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Campus Conversations is a student podcast brought to you by UCL students and the Student Success Office. We're back for Season 2 — bigger, bolder, and with even more honest conversations about student life at UCL! Hosted by students, for students, this podcast dives into the topics that actually matter to students, from politics and careers to friendships, finances, and everything in between. This season, the conversations go deeper, the debates get bigger, and we’re bringing in more student voices, opinions, and real experiences from across our university. Whether we’re discussing the pressure to succeed, navigating life in London, or the big issues shaping our generation, Campus Conversations is all about sharing perspectives, learning from each other, and reminding you that no one has university life completely figured out. Expect thoughtful discussions, relatable moments, a few disagreements, and a lot of laughs along the way!
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:12:23
Speaker 2
Welcome to Campus Conversations. Brought to you by UCL Student Success Team, your go to podcast for all things about student life on University College London. We're back for season two and today we'll be talking about modern society and culture change. I'm a man and I'm a fourth year medic.
00:00:13:00 - 00:00:13:07
Speaker 4
I'm a
00:00:13:07 - 00:00:15:00
Speaker 3
Bach and I'm a second year law student.
00:00:15:02 - 00:00:20:01
Speaker 4
I'm Kat and I'm a first year geography student.
00:00:20:03 - 00:00:36:04
Speaker 2
So here's our new segment. The UK Advertising Standards Authority has issued a warning to advertisers to avoid using images that promote unhealthy, unhealthily thin models, calling some current campaign images irresponsible. A recent M&S advert was banned by them because it featured a model with a dangerously slim
00:00:36:05 - 00:00:36:21
Speaker 2
physique,
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Speaker 2
while a Vogue report noted that 97% of clockwork models were between
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Speaker 2
UK sizes four and eight. Question. How do you feel about beauty standards in the UK?
00:00:45:08 - 00:00:49:01
Speaker 2
Has it become more inclusive of difference or reductive to a single type?
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Speaker 4
I feel like on one hand there is more being done. For example, you see Victoria's Secret's, they're doing more runway models with disabilities, different races, different sizes. I think I'd like Fenty Beauty release out more different shades. Different hair textures are being shown on TV.
00:01:09:08 - 00:01:13:19
Speaker 4
Cool? Sure. Yes. Fine. But
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Speaker 4
I then also think that we're constantly replacing one ideal with another.
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Speaker 4
Ideal, like constantly. So then this idea of like what's perfect and perfection is like
00:01:23:20 - 00:01:41:21
Speaker 4
is constantly changing as well. Although like the definition of perfect itself is kind of expanding, but we're never going to reach the state of like, perfect because we're constantly going from, oh, maybe perfect is being white blond in a size zero to now. Perfect is being hourglass slim, thick X, Y, and Z, and then next year it's going to be this.
00:01:41:21 - 00:01:47:06
Speaker 4
And you're constantly trying to keep up with these trends. And then it's like we've what? So what actually is perfect
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Speaker 4
I feel like that's constantly changing. So therefore
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Speaker 4
I think that no. Is there a beauty standard. What is the beauty standard. Is it just like based on what this year's beauty standard was next year's going to be? So I think that's the way that I interpreted it.
00:02:01:11 - 00:02:17:09
Speaker 2
I feel like for me it's like a tricky thing to think about because I mean a lot of the time I'm using ad blockers, I'm not seeing any adverts like that. And even then I'm a male so I'm not being targeted adverts, I usually feature p standards and things like that, although it's very subconscious. Do I think so?
00:02:17:09 - 00:02:21:22
Speaker 2
I'm probably seeing them without realizing, like even when you're shopping online, clothes, it's all buy. It's all modeled
00:02:22:01 - 00:02:33:01
Speaker 2
by usually like really attractive models. So that's kind of where it fits in. I think the the change I was seeing now is that like at least for me, a lot of my advertising comes from like
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Speaker 2
sponsorships and things I'm actively choosing to watch.
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Speaker 2
I feel like because of that, it's a role model that I've already chosen. So although it's another beauty standards abuse I'm about, I've actively like, oh, I think this is interesting. I want to engage with that content, which is kind of maybe a benefit of the internet age. I don't know if you agree that that's a thing that happens.
00:02:52:02 - 00:03:07:08
Speaker 3
hasn't heard about the term looks magazine? Yes. Okay. I think that's an interesting angle to this conversation. So I think the question focuses in a lot on like women. Right. Like and I feel like the beast under for women has been a thing that women like has been a thing like it's cemented.
00:03:07:14 - 00:03:11:14
Speaker 3
But I would say, I think with social media lately, we're seeing a rise now
00:03:11:16 - 00:03:25:20
Speaker 3
in a new form of beauty standard. And I think it's because for the first time in a long time, what first time really ever. I think, for males as well, being good looking is now also a social currency. And
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Speaker 3
I think that goes hand-in-hand with beauty standards in general.
00:03:29:00 - 00:03:45:24
Speaker 3
You're trying to make you don't have the best currency. And I think because I think with social media now, you want to post the best looking photo of yourself, the next person was the person. Even better for it. That way you get that virality. So I think because now we have those quick forms of content, when it's content, content, content, who can do the next shocking thing.
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Speaker 3
So if someone's a really, really like lean, for instance, the next
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Speaker 3
person will want to be even leaner because their foot will go more viral. So I think when we look at like the commodification of looks via the term looks, maxing, that's what people are trying to do. People are constantly trying to max, what can I do better?
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Speaker 3
What can I do next? So I think that is where
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Speaker 3
the problematic nature of it, I don't think because the whole value of looks essentially a scarcity has to be rich to be striking. And that can I think because now we're seeing so many faces on a daily basis, it's like to get that striking, to get that redness, you have to go to further further extremes.
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Speaker 3
And I think advertising only reflects that.
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Speaker 2
this Advertising Standards Authority, they don't really have any clear on that anymore. Like it's a whole new like playground where no one's really moderating who's looks like saying or doing any of that so they can like keep on going further and further and further and then what's going to be the consequence of that?
00:04:37:01 - 00:04:42:07
Speaker 2
Who's in charge of that? Because like who and you might not know your law student who's in charge of that.
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Speaker 3
Like but I button that's what it is with TikTok. Now obviously there's regulations for how you post adverts on TikTok. But even though it's a relatively new market and where before it was companies work of advertising companies, now it's companies working with individuals in that room. So I think there hasn't been a proper sort of
00:04:58:19 - 00:05:07:13
Speaker 3
framework to properly make sure that advertisers that like just picking up their phone or being healthy or understand the implications of what they put out there, how that's affecting
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Speaker 3
youth, adults, how that's affecting current trends.
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Speaker 3
So I think for the first time in a long time, we have celebrities with the same amount of celebrity power, but without the sort of team behind them that make sure that that image is a safe image to put out. So I think that's probably one of the issues.
00:05:22:17 - 00:05:23:17
Speaker 1
Yeah.
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Speaker 4
I think it's this idea and feeling of constant comparison as much as you might think. And sure, this might be true for some people might not. It's like as much as you think, oh, yeah, I'm really confident in how I look, or I'm really happy about how I look in the room. Okay, cool. Fine.
00:05:41:19 - 00:05:52:11
Speaker 4
It's like you still find yourself comparing yourself to people around you, people on social media, or people who maybe have more money, who is this constant comparison that you're never going to get out of?
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Speaker 4
It's like, oh, but do I look
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Speaker 4
good enough? Or do I look good enough standing next to this person? Or if I post this, is it good enough compared to this person? Or and it's like you feel like you're never going to escape that. So I think that's a very real thing that people experience. And people feel that people might not be open to, like actually sharing.
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Speaker 4
Like, you know, yeah, I don't think I look good enough compared to this person. Whereas really in reality that person is thinking the exact same thing. So you're thinking, oh, I don't think I look good, like compared
00:06:15:19 - 00:06:23:06
Speaker 4
to this person, this person thinking, I don't look good compared to that person. So I think that makes it so much more difficult because you don't know what the other person's feeling was.
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Speaker 4
It's making you feel like the worst feeling.
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Speaker 3
a couple months ago, I was looking through my mum's old photos and like, she was like, she took a lot of words as well, but it's like I can look back on photos of her from her 20s
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Speaker 3
now be like, oh man, when did this happen?
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Speaker 3
And I find that a lot of people are really reluctant to take photos of themselves because of a fear of how they look or how they looked in that for I look bad, but I think a lot of people forget that.
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Speaker 3
Beyond how you look in a photo, it's capturing the memory as well, because in ten years time, you're not going to look back and think, oh, I looked a little bit strange.
00:06:52:21 - 00:07:07:05
Speaker 3
And I thought, you're just going to look back on the memories. So I think there's a reluctance now to actually, you know, capture your memories because you're so concerned and how you look. And I think a lot of people are going to look back on a period of their life and wonder, why do I have no memory of this at all?
00:07:07:07 - 00:07:19:19
Speaker 3
But it's because you were so concerned of how you look. Then you kind of preferred how preferred, not capturing on what you looked in the moment. But now you feel like you don't have memory. You don't have physical proof of that memory anymore. So I think that's why I've been trying to be really intentional
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Speaker 3
about capturing memories, because 20 years from now I'll be like, oh, what did I do in university?
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Speaker 3
What was I doing on this day? And I'd like to have, you know, evidence of that to be able to that reminisce. And I think if I'm always worried about how I look or I don't know the way this look, I don't mean that I don't like the way that looks, it like prevents me from having that blessing in the future.
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Speaker 2
The
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Speaker 2
death of the photo album is such a tragic part of our generation. Like I remember as a kid, like looking through my home and being like, oh, that was me when I was two. That was me when I was there. You know? That's it. There's nothing beyond that point. It's very sad.
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Speaker 2
according
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Speaker 2
to honest It, I
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Speaker 2
less than half of adults in England and Wales are married or in civil partnerships in 2024. Meanwhile, quite a bit cohabitating couple households are on the rise and more people are living alone.
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Speaker 2
Furthermore, the numbers of people in nontraditional
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Speaker 2
non-monogamous relationships have significantly increased. So are traditional family values still valuable or the incompatible with modern life?
00:08:10:23 - 00:08:12:05
Speaker 2
Do you know what one just means?
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Speaker 1
Office for National
00:08:13:10 - 00:08:15:17
Speaker 1
Oh yeah, that one. You're right, you're right.
00:08:15:17 - 00:08:16:01
Speaker 4
I think.
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Speaker 3
so.
00:08:18:04 - 00:08:36:15
Speaker 3
my view, I think when people say traditional family values, oftentimes they're just that they're talking about, like the past essentially that they want sort of this man goes to work, provides for his family, woman stays at home, looks after the children. They've got very sort of, I guess in England would be like a very Christian
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Speaker 3
image of what husband and wife should be like and what the home should look like.
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Speaker 3
So, yeah, I think it's just like that nuclear parent system very, very traditional in that sense.
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Speaker 3
I think
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Speaker 4
values such that instill good characteristics in you and to make sure that you navigate the world as a better person? I think those are important. And I feel like some of those, most of those do come from your upbringing and your surroundings. So I think instilling in yourself respect for everyone, instilling in yourself humility and those characteristics, I feel like
00:09:09:18 - 00:09:11:17
Speaker 4
those, yes, those are important.
00:09:11:17 - 00:09:22:00
Speaker 4
But then when you take concepts and structural factors like nuclear households or those gender roles, those I think are outdated in modern times.
00:09:22:02 - 00:09:36:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, I agree, I think the point, the fact of yeah, the way you're saying how the they make you like care for each other and they make you like feel a responsibility over the person you choose to love. Like that's an important thing to have and like modeled in your past is a good way of doing it. But then when it forces you
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Speaker 2
to be like, oh, once you got married, you know, going to the job, that's that's probably crossing the line at that point, I think.
00:09:41:13 - 00:09:45:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. Do you think they're incompatible with modern life?
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Speaker 3
I do want to add one more caveat. Yeah. I think oftentimes, one of the issues I think we fall into when we talk about traditional values, like, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think everyone should be able to live their life with how they want to live or find a partner who, you know, who also shares the same views.
00:09:59:05 - 00:10:03:18
Speaker 3
I think that's normal, but I think what tends to happen is a bit of a glamorization
00:10:03:20 - 00:10:16:12
Speaker 3
in the sense that a lot of people focus on the top 1% of traditional families back then to grunted something like women, like poor women, for instance, have always worked alongside her husband to try and gain some sort of income.
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Speaker 3
And I think a lot in a lot of, cultures as well.
00:10:19:09 - 00:10:38:04
Speaker 3
It's not unheard of. That woman, oh, let poor woman would have worked alongside alongside their husband. So often times when people want a traditional family, also they forget in that element that they're not. They're going to be as they are now. So if you're like, you're not rich, if you're not the top 1% now, like chasing after family values isn't going to make you the top 1% now ever.
00:10:38:06 - 00:10:50:23
Speaker 3
So I think that's one small thing. But I think in a modern society, family that traditional family values can't exist. I genuinely don't think there's anything inherently wrong with them, because I think there are differences between the sexes that
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Speaker 3
naturally will occur, just especially if a woman wants to have children. You know, there's differences in like maternity and things like that.
00:10:57:10 - 00:11:11:03
Speaker 3
So I think there are differences between but I don't think it should be imposed on anyone to live a life in a certain way. I think everyone should have the right to determine how they want to live their life, how they want to raise their children, as long as it's not harming anyone.
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Speaker 4
I think one point that comes about is you mentioned maternity, for example. I think now when we take a lot of people think that men should have much longer paternity leave and men's paternity leave is very short. People are like, oh, but as a father, I want to spend as much time with my newborn child as well. So if we take it back to that historical element of where men had to provide that opportunity for them to stay at home wouldn't have been
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Speaker 4
as accessible.
00:11:34:21 - 00:11:46:02
Speaker 4
So I feel like as times progress, we do kind of have to progress these family values just as a natural course of things are changing and we can accept that things are changing. We don't need to be stuck in such a rigid
00:11:46:02 - 00:11:56:06
Speaker 4
structure. So I think in that sense there will be some changes that people, if they want, can be willing to accept as yet this is right and this can be the new norm for you as a.
00:11:56:06 - 00:12:07:12
Speaker 4
So it doesn't have to be a societal thing with like, oh, knowing that, yeah, I can take that personally five if I want to. And if I feel like that's how I want to live now, my family thing like, that's okay.
00:12:07:14 - 00:12:25:02
Speaker 2
I guess the way the incompatible with modern life would be, in a sense. Like living a good life is kind of incompatible with modern life, where you can't get a job as easily right now. You have to pay more rent. Right now you have to pay more for bills. I think that's why people aren't like it's saying here that people aren't marrying as often, but they're still living together as couples.
00:12:25:04 - 00:12:28:07
Speaker 2
I it just comes down to money more than anything else, in my opinion. Like a
00:12:28:07 - 00:12:37:20
Speaker 2
marriage, a wedding seems expensive. I don't know if it. I think people are prioritizing like the whole I need to get married and do that before I live together kind of thing.
00:12:37:22 - 00:12:55:02
Speaker 2
On not not then let's go over to campus confession. So this comes from a real student, Usman, the expectation from my family and culture is to find a job after graduation, find a wife, have some babies, and take care of the household. But how, capitalized? How, average graduate salary is just over 30 K in London.
00:12:55:02 - 00:13:04:14
Speaker 2
The dating scene is a mess, and mortgage deposits are five times the average salary. I don't mean to be negative, but it does feel kind of hopeless. Anyone feeling the same? Are you feeling more hopeful?
00:13:04:16 - 00:13:22:00
Speaker 3
I'm. I'm. I live my life as an optimist, so I just I just don't believe in speaking like a dread over my life like that. But, yeah, that's my take. Like, I think if this person is worried, they should just let me and my friends, I have a saying. We always say just pack it in, like, as in, like sometimes that what is worrying and dread?
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Speaker 3
I feel like it's not going to help his
00:13:24:16 - 00:13:35:24
Speaker 3
outlook if this is really what he if he wants to know if you know he if he knows he wants to have kids, get married, then I think he just kind of has to hustle harder. If that's an ambition that he he wants to have back.
00:13:36:01 - 00:13:52:02
Speaker 4
I think that's so hard because I feel like, first of all, this overthinking thing of like, as much as we don't want to think five years down the line is a very real thought of like, oh, wait, but how am I going to get a job? And how am I going to have a family and kids? And that's like a very real thing for like some people that's constantly on their minds.
00:13:52:04 - 00:13:54:00
Speaker 4
And I feel like everyone's on their own path and
00:13:54:04 - 00:14:04:04
Speaker 4
journey in life and like, you're at your own pace and your own speed and you have a different destination to like me, you and you. So I think it's okay not to know, like where exactly on that
00:14:04:07 - 00:14:10:02
Speaker 4
path you are. And I feel like that's okay. I feel like sometimes it is okay to recognize.
00:14:10:02 - 00:14:20:23
Speaker 4
You know what? I don't know what I'm doing with my life, and, like, that's actually okay. And being able to admit, yeah, I'm struggling. I don't know where I'm going to be exactly in five years time. Like, that's okay to be in that position.
00:14:21:04 - 00:14:35:23
Speaker 2
I think as men where you seem to come from is like family and cultural pressure too, which is a tricky one to manage. Like I've never like, even though I've been threatened by those ideas from like a young age. I'm never like, really subscribe to that. I don't care about the whole you have to do this. You have to like, do that at that point.
00:14:36:03 - 00:14:43:05
Speaker 2
But I do get that. It's a very it's a big thing that pushes people to like panic and do make bad decisions, probably.
00:14:43:07 - 00:14:43:08
Speaker 4
But
00:14:43:10 - 00:14:58:08
Speaker 3
I think this is the thing about life. As much as family will have an influence, like you're the only person that's going to suffer yourself. So if you make a bad decision because your family pressured you into it, you're the only one that's going to have to bear the brunt of it. So I think it's about making logical decisions.
00:14:58:08 - 00:15:04:21
Speaker 3
If you know, you know you can't afford the certain thing, you're not in a position to get married and have kids, don't get married and have kids. Even if your family
00:15:04:24 - 00:15:11:03
Speaker 3
feels like that's the best thing for you, because only you know what it is like to where you're in. She's like, at the end of the day, you're going to suffer from it.
00:15:11:03 - 00:15:16:22
Speaker 3
So I think it's about being a little bit selfish sometimes and making the best decision for you in that moment.
00:15:16:24 - 00:15:37:01
Speaker 4
I agree, I feel like rushing into something just out of pressure is so bad for you and eventually everyone to be surrounded by you, whether that be your future wife, whether that be eventually your family. And most importantly yourself. I feel like rushing into something just because you're pressured to do feel like you have this burden that you have to lift off, I think is quite damaging.
00:15:37:04 - 00:15:42:06
Speaker 2
Why do you think people struggle so much to detach from this family expectations?
00:15:42:08 - 00:15:59:08
Speaker 4
Because I feel like you have this idea that family is everything like that is you're all like you've grown up with your family. Like that has been your support system. That's been your base. Everything they've taught you, you feel like, yeah, that's come from them. So if feel like you trying to detach the way that maybe you feel like your family has
00:15:59:08 - 00:16:07:06
Speaker 4
lived all this time and it's like, how do I say like, yes, it's okay to step away from what you think it's right, because I now think that this is right.
00:16:07:08 - 00:16:09:08
Speaker 4
I feel like people are so strongly attached to not
00:16:09:08 - 00:16:24:00
Speaker 4
wanting to disappoint their family. I think that's such a big thing to being like, I don't think this will like, okay, it might disappoint them in terms of like, yeah, it's not agreeing with what they agree with, but the end result is I'm going to be happy and I'm going to have success defined in my own terms.
00:16:24:02 - 00:16:25:23
Speaker 4
I think that's something.
00:16:26:00 - 00:16:26:16
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:16:26:18 - 00:16:40:22
Speaker 2
So I guess, and the other advice for having that probably just be like, take a breather. What is that? What was this saying? Pack it in. Yeah. Fuck it and it's okay. You don't need to get married right now. You don't need to think. You can think about the job, but you don't have to worry about the mortgage when you don't have the job.
00:16:40:22 - 00:16:44:15
Speaker 2
When you do have the house, you have the spouse one thing at a time. Like in.
00:16:44:21 - 00:16:46:19
Speaker 3
No one's chasing you like you have to be. Okay.
00:16:46:22 - 00:17:03:09
Speaker 2
Thank you for tuning in to this conversations. We hope you had much as much from listening as we did chatting. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to like and subscribe on our various podcast streaming platforms. Link in the bio. We'll be back again with more stories, ideas and the bits from across UCL exploring the people and perspectives shaping our university and world.
00:17:03:11 - 00:17:05:06
Speaker 2
Until next time on campus conversations.