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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:You guys this is so funny. Someone it in the packaging but someone has sent us actual magazines so that we could do our homework for therapy I think that must be someone in the community because we talked about it there or something how she asked us to do a collage and we couldn't do a collage because we don't get any magazines except for like a church magazine or something and so like it was we it was really hard and we had very limited choices on what we could use so someone sent us a stack of magazines which was so kind for us to be able to cut up and do our homework. It made me laugh really hard so thank you for that smile. I really appreciate it. We also got an art box from Lisa and inside it was some washi tape and a fancy art pencil and a fancy some graphite and which we use we go through that really fast so that's an amazing gift And then a little bit of paint and some art crayons.
Speaker 1:And then also this is a watercolor brush for, like a watercolor pen brush where we add the water inside the pen itself, which helps us be able to paint when we're sort of out and about. So sometimes we go to the park and paint while the children are playing and so that is super awesome and exciting. And it also had a piece of double bubble gum in it. And so that is exciting because I know who will like that. And that is very much appreciated.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Lisa. It's really kind. And then Dee asked, I really hope it's okay to ask this question. I've noticed that you do not often talk about the emotion of anger on the podcast. Indeed, I rarely hear you all angry or expressing anger.
Speaker 1:You all are so kind, so I wonder if that's just not an emotion that you all experience much or something you haven't shared on the podcast because of the personal nature of it? I'm wondering about this because anger has been something that my system has been learning to experience and express in healthy ways over the last few years. But because of growing up in a family that didn't even permit the expression of emotions, I experience a lot of shame when I feel angry. It feels very dystonic. So I was just curious about what your experience with this emotion might be, as well as others here in the community.
Speaker 1:I feel tentative to bring up the emotion specifically, as I want to respect that emotions beget emotions, and it's a tricky topic for a lot of folks. Oh, wow, That's a really big question. And I think I have to think about it for a minute. We certainly get angry. And I think that we feel anger.
Speaker 1:Usually I think I would associate anger with injustice and I think that injustice for us is often associated with not feeling safe as well. And so it's a very personal emotion because to express it directly includes admitting where there is hurt or where there is injustice and how that is harmed. And so I think we're careful about expressing it not because that's too personal, but because often when there's injustice, the people causing injustice don't actually give a flying flip. And so, like, if they don't care and they're not actually responsive to tending to people's hearts and souls, then it's not a piece we would give away more of. So when it's not safe to share, then it's certainly not safe to give away more pieces.
Speaker 1:That being said, there are other times that our anger disguises hurt in ways that are not as productive. So I think that shows up with the kids. Sometimes I get angry at my children where they're just doing things that are really developmental issues, not actually behavioral issues, but it slows it down or it disrupts the day or when they hurt each other or when they're being or when they are making choices that feel like danger or could grow into danger, then those things I think we respond to more directly. But even under that, I think there's hurt. Like when they're mean to each other, I am hurt because I care about all of the children.
Speaker 1:And so it hurts my heart when they're mean to each other. So I think for us, we probably are just not there yet in therapy, but also I'm acutely aware that anger is often very associated with hurt. Like the anger response is in response to the injustice that caused harm, right? And so I think often when we notice anger what happens is we just firm up our boundaries. So like for example during the pandemic when the politics got so intense and there were protests going on and things like that, I was hurt and angry when some people did not use platforms to try and stand up for those who were being wounded.
Speaker 1:Because I felt there was an injustice not just being not just toward the people being oppressed, but also an incongruence between who those people with platforms said they were and how they behaved. And excusing bad behavior made them be in the category of perpetrators and so that made me angry at those two layers of injustice. But even that really underneath that is about hurt. Like I felt betrayed by those people and felt like people that I had thought were the safest people of all were not safe at all. And so even that anger goes back to hurt.
Speaker 1:And so maybe it still comes out sideways for us, but feelings coming out sideways is not healthy. I think the closest we get to that personally is because we use the podcast to process and don't necessarily think about that consciously, that there are things that we process on the podcast probably make other people angry because we shouldn't be talking about it publicly. But if we don't have connection and stability in other ways, and this is our literal only outlet. And at this point, when we think about how hard last year was for us personally and all that we were going through personally, with the pandemic on top of it and the politics on top of it, then the people who felt safe and the people we are close to now are the people who did speak up last year and are the people who did take the pandemic seriously last year and are the people who did show up and check on us last year in whatever ways that that meant. And I think that it was really a shifting or that's not the word a sifting of who was real and who was safe and who was not.
Speaker 1:Because people's colors showed up last year. And if you say, oh, I'm gonna be here for you, and then when things really got hard, you weren't, that was loud to us. And I think that there was hurt there, but I still recognize it as hurt, not as anger necessarily. I don't think anger is a bad emotion. I just feel like it can either be a productive one or a destructive one.
Speaker 1:When people take their big feelings and use that to harm people, that's not okay. When people take their big feelings and work through them and try to improve either their quality of life or the quality of life of those around them and make that a productive expression, then I think that that is really healthy. And so I don't think anger is something we talk about so much because it's something we do. And so it's an active thing rather than something that gets expressed through words or reflection. But I also understand that you have a good point that we maybe just aren't there yet in therapy and that that will show up differently.
Speaker 1:So God help us all when that happens on the podcast. Yeah, I don't know. So I think it's a good point. I think for my understanding of anger, where I'm at right now in life, I just feel like it's so secondary that at this point, after everything we've been through, I would just rather deal with it directly. So if it's really just an emotion that points to where there is hurt I would rather just go right to the hurt and let the anger move on.
Speaker 1:Anger isn't something I want to sit with or hold on to other than it being important information to validate where there injustice or harm. Does that make sense? So we tell the kids, I don't know if we've said this on the podcast, probably we've already said this on the podcast, but we tell the kids all the time that feelings are like the Amazon delivery person and they're just dropping off information. We don't actually invite them inside to stay and we've come a long way in being able to accept that information instead of just arguing with the delivery person that this is not our package. The feelings are ours and we do need to look at them and it's the information from them that we bring inside and look at.
Speaker 1:And when we have not felt anything in so long or we're so dissociated from that experience that it really took us time, like a whole year and a half, if you were in the dark years of the podcast last year in 2020, the experience of learning to sit with our feelings and learning to see our feelings really brought about the capacity to also sort through our feelings. And so for me, I think that anger is just like a sign and it points to where I need to go, but I keep going. I don't stop and hang out there. But maybe we need to, maybe I'm not recognizing that in ways that are valid or maybe I'm still dissociated from that. That could very well be.
Speaker 1:For us as children, I think that anger was absolutely a dangerous thing and not a safe thing. And so maybe we've not gotten there yet in therapy. I don't really know how to answer that more, but that's where we are so far. But I think it is a good question and I think it would be a good conversation to have on the podcast. Mackenzie says that they would love to help with transcripts.
Speaker 1:I'm so grateful. Thank you, Mackenzie. I will send you some information. You guys, we have a whole team of people who have stepped up and they are knocking out transcripts almost faster than I can get them up. And I am so, so grateful.
Speaker 1:Am I so grateful for everyone who has worked so hard to help with that. Thank you. Cleo says, We are a system who has achieved spontaneous integration. Wow, what is that? As a natural result of healing and integrating our trauma, a fellow friendly system recently suggested we check out your podcast and write to you to ask if you would like to interview an integrated system.
Speaker 1:What an amazing body of work you all have here. We are diving in. We want to promote healing in whatever way that is best for each unique system. We also hope to demonstrate that integration can be a really positive and beautiful experience when it happens naturally versus being forced by a therapist, which we consider abusive or anyone else. It's not for every many.
Speaker 1:Oh, so they're in touch with the plural culture because they said every many instead of every one. A little about us. We used to be a widely published author on trauma and healing, but our system crashed last year after one of our articles went viral, which sort of exposed us all. We self sabotaged and took it all down and since then have healed extensively and integrated our system. We recently launched a new YouTube channel as a way to re platform our work.
Speaker 1:We will link it here in case that interests you all. We are transitioning to specifically sharing insights about dissociative Identity Disorder, but also how this relates and gives us insights to healing from trauma in general. Regardless of all that, thank you for what you are all doing. Wow, that's intense! Sure, we can talk about integration.
Speaker 1:I mean, why not? I don't know anything about the YouTube channel or or how to even look that up or what to know about it. But that also sounds like really quick, like being able to be in crisis and then a year later you're all cleaned up. Like kudos to you. We're years and years and years and decades into it and just plodding along.
Speaker 1:I guess we're on the turtle plan instead of the hare plan. The tortoise in the hare. Right? I don't know. Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Sure. Like, can send you a message. Lynn says, Dear Emma and all, I just finished reading your memoir and I'm so moved by your stories as well as by the engaging way you tell them. You endured unthinkable abuse, but were able to show us in a way we could relate to. I also listened to several of your podcasts, including your ISSTD keynote, the interview with Richard Cloughed, and Susan Peace Bennett.
Speaker 1:I am 73 years old. Actually, I look younger. Good for you! And I am diagnosed with MPD in 1992. The worst time for me was before diagnosis rather than after.
Speaker 1:I agree with that. Before we understood dissociation and like we I was a walking panic attack. I was, oh I don't even have words to describe like how anxious I was and how confused and distressed. So I hear you, I hear you on that. Having a framework for understanding what was going on inside me was so helpful in gaining stability and then doing the work that needed to be done.
Speaker 1:Prior to that, I attempted suicide and had a thirty day stay in a psychiatric hospital. At the time, I was a teacher in a Quaker school, then moved to public school, then moved to school administration, all the while decompensating, then reconstructing. My parts quietly integrated eight years after diagnosis, but they are still around, occasionally speaking up when they have something to say. Mostly they trust me to steer the ship. Wow, that's another big piece and more talk of integration.
Speaker 1:Like, it's a lot of synchronicity that makes me really uncomfortable. I just finished my memoir, which will be published by Kohler Books on 12/01/2021. It's called Crazy Reclaiming Life from the Shadow of Traumatic Memory. I led a workshop at Healing Together this past January and hope to lead two workshops in 2022. I've been interviewed by public radio stations and have an active blog and send out a weekly newsletter.
Speaker 1:This year I began a new group called Dissociative Writers that meets every other week. That's interesting we've thought of doing a similar thing not just with the community but like active writing whether that's prose or poetry or other kinds of creative spaces of just meeting together to kind of do that. It's so helpful. Our friend Vivian who wrote Losing the Atmosphere talked about that a lot about how useful it was for her to have a group to talk about with her writing. So that's great that you're doing that.
Speaker 1:So this person's group called Dissociative Writers meets every other week, one in the afternoon and one in the evening. These women and men are amazing writers and very brave to share their writing with each other. We have about 20 attenders and others who drop in and out. As a group, because they are so talented, we are publishing an anthology of writing by dissociative writers. The website is called dissociativewriters.com.
Speaker 1:If at some point you would like to interview me for your podcast, I would love to be interviewed. I also suggest Linda Crockett as a potential interviewee as she does dynamic in the fields of prevention and recovery. Oh, interesting. My experience of DID is unique. Don't we all express it uniquely in some way?
Speaker 1:In that my body memories and flat stories that seemed unbelievable never made the journey from back brain to the front brain where cognitive memories reside. And yet I was still able to heal and live a full and pain free, drama free life, something I never thought I would see again when I was in the midst of it. I think not having memories is more common than we think, but still a bit of an outlier. So my story, I hope is informative from that perspective. I wish you all the best.
Speaker 1:I listen to your podcast every morning while I walk on my treadmill. We are all very busy, but I would love to talk with you sometime if you have time. I would love a full and pain free and drama full life. So that is interesting and that's really great that you're starting a group. I love hearing stories of survivors, which I know that that word, some people are like, we shouldn't use that word anymore, but I am really for reclaiming it.
Speaker 1:But anyway, I love when survivors work together to help support each other and build community in whatever way that looks like for you because connection is so healing. And if we have learned that over the last two years, we just really want to share that when we hear about it. And so props and kudos to you Lynn, and thank you for all your hard work. If you wanna leave reviews on Apple, on the podcasting, or on whatever you listen to your podcast, leaving a review helps as far as just keeping it positive when we have these attackers from time to time or whatever. But just it's okay if people don't like the podcast, they don't have to listen to it.
Speaker 1:But if you do listen to it and you like it, leaving a review certainly helps. Thank you, Sarah. Kathy says, Hi Emma, I love your podcast. They were recommended to me by my therapist. I have DID, but I am also a healthcare provider.
Speaker 1:I have just written, oh, they share something they wrote and then that they spoke at Healing Together. I would like to share complimentary copy of my book with you. If you are interested, please let me know if you would like a copy. Okay, you guys, it sounds like there's some cool people that wanna come on the podcast, so I'll work on getting those scheduled. Thanks for writing in, Kathy, and letting me know.
Speaker 1:I also just want to give a shout out to the people on the community. It is going very well so far. People are really committing to keeping themselves safe and keeping others safe by being brave and vulnerable, but also having good boundaries and being responsive and keeping the focus of the community on healing and progress, which is different than some other support groups, which absolutely have a valid place in the greater community, and definitely use them and go there for those kinds of pieces. But as far as the podcast specific issues or things that we're talking about, then I just appreciate those who are participating and sharing and connecting. It's really just been such a beautiful experience and so, so encouraging.
Speaker 1:We will continue offering meetups and groups on the community as much as our rural internet will allow. It's been rough you guys. It's been rough, but all is well. All is well. Thank you so much and it helps feeling connected to others.
Speaker 1:We have lived where we live now for a whole year. It is summertime, summertime is approaching and it just reminds us we've been here for a year and how much we have learned and what we have been through in the last year or two. And it feels really good to be coming out on the other side and to be in a better and stronger and healthier place and to be in that place because we are connected to others and because we felt what we needed to feel, as opposed to having just pushed it away or under or dissociated from it and not dealt with it. So even though it's been a very painful couple of years, we are grateful to be working through that, to be letting go of it and to be moving forward and to feel the air in our lungs, not just from outside, but like in our spirit from having done all of this work and making this progress. Even though at the same time, it also feels like we're just now getting back on track.
Speaker 1:But that's something, right? Like it counts. So thank you for being there. Thank you for the support. Thank you to my bees.
Speaker 1:Thank you to the community. Thank you to supporters of the podcast and on Patreon. Thank you for people who write in and who share on the podcast and people willing to participate and all the courage that we have shared with each other by simply being present with each other, by showing up in the ways we can despite everything of the last couple of years and truly, truly grateful for the healing that it has brought to us and hope to offer that to you as well. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing. One of the ways we practice this is in community together. The link for the community is in the show notes.
Speaker 2:We look forward to seeing you there while we practice caring for ourselves, caring for our family, and participating with those who also for community. And remember, I'm just a human, not a therapist for the community, and not there for dating, and not there to be shiny happy. Less shiny, actually. I'm there to heal too. That's what peer support is all about.
Speaker 2:Being human together. So yeah, sometimes we'll see you there.