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Jody Broccoli Hickey is a 3D computational designer at Adidas. Jody shares how he leveled up his skills and understanding when making a career switch, and the joy of the creative process strengthened from pursuing opportunities that aligned strongly with his interests.
Highlights:
- The importance of spending time to level up your skills
- Learning the tribal language needed to communicate in different industries
- Let your unique interests be your superpowers and set you apart
- The creative snowball effect that can happen when you pursue your passions
More from our Sponsors:
This episode is sponsored by The Architect's Newspaper.
The Architect's Newspaper and AEC+Tech are hosting an incredible event on October 27th called Tech+. Join us there to play with new design tools, hear stories from top firms and schools, pitch your brilliant ideas or just nerd out with like minded designers. The event will be on Oct 27th at the New York Law School in Lower Manhattan - Don't miss it. Our listeners can use code OOA for 30% off tickets at techplus.co.
This episode is sponsored by Arcol.
We give Revit a pretty hard time through Out of Architecture, mostly because you didn't go to architecture school to spend your days stuck fiddling around with detailing drawing sets or waiting for a file to open. Arcol is bringing the magic back to building design by developing a BIM tool that is as creative and collaborative as you are. If you'd like to help build the future of BIM, head over to Arcol.io and join in their Closed Beta for early access to their new platform.
★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★
This episode is sponsored by The Architect's Newspaper.
The Architect's Newspaper and AEC+Tech are hosting an incredible event on October 27th called Tech+. Join us there to play with new design tools, hear stories from top firms and schools, pitch your brilliant ideas or just nerd out with like minded designers. The event will be on Oct 27th at the New York Law School in Lower Manhattan - Don't miss it. Our listeners can use code OOA for 30% off tickets at techplus.co.
This episode is sponsored by Arcol.
We give Revit a pretty hard time through Out of Architecture, mostly because you didn't go to architecture school to spend your days stuck fiddling around with detailing drawing sets or waiting for a file to open. Arcol is bringing the magic back to building design by developing a BIM tool that is as creative and collaborative as you are. If you'd like to help build the future of BIM, head over to Arcol.io and join in their Closed Beta for early access to their new platform.
Creators & Guests
What is Tangents by Out of Architecture?
Welcome to Tangents by Out of Architecture, hosted by Silvia Lee. We’re highlighting some of our favorite stories from the amazing people we’ve met along our journey. We will hear how they created a unique career path for themselves from the variety of skills and talents they developed in and out of architecture.
Out of Architecture is a career consulting firm started by two Harvard-educated professionals interested in exploring the value of their skills both in and out of the architectural profession. We’re here to help you maximize all of the expertise you have honed as a designer to get you a role that fulfills and challenges you. We have the knowledge, experience, and connections to help you put your best self into the market–and reap the benefits.
Ep 10: Connecting the Dots Through Your Career with Jody Broccoli
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Jody: [00:00:00] I feel a creative snowball, like rolling down a mountain often. If I'm empowered to do one thing creatively, suddenly, that snowball is rolling, and I start picking up all these other things. And a lot of that has to do with this kind of energy boost that I was talking to you about making, about creating, whether it's in the digital or physical sense. And I have found that ever since I made the change. Into working in this, fitness and outdoor industry. My creativity has also just been sparked a lot more.
Silvia: Welcome to Tangents by Out of Architecture. Out of Architecture is a career resource network helping designers apply their incredible talents in untraditional ways. We're highlighting some of our favorite stories from the amazing people we've met along the way. We will hear how they created a unique career path for themselves from the wide variety of skills and talents they developed in and out of architecture.
Silvia: Our guest today is Jody broccoli Hickey. A. Three D computational Designer at [00:01:00] Adidas. Here, Jody share how he leveled up his skills and understanding when making a career switch. And the joy of the creative process strengthened from pursuing opportunities that aligned strongly with his interests
Silvia: How would you describe yourself in three words?
Curious, Privelaged, Ever-changing
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Jody: I think curiosity or curious is one of the big drives in my life. I would say privileged. I think also, I think a lot of the things that have allowed a lot of these changes and fascinations and curiosity in my life have come from a place of privilege as well too, so I've been recognizing that a lot, and I would say ever changing.
Jody: It's two words.
Silvia: Awesome. I'm really excited to hear those come out in the rest of the conversation. And what is your background in architecture?
Jody: I did not study architecture or design in my undergrad studies, but in graduate school, I actually studied landscape architecture. And I was interested there in, because I had a really big connection with the kind of the [00:02:00] outdoor environment.
Jody: We started getting interested in the design degree. I looked into architecture. I learned a little bit more about that, but I was getting fascinated by the potential in landscape architecture. So I studied that in graduate school before starting to practice after that.
Silvia: And from there, what is the journey to where you are today?
Silvia: Or how did you move out of architecture?
Jody: Like many young architecture students or in the related fields of architecture, We are really inspired and fascinated by design school. And I think that's actually, this is rather similar in a lot of design professions, but especially in architecture, we're excited by the creativity, the freedom, the curiosity, and the learning that takes place in design school and expected, or maybe hope that would be something that would carry through professionally.
Jody: And after a couple of years we're finishing graduate school. And diving into working in the profession, I had the opportunity to work for a number of years in the profession and working in both an architecture firm and a [00:03:00] landscape architecture firm, specifically working internationally. I first worked in Singapore for a short period of time for an architecture firm.
Jody: And then in Portland, Oregon, where I'm currently, for a landscape architecture firm. And what I found was that I was really just using like a small percentage of not only the design skill sets that I had, but also just like my curiosities and fascinations. And it was very soon. It was within almost a year that I was thinking, Oh no, like what have I done?
Jody: And, but I think, uh, but I recognize the value of what I had, um, able to grow with and learn in my education and in my experience, I think as well professionally. And it was around that time that I started to, uh, bump up against people here in Portland that were working in the footwear design and development space.
Jody: Um, as many folks know, Portland, Oregon is the Silicon Valley of outdoor and like [00:04:00] footwear and apparel design. And I have always been like a gear and outdoor and fitness junkie myself, my, my undergraduate degree, I actually studied exercise science and biomechanics. And I was a track and cross country athlete for a D1 athletic program. And I even coached at my university for a couple of years.
Jody: What I realized developed these design skill sets and this kind of systems thinking that comes from architecture students and architectural people who practice. But I also had this background in sport and science. And it wasn't until I started to connect the dots between the work that was being done here in Portland and the fitness and outdoor industry. And the skillsets that I had developed in, in architecture and really started to connect those dots and realize I definitely had some upskilling to do that. Those connections could be really strong.
Jody: And after a couple of years in architecture and a lot of hard work, I made, was able to successfully make the change from working architectural design space [00:05:00] to now in the footwear design space. And I currently work for Adidas as a computational designer.
Leveling Up Skills in Computational Design
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Silvia: You mentioned the hard work, and I think, like, everyone who has made the transition knows about, like, those jobs where you're just trying to get your foot in, and even in architecture, getting your foot in, like, those, like, a lot of grunt work sometimes, just to establish yourself, so maybe you can share about some details about that journey.
Jody: I'm, I'm smiling about it a little bit because I'm looking back on my only a couple years younger self, but I'm, I'm just, I'm thinking, like, Yeah, way to do that.
Jody: I think a lot of it starts from if you've made it through architecture school for better, for better, for worse. Right. And you are definitely equipped with some grit.
Jody: We've got all these design skill sets and technical thinking and making processes that we graduate with. But we also develop grit on the ability to like work really hard and sometimes for better or for worse. It depends because that's also some of the, some of the challenge with the profession as well.
Jody: But. One of the things I started to do when I [00:06:00] was working in the architecture, the design skill sets that I was using was really limited. In my master's degree, I was fascinated by 3D specific tools and processes. And when I started to learn more about potential work translating from architecture to footwear design or product design in general, I was really interested in computational design.
Jody: So the ability to use computational tools or methods to do things that perhaps you couldn't do in the traditional design sense or a traditional designer would do. For me, that was Rhino and Grasshopper. And I was rather fluent in Rhino or traditional modeling methods, but one of the things I needed to do as far on the technical side was get more familiar with Grasshopper, more parametric methods of modeling or visual based coding.
Jody: One of the things I would do with the architecture firm that I worked for, we started at 9 a. m. was like the time we would all meet for our scrum meeting. I would arrive to work about an hour early every day for about a year [00:07:00] and go to the coffee shop just off the other side of the block and practice tutorials and practice, paying for courses to get tooled up in this practice or in this computational kind of methods that I use now.
Jody: And then I was also trying to apply them a little bit to work in my architecture field. But it was really interesting because the firm that I was working for, they put down those exploratory computational methods, which was really quite sad. I remember at one point I was working in Grasshopper and somebody was saying, Oh, you're going to go play with your little wires at your desk.
Jody: And I was like, Oh man, it's like I could make a, I could make a custom irrigation design tool for us here, but no, we all have to do it in AutoCAD by hand. So it was that showing up early, getting that additional time to tool up. On the technical side,
Speaking the Tribal Language
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Jody: and then there was also, I think, whenever you're switching to a new industry, even if you have the design skill set, you will still have to speak the tribal language. Every industry has its own tribal language.
Jody: I remember in architecture when [00:08:00] I first, and this is a design thing, but when I first started Went to some of my first design reviews. I remember if there was an object that, that sat in another object and nests in that object, right? So even like the language that's used in every industry can be tribal.
Jody: So I also had a lot of tooling up to do in the, the product design space and very specific to footwear and apparel design. And, um, I, I made flashcards some of those early mornings, I bought books on the, the design and development of, of outdoor gear. And I, I made flashcards like I was in high school again, and just learning some of the different terms for portions of a shoe or portions of the design process and about the human anatomy and all these kinds of things.
Jody: So I was this combination of trying to be able to speak the tribal language. And using the necessary skill sets built on what I had already learned from architecture and I think coming from architecture and understanding being introduced to systems thinking and understanding how all these connect was like the [00:09:00] was what made a lot of that possible, even if I was trying to escape from that profession itself.
Silvia: Yeah, so many things you mentioned just hit home with me, for example, like not being not feeling the vibes in your current workplace where they're like, even just the mindset about things. It's one thing to not care for it, but it's another thing to put it down, even just like really not even embrace it or embrace other people who want, who are trying to take on those skills.
Silvia: I feel like when you hit, when you reach that point where that's what your environment is, it's like almost like a clear sign that you need to. find a community that like, yeah, is excited about these things.
Jody: Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And I think also in design school, like so much of what's being, um, taught in design school now is research based design.
Jody: And there's a really big front end to the, before you even, we really start introducing or proposing design ideas. There's a really big like research component. And in the profession, I found that was like really lacking. And, [00:10:00] and I also found myself struggling to operate without that kind of front end. To the process as well too, to be able to make design decisions based on research or based on findings.
Jody: And very often it was like being introduced to a brand new project in the profession and then immediately drawing with our principal designer. But you want circles or do you want squares? A lot of the time that was... And I, and, and that was another thing that I was really seeking as well too, was like the, the bandwidth in, in, in projects for there to be front end research and, and to make them intelligent, intelligent.
Jody: Cause I don't mean that because we're talking about intuitive based design, which also is very valid, but I also really wanted to. Embrace what I was learning at school, research based design. I really liked defending that type of design. And that also wasn't happening in the architecture industry for either of the, the studios that I worked for.
Silvia: And sometimes there's just no bandwidth in like the scheduling of the project. Yeah, I found [00:11:00] myself when I was practicing architecture that all the things I cared about design and like being really thoughtful about the decisions we make. When you're up against a deadline, honestly, sometimes I was just like, I don't care.
Silvia: Just tell me what you want. And I hate that's what it became.
Jody: Totally. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And here you are in year one or two, right? You're already jaded.
Silvia: So now on the other side of all of this, what kind of experiences do you get in your work that you may not have had before?
Jody: Something that's really to add to this.
Jody: So. Around the time when in 2020 was when I started working for Adidas and right around the same time I started a small coaching business in Portland as well. And so I coach a group of about 40 or 50 long distance runners here in Portland. And our training group is called West Coast Speed Shop. And this has actually, the timing of it was rather, it was rather ideal because what's actually really cool is I get to work with a lot of the prototype and [00:12:00] innovative Uh, products that we're developing for Adidas, things that may be anywhere from five to 10 years out of actually reaching the market.
Jody: And I've been able to integrate both West Coast Speed Shop and Adidas in many ways. So we'll have athletes that I'm coaching, testing prototypes for our innovation team with Adidas, providing consumer insight as well. My week bounces back and forth and the integration between Adidas and the small business that I started myself, my, my week is rather full, but it's things that bring me great joy.
Jody: My week tends to be front loaded. So on Mondays and Tuesdays, I have. Uh, coaching with the athletes that I work with Monday night, Tuesday morning and Tuesday night, and sometimes on Saturday mornings as well. And then work with Adidas Monday through Friday. What that work entails primarily is working really closely with our innovation design teams.
Jody: And a lot of that is a combination of work with engineers, athletes, scientists, and [00:13:00] designers. We are working on kind of the future of sport and products specifically. And the way that I integrate into that workflow is as a computational designer, I'm often working with our athlete scientists to take data that we've collected from athletes, whether they're our elite athletes or professional contracted athletes, or if there are everyday users of our products.
Jody: Taking that data and often building algorithms that will then translate to a product that is designed or engineered based on that specific data that we collect.
Jody: This is where I feel both like really lucky, really privileged to be in this type of work to where My background and my love for sport, studying, having studied athlete science, exercise science and design, I can speak both tribal languages, which is really nice.
Jody: So I can talk with our athlete scientists and understand, um, what's on their mind, what they're trying to get [00:14:00] at, and then also to our designers. And I often, um, have been an intermediary between those, um, two different groups as well.
Jody: So my week consists of taking a lot of that. That kind of like triad of teams, design, engineering, and athlete science and helping build product with, with those groups.
Jody: For me, it's interesting cause I'm not, I wouldn't even say that I'm shoe geek. I am probably more so than the average person, but. The process is just great. It's fascinating, right? You're working with experts in these specialized fields that are, we're studying the human body. We're working with advanced materials and technologies, cutting edge design processes and methods.
Jody: And I'm, I'm in love with the process more than anything else.
Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. That was my favorite thing about architecture that you would take an idea and then you would iterate upon it and then just make so many decisions along the way. And your end product, when you see the idea that you first started with, and maybe like your first model or sketch, and it's just, you can see [00:15:00] all the decisions between them.
Silvia: It's beautiful.
Jody: Yeah, totally. And especially when it's. You know, collaborative as, as hard as it is, but that's, you know, that's really where the magic happens when you have a bunch of people that come from their specialized backgrounds, their experience and knowledge, and then you all make a thing. That's hard, but it's awesome.
Connecting the dots with Out of Architecture
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Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. How did you end up in Adidas? Because when you look back, it all seems perfectly aligned, but I imagine this was not an intentional path, possibly.
Jody: So out of architecture played a huge role in this shout out, but being truthful about it. It's funny, I was, I think I literally was typing. I think like many struggling architects do this.
Jody: What can I do besides architecture with an architecture degree? And out of out of architecture's search algorithm, which must have been working great, because here I was somebody who was like really 3D driven and 3D tool driven and Out of architecture pops up. And I remember going to the website and they had some imagery there that was showing the three D [00:16:00] printable shoe or three D printed shoe that Adidas had just recently released on the webpage.
Jody: And I was like, whoa. So I could maybe be doing this. And I started to, I very quickly made those connections where I was like, oh, architecture degree, athlete science background athlete coaching athletes. Oh my gosh, this is the direction I should be going in. But you have to convince other people that 'cause.
Jody: I have all that like internal understanding of how I could connect these passions. And I would love to say that it was this linear process that was like, reached out to Jake and was like, here we go. But no, like I applied to work all over the place. And that whole talk about iterative process, right?
Jody: Resumes and design portfolios, trying to bend my architecture work into ways that made sense for product designers and specific to the outdoor gear industry. And I have to say that out of architecture like played a really big part in that because one of the things I did with Jake early on the [00:17:00] consultancy process was getting walked through with and Erin getting walked through potential roles that they already know slot well for architects or people who had come from the architectural professions or school very quickly, you know, tooling up on the tribal knowledge and talking with consultants that were specializing in this, um, I was able to connect the dots about Where, when, and what I could potentially be doing.
Jody: I also did a lot of informational interviews with people. I think one of the benefits of being in Portland and being interested in this industry, there are lots of folks I could reach out to. Not only did I have Jake providing a lot of information for me along the way. But I was also reaching out to other folks in the Adidas team for informational interviews to talk more about the work that they did.
Jody: And same thing with folks working for many other brands here in town. So I'm collecting as many data points as I could to apply in this process.
Communicating Your Passions
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Silvia: Were there any points that like once you found [00:18:00] or realized like talking points that you realize this is like what you intend what you want to convey, and like in a way that the other person like maybe your interviewer, like really resonates with like
Silvia: I feel like in grad school when I was applying to grad school like I, you know, reworking things and then you just come up with a line that like Really is true to what you believe, but you also know that once people read it, like they also will connect to it.
Silvia: So i'm wondering what did you find after all of this searching and informational gathering? Did you find that was like very successful in communicating your intentions across?
Jody: Actually, it wasn't saying anything. It was physical objects.
Jody: Around the time when I was starting to make like applying to work in this different industry from architecture I had just bought a 3d printer And around that time, my 3D skill sets were growing exponentially as well because I was spending this extra time studying early in the mornings, being a student on top of my job, my day job, and I was starting to 3D print a lot of [00:19:00] things.
Jody: So many of our, so many of our interviews or informational interviews or even formal interviews for work were actually, uh, coffee chats. Casual, whether or not they were with a specific intent. And one of the things that I made was I started to 3d print these really tiny little lattice sleeves for coffee cups.
Jody: And it was interesting because if the coffee shop. across the street from my architecture firm where I was working, they didn't have sleeves for these little eight ounce cups of coffee. And I was always like, Oh, it's really hot. And so I had, I developed this, got this 3d printable form that just fits right on these, on these little coffee cups.
Jody: And I actually started a small relationship with the owner of the coffee shop. And when we started to, I made a lot of them, we started to sell them, but I started to bring these to my interview and just in different colors and the different materials and just, and give them to the people that I was chatting with.
Jody: And. So not only was I can and a lot of these people were makers and curious designers right and we're passionate about the similar [00:20:00] things that I was and I think that was. One of the gateways to being like, yeah, and I'm so passionate about it. I bought a 3d printer and I'm making these things. And irregardless, if I actually get this job, this is something I'm fascinated in this process from going from digital to physical, and I'm going to keep doing it.
Jody: I think also leaving something with somebody after one of these chats is really, it's really beneficial as well, because they'll take a sip of their coffee and be like, yeah, I remember that guy that was, he's got that weird last name. And honestly, it was bringing some physical manifestations of my digital curiosities to some of these chats with people, because I think we were all speaking the same language, our fascination with digital tools and how that was shaping the future of design.
Jody: But bringing something physical to our, our chats was something that really flipped the switch.
Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. That's really, it's so cute and beautiful to see, but I think it's also like an, like a, an object of your fascination and [00:21:00] excitement and just it's, and I love that it's not like a way to get a result out of it.
Silvia: It's really just sharing joy in a way.
Jody: Yeah, most definitely.
Silvia: Yeah. And like personality. So I think that's a really good piece of advice for people. It's what makes you excited and happy. And like, how can you share that with people? And you don't have to make something particular, like maybe it can be shown in like a video or like in a print out of your work samples, like whatever conveys what you're excited about.
Silvia: Like I I've always felt that excitement and passion are very translatable. Like I don't have to be a coffee drinker to appreciate what you made.
Jody: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think that is. I think it's intrinsic to us as human beings to want to work with other people that we feel good energy from, irregardless of complex and advanced skill sets. You want to work with people that are passionate about the things that you're passionate about and bring positivity and hopefully warmth to doing that because we've all worked with people that are brilliant but are miserable to work with. And I think, yeah, that's an important [00:22:00] part.
Silvia: Yeah. And even I've worked with many people that I think are just brilliant in what they do, but I think something that's coming out of this conversation is that it could be a small fraction of what you're able to do.
Silvia: And it's unfortunate, especially like if you're younger in your career to think that the next 30 years are going to look the same and that you won't be able to bring to connect the things that you love doing to what you spend 40 hours a week doing.
Jody: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Silvia: Do you have any advice to your former self or like maybe like the person that was like in the middle of it all now that you have the experience of looking back?
Jody: Grad school was really tough. I think both. Emotionally and even trusting in myself to kind of make it through. It was, everything was uphill for me in grad school. Cause I had a fine arts background, but I didn't have a design background. So everything was a really steep ramp that first year. Right. When somebody was like, this is Photoshop.
Jody: And [00:23:00] even though I have always been like design oriented and a creative thinker and a maker, like being exposed to all of these new methods of thinking and making, and. Your expectation for what you can do is here, but your ability to use the tools is here. And that is really hard for somebody who has high expectations of themselves, being able to succeed in something new, right?
Jody: You're excited about, yeah, I'm going to rock this. But everything you do just looks really rough. And I would say, I think it's just more like urging myself. It's gonna be okay. You got this. Trust the process. You're gonna learn exponentially. So what you're gonna be able to do and understand and contemplate next year will be so much higher than, than previously.
Jody: And it's okay. Take your time. Respect the process. Less of the outcome in these early stages. And I think one thing that I also really started to grasp, especially during the transition from architecture to then in the [00:24:00] product design space was don't be, don't necessarily be the best, but perhaps be the only.
Jody: And that was something that I really started to bring into my, into my small business that I started. There were lots of other running coaches out there or running programs. But were there any others that were like a coach who was also a designer? That's really interesting. And I started to really grasp that.
Jody: So I would say, continue to grasp that as we're looking back at my younger self, continue to don't think of these other things that you're passionate about that might seem different from your profession, you know, those are your superpower, those are your superpowers and you will thread them together with other things in your life.
Jody: Don't let go of them. Give myself that reassurance.
Silvia: Those are such good pieces of advice. I love the second one. I love encouraging people. Go chase your dreams. Know you're amazing. Because I feel like a lot of people will have thoughts like, Oh, everyone does that. Or, Oh, that's not anything special that should be expected. Or would anyone be interested in this?
Silvia: And every time I hear [00:25:00] something like this, I'm always like, No, that is really cool. Make it your thing. And that's exactly what you're saying. It's your superpower.
Jody: Totally. And it is, it's not always very clear, like, how to connect those dots. And it might not even, I'm not sure if you experienced this, but it was like messy and gross at first.
Jody: Until you start to hone it and shape it.
Silvia: And absolutely. Like you probably don't know what the connections are, but I think you just keep following what you enjoy and like, maybe you're good at, or you're really interested in or want to spend time in. And those dots will start revealing themselves. The more you do, the more the, what you do aligns with.
Silvia: And then I have a question, you mentioned all these different tools, and I think that's the problem of when you want to learn a new tool, you need an application for it. So when you have an architecture project that uses the tool, you'll learn it very quickly, but then you'll have a deadline where you need something out of it.
Silvia: So you will only learn exactly what you need to know to perform that step to get either the rendering or whatnot out of it. So I [00:26:00] absolutely feel like where you just need to, it's really hard to use a tool that you don't have that base, like understanding of what's it used for, how to use it well, like it's like really hard to get over that to start like using it, but is it just time just keep working at it every day until it just becomes more natural.
Jody: And especially if you're trying to learn design theory at the same time, right? So if you're trying to think about this slightly more ambiguous aspect of your work, design theory and methodology, and then you're also trying to learn these tools to make these things come to life. So it really is quite messy in the beginning and just disheartening a lot.
Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. Well, like, why is there so much to overcome as an architect? Yeah. Maybe that's why I always felt that you don't really Get to your peak until you're 50. And it's like all this experience and time that you need to put into it. Totally.
Silvia: How would you define an architect in your own words?
Jody: So I, whenever I think of an architect, I think of stages or phases. And I think that's what makes the profession. So, [00:27:00] um, special and diverse and challenging as well, too. Cause I think of phases as far as an architect generally has to be quite enterprising and business thinking. There's that early phase of client interaction, understanding what your client wants, what's the need of the design problem.
Jody: Second phase, I think, starting to think about taking that research or that information, starting to synthesize these ideas, these inputs into an outcome of a physical outcome. I still think of an architect in the traditional sense as an architect. And then from there, there's the process with understanding how to bring that dream or that concept into real life, which in and of itself is a whole nother phase.
Jody: understanding how things are made. When I think of an architect, I think of he, she, or they as someone who is, I don't want to say jack of all trades because there's also a lot of, you have to know a lot about each one of those phases.
Jody: Gosh, an architect is multidisciplinary. [00:28:00] A broad systems thinker who can also who can take a look at a project from a 30, 000 foot view and still be able to walk on the sidewalk as well, because you have to be able to do things that so many of those different scales.
Jody: You have to speak many languages. You have to be able to speak the language languages that your client will understand. You also have to speak a language that your contractor and there are many different specialties will be able to speak.
Silvia: You're so spot on about like the 30, 000 foot view with the detailed view like at the same exact time to understand both like you can't be caught up in each either totally like side
Jody: totally yeah, because your client is talking to you about, let's say your residential architect and your client is talking to you about.
Jody: I want a space for my family and for my home and that my children are going to grow up in. But you're also thinking about the tolerances of your different materials that you're using and all of these small details that actually make all of that come to be. It's, even though I've exited the profession, I, even talking about it, I still have a romance with it in [00:29:00] many ways.
Jody: I think there is. Even with those of us that have gotten out of architecture, I still think there's like a little bit of melancholy there as well, too, because I think we still want it to be what we thought it was going to be. We still have a romance with it. The built environment is amazing. And yeah, it's even sad, a little bit sad just to talk about it and think about that isn't as much, isn't as much a part of my life anymore.
Silvia: Yeah, absolutely. But what are the ways that you know, you still hold on to it? Like, I can see that like, the way that you think and process and like even see things like the way that you speak about them, like you probably Treat your previous work as an architect and now as a computational designer in a similar fashion.
Silvia: And absolutely everyone has to have some kind of passion for what they do, even if it's the tedious parts of it, like to want it to look, look well and perform well, like all of that still has to matter.
Jody: Totally. And I think that I still get, you probably [00:30:00] can associate with the Sylvia, but There's sometimes you get into a point on a design project and it's almost doesn't matter what it is, right?
Jody: Architecture, graphic design, product design, all things that I've dabbled in photography, videography, all things that I've done. Sometimes there's a stage in a project where suddenly I'm hit with such joy and energy from what I'm working on. It's like a, it's like a big strength cup of coffee, but it's what it is.
Jody: It's not architecture. It's not photography, videography. It's not product design. Graphic design. It's creative work, and I think that is, it's creative problem solving, creative work, making something, whether that means artistry, design, craftsmanship. It's something special about making something and bringing it into this world, and I think that is shared across many creative disciplines, and architecture is just part of it.
Silvia: I also think it's an incredibly empowering thing to experience. And I, um, unfortunately, or not unfortunately, but I feel like a [00:31:00] lot of people get this interaction with like ideas and bringing forth things like through wedding planning, because you're at a certain point in your life where, you know, you have money that you can put towards something.
Silvia: So it's not dependent on a client. You are making your own. Like decisions of your own day or days, like your own experience and you're creating it through your own decisions and saying what you want it to look like and be. So I feel like at that point, I don't know, people usually, it might also be like age and like finance related.
Silvia: There's, Oh, I really enjoy doing this. Like I'm going to keep doing it and realize like what you can create from it. It's like process of creating something.
Jody: That's a really interesting point. There's like a vision. That obviously accompanies, you know, a lot of like wedding planning and things like that.
Jody: And I do the wedding photography sometimes on the side and you're right. I never thought about that, but that may be sometimes the first time someone who doesn't work in the design world is thinking about a composition and many moving parts, all coming together to make this kind of. The orchestrate this [00:32:00] beautiful song of the day that yeah, that's really quite fascinating.
Jody: I think that also gives everybody or many folks a glimpse of the anxiety sometimes about this, this orchestration not coming together or a single piece and sometimes having to let go a little bit and just let it happen.
Silvia: Yeah, that's also why it's a very anxiety filled action because there's so much riding on so many decisions and that's what being an architect on a deadline like getting something built as things are changing is and it's horrible.
Jody: Yeah, totally, totally.
Silvia: Yeah, but do you ever have moments of that in your current life?
Jody: Totally, but they are just. One thing that changed heavily for me is having now my clients are the people that I are employed by my same employer. And that helps a lot. Because they understand the process a lot better, they understand more often how long certain things take.
Jody: They generally understand a little bit more of the value of design. Oftentimes when you're working with, [00:33:00] or the clients that I was working with in architecture, although you definitely have return clients, but they, they might not speak your same language. They might not be familiar with the process if they don't go through it very often.
Jody: So now having working for a large corporation, which I actually really enjoy all of the negatives that people talk about, it's actually been the complete opposite for me, but people understand the system and the process. And that actually gives me a little bit more freedom than when it comes to the client management side and getting them to understand, like, no, I can't give you construction schematic design phase because they're like, all right, this is great.
Jody: When can we start construction next year? I would say that I still get that anxiety of deadlines and the process when something needs to be done and it's just not there yet. But I generally have more flexibility in the work that I'm doing now to reach out to somebody to say, Hey, you know what, we need a little bit more time to really make this thing.
Jody: Where's our flexibility and where that also comes. One of the things I really [00:34:00] desired when I was a part of architecture was to be working more with my peers, people closer to my age. And I didn't realize how much of a boost that was going to be working for a fitness related fitness and fashion related company that tracks a lot of young folks and or people closer to my age.
Jody: And I found that was a massive boost both. I don't want to say productivity, but just like the enjoyment of my job speaking about similar passions coming from a certain similar parts of our lives or times in our lives. And that was something that was really lacking in me or lacking for me in architecture was working more with peers that were closer to my age, that were also making some of the making some of the larger decisions.
Silvia: Yeah, definitely. Like the ease to be who you are at work. That's what it was for me.
Jody: Yes. A hundred percent.
Creative Snowball
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Silvia: And through our conversation, it sounds like you have a lot of side projects or businesses that you do. Was that related to your kind [00:35:00] of going out of architecture in the way that you are now creating whatever you want, like whatever you can dream of, you're just going to make a, make into a business or a hobby or a thing.
Jody: That's funny. And I'm curious if you ever feel this way, maybe from starting this podcast and from your foundation as in architecture, I feel a creative snowball, like rolling down a mountain often. If I'm empowered to do one thing creatively, suddenly, like that snowball is rolling, and I start picking up all these other things.
Jody: And a lot of that has to do with this kind of energy boost that I was talking to you about making, about creating, whether it's in the digital or physical sense. And I have found that ever since I made the change. Into working in this, fitness and outdoor industry. My creativity has also just been sparked a lot more.
Jody: This branched off into me, uh, also starting the small business. I do a lot of photography work as well, too, for friends and family for the most part, whenever there's a wedding, but physical making as [00:36:00] well, too, I do a lot of, uh, still do a lot of drawing and a lot of physical making on my own, just for the sheer joy of it. And so much of that has been connected to me.
Jody: I don't know if it has to do with the coming to fruition with something, profession that I feel connected to. And maybe that's just lightened a lot of things in my life and the way that levity resonates is for me to keep becoming more creative into different things.
Jody: But yeah, I often feel like a creative snowball if one thing starts and then that positive excitement that learning that new tool, that new outcome, I want to start applying it to all kind of things. Just recently, I was a photographer for a friend of mine's wedding a couple weekends ago and had just gotten access to a laser cutter that Adidas that I was using.
Jody: And I was starting to work on these living hinges, these ideas to where you can take wood and you can cut it in laser cutter and you can bend the wood beautifully. And suddenly I was like, Oh man, I'm going to make this living hinge box with these friends of mine that I'm shooting their wedding for and I'm going to print their photos and put it in.
Jody: And that's what I did. And I added so much more [00:37:00] time to like my day and nights. But once again, this like creative snowball of making and curiosity that just will then start to feed itself.
Silvia: Yeah. It's like the way that you have to master tools, but it gets easier the more you work at it. Yeah. Exercising, creating things, or just taking ideas and just acting on them and making them into what you want, what you dreamed of, I guess that's another skill that you could just keep working on as well.
Jody: Yeah, totally. That's definitely, I think that's where the curiosity, that's one of the third, one of the three words. To define myself. And the first one was curiosity. And that really is a lot of the things that kind of feed that a lot of that.
Silvia: I'm curious about your other words, privileged and ever changing.
Silvia: Can you elaborate a little more on them?
Jody: Yeah, for sure. I think privilege, I think one, just being a white male that grew up in a middle or middle upper class. They're hiring a middle class family. And there are times in my life where things were really hard and I had a support structure. And not everybody has that.
Jody: And I think I [00:38:00] was, I was lucky enough to go to a private school from kindergarten through graduation because both my parents worked there. And I got to go free to that private school. And that was a privilege. I got a fantastic education. I had both my parents were teachers.
Jody: That was a privilege because they they emphasized education and learning and fine arts and all of these kinds of things that have contributed to me being curious and fascinated with making and growing and learning new things.
Jody: And there have been a number of times in my life where I recognize that if I had those structures or different structures, maybe the outcome would have been just as good, but it wouldn't have been this.
Jody: And no amount of grit, determination, or curiosity could have accomplished the happiness of where I am now. The contentedness of where I am, without that foundation that was given to me at birth. And I think everything, especially so with everything that's been going on in [00:39:00] our world, and where aspects of privilege come from. I've just been thinking a lot about that. I've been thinking a lot about it.
Silvia: Yeah. Thank you for acknowledging it that like some things we can't control as much as we try to do our best. And then ever changing?
Jody: Yeah, I think ever changing was one of those things that for a while I was so frustrated with myself about being like, oh, your curiosities are taking you all over the place.
Jody: You studied exercise science, you were a coach, and then you, I'm going to study architecture, oh my gosh, or landscape architecture. And oh, now you want to, you want to change this. And oh, you've got a minor in drawing and illustration, like all these. And although that feeds a lot of passions of mine, the part of me.
Jody: It's okay, time for some adulting, whatever that means.
Jody: There's that self critical side of me that says, focus, specialize. Whether that's myself or what society has baked into me is still in question. But ever changing in that, those curiosities often will, will shape the [00:40:00] directions or the changes that I'll make in my life.
Jody: And once again, coming from a place of privilege, I have the safety nets and the background of my life that allows that to happen as well, too.
Silvia: Yeah, I felt similarly at one point. It's all trying another new thing or so many hobbies that like, I have an interest in starting and then I'll get supplies for it, but then get too busy to ever touch upon it.
Silvia: But I've I've come to embrace that. It's okay. If I have a drawer full of unused things, I heard this once about books and I loved it. That's okay. If you have a whole library of books that you've never read, because they're all the possibility or potential of things you want to read.
Jody: Totally. Yeah. Books are a no guilt thing.
Jody: All the books.
Silvia: Yeah. And like also all the interest because maybe one day you will, and that's part of what you want to have in your life and it's just not there yet. That's fine.
Jody: Yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah. It's really curious to know what the next five to 10 years will bring. Yeah. What [00:41:00] curiosities will get smart, where sparked, where will this creative snowball go?