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This Dental Specific Podcast is dedicated to the Dental "Entrepreneur" Michael Dinsio, Founder of Next Level Consultants, delivers #TRUTH when starting up a dental practice. From the very first step to getting the keys of a dental practice, Michael shares his raw & unscripted playbook with you. Not only does this podcast provide you with "What To Do" but more importantly "What Not To Do". With over over 15 years of experience & over 150 past clients, Michael delivers an educational and informative program in a real and genuine way. Start w/ Episode 01 - as we go through a STEP by STEP process.
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Startup Unscripted. The questions you have with the truths you need to hear.
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help doctors get into practice the way they want to get into practice.
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hashtag truth. That's why we put it out there. What we want to do is we want to bring truth to the startup game.
00:38
And now your host, Michael Dinsio. All right, all right, guys. Welcome back. This is another episode of Startup Unscripted. Folks, we've got a good episode coming in today. It's actually our first live cast on Facebook. We don't know what we're doing over here, but it's kind of cool. It says it's says it's live. So, folks, we'll we'll start posting the schedule and you guys could maybe get in some
01:08
questions and stuff. But big, big picture here. We're running it back. Start up Unscripted, season two, per se, episode 30. And where we're at in the in the place and in the in the funnel or in the process timeline is real estate. So we've done vision, we've done demographics. Now we're getting into actually looking for space. And we have a legend on the phone today, a legend.
01:37
His name you might know is Colin Carr. He owns a company. He's a founder, CEO of it. Carr Healthcare Real Estate Group, or I don't know what the official is. Everybody just calls you Carr. So I'll just say Carr. So Colin Carr is on the phone today and we're lucky to have him. Thanks for being on the show, brother. Yeah, I appreciate it, man. Legend in his own mind, right? That's right. That's exactly right. Colin, just give us a breakdown of your company. mean, if you don't...
02:06
know these guys, probably been living under a rock folks, but just for fun, Collin, us the rundown of the company. Yeah, I appreciate it. So the company is Carr. We're a commercial real estate firm, and we got a double niche. We only represent healthcare providers with their real estate. So only on the healthcare front and only on the tenant buyer side. very unique. Most commercial brokers are generalists. They're going to do landlord work, seller work, buyer, tenant, whatever they can touch.
02:34
and they're gonna touch any type of deal they can, office, industrial, retail. So we're focused on the healthcare sector and we're only on the doctor side of it while they're transacting for their practice. I started the company in 2009 and after about five years of being just Colorado and working with several hundred healthcare providers, we decided to launch and go national and now we are in think 44 states, I believe.
02:59
We're actually licensed in all 50 plus DC, which is a really unique differentiator between us. There's very few companies in the country that can say that. But yeah, we have the privilege of working with a couple thousand healthcare providers every year. In fact, I think right now we have almost 4,500 clients that we're doing work for across the nation. So anything with your office space, if it's a startup, if it's a relocation, you want to buy something, you want to buy land and build your own building, you want to buy a condo or an existing building.
03:26
anything that involves real estate for your practice we help with. And you know, that's, that's it. That's our focus. And that's our niche. Dude, that's crazy. So did you, you may have said it fast. How many local, uh, real estate brokers do you have on the street again? How many was that? Um, we're right around, right around 150. It's changed. I had changes, but 150 people doing real estate to dentists and vets and medical folks. So, uh,
03:55
That's crazy. Some of those numbers are nuts. And I didn't know that you started in 2009, which is even crazier because that's before I even got into the business. that's super cool. Congratulations, man. It's been fun to watch you grow over the years and the experience will talk for itself. And so let's get into some of that experience on the show. So
04:22
In this in the spirit of unscripted, this is just a super cash conversation. Let's just talk about real estate. So since we're thinking about startups, right? Walk me through like some of the biggest pitfalls you see, Colin, when someone that's thinking about getting into ownership, but they they kind of stall out. They're not really super confident about the process and they know that location.
04:52
is very important and it is very important. So what are some of the biggest pitfalls or the reasons why folks don't move forward that you see or saw moving forward with a startup and getting into business themselves from a real estate perspective or from what you guys hear? Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, one of the things that I started doing like literally from day one, it's been a staple and trademark of how we do real estate. That's I think different than a lot of other firms is that we always negotiate with multiple
05:21
multiple landlords or sellers simultaneously. And this is a differentiator because most people have, you know, have an awareness of how residential real estate works. And so you go look at houses or you're looking online at Zillow or whatever, and then you find the house you want and you submit an offer and it's actually a binding contract. Once the seller signs that you're quote under contract and then you've got contingencies to where you can get out, but it's, a legal document. And so you get kind of like, you get one crack at one property at a time in commercial real estate.
05:50
the savviest companies in the world, Fortune 500s, they go after three, four, five properties simultaneously. And I had a background in corporate real estate before I started specializing in healthcare. So I brought that into this world. And so we go to market, we'll look at maybe seven, eight properties. It depends on the market. mean, you might be in a market where there's only three options that meet your criteria, if it's super tight. You could also be in an area where there's literally 35 properties and you got to spend like 15 hours just whittling it down.
06:18
Once we get down to those top, let's say, six to eight properties, and we tour the property with the doctor, et cetera, we will then pick the top three or four and we'll negotiate simultaneously on three or four properties. And the reason that's so viable is for a couple reasons. Number one, landlords get more competitive when they know they're competing. I mean, if you show up and say, I love this property, I've got to have this property, what will you do for me? And not that you'd say it that ignorantly, but a lot of people do make comments where they're just completely showing their cards to the landlord.
06:48
the land is not going to give you the best terms possible. And I always joke, it's like showing up to a used car dealership, saying like, I have to go home with that car. I get a blank check, you what's the number I should write in? It's how people do things. So we go, we go multiple rounds of negotiations and here's what this does. Landowners get more competitive and make sure that you don't put all your eggs in one basket. So if you change your mind, that property goes away, you're not starting over. But the third reason that we do it,
07:18
Is it gives the person peace of mind that they didn't miss seeing other options? Yes, yes Miss negotiating more aggressively and I think that's the key element of what you were talking about sort of why people stall out because they get you know They start questioning saying is this the right property should I go somewhere else? These are the best terms possible if you can eliminate those questions like you didn't missing any other properties. These are the best properties
07:43
you didn't miss a better deal. went three, four rounds of negotiation and you controlled that process with your advisor. You're not wondering, is this the right property? Is this the right location, the right deal? And so that piece of mind, in my opinion, is invaluable. And that's a game changer for people that stall out. You don't stall out even close to the same rate because you've got information. Yeah, no. So good because, you know, my clients are very analytical.
08:13
just like yours are. But like it's it's an extreme analytical where they want to look at all the options they want to see. They don't want to get stuck into a place that's maybe there could have been something better. They want research backed. They want to make to eliminate as many risks as possible. And so yeah, the more options, the more confidence I think is what I heard there and
08:41
I think that's so good. do see a lot of real estate folks only going after one property on some of my clients. 1000 % it happens. Colin, the environment today, I hear a lot across the country that there's just nothing to find. Like, Mike, I know you want me to find and pit all these spaces against each other. We've been looking and there's just nothing and single digit.
09:09
occupancies and blah, blah, blah, blah. Is that a true thing? mean, if it is, it is. mean, are we in that place? Is it opening up? Like what is it because the clients are too myopic in a specific area? Can you, can you speak to that challenge of only negotiating with one space? I would say this, you know, there's going be times when you have very finite number of options based upon your requirement and the more specific you get, mean, you can whittle it down.
09:37
I would tell you there's almost always gonna be a second or third option if you're willing to expand the search. And it's not about having three or four properties that you would move forward with all three or four. It just gives you an understanding of the market. So you might go to market, look at six properties, you might fall in love with one property, but it still doesn't change the game plan. You still go look at two or three or four properties because it gives you peace of mind. Like it gives you an understanding of what's out there. And then you can also leverage the landlords against each other. For instance,
10:05
the property that you might be the most excited about that is by far the superior option, they don't know that the option number two might not be quite as exciting as that. But if option number two or three is getting super aggressive with TI allowance or free rent, they're more competitive on other terms, you can leverage those landlords against your top landlord. It becomes a much more competitive negotiation. you might find that number two,
10:32
becomes number one in this whole process, because they're giving you a sweet deal. It happens all the time. Like people will say, have to have, you know, retail exposure. We'll say, that's great. But at least consider like a class A office that has a, maybe a lot more windows, maybe a nicer lobby and entry, maybe nicer landscaping or what have you. And then they go to market and look at it. And a lot of times people change their mind. They say, you know what, I'd rather pay 3000 a month last put an end to very targeted marketing and be in a nicer building than maybe the one that has,
11:01
bigger signage or exposure 1000 % let's back it up. Go go go to say but yeah to answer your question about how tight is it out there? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I already forgot my question. it's good. It's very tight in a number of markets. So I'm in Denver. Denver still has a good inventory. There's certain areas we said I want to be here we could say hey, I'm sorry, there's literally zero options. But it's pretty rare. But if you go to other markets like Nashville super tight or Milwaukee's tight,
11:30
You just have to be willing to expand your perspective on the market. And so what I tell people is, look, let's look at office and retail. I know you might want a big sign. I know you want to to the park and park right in front of your space and walk in. That's great. But if that's not available, do you want to delay you owning your own practice or starting up for two years to wait for the perfect option? I would tell you that's not the best game plan. You can do a lot with targeted marketing, as you know. And you can do a lot with working in the community.
11:58
I would say when you go to market, look at office and retail. Don't pre-determine which one you have to be in. Look at options to lease and purchase. Lots of people say, I don't want to own. Look, it could be the best option for you. But look at both options. And then maybe just kind of expand it a little bit as far as the square footage or be a little more flexible. And it'll help you have more confidence. Again, that peace of mind.
12:22
truly is invaluable and that's why you have a good CPA or a good attorney or that's why you carry insurance. It gives you peace of mind that you're not making mistakes or exposing yourself. You can do the same thing with Real Estate if it's done properly. Thanks for saying that, Con, because I'm going to back it up and start talking about analytics and numbers and how to justify a decision to make an offer. So I'm going to back us up in a minute, but I'd like to speak to what
12:50
just piggyback off of what you said and say in my in my world to where where I find that my clients get to myopic and they like I want to I want to be here. This is where I want to be this where I want to raise my family. And sometimes that makes me sad because I know that maybe 20 minutes that way is like the next up and coming area that nobody else is in. And it's just I get folks that are very set.
13:19
in what they want. if, they could imagine an idea of going to like an emerging market, they're going to smoke that area, their demographics are going to be better, which is where I'm heading with this next conversation. It it you're right, just looking at space, again, myopic, I have to have seven ops or six ops, well, five can get you to a million and a half, $2 million if you're really efficient.
13:46
having those conversations and being flexible can help find more opportunity. That's what I heard. That's what I see as well. Anything else on that before we jump over to demographics and how to find the right spot? No, I think it's just you got to play the the cards that are that are in your hand or that's available to you. And so you might say I want this square footage with this. If it's not available, you have to decide do you want to be in business and practice for yourself and build?
14:14
what's going to be a larger income stream that you currently have build your largest asset most likely, and do the things that you want to do is have full control of your schedule and how you do things. Or do you want to wait for quote, like the perfect option to show up, which may or may not show up and delay the process two, three, four years. It's really it's the same talk about interest rates. People are well, the interest rates so high. Who cares? You'll refinance in two years when they go back down again. But you know, if you ask someone in 2008, when the rates were
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basically what they are now. They're slightly higher now by a submission. But go back to people that were in 08 doing startups at 8 % interest rates and say, you wish you would have waited four years? And they're going to say, absolutely not. That was the best decision I ever made for the most part. you don't try to time the market perfectly because nobody can time it. We could keep these rates here for two years. They could go down tomorrow. You refinance. When it comes to real estate, you get some of the sidelines for literally three, four, five years.
15:10
Yeah, and never find the perfect option. But also, I'll tell you this, until you've actually been in there to what you think you want might not be what's best for you as well. It's great to you live and learn with that process. What you don't know right now is, is key. And I think that's again, having some trust with your advisors listening to your advisors, they've been through it, they know. I mean, they don't know what your vision is, like you do.
15:40
But the reality is, even, well, we're talking to two business owners right now. Colin, did your, did your vision change in the last 15 years? My vision changed in three years, right? So, so what you think you're going to make your vision that you have in your head, could be, could change. It could change in year one very quickly. And so I think that's key. And I think, I think too, you got to ask this question. Like is your goal to provide the highest quality service?
16:08
the best dentistry possible to have great staff great community and then to serve your community and serve your patients like you having like the perfect sign or the perfect like whatever doesn't make or break that like that's an intangible like it's it's you know, some of the best practices biggest practices They're not like in the perfect location. Maybe the building's not quite as nice as somebody who built a brand new building from scratch But yeah, if your if your goal is to be as profitable as possible to have a killer practice
16:37
that control your schedule, great staff, all the things like you asked the question, like, let's say it's like 90 % of what you want, like is it does that really change it if your signs a little smaller or maybe, you know, have you, only have windows on two sides versus three, whatever your wishlist is, the answer is probably not like it's probably immaterial to your true goals. Yeah, that the unicorn, it just doesn't exist. mean, it just doesn't. There's always compromise. I think there's
17:06
there's always opportunity costs, like you said, of not moving forward. What's that number? And so, um, no, that's, that's, that's great. Um, back, let's back it up real quick. Um, demographics, picking a space, you know, I rely on some demographic firms, you guys have your own internal stuff. Um, big, big picture. What is your like slam dunk home run? Like, what do you guys strive for?
17:36
looking for when when when looking at space and then what do you say is on the tighter end? Do you have like a bracket that you use as far as like things that are just sweet and you know it's going to crush it and things that you know are going to be more competitive? We all throw out our numbers. I'm curious what Colin Carr thinks. Yeah, I hate to give you like a depends answer, but it really does depend. Like I talked to a doctor yesterday and well,
18:04
share names or won't even share what city they're in or what state. But, you know, we helped him start up, you know, eight or nine years ago. And he told me he's, know, four or five months, four or five months out right now for new patients. He's got, he's got three doctors working in there, like six hygienists. I mean, just monster practice. And the demographics like it's the demographics showed when we did the location, it showed complete over saturation.
18:28
But we pulled up with all the doctors within and we were way less fiscated back then like it was like a print out a Google map and then just like serve writing on paper. But we pulled out like, you know, the demographics before we just said, look, like, like, here's the here all the dentists within like a two mile radius, you drive by each of their locations and tell me which one has a class A office and then you and then you get on their websites and tell me which one has a class A website.
18:54
And then if you want to spend time, we don't do this for you, but you can, or can hire someone, call them and figure out how far off they're booked in to get a new patient. And question is, can you do it better? Will you have a superior approach to the market? And so I think the demographics definitely matter as far as how many dentists are in a certain vicinity, but you've got to go beyond there because there's so many, especially in a more established, older area. I mean, you can find guys that haven't touched that office in 20 years. You can find people that
19:23
have not embraced technology that just have really, really poor processes. And they might still have a great practice, but the question is, you do it better? So if you drop into a new development or a new growth area and there's nobody there, that's great. If there's one dentist per 5,000 people and it's growing rapidly, awesome. But I think people are looking a lot of times for like, how can I be the first in?
19:49
you can be the first in, but there can be four people that drop on top of you. You're not going to stop the competition. So, you know, if we can find that new growth area, I'm all about that. And I think that's great. But I'm not afraid to drop into an area and find hopefully, you know, it may be a better property or better location, or just build a better practice, just be more proactive. And, you know, there's a lot of people that are that are happy with
20:13
you know, doing three, three and a half days a week and not growing and having a certain patient base and that's it and not embracing technology, believe it or not, as you know. And then other people say, look, I can do this better. that's why I hate podcasts, right? Cause I ask a question and then I box you into something that's universal. I think the premise of demographics is very valuable and it helps to frame the conversation as far as like, or frame the path forward. But I think there's a lot more that's there. Like for instance,
20:42
If no one's done a startup in this area in like two or three years, even the numbers are a little tighter, that's different than if you're going to be the third or fourth person that started up on this intersection in the last year. I think this is an interesting question. I want to answer, but I'll ask it. Would you rather have three people start up in an area that feels like it's underserved? So if you're going to serve at the same time and it's underserved, or would you rather be the first or only start up like in the last three or four years in an area that feels saturated?
21:12
Cool. That's a great question because you have to think like every single startup is attacking the market aggressively to get new patient counts, right? Whereas an established doc probably doesn't even know what SEO is, right? And so here you are going into an area that's underserved, like Colin said, and three other startups are throwing out direct mail, pay per click.
21:40
doing all the things that you're going to do, that's going to be a harder, that's going to be a harder play for sure. So I, I think that's really cool. I think what I, what I just got from that is do your own research, go, go, uh, organic here, because any report that Collins group holes or, or that I get from a dental graphics or someone like that, it's not going to give you how many weeks out they are on the new patient. Like Colin said.
22:09
It's not going to give you what their website looks like. And so I think, I think that's genius that when you're looking at spots and I, and I actually asked my clients to do this, whether they do it or not, I don't know half the time, probably not. It is go and call and look at the website, see what services they're providing. Do they have a membership plan? da da da da da. Right. And that's really what's going to tell you. So I love that Collins. That's really good stuff. Um, uh, good political answer.
22:39
Let's let's retract because Because you got my brain thinking about what type of space and I get a lot of the well Everybody says retail so let's do retail and I'm like, yeah No, I I'm kind of a little off a retail just depends There's a I hate to say that it depends but it does depend but this concept of Maybe not being on first and main
23:09
and taking the difference in rent that you would pay if you were on first name and putting it into marketing. can you talk about maybe I'm going over my audience's head with that, but I know you're picking up on putting down here. Can you go over benefits of retail versus, you know, tucked away, whatever, and maybe even splash in specialty versus GP? think that matters too. Can you touch on all that?
23:38
Yeah, definitely. definitely can. I'll start with the second one you pointed out. Depends on, mean, if you're going to get most of your business from referrals, that's great if you want to have a big sign in front of places. I mean, we have, like I was talking to an orthodontist the other day, he's got a high visibility retail space and then he's got an office space with no signage and his office space, his office location out produces his retail space like three to one.
24:06
because he's got better referral sources in the area of the office space than he does in the area of the retail space. So that's very interesting. there can be no difference in price if the office space is super expensive or it can be tremendously more expensive in retail. I was looking at a deal literally just yesterday where the office option is $23 a square foot full service. So that includes utilities and janitorial. And if you're paying utilities separate, you usually save about $1.50 a square foot.
24:35
janitorial depends on how much you have your staff clean, but that's probably $1.50 a square foot. So 23 a square foot full service versus the retail option was like 38. And so you take $15 a square foot on 3000 square feet. I mean, that's $45,000 a year. Ask yourself the question, like what's around the number, like $3,500 a month to do targeted marketing with it, turn it on, turn it off. I think that's great. Now,
25:03
And then, and by the too, the retail space, let me back up. It's actually more because you got to add back in the utilities and add back in the janitorial. So it's actually probably, it's actually going to be closer to probably, uh, that'd be 45, almost $4,500 a month, believe it or not. Wow. So, mean, I think if that's the question, I know what I would choose. I know that's how, that's exactly how I feel calm because like, trust me, it's way cooler to have the first and main big sign, all that.
25:33
It's way cooler. But the minute you hit, call it about 500 patients as a startup, now it starts snowballing. got the Google reviews going on. You got the internal marketing going on. You've been doing a lot of aggressive marketing. You could keep it going, but it all snowballs. And I think like in a year from now, okay, I don't need that exposure anymore because I'm doing all the right things inside my practice.
26:03
So now you can pull back on marketing and just make more profit. You can't pull back on rent once you sign that live. I mean, that's good business. So, um, well, let me, let me take it one step further, just to accentuate this. If you have an extra, let's say $4,500 a month in rent, that's not $4,500 per month in production. Okay. Let's take the profit margin. I mean, that can be 20 or $25,000 in production actually just to pay that.
26:32
that amount of money that's left over so you could pay that additional rent too. I think that the best game plan is go to market and look at all your options. Don't fall in love or predetermined before you've seen everything and then gone after it. And you might say, Hey, this is this, I feel the best about this location and I am willing to pay more. My staff's going to like it better. Great. But I don't know. mean, if it's a thousand dollars a month, you might say, Hey, I'll take the signage. Like that's, that's a
26:58
marginal enough amount of money that I'll do, but if it's four or 5,000 a month, which it literally can be when you factor in all the other costs. You know, I, I'm okay. So, so let's dummy it down for me again, benefits of retail. We already kind of discussed benefits of non-retail cause it's usually less. Well, sometimes brokers will bring me the same deal first in Maine and tucked behind. It's the same price per. So, so, so
27:26
In theory, if it's a non retail column, is it normally lower in rent? I'm making that assumption. No, what we got to determine next is, it brand new? I if it's a brand new class A medical office building, it's probably going to be every bit as expensive as most retail. Now, there's always an upper echelon of retail that gets like kind of like out of the stratosphere as far as what the rents are. They're going after the highest end retailers that could pay the freight. Yeah. But if it's, if it's a
27:55
Traditional office spaces retail, here's how we break it down. Typically in office, you're get a better window line. You're get more windows. At retail, if you might get on an end cap, we have windows on two sides. Usually in retail, you're have just the storefront and then it's gonna be less windows. So that's an aesthetic aspect. In retail, you're gonna have typically signage. You're gonna have parking where they can park and walk right into your space. They don't have to wonder where inside the building you are. You might pick up signs in a monument sign, et cetera.
28:22
And then a lot of times we're playing off of the foot traffic of other retailers and other tenants that are nearby. So those are some of the pros there. Some of the cons of retail are that you're typically paying more. also, know, neighboring tenants can be good, but they can also be annoying too. Like if you have a restaurant next door to you, it can be loud. It can smell. can, they can trust you with parking during like, you know, during their, their rush. If it's a breakfast place in the morning, could be, you know, people are parking, you know,
28:51
200 yards away because they're taking up all the parking. Typically a retail. Who doesn't want the smell of bacon when you're getting your teeth cleaned? Yeah, no, the worst is Subway. Subway is my favorite because I call it the law of the strongest smell. Okay. Whatever use has the strongest smell doesn't need to like soundproof, noiseproof and smellproof their wall.
29:19
Subway will go in there, they're baking bread all day long and their smell permeates the whole center and they do not like mitigate their demising walls at all. So if you have a subway next door to you, have to be very careful or any restaurant. There's a lot of restaurants like, well, our smell will go into the other spaces, their smell will come into our space. So they won't take care of their demising walls. You have to be very careful. it's terrible. It's like a pizza hut. Like, yeah, no, seriously, you have to really pay attention to a restaurant next door and make sure they did it right. And if not,
29:48
you have to go in there and do it right for them. do you actually sidebar, how do you protect yourself from that? When you're looking at new developments, can you put something in there and the agreement that says all neighboring tenants must mitigate their smell? No, I'm you can address the landlord, but you have to do your wall really well. And if it's a brand new space, you might choose to do both sides of the wall. You might just say like, I'm going to spend the extra money and make sure both sides of the wall are done properly. Um, but
30:17
Yeah, I mean, there's some legal things not to get off the weeds that you can make sure if there's no sorry, the landlords, the landlord should be the one stepping in saying, hey, you didn't do this properly. But yeah, so pros and cons of retail. You can also have you know, a vape shop drop in next door to you because they're sure. But that's not who I want next or in Oregon, you could have shroom shops and shroom shops in Oregon.
30:41
Yeah, and so you have to be careful. That's a joke. on. Oh, shrooms. They're legal here in Oregon. So there you go. we had a large optometrist, just killer practice. And then the landlord leased one space next to a vape shop and then another one to a check cash. you're like, was a really bad tenant mix. And it was a killer location. And those guys would want to pay a premium because it was a great location. So neighboring tenants can be good or they can be bad.
31:10
you go over to the office space. Oh, I'm sorry, one more thing on retail too. You typically are responsible for your own HVAC maintenance and the cost of that. if that rooftop unit goes out, that's on you. So you want to do a good job of getting contractors, architects in the space out of time and make sure that you're not inheriting like a 35 year old unit that's got one year left because you'll be cutting a check for 15 grand to replace it. So office typically, you know, a lot of times they're covering utilities, janitorial,
31:40
You typically get restrooms in the common areas or hallways so you can go with less plumbing in your space if you want maybe just one stack restroom, but you can get away with some less square footage, less plumbing, less cost if you want. If you want two restrooms, you can do that, but typically there's common area restrooms. And then you can get a better window line. Usually it's a lower cost as well. again, pros and cons of both, but.
32:07
No, thanks for breaking that down. think that's great. I love that breakdown. Folks, just want you to remember, I mean, ADA years ago, Colin might have a more updated statistic. was, I want to say back in 2016, 15, the ADA said a 30 year patients come from your sign, but
32:32
That's a statistic. It's on average. If you had an extra 45 grand, like Colin said, what could you do with 45 grand? You could do a direct mail campaign. You could do all kinds of cool stuff with that extra 45 grand. And then when you have the patience and you don't need to do marketing, you get to pull that 45 grand back and it goes right back to your pocket. So I think there's a lot of advantages of not going retail.
32:59
But there is a huge asterisk to this. You've got to be willing to market because if you do both, no marketing, because I get a lot of clients that don't do as much marketing if they go retail, the opposite. So you can't choose both. If you go retail, you still need marketing. If you don't do retail, you have to get aggressive with marketing. You can't have it both ways. It's a mentality thing in that scenario.
33:26
Awesome. I want to I want to give it to you, Colin. What What are some of the hottest topics today? We'll finish it with this last question. Kind of the hottest things in read real estate things that you're teaching your teams now. What's being talked about a call, you know, Colin Carr, the school of Colin Carr at your net, your national sales meeting, like, what are we facing? You know, just where do you want to take this last segment here with
33:56
Yeah, let me, let me, I mean, we could we could talk for a couple hours. How much time? Yeah, let me let's do a little speed round. How's that? We'll do a speed round. All right. I'll hit a couple random things. Don't don't not do a project right now because of interest rates. They come back down like look at look at a bell curve for interest rates or bar graph interest rates. Over the last 25 years, they do this. Okay, like we've been here three times. I've been in this market three times for interest rates. I've been doing real estate for 20.
34:25
two or 23 years now. And I saw no one I saw it and started 0708 and I've seen it now. You just you got to keep moving. Okay. Same same thing for you know, construction costs like it is what it is just keep on rolling. Yeah, finance later on down the road but don't not do a project. Yeah. Um, the next thing is you have we talked about you might have to get a little bit more competitive on
34:50
or a little bit more aggressive on square footage, you might deal with a little bit smaller space, but still better to be in business. might, don't have the luxury of doing the same size space, maybe as you could have in 2012 when interest rates were at 3 % and know, landlords were just buying deals. It's not the same market. again, we could do a second office once you have cashflow. There's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely. We're expanding to the space next door, cetera. So that's important. The next thing too is, you know,
35:20
The stock market does affect the economy a little bit, really what affects it so much is it's supply and demand. People will say, Cowan, why is the market so weird right now? And here's just for the people that want to geek out and get it. Here's why it's a tough market right now. So our current president and our last president is not being political. Oh boy. Oh boy. Yeah.
35:41
They both pumped trillions of dollars into the economy, which kept it artificially floating. And so people that wouldn't have had the same amount of money had disposable income or discretionary money. And so they were able to keep spending. And so it just kept things high and then the supply chain got messed up. And so it basically log jammed the supply chain. And so what you have is people just start raising prices on everything. Inflation just soars. And it's not, we're not blaming anyone specifically, but it's just a wacky market.
36:11
But the problem is that that's going on at the same time over the last 10 years. We've had the lowest decade in the last 45 years or 50 years in the last chart that I saw of new development for commercial space proportionate to the growth of population in an area. So what that means is the development's not capped up with the demand or even close in last 10 years.
36:34
of what it did in prior decades. So yeah, I see cranes all over, I get it, but it's still not proportionate to what it was in most markets. So you got a supply and demand issue where they're not building new commercial space fast enough. And at the same level that it needs to be for human. That's a different story. But commercials not been kept up with. So you got a big supply supply issue on commercial. And then you've got
36:59
A lot of money that's been floating around in the economy that was probably artificially inflating it further out inflation, 47.5. And then the couple that you've got a lot of people that have a lot of money that have been just on the sidelines watching and waiting. like people say, what's going on with office space? Yes, office space is struggling right now, but there's more retailers coming to market than I've ever seen in my entire life.
37:25
Every concept you can imagine, every fitness concept, every health and wellness concept. I think there's three dry sauna franchises that have popped up within a one mile radius of my house in the last six months. Dry sauna. Dry sauna, dry sauna fitness, dry sauna this, cold plunge. All these concepts just keep coming to market. so it's just, again, it just keeps bottlenecking the retail inventory. So I could keep going, but basically, mean, there's just...
37:52
people say, you know, what's it going to take to get a break in the commercial market? The commercial market always time. Yeah, time. Exactly. The commercial market trails the residential market by a solid like one to three years. So if the residential market falls off a cliff, it'll be a solid year, two or three years for the commercial market feels it typically. But I don't I don't see I don't see a big break coming unless we hit something like like
38:19
another pandemic or a world war or complete stock market collapse. So it takes something pretty crazy to shake this thing up. And right now it's possible that this is the new norm and we have to live here for the next 10 years or indefinitely, or it's possible that the economy falls off a cliff. But I don't know how to predict that. Folks, folks, bottom line, control what you can control. That's it. I mean, if you can't control something, you can't just sit there and worry about it. If you want into ownership.
38:48
You can get smart people like Colin and folks at Next Level to help you make that jump, that leap. And there's a way to do it. And I think all of those things might mean go smaller space. That's okay, by the way. Being more conservative and a wacky market isn't a bad idea. So a lot of things here. Folks, this is the man running car healthcare. He's a smart dude. You just heard it. This is the man that's training all of his folks down to your local market.
39:18
Car's a great firm. We're gonna put down below once this gets published some information on how to get connected with someone in your market to start having discussion. look below in the description. Dude, thanks so much for your time. I know you're busy and thanks for making it work. And hopefully we moved the needle with our listeners today. Yeah, it's been fun. My pleasure having me. All right, brother. Talk to you soon.