Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to The Pilot Project Podcast, your premier source for stories and insights from pilots in the RCAF and mission aviation - brought to you by Skies Magazine! Whether you're an aspiring aviator, navigating flight training, or simply fascinated by the world of military and mission aviation, this podcast is your guide. We sit down with pilots and aviation professionals to hear their thrilling experiences, lessons learned, and expert advice on resilience, training, and the skills needed to succeed in this exciting field. Strap in - we’re ready for departure!
New here? Start with "Logbook: First 100 Part 1: The Climb".
Alright. We're ready for departure here at The Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison, and here with me today to talk about flying fighters, combat operations, and training the next generation of military pilots is lieutenant colonel Andrew Hasnofaith, the current commander of the four hundred sixty ninth flying training squadron at Shepherd Air Force Base in Texas. Andrew, I'm excited to have you here today. We've been chatting for a little while, and this one's been in the hopper for a bit.
Bryan:So thank you so much for being here today, and this is gonna be cool.
Andrew:Yeah. Thanks for having me, Brian. Appreciate it.
Bryan:So in this first part of the conversation, we're going to focus on Andrew's early journey from growing up in Saskatchewan and getting through pilot training to flying the CF 18, deploying to Libya, and supporting operations in Iraq. But before we get to any of that, let's go through Andrew's bio. So let's get started with talking about your earlier life and kind of what led you into aviation with the RCAF. Growing up in Weyburn, Saskatchewan, what first got you interested in flying jets?
Andrew:Yes. I was born in Southern Saskatchewan, Weyburn, down by Moose Jaw there, but at around the age of, one, I actually moved to Northern Saskatchewan, Saint Walburg, Saskatchewan, a little town of 800. It's about an hour and a half from Cold Lake. And, you know, interestingly enough, growing up in Northern Saskatchewan, you know, I'd go out and even elementary school, I'd be out on on the playground, and jets. We were in the...
Andrew:We still are. St. Walburg was in the tactical low flying area for Cold Lake. Oh, okay. And and jets would come over during Maple Flag or otherwise, come over at what I now know is 250, 300 feet and just look like they're having one heck of a time.
Andrew:And, you know, I'd be on the playground and these jets would zip on by and then I just kinda went on with my day. And even in, you know, grade four or five, I just like... That looks just like so exciting and, such a really great occupation. And so I was really fortunate to be exposed to f eighteens, you know, in the late eighties, and then we're still flying the same aircraft. But, you know, they come over and I just like...
Andrew:That's all I wanted to do was fly that thing. And it was kind of as easy as that. And it kinda got me at the age 12. I got going into army cadets, you know, in Northern Saskatchewan, a town called, Turtleford. We'd drive up there, go to army cadets for a while, then, I switched over to air cadets in Lloydminster.
Andrew:And then it went from there and eventually, I was an air cadet at an air show in, Lloydminster and another F 18 came over and that was kind of it. I said, well, I'm gonna dedicate my life to to to doing this for a career. So I, you know, from there graduated high school with the best marks I could, you know, applied to the military and just went on with it.
Bryan:So did you end up getting, like, your pilot's license or anything with air cadets? Or...
Andrew:Yeah. I got my glider's license at Gimli, Manitoba. Nice. And prior to that, I I did some courses in Penhold, air studies. And, I wasn't kind of in air cadets long enough to do powered license.
Andrew:That was probably gonna be the next year. But I went in to join the military. After joining the military, I had the military pay for my civilian powered license through one of their training programs. So Awesome. Yeah.
Andrew:That was that was great. I did that before my flying training, so that was really handy.
Bryan:Sweet. Another thing that you mentioned is that you spent a lot of your early years playing hockey. What if anything carried over from the rink into the cockpit? Because I find that there's often a lot of parallels between sports and flying. And we even just did a whole series on mental performance coaching with those parallels.
Bryan:So did anything carry over for you?
Andrew:Yeah. I think a whole bunch carried over and I don't think I was really aware of that. You know, playing hockey as a kid, I don't know... I didn't know where I was going go from that. But I think if you look at the parallels, you know, you're you're training for something, you know, as I was playing hockey, triple A levels.
Andrew:So we were on the ice six times a week training and perfecting aircraft. There's a teamwork that goes beyond that, the preparation, you know, attention to detail, dedication, constant improvement, you know, you're just refining your craft. And I think this is this is flying training, especially in professional military aviation is, you know, the the margins are so close, so you're constantly practicing and preparing. I think it's very strikingly similar to hockey. There's also the fitness part of it and I think flying fighters, there's a there's a fitness portion as well.
Andrew:But but, yeah, I see a lot of parallels from hockey to line fighters.
Bryan:For sure. Did did you play hockey at all with the military?
Andrew:I did play, regional hockey and then, you know, nationals and regional hockey several times throughout my career. Never did end up winning nationals, got close, once, early on in my career, but never ended up doing that. Now I'm an old timer's, kind of third line winger on old... So I've I've fell a long ways, down there. So just do it for fun now.
Andrew:But, yeah, I still play... Actually, last year, I played in the, the old timers in the military and it was just a ton of fun.
Bryan:That's awesome. Yeah. It's funny because a lot of times I talk to people who... Like, sports is part of why they even got into the military because they found out like, wait, I can play hockey as part of my job? Like, I mean, I even...
Bryan:As a kid, I played for like one year, hated it, and never played again. But then I actually learned to play at Moose Jaw and played for years after that. Like, it's a big part of the culture in the military.
Andrew:Yeah. And interestingly enough, my niece is an air traffic controller in Comox.
Bryan:Big part
Andrew:of the reason she joined the military was to play volleyball at RMC and is now playing volleyball at a citizen level. So, yeah, she's a professional athlete kind of. So Yeah. That's cool. Really, really cool.
Bryan:Yeah. So you ended up joining The CAF in 2001. We've kind of already talked about, you know, my original question I wanted to ask was, you know, what made the military aviation path something you wanted to commit to in terms of, you know, was the fighter thing always the dream? But did you ever consider going civilian or was it like military all the way for you?
Andrew:Well, the only time I can... Considered civilian was at the recruiting center, when they asked me to put my three choices. I put pilot, pilot, pilot. And then and then the recruiter said, well, you have to choose, you know, something else for option two or option three. And then at that point, was like, well, I guess I'll just be a pilot in the civvy side if you're not gonna have me in the military.
Andrew:And so I ended up entering the military without choosing anything other than pilot. And hopefully no recruiting officers listening and knows the trick now. Not really, to be honest. Like, it was pretty simple for me. I saw F eighteen's flyover.
Andrew:I wanted to fly that. I was only gonna fly that. If I didn't do that, I probably would have been an engineer or something like an oil engineer Mhmm. Or something differently. So so not really.
Andrew:I never really... Only recently do I have any interest in civilian flying, but I've never really had any interest in it.
Bryan:Yeah. I mean, it's pretty different. Right? Like, it kind of depends on what appeals to you and what your temperament is. Like, it's funny.
Bryan:You'll talk to some military pilots and they'll be like, you know, this is basically my training route to the airlines one day or at least like that's my retirement plan or whatever. And you'll talk to a lot of guys and I find it's often fighters and helicopter pilots who are like, no, never. Like, doesn't appeal to me.
Andrew:Yeah. And I think... Kind of feel I feel like I actually wish I could transition to civilian flying. I wish that would be more appealing because it would kinda make it a bit easier now. You know, like
Bryan:For sure.
Andrew:Whenever the... Whenever the end of the military comes, it'll be easier to transition to something, but I I just... I've never really had that interest. To your point. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. Now you mentioned one of your backup careers would have potentially been, in petroleum engineering, which is what you studied at the University of Alberta. What made you go into that field, and, what was it like working through a degree and knowing that you still had that flight training ahead of you? Were you doing your civilian flight training at the same time?
Andrew:So I did my civilian train... Flight training, you know, in between one of the summers, yeah, of Okay. University. But before joining the military, I worked in the oil and gas field in Northern Saskatchewan. My first job was like spraying down, pump trucks, spraying the diesel off of trucks and stuff like that.
Andrew:Eventually, worked servicing wells. And, in university, I got into working, like, on the rigs, like drilling wells. But I kinda knew that stuff from Northern Saskatchewan. I knew, you know, oil and gas was the economy and it was part of my upbringing, so it seemed like a fit. So when I went to university, it was pretty much like that simple.
Andrew:Like, I didn't really wanna be there for the schooling. I wanted to fly f 18, needed, but I had to be there for four years anyways. So, I enjoyed math more than English, and I knew about oil and gas. So that was kind of... It's easy.
Andrew:I know it's... This sounds very simple. Like, I wanna fly fighters because it looks good. And I always studied petroleum engineering because it was what I knew, but really really all I wanted to do was fly fly the f 18. So I was like, well, I think petroleum engineering is probably gonna be the most suitable and easiest way to spend four years while waiting for flying.
Bryan:Yeah. I get that too though, because really since like a a quite a young age, all I wanted to do was be a pilot. And, you I know, went through air cadets. I did the collider power. I instructed for a summer.
Bryan:And then when it came to applying to university, I just picked the degree, the commercial aviation management degree at Western. Not because I had any interest in the class studies, which my marks showed in the end, but because I wanted to get a... I wanted to fly in that. And by doing that, I could get a commercial multi IFR license and kind of keep flying while I was studying and and and at the time also, ROTP paid for that and the flying program, which I don't think they do anymore. But I totally get it.
Bryan:Like, sometimes that's just your focus and you're like, okay, how do we get there? What's the what's the most suitable path? And it's just really about that.
Andrew:Yeah. And university kind of seemed like a bit of... Like, now I'm so grateful for doing it. But at the time, it kind of just seemed like a bit of a speed bump or a roadblock. At the time, I was, you know, I I trained with Australians in Moose Jaw for a bit when I was there and they got to go directly from high school to F 18 and I was kind of jealous of them.
Andrew:Yeah. But it's it's done now.
Bryan:Yeah. I agree. I... You know, it's funny. I I feel I felt the exact same way.
Bryan:Like, in some ways, was like, man, this is just a waiting period basically before I can start doing what I wanna do. But I think it was probably good for me to be those four years older and have a little bit of time on my own in the... I I guess I won't call it the real world as a student, but, like, not living with my parents basically before I went out to pilot training.
Andrew:Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.
Bryan:So before we get too far into your career, how did you get the call sign Hasno?
Andrew:Yeah. Interesting. So I got the call sign Hasno from four ten Squadron. Just when you do your solo party, If you hadn't, you know, screwed up large enough that somebody caught you doing something really stupid, then they'll just play on your last name. So my last name is Faith, so it's has no faith, and that's kinda stuck.
Andrew:And then now I've went to combat in Libya. So once you go to combat with your call sign, it stays forever is is the tradition behind it. But interestingly, before four ten squadron, when I arrived there, going all through 04/19 as a student, I was called Pickles at the time. And the the story behind Pickles was actually up until university, like, I didn't know that pickle... This is funny, but I didn't know that pickles came from cucumbers.
Andrew:Like, I thought there was... I thought they were my own thing until, my girlfriend at that... Which is now my wife of more than twenty years now, told me like, this is ridiculous. You know, that pickles are pickled cucumbers. And so that just became, like, here I was, 20 years old.
Andrew:I didn't know that, but, that just became my call sign. And then when I went to Forten, they changed it from pickles to Hasno. And then I took that to war, but interestingly, when I was, flying combat in Libya, I almost got the call sign Hollywood, but it was too late because I had already flown combat operations. But, we were staying in in in Italy, in Trepenny, and it was beautiful sunshine, Sicily. So, you know, before flying, I would fly often at nights, but throughout the day, would go suntan, out, like, on our...
Andrew:In our hotel compound there, and I would suntan, underneath our our commanding officer's window. He was up in a balcony. So when he opened up his balcony, there would be me suntanning. And so he wanted to give me the call sign, Hollywood, just because it was so ridiculous, but I never stuck. So here I am, twenty five years of service, and it's it's Hasno.
Andrew:So
Bryan:It's funny. I didn't... I I was like, Hasno? Like, what would that mean? And then finally, as I was writing this outline and saying Andrew has no faith, I was like, oh, it's it's definitely gotta be a play on, like, has no faith.
Bryan:Yep. Let's get into your pilot training. You started flight training after university other than your civilian stuff that you'd done in between, but you earned your wings in 2008. What do you remember most about arriving in Moose Jaw as a student?
Andrew:Well, prior to Moose Jaw, I was living in Edmonton, I had told the career manager, hey. If you have any spot in Moose Jaw... Because there was a wait at that point in a year or so. I'm like, if you ever have a spot in Moose Jaw, just give me a call and I'll be there in six hours kind thing. Right?
Andrew:Right. So that happened. He had a spot came up and he said, hey, can you be in Moose Jaw? And I said, no bet... No.
Andrew:You betcha. So I put everything that I had in my truck. I left all the the meat that was frozen, the deep freeze. I just carried the deep freeze and put it into the truck. And I'm like, well, it's it's gonna last, you know, it's a six hour drive.
Andrew:So here I was driving to Moosha with my wife, you know, last minute we found out the week or two weeks before we left our house in Edmonton and rented it out. And we... Here we are driving down the road in this truck with this frozen meat in the back that we had to hurry up and get there so we could plug in the freezer again. Like, it was one of those things. And then when we arrived, just north of Moose Jaw, my wife had never been there before, and no kidding, a tumbleweed had blown across...
Andrew:Was blowing across the highway. And, we arrived down at the Bushel Park and, you know, tumbleweeds and stuff like that, and was thinking, holy smokes. My wife was like, this is, you know, a big change from Edmonton. Mhmm. It wasn't that big of a change, you know, for me.
Andrew:I I knew Saskatchewan and grew up there, but it was, yeah, it was it was kind of an interesting memory. And then, of course, we arrived to Moose Jaw and we got the PMQ there and quickly plugged in the deep freeze so that the meat didn't thaw and got set up. And, you know, initially, there was some issues with the heating and cooling in our PMQ. But, you know, that was our kind of first exposure.
Bryan:You guys were married at the time when you came down to Moose Jaw?
Andrew:Yes. Yeah. We had married eight months prior to that.
Bryan:Yeah. I remember my first... Yeah. Like, tumbleweed and stuff. Like, Moose Jaw was a different place back then.
Bryan:I don't know if... You've probably been back there at some point since then, but, like, it's come a long way in the last ten, fifteen years. But back in that time, like, I got there in 2010, which is a couple years after you would have been been there. But it was, you know, there wasn't much there. And yeah, tumbleweeds, prairie dogs, all that stuff, like coming from Ontario, that was all new for sure.
Bryan:It's a it's a bit of a culture shock almost.
Andrew:Yeah. I was posted back there from 2016 to 2019 and and the new arena downtown and Starbucks and after we left, they got a Tesla charging station and...
Bryan:Yeah. There's like a brown social house and like all these new restaurants.
Andrew:Seems seems pretty bougie now. But Yeah. Back in back in 2006, it was a little bit rougher with the old Crush Can hockey rink and all that. Yeah.
Bryan:So one thing that I found when I got to Moose Jaw was, like, it was a super fighter kind of mentality there. How did you like that when you showed up? Like, was it... Were you just, like, super into that?
Andrew:Yeah. And I think, you know, looking thinking back to Moose Jaw to prepare for this interview, like, I kinda feel now that I was overconfident. And I think of, like, students that I've instructed in the past. I think I would be an overconfident student because arriving in Moose Jaw, like, I was gonna fly fighters. That was just an automatic.
Andrew:There was nothing else Right. Out there. Was just gonna be guaranteed. Maybe that was part of my success that it was just like the confidence kind of, this contagious a bit. But, yeah, I I loved it.
Andrew:I I loved that it was fighter centric and it just fit right into the mold. I mean, now now that I've been in the military twenty five years and I've seen see the value in in in all the other air platforms and what they bring to the mission, like, my opinion has has changed, but, I think I was a bit naive back in 2006 and... Yeah, it just fit right into it.
Bryan:I think we all we all are pretty naive arriving at mid jah, right? You have a lot of preconceived notions and you're pretty,
Andrew:you know, young and gung ho and Yeah. Kinda, you know, young and dumb and you
Bryan:have your your ideas of how it works and what's what's the best and all that kind of stuff and.
Andrew:Yeah. And also, I... Very impressionable, obviously, at that point, like students are now. Right? I just was, you know, trying to do everything to be successful and just really fascinated with the culture, the military flying training, we had, you know, the solo parties and all that stuff.
Andrew:It was just so much fun.
Bryan:Yeah. It's a whole new world, right? Like you've been in the military, you've done your basic training, whatever. And then you get to Moose Jaw. It's really almost like your baptism of becoming a...
Bryan:Like that's the pilot world, right? Like that's the world you haven't necessarily seen that much of yet.
Andrew:Yeah. It was so different, so fascinating, and I loved it. I really felt both... Like I belonged to the RCF at that point.
Bryan:Like, it
Andrew:was kind of like introduction to the family. After being in university for four years, like, was like, okay, now I'm a military pilot in training. I'm I'm in this organization. I report to work every day. We have all these fun traditions.
Andrew:The mess is incredible. Mhmm. I I... Those couple years were some of my favorite in my life for sure.
Bryan:Yeah. Me too. For sure. And, man, yeah, so much of what you're saying rings true. Like, that feeling of belonging to the organization, like those nights at the mess, mess dinners, like, seeing all those traditions and no...
Bryan:You know, hearing people talk about the good stuff and the hard stuff and realizing, like, that's gonna be your life. It's it's a pretty neat feeling.
Andrew:Yeah. And I think that's so important to keep that stuff going, to feel belonging, something bigger than you. I think that's the advantage of the RCF that we have over civilian is that you are part of something bigger than you that spans decades and you're part of a family. And I think that was just... I just remember feeling so belonging at that point.
Bryan:Mhmm. Well, I think it's essential because otherwise, these missions, they can be really tough to take on in in a bunch of different ways. And if you don't have that sense of belonging and that sense of purpose, then I think it'd be a lot harder to push people to actually go out and do what we do.
Andrew:Yeah. For sure.
Bryan:Yep. So what did you find was the hardest part of learning to fly military aircraft? Because you had done some civilian training, you got your private license. What was, like, the biggest change or the biggest challenge?
Andrew:I remember flying, the Harbor two in Moose Jaw and just having to memorize all the pre start checks and, post landing checks and memorize the red pages. And I remember that being like a lot of volume just to try and memorize all that stuff. Of course, you know, the Hawk is more and then the f 18 is more, but at that point, you know, my bandwidth of learning to fly and then just memorize all these checks, I remember that, you know, just memorizing everything being a lot. That was one thing that sticks in. And then another thing when I got to the second half, by that time it was phase two bravo, which is the the fighter lead in track on the Harbor 2.
Andrew:I remember just going out and flying these high g missions twice a day and just being exhausted from all the g's. So two parts is one memorizing all the, items and and then the second part is just getting used to the high g environment as you kind of track fighters.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. I can only imagine that that second half because I know anytime you do a mission where you're, you know, doing a bunch of arrows or whatever, like, even the limited stuff I I did on phase two, it is tiring for sure. And like doing two a days is tiring even without a bunch of high G stuff. And especially as you're trying to learn, like you're absorbing so much along the way.
Bryan:Yeah. That memorization stuff is really, really tough.
Andrew:Yeah. For sure.
Bryan:When they first give it to you and you're like, I gotta know all this. Yeah. Like, I I remember, you know, even just from like, they want you to be able to, you know, preflight the plane without referring to the checklist and all those checks on the ground and you're making up all these little things in your head that like mnemonics to help you remember the different stages and
Andrew:Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. That's tough for sure. It's definitely a completely different world from like when you go get your private pilot's license.
Andrew:Yeah. And I would say the civilian sector... I mean, I have, the private license. I have an airline licenses now, airline pilot license in Canada and US. But what I'd say the difference is they...
Andrew:The civilian sector, from my experience, they actually kind of discourage memorizing and encourage, you know, reading through the checklist line by line so you don't miss things. So Mhmm. In that in that instance, I think there's a quite a quite a, difference between the two flying cells.
Bryan:Yeah. I mean, it's totally different philosophies, right? Like... And different objectives. Like, everybody's pursuing safety of flight but there's also, you know, a sense of urgency, right, with military flying that isn't necessarily there with civilian flying for good reason.
Bryan:Right? So it's it's different goals and different comfort levels with risk, I think.
Andrew:Yeah. For sure.
Bryan:So was there at any point... Like, you're at Moose Jaw doing your phase two, phase two bravo. Was there a point where you had a flight or an instructor that changed the way you approached training, like a wake up moment at all?
Andrew:Yeah. So, I think this was still on two alpha. I was doing... We did instrument sortio to Swift Current for instrument approach and then came back to Moose Jaw for the high TACAN.
Bryan:And just for the listeners, TACAN stands for tactical air navigation and is a military only form of radio navigation. And it's also used for instrument approaches and a high tachin is just a form of higher altitude tachin approach.
Andrew:13 or 31, whatever the runway I think is 31. What is the Moose Jaw Runways?
Bryan:Oh, gosh. Don't remember.
Andrew:2 maybe? Yeah. I think it's 29 and 11.
Bryan:I think you're right.
Andrew:Anyways, we're doing we're doing the high-tech end two nine and I had a Danish instructor, Carlsson was red And, it was... I was under the hood at the time and so, you know, flying everything off the instruments. And I forgot to set my altimeter from two nine nine two to the local altimeter setting. Oh, yeah. And at that mission, there was quite a bit of a discrepancy, and in an unsafe manner.
Andrew:So he let me fly the whole high-tech and all the way down to what I thought were minimums. And then... But it was... So I thought I was down to 400 feet. In reality, when I called dead minimums, I was actually like a 120 feet.
Andrew:Oh, wow. Or... So he let me fly all the way down and then he said, okay, take off the hood. And he had the aircraft. I took off the hood and I was like, oh my goodness.
Andrew:I am so close to the ground. And it was really scary. And he said, like, aren't you married? And I'm like, yeah. He's like, don't you wanna, like, be married a long time kind of thing?
Andrew:So I'll never forget that. And, you know, like, I don't even know if you you could do that. You probably could. You you... I don't think you could do that here in Texas.
Andrew:Maybe you'd have to cancel and and do some interesting instruction. But, I'm so glad he did that because I'll never forget that. It's just that shock value of, you know, doing your checks. There... There's there for a reason, not skipping things either could be fatal.
Andrew:And that, you know, taking off the hood and seeing how low I was, I'll never forget that. So that was just a really neat moment for Moose Shah and and I have actually never forgot it since. So, pretty valuable lesson.
Bryan:Yeah. And I just want to explain a couple of things for listeners who might not have familiarity with flying as much as we have. So basically what Hasno is saying is he... On the way down through a certain altitude, you switch your altimeter setting, which basically adjusts from like a standard pressure setting to whatever the air pressure is where you're gonna land. And if you don't do that, your altimeter that tells you how high you are is not gonna read accurately.
Bryan:So if it's in one direction, you'll be too high, which is not ideal in case you need to get down through weather minimums. But if it's the other direction, it's... Can be very unsafe because as he said, in this case, you end up, you know, potentially hundreds of feet lower than you think you are. So the other thing I wanted to emphasize is that he mentioned being under the hood. It's like literally a plastic hood thing that goes on your head so you can't see outside.
Bryan:So his instructor could see the whole time. Like, this wasn't an unsafe thing because his instructor was able to see outside and monitor and, you know, make sure they were clear of obstacles and all that stuff. But that must have been like a crazy wake up moment. I think the best instructors are the ones who can give you exactly enough rope to hang yourself, we used to say.
Andrew:Don't know
Bryan:if they still use that expression. But exactly enough rope and then stop you.
Andrew:Yeah. And I will point out, like, at some point on the approach, he did cancel IFR because it was VMC, so there's there's no cloud. So he did cancel IFR. At the time, I kind of thought that was weird. And then after the fact, I'm like, oh, this is what he was doing.
Andrew:He was canceling IFR to allow the lesson to play out safely
Bryan:Yep.
Andrew:So that I'll never forget it.
Bryan:Yeah. Because otherwise, you guys would have been below minimums while IFR... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. So we've established very clearly that you were jets all the way. Like, you joined, it's gonna be jets, it's gonna be the f 18. So, you know, the first step is you get selected to fly the hawk on phase three. What was that like?
Andrew:Yeah. And, you know, I'm glad you asked that question because I don't even remember. And you think this would be a big moment in my life finding out when you... What you've been selected for. Brian, you probably remember what it was like for you when you found out what you were selected for.
Andrew:I don't remember because... And again, to go back to, like, the overconfidence thing, like, in my mind, when I read the Moose Jaw, I was arriving to go fighters. Yeah. And so I don't actually remember being told I was going fighters because I like.
Bryan:You were like, of course.
Andrew:Well, yeah. And like, that's the overconfidence piece of like, yeah, I'm going fighters, like, of course. And so I don't even remember. I remember a lot of things about flight training, like the example of the lesson on the instrument approach. So...
Andrew:But I don't even remember being told. I remember going back as a dragonflight commander and telling students, you know, they're going fighters or they're not. I can remember all those things. But for myself, I just don't know how that happened. I don't know what was the way.
Bryan:What was it like to get on the Hawk for you? Like, you know, this is your first jet, right?
Andrew:Yeah. The Hawk was a big jump. And I thought at that moment, I felt, you know, arriving in Moosha, I felt part of the RCF family. Going on the Hawk, I very much felt part of the fighter family at that point. And I remember the cockpit being small, I'm a pretty big guy.
Andrew:I had to squeeze into that thing every day. I remember the cockpit being small, but I remember just the HUD, you know, just being like, I felt so much easier to get all the information, like, fast. And the roll rate being so much quicker and the speed, remember just being like, okay, this is a big jump. I need to think a lot faster. I need to be really careful, but I'm also now part of this new family.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. Like, was it tricky at first? Because I know every time I've flown something faster, at least the first flight, you're like, holy crap, I'm already finished my downwind. Like, I haven't even done my checks.
Andrew:Yeah. Yes. Yes. So the first few flights, we used say we're water skiing and I'm not sure if that that translate... And that expression doesn't really...
Andrew:Doesn't work down in Texas, water skiing, but in Moose Jaw, like, I I was behind the aircraft. No water skiing behind it. So for the first... I think you do nine flights and then you solo. By the time I was soloing, I was safe, you know, to take it by myself, obviously.
Andrew:But I remember at first, I had one, two, three flights. I'm like, holy moly. I will never get ahead of this thing. But...
Bryan:Yeah. So you get on the hawk. And my understanding is basically, you finish hawk training and you find out either you're gonna instruct on the hawk or you're going hornets. Is that right? Yes.
Bryan:Did you have any... Were you like nervous? Like, oh man, what if they want me to instruct? Or were you just like good with whatever?
Andrew:Yeah. And again, like, this is so weird. I was not nervous because I was like, of course, I'm not gonna instruct and I don't know where that comes from. But Yeah. It's like I'm going fighters.
Andrew:So Yeah. I think it was almost contagious. I don't know if that impacted the decision makers, but I was like, no, that's not a thing. So...
Bryan:So the next step is 04/19, right? Which is still the Hawk.
Andrew:Is that right? Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. So what was that like?
Andrew:So, you know, I thought I was part of the fighter community, flying the Hawk in Moose Jaw. And then you arrive at, in Cold Lake with fighters taking off, like actual f eighteens, and you're doing fighter tactics. And then I'm like, okay. I think I'm now... This is actually part of the fighter community because everything here is fighters.
Andrew:We're doing fighter tactics. And I remember that course being, like, so much more fun Mhmm. And less and less pedantic, more like mission focused. Like Yeah. All the all the training was, you know, everything after takeoff and landing that was assumed, and all the new work was everything other than takeoff and landing.
Andrew:So, yeah, you just... I think your confidence rose and then you just were again so excited to be there finally in Cold Lake. You know, in my case, I had spent more than a decade since the Hornets were flying over elementary school. Now, I'm finally back here, with a uniform on the line and I'm like, this is a dream finally arriving after so much work. It just felt, yeah, really great.
Bryan:That's awesome. At the time, you guys got your wings at 04:19. Is that right?
Andrew:No. The wings were on the Hawk.
Bryan:Oh, right. Sorry. Because now they get wings... Oh gee, it's changed a lot, right? Because at one point I think they were getting wings after phase two bravo?
Andrew:Yeah. That... I mean, so for me, I would... Phase two bravo and then phase three on the Hawk.
Bryan:And then you get your wings.
Andrew:And then you went to Moose... Or then you went to Cold Lake and with... As a wing pilot. But I think now... I mean, obviously, I think even before the Hawk was shut down, they get the wings on the harbor too prior to
Bryan:the Hawk. Mhmm. So you finished at 04:19. Any big learning moments or struggles at that point? Or was it all coming fairly smooth for you?
Andrew:I remember not doing as well at four nineteen as I did, The Hawk and Moose Shah. There... You know, the high g fighting, nonstop took some getting used to. Yeah. So, mean, there was a whole bunch of...
Andrew:Or there was some struggles. I just can't... Nothing comes to mind right now other than, like, it's very tactical, very operational, way more challenging.
Bryan:What was it like after... You know, you had kind of this whole time, you've you've mentioned the word overconfident a few times. What was it like to start running up against some resistance and to meet some challenge? Like, did that Yeah. Did that require some mental...
Bryan:To jump some hurdles, or or what was that like for you?
Andrew:So I think I kind of, you know, was put in my place or found my place, you know, at four nineteen Squadron. I I was not overconfident after that. I think that was the end of overconfidence. I felt like, you know, it was kinda average through 04/19, average through 04/10. And, you know, so I think that...
Andrew:Yeah. I think I felt like just, okay. It's time to work. Be grateful for being here. And that was...
Andrew:You know, nothing's for sure. That was kind of the end of the assumed assumed career for me.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. Which is good. Right? Like, everybody needs to get that moment where...
Bryan:Because pilots tend to be a fairly confident bunch, especially if you actually end up making it. Yeah. And it is, you know, good for you at some point to have that checked and to realize like, oh, I have my limits. Like, I imagine judging by how we've spoken, like, you're probably doing quite well. Like, did you top courses and that kind of thing?
Andrew:So I topped the courses in Moose Jaw. But then when I got to Cole Lake, I feel like I became average at that point.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. Well, then you're you're going up a level too. Right?
Andrew:Yeah. Yeah. And everybody... I mean...
Bryan:You find your kind of... You find your level as you move up and up.
Andrew:For sure. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. And and and I think like people who tend to top their courses, like that confidence surges and you haven't met a ton of resistance necessarily. But then finally, do hit that... Whatever that moment is and you realize like, oh, this is gonna get hard.
Bryan:Like, I am gonna have to work pretty hard and there... This is not a guarantee. Like, I'm gonna have to earn this.
Andrew:Yeah. That's exactly it, Brian. You nailed it there. That's exactly what came from my thoughts pattern. It's like, oh, I better go to work here now.
Bryan:Mhmm. Mhmm. So you've done four nineteen, next is four ten, and you're finally on the Hornet. Do you remember your first flight in the Hornet?
Andrew:Yes. I do remember I was flying with a psycho, which is called Steinhardt Clark. And I remember, you know, it took me a long time to start it, again, the checks and stuff. So he was patient with me to get the thing started. And then you have to do all the checks on the taxi out to the runway.
Andrew:You know, this is Runway 31 now in Cold Lake. Remember trying to struggle through all those checks, and then then finally getting airborne and being like, okay. All those checks are over with now. And, I remember thinking, okay. This is...
Andrew:No. This is different. This is an operational aircraft. This thing... The thrust is different.
Andrew:The visibility is different. The cockpit is old, you know, at that point. But it felt just like, it flew so easy. Like, it was auto trimming. The visibility is incredible, but just the power, I'm like, oh, you better respect this thing.
Andrew:So I remember just being kinda wowed and the awe of the first first mission.
Bryan:Yeah. One thing that I hear over and over again from Hornet pilots is that it's like an amazing aircraft in terms of flying. Like, easy to fly, which is good because, of course, it's like the... You're there... You're not there to fly.
Bryan:You're there to complete a mission. Right? And, like, that's the real learning curve is like operating all the equipment and displays and software and weapons and all those different things.
Andrew:Yeah. And I went... Last year, went back to Cold Lake to be a grad speaker and I flew a couple times in the Hornet again after flying, you know, the Hawk and now the Talon. And then flying the Hornet, I was just... The biggest thing I was amazed with is just how easy it was Mhmm.
Andrew:To fly. Like, I feel like, you know, flying the Talon, I'm... It's... I'm constantly struggling and trimming and, you know, beating the aircraft into submission almost. And the Hornet, it was just like, go back and it's like, wow.
Andrew:This is so easy, to fly. Yeah. You know, all the systems and stuff are are so complicated, but the flying part of it was like, wow. This is just so great. What a pleasure.
Bryan:Yeah. It it... I mean, there's a reason the Hornet has been around as long as it... As has been. I mean, in Canada, of course, it's because we're famous for getting the most out of our aircraft, let's say.
Bryan:But in in different iterations, right, like the Super Hornet is still out there and in in multiple configurations and stuff, like there's a reason that aircraft has been around for decades.
Andrew:Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
Bryan:So you were posted to four twenty five Squadron in Baggettville in 2009. What was the biggest adjustment going from the training system to an operational fighter squadron?
Andrew:I think after arriving in Quebec, you know, out of the train system system now, it was... The the contrast was... I felt like I'm finally expected to be an adult kind of at this point, you know. Mhmm. I'm finally expected that I have to contribute to the RCF after drawing for so much.
Andrew:So that was a big jump for me. You know, you no longer have instructors per se. I mean, when I arrived in the Vagabole, I was doing the combat. I already upgrade pretty quick. So you have colleagues who are teaching you, but there's no more instructors, nobody showing you kind of anymore.
Andrew:You're expected to read yourself, prepare yourself. You're a professional now. So that was the big difference is just like you now... It was pretty clear that you're contributing now. So that was the big jump.
Bryan:Yeah. There's no more hand holding. Right? Like, now it's like, hey, welcome. Here's the aircraft.
Bryan:Here's the upgrade package. This is what you're expected to do over the next couple years. Go do it. Yeah.
Andrew:And then, you know, you
Bryan:have some mentorship going on. But it's definitely a totally different process from being like, you're so used to a structured course. Like, here's every step, here's every flight you're gonna do and and now it's not like that.
Andrew:Yeah. And then once you start flying and these operational missions come up, you know, flying here, going there, and you do the flight planning by yourself, it's... Yeah. It's it's very clear that, yeah, you're no longer on a formal training system. You're kinda making it happen at that point.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. Did did your wife and you speak French at the time?
Andrew:So my wife, took French in high school. She was bilingual, graduated with a bilingual diploma. So she was doing all the grocery shopping and doing all the ordering and everything, I just kinda went to work. So growing up in Northern Saskatchewan, I didn't speak much French at that point. So...
Bryan:Did you end up learning French?
Andrew:Yeah. I end up, getting a a BBB profile, through... Actually, it's interesting. I did most of my French probably learning in Texas. Oh, really?...
Andrew:Able to do, half a day online training for a year or so and was able to get my profile up.
Bryan:So you're a baby f 18 pilot. I feel like every stage of pilot training is like, okay. Now I know what I'm doing. And then you get to the next stage and you're like, oh, I don't know what I'm doing. So you're a new pilot on squadron.
Bryan:What was that like to kind of become useful to the squadron? How long did that take and how did that feel?
Andrew:Yeah. I think it's... You're... You know, like you say, it's pretty clear that you're the least useful person around when you first show up because Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew:You don't have all these qualifications that need. You kinda start over at the bottom. You know, you're not combat ready. You're not element lead ready. You're not slug qualified, you know, force of lead.
Andrew:So you just gotta start working again. And so you kinda... I felt like you just gotta shut up in color for a while. You know? And so just go to the vault and read and, you know, try and learn from others and contribute where you can in in the QRA, the quick reaction alert, missions, and you just kinda be a a student.
Andrew:That was kinda my approach anyways, which is to learn from others, keep my head down, and get upgraded.
Bryan:Did you, with the QRA, did you ever do any NATO intercepts, like on a bear or anything like that?
Andrew:So, yes. And then... But more of that was kinda afterwards when I went to four zero nine Squadron. We did some stuff up north in Inuvik. Yeah.
Bryan:I think your first operational missions were supporting the g eight summit in Toronto. Is that right?
Andrew:Correct. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. So what was the role there and how did that experience compare with the training you had done to get ready for it?
Andrew:Yeah. So a lot of that, was about day and night. So we're doing day and night, you know, combat air patrol over top of Toronto with tankers and stuff and and trying to, you know, scare away civilian flights or watch for other aircraft that are entering their, area of responsibility and just trying to keep the area sanitized for all the leaders, that were having meetings. And then the nighttime mission was the same, but, you know, nighttime mission was quieter. So, you know, not a lot's much going on, maybe a boring...
Andrew:More boring mission, but you still had to kinda stay awake and and get gas and all the rest of it. But, yeah, that's when it became apparent that, okay, now I'm contributing to Canada and beyond. I'm now contributing to GA, NATO, our partners. I'm providing value, even though, we're providing protection for world leaders. I remember thinking this is...
Andrew:Okay. This is important now. Mhmm.
Bryan:So kind of your next big operational experience was deploying to Libya in 2011. You deployed on the first roto. How did you find out you were going, and what do you remember about the training to get ready to go?
Andrew:Yeah. So our operations officer, for two weeks prior to deploying along with the commander, were preparing the jets, stacking up maintenance. I remember there being way less jets available because they were, you know, doing a bunch of... They called it an exercise to, you know, do a bunch of maintenance on the aircraft and practice loading AMRAAMs and stuff like that. I remember not thinking much of it.
Bryan:Andrew mentions AMRAAMs. That is an AIM one twenty AMRAAM or advanced medium range air to air missile.
Andrew:After the fact, they knew that, you know, Libya was coming, and so they're preparing the jets for deployment without telling the rest of us. And then the night before, or we got like a a forty eight hour notice from the commander. Oh, wow. But didn't really didn't really think much of that. And then it very quickly became twenty four hours and and then, less.
Andrew:And I remember being at the squadron, forty five squadron in Beggaville. We were in the vault, I think, when the, you know, UN announced the resolution nineteen seventy three, the no fly zone over Libya. And at the squadron, I remember being there with my squadron mates and then the OPSO and the commander, you know, selected a team that they had already pre picked for the the Roto Zero to deploy, and they told us, k, guys, go home and sleep, and we'll see in the morning. We leave in the morning. And I remember this being, like, so short, you know, like, it was, I think, 06:30 or 7PM, and they said, you know, keep it back at be back at 7AM.
Andrew:We're gonna fly to Europe. Oh my gosh. Okay. I don't feel ready for this, but I'll do my best. And so that's, so that's that's how we knew.
Andrew:Like, this forty eight hours became twenty four hour notice in less than twelve hours, and then it very quickly became we're leaving in the morning. So the timelines are very truncated.
Bryan:Yeah. And I guess, that also answers my question about lead up training that there there... It was just the training you'd received as a natural course of becoming a a fighter pilot, right? Like, there's obviously no training leading up to a tour that you had seven hours notice for or whatever it was.
Andrew:So we were the the vanguard squadron, so we had to be ready at all times. So our Right. Gas training was complete, our handgun training and all their deployment stuff. We were just ready to do... Always ready because it was our it was our time.
Andrew:Interesting, though, after they told us, hey, go home and see you in the morning, they said, oh, by the way, pick up, some tan flight suits. We're going to the desert. So your green your green green flight suits aren't gonna cut it. So I went over to the base, supply at, like, 7PM, and we had to call in, the workers, the corporals, whoever were handing out supply, and he had to call them in to start issuing a flight suit and boots and stuff like that. And a funny story, I remember I have size thirteen feet, big feet.
Andrew:So they... I went in there to look for boots. And this member said, oh, we have one of your size here, but it's the display boot. So we're gonna have to order it in. You know, we have to keep this on display, this boot.
Andrew:So we'll order it in, you know, and in four to six weeks, we'll get your boots. And and I had had them on my feet after trying them on. I'm like, Eddie's worked great. He's like, okay. Take them off.
Andrew:We'll order in some boots. And I just said, well, like, I'm not removing these boots. I'm gonna leave and go home now. Yeah. So if you have a problem, you can, you know, talk to the wing commander who or who else.
Andrew:But I was told to get boots, and I'm taking these. And so he was kind of, like, upset with me, but I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. So I left with my boots on and had a flight suit. And when I went home, I got home maybe at 08:30 and my wife, we had a newborn. She was...
Andrew:My daughter, Sasha, was 10 old. And my wife met me at the door and I was wearing these tan boots and tan flight suit. And I came to door and the first thing she said to me is, where are you going? And I said, I don't really know, but, the desert. And she's like, when do leave?
Andrew:And I said, tomorrow morning. And then she's like, okay. And, my daughter was sick that night. She ended up being like awake, like, all night. Well, everybody was awake all night.
Andrew:Of course, you're not gonna sleep before you go. But in the morning, you know, I said, see you later. Nobody slept. Have a good day. And my wife went to the hospital with my daughter, and I went to forty five Squadron.
Andrew:Wow. Briefed by the commander, General Blondin, had flown in, and she... He had briefed us on the mission. It was a blizzard snowstorm, you know, officially 200 and a half. I think it was maybe a little bit less than that so we can get out of there.
Andrew:And a member of the general briefing us and then we took off in a snowstorm. And my wife was at the hospital in Vagabole, waiting for the doctor and on the... All the TV screens in the waiting room was us taking off in this snowstorm. And, she's, you know, had to really... It was just a really incredible experience for her to try and compose herself, you know, the unknown of me flying off somewhere with her daughter, alone with her daughter at the hospital.
Andrew:But that's kind of that's kind of, I think, military service. You have these unknowns and these kind of really unique experiences that you you have to become very resilient for. Mhmm. So then we we took off and, we hit the tanker off the the coast of Newfoundland and then just kept flying throughout the night. You know, it was...
Andrew:I remember it being dark over the Atlantic and seeing icebergs below and trying not to screw up my tanker wall so that I wouldn't have to divert into Iceland or Norway or... Our diverts were, I think, Reykjavik and stuff like that. Place I've never been to.
Bryan:So I
Andrew:mentioned, like... And I didn't feel, like, overly prepared at this point. So I really didn't wanna have to go by myself and shoot an eyeless approach into Reykjavik at night on the For sure. Because I broke the probe off or something like that. So...
Andrew:But I got all the gas and didn't break anything, and then arrived into Scotland, that night. We... The the boss told us to kind of prep the jets. We were gonna take off again. And...
Andrew:But the tanker, was... Had a crew time and the rest, so we ended up staying over overnight in Scotland one night. And the next morning, we took off, kind of unaware of where we were going to, but we're just kind of direction Italy. And we tanked over the, we did air d'airfieling over the, Strait, and then got... Had to fly around Switzerland because we had a whole bunch of armed hornets and they wouldn't let us fly through the airspace.
Andrew:And then eventually, destination was Trapani and we landed in Trapani and the base was, at that point, wasn't really aware that, we were coming. Like the Diplo clearances, they were working en route, but they never made it past Rome to the Oh, yeah. The commander. Classic. So when we landed...
Andrew:Yeah. When we landed in Trapani, we just parked the jets, like, off the runway in... Like, on the taxiway or wherever. We went to the wing commander's office and he said, why are these Canadians here? And so, you know, we said, well, we're here.
Andrew:We're Canadians. We're here. We're gonna be bombing Libya from from Italy, or we're gonna stay here. And so he eventually called back to Rome and found out that this... You know, that we were approved to be there, and the diplos just hadn't made it from Rome to Drapani, I'm assuming.
Andrew:And then, we got busy flight planning and getting hotels and cars and trying to figure out how to do this mission with no secure comms or support. It was just, you know, six, seven pilots or eight pilots, whatever it was, just with Hornets. And the bombs arrived, I think, the next day. A bunch of c seventeens arrived full of air crew... Or not air crew, like technicians, armorers, the rest with bombs and stuff, and we just got at it.
Andrew:It was just a flurry of activity.
Bryan:Wow. Man, that's crazy. That that must have been such a tough way to leave home. Like, that just really fast notice, you know, come home, your wife sees you with a tan flight suit, your daughter is sick. That's your firstborn, right?
Andrew:That's right. Yeah. She's 16 So
Bryan:like, you know, infant firstborn, which is always like a, you know, every every new parent, every time they're sick or whatever, it's a whole different thing. Right? Like, that's stressful and it's unto its own self. And then, like, your wife taking your daughter to the hospital as you're leaving, that must have been super stressful. Like, how did you both get through that?
Andrew:Well, I was, like, just dialed into the mission. So I, you know, I actually don't remember thinking about, that a lot because I didn't really have any mental capacity for anything other than the mission at that moment.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Andrew:So I was... I didn't really... Wasn't really thinking about my daughter and wife en route to, Italy. My wife, you know, at the hospital, we're... She remembered...
Andrew:She just had to... Like, we're a spiritual family, so she just had to pray and just give it all up to God, and and otherwise, it would just crush her. Right? So...
Bryan:Boy. Yeah. I can only imagine because my my first tour, I remember leaving. It was a month after Melissa and I got married. And we didn't have kids, and that was still super hard.
Bryan:Like... And they... For some reason, they decided it was a good idea to bring all the families in to say goodbye as we left, like, at the base. So they're in a room of, like, weeping wives and children basically, and she's trying to keep it together. And there's news cameras and general Blondell was actually there as well for that.
Bryan:And it was it was pretty crazy. Yeah. I just I just wanted to clarify for listeners who, you know, are hearing Hasno say that, oh, I I wasn't thinking about my my wife and daughter. That's normal because you have to be dialed in. Like, you learn as you go through flight training and you go through operational training.
Bryan:Like, you can't be starting up a jet and thinking about family issues or anything besides what you're doing. You're in a fighter jet. Like, you can't you can't be thinking about anything but the mission and flying and staying safe.
Andrew:Yeah. And, something that was taught to me is compartmentalization, something we still teach, and I think that was really important that, you know, when you're flying, you're, you know, sanitized in your focus box. And you... Yeah. You just can't allow other things to enter.
Andrew:I felt like, anyways, at that point, it was it was just... There's too many... The stakes were too high Mhmm. To be distracted. And I think that's probably the best way I could handle the situation.
Andrew:And for my wife and daughter, was just to be the most safe. And I think the most safe at that moment was just to have pure focus.
Bryan:Yeah. I totally agree. Okay, Andrew. That is going to wrap up part one of our conversation today. It was great to hear about kind of your training, your road up to your first deployment.
Bryan:In part two, we're going to go through that in detail. I'm really excited to get to that and all the other stuff with Flit. Thank you so much for joining us today, and I will talk to you soon.
Andrew:Thanks for having me, Brad. All
Bryan:right. Okay. That's gonna wrap up part one of our chat with Lieutenant Colonel Andrew Hasnofaith. In the next episode, tune in as we talk in detail about his tours in Libya and supporting the mission in Iraq against ISIS. We'll also touch on his time instructing on FLT or the fighter lead in course as part of a broader theme as we explore FLT over the next couple episodes.
Bryan:Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show? Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show? You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or on all social media at at pod pilot project. And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and Mission Aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three.
Bryan:That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you.