugh (24:31):
Truly my pleasure. Thank you so much.
Jason Altmire (24:35):
Thanks for joining me for this episode of The Career Education Report. Subscribe and rate us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. For more information, visit our website at career.org and follow us on Twitter @cecued. That's @C-E-C-U-E-D. Thank you for listening.